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Subject: "LOST theories" Previous topic | Next topic
paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 05:20 PM

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"LOST theories"


          

why is jack and claire's father on the island? he cant be dead...how did locke's father get there? and why did all the others think locke was the chosen one?


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Answers:
May 10th 2008
1
RE: Answers:
May 10th 2008
4
      Answers:
May 10th 2008
5
           claire ain't dead, that is unsubstantiated
May 10th 2008
6
                Saying she's alive is also unsubstantiated.
May 10th 2008
7
                     she woke up to find her dad holding aaron
May 10th 2008
8
                          Did she?
May 10th 2008
9
                               so she gets killed
May 10th 2008
10
                                    No.
May 10th 2008
11
                                         funny swipe
May 10th 2008
14
                                              ok now i believe she's dead lol n.m
May 12th 2008
43
                                                  
May 12th 2008
47
what did jack do for the island to make him sick?
May 10th 2008
2
Trying to leave.
May 10th 2008
3
      yes this makes sense
May 12th 2008
51
why cant ben kill widmore?
May 10th 2008
12
ohhh, the island wont let them kill each other
May 10th 2008
15
      about shooting locke
May 10th 2008
17
who raised locke?
May 10th 2008
13
um...why not??
May 10th 2008
24
looking into it
May 11th 2008
27
Foster homes
May 11th 2008
35
locke's knife is going to be pivotal
May 10th 2008
16
u go out into the australian outback...
May 10th 2008
22
      Locke's not a hunter
May 13th 2008
60
           yeah
May 14th 2008
63
ben says he's not always the leader
May 10th 2008
18
he said he wasn't ALWAYS the leader
May 10th 2008
25
why does widmore wanna torch the island?
May 10th 2008
19
mystery tales
May 10th 2008
20
what are the consequences to being chosen?
May 10th 2008
21
THE GREAT GEDANKEN EXPERIMENT, A TALE OF TIME TRAVEL AND SCHRODINGER'S C...
May 10th 2008
23
it's obviously based on The Forbidden Planet and The Tempest
May 11th 2008
26
they take bits from everything
May 11th 2008
28
RE: they take bits from everything
May 11th 2008
31
      henry gale
May 11th 2008
33
           RE: henry gale
May 11th 2008
37
                The Invention of Morel
May 11th 2008
38
one of the dharma sites was called the tempest
May 11th 2008
30
dude, the monster has been explained
May 11th 2008
39
      Cerberus
May 11th 2008
40
           ok but that doesn't explain what it actually IS
May 12th 2008
41
           the island is obviously not working properly
May 12th 2008
42
           I thought this was a theory and not proved yet
May 12th 2008
44
                the producer
May 12th 2008
46
                     I don't know how you all remember all these things
May 12th 2008
53
                          its written on the blast wall hologram thing
May 12th 2008
55
hanso foundation
May 11th 2008
29
Hans O(ersted) father of electromagnetism
May 12th 2008
45
      i can buy some of that
May 12th 2008
48
           i don't buy that either
May 12th 2008
49
is there an amelia earhart connection?
May 11th 2008
32
Brother themes
May 11th 2008
34
namesakes
May 11th 2008
36
What's up with Miles when he was in the dead grandson's room?
May 12th 2008
50
WHOA
May 12th 2008
54
      whoa is right
May 12th 2008
56
           i watched it again
May 14th 2008
62
NEW SHIT
May 12th 2008
52
mathew abbadon
May 12th 2008
57
WALT shit gets deep
May 12th 2008
58
the Walt aspect is interesting, but you don't believe the Frogurt angle ...
May 13th 2008
59
      negative on the frogurt
May 14th 2008
61
           I don't think he actually dies...
May 14th 2008
64
                we know that two die
May 14th 2008
65
                     I don't want Locke to die
May 14th 2008
66
                          if I've learned ANYTHING, it's not to believe what I see, lol...
May 14th 2008
67
                          that's what jack testified to
May 14th 2008
68
                               on second thought
May 14th 2008
69

Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85467 posts
Sat May-10-08 05:28 PM

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1. "Answers:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>why is jack and claire's father on the island?

He was on the plane.

he cant be
>dead...

Yes he can.

>how did locke's father get there?

Either Ben got him from the mainland, or it was magic.

and why did all the
>others think locke was the chosen one?

Because the island has plan for him.

>Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full
>of white people

Agreed.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 05:43 PM

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4. "RE: Answers:"
In response to Reply # 1


          

but why is he kickin it all over the island and back on the main land?

if he's dead why is it that everybody sees him; miles, claire, locke, jack?

he has to have some kind of connection to ben or widmore

and i refuse to believe that benjamin fuckin linus is at the mercy of john locke right now, its like when he acknowledged locke tricking hugo........locke: im not you, ben: no, you're not

i dont trust jacob, ben, claire, micheal, jack's dad or anybody on/from the freighter

im just sayin

Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sat May-10-08 05:45 PM

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5. "Answers:"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>but why is he kickin it all over the island and back on the
>main land?

Because of the magic of the island.

>if he's dead why is it that everybody sees him; miles, claire,
>locke, jack?

Because of the magic of the island.

>he has to have some kind of connection to ben or widmore

He could... but he's also dead.

>and i refuse to believe that benjamin fuckin linus is at the
>mercy of john locke right now, its like when he acknowledged
>locke tricking hugo........locke: im not you, ben: no, you're
>not

Locke is right where Ben wants him.

>i dont trust jacob, ben, claire, micheal, jack's dad or
>anybody on/from the freighter

Well, two of them are dead, two are liars, and one is a ghost of some sort. So I wouldn't trust them either.

>im just sayin

I'm just sayin.

>Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full
>of white people

Agreed.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 05:56 PM

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6. "claire ain't dead, that is unsubstantiated"
In response to Reply # 5


          


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85467 posts
Sat May-10-08 06:07 PM

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7. "Saying she's alive is also unsubstantiated."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 06:10 PM

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8. "she woke up to find her dad holding aaron"
In response to Reply # 7


          

dead people don't wake up...if she's dead everybody is dead

Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85467 posts
Sat May-10-08 06:25 PM

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9. "Did she?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

We don't know if she saw her actual father or a vision. People see dead people on this island all the time.

>dead people don't wake up

On this island, dead people walk around all the time.

>...if she's dead everybody is dead

Not necessarily.

>Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full
>of white people

Agreed.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 07:27 PM

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10. "so she gets killed"
In response to Reply # 9


          

and then 'comes to' in the jungle, notices her pops and runs off with him? that doesnt explain how aaron is moving around


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85467 posts
Sat May-10-08 07:32 PM

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11. "No."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>so she gets killed
>and then 'comes to' in the jungle, notices her pops and runs
>off with him? that doesnt explain how aaron is moving around

No. She might have followed a vision she had into danger. The visions on this island do make physical appearances (Dave hitting Hurley, etc). That would explain how she dies and how Aaron moves. I never said she never woke up.


>Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full
>of white people

Agreed.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 07:46 PM

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14. "funny swipe"
In response to Reply # 11


          


CLAIRE

Let's see...you only met your real father a few years earlier, you resent/reject him and refuse to even find out his name, you crash on a remote island, have a baby, encounter your father there, leave your child in the jungle and hang out in a shack sharing a smile with the man. Yeah, she's dead.


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Kevan
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Mon May-12-08 01:24 PM

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43. "ok now i believe she's dead lol n.m"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

  

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paragon216
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Mon May-12-08 02:07 PM

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47. ""
In response to Reply # 43


          

-- Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse
Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 05:32 PM

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2. "what did jack do for the island to make him sick?"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85467 posts
Sat May-10-08 05:35 PM

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3. "Trying to leave."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

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Kevan
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51. "yes this makes sense"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

i wondered how someone could get sick on the island, but this definitely explains it

  

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paragon216
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12. "why cant ben kill widmore?"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 07:50 PM

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15. "ohhh, the island wont let them kill each other"
In response to Reply # 12


          


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 08:09 PM

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17. "about shooting locke"
In response to Reply # 15


          

'i should've realized at the time that it was pointless, but..i wasnt thinking clearly'


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 07:38 PM

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13. "who raised locke?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

if his mother didnt then cooper cant be his father


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Calico
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Sat May-10-08 10:48 PM

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24. "um...why not??"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

...didn't Locke FIND his real mom after he grew up and SHE told him about his dad...

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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paragon216
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27. "looking into it"
In response to Reply # 24


          

  

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Zeno
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35. "Foster homes"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

This is mentioned in an earlier episode.

____________

Over 10 Years of Measured Responses

  

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paragon216
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16. "locke's knife is going to be pivotal"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and it's clear he and ben won't end up on the same team

Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 09:36 PM

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22. "u go out into the australian outback..."
In response to Reply # 16
Sat May-10-08 09:43 PM by paragon216

          

with nothing but a knife and ur wits....

thats why richard got pissed when locke picked the knife

Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Kevan
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60. "Locke's not a hunter"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

from http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Richard%27s_objects/Theories

# Eddie has something to do with this

* When Locke was in the commune and was about to shoot Eddy, Eddy goes, "Your not a hunter John" This could tie into the fact that he chose the knife, which represents hunting (which is what his job is on the island) instead if what he is "meant" to choose, one of the books

  

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paragon216
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63. "yeah"
In response to Reply # 60


          

it's clear dude has been tryna be something else his whole life


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 08:11 PM

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18. "ben says he's not always the leader"
In response to Reply # 0


          

so who is? richard? whidmore?

Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Calico
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25. "he said he wasn't ALWAYS the leader"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 08:35 PM

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19. "why does widmore wanna torch the island?"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 08:53 PM

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20. "mystery tales"
In response to Reply # 0


          

http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/SCPMfY3NPXI/AAAAAAAAYPA/2401M3wVkL0/s1600-h/1499-95407-1-mystery-tales_400.jpg

Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 09:33 PM

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21. "what are the consequences to being chosen?"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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Sat May-10-08 10:41 PM

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23. "THE GREAT GEDANKEN EXPERIMENT, A TALE OF TIME TRAVEL AND SCHRODINGER'S C..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

by SD Wynn
Posted by DarkUFO at 10:38 PM (Comments: 129)
Labels: Ben, Dharma, Locke, The Magnet, The Others


Let's go back to shortly after the turn of the Twentieth century, the days of Einstein and other early theoretical physicists. This was the dawn of the age of quantum mechanics, which provided new understanding and insight into physics at the sub-atomic level. New mathematics described the behavior of the tiny particles that make up all of matter in the universe. The math was clearly described in terms of numbers, symbols, formulas... however the application to nature as we know it was strange, weird, bizarre.

It was very difficult to wrap the human brain around many of the concepts of quantum mechanics, and the math alone was inadequate to explain the problems. Thus, physicists and mathematicians turned to "Gedanken Experiments," German for Thought Experiments. Applying the known concepts of quantum mechanics to situations in the "real world" allowed a conversation to take place in a way most anybody could (sort of) understand.

Before I lose you, here is an example. In the mathematics of quantum physics, time travel is THEORETICALLY possible. One of the most famous Gedanken Experiments is the Grandfather Paradox. If you could travel back in time, could you kill your grandfather? Logic tells you that no, you could not, for if you did, you would not exist. (Pause here and consider why Locke insists that "he can't" kill his father, he needs somebody else to do it.) The beautiful thing about Gedanken Experiments is that they are both scientific and philosophical, perfect fodder for a creative writer. In the case of the Grandfather Paradox, while they logic is clear, the actual experience of it is a mystery. Imagine actually standing there in the past, holding a loaded gun to the head of your grandfather... what would actually prevent you? "Something" would, some unknown mechanism of physics... and that is where the writers of "Lost" imagine for us.

"Lost" is a grand Gedanken Experiment, a test of science and philosophy. It asks the question, What if time travel were not only possible, but real, with technology developed in a manner as realistic and consistent with known theoretical physics as possible? And to make it even more dramatic, What if you could travel back in time, AND NOT KNOW IT? The passengers of Flight 815 have done exactly that, and the writers have made the audience go along with them, sharing the same sense of confusion and mystery.

Let's talk about what we know about time travel today. We are not talking about cheesy movies of the past, where one can travel back to the age of dinosaurs or the middle ages. In fact, in the "real" science of time travel, a few things are known by the constraints of physics and quantum mechanics.
There is a conceptual model of a real time machine, and it works something like this:

A time machine must have two parts, essentially two portals, connected by a wormhole (or black hole or whatever you want to call it). Door #1 is built alongside Door #2. Door #1 is allowed to continue along the "present"
timeline, while Door #2 is encapsulated in a bubble within space-time, thus separated from the present timeline. This would require a great amount of energy and technology obviously unknown today... but thanks to the writers of "Lost," it has been solved by Dharma Industries. The amount of separation would be only slight to begin with... say, 108 minutes. Since Door #1 exists in the present timeline, it can safely be located anywhere (Dharma headquarters?). Door #2, now operating in a different place in space-time, in the past, must be safely located in a remote location, for any type of interaction with it from the outside could be catastrophic.

There is a very important concept in time travel here, which is that you can NEVER travel back further in time than the creation of your time machine; Hence the impossibility of visiting the dinosaurs, etc. Now, if the two doors of your time machine were separated by only 108 minutes at the initial "event", but then allowed to just sit there, then both timelines would progress at the same pace, forever separated by only 108 minutes. Traveling to the past, but only by 108 minutes, would not be very interesting. Much more exciting would be to keep Door #2 back at the original time of its inception, while Door #1 continues to move forward in time. You could do this by continually "resetting" the clock on Door #2. Over time, the separation between the two doors would grow and grow, from minutes, to hours, to days, to years.

If you actually had the technology to achieve time travel in this manner, there are MANY profound questions you would have to test and answer in order to be confident that you could safely operate the time machine without catastrophically altering the future. The Grandfather Paradox is the most obvious, but actually only one of many questions.

ANSWER #1: What is the Dharma Initiative? It is the building and testing of a time machine, as described above. Door #1 is at the Dharma Headquarters, Door #2 is on the Island in the remote South Pacific.

The question isn't, Where is the Island? The question is, When is the Island? The answer to that depends on how long ago, in the present timeline, the time machine was created... approximately 14 years ago, I believe.

ANSWER #2: Why must the button be pushed every 108 minutes? This "resets"
the clock of Door #2 of the time machine, essentially holding it at the time of its inception in the relative past. If allowed to pass 108 minutes on the clock, then the time machine will lose the ability to reset itself. Why, then, must it be pressed by a person, and not just programmed to reset itself? This is because the controllers at Door #1 do not have control over Door #2 in the past, and should disaster strike, and nobody is left alive in the past at Door #2, it should be allowed to pass 108 minutes and no longer reset. ANSWER #3: What happened when the clock was allowed to pass 108 minutes? Door #2 of the time machine lost the ability to reset, and will now continue to progress along a timeline into the future, locked at approximately 14 years separation from Door #1.

What are some of the other critical questions, like the Grandfather Paradox, that must be answered when considering time travel? Here is a great one:

What if a childless woman travels back in time and conceives a child? ANSWER
#4: A childless woman cannot travel to the past and conceive a child, because if she did, she would not have been a childless woman. In "Lost", both mother and child die before the birth, thus preserving the timeline and laws of nature. Perhaps the Others do not fully understand this, and brought in fertility doctor Juliet to see if they can overcome this obstacle.

Consider another:

What if a child travels back to a time before he or she was born? Perhaps nothing... but what if the child dies in the past, before being born? Again, impossible. ANSWER #5: The Others abduct children on the Island to protect them at all costs, for they cannot allow the catastrophic violation of the laws of nature of a child dying before being conceived.

And yet another:

If you travel to the past, will you be the "you" of the present timeline when you arrive, or the younger "you" of the past, or some combination of the two? I do not know, but I believe this offers insight into why John Locke can walk on the Island despite being paralyzed. ANSWER #6: Locke can walk not because the Island has powers to cure, but because he has traveled back to a time BEFORE he was ever paralyzed. He is somehow a blend of the Locke of the present and the Locke of the past.

Who is Ben? I believe he is the creator of the time machine. The Others are his associates living in the time-space bubble around the Island and Door #2 of the time machine in the "past." They are managing it and testing the effects of time travel, and strictly controlling who exits this bubble into the outside world.

How does one arrive at the Island? There are two methods of traveling to the site (and time) of the Island. First is the controlled method via Door #1 at Dharma Headquarters. It is not via plane, submarine, or any other traditional method of transportation.

The other method is in the accidental collision with the time-space bubble that surrounds the Island, as happened with Oceanic Flight 815, the Portuguese woman's helicopter, etc. Despite the many theories that abound in online forums, the Others did not know that Flight 815 was coming or going to crash at the Island. It was a chance encounter. It was a disaster that created a paradox... what happens to a plane that crashes in the present, while entering the past? This leads to the question of whether the passengers are alive or dead, answered by talking about a cat.

Schrodinger's cat, to be specific. Again, quantum mechanics can be very strange. One of the strangest behaviors in particle physics is known as Superposition, which is the ability of a particle to occupy two different states simultaneously (like up and down, left and right, here and there, etc.). In the world we know, you cannot be both here and there, but in particle physics, a world of probability, chance, and duality, you can. How can one imagine this? Another great Gedanken Experiment was conceived, as follows:

Place a cat in a sealed, steel box, along with a bottle of poison. In addition, a radioactive element is placed within the steel box. The decay of this radioactive element triggers a hammer, which breaks the bottle, releasing the poison and killing the cat. For the observer, outside of the box, you do not know when this radioactive decay happens. Because of the laws of Superposition, the radioactive element can occupy both states simultaneously, for the briefest moment. For that blink in time, the bottle is both broken and intact... the cat is both dead and alive, at the same time. This is a puzzle of science, but more important perhaps is the philosophical question of what does it mean to be both dead and alive?

ANSWER #7: The passengers of Oceanic Flight 815 are dead at the bottom of the ocean. AND they are ALIVE on the Island. They are both dead and alive. I told you that you would love this one. Since they are alive in the "past" of the Island's timeline, can they return to the present in which they are dead? I guess that is the ultimate question that we will have to watch the show to find out.

A suggestion of an answer is found in Locke's/Sawyer's father. We were led to believe that he died in a car accident, and finds himself here on the Island. Of course he would think he's in hell! We believe that somehow Locke "willed" him here, but that was actually never said on the show. In fact, Ben said to Locke, "you brought him here." Perhaps what he means is this:

ANSWER #8: Locke's father did not die in the accident. I believe that we will find soon that Locke is going to leave the Island. The question that nobody asked Locke's father was when did the accident happen? See, Locke is going to return to the "present" timeline, and is going to pursue his father. He is going to find him, perhaps he is even going to cause his accident. He is going to drug and kidnap him, unable or unwilling to kill him by himself. He is somehow going to get him to Door #1 of the time machine and send him to the Island, where he already knows that Sawyer will kill him. Locke is going to "bring him here" to the Island... he just hasn't done it yet. When he is on the "outside" in the present, why is he going to do this? Because he has to, because it is destiny... for on the Island, it has already happened. You know Locke loves destiny.

I could go on and on. Why is there a zoo with polar bears? ANSWER #9: The animals are on the Island for testing the effects of the various paradoxes associated with time travel. Perhaps another reason is that by keeping and preserving endangered animals, like polar bears, within this bubble in the past, there is a resource for their recovery should they become extinct in the future. Consider it a Noah's Ark.

How do the Others know so much about the passengers of Flight 815? ANSWER
#10: The Others have had perhaps years, with Dharma Industries in the present timeline at Door #1, to research each of the individuals, and transmit this information to the Island. To the audience and the survivors of 815, it seemed like the Others instantly knew about them. However, it likely required years of research to compile the files.

There are still mysteries that remain, and stories that we do not know how they will play out. With this explanation, though, the behavior of the Others is understood. They must protect the timeline AT ALL COSTS. That makes them seem evil to the survivors of 815, but in reality their intentions are to prevent catastrophe.

There are many other stories I haven't touched, but they are all consistent with this basic theory. This includes Desmond's apparent "time loop" he is experiencing, and many others.

So there it is. Or, I'm out of my mind. Time will tell.

Steve
Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
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26. "it's obviously based on The Forbidden Planet and The Tempest"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fact 1: ancient civilization used to live on the island but have disappeared. see the four stone statue and the stonework glimpsed in Ben's secret closet.

fact 2: there is a big monster roaming about the island, that cannot be anything mechanized or biological, but when one character got up close he did see faces/images floating about in it.

fact 3: all the dharma people have fucked off too, except Ben, his former wife - who says 'you have no idea what he is capable of' - and his daughter. infact didn't Ben gas all the dharma people.

anyway, plot of the forbidden planet: ancient civilization once existed on a planet now only inhabited by one man and his wife and daughter. there were other people that arrived with him but they were wiped out by a monster. some newcomers arrive and are also attacked by the monster. but the survivor lets them stay at their own peril, and shows them a secret room behind a bookcase in his study that leads to an underground lab and then to a vast machine created by the ancient civilization. he says this machine lets the mind fabricate physical objects from pure energy, although even with his huge IQ - boosted by one of the alien machines - he, as a human, can only muster a small object like a doll. blablabla monster keeps attacking, the newcomes break into his lab and does the IQ boost and works out that the monster is actually being generated by the survivor's subconscious mind. it is hatred/jealousy/rage/greed manifest. subconscious mind is much more powerful than the conscious.

as for the tempest, well it's quite similar but one important detail was that the survivor was a duke usurped by his brother and sent into exile on an island. he uses newfound magical powers to shipwreck his brother there too and exact revenge on him. whitmore is probably ben's brother, and he's mad that ben kept the island for himself rather than share it with whitmore when they were both in dharma.

so like, most wierd things that happen can be explained by activity of the subconscious mind. clearly anyone on the island to greater and lesser extents interacts with this 'magical' force. ben can summon the smoke monster. walt read about polar bears then one appeared. locke and rose can heal themselves. figures from each person's past can appear on the island. ben wants locke to kill his father, when he refuses he's annoyed because locke has failed to understand that all he'd really be doing was killing off an unhealthy part of his own subconscious.

there's also something about time travel, which will be a distraction for the most part but will probably be used to explain why there are so many strange coincidences in the character's past - again, the subconscious is 'generating' them or something like that

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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paragon216
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Sun May-11-08 09:15 AM

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28. "they take bits from everything"
In response to Reply # 26


          

especially the wizard of oz
and some have said that there are plenty of similarities to the movie zardoz
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kbGVIdA3dx0

the heiroglyphs on the stone work in bens closet have been deciphered , they allude to some kind of means of protection

the fact that ben hit a switch to activate the smoke monster means that its just apart of the dharma initiative's experiments or their watchdog

40 pirates and hundreds of slaves were also on the island


>
> but when one
>character got up close he did see faces/images floating about
>in it.

when was this?

>
>- who says 'you have no idea what he is
>capable of'
>
who is his former wife?

this describes the plot of every stranded scifi joint even planet of the apes

you think this is all in people's minds?
cuz ben is obviously duping the others into thinking they're following jacob


it seems their are three factions: ben, jacob and whidmore and they are all fighting to recruit locke

whidmore and ben apparently have some understanding because they cant kill each other

ben and jacob aren't cool anymore, bens spinal problem, he doesnt have dreams, the use of technology, shooting locke etc

whidmore and jacob aren't cool cuz he wants to torch the island

ben was a kid in dharma and whidmore apparently had some ownership cuz he wasnt a chosen one?

if everyone could heal themselves jack wouldnt have fallen out and all the pregnant women wouldnt die

>


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
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Sun May-11-08 10:10 AM

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31. "RE: they take bits from everything"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>especially the wizard of oz

wait... how is it remotely similar to the wizard of oz?? like there's no way that's going to explain it

>and some have said that there are plenty of similarities to
>the movie zardoz
>http://youtube.com/watch?v=kbGVIdA3dx0
>
>the heiroglyphs on the stone work in bens closet have been
>deciphered , they allude to some kind of means of protection
>
>the fact that ben hit a switch to activate the smoke monster
>means that its just apart of the dharma initiative's
>experiments or their watchdog
>

a) why the heck would dharma write stuff in hieroglyphics. obviously the hieros come from something more ancient
b) when did ben 'flip a switch?' he went to some underground lair. the monster is obviously not a 'security system' or a 'watchdog' - that's plainly ridiculous. the security system is that fence that fries your brains

>40 pirates and hundreds of slaves were also on the island
>

when did this appear?

>
>>
>> but when one
>>character got up close he did see faces/images floating
>about
>>in it.
>
>when was this?
>

season one or season two. either charlie or locke out in the jungle somewhere can't remember exactly

>>
>>- who says 'you have no idea what he is
>>capable of'
>>
>who is his former wife?
>

rousseau. mother of his daughter anyway

>this describes the plot of every stranded scifi joint even
>planet of the apes
>

nope... it's really specific. ancient people, modern expedition, both wiped out, except for one man and his daughter and wife. remember the speech to locke ben gave about a box that creates anything you can imagine, that's directly from the forbidden planet


>you think this is all in people's minds?
>cuz ben is obviously duping the others into thinking they're
>following jacob
>
>
>it seems their are three factions: ben, jacob and whidmore and
>they are all fighting to recruit locke
>
>whidmore and ben apparently have some understanding because
>they cant kill each other
>
>ben and jacob aren't cool anymore, bens spinal problem, he
>doesnt have dreams, the use of technology, shooting locke etc
>
>whidmore and jacob aren't cool cuz he wants to torch the
>island
>
>ben was a kid in dharma and whidmore apparently had some
>ownership cuz he wasnt a chosen one?
>
>if everyone could heal themselves jack wouldnt have fallen out
>and all the pregnant women wouldnt die
>

i haven't seen the latest episode yet it's on tonight.
but the reason not everyone is being healed is because everyone's subconscious is different. and you can't control your subconscious like that.
i suspect whidmore and ben can't kill each other cause killing your brother would fuck up your subconscious, but then again we'll just need to wait and see

but one thing i do know, basically the only way you can explain all the wierdness
- smoke monster
- coincidences
- healing
- polar bears and stuff
- disappearing ancient civilization
- dead people or vanished people appearing on the island
is through the subconscious mind's interaction with some energy-to-matter forbidden planet type technology

most theories forget about the four toed statue... and that's the most obvious clue that it's a Forbidden Planet type story

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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paragon216
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33. "henry gale"
In response to Reply # 31


          

was the person ben claimed to be in the beginning, and that his hot air ballon from Minnesota was swept to the island ala the actual wizard in oz

ben has the book in his library

and a couple of the episode titles reference pulling back the 'curtain' to see who is really behind it all...both locke and ben reference it

all the survivors are akin to dorothy, they ain't in kansas any more

zardoz is a play on wiZARDofOZ

ben obviously has access to lots of materials, i mean the nigga speaks arabic and has like thirty passports he didnt know all that stuff when he came to the island as an 8yr old child

i don't doubt that the heiros are old but they were on the door been opened....and he obviously summoned the smoke monster, he ran away while addressing keamy, 'hit the switch' (or whatever he did) and told everybody to stay on the treeline so as to not get bit by his attack dog -- the smoke monster

in addition, if i recall juliette knew how to avoid being attacked by the smoke monster too

when have u seen one of the others get attacked by the monster?

the black rock pirate ship, where they got the dynamite from

rousseau was a scientist/rescuer who came to the island pregnant, her lover and crew went crazy from the affects of the island and ben stole the baby from her

ben has a fascination with babies and pregnancy, his mother died giving birth to him

but like richard alpert said the others ain't on that shit, they have other work to do

that whole ancient thing is getting dudes off track, there are only acient ruins on the island almost everything is fairly modern
i'll check into the forbidden planet reference

but the dharma experiments explain damn near all the odd shit goin on, alperts agelessness, the polar bears, magnetic waves

and u cant discount the time travel piece cuz thats central to the whole show

desmond and ben were mos def time travellin and i suspect that is why people cant be killed, thats why hugo and jack were sayin they have to go back....they realized they fucked things up by leaving, they may not even be in their own reality

also suspect that michael is the one in the coffin that jack went to see...he's neither friend nor family, he was from ny and died in la in a black part of town....jack realized that if michael died then he can now die too so he was about to commit suicide when the car crash happened

and u can rarely believe anything ben says....he has been bullshitting the others for years


>i haven't seen the latest episode yet it's on tonight.
>but the reason not everyone is being healed is because
>everyone's subconscious is different. and you can't control
>your subconscious like that.

i dont buy that explanation on healing cuz locke didnt do anything special nor did rosa, no one else got healed

how can whidmore and ben be brothers?
if they are it has to do with reincarnation, cuz that's basically what richard tested locke for, just like they do with the dhali llamas, if the kid picks the items owned by the recently deceased llama he becomes the incarnate

which brings me to the spirits flying around and why everyone is fighting over this damn island

looking for hosts: this could explain christian shepherd's appearance, cuz if jacob is so powerful why does he need help?

some have said that ben has confined jacob to the cabin with some kind of circle of sand, the same sand locke found when he went there and the sand that was in the vial that alpert showed to young locke

whidmore is rich already what does he want from the island, i suspect he wants longevity

ben probably wants his mom resurrected or saved before she dies in childbirth

the polar bears are a part of the dharma experiment...we havent seen any in a minute

all ancient civilizations disappear that's why they're ancient, there's no mystery here

the coincidences are the real question, everyone is connected in so many ways...the woman jack saved in the flash forward has the same last name as rosa's husband

i equate the four-toed statue with colossus, one of the original seven wonders, i think it was built on some island...was supposed to have been ginormous but disappeared without a trace




Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
18637 posts
Sun May-11-08 07:33 PM

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37. "RE: henry gale"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

i just realized i was two episodes behind you guys... the last one i saw was the jack's appendix removal

anyway, the way i see lost is
- lots of REFERENCES to stuff, lots of stuff, but not necessarily anything more than nods
- lots of POTENTIALLY WACK explanations for plot happenings, which hopefully are red herrings

the whole Dharma thing - you could say Dharma were this all powerful organization capable of creating amazing monsters just to watch their backyard and conducting fascinating experiments... but, i mean, what the fuck happened to them. Dharma is obviously a sham to me... they're not the real force behind the island, they're just some people who happened upon it before Ben dispensed with them. all 'mysticism' and 'fate' explanations also smack of wackness - the explanation needs to be a decent science fiction idea.

now, in the Forbidden Planet, the loan survivor (except for his wife and daughter) wiped out his colleagues (fellow explorers) by accessing ancient alien technology that interfaced with his mind. one device boosted his IQ enormously, another device allowed him to fabricate things with his mind (though it was only his subconscious mind that was strong enough to create anything drastic). this sounds like Ben to me - not an a supervillain or anything, but very smart, knows many languages somehow, and has the overbearing confidence of everyone who knows him ("these people are going to war with Ben... and Ben's going to win").

and another thing that just occurred to me, y'all know how the 'subconscious' thing all started with Sigmund Freud, right? and Freud's big thing was infant sexuality and the oepidus complex, that was his first conjecture about what the subconscious contains. well, i was thinking how all the mothers were dying (p.s. was it only baby girls who were a problem? cause that would fit perfectly with the electra complex) - i suspect it's due to the minds of the unconscious babies. that's why everyone thinks claire's baby is so special... like he's born without any evil in his subconscious... maybe he's some sort of potential jesus

>was the person ben claimed to be in the beginning, and that
>his hot air ballon from Minnesota was swept to the island ala
>the actual wizard in oz
>
>ben has the book in his library
>
>and a couple of the episode titles reference pulling back the
>'curtain' to see who is really behind it all...both locke and
>ben reference it
>
>all the survivors are akin to dorothy, they ain't in kansas
>any more
>
>zardoz is a play on wiZARDofOZ
>
>ben obviously has access to lots of materials, i mean the
>nigga speaks arabic and has like thirty passports he didnt
>know all that stuff when he came to the island as an 8yr old
>child
>
>i don't doubt that the heiros are old but they were on the
>door been opened....and he obviously summoned the smoke
>monster, he ran away while addressing keamy, 'hit the switch'
>(or whatever he did) and told everybody to stay on the
>treeline so as to not get bit by his attack dog -- the smoke
>monster
>
>in addition, if i recall juliette knew how to avoid being
>attacked by the smoke monster too
>
>when have u seen one of the others get attacked by the
>monster?
>
>the black rock pirate ship, where they got the dynamite from
>
>rousseau was a scientist/rescuer who came to the island
>pregnant, her lover and crew went crazy from the affects of
>the island and ben stole the baby from her
>
>ben has a fascination with babies and pregnancy, his mother
>died giving birth to him
>
>but like richard alpert said the others ain't on that shit,
>they have other work to do
>
>that whole ancient thing is getting dudes off track, there are
>only acient ruins on the island almost everything is fairly
>modern
>i'll check into the forbidden planet reference
>
>but the dharma experiments explain damn near all the odd shit
>goin on, alperts agelessness, the polar bears, magnetic waves
>
>and u cant discount the time travel piece cuz thats central to
>the whole show
>
>desmond and ben were mos def time travellin and i suspect that
>is why people cant be killed, thats why hugo and jack were
>sayin they have to go back....they realized they fucked things
>up by leaving, they may not even be in their own reality
>
>also suspect that michael is the one in the coffin that jack
>went to see...he's neither friend nor family, he was from ny
>and died in la in a black part of town....jack realized that
>if michael died then he can now die too so he was about to
>commit suicide when the car crash happened
>
>and u can rarely believe anything ben says....he has been
>bullshitting the others for years
>
>
>>i haven't seen the latest episode yet it's on tonight.
>>but the reason not everyone is being healed is because
>>everyone's subconscious is different. and you can't control
>>your subconscious like that.
>
>i dont buy that explanation on healing cuz locke didnt do
>anything special nor did rosa, no one else got healed
>
>how can whidmore and ben be brothers?
>if they are it has to do with reincarnation, cuz that's
>basically what richard tested locke for, just like they do
>with the dhali llamas, if the kid picks the items owned by the
>recently deceased llama he becomes the incarnate
>
>which brings me to the spirits flying around and why everyone
>is fighting over this damn island
>
>looking for hosts: this could explain christian shepherd's
>appearance, cuz if jacob is so powerful why does he need
>help?
>
>some have said that ben has confined jacob to the cabin with
>some kind of circle of sand, the same sand locke found when he
>went there and the sand that was in the vial that alpert
>showed to young locke
>
>whidmore is rich already what does he want from the island, i
>suspect he wants longevity
>
>ben probably wants his mom resurrected or saved before she
>dies in childbirth
>
>the polar bears are a part of the dharma experiment...we
>havent seen any in a minute
>
>all ancient civilizations disappear that's why they're
>ancient, there's no mystery here
>
>the coincidences are the real question, everyone is connected
>in so many ways...the woman jack saved in the flash forward
>has the same last name as rosa's husband
>
>i equate the four-toed statue with colossus, one of the
>original seven wonders, i think it was built on some
>island...was supposed to have been ginormous but disappeared
>without a trace
>
>
>
>
>Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full
>of white people

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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paragon216
Charter member
5565 posts
Sun May-11-08 07:59 PM

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38. "The Invention of Morel"
In response to Reply # 37


          

this book appears in the eggtown episode, its bigger than just nods, i suspect that the monster has a mechanical/scifi explanation like almost everything else

The Invention of Morel, sometimes translated as Morel's Invention, is a science fiction novel by Adolfo Bioy Casares published in 1940

The fugitive starts a diary after tourists arrive on the desert island where he is hiding. Although he considers their presence a miracle, he is afraid they will turn him in to the authorities. He retreats to the swamps while they take over the museum on top of the hill where he used to live. Through this diary we learn that the fugitive is a writer from Venezuela sentenced to life in prison. He believes he is on the (fictional) island of Villings, a part of the Ellice Islands (now Tuvalu), but is not sure. All he knows is that the island is the focus of a strange disease whose symptoms are similar to radiation poisoning.

Among the tourists is a woman who sees the sunset everyday from the cliff on the west side of the island. He spies on her and while doing so falls in love with her. She and another man, a bearded tennis player called Morel who visits her frequently, speak French among themselves. Morel calls her Faustine. The fugitive decides to approach her, but she doesn't react to him. He assumes she is ignoring him, but his encounters with the other tourists have the same result. Nobody on the island notices him. He points out that the conversations between Faustine and Morel repeat every week and fears he is going crazy.


First edition cover with an illustration of FaustineAll of a sudden the tourists vanish. The fugitive returns to the museum to investigate and finds no evidence of people being there during his absence. He attributes the experience to food poisoning, but the tourists reappear that night. They have come out of nowhere and yet they talk as if they have been there for a while. He watches them closely while still avoiding direct contact and notices more strange things. In the aquarium he encounters identical copies of the dead fish he found on his day of arrival. During a day at the pool, he sees the tourists jump to shake off the cold when the heat is unbearable. The strangest thing he notices is the presence of two suns and two moons in the sky.

He comes up with all sort of theories about what is happening on the island, but finds out the truth when Morel tells the tourists he has been recording their actions of the past week with a machine of his invention capable of reproducing reality. He claims the recording will capture their souls, and through looping they will relive that week forever and he will spend eternity with the woman he loves. Although Morel doesn't mention her by name, the fugitive is sure he is talking about Faustine.

After hearing that the people recorded on previous experiments are dead, one of the tourists guesses correctly they will die, too. The meeting ends abruptly as Morel leaves in anger. The fugitive picks up Morel's cue cards and learns the machine keeps running because the wind and tide feed it with an endless supply of kinetic energy. He understands that the phenomena of the two suns and two moons are a consequence of what happens when the recording overlaps reality--one is the real sun and the other one represents the sun's position at recording time. The other strange things that happen on the island have a similar explanation.

He imagines all the possible uses for Morel's invention, including the creation of a second model to resurrect people. Despite this he feels repulsion for the "new kind of photographs" that inhabit the island, but as time goes by he accepts their existence as something better than his own. He learns how to operate the machine and inserts himself into the recording so it looks like he and Faustine are in love, even though she might have slept with Alec and Haynes. This bothers him, but he is confident it won't matter in the eternity they will spend together. At least he is sure she is not Morel's lover.

On the diary's final entry the fugitive describes how he is waiting for his soul to pass onto the recording while dying. He asks a favor to the man who will invent a machine capable of merging souls based on Morel's invention. He wants the inventor to search for them and let him enter Faustine's conscience as an act of mercy.





>i just realized i was two episodes behind you guys... the
>last one i saw was the jack's appendix removal
>
>anyway, the way i see lost is
>- lots of REFERENCES to stuff, lots of stuff, but not
>necessarily anything more than nods
>- lots of POTENTIALLY WACK explanations for plot happenings,
>which hopefully are red herrings
>
>the whole Dharma thing - you could say Dharma were this all
>powerful organization capable of creating amazing monsters
>just to watch their backyard and conducting fascinating
>experiments... but, i mean, what the fuck happened to them.
>Dharma is obviously a sham to me... they're not the real force
>behind the island, they're just some people who happened upon
>it before Ben dispensed with them. all 'mysticism' and 'fate'
>explanations also smack of wackness - the explanation needs to
>be a decent science fiction idea.
>
>now, in the Forbidden Planet, the loan survivor (except for
>his wife and daughter) wiped out his colleagues (fellow
>explorers) by accessing ancient alien technology that
>interfaced with his mind. one device boosted his IQ
>enormously, another device allowed him to fabricate things
>with his mind (though it was only his subconscious mind that
>was strong enough to create anything drastic). this sounds
>like Ben to me - not an a supervillain or anything, but very
>smart, knows many languages somehow, and has the overbearing
>confidence of everyone who knows him ("these people are going
>to war with Ben... and Ben's going to win").
>
>and another thing that just occurred to me, y'all know how the
>'subconscious' thing all started with Sigmund Freud, right?
>and Freud's big thing was infant sexuality and the oepidus
>complex, that was his first conjecture about what the
>subconscious contains. well, i was thinking how all the
>mothers were dying (p.s. was it only baby girls who were a
>problem? cause that would fit perfectly with the electra
>complex) - i suspect it's due to the minds of the unconscious
>babies. that's why everyone thinks claire's baby is so
>special... like he's born without any evil in his
>subconscious... maybe he's some sort of potential jesus



Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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30. "one of the dharma sites was called the tempest"
In response to Reply # 26


          


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paragon216
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39. "dude, the monster has been explained"
In response to Reply # 26


          

in exodus1:

Jack asked Rousseau what chased them and she referred to it as a "security system". Jack asked her what it does, and she told him, "Its purpose is that of any security system: to protect something." Kate then asked what it protects and Rousseau replied, "The Island."

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paragon216
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40. "Cerberus"
In response to Reply # 39


          

its called cerberus, as in the mythical watchdog
it comes out of cv vents around the island
it can also take other forms like with eko's brother yemi


In Greek mythology, Cerberus or Kerberos was the hound of Hades, a monstrous three-headed dog with a snake for a tail and snakes down his back like a mane, whose analogs in other cultures are hellhounds. Other hell hounds included Orthus, his two-headed brother. Cerberus guarded the gate to Hades and ensured that spirits of the dead could enter, but none could exit (additionally, no living person was to come into Hades). Among his siblings are Chimera and the Hydra. He is the offspring of Echidna and Typhon. In Dante's Inferno, he is described as having a human head. This symbolizes the possibility of Cerberus being more human than animal.

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The Damaja
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41. "ok but that doesn't explain what it actually IS"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

how it came into being, how it seems to peer into peoples minds and how it had images floating about inside it

if it was a dharma invention surely it would be some sort of nano-tech cloud (which hte writers have ruled out)

i say it's generated in much the same way as The Forbidden Planet monster. it's job was also to 'protect the island' - driven by Dr Morbius's subconscious desire to keep it all to himself, so it goes after outsiders

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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paragon216
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42. "the island is obviously not working properly"
In response to Reply # 41


          

i believe, like u said what happens is based largely on the thoughts of the islanders

info from the blast door alluded to the smoke monster malfunctioning

and locke's dream with horace kept looping like it was skipping

im starting to think that there isnt anyone/anything directing the events on the island just a mish mash of peoples memories, thoughts, urges, fears interacting with cabin fever/island phenomena and dharma initiative left overs

  

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Kevan
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44. "I thought this was a theory and not proved yet"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

i saw this on a LOST board

  

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paragon216
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46. "the producer"
In response to Reply # 44


          

said that it was yemi...and yemi basically told eko he wasnt his brother....ben lied about not knowing what it was just like juliet lied about it when she saved her and kate behind the barrier

plus ben summoned it to the barracks


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Kevan
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53. "I don't know how you all remember all these things"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

i gotta go back and refresh

but first ok i know ben can summon it, the yemi thing i missed but the name Cerebus, how do we know thats its name or whats its based on?

  

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paragon216
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55. "its written on the blast wall hologram thing"
In response to Reply # 53


          

and its also in the video game and other lost tie-in stuff


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paragon216
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29. "hanso foundation"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The Hanso Foundation is a fictional foundation in the Lost television series. It was formed by arms purveyor Alvar Hanso, who turned his attention from "keeping the world safe through the development of sophisticated weapons systems" to focus instead on the development of new technologies to "create a brighter future for all humanity." Nearly all information about the Foundation is drawn from its Web site, thehansofoundation.org, with further background revealed as part of the alternate reality game, the Lost Experience.

The Hanso Foundation, through its funding of the Dharma Initiative, was involved in the construction of facilities on the island depicted in Lost.

According to a mission statement on the Hanso website, "The Hanso Foundation stands at the vanguard of social and scientific research for the advancement of the human race. For forty years, the foundation has offered grants to worthy experiments designed to further the evolution of the human race and provide technological solutions to the most pressing problems of our time. The Hanso Foundation: a commitment to encouraging excellence in science and technology and furthering the cause of human development."

The Foundation funded many projects, including the Educational Outreach Imperative, Institute for Genomic Advancement, Mathematical Forecasting Initiative, Worldwide Wellness and Prevention Development Program, and the Life-Extension Project. The Life-Extension Project worked on initiatives such as the life-extension of an orangutan named "Joop" celebrating its 105th birthday. It also provided financial backing for the Dharma Initiative on islands in the South Pacific. ("Joop" is the name of an orangutan appearing in the Jules Verne novel The Mysterious Island, which is about a group of castaways on a strange Pacific island.)

The Foundation has offices in Copenhagen, Vík, Seoul, Zanzibar, and Santa Barbara. The Alvar Hanso Cancer Center was constructed in Geneva, Switzerland.

The greeting "Namaste" is used by the organization's members, including Dr. Marvin Candle in each of the Hanso Foundation orientation films.

Alvar Hanso, a Danish weapons purveyor, created the Foundation through financial backing. Other executives ran the company such as Dr. Thomas Mittelwerk, the chief technologist and trusted righthand adviser to Hanso.

During the Lost Experience, documents and other information were released to suggest that the management of the Foundation was scandalous and, in some cases, criminal. For example, some executives were revealed to have falsely reported the extent of their education in their biographies. One executive was caught in an extramarital affair. Others defended tobacco companies, nuclear power plants and an oil company that dumped chemical waste in Florida. Another executive was sentenced to eight years for insider trading which he subsidized through a retirement fund for a health care union.

The Hanso Foundation was first mentioned in the Lost season 2 episode "Orientation". After discussing DHARMA Initiative founders Karen and Gerald DeGroot, the orientation film refers to "reclusive Danish industrialist and munitions magnate Alvar Hanso, whose financial backing made their dream of a multi-purpose social science research facility a reality."

In the film Mission Impossible 3, the closing credits thank the Hanso Foundation. Also, the logo on the building from which the Rabbit's Foot is stolen from is the same logo as that of "Paik Heavy Industries", a company owned by Sun Kwon's father.

http://lxicon.com/
http://www.thehansofoundation.org/adkahdskja2897429834ahjkncawuye32782374/
http://www.thehansofoundation.org/
Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Kevan
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45. "Hans O(ersted) father of electromagnetism"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

I read this theory and to me it seems to explain many things, maybe not all but mucho gems - I've linked it as it's probably got spoilers and there are mad screencaps
http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic2.php?t=3377

  

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paragon216
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48. "i can buy some of that"
In response to Reply # 45


          

except that it never happened...this would suck so bad if it all turned out to be adream

Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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Kevan
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49. "i don't buy that either"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

i think the creators debunked the it was all a dream and purgatory scenarios anyway

  

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paragon216
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32. "is there an amelia earhart connection?"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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34. "Brother themes"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun May-11-08 01:14 PM by paragon216

          

the whole dueling brothers theme was intriguing and somewhat plausible...looked into it some more and came up with these tidbits

gary toup, an author, was one of the first to die on the island, he was sucked into one of the jet turbines after the crash

his new novel was called BAD TWIN, hugo and sawyer both read it and jack threw it in the fire...here's the summary

"Sometimes evil has a familiar face..."

Paul Artisan, P.I. is a new version of an old breed -- a righter of wrongs, someone driven to get to the bottom of things. Too bad his usual cases are of the boring malpractice and fraud variety. Until now.

His new gig turns on the disappearance of one of a pair of twins, adult scions of a rich but tragedy-prone family. The missing twin -- a charismatic poster-boy for irresponsibility -- has spent his life daring people to hate him, punishing himself endlessly for his screw-ups and misdeeds. The other twin -- Artisan's client -- is dutiful and resentful in equal measure, bewildered that his "other half" could have turned out so badly, and wracked by guilt at his inability to reform him. He has a more practical reason, as well, for wanting his brother found: their crazy father, in failing health and with guilty secrets of his own, will not divide the family fortune until both siblings are accounted for.

But it isn't just a fortune that's at stake here. Truth itself is up for grabs, as the detective's discoveries seem to challenge everything we think we know about identity, and human nature, and family. As Artisan journeys across the globe to track down the bad twin, he seems to have moved into a mirror-world where friends and enemies have a way of looking very much alike. The P.I. may have his long-awaited chance to put his courage and ideals to the test, but if he doesn't get to the bottom of this case soon, it could very well cost him his life.

"Troup's long-awaited Bad Twin is a suspenseful novel that touches on many powerful themes, including the consequence of vengeance, the power of redemption, and where to turn when all seems lost."


also the story of jacob in the bible...


Jacob , also known as Israel, is the third Biblical patriarch. Jacob was the son of Isaac, the grandson of Abraham, twin brother of Esau(seems like the movie theme we talked about before also ties in with 'Bad Twin').

Jacob had twelve sons by his two wives, Leah and Rachel, and his two concubines, Bilhah and Zilpah. He thus sired the twelve Tribes of Israel. His sons were Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Joseph, and Benjamin(a refernce to benjamin linus perhaps?)

He and Esau were markedly different in appearance and behaviour. Esau was a ruddy hunter, while Jacob was a gentle man who "dwelled in tents," interpreted by many biblical commentators as a mark of his studiousness and reserved personality(i think this explains the test locke was given pretty well, and he obviously chose the swashbuckling adventurer path as evidenced by his argument with his teacher, going on the walkabout, and his picture of Sir Richard Francis Burton in his locker as a kid).

Isaac prayed to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren; and the LORD answered him and Rebekah his wife conceived.
But the children struggled together within her; and she said, "If it is so, why then am I this way?" So she went to inquire of the LORD.
The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger."
When her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.

When the boys grew up, Esau became a skillful hunter, a man of the field, but Jacob was a peaceful man, living in tents.

Seizing an opportunity, Jacob informed Esau that he would sell him some lentil soup which he had just cooked, in exchange for the birthright which belonged to Esau as the older brother. Esau agreed, commenting, "I am going to die — what is this birthright to me?" The fact that Esau would sell his familial rights in exchange for soup indicates the disdain in which he held his fathers' traditions. In the words of the Bible, "Esau despised the birthright."

As Esau went out to the hunt, she instructed Jacob to fetch her two goats so that she could prepare a tasty meal for his father, and commanded him to bring the meal to Isaac to receive the blessing in his brother's stead. Jacob protested that his father might notice the substitution through touch, since Esau was hairy and he was smooth-skinned. Rebecca told him not to worry, and placed hairy goatskins over his neck and arms.

disguised, Jacob went into his father's tent. Isaac was surprised that he had returned so soon from the "hunt." "Who are you, my son?" Isaac asked suspiciously. "I am Esau your firstborn," Jacob replied (the Hebrew words, however, can be divided into two statements: "I" and "Esau is your firstborn"). Isaac was still suspicious and asked to feel him, since Esau was hairy. The goatskins seemed to fool him, although he maintained, "The voice is the voice of Jacob, but the hands are the hands of Esau." Nevertheless, Isaac blessed him and sent him on his way.

As soon as Jacob left the tent, Esau arrived and exposed the deception. Isaac was shaken, but he affirmed that Jacob would indeed be blessed. To Esau's pathetic entreaties, he agreed to give Esau a lesser blessing. Esau exclaimed, "Is that why he is called Jacob, because he has deceived me these two times?" (Genesis 27:35), another play on Jacob's name. Then Esau swore to himself that he would kill Jacob in revenge as soon as his father was dead.

Jacob experienced a vision in which he saw a ladder reaching into heaven with angels going up and down it, a vision that is commonly referred to as Jacob's Ladder. From the top of the ladder he heard the voice of God, who repeated many of the blessings upon him.

Various interpretations of biblical passages suggest that Jacob's favoritism of Rachel over Leah passed over to their children. Some commentators feel that this rivalry played an important role in the later attempt on Joseph's life by his half-brothers

Rachel went into labor and died as she gave birth to her second—and Jacob's twelfth—son, Benjamin(obvious). Jacob buried her and erected a monument over her grave, which is located just outside Bethlehem.


Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
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36. "namesakes"
In response to Reply # 0


          

John Locke is also the name of a famous philosopher who investigated epistemology and metaphysics. These are two fields which Locke (of "Lost") can relate to.

In addition to that, Locke, the philosopher, met in Oxford in 1666 the prominent English politician, Anthony Cooper, who had come to Oxford seeking treatment for a liver infection. Locke persuaded Cooper to undergo an operation that saved his life. In the series, Anthony Cooper comes to Locke with a kidney problem as Locke donates his kidney in order to save him.

Desmond David Hume, David Hume was an 18th-century Scottish philosopher, economist, and historian, considered among the most important figures in the history of Western philosophy and the Scottish Enlightenment.
Hume was heavily influenced by empiricists John Locke and George Berkeley



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Kevan
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50. "What's up with Miles when he was in the dead grandson's room?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

found this and seems interesting:

When Miles is at the old lady’s home, to talk to her dead grandson, they focus on the pictures on the wall. Twice. At first I thought it was so we could recognize the person in the photos. Upon rewinding, I’ve found it to be so that we notice the change in frames. Miles goes upstairs, and when he comes back down, the pictures are in different frames. What happened in those five minutes he went upstairs? The “bleeding” effect I was talking about.

http://ratednfornasty.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/ultimate-lost-theory-evidence-screencaps/

screencaps a little after 1/2way down

i don't know about the time bleed theory but the switched decor is definitely noteable

  

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paragon216
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54. "WHOA"
In response to Reply # 50


          

"The pilot of the boaties recognizes that the captain underwater is NOT who they think it is, because he isnt’ wearing a wedding ring. He also notes that he was supposed to be the pilot. In the alternate reality…he IS the pilot. This is his own dead body he is looking at."

that's iiiill


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Kevan
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56. "whoa is right"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

though i thought alternate universes were shot down by the producers. though everything i've seen involving the freighter and the physicist says otherwise. definitely interesting.

  

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paragon216
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62. "i watched it again"
In response to Reply # 56


          

and the dead guy looks just like lapidus and nothing like the other guy

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paragon216
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52. "NEW SHIT"
In response to Reply # 0


          

apparently there will be a flash forward of the press conference after the rescue

walt is coming back

sawyer aint dead

some of the dharma cats are still alive

there's supposed to be some big meaningful kiss scene in the finale

next season will deal with why they must go back

last season will deal with what happens when they do



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paragon216
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57. "mathew abbadon"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon May-12-08 03:48 PM by paragon216

          

abbadon means guardian of the abyss, and refers to a dark angel in revelations

he seemed to get locke to the island

but wasnt aware that there were survivors, cuz he asked hurley

also the enhanced s4 ep2 says the chalkboard is a clue to what he wants

http://forum.lostpedia.com/showpost.php?p=479933&postcount=3

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paragon216
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58. "WALT shit gets deep"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon May-12-08 04:30 PM by paragon216

          

http://www.movieweb.com/video/V07LpYeuZl4oPm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pysZf-jyWQ0&feature=related



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Kevan
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59. "the Walt aspect is interesting, but you don't believe the Frogurt angle ..."
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

i don't buy Frogurt being Jacob

but that guy is one of my elementary substitute teacher's nephews and it looks like he blew up. from people under the stairs to LOST. nice.

  

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paragon216
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61. "negative on the frogurt"
In response to Reply # 59


          

whats on my mind now.....how does jin die? cuz in the flash forward sun and hurley visited his grave.....there are supposed to be 6 survivors and 2 dead, so who else dies?

and there's supposed to be some surprise shocker kiss scene and i can't imagine who that could be


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disco dj
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64. "I don't think he actually dies..."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

all we saw was a tombstone, right?

Maybe he stays behind so that Sun and The Baby can go. I don't know how to explain it, but maybe they realize it's best for him to stay behind ( drama with Sun's father or whatever, I dunno...).


All I'm saying is, we know he didn't leave the island. We don't know he's dead. Maybe Sun told the rest of the world he died.

______________



http://www.windimoto.com


http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

http://wallpapershi.net/wallpapers/2012/01/boba-fett-star-wars-star-wars-boba-fett-movie-anime-1080x1920.jpg

  

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paragon216
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65. "we know that two die"
In response to Reply # 64


          

i assume it's him and claire, since they showed the tombstone...cuz no one cares if locke dies and sawyer stays on the island

  

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Kevan
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66. "I don't want Locke to die"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

even though he's been a bastard lately.

do we know two die or could that be to throw us off as disco pointed out (like a faked death or two)?

  

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disco dj
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67. "if I've learned ANYTHING, it's not to believe what I see, lol..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

.

______________



http://www.windimoto.com


http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

http://wallpapershi.net/wallpapers/2012/01/boba-fett-star-wars-star-wars-boba-fett-movie-anime-1080x1920.jpg

  

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paragon216
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68. "that's what jack testified to"
In response to Reply # 66


          

their story is that 8 survived the crash and two died on the island, which leads me to believe that they brought the bodies back

cuz they lied about the rest, why not lie about em all?

locke doesnt have a family to go back to(or a life for that matter), we know he didnt make it off the island and he's one of the only ones without a flash forward, it seems logical that he might sacrifice himself for the island...maybe thats his destiny

Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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paragon216
Charter member
5565 posts
Wed May-14-08 05:29 PM

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69. "on second thought"
In response to Reply # 68


          

it cant be claire, they cant publicly admit claire survived cuz kate is claimin aaron as her own son

one of claire's relatives is gonna be on the show tomorrow and that woulda caused a shit storm (if the relative knew she was pregnant)

Never come between a black man and his hustle in a room full of white people

  

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