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Subject: ""They are animals anyway so let them lose there souls"" Previous topic | Next topic
meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
296 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 11:01 AM

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""They are animals anyway so let them lose there souls""
Fri Apr-04-08 11:07 AM by meccau

          

black people, does this line from the godfather bother you?

I love godfather but that shit always rubs me off in the wrong way....


meh....

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
why?
Apr 04th 2008
1
RE: why?
Apr 04th 2008
2
      was the character racist or the writer?
Apr 04th 2008
4
           RE: was the character racist or the writer?
Apr 04th 2008
7
                no, the character WAS racist.
Apr 04th 2008
37
                the character was racist
Apr 04th 2008
46
You don't think people talk that way?
Apr 04th 2008
3
RE: You don't think people talk that way?
Apr 04th 2008
5
if it bothers you for any other reason than
Apr 04th 2008
6
      RE: if it bothers you for any other reason than
Apr 04th 2008
9
does that mean the poster should not be disturbed by the line?
Apr 04th 2008
8
      Not in the least bit
Apr 04th 2008
11
      we just gotta write our own shit.
Apr 04th 2008
12
      So if you wrote an Italian Mobster movie would you still have...
Apr 04th 2008
33
      RE: does that mean the poster should not be disturbed by the line?
Apr 04th 2008
15
      RE: does that mean the poster should not be disturbed by the line?
Apr 04th 2008
18
           So which reaction is truer?
Apr 04th 2008
21
           I think you know the answer to that
Apr 04th 2008
24
           You SHOULD be disturbed by the line but that should be....
Apr 04th 2008
32
                but sometimes it is awkward and jarring
Apr 04th 2008
34
                     How do you feel about black characters saying it...
Apr 04th 2008
35
                     i don't mind it in The Wire
Apr 04th 2008
40
                          I agree
Apr 04th 2008
44
                               yep.
Apr 04th 2008
50
                     I hear that
Apr 04th 2008
49
      what crawled up your ass?
Apr 04th 2008
45
           nothin'... just asking a question or two.
Apr 04th 2008
51
BTW, I saw the new Scorsese Rolling Stones concert film
Apr 04th 2008
10
RE: BTW, I saw the new Scorsese Rolling Stones concert film
Apr 04th 2008
14
      I was indeed being sarcastic, but I hear what you're saying
Apr 04th 2008
17
           RE: I was indeed being sarcastic, but I hear what you're saying
Apr 04th 2008
19
                Nothing wrong with asking the question
Apr 04th 2008
22
The character that said it was considered a bit of a clown
Apr 04th 2008
13
RE: The character that said it was considered a bit of a clown
Apr 04th 2008
16
      RE: The character that said it was considered a bit of a clown
Apr 04th 2008
20
      It's not a generalization
Apr 04th 2008
27
"you know who gets caught? nigger stick up men..."
Apr 04th 2008
23
but Cuban Linx told me Italian mobsters LIKE black people
Apr 04th 2008
25
LOL
Apr 04th 2008
26
Only the ones with slanted eyes who bang fat milanos
Apr 04th 2008
28
      What if they teach their seed Wu Tang karate?
Apr 04th 2008
29
      Which is more offensive?
Apr 04th 2008
31
      africans and chinks
Apr 04th 2008
47
'Unidentified Black Males'
Apr 04th 2008
30
they touch on it at the beginning of Commendatori as well
Apr 04th 2008
38
      yup, yup... good catch!
Apr 04th 2008
41
the line was about hipocrisy
Apr 04th 2008
36
I'll take 'he's a mob boss from the '50s, so why ask?' for $1000, Alex
Apr 04th 2008
39
Here's your daily double, put all your money on it.
Apr 04th 2008
42
      I'm sorry, chap. You're overthinking it.
Apr 04th 2008
43
           RE: I'm sorry, chap. You're overthinking it.
Apr 05th 2008
57
"their" not "there"
Apr 04th 2008
48
end post
Apr 05th 2008
52
Um, I think it is "they're"
Jul 26th 2008
66
      ^not the sharpest pencil.
Jul 26th 2008
67
           I must not be. Explain what I am missing
Jul 26th 2008
68
                What you're saying is "Let them lose they are souls."
Jul 26th 2008
69
                     Damnit, I did not notice the second "there"
Jul 26th 2008
70
Well I'm not an idiot so no, I'm not offended by it at all
Apr 05th 2008
53
RE: Well I'm not an idiot so no, I'm not offended by it at all
Apr 05th 2008
58
It comes down to what you want out of art
Apr 05th 2008
54
sorry... that's a bit of a copout.
Apr 05th 2008
55
RE: It comes down to what you want out of art
Apr 05th 2008
59
oh please
Apr 05th 2008
63
this post is confusing me
Apr 05th 2008
56
RE: this post is confusing me
Apr 05th 2008
60
      no prob, glad to be of help
Apr 05th 2008
61
another way to look at it
Apr 05th 2008
62
RE: another way to look at it
Apr 07th 2008
64
The most painful one of all of those to me is Reservoir Dogs.
Apr 07th 2008
65
That line was not about black people. It was about injustice to all of m...
Jul 27th 2008
71
RE: "They are animals anyway so let them lose there souls"
Jul 30th 2008
72

navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6388 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 11:14 AM

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1. "why?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
296 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 11:20 AM

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2. "RE: why?"
In response to Reply # 1


          

here's the answer.

How black people are depicted in films, great films, in one shape or another, it may be a fact that black people are animals, it may not be, but that statement was generalized in stereotype of a culture an italian screenwriter/novelist has no idea about.


if it doesn't bother you, well, that's cool but it's just an interesting statement that always hit me in the wrong way.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6388 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 11:27 AM

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4. "was the character racist or the writer?"
In response to Reply # 2


          

and if you think that isn't what the italian mob did you are out of your mind.

in fact, that scene shows that the drug problem in the black community doesn't have to do with the fact that black folk are somehow disposed to drug use (if you want to talk about stereotypes people possess there is one for you) but rather there was a strategic effort to actively push narcotics into the black community while keeping it out of others.

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
296 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 11:37 AM

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7. "RE: was the character racist or the writer?"
In response to Reply # 4


          

>and if you think that isn't what the italian mob did you are
>out of your mind.
>
>in fact, that scene shows that the drug problem in the black
>community doesn't have to do with the fact that black folk are
>somehow disposed to drug use (if you want to talk about
>stereotypes people possess there is one for you) but rather
>there was a strategic effort to actively push narcotics into
>the black community while keeping it out of others.
>
>


That's cool. I have an idea about that in society, that's what i like about the movie, it shows you the real movers and shakers and its factual. I'm not naive, i have a clear idea about it. But that statement does ring out another question and interesting observation. They settle to all work together to keep heron in the black community, even the corleone's, by spreading the percentage across the board.

until corleone murks them.

I guess the major thing about me is how people like the characters and really appeal to it but don't really look pass the style and really go into the substance of the character, story, and history (revisionist or otherwise)

So the character wasn't racist, the writer wasn't racist, they were all businessmen, but like krs-one said, why is that?

  

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James Peach
Member since Jul 27th 2007
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Fri Apr-04-08 05:20 PM

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37. "no, the character WAS racist."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

fka Invisiblist

www.jamespeach.org

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6388 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 10:00 PM

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46. "the character was racist"
In response to Reply # 7


          

he referred to black people as animals. if you don't think that is racist then I'm disturbed

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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DawgEatah
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Fri Apr-04-08 11:22 AM

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3. "You don't think people talk that way?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

First of all it's fiction.
Second of all, racism is real and GOOD fiction often reflects reality.
Third of all, they are CRIMINALS.
Fourth of all, it's fiction.




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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
296 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 11:30 AM

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5. "RE: You don't think people talk that way?"
In response to Reply # 3


          

>First of all it's fiction.
>Second of all, racism is real and GOOD fiction often reflects
>reality.
>Third of all, they are CRIMINALS.
>Fourth of all, it's fiction.
>
>
>
>
>http://www.avatarsdb.com/avatars/I_gotcha.gif
>http://fuck-your.blogspot.com
>http://www.myspace.com/insightclopediabrown
>http://www.myspace.com/dumhi
>http://www.youtube.com/group/okayplayer
>http://www.last.fm/user/Dawgeatah

sure. that's great. i understand that completely. The movie is fact and fiction. Generalizing statements are true in society, maybe that's why they say art imitates life. But is it bad to ask why? Or is it safe to not question why things are like that.

and your third statement about "they" being criminals....
obviously this movie shows that all sides that are evil can be good and vice versa....

remember the scene when michael said to his then wife to be about politicians not getting men killed? all men and women of ambition do get there dreams by a certain price, good or bad.


but to put that aside, this movie is great. check. acting is outstanding (even the little kid in the garden was tight). check. it is the perfect move. check.

but regardless, this statement still bothers me, nonetheless.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6388 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 11:36 AM

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6. "if it bothers you for any other reason than"
In response to Reply # 5


          

'there are some racist ass people in this world and the a large portion of the drug problem in black america is a result of that kind of thinking' then you are being overly sensitive. check.

it's fine to question these things. but if you don't, in your questioning, come up with the right answer (thus failing to distinguish between the messenger and the message) you are doing yourself a disservice

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
296 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 11:43 AM

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9. "RE: if it bothers you for any other reason than"
In response to Reply # 6


          

>'there are some racist ass people in this world and the a
>large portion of the drug problem in black america is a result
>of that kind of thinking' then you are being overly sensitive.
>check.
>
>it's fine to question these things. but if you don't, in your
>questioning, come up with the right answer (thus failing to
>distinguish between the messenger and the message) you are
>doing yourself a disservice


no it doesn't bother me in that way. It's how black people, whether seen or mentioned about are depicted in films. I like to manifest on that topic because in a sense, to let that pass by over and over is doing a disservice.

Oh, btw, i wasn't writing or responding in emotion, but i guess i should have made that clearer.

and i think american gangster was approaching that....

Just gotta write our own shit, and write our stories.

your right, i should've said that. I'll do that next time.

anyhow that's the reason to the rhyme, is it clearer?

  

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Orfeo_Negro
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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Fri Apr-04-08 11:41 AM

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8. "does that mean the poster should not be disturbed by the line?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

FOH

this reminds me of the controversy over the N-word in the first minutes of The Departed when everybody tried to act like anybody who didn't like it was an uptight asshole.

the fact that it's fiction somehow makes it less offensive or disturbing? it's unworthy to be commented upon now?

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

  

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jigga
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Fri Apr-04-08 11:45 AM

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11. "Not in the least bit"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
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Fri Apr-04-08 11:51 AM

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12. "we just gotta write our own shit."
In response to Reply # 8


          

>FOH
>
>this reminds me of the controversy over the N-word in the
>first minutes of The Departed when everybody tried to act like
>anybody who didn't like it was an uptight asshole.
>
>the fact that it's fiction somehow makes it less offensive or
>disturbing? it's unworthy to be commented upon now?

that's what im saying. to let that pass over and over again is doing us a disservice!

we just gotta write our own shit.
simple and plain.



i think people have a fear of questioning what is considered great, that it can have flaws, and it can be touched on. I guess the ones against this can say, well lets pretend it doesn't exist but it'll make you naive. but if we turn the table around....


But what makes something great is that it can stand the test of time, which this movie has, over and over.

at the end of the day, i love the movie. and i like departed. i enjoyed the writing in both films.

still....

  

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DawgEatah
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Fri Apr-04-08 03:22 PM

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33. "So if you wrote an Italian Mobster movie would you still have..."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

... them say racist shit like that? Or if you had an Italian Mobster character in your film at all, would you NOT put racist words in his mouth?






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stylez dainty
Member since Nov 22nd 2004
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Fri Apr-04-08 11:55 AM

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15. "RE: does that mean the poster should not be disturbed by the line?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Not to mention that the lines are coming from these cool-as-hell anti-heroes that most of the audience is enchanted by. It's interesting that racism is a disqualifying factor for most of the people in the real world that we support (or at least we say it is), but it's okay in the film characters we love. Why aren't we immediately rooting against these characters the second they say something racist? Surely that would be the pose we'd adopt in the real-world. Do we enjoy the power fiction gives us to free ourselves from trying to feel how we THINK we're supposed to feel, instead of how we actually do?

I'm not even criticizing the filmmakers. It's just a pretty interesting insight into the audience.

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
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Fri Apr-04-08 12:01 PM

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18. "RE: does that mean the poster should not be disturbed by the line?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

>Not to mention that the lines are coming from these
>cool-as-hell anti-heroes that most of the audience is
>enchanted by. It's interesting that racism is a disqualifying
>factor for most of the people in the real world that we
>support (or at least we say it is), but it's okay in the film
>characters we love. Why aren't we immediately rooting against
>these characters the second they say something racist? Surely
>that would be the pose we'd adopt in the real-world. Do we
>enjoy the power fiction gives us to free ourselves from trying
>to feel how we THINK we're supposed to feel, instead of how we
>actually do?
>
>I'm not even criticizing the filmmakers. It's just a pretty
>interesting insight into the audience.

check.

We relate to the dream so we began to live vicariously through the characters, substituting there situations with ours so we feel we're living in their shoes.

but that is a problem with the audience....
when its good, its good, and the audience is affected by it.

  

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stylez dainty
Member since Nov 22nd 2004
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Fri Apr-04-08 12:09 PM

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21. "So which reaction is truer?"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

The film racist we're able to see as a complete person, with other redeemable (or let's just say "cool") traits that allow us to not completely define them by their racism and even identify with?

Or the real-world racist, shamed by the media, condemned by public opinion and absolutely defined by their prejudices?

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

  

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Wrongthink
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Fri Apr-04-08 12:48 PM

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24. "I think you know the answer to that"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

One is a reaction to the compexities and imperfections of real human beings, the other is the reaction of a cult of personality.

...says Wrongthink

Real talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12JJv6yCk7Q

Current Rotation:

Shad - TSOL
Onra - Long Distance
Cool Kids - Tacklebox
Shabazz Palaces

  

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DawgEatah
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Fri Apr-04-08 03:18 PM

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32. "You SHOULD be disturbed by the line but that should be...."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

... directed at the character, not the writer or filmmaker. The filmmaker is trying to draw an accurate picture of these characters. You should be mad at the line but at the same time understand that it BELONGS there. Italian mobsters in movies should stop being racist when italian monsters in real life stop being racist. Ya know? I feel the exact same way about Tarantino using the N-word in his movies. Cats get all in a huff but he's tryna portray some real shit when he does that. It ain't HIM saying them words. It's his characters. Cats have a hard time making that connection. Not sayin yall are. But a lotta cats stay mad.







http://www.avatarsdb.com/avatars/I_gotcha.gif
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Orfeo_Negro
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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Fri Apr-04-08 03:33 PM

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34. "but sometimes it is awkward and jarring"
In response to Reply # 32
Fri Apr-04-08 03:35 PM by Orfeo_Negro

  

          

it's too much of a copout to say "that's the character" because sometimes the writer/director shows his hand too clearly by *forcing* the racism (eg QT's overuse of the N-word, Marty's early use of it in Departed)

it's clear that the writer/director is deliberately trying to shock us with this language, and i think it is well within the rights of the viewer to question that.

also, i think it's worth exploring why audiences feel comfortable with all kinds of racism and shit in gangster movies, shrugging it off with "hey, that's just how guys like that talk" but when Ralphie Cifaretto beats a woman to death they're all like "hey, hey, wait a minute now... that's taking it TOO FAR."

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

  

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KangolLove
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Fri Apr-04-08 03:48 PM

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35. "How do you feel about black characters saying it..."
In response to Reply # 34


          

in something that isn't a strictly "black" movie or tv show? I admit that it could seem more awkward to a viewer. I just started watching The Wire (late pass) and it's great but, um, uh, you know.

__________________________________________

  

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Orfeo_Negro
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Fri Apr-04-08 06:49 PM

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40. "i don't mind it in The Wire"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

what disturbs me more about The Wire is the occasionally awkward ebonics

________________

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KangolLove
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Fri Apr-04-08 08:00 PM

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44. "I agree"
In response to Reply # 40


          

There are a few "be"s that be where they don't belong.

__________________________________________

  

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Orfeo_Negro
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Fri Apr-04-08 10:36 PM

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50. "yep."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

  

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will_5198
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Fri Apr-04-08 10:34 PM

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49. "I hear that"
In response to Reply # 34


          

--------

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
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Fri Apr-04-08 09:58 PM

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45. "what crawled up your ass?"
In response to Reply # 8


          

"Regardless if you listen to me, in the end we'll see."
-Cee-Lo

"You’ve had 4 years of Trump University and are still failing the final exam smh"
-Bree Newsome Bass

  

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Orfeo_Negro
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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Fri Apr-04-08 10:38 PM

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51. "nothin'... just asking a question or two."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 11:44 AM

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10. "BTW, I saw the new Scorsese Rolling Stones concert film"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-04-08 11:44 AM by ZooTown74

  

          

And you Armchair Activists will be happy (?) to know that at no point does anyone say "nigger" (the so-called Scorsese trademark), though at one point the Stones do perform the song Some Girls, which features the infamous lyric:

White girls they're pretty funny
Sometimes they drive me mad
Black girls just wanna get fucked all night
I just don't have that much jam

Though this lyric can be heard on the studio version of the song, it is not uttered in the film version

Marty must have been on lunch/coke break while they were performing that one

Oh, I suppose this is a POST JACK
________________________________________________________________________
Runnin' thru the airport with a doo-doo Pamper on
eatin' a McDonald french fry, cause she teethinnn
and she sleep on daddy chest
and when I smoke weed I blow it in her face

- Tracy Morgan

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
296 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 11:54 AM

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14. "RE: BTW, I saw the new Scorsese Rolling Stones concert film"
In response to Reply # 10


          

>And you Armchair Activists will be happy (?) to know that at
>no point does anyone say "nigger" (the so-called Scorsese
>trademark), though at one point the Stones do perform the song
>Some Girls, which features the infamous lyric:
>
>White girls they're pretty funny
>Sometimes they drive me mad
>Black girls just wanna get fucked all night
>I just don't have that much jam
>
>Though this lyric can be heard on the studio version of the
>song, it is not uttered in the film version
>
>Marty must have been on lunch/coke break while they were
>performing that one
>
>Oh, I suppose this is a POST JACK


what's the point of responding yo?
this is just cynicism, and not really that funny.

My question is how black people are depicted in great film and how we let that slide....

but you know what?
we just gotta do our own shit. and make it great-period.

have our own and make our own.

personally i don't like the rolling stones....i was more of a beatles fan.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 11:58 AM

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17. "I was indeed being sarcastic, but I hear what you're saying"
In response to Reply # 14
Fri Apr-04-08 12:01 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

And not only that, but myself and a few others here (including cats in this post) are working on our own projects

As for the words in the Godfather, I just figured they were representative of that particular character, not the filmmakers

And I'm also more of a Beatles cat myself, I peeped the Stones doc because it was free and in IMAX...
________________________________________________________________________
Runnin' thru the airport with a doo-doo Pamper on
eatin' a McDonald french fry, cause she teethinnn
and she sleep on daddy chest
and when I smoke weed I blow it in her face

- Tracy Morgan

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
296 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 12:03 PM

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19. "RE: I was indeed being sarcastic, but I hear what you're saying"
In response to Reply # 17


          

>And not only that, but myself and a few others here
>(including cats in this post) are working on our own projects
>
>As for the words in the Godfather, I just figured they were
>representative of that particular character, not the
>filmmakers
>
>And I'm also more of a Beatles cat myself, I peeped the Stones
>doc because it was free and in IMAX...

true true.

I was just questioning a very small statement in a very great film.

Reason? To get to a certain level of greatness we have to challenge what was seen great. I don't know, what do you think?

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Fri Apr-04-08 12:10 PM

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22. "Nothing wrong with asking the question"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

I honestly haven't given it much thought beyond the context of the film

Doesn't make me better than anyone else or above-it-all

This is good discussion to have
________________________________________________________________________
Runnin' thru the airport with a doo-doo Pamper on
eatin' a McDonald french fry, cause she teethinnn
and she sleep on daddy chest
and when I smoke weed I blow it in her face

- Tracy Morgan

  

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manythoughts
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Fri Apr-04-08 11:53 AM

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13. "The character that said it was considered a bit of a clown"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-04-08 11:56 AM by manythoughts

  

          

or at least a bit dramatic. I can't remember his name, but he's the Don from Detroit. He was described friend of the Corleones, but considered weak himself.

So the comment was considered frivolous by his colleagues. They all thought that way. They weren't sophisticated at all. Most of them with the exception of maybe Barzini and the West Coast dons were peasants.

So, that line never bothered me within the context of the story.

It might provide a window into Puzo's mind though, or it might just be something he heard a relative say and thought it'd be dope to have a character say.

The Godfather is my favorite book, and since that specific line isn't the point of the book I take it with a grain of salt.

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
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Fri Apr-04-08 11:57 AM

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16. "RE: The character that said it was considered a bit of a clown"
In response to Reply # 13


          

>or at least a bit dramatic. I can't remember his name, but
>he's the Don from Detroit. He was described friend of the
>Corleones, but considered weak himself.
>
>So the comment was considered frivolous by his colleagues.
>They all thought that way. They weren't sophisticated at all.
>Most of them with the exception of maybe Barzini were
>peasants.
>
> So, that line never bothered me within the context of the
>story.
>
>It might provide a window into Puzo's mind though, or it might
>just be something he heard a relative say and thought it'd be
>dope to have a character say.
>
>The Godfather is my favorite book, and since that specific
>line isn't the point of the book I take it with a grain of
>salt.

i agree with your statement and your input is nice. But i can't really take something like this as a grain of salt....matter of fact, scratch that, like i said with everything else, just have to write our own. But this reminds me of how other cultures are being portrayed in cinema.....

i know vietnamese were pissed how they were viewed in DEER HUNTER.

it was a great film, but do we have to generalize?

i mean....really?

  

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manythoughts
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20. "RE: The character that said it was considered a bit of a clown"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

I don't know what Puzo's intent was.

If it was to simply take a shot at black folks, then fuck him...but it doesn't negate the pleasure I get from reading the book ( I read it at least once a year.)

If his intent was to show the mindset of immigrant criminals then he did a good job.

I truly don't know and I can't criticize Puzo or Coppola b/c it was their piece of work, and again I don't think that specific line is the point of the story.

  

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bignick
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Fri Apr-04-08 01:50 PM

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27. "It's not a generalization"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

It's the point of view of one specific character.

  

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now or never
Member since Oct 27th 2004
3821 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 12:10 PM

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23. ""you know who gets caught? nigger stick up men...""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


i said it.

  

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MANHOODLUM
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Fri Apr-04-08 01:15 PM

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25. "but Cuban Linx told me Italian mobsters LIKE black people"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

n/m

Avatar?
E-Boogs and Nayi

MANHOODLUM
Most sig'd okp.
No Aliases.

MANHOODLUM via Twitter
MANHOODLUM@live.com
MANHOODLUM@yahoo.com
Tommy Moran @ Facebook
MANHOODLUM@tmo.blackberry.net

  

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40thStreetBlack
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26. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          


<----- Long Live The King

  

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KangolLove
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Fri Apr-04-08 02:24 PM

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28. "Only the ones with slanted eyes who bang fat milanos"
In response to Reply # 25


          

__________________________________________

  

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Marauder21
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29. "What if they teach their seed Wu Tang karate?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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sithlord
Member since Aug 05th 2002
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Fri Apr-04-08 03:05 PM

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31. "Which is more offensive?"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

that line or when Sonny talks about "niggers up in Harlem driving Cadillacs" from running and playing numbers?

The Don of Detroit (who actually spoke that line, I forget his name, but that's who he was in the book), was dictating the terms to which the mob would be involved in the drug trade and he wanted it kept to a particular ethnic group or a particular area that he didn't care about, but wanted to exploit. That line SHOULD offend and I think that was the intent when it was written. The mob didn't give a shit about anyone but their own when it came to making money. They knew drugs were destructive, but they also knew they could make a ton of money off of drugs, so that was the parameters of the agreement.

Anybody who thinks mob guys didn't talk like that (and in the FIFTIES, no less) is dreaming.

  

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will_5198
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47. "africans and chinks"
In response to Reply # 28


          

--------

  

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Orfeo_Negro
Member since Oct 24th 2004
20923 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 03:00 PM

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30. "'Unidentified Black Males'"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

one of my favorite episodes of "The Sopranos" subtly explored the ways in which racism is used as a coping mechanism amongst the show's characters (and by extension, in gangster films). demonization and vilification of blacks is used to cloak insecurities and to mask uncomfortable truths that are way too painful to face... even for the audience.

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri Apr-04-08 05:21 PM

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38. "they touch on it at the beginning of Commendatori as well"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

"who else huh?!"

  

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Orfeo_Negro
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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Fri Apr-04-08 06:50 PM

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41. "yup, yup... good catch!"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

  

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Mynoriti
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36. "the line was about hipocrisy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

they were criminals discussing the criminal activity they were pretending to be above, as if their so-called guidelines freed them from "losing their souls".

  

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Bridgetown
Member since Dec 04th 2004
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Fri Apr-04-08 05:57 PM

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39. "I'll take 'he's a mob boss from the '50s, so why ask?' for $1000, Alex"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean, what in the hell are you on about? "Gee, I wish that drug-dealing gangster was more sensitive to my people's concerns."

I can't believe anyone is dignifying this post with a response.

Even myself.

--Maurice

_____

Bonding over sutures is what's hot in Oh-Nine.
--JS

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
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Fri Apr-04-08 06:51 PM

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42. "Here's your daily double, put all your money on it."
In response to Reply # 39


          

>I mean, what in the hell are you on about? "Gee, I wish that
>drug-dealing gangster was more sensitive to my people's
>concerns."
>
>I can't believe anyone is dignifying this post with a
>response.
>
>Even myself.
>
>--Maurice
>
listen.

im not talking about how i felt about it emotionally, i was talking about it from a line, well constructed, that always moved me in a strange way, and i wanted to talk about that....

Maybe you should've read the whole post....
i thought i said "we" should just write our own shit.

maybe if we expand it to all great movies....

do you think vietnamese were offended when they say how they depicted in the second and third act of deer hunter?

how about latinos in no country for old men?

i was just curious how movies such as these, where the color concept is crossed in the sake of creativity can be put aside by the audience, or not even noticed!

Actually come to think about it, I am amazed how good art can do that so many times!

When its good its good and its astounding.

but do we have to settle for it? yes and no.

"Shit i'll eat a pig's ass if they cook it right!"-chris rock

that's it, that's all....

  

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Bridgetown
Member since Dec 04th 2004
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Fri Apr-04-08 07:43 PM

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43. "I'm sorry, chap. You're overthinking it."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

He's a racist pig. Correction: His "character" is a racist pig. I'm afraid I don't understand what us writing our own movies has to do with this.

I don't mean to write off what that line made you feel, but perhaps I'm not understanding why this line--as opposed to the great many other inequities you could point out about Hollywood and the movie-making process--would be a call-to-arms.

--Maurice

_____

Bonding over sutures is what's hot in Oh-Nine.
--JS

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
296 posts
Sat Apr-05-08 11:13 AM

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57. "RE: I'm sorry, chap. You're overthinking it."
In response to Reply # 43


          

>He's a racist pig. Correction: His "character" is a racist
>pig. I'm afraid I don't understand what us writing our own
>movies has to do with this.
>
>I don't mean to write off what that line made you feel, but
>perhaps I'm not understanding why this line--as opposed to the
>great many other inequities you could point out about
>Hollywood and the movie-making process--would be a
>call-to-arms.
>
>--Maurice
>


well....this post was about something small, and hopefully in talking about the problem we can expand it to something greater than the small line mentioned....

maybe i should make that clearer next time?

  

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woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
13957 posts
Fri Apr-04-08 10:33 PM

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48. ""their" not "there""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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Malachi_Constant
Member since Oct 17th 2003
180 posts
Sat Apr-05-08 12:04 AM

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52. "end post"
In response to Reply # 48


          

**********************************

cease cows, life is short.

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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66. "Um, I think it is "they're""
In response to Reply # 48


  

          


!sig!

"I used to rock and roll all night and party ev-er-ry day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky." - Homer Simpson

  

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woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
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Sat Jul-26-08 09:40 AM

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67. "^not the sharpest pencil."
In response to Reply # 66
Sat Jul-26-08 09:40 AM by woe.is.me.

  

          

.

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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68. "I must not be. Explain what I am missing"
In response to Reply # 67
Sat Jul-26-08 09:48 AM by Gemini_Two_One

  

          

!sig!

"I used to rock and roll all night and party ev-er-ry day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky." - Homer Simpson

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Sat Jul-26-08 10:42 AM

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69. "What you're saying is "Let them lose they are souls.""
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

It's their.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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Gemini_Two_One
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70. "Damnit, I did not notice the second "there""
In response to Reply # 69
Sat Jul-26-08 11:10 AM by Gemini_Two_One

  

          

That was my dumbass mistake! I thought he was correcting the "They are" which should be "They're." I swear I know the difference between there/their/they're. I also swear that I should not read and post in threads before 9 AM on a Saturday.


!sig!

"I used to rock and roll all night and party ev-er-ry day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky." - Homer Simpson

  

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spawn2k
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53. "Well I'm not an idiot so no, I'm not offended by it at all"
In response to Reply # 0


          

men are so simple, and so subject to present necessities, that he who seeks to deceive will always find someone who will allow himself to be deceived. (c)Niccol Machiavelli

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
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Sat Apr-05-08 11:15 AM

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58. "RE: Well I'm not an idiot so no, I'm not offended by it at all"
In response to Reply # 53


          

>

ok. an idiot????

....alright.

  

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mrshow
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Sat Apr-05-08 03:53 AM

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54. "It comes down to what you want out of art"
In response to Reply # 0


          

If you want to watch a bunch of "nice" people sitting around hugging each other, I'd stay away from guys like Scorsese, Coppola and Lee.

The bottom line is theres alot of evil shit that goes down in the world, and, personally, I think not depicting it helps no one. The Mafia doesn't go through diversity training and to depict then doing so (in anything other than an SNL sketch) would be, to me, very dishonest.

  

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Orfeo_Negro
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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Sat Apr-05-08 06:07 AM

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55. "sorry... that's a bit of a copout."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
296 posts
Sat Apr-05-08 11:23 AM

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59. "RE: It comes down to what you want out of art"
In response to Reply # 54


          

>If you want to watch a bunch of "nice" people sitting around
>hugging each other, I'd stay away from guys like Scorsese,
>Coppola and Lee.
>
>The bottom line is theres alot of evil shit that goes down in
>the world, and, personally, I think not depicting it helps no
>one. The Mafia doesn't go through diversity training and to
>depict then doing so (in anything other than an SNL sketch)
>would be, to me, very dishonest.


right. this is true. i didn't say i should call the fcc and ban art....i was just wondering about one specific line in a big movie that always took my interest. the niggers in the cadillac line is too easy....the line above is more interesting because people up top may or may not think or speak like that....

and it makes you question the motive of every product that is put into distribution, the conversation that partakes before the product is released....

from the laptop, to your ipod/iphone, to your precious roots album.

everything should be questioned....and its interesting.

and on to the side of that, the smallest things we let slide usually create the biggest effect.

  

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will_5198
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63. "oh please"
In response to Reply # 54


          

--------

  

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k_orr
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56. "this post is confusing me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm not really sure what the problem specifically is, and what specific remedy you are proposing.

Can you write/direct/create a gangster story without disparaging comments about black people?

Yes.

Should we require that in future films?

I think that's what you're saying, and I can't really see an argument for that at all.

  

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meccau
Member since Jul 16th 2006
296 posts
Sat Apr-05-08 11:24 AM

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60. "RE: this post is confusing me"
In response to Reply # 56


          

>I'm not really sure what the problem specifically is, and
>what specific remedy you are proposing.
>
>Can you write/direct/create a gangster story without
>disparaging comments about black people?
>
>Yes.
>
>Should we require that in future films?
>
>I think that's what you're saying, and I can't really see an
>argument for that at all.
>
>


yeah your right.

im gonna edit the phrase and make it clearer.

thanks!

  

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k_orr
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Sat Apr-05-08 01:04 PM

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61. "no prob, glad to be of help"
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BigWorm
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Sat Apr-05-08 05:36 PM

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62. "another way to look at it"
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It's really weird how many people are defending Scorsese about this, or calling the thread ridiculous.

Yeah the word bothered me in the Godfather. It also bothered me in Goodfellas, and in Casino (via 'sand-niggers) and in The Departed. Just like with Tarantino, I notieced it in Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction.

As a writer and fan buff, I look at the dialogue as in driving the story and developing the characters--all to some purpose.

Scorsese and Tarantino and anyone else are all fully aware that when some white character uses the word nigger, it is NOT going to go unnoticed. It won't slip through the cracks, people won't give it a pass.

You can say it's character development, but...that seems like a stretch in some cases. Okay for instance: in True Romance I thought it was necessary, as use of the word is biting BUT integral to the story. In Reservoir Dogs, it's just a throwaway line or two.

In The Departed, I almost tried to see justification of the use, as the one and only black person in the film is basically the only un-corrupt character in the movie, and though he dies, in the end he turned out to be DiCapprio's (though failed) only hope for salvation. You know, irony and stuff.

I didn't see that in Goodfellas. They use the word, then go and throw Sam Jackson into the mix, although I don't believe they ever use the word in any of his scenes, nor does it really contrast with his character. I don't remember if it was Pesci or Liotta or both that use the word. If it's Pesci, it contrasts to how he's also pals with Jackson, but then also kills him later on. I don't know though.

This is all open for debate, but basically I just think that this should be looked at in terms of its applicability to the story, either explicitly or implicitly. Saying that it fleshes out the characters as thugged rugged tough guys is a copout. Plenty of movies have done that without throwing n-bombs. And the makers of these movies know that well enough.

  

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sithlord
Member since Aug 05th 2002
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Mon Apr-07-08 10:03 AM

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64. "RE: another way to look at it"
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What people are missing is that this was the 50s and damn near every white person that didn't have a black family member probably said "nigger" at least seven times a day.

The mob isn't some benevolent organization that loves everyone, so it is completely believable that they held those opinions.

In The Departed, Nicholson's character is an Irishman from Boston, so it is dead on that he'd harbor some sort of racist feelings (even though one of his opera companions was a black woman...and a FINE one at that).

This quote right here:

>>I didn't see that in Goodfellas. They use the word, then go and throw Sam Jackson into the mix, although I don't believe they ever use the word in any of his scenes, nor does it really contrast with his character. I don't remember if it was Pesci or Liotta or both that use the word. If it's Pesci, it contrasts to how he's also pals with Jackson, but then also kills him later on. I don't know though.

Tommy admonished a date earlier for saying "I could see how a white girl could fall for him" when discussing Sammy Davis Jr., so he wasn't immune to racism. The real-life guy the character was based on was good friends with Stacks Edwards (Samuel Jackson's character), which was why they sent him to kill Stacks. They got him to do it by saying "he could be made" if he did it. Tommy was a psycho and would have killed anyone for any reason, but that probably made the deal even sweeter.

The inherent racism in these characters shouldn't make anyone enjoy the films less, but it should attract your attention. If anything, the filmmakers seem to be saying, "don't forget that these guys are scum. you might like them, but they're scum".

  

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Frank Longo
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Mon Apr-07-08 10:15 AM

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65. "The most painful one of all of those to me is Reservoir Dogs."
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Because it's not just a couple of throwaway lines, it's like 5 or 6 throwaway lines sprinkled in at different places in the film. It reeks of "QT thinks saying the n-word is cool."

Some of the others I can excuse as being a result of the period, or being a result of the character's villainy... yes, in RD the characters are all seedy, but they're symbols of cool, and tying use of the n-word to their coolness is dicey to me.

I never think that Jack in The Departed or Pesci in Goodfellas are "cool." Those RD guys have montages of them walking to badass music and speaking hip funny quip-filled dialogue. It's always been my biggest problem with the film.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
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Yadgyu
Member since May 31st 2006
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Sun Jul-27-08 12:44 AM

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71. "That line was not about black people. It was about injustice to all of m..."
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GET ON MY LEVEL!

  

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BrothaJ
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Wed Jul-30-08 07:05 AM

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72. "RE: "They are animals anyway so let them lose there souls""
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Man, I made it through crack, 600 homicides in one year, Reaganomics, and Vanilla Ice. Forgive me if "The N-word" doesn't move me. I see it more as an indictment of the person using it than anyone else. It's like saying "I'm an insecure relic of the past with no future intellectual ambitions. Pity me."

Besides, It's one line in a 30 year old movie written for a white male character born around the turn of the century (Not this century, the last one), written by some white guy who was probably born around the same time. It's historically accurate.

I was more offended by Sonny's ugly ass jumpoff. She looks like Miss Piggy without makeup.

http://BrothaJ.com/

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Put'em next to me...You say 'go'...I'll race'em...and I'll beat'em (c) Myzel Robinson, age 15

  

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