Apologies to Basa, jigga, and others... the other post was getting full, so I figured I'd start a new one for its release for people to give their feedback.

And for what I feel is a reasonable review from a man who's always given Spike a fair shot, here's Roger Ebert.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080925/REVIEWS/809250306

Miracle at St. Anna
/ / / September 25, 2008

By Roger Ebert

Spike Lee's "Miracle at St. Anna" contains scenes of brilliance, interrupted by scenes that meander. There is too much, too many characters, too many subplots. But there is so much here that is powerful that it should be seen no matter its imperfections. There are scenes that could have been lost to more decisive editing, but I found after a few days that my mind did the editing for me, and I was left with lasting impressions.

The story involves four African-American soldiers behind enemy lines in Italy in World War II. It's a story that needs telling. It begins with an old black man looking at an old John Wayne movie on TV, and murmuring, "We fought that war, too." The next day, he goes to work at the post office and does something that startles us. The movie will eventually explain who he is and why he did it. But in a way we don't need that opening scene, and we especially don't need the closing scene, not the way it plays, when a man walks slowly toward a seated man on a beach. The problem is, the wrong man is doing the walking.

You may disagree. There is one "extraneous" scene that is absolutely essential. While in the Deep South for basic training, the four soldiers are refused service in a local restaurant, while four German POWs relax comfortably in a booth. Such treatment was not uncommon. Why should blacks risk their lives for whites who hate them? The characters argue about this during the movie, after boneheaded decisions and racist insults from a white officer. One has the answer: He's doing it for his country, for his children and grandchildren, and because of his faith in the future. The others are doing it more because of loyalty to their comrades in arms, which is what all wars finally come down to during battle.

"Miracle at St. Anna" has one of the best battle scenes I can remember, on a par with "Saving Private Ryan" but more tightly focused in a specific situation rather than encompassing a huge panorama. The four soldiers find themselves standing in a river, with a Nazi loudspeaker blasting the sultry voice of "Axis Sally," who promises them sexy women and racial equality in Germany. Their white superior officer orders artillery strikes on their position because he can't believe any blacks could have possibly have advanced so far. Then the Nazis open fire. The visceral impact of the episode is astonishing.

The four who survive find themselves in a small hill village. They are Stamps (Derek Luke), cool and collected; Cummings (Michael Ealy), a skirt-chaser; Negron (Laz Alonso), a Puerto Rican, and Train (Omar Benson Miller), a towering man with the gentle simplicity of a child. Train has picked up the head of a statue from Florence and carries it with him because he believes that dubbing it makes him invulnerable.

Among the Italians they meet are three important ones: Angelo (Matteo Sciabordi), a young boy who Train saves from death; Renata (Valentina Cervi), a daring and attractive village woman, and Peppi (Pierfrancesco Favino), known as the Great Butterfly, who is a leader of the region's anti-Nazi partisans. All the characters and all the villagers are involved in another battle scene fought in the village's steep pathways and steps. Both fire fights are choreographed with immediate visceral effect.

The story of the bond between Train and the boy Angelo seems like material for a different movie. Yes, it involved me, but it seemed to exist on the plane of parable, not realism. It involves a shift of the emotions away from the surrounding action. The acting is superb. Omar Benson Miller (not actually as tall as the movie makes him seem) feels responsible for the boy because he saved his life, and the two form a bond across the language barrier. Matteo Sciabordi, in his first performance, is a natural the camera loves. I can imagine an entire feature based on these two, but I am not sure this story, seen this way, could have taken place in the reality of this film.

Another scene I doubted is an extended one involving a dance in the local church, with music playing loudly, GIs standing illuminated in an open doorway, just as if they weren't behind enemy lines and the hills weren't possibly crawling with Nazis. The romantic developments during that scene would have seemed more at home in a musical.

In a sense, the scenes I complain about are evidence of Lee's stature as an artist. In a time of studios and many filmmakers who play it safe and right down the middle, Lee has a vision and sticks to it. The scenes I object to are not evidence of any special perception I have. They're the kind of scenes many studio chiefs from the dawn of film might have singled out, in the interest of making the film shorter and faster. But they're important to Lee, who must have defended them. And it's important to me that he did. When you see one of his films, you're seeing one of his films. And "Miracle at St. Anna" contains richness, anger, history, sentiment, fantasy, reality, violence and life. Maybe too much. Better than too little.

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the king of pullnopunches?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95010037


A 'Miracle' That's Somewhat Less Than Wondrous


All Things Considered, September 26, 2008 · Let's start by agreeing that Spike Lee was in large part right when he criticized Clint Eastwood's Iwo Jima films for doing what American war movies have done for decades — leaving black soldiers out of the story.

Hollywood has made very little effort to explore the contributions of African-American soldiers in World War II. And if segregation in that era's armed forces provides Tinseltown with an excuse, it is long past time for a remedy.

So a movie about the exploits of the all-black 92nd Infantry Division, which landed in Italy in 1944, would seem to be just the ticket. But Lee's adaptation of the novel Miracle at St. Anna, inspired by the exploits of the 92nd, proves problematic.

It tells of a unit caught behind enemy lines; their white American commander, refusing to believe they've made the progress against enemy troops they say they have, shells their position. The result is a bloodbath that leaves a river running red with the blood of perhaps a dozen black soldiers.

For Lee, somehow, this sets up a story that almost immediately lurches into moments of broad comedy and even broader sentiment.

Most of the latter involve a big, superstitious soldier named Train (Omar Benson Miller) and a shell-shocked Italian boy (Matteo Sciabordi) he befriends. When the boy starts calling his protector a "chocolate giant" — he even licks Train to see if he tastes like cocoa — well, at that point the director's headed into territory so precious it's hard to find a way back to the film's more serious themes.

Some of those themes are familiar from Lee's other films, while others — the suggestion, for instance, that the Nazis appreciated the capabilities of these black troops more than their white commanders did — are freshly provocative.

But nearly all the film's thematic points get scattered as screenwriter James McBride, adapting his own novel, lets the story drift off in six directions at once, filling the screen with stereotyped German creeps and peppy Italian resistance fighters, a love triangle involving two American soldiers and an Italian siren (Derek Luke, Michael Ealy and Valentina Cervi), two dueling sets of religious superstitions and one magical resurrection.

There's also an '80s murder mystery that bookends the rest of the story (with cameos by John Turturro, John Leguizamo and Joseph Gordon-Levitt), and a flashback within the film's central flashback to show us the discrimination faced by the soldiers in America. All that, plus an overwrought, tear-stained epilogue.

Even in a film that clocks in at a quasi-epic 2 hours and 40 minutes, that's just too much narrative. And matters aren't helped by the fact that Lee, who has never staged battle sequences before, hasn't quite got the rhythms or camera angles right.

There aren't actually that many battles in Miracle at St. Anna, as it happens, but when they do crop up, the explosions seem to come out of nowhere — a little like that miracle the title refers to — leaving the audience as disoriented as the soldiers, and a good deal less engaged.

as it didnt overly compare spikes other films to this one and talking moreso about the story itself (and thumbs up on speaking on james mcbride).

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http://twitter.com/malael

>There aren't actually that many battles in Miracle at St.
>Anna, as it happens, but when they do crop up, the explosions
>seem to come out of nowhere — a little like that miracle the
>title refers to — leaving the audience as disoriented as the
>soldiers, and a good deal less engaged.

Is he really complaining about explosions that come out of nowhere in a war movie?

As if the enemy is supposed to warn them that, "HEY WE'RE BOUT TO DROP A BOMB RIGHT OVER YONDER! BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR IT OKAY?"

Cmon

at a trajectory, I think he's saying Lee doesn't establish the logistics of the battlefield at all. That it looks more like a 40's war b-movie than modern war films which go to great lengths to set up and establish the battlefield.

_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

This is could be something of a problem, considering the importance of location (you've got to know they're on the other side of the river, and getting bombed). Not establishing who is where hurts the film when they cross the river, because you're disoriented.
That being said, I didn't think it was that bad. I kinda liked the fighting jumping all over the place. I'm not watching a film wondering which way the bomb is coming from. But then again, I'm not much of a war movie fan.

"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

If Ebert had shit all over this movie like some of the others, I would've been disheartened.

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http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050505/REVIEWS/50502001/1023

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040806/REVIEWS/408060304/1023

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

- Dub

I give rappers the biz for being m-izza-a-archaic.

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________________________________________________________________________
"I want to be done playing this lady Nov. 5..." - Tina Fey

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

and i think it's a solid 3 star movie. i applaud what spike tried to do w/ it and believe it was cool.

some moments like the opening battle scene did seem disoriented (funny seeing omar being scared) but i think that that was a way to let you know how they felt. it was random as hell, seemingly uneasy and i believe those 4 soldiers were in the same pot. the "experiment" black company.

i do think the love-line-triangle was a little too overdone. when Michael Ealy's character (Bishop) fucks w/ shorty and Derek Luke (Stamps) finds out, i really didn't care or feel that there was "heart break" w/ the situation. like, as a viewer why do i care? you just heard that the german soldier was compromised etc. and you worrying about pussy?? that kinda bothered me.

and i did get irritated w/ the southern accent of Train at first (feeling the "YES JESUS!" stuff was a little overdone. but maybe that's my southern bias being from south carolina i get irritated when people try to force a stereotypical southern accent...i.e. 'true blood').

but overall the movie was cool, but i would've like to have heard more about the kid, more about the case instead of it being him in court one day and then BOOM he's out chillin' etc. i was left wanting to know more.

and the way the kid found the newspaper falling out of a window seemed quite corny. i think the superstitious stuff could have been done better.

but other than that, i feel it was a noble effort and i may see it again.

oh and i do think hector's (laz alonso)acting was great.

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>i do think the love-line-triangle was a little too overdone.
>when Michael Ealy's character (Bishop) fucks w/ shorty and
>Derek Luke (Stamps) finds out, i really didn't care or feel
>that there was "heart break" w/ the situation. like, as a
>viewer why do i care? you just heard that the german soldier
>was compromised etc. and you worrying about pussy?? that kinda
>bothered me.
>

i don't think it was overdone...that shit happens..even in war these kids are human...like he said he felt free, and it was odd that it was in another country...i think that was brilliant and went well with the love triangle...he was so free, he got lost in the city and was falling for the chick...rather than Bishop who was just looking for pussy cause that's all he really does...Stamps was just mad it was done in a sneaky way, but at the end of the day it was just pussy...but that shit still happens now, dudes fighting over pussy..*shrugs* i liked that part of the story

>and i did get irritated w/ the southern accent of Train at
>first (feeling the "YES JESUS!" stuff was a little overdone.
>but maybe that's my southern bias being from south carolina i
>get irritated when people try to force a stereotypical
>southern accent...i.e. 'true blood').
>

i don't think they were doing a bad job of his accent, he was supposed to be a slow guy who happend to be southern....


>but overall the movie was cool, but i would've like to have
>heard more about the kid, more about the case instead of it
>being him in court one day and then BOOM he's out chillin'
>etc. i was left wanting to know more.
>

that was odd too..but the movie was so long if they showed more court scenes we would've been in that movie for even longer


>and the way the kid found the newspaper falling out of a
>window seemed quite corny. i think the superstitious stuff
>could have been done better.
>

that was odd too...i wonder if the real story actually went like that...

because I did not get to read all of the subtexts, which might answer some questions I still have about the storyline.

>
>but other than that, i feel it was a noble effort and i may
>see it again.
>
>oh and i do think hector's (laz alonso)acting was great.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

>Spike Lee's "Miracle at St. Anna" contains scenes of
>brilliance, interrupted by scenes that meander. There is too
>much, too many characters, too many subplots. But there is so
>much here that is powerful that it should be seen no matter
>its imperfections. There are scenes that could have been lost
>to more decisive editing, but I found after a few days that my
>mind did the editing for me, and I was left with lasting
>impressions.

The movie has gotten better in my eyes the more I think about it afterwards. It's far from perfect but the good outweighs the bad & I don't blame Spike & McBride for their ambition. In fact it probably wouldn't have been as good if they just stuck with the *ahem* four brothers the entire time.

>The story involves four African-American soldiers behind enemy
>lines in Italy in World War II. It's a story that needs
>telling. It begins with an old black man looking at an old
>John Wayne movie on TV, and murmuring, "We fought that war,
>too." The next day, he goes to work at the post office and
>does something that startles us. The movie will eventually
>explain who he is and why he did it. But in a way we don't
>need that opening scene, and we especially don't need the
>closing scene, not the way it plays, when a man walks slowly
>toward a seated man on a beach. The problem is, the wrong man
>is doing the walking.

Ebert just spit a lil liquid hot magma with that last line there.

>You may disagree. There is one "extraneous" scene that is
>absolutely essential. While in the Deep South for basic
>training, the four soldiers are refused service in a local
>restaurant, while four German POWs relax comfortably in a
>booth.

This is 1 of the scenes I was referring to in my review on the other thread. But how is it "extraneous" if its absolutely essential?

>"Miracle at St. Anna" has one of the best battle scenes I can
>remember, on a par with "Saving Private Ryan" but more tightly
>focused in a specific situation rather than encompassing a
>huge panorama. The four soldiers find themselves standing in a
>river, with a Nazi loudspeaker blasting the sultry voice of
>"Axis Sally," who promises them sexy women and racial equality
>in Germany.

This is the other scene I was referring to. I wonder how accurate this was. Some of the shit she says becomes downright comical. But not necessarily in a good way.

>The four who survive find themselves in a small hill village.
>They are Stamps (Derek Luke), cool and collected; Cummings
>(Michael Ealy), a skirt-chaser; Negron (Laz Alonso), a Puerto
>Rican, and Train (Omar Benson Miller), a towering man with the
>gentle simplicity of a child. Train has picked up the head of
>a statue from Florence and carries it with him because he
>believes that dubbing it makes him invulnerable.

It would've been nice if they showed this scene of him picking up the statue. Instead the 1st scene you see, he's already carrying it & I had no idea why. He sorta explains it later but I think it would've been nice to see him acquire the statue's head at the expense of some of the other scenes later on that really didn't seem to serve that much of a purpose.

>The story of the bond between Train and the boy Angelo seems
>like material for a different movie. Yes, it involved me, but
>it seemed to exist on the plane of parable, not realism.

I disagree. Their bond is 1 of the highlights of the movie.

It
>involves a shift of the emotions away from the surrounding
>action.

To me that's a good thing. And there really wasn't that much action anyways.

The acting is superb. Omar Benson Miller (not actually
>as tall as the movie makes him seem) feels responsible for the
>boy because he saved his life, and the two form a bond across
>the language barrier. Matteo Sciabordi, in his first
>performance, is a natural the camera loves. I can imagine an
>entire feature based on these two, but I am not sure this
>story, seen this way, could have taken place in the reality of
>this film.

I'm not sure why not. Once again I gotta disagree with Ebert here.

>Another scene I doubted is an extended one involving a dance
>in the local church, with music playing loudly, GIs standing
>illuminated in an open doorway, just as if they weren't behind
>enemy lines and the hills weren't possibly crawling with
>Nazis. The romantic developments during that scene would have
>seemed more at home in a musical.

The only problem I have with this scene is what happens later on between Stamps & Cummings regarding Renata. I can sorta understand Stamps reaction but at the same time it seems a little salty.

>In a sense, the scenes I complain about are evidence of Lee's
>stature as an artist. In a time of studios and many filmmakers
>who play it safe and right down the middle, Lee has a vision
>and sticks to it. The scenes I object to are not evidence of
>any special perception I have. They're the kind of scenes many
>studio chiefs from the dawn of film might have singled out, in
>the interest of making the film shorter and faster. But
>they're important to Lee, who must have defended them. And
>it's important to me that he did. When you see one of his
>films, you're seeing one of his films. And "Miracle at St.
>Anna" contains richness, anger, history, sentiment, fantasy,
>reality, violence and life. Maybe too much. Better than too
>little.

^^^Spot on here

I got an advanced screening, and really liked it.

"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

Once I realized I was going to be dealing with preachy, 'SHE'S GOTTA HAVE IT' spike, I bailed.

Just give me an entertaining story and let me draw my own conclusions.

Don't beat me on the head (c) tip

The past is my foundation, not my preoccupation.

http://www.typeillypress.com
http://www.twitter.com/mtorez

I've read 100s of a his reviews over the years.

That being said, I was too caught up in the debate to see the movie tonight, I'll probably go see it tomorrow.

----

...is even if he knows the movie isn't "good" from a snooty film analyst's perspective, but he still likes it, he'll still give it a good review. He grades from his heart, not from his brain. Most critics nowadays spend too much time trying to impress you, whereas Ebert just genuinely loves movies, and wants every single movie he sees to be great.

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He reminds me of the little kid from Cinema Paradiso. You could tell he loves movies and he breaks it down for casual moviegoer to film aficionados.

>...is even if he knows the movie isn't "good" from a snooty
>film analyst's perspective, but he still likes it, he'll still
>give it a good review. He grades from his heart, not from his
>brain. Most critics nowadays spend too much time trying to
>impress you, whereas Ebert just genuinely loves movies, and
>wants every single movie he sees to be great.

___________________________
twitter: http://twitter.com/qwimby

I felt that somewhere in all of this was an Oscar winner. There was some focused, brilliant stuff within these scenes but it took so long to get to them. I feel that St. Anna lost far too much steam once the soldiers got into the city. It took forever to get to the next plot point. Also, I think everything was tied up a little too quick and easy. But, unfortunately, that probably had to happen with the already long running time.

It's good enough to recommend but, unfortunately, it's not quite the contender it could have been.
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The OKP® King of the Late Pass™
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but i totally agree with ending...i was left standing there like wtf?...first of all, Hector's acting was great (even if silent) in the opening scene, rather than him at the end...terrible...i actually think they should've had a totally different actor who looked similar to Hector rather than aging the actor with makeup...the walk at the end to the person sitting on the chair was laughable...the whole staggering and over acting was bad...and yes it should've been the other way around...

what was great about the opening scene, espcially when he was watching the old war movie, is that if you notice the music in that movie is similar to the music Lee used in some of the war scenes that lead to the playful scenes between the boy and Train..if the war scenes gave a serious vibe like in most war movies where the music is very dramatic it wouldn't have worked with the following scenes...

I've learned to let them go.

oh god, now I'm having Jungle Fever flashbacks.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (c) Dat Snipe

- Dub

I give rappers the biz for being m-izza-a-archaic.

Inside Man 2 should be interesting

my thoughts exactly.

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"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

>but i totally agree with ending...i was left standing there
>like wtf?...first of all, Hector's acting was great (even if
>silent) in the opening scene, rather than him at the
>end...terrible...i actually think they should've had a totally
>different actor who looked similar to Hector rather than aging
>the actor with makeup...the walk at the end to the person
>sitting on the chair was laughable...the whole staggering and
>over acting was bad...and yes it should've been the other way
>around...

Yeah the staggering was a bit much

RING

I have a 400 year old chip on my shoulder.

nah it was good, i'm still digesting it. powerful film, didnt really tie up the past and the present too much, though, it could've been a straightforward war movie, maybe didnt need the flashback element.

i love the complaints about the train character from the same white critics that loved green mile and forrest gump.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

didn't bleed to death? And I still don't get why Hector wasn't killed. Truthfully, it seems like Spike and James McBride plotted the battle to a point where no one could escape alive so they had to make up a way for Hector and Angelo would survive.

And was I the only one who almost missed the reveal that the man Hector shot was Rodolfo?
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The OKP® King of the Late Pass™
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I thought he was shot in the radio.
My question was why did the German give him a gun? Nazis were killing everything then suddenly got merciful?

I have a 400 year old chip on my shoulder.

And it's that stuff that keeps this film from truly being excellent. Another unnecessary scene was the Nazi art dealer in Italy. None of that factored into the film at all.
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he had that Nazi General barkin on him about finding The Butterfly...and when the General bounces Commander-give-a-nigga-a-gun tells his subordinate he wants to go home to his family.

I know it's a stretch, but that's where i thought the motivation came from.

"This is some BULLSHIT" (c) me at Central Booking

because Hector could have shot him just cause the guy was a Nazi.
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The OKP® King of the Late Pass™
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out the window. The paper landed in Adult Angelo's lap. He fainted found Hector. BUT I guess Angelo could have just brought a paper ....then fainted

The mind is everything; what you think, you become. - The Buddha

>fainted found Hector. BUT I guess Angelo could have just
>brought a paper ....then fainted

LOL

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

The dude who gave him the gun was already merciful though.

I did not figure that out until I was on my way home from the movie.

>>And was I the only one who almost missed the reveal that the
>man Hector shot was Rodolfo?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

Although it did put a smile on my face what the soldiers did when they came back.
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I have a 400 year old chip on my shoulder.

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The OKP® King of the Late Pass™
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YIKES. This was 344,769 films at once.

I give it a solid grade of:

C (possibly C+)

This film was Exhibit A for:

-Why you shouldn't ever try to include everything
from the book. This film was partly a story of a black
regiment and their plight, part 'Pan's Labrynith' mystical
tale, part WW2 story, and ended up being none of them. The
individual themes were done well at times, but together
came across as clumsy and awkward.

The problem, of course, is that no one has ever told
a story of black soldiers in WW2 before, and so Spike was
burdened with *having* to tell the race story. Because
he didn't have proper time, he had to force it into
dialogue, and it didn't have a very organic feel.

Ideally, someone would have made a film with black
soldiers in WW2 a long time ago, so Spike could have
been more understated with his race commentary, and
could have instead focused on all the spiritual
mysticism shit(which had potential).

-Exhibit A for Why you shouldn't change your filmmaking
style to fit what you think the public needs:

Spike specializes in being understated, with his
understated, ambiguous endings. He changed that here because
he didn't want to be criticized for inserting too many Spike
Lee-isms into the film. Problem was, a classic Spike Lee
ending would have been ideal here, because the Steven
Spielberg ET bullshit he went with was a HUGE miss and took
half a grade off my final score.


-But the basic problem is what I mentioned first:

Too much to do in this film. To be honest, this film
could have had nothing to do with race at all and still
been an interesting WW2 film -- that's how compelling all
the mysticism is, as is the Italian angle. It was shot
beautifully and the Italian stuff was directed quite
well. Oddly, the Italian interactions were more Organic
than the interactions between black soldiers...and the
Italian acting was better too, overall...not because
the actors were more talented(that *was* a talented
black cast, save Train character) but instead because less
was asked of them, and the interactions were less forced.

Having to fit in the race angle(understandable and
important) was just TOO MUCH for ANY FILMMAKER to tackle.

In my opinion, a black WW2 story should have a VERY
SIMPLE PREMISE, whereby you can then develop characters
and their interactions and their history.

Take 'Saving Private Ryan' -- that premise was
*very* SIMPLE:

*very*

The entire story became ABOUT THE GROUP, how they INTERACTED,
and their BATTLES.

That is the ideal setting in which to explore sub themes like
the race of the soldiers.

A film like 'Saving Private Ryan', which was not burdened
with having to tell any kind of enriching story about the
soldiers, would have flopped with a mysticism angle. And
SPR was STILL over 2 hours long.

That's the kind of story needed to APPROPRIATELY explore
race.

Not this 'Pan's Labrynith' mysticism bullshit.

It was just too much. Waaay too much.

Way, way, waaaaay too much.




----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

I agree with there being too much for Spike to do. If he took out one of those elements, I think he would've nailed it. I think the race stuff was a little forced but I understand why Spike felt he had to add it all.
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The OKP® King of the Late Pass™
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>The problem, of course, is that no one has ever told
>a story of black soldiers in WW2 before, and so Spike was
>burdened with *having* to tell the race story.

http://tinyurl.com/4otr7e
http://tinyurl.com/4g4pny

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." © Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

>>The problem, of course, is that no one has ever told
>>a story of black soldiers in WW2 before, and so Spike was
>>burdened with *having* to tell the race story.

Airmen is about Airmen

A Soldier's Story was about an officer murder in
Louisiana

Neither were about combatants, on the ground,
in WW2.

That has never been done before on film.

>>>The problem, of course, is that no one has ever told
>>>a story of black soldiers in WW2 before, and so Spike was
>>>burdened with *having* to tell the race story.
>
>Airmen is about Airmen
>
>A Soldier's Story was about an officer murder in
>Louisiana
>
>Neither were about combatants, on the ground,
>in WW2.
>
>That has never been done before on film.

as you should have done from the beginning.

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." © Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

the race angle or the mysticism angle? or if not taken out altogether tightened up?

>the race angle or the mysticism angle? or if not taken out
>altogether tightened up?

Maybe toned down on the mysticism so that the race
story could have been better developed. The entire
race issue was rushed into a handful of scenes.



----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

basically, spike just put it out there that white females are curious whores and niggas who know this get the pussy, while hankyheads get played.

i thought it was powerful

dat i-talian got thug-loved

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

>basically, spike just put it out there that white females are
>curious whores and niggas who know this get the pussy, while
>hankyheads get played.
>
>i thought it was powerful
>
>dat i-talian got thug-loved

LOL

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

to each interpretation one's own

_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

Certain scenes worked, certain scenes were overdone.

Spike gets a pass with me. I understand why the critics hate it, they would. It's almost good. I don't even know what would happen if the Critics actually liked a Spike film. It would probably mean that it was soft and really not that great.

I need AT LEAST a few days to process this all before I really speak on it. I've just spent the whole afternoon digesting, and I'm going to have to keep on that.

Yes, there's problems, but the good things far outweigh them, and it's a respectable, necessary entry on Spike's resume.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
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She's Gotta Have It
School Daze
Do the Right Thing
Malcolm X
Clockers
Get on the Bus
Summer of Sam (yes, it's true!)
25th Hour
4 Little Girls
The Original Kings of Comedy
When the Levees Broke
Inside Man


Newsflash: Spike doesn't hit every single project out of the park, gang, and I'm not going to throw "they racist" bombs at critics who don't automatically "get" or support everything he puts out...
________________________________________________________________________
"I want to be done playing this lady Nov. 5..." - Tina Fey

I could care less what others thought.

It was an incredible movie, but not one of spike's best. But Spike Lee is like the Prince of movie-making: even his WORST efforts are still pretty d*#n good. I'm still not clear on what the dark-haired Italian was so guilty about, nor what his role was in the slaughter of innocent Italians at the church. I also did not get a good enough look @ the posters to understand if they were making a caricature against America PERIOD, or Black America, specifically. It was too much going on. At once.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

I guess Spike just really needed to make his own Private Ryan, terrible bookends and all.

Remove that -- what? -- twenty minutes of the movie? and I think you have not just a good movie, but a great movie. Yeah, the old soldier talking back to John Wayne is a pretty important scene, but even WITHOUT that, I think the stuff Spike puts in the middle does a good job of bringing up all the requisite issues. He could have found a different time to talk back to the movie industry, or a different way to do it, because in the end the bookends just over-convoluted the story and really, really didn't fit the feel of the rest of it.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

Because the "he should have cut stuff out" argument
is actually more difficult than it sounds. All of the
stuff in there really did need to be in there. I think
the problem might've been more upstream, as in with the
approach.

Maybe he shouldn't have tried to be faithful to the
book and just changed shit outright.

Of course, "purists" would be upset at this, but
it would made for a better film

----------------------------


O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

"In one of the first scenes in "Miracle at St. Anna," a black man watches John Wayne in "The Longest Day" on television, and whispers, 'Pilgrim, we fought for this country too,' a line that Lee himself wrote into James McBride's screenplay....

He also needed the right source material, which came along in McBride's 2002 book, a fictionalized account of four Buffalo Soldiers that was based on McBride's extensive research. On the heels of his 2006 commercial success, 'Inside Man,' Lee enlisted McBride to write the screenplay. McBride found his director to be very demanding. 'But he's very demanding of himself,' says the writer, who adds that Lee pushed him most of all to create 'multidimensional' characters, whether they were African American, Italian partisans or Nazi officers."

- Los Angeles Times, September 25, 2008


If Spike had cut, say, 15 minutes (including, as much as it pains me to say this, the John Leguizamo cameo with the UNBELIEVABLY HOT Italian woman straddling him... which led to the ridiculousness of the paper flying out of the window and right into Older Angelo's hands... cmon, Spike, cmon), this would have been a tight, focused, epic-scaled film...

In its current state, however, it's damn good... but then again, I'm not sure we need the 80's framework... that just pads the running time and tries to get us engaged in a mystery that I really didn't care about... as the setup went on and on, I kept waiting for the jump backward to 1944 so the actual story could begin...

... that said, I don't know what I would cut from the middle of the film. I would have, however, pulled back on the Train-Angelo stuff, only because it distracted from the story that I was really interested in, and that was the soldiers... but then again, how much to you cut back and not hurt the main story?

One sequence that definitely would NOT get cut is the one in the Louisiana diner... I thought that was great, and it ended perfectly, with the GREAT shot of our heroes in Tuscany, facing the camera, then slowly peeling off, one by one, until there's the reveal that they're looking at the propaganda posters... I thought that sequence was EXTREMELY well-done... that's when the film really gained some momentum to me...

And my God, the St. Anna's massacre... it got kinda goofy near the end of it with Angelo, his brother, and the Germans, but before that... wow...

But in addition to the goofy framing device, I also didn't need the silly-ass love triangle that kinda developed... yes, Valentina Cervi is hot, and it was nice to see her boobies, but still... the "mack vs. upstanding Negro" rivalry for her affections felt like it needed to go in another movie... it would have been perfectly fine for neither one of them to end up with her, as it really added nothing but time padding onto the film (and provided yet more ammunition for critics -- black and white, pro or not -- of Spike's treatment of female characters in his films)...

Performance-wise, I thought Derek Luke was outstanding... Laz pulled his weight as well... but I wasn't that enamored with Michael Ealy, or Omar Benson Miller, for that matter... every time he said "Boy," for some reason I flashed back to Michael Clarke Duncan's repeated use of "Boss" in The Green Mile...

I also had no problem with Terence Blanchard's score blanketing the film...

I hate to run so hot and cold about this film, because I really liked MOST of it a lot...


... also, shout-out to revered PTP favorite George Lucas, who is listed as a benefactor in the closing credits (and yes, we know he's planning on making a black WWII film)...
_____________________________________________________________________
"I want to be done playing this lady Nov. 5..." - Tina Fey

first...
it's an experience to say the least watchin "race movies" as the only blk folk in a white theatre...in minnesota

i found it curious that the only times the {blk} soldiers engaged in physical combat amongst themselves, it was "over" a white/italian person
bishop v. stamps over renata
train v. the other soldier over angelo

i made a correlation between how hector was given the luger & told to defend himself & how the gun he was given ultimately was used on a white person to how big brother flooded the blk community w/guns & that were ultimately were used against ppl not commonly "seen" as >the enemy<
the fact that this occur'd in the 80s was not lost on me

w/any good sense
matteo sciabordi {angelo} will be next in succession of children receivin oscars

train verged on bein an idiot @ times
understood the gentle, simple giant
@ times it was extreme

i liked the movie
really liked the movie
i gave it ***.5

_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

>i made a correlation between how hector was given the luger &
>told to defend himself & how the gun he was given ultimately
>was used on a white person to how big brother flooded the blk
>community w/guns & that were ultimately were used against ppl
>not commonly "seen" as >the enemy<
>the fact that this occur'd in the 80s was not lost on me

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

imo, you really have to just dig deep and just truly appreciate the quality of the film. the actors, the plot, the language, the shots, etc.

for black films that are nowadays being run by tyler perry and co. im glad that this movie came out and really raised the bar for black movies to come.

i just saw it last night and i loved it.

sidenote: i feel that maybe Buggin' Out could've been old Hector that shot that guy. i just thought it woulda worked better.

Let's go over some of the stuff that's been complained about. And yes, this will contain spoilers.

I think most of the complaints have to do with the coincidences/miracles-- how did Hector know he'd be in the train station? He didn't, he was told to have that gun with him at all times, he saw Roldolfo, and did what he'd been wanting to do. How did Hector/Angelo survive? How did Angelo get that newspaper dropped on his table? How how how? Again, this film wears the miracle aspect on its sleeve, so if you have trouble with coincidence as a form of faith-brought miracle or an end result of a person's fate by God, then you're gonna struggle with the whole religious aspect of the movie, and you're probably not gonna dig it too much. I loved the religious stuff.

In terms of the length... I honestly was never bored. I felt the film's narrative meandered, sure-- most Spike films do-- but I didn't check my watch. I was constantly interested in all of the characters, who they were, what was going to happen to them, etc.

In terms of the ambition? It's hard to fault Spike here, since he had this religious war movie, with characters speaking all different languages... but he HAD to deal with race, because it's the most important part of the Buffalo Soldiers. That opening scene, where the Americans are fucking them from the back, and the Germans are fucking them from the front, yet they still were moving forward, refusing to back down-- that made me feel really fucking patriotic. These men, who had nothing special to go home to, felt that fighting and dying for a country that oppressed them was important enough that in the face of adversity, they plowed forward. I can't think of too many equivalent bouts of heroism. And Spike nailed that for me, and I was constantly reminded of it throughout the film.

That malt shop scene... again, important to remind us just how heroic they were. Here were guys DYING FOR US, and we wouldn't even give them a fucking milkshake. And when they turned back around? Totally awesome. And that stare into the camera? Anyone who said in their review that this movie didn't feel like a Spike movie must've been buying another pack of Milk Duds.

The final scene, on the beach? Zero problem with it. None. Great ending, I thought, beautifully acted (btw, Laz Alonso really should be considered come awards season, imo... at least a nomination). So it wasn't ambiguous, so it wrapped it up in a happy ending. Again, it's a movie about miracles. This is the final miracle-- the group avenged, Hector free, Angelo reunited with one of his saviors. If you have a problem with the coincidences/miracles aspects of the film, again, I understand if you weren't feeling the ending. But I thought it was perfect. I actually thought immediately afterward, "I'd like to see these poo-pooers who complain about Spike's ending whine about THIS one."

The gentle giant stuff? Yeah, at times I did feel like I was watching The Green Mile again... but it was so well-acted that I didn't care. I loved the character's ending too, and his unique relationships with every character in the film.

What else is there to mention? Fantastic score, Blanchard hit a home run with this one. The monologue by the German woman over the radio, Jesus what a scene. The action sequences were terrifically staged, and never failed to be devastating. Matthew Libatique is emerging as one of the best and most diverse cinematographers/directors of photography around-- few people working today have such a wide range in their portfolio. The way the camera follows the gun after the massacre at the church... that's just great filmmaking, period.

In conclusion, I see the gripes. I understand. You didn't like the coincidences/miracles angle. That certainly would've made it seem too long. You thought Spike was burdened by the necessity of tackling all these issues. Again, I can see it. I felt he juggled it all nobly, delivered an epic tale, and wrapped it all up nicely. Why would they not be advertising this film more on TV and in theatres? Is it because a smart film about religion and race in wartime just isn't gonna put asses in seats? Is it because war flicks need more action, and need less accusatory glares that make white viewers uncomfortable? Or has Spike just offended one too many high-up people?

I have more thoughts, I'm sure... but for now, I'll just let it sit.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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________________________________________________________________________
"I want to be done playing this lady Nov. 5..." - Tina Fey

I didn't see it as much of a love triangle. Bishop of course really dug her, but I felt Stamps' reaction when she slept with Bishop wasn't as much an "I love you" reaction, but more of a "I thought you were a better woman than to fall for this dude's advances" reaction. Stamps and Bishop had problems way before Bishop started telling her about his big black dick and how much she'd love it.

Plus, Stamps hinted that he hated that routine because that's how white people saw black people in America, as these sexual animals, and that Bishop was reinforcing that with his behavior. I know Stamps liked the woman, and there was some friction, sure... I just felt it was never really a love triangle, more like two men with different ideals who both reflected those ideals onto this woman.

Maybe I'm just reading too much into it tho. Also, I can only imagine if I was a guy off at war, and I'm living in a house with that fine woman too. It would've driven me up the walls.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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Or, if you're going to keep it, just keep it and move on, instead of shining a light on it with Stamps' silly-assed reaction, then having him take the cheap shot (like when he called her "Heidi Ho" or whatever) to finish it off... at that moment it felt like everything war and survival-related took a back seat to some bullshit...

I know what all of it represented, but the question of whether we *really* needed any of it remains for me...
________________________________________________________________________
"I want to be done playing this lady Nov. 5..." - Tina Fey

>I didn't see it as much of a love triangle. Bishop of course
>really dug her, but I felt Stamps' reaction when she slept
>with Bishop wasn't as much an "I love you" reaction, but more
>of a "I thought you were a better woman than to fall for this
>dude's advances" reaction. Stamps and Bishop had problems way
>before Bishop started telling her about his big black dick and
>how much she'd love it.
>
>Plus, Stamps hinted that he hated that routine because that's
>how white people saw black people in America, as these sexual
>animals, and that Bishop was reinforcing that with his
>behavior. I know Stamps liked the woman, and there was some
>friction, sure... I just felt it was never really a love
>triangle, more like two men with different ideals who both
>reflected those ideals onto this woman.
>
>Maybe I'm just reading too much into it tho. Also, I can only
>imagine if I was a guy off at war, and I'm living in a house
>with that fine woman too. It would've driven me up the walls.

I'm not really mad at that part at all. I mean, I get how it's a little superfluous, but it's Spike's movie, he can do what he wants. In the end it wasn't a negative. Maybe not a positive, but I think you'd be lying if you said it was a negative.

It definitely DID illuminate a little something else of the black serviceman's experience fighting abroad, and helped paint the type of characters Stamps and Bishop were.

I think the dynamic between those two was very relevant, to give two different voices to the reasons blacks served. One was a hustler, serving because it was something to do, the other was trying to proudly represent himself and his people. The way they went about courting the woman did a lot to show their attitudes in that regard, and helped strengthen that discussion between the characters.

___________

HOPE!
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http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/va/20081001/122289041500.html

Film director Spike Lee has set off a storm in Italy with a movie about black American soldiers fighting alongside Italian partisans in World War Two.

Surviving members of the resistance to the Nazi occupation of Italy have taken issue with "Miracle at St. Anna" ahead of the film's Italian release on Friday, distributing protest flyers and accusing Lee of distorting history.

Lee has said he wanted to set the record straight about the role played by black U.S. soldiers in the war. The film is based on a novel by James McBride and focuses on the all-black 92nd Buffalo Division which helped liberate Italy in 1944-45.

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At the heart of the dispute is the film's depiction of an infamous 1944 massacre in the Tuscan town of Sant'Anna di Stazzema, where Nazi troops rounded up and killed 560 civilians.

In the film, the massacre is portrayed as a response to the actions of resistance fighters, with one of them betraying the town and colluding with the Nazis -- a version of events that has angered surviving partisans.

Lee, who is in Italy promoting the film, has responded to the criticism in his characteristically feisty manner.

"I would not allow anybody to tell me how to make a film, be it a partisan or the president of the United States," Lee told a news conference in Florence on Wednesday after a preview screening, according to Italian media.

"This simply shows that in Italy the wound is still open. ... It is up to Italians to come to grips with their past, not up to me or James McBride or the film," he said.

Members of the ANPI association of resistance fighters were not amused.

"For Spike Lee the partisans who 'hit and then ran away' were responsible for the Sant'Anna di Stazzema massacre," ANPI said on its website.

"Before shooting his film, the director should have read the truth about that horrible slaughter," it said, posting a copy of the 2005 verdict of an Italian military tribunal which convicted 10 ex-Nazi officers for the murders.

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=miracleatstanna.htm

Number nine @ the B.O. opening weekend.

$3.48 mil, on 1185 screens.

If I were Spike, I'd run and hide someplace...

so the point would beeeeee...

_____________
Kamikaze Genes
____________♌♀
goddess; small g.

To make my opinion short I just want to agree with some thoughts with Ebert, Orbit_Established, and ZooTown74.

The movie had so much going on, but it all fit together.

The ending could of been polish more, it was way too quick. I would like to think this and Inside Man had some sort of connection due to it's WWII background.

Anyways, I wasn't disappointed.

Of course the scenes that stuck out for me was when everyone was praying to the SAME God. That was powerful.

And the Louisiana scene. Also very powerful. Spikes moments.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

a lot of things added about a couple of hours after seeing the movie.

i though the acting was superb, save for Derek Luke.

i think Luke is a solid actor, but Laz would have been better in charge of the group and Luke play the suboordinate.

i thought Laz did a great job.

the italian actors were great too. i thought the little boy was excellent.

only thing i really didn't like was the musical score. it became annoying for some of the scenes.

but overall, i dug the movie.

it took a while for me to get into it for the 1st hour or so, but after that i was hooked.

the ending was kinda cheesy though. when i saw him walking on that beach toward Angelo, i couldn't help but laugh.

i give it a B+.

<--- we've got bush!