SPOILERS for those who didn't see the movie yet.....






Ahem, I'm not disappointed about the fact that the killer got away or whatever but I thought I would get some sort of explanation about his getaway during the final scene where Tommy Lee is talking about his dream. I guess this is a movie where you're left with your own imagination of what happened next. I don't know. I'm just trying to make sure I didn't miss anything that would've made more sense in regards to the ending. If my post seems all over the place then forgive me. It's late night over here and I haven't had much sleep so I'm kind of out of it. Your response will be appreciated.


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but also that no matter who you may be in the end its not up to you on the final judgement.

listen to what lee says about the dream again you'll get it

or its about nutmeg either one works *shrugs*

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it was a cool movie as far as cinematography, the setting, and character sketches.....but in the end it was like dr. zhivago. you're left with dissapointment if you were looking for substance or a neat ending. anyone who tells you any different is pretentious. ^^^^

you just have to think a bit to see it. *gasp*

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bad people do bad things and get away with it. i believe that's a theme in a lot of the original author's work.

we're conditioned to expect a happy, neat ending, but this story didn't really have one.

About your question: I would need to see the movie again to make more sense of it. Which isn't a bad thing in my eyes, especially considering the cinematography, set design and characters were so awesome.

I'm #ffffff

And I feel compelled to see it again, because I'm kinda in the same boat as you. What my guess is is this: There are a lot of stories told in this movie between the cop ad other people. The stories seem to drag on with no real meaning to the story, but that tells me that those stories are probably supposed to be parallel to the story we viewers are seeing unfold.

You ever read "Watchmen"? It's like that.

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It's a bit of a headfuck really.

Essentially, the filmmakers aren't really too concerned with wrapping things up neatly. They don't give a shit about the bad guy being vanquished by the good guys. They don't care about justice, and they certainly don't care about "resolution".

In fact, by the time the ending rolls around, the entire coda with Tommy Lee Jones meeting with various peers (e.g. eating in that diner with another sheriff, out in that desert shack with his retired friend who has all the cats, at home with his wife reminiscing about his career) is meant to bring the viewer around to the realization that this movie is not your typical action/thriller kinda flick, but actually a study about the encroachment of greed and sheer fucking evil on the American landscape. About how evil is marching forward increasingly stronger and faster (the movie is set in the early 80s I believe, at least the book was), and how those who once stood for some kind of righteousness (e.g. - the old men) are essentially powerless in the face of it.

In short, there's no place for them in this new world, particularly, in this new America... No Country For Old Men... Everything's going to shit, and while there have always been "bad men", the bad men and the forces at work now are completely without conscience, remorse or pity. They start meaningless wars and suck the life out of everything and everyone around them: presidents, the heads of huge multi-national corporations, serial killers, second-rate pseudo-gangsta rappers just trying to make a buck and poisoning the minds of so many. (Well, that last part is just me getting carried away a bit.)

In fact, it seems that the film argues it has always been this way (cat dude telling the story about his grandfather or somebody getting killed by a bunch of bandits), and that, simply put, the good guys don't always save the day. Furthermore, their chances are getting slimmer and slimmer. Grim hopelessness and all that stuff...

That's what's at work here (by my interpretation at least), but really, it's up to you the viewer to decide if the film's tone and themes have been communicated effectively.

Personally, I absolutely loved the shit. But, despite all the praise and awards and whatever, a lot of people didn't get it, and certainly didn't love it. Fuck everything that I said though. Check it out again sometime in the future and see how it sits with you.



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his meeting with his uncle was about how it always existed. not that its worse now.

ur all wrong, the shit was very clear and not to be left up to interpretado

I took it very literally. My theory is that the dope and the money are somehow linked to Tommy Lee. He never tries to capture the killer, he always follows the money. The killer leaves at least 2 eye witnesses that Tommy Lee never questions. The gas station attendent and the lady in the mobile home office. When he has the killer cornerned in the hotel room, instead of calling in the calvary, he lets him go because he knows he wouldn't be able to claim the money if he did. He also ducks every inquiry from the feds for assistance.

Dreams- He says he lost the money his father gave him to go to town with. literal translation
His father is on horseback and passes by him with no recognition. symbolizing a time before he was born.
A horn filled with flour. symbolizing a kilo. the pickup truck had 20 kilos. "I'm twenty years older now, than he ever was"
Its snowing. Snow symbolizes death.Not to mention they're on the tex-mex border, where I'm sure it never snows. His father builds a fire. Meaning that with death surrounding him, he is comfortable.

Long story short-If you're a sherriff and you don't know of a major drug deal in your jurisdiction, but everyone else knows about it, then you're not much of a cop anyway. It was Tommy Lee's money.

we know the money belongs to the man in the building. this is why carson and anton are hired to retrieve it.

>I took it very literally. My theory is that the dope and the
>money are somehow linked to Tommy Lee. He never tries to
>capture the killer, he always follows the money. The killer
>leaves at least 2 eye witnesses that Tommy Lee never
>questions. The gas station attendent and the lady in the
>mobile home office.


how exactly was ed tom supposed to know about these witnesses?


When he has the killer cornerned in the
>hotel room, instead of calling in the calvary, he lets him go
>because he knows he wouldn't be able to claim the money if he
>did.


he didn't know he was in the room. he thought he had already left.


He also ducks every inquiry from the feds for
>assistance.


eh, that's kind of an old cop cliche. you know how none of them want to deal with the snobby feds that look down on the police department, and especially small town police.


>
>Dreams- He says he lost the money his father gave him to go to
>town with. literal translation
>His father is on horseback and passes by him with no
>recognition. symbolizing a time before he was born.
>A horn filled with flour. symbolizing a kilo. the pickup truck
>had 20 kilos. "I'm twenty years older now, than he ever was"
>Its snowing. Snow symbolizes death.Not to mention they're on
>the tex-mex border, where I'm sure it never snows. His father
>builds a fire. Meaning that with death surrounding him, he is
>comfortable.


well, that's your interpretation, but i don't get how you think you took that literally.


>
>Long story short-If you're a sherriff and you don't know of a
>major drug deal in your jurisdiction, but everyone else knows
>about it, then you're not much of a cop anyway. It was Tommy
>Lee's money.
>


i think your forcing your own opinions of the character too much into your interpretation of the movie.

how do you know the hitman isn't stealing the money and drugs. you don't know which one belongs to the businessman.

a strange man, who happens to be a hitman, steals a car, threatens your life, and fills up his tank at your gas station moments after he kills the owner of the car. shouldn't be too hard for Tommy Lee to put together.

again. a strange man, who happens to be a hitman, walks into your office and harasses you about the whereabouts of one of your tenants, moments after your tenant goes on the lamb.

he knew the killer was in the hotel room. moments before he goes back to the hotel room he has a conversation with another police officer where he is amazed at the balls the killer displays by killing the hotel desk clerk and then coming back for woody harrelson, he knew he would come back to the hotel room at the end.

i agree with the old cop cliche of not accepting help from the government, but this guy went on a killing spree. he's just roaming about town killing people. you would think the feds would take the case over anyway.

>how do you know the hitman isn't stealing the money and
>drugs. you don't know which one belongs to the businessman.

you make a good point. i guess in the end, we don't know who anton works for. it's been years since i read the book, so i don't really recall the details. but when anton goes to kill the man in the building, he talks to the other guy in the room. he complains about how carson was hired also, and i took it that he was insulted that they didn't trust him to get the money back, and so he kills the man in the building. he says something about they picked the right tool, and there was no need for anyone else. but i guess that doesn't prove it either way.


>
>a strange man, who happens to be a hitman, steals a car,
>threatens your life, and fills up his tank at your gas station
>moments after he kills the owner of the car. shouldn't be too
>hard for Tommy Lee to put together.
>
>again. a strange man, who happens to be a hitman, walks into
>your office and harasses you about the whereabouts of one of
>your tenants, moments after your tenant goes on the lamb.


nah, you are misinterpreting me. i'm saying unless those two witness reported anton to the police, then ed tom wouldn't know anything. to the witnesses, it was just some crazy old dude acing strange. i'm sure people encounter fugitives and criminals every day and don't know it, y'know?


>
>he knew the killer was in the hotel room. moments before he
>goes back to the hotel room he has a conversation with another
>police officer where he is amazed at the balls the killer
>displays by killing the hotel desk clerk and then coming back
>for woody harrelson, he knew he would come back to the hotel
>room at the end.


i think at first ed tom does think anton is in the room b/c the lock is shot out (which is why he draws his gun), but when he looks around, he doesn't find anton. you can see the sigh of relief on ed tommy lee jones's face when he thinks anton is gone, and that he missed him. i think tommy lee jones realized he wouldn't have made it out of the one.

The point I'm trying to make about the pursuit of the killer is that there are leads and crime scenes which tommy lee doesn't pursue.
ex: when he first enters the mobile home crime scene. he doesn't look for clues or start fingerprinting. he knows the money is on the move, sits down, and contaminates the only piece of physical evidence in the room, the quart of milk.
The killer originally steals a squad car. pulls over a pedestrian. kills him, and takes his car. once the body is discovered and identified, the make and model of the car would be obtained.
ex: apb, be on the look out for a mad-man driving a "insert description of the car here". something like that.
He knows this guy is a professional, a hitman, yet he tries to keep it quiet, why? Pride. That doesn't make sense. Like I said earlier, if he had any pride in being an officer, or sherriff even, you would think he would know about a huge drug deal going down in his jurisdiction. A huge drug deal that at least 15 people knew about.(dead bodies)
He knows he has him cornered in the hotel room. He knows he's in there. And there is a dramatic pause, after he looks at the vent and realizes the money is on the move again.

anton was there to get the money back for the fat guy...he went off the deep end when he realized the mexicans had been hired end of story..dude had a extreme and warped sense of how things were supposed to be and when he was disappointed people died end of story

Anton killed the motorist he pulled over.

Yet, when he was talking to the girlfriend in the diner, he was reminicing about the air gun...meaning it was on his mind.

He knew how Anton killed the motorist, but for some reason, told the younger, dimwitted cop he had no idea.

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Pretty interesting, I'm gonna have to watch it again to see if your interpretation matches up.


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he went in there in the middle of the night, saw that the air vent grate had been removed and the money already gone, and left

bit suspicious

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in the book, at the beginning of (almost?) every chapter sheriff ed tom has a monologue in which he tells stories from his career as a lawman. if i remember correctly the coens only use one of those monologues (at the beginning of the movie)

the monologues kind of help relate what is going on in ed tom's head as he is struggling to understand the violence going on not only in his town, but nationwide. since the coen bros don't utilize those monologues, the ending seems kind of out of place with the rest of the movie, and to me, it just seems like a last minute attempt at philosophy

my interpretation of the ending is about the questioning of fate, evil, and God. if one believes in God, then they might question why did anton not die in the car accident. or at least, why did the police not catch him then (we hear the sirens in the background). why did the man who was 'good' (llewelyn), and all the other innocent people along the way, die? is fate as indifferent as a coin toss? we're kind of placed in ed tom's shoes b/c throughout the whole novel and movie he is just as baffled as we are about why all this is happening.

i think along the way ed tom realizes that there is no way to battle the changes in man with time, and its inherent violence...society and people just aren't the same as when he first became a lawman, and also for those that were sheriff before him (remember he says previous sheriffs didn't even carry pistols). which is where the title 'no country for old men' comes from...

ed tom is not the good guy here...his job wasnt to battle evil it was to fight crime and in this case catch a killer and he decided not to end of story...and thats why its no country for old men....he wasnt baffled about anything....and ellis schooled him to the fact that things had always been violent and senseless

he didnt wanna end up like ellis or his uncle

at least thats what i got from the old man telling tommy lee jones that old story. so basically the killer is a metaphore. he is the embodimant of evil. If you cross his path, you involve yourself and ultimately fall victim. just like the other dude (names escape me, and im on my way out, no time for wiki) who could have protected his wife but instead went after the money. Tommy lee jones' character realized that if he was to pursue this any further, he was ultimately going to be a victim. its about taming your ego. and he quit because that was the only way he was going to win.

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brilliant summation.

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the killer did represent evil, but rather one survived the encounter was up to chance or fate, thus the coin toss

tommy lee decided to go home and not tempt fate or "push his chips forward"

moss didnt go after the money, he already had it...anton was gonna kill him any way...he decided to face him since he knew he couldnt run


>Tommy lee jones' character realized that if he was
>to pursue this any further, he was ultimately going to be a
>victim. its about taming your ego. and he quit because that
>was the only way he was going to win.

he quit because he was a pussy...he wasnt afraid of dying like he said in the beginning

T. Lee thought he could put a stop to Chigurh, but as the story goes on, where he continues to fail, he realizes he can not.

The convo with the uncle, T. Lee learns that this is not some new evil he's facing (despite the violence, drugs, and money), but an evil that's always been there.

And if the realization that he might not be able to stop Chigurh didn't push him to the edge, the realization that he could not stop any of it is what makes him go off the deep end.

Instead of bravely facing it, which is the typical hollywood ending, T. Lee, a law man in a long line of law men, gives up.

that's my take.

one of the best movies i've ever seen. It moved it's way into my top 5 after one viewing.

and also how the movie begins with Lee telling the story of the kid reinforces this. I went to the theater to see a screening of Juno & walked into the wrong theater. I stayed and was blown away.



>T. Lee thought he could put a stop to Chigurh, but as the
>story goes on, where he continues to fail, he realizes he can
>not.
>
>The convo with the uncle, T. Lee learns that this is not some
>new evil he's facing (despite the violence, drugs, and money),
>but an evil that's always been there.
>
>And if the realization that he might not be able to stop
>Chigurh didn't push him to the edge, the realization that he
>could not stop any of it is what makes him go off the deep
>end.
>
>Instead of bravely facing it, which is the typical hollywood
>ending, T. Lee, a law man in a long line of law men, gives
>up.
>
>that's my take.
>
>one of the best movies i've ever seen. It moved it's way into
>my top 5 after one viewing.

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all the young people in the movie were all in but the old heads like the gas station clerk backed down....tommy lee was going over the meaning of life through the whole movie and reconciled his fate

The movie wasn't about Josh Brolin's character (Moss) and it wasn't about Javier Bardem's character (Chigurh). It was about Tommy Lee Jones' character (Bell). The dream he recounted at the end summed up his epiphany. Bang, there's no more movie, his arc is completed. Nothing else to say.

The whole movie follows Bell's arc from a man with an idealistic view of humankind to a man with a terrifyingly pessimistic view of humankind. Throughout the movie Bell tussles with this idea of this new kind of evil that he figures the world's never seen before, this sinister element that he alludes to being the devil's work, as if the devil is making advances in the his trench war with heaven. Later in the movie he meets his uncle, and his uncle recounts an old story about how an old relative of theirs (also a sheriff, if I remember) died in a heinous way by evil executors. He goes so far as to describe the disregard for life his killers showed in their hallow eyes. This flies in the face of Bell's theory of man...evil's always been here, within us.

This brings us to the dream.

Bell's dream involves him riding in a cold and harsh valley (life), and his father (god) rides past him, and he assumes that his father's gone ahead to fix a fire and camp for him when he's through (heaven).

Then he woke up.

He woke up from this fantasy that there's a fire at the end of the valley. He woke up from this fantasy that his father is looking after him. He woke up from a fantasy that god looks over mankind but the devil is making headway...the devil has always been within us, mankind fundamentally has evil inherent in his being.

When he'd woken up from this fantasy, that's it, end of story. That's what the story was about: Bell's path to waking up. Then he woke up. End scene.

And, no snark, but I don't understand people who say they don't like that Moss was killed without some sort of "showdown" and that Chighur got away. I don't understand people who want a movie to follow a form of previous movies.

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you obviously read a lot of books. how can tommy lee think he has a place in heaven. he quit. he gave up. he dedicated his life to law enforcement, and when he came up against an equal opponent, he retired. this hitman didn't killed without any prejudice. ex: the man who's car he took, the wife, the hotel deskman. how can tommy lee live the rest of his life in any kind of peace knowing that he let this man go. and he did let him go. the good vs. evil thing is way too general. what an awesome movie though, to have people talking about it almost a year after it was released. classic.

did you watch the movie?

You posting from mars. How does anything you said relate to my post? When did I say Bell would make it to heaven? Why couldn't he think something that was incorrect anyway? Good vs Evil? Watchu talking about?

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this is how i interpreted the movie too.

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logic

like, the guy at the end says to him 'you can't expect the whole world to wait for you, that's vanity'
and the very end he talks about a dream where he expects his father to be keeping a fire for him on the path ahead, but he never gets there

it's about expecting the narrative to provide closure and thus make a some judgement on a situation

like at the start, the very first voice-over, the sherriff talks about arresting a man who killed for no real reason at all, but the newspaper tried to write it as a 'crime of passion'

so the film ends so abruptly because it denies the narrative logic that is usually there to comfort the audience. it denies the vanity of the audience.

of course, it would be lame if the abrupt ending was all they did to support this theme. that's why they spent most of the film carefully building up then dispelling narrative logic (a lot of people misinterpret the film because they missed the part/point when various narrative logic was dispelled, so they think the storytellers are trying to inform you about good/evil or moral conduct of the characters etc)

if you read the large speeches/voiceovers of the screenplay, it becomes easy to patch together this conclusion. especially given their prominence - right at the start of the film, right at the end, after the hero's death...

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"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

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a) he brought God into it for some reason, i don't recall that in the movie
b) doesn't really fit with the speeches and general actions of the film that closely
c) that doesn't make a terribly interesting story idea. 'evil is within us... or some people like hitmen at least...we find this out because... some bad shit happens'. large parts of the film are concerned basically just with filmmaking conventions, deconstructing them, and as such i think the main thrust of the film is more on this meta level of deconstruction

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

you can't save the world
you can just do your best
then you get old
and have to deal wtih that

i got the "message" or theme loud and clear but disliked the way it was delivered. TLJ's character was just weak to me. i didn't really care about him enough to have him carry the last 15-20 minutes of the movie. he was fine in small doses but he got way too much end time.

i didn't like the timing of it. i honestly started to fall asleep.

maybe if TLJ had his dream scene earlier, say before chigur met dude's wife and got hit by the car, it would've went over better. chigur waling away from the accident would've been the perfect time to roll the credits.

everybody has an idea of what the ending is about

and they're all different

that's great to me.

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not even a good one. I barely stayed woke the first time I watched it. I said to myself it is just about fate and consequences. Then i watched it again and then said to myself, evil just exists and there really is no meaning or explanation for it. OCFOM is such an emotionaless film. It is hard to really connect with it in any way. No wonder it flopped at the box office.

I read some of the 2 star reviews at Amazon.com. This dude figured it out.


The movie seems to tease us, to remind us that we shouldn't care what happens to the characters. Their lives are without worth or meaning anyway, as are our own.
BrianB,
review taken from Amazon.com

The film promotes apathy. No wonder it won best picture.The ending is nothing but a tease....completely meaningless. It still achieves it's objective which is confusion. I think it can be looked at as a metaphor for America. Our society is an apathetic nation of aging individuals that are becoming more stressed and confused........
WOW!

including, but not limited to, calling NCFOM a flop at the box office. Everyone is entitled to silly ass opinions but if you just make shit up you're getting called on it.

try this: next time you don't know what you're talking about....don't say anything.

-------------------------------

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if you leave disheleved and confused then the movie work casue that was the point......To leave you in the same state of mind as Bell was like "what the fuck is going on I can't grasp this" your mind just wondering waht the fuck did I jsut go through and witness.......You became Bell.

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Which is why both films will end up in my top 10 for the decade.

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I figured TLJ character didnt have it in him to fight (or at least try) to fight against 'evil' anymore. I think that represented a good part of us. I feel we all will eventually get to a point where we dont want to fight the BS and just 'give up' I think his dream represent that conscience part of everyone mind that you fought a good fight but when a opponent rises that you obvisously cant contend with, just let it go!

in the beginning he explained it:

"the crime you see now its hard to take its measure
its not that im afraid of it
i always knew you had to be willing to die to even do this job
but i dont wanna push my chips forward and go out and meet something i dont understand
a man would have to put his soul at hazard
he'd have to say ok, i'll be a part of this world"

and that &!+(% a$$ nigga didnt have the balls any more...he was ahead of everybody else in figuring the case out he knew where he was going, what he was after and what would be the outcome...and he knew he was in that motel...and he decided that instead of facing his ultimate test he was gonna retire

everyone else that stood up to the killer died, but they took a stand and in so doing died for a principle...even woody harrelson

he wasnt cut out to be like his father thats why his pops rode out into the sunset while he stayed behind...he felt like his dad would always be there waiting for him....but then he 'woke up'

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The whole plot is about Woody Harrelsons character

The Cohen brothers explain that in this interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU


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Damn!


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I thought the dvd skipped when it ended. I thought it skipped about 2 scenes.

I listened to Tommy Lee Wrinkles explain his dreams about 3 times, before I realized...

Wait, Chugurh didn't die...and he didn't escape...

he was left on the curb with a compound fracture....sulking.

WTF?

What the hell does that mean?

The unexpected happens, and things don't always fit comfortably. No showdown...no comfy escape either. He just...got into a car accident. Womp! There, it happend.

Big, bad killer...sitting on the curb in the suburbs, with a compound fracture. Ow.

I also thought it was ironic that Moss had to pay $500 for a jacket to cover his wounds (the kid still had a shirt), and Chugurh got a shirt (the kid had nothing left) for free, out of concern from the kid (even tho Chugurh gave him money afterwards).

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>I also thought it was ironic that Moss had to pay $500 for a
>jacket to cover his wounds (the kid still had a shirt), and
>Chugurh got a shirt (the kid had nothing left) for free, out
>of concern from the kid (even tho Chugurh gave him money
>afterwards).

Good catch here. I hadn't thought of that...



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I just saw the KCFOM last night and when the crash happend i thought immedietly of the scene from Tyler Perry's Daddies Little Girls were Idris Elba rams the car with his babies mama inside lol....I'll have to watch this movie again cause the cinematography was GREAT and so was the acting but the ending did leave more to be desired.

>The unexpected happens, and things don't always fit
>comfortably. No showdown...no comfy escape either. He
>just...got into a car accident. Womp! There, it happend.

How come Ed Tom didn't talk to the lady who ran the RV park where Lewellyn and Carla Jean lived? He was obviously aware that Chigurh was there VERY recently. Even the worst detectives would know to canvass the area for witnesses.

Its a small bit of the film and really wouldn't have led to naything anyway, but for some reason that nagged at me.

I'm a Coen Bros. fanatic and this movie was nothing less than astonishing to me.