I mean, how do you get yourself to sit down and put pen to paper or hands to keyboard? What's the process (if that's not too personal of a question) you go through? its been a personal goal of mine to complete writing an original story before i graduate college (got 2 semesters left). I have a bunch of false starts, which usually consist of me starting with an idea, then taking a "break..." and never picking them back up. so i have places to start, i just gotta do it. I think I'm finding an outline is definitely what I have to start with, and just work on each segment at a time and piece it all together.

this is probably only relevant to like, 6 people here, but what say you?

peace
mike

http://theonlyblogthatmatters.wordpress.com
http://www.last.fm/user/mdrohan/

...you just have to keep writing. All the time. Even if it sucks.

I have a hundred false starts, that are all pretty shitty. You leave them in the drawer, and you never know when you'll pull them out and *click* you know how to fix them.

The more you write, even really short things, even just things on your mind, your writing will get better. I try to experimental stylistically sometimes, just to see if I can make myself a bit more versatile.

I like to write plays, so I also do a whole lot of listening to people around me, observing folks-- the way they talk, the way they behave. Many short things I've written have begun with things I've heard or said myself, and then I just let it steamroll ahead naturally from there, until it becomes an entity of its own.

I have a great piece called "36 Assumptions About Writing Plays" by a fantastic playwright named Jose Rivera that I like to read whenever I get down on my own writing. I'll put it up sometime.

That reminds me, another thing to do is to go be inspired by other art. Look at a painting, and maybe a scenario or something to write about will pop into your head. See a movie-- does it remind you of something from your own life? Does it make you think about something you've maybe never thought of before? Try writing about it. Listen to music-- again, songs are stories, both lyrically and melodically, and can inspire ideas in any writer.

#1 is just write, write, write, write, write, write, write. And then do some writing, too. Something will make you stop and say "... this could be good."

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

do exercises.
do things that you know you won't use.
that's what writing classes are good for, really.
not teaching you to write.
MAKING you write.

>That reminds me, another thing to do is to go be inspired by
>other art. Look at a painting, and maybe a scenario or
>something to write about will pop into your head. See a
>movie-- does it remind you of something from your own life?
>Does it make you think about something you've maybe never
>thought of before? Try writing about it. Listen to music--
>again, songs are stories, both lyrically and melodically, and
>can inspire ideas in any writer.

yeah, i do tend to get inspired when i finish a chapter in a hemingway or salinger novel, and when listening to a certain song, and i guess that i should probably just heed the urge of inspiration these create and just write then and there and see what I come up with.

>#1 is just write, write, write, write, write, write, write.
>And then do some writing, too. Something will make you stop
>and say "... this could be good."

definitely. i really need to make more time.

peace
mike

http://theonlyblogthatmatters.wordpress.com
http://www.last.fm/user/mdrohan/

Is this supposed to be sarcastic or sincere?

http://chainsawcalligraphy.blogspot.com/2007/07/36-assumptions-about-writing-plays.html

Mech

he's a little more poetic-minded than some playwrights i know, but he's definitely sincere.

sig: "you'll have a knapsack full of jack after taxes."

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

A little on the navel gazing side but some parts really jumped out at me:

"6. Each line of dialogue is like a piece of DNA: potentially containing the entire play and its thesis; potentially telling us the beginning, middle, and end of the play."

In the wrong hands this could lead to some very bad, very heavy handed writing. But I like the basic idea. And so well put with the DNA analogy. Each part contains the whole. It shows that even the most seemingly insignificant detail of a play, story, etc. can have hours, days, weeks of thought behind it.

"Rhythm is key. Us as may sounds and cadences as possible. Think of dialogue as a form of percussive music. You can vary the speed of language, the beats per line, volume, density. You can use silences, fragments, elongated sentences, interruptions, overlapping conversation, physical activity, monologues, nonsense, non-sequiteurs, foreign languages."

I think this is solid advice whether the audience is hearing the dialogue or reading it on a page. Obviously there will be differences, but the basic concept applies.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

post up that piece by Jose Rivera?
Sounds interesting.

"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

Like two links lower.
I really need to start reading.
Thanks anyway.

"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

A lot of writing and video editing. Perhaps I'm serious about going into live-action.

Sometimes it's hard to motivate myself, but sometimes a good idea will just hit me. Other times -a lot of the time - I'll get a great idea while listening to music.

what is the main thing you want to write about?
don't just try to write a story.
write a story about something that means something to you.

a professional playwright once told me that everything you write needs to be "as urgent as a suicide note."
you have to NEED to write what you're writing.

now of course, not every writer writes this way.
but i think a lot of the great ones do.

identify what you want to write about.
write that down.
think about it. a lot.
let it embed itself in your brain.
and then start.

and then finish.
you have to finish.
you must finish.

so you should want to finish.

>what is the main thing you want to write about?
>don't just try to write a story.
>write a story about something that means something to you.
>
>a professional playwright once told me that everything you
>write needs to be "as urgent as a suicide note."
>you have to NEED to write what you're writing.

definitely. i know basically what i want to write about, and its going to be something based on my own life in the past few years, because i too believe in the "write what you know" mantra. writers who do that sound more authentic.


>now of course, not every writer writes this way.
>but i think a lot of the great ones do.
>
>identify what you want to write about.
>write that down.
>think about it. a lot.
>let it embed itself in your brain.
>and then start.
>
>and then finish.
>you have to finish.
>you must finish.
>
>so you should want to finish.

yeah. and i guess i just need to set my priorities that if this is something i want to do, i need to cut some other things down like internet and tv. its all about the time you put into it i guess, really.

peace
mike

http://theonlyblogthatmatters.wordpress.com
http://www.last.fm/user/mdrohan/

when you're doing the other stuff, you should be thinking about the writing.
when i'm in the middle of writing something new, i literally think about it between ten and eighteen hours a day.
not exclusively, but no matter what i'm doing, the project is on my mind.
everything i see reminds me of the project.
everything i see gives me new possibilities for the project.
it's all-encompassing.

again, not all writers are this way.
but for me, if i don't care about something enough to obsess over it, it's not worth writing.

sig: "you'll have a knapsack full of jack after taxes."

>again, not all writers are this way.
>but for me, if i don't care about something enough to obsess
>over it, it's not worth writing.

...if it's not something that makes you think when you step away from it, then how do you expect your audience to think about it when they step away?

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

I want to write something based on my life. I have been to a lot of interesting places and had a lot of interesting things happen to me in the last few years that have made me stop and think, and say "i should really write a story about this." (and this isn't just someone saying this thought. I do write and i KNOW i can write, I know i have that skill and keep up with it (but in the form of music reviews).

but my life keeps going.

so my problem is coming up with a point i want to make/climax/resolving ending. as well as getting these things across that I know are crazy and interesting, but developing them so they're interesting to someone other than me or my friends.

So maybe I should just write and then try to get something out of what i end up with? But i feel i need a point to tie it all together and guide things along.

So that's where i'm at.

peace
mike

http://theonlyblogthatmatters.wordpress.com
http://www.last.fm/user/mdrohan/

Life doesn't come to nice well-written conclusions the way stories do. Don't be afraid to start with something in your life, and maybe exaggerate it a bit, or play with the structure of the piece in order to give it some additional intrigue.

Whatever you do, do NOT get trapped under the "but it didn't happen this way" mentality. Free your mind, and the writes will follow.

P.S. This does not apply if you're intending on writing a memoir to submit to Oprah's Book Club.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

but that's the opposite of writing fiction of drama.
we have to tell it how it might be.
how it could have been.
we *have* to divorce it from reality.
otherwise, write it as a memoir.

you need to tell a story.
or a bunch of stories.
that's going to involve omitting stuff.
that's going to involve making stuff up.

you've got to figure out what you're saying in the stories--not just what the stories are.
that doesn't mean you need to have a moral.
you just need to understand the heart of your story.
that's going to help you focus.

i forgot where i read it--maybe in this post--but a famous writer said something to the effect of "everybody has things to write about. the writer is the one who can figure out which things NOT to write about."

That's probably one of my main problems as a writer. Unless it feels "as urgent as a suicide note", I don't feel inspired to write.

A really depressing night gave me the inspiration to write some awesome poetry a while back, that kinda gave me the confidence needed to get back on the saddle.

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

it just needs to be something that needs to come out.
you have to convince yourself that the things that you have to say need to be heard.
that, ultimately, is what keeps me writing.

it's like when jay-z says "can't leave rap alone/the game needs me."
that's the underlying thing you need to believe about yourself.

personally, i know i can't stop writing, even if i want to, because the theater world needs to hear what i have to say. kids need to hear what i have to say. lots of people need to hear what i have to say.

and i need to get it out.

sig: "you'll have a knapsack full of jack after taxes."

step 2: I haven't figured out yet

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

-------
"Andy justifies my hate."
http://www.twitter.com/coatesvillain
http://coates.tumblr.com

you can definitely learn dialogue from a place like this.
you can definitely learn how to make your points quickly.
you can learn a lot about the give and take of conversation.
you can learn about human nature.

i consider my time on here work.
i would write it off on my taxes. if i paid for it.

sig: "you'll have a knapsack full of jack after taxes."

I've found a great many things here, but as far as the writing's concerned, I haven't found it to be that helpful.
You can't really learn dialogue by how people type. Two people in no near vicinity of each other - no dice. A mall maybe, but I just don't go here to see how people talk to one another. If you put all these folks together in a same room, you'd see how much this mask of anonymity holds their conviction and how quickly it fades. Can't really learn dialogue based on that knowledge.
I do find a lot of good reference tools here. More people on this site seem to know a good site to check out then most other places. Plus, I come here to let Janey berate me about books on a monthly basis.


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

there are certain people who type in a way that sounds conversational.
maybe i've just got an eye/ear for that.
but i really find this place to be an invaluable tool.
if nothing else, it keeps you writing everyday, and writing in a context where you can't possibly fail or do something wrong.
it's a no-pressure writing exercise.
it keeps your muscles fresh if you use it to keep your muscles fresh.

i hear what you're saying about dialogue, but i'm telling you: it works for me.

Here comes the Ax
And here comes the Smasher
Latinolition
Show us your ninnies

latinolition@gmail.com
www.myspace.com/latinolition

sig: "you'll have a knapsack full of jack after taxes."

It does keep the fingers fresh.
The no pressure exercise thing is a good point.
But as far as conversation, my lunch break spent outside in Center City does me much better.
I do enjoy the reference tools I find through here (the Rivera thing for example). If there's anything here as a writer I enjoy it's how much I find out about through other cats.

"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

Mech

It's easiest to write (and finish) when it feels urgent, like it's something you need to do.
When the inspiration hits, take heed. If it tends to hit when you're not near a computer or whatever, keep a little notebook.

As for finishing once you get past the hurdle of making a real start.. it just takes discipline. I like to make it pleasant-- I love being outside, so I'll take my laptop there.

Or I tend to write during vampire hours, which lowers my inhibition because I'm in my element at night.

My process always starts with characters in a scene. Sometimes it's like they talk to me, and other times it's kind of like I can see them in my mind visually.
I just write that scene and keep it because it always reminds of who they are supposed to be and makes sure they develop realistically. And if I suddenly feel like I see them in the future, I'll write it. I might tie it in later, or I might just use it for inspiration for some other development.

Whatever you do, it shouldn't be painful to get your story out. That's not enjoyable.

I start a screenwriting class tomorrow and hopefully in th enext eight weeks, my screenplay will be complete and tweaked. I usually have something spark me to write. Something I hear, see or a feeling I get. It is good to carry around a small notebook (have one in my purse)to jot down ideas.
**************************************
<--- Master of Metrosexuality
http://blackgirlsdontdate.blogspot.com
Black Girls Don't Date - Coming soon!
***************************************

Idea
Ponder Interesting Themes
Research
Outline
Edit Outline
Write
Edit
Edit
Edit Some More
Get Bored With Project/Feel Vague Sense of Satisfaction
Pick An Idea You Came Up With During Last Project
Start Over

I honestly feel research and editing are the most important stages of writing. Research allows you to focus on what you found interesting about your original idea, it helps you flesh out the themes you want to focus on, and, most importantly, you get ideas about plot and emotional points in the story. As for editing, you don't begin writing until you begin editing; everything before that is most likely crap hiding a gold mine.

Mech

I think it's important to figure out what work pace suits you.

I work at a daily newspaper, so the environment is busy, busy, busy. I gotta crank out the material, so I know the best thing for me is a tight deadline, whether i'm on an assignment or a personal project. Otherwise, it won't get done.

Figure out what suits your style. Do you need a project deadline? do you need to work at your own pace? That's something to consider.

but let's just say that it takes a lot of concentration.

________________

"Do you know what a nerd is? A nerd is a human being without enough Africa in him or her." © Brian Eno, "A Year With Swollen Appendices"

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

i took a creative writing class in junior year and writing storIES was a regular assignment. my motivator was pressure. besides the fact that the homework of writing or starting a story was at least weekly, i would put it off until night time so that i HAD to write something to turn in a few hours later. the result was some of the most creative work i've done in my life. i got all A's and was praised by my classmates for my creativity. so, pressure, if you can handle it and you're creative enough.

because I really do need that sort of practice in writing. I don't just "want to write a story" though, although writing them in a creative writing class would be a good start, and then maybe again down the road. this is my main problem right now i think: http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=6&topic_id=315091&mode=full#315291

peace
mike

http://theonlyblogthatmatters.wordpress.com
http://www.last.fm/user/mdrohan/

when (life events) happened to me people kept telling me i should write a book about it. doing that really doesn't interest me nor do i think a whole lot of people would care. memoirs about ordinary young people doing things or having things happen to them that they think are "extraordinary" (but they really aren't) always struck me as kind of narcissistic, indulgent, and ultimately preposterous. i much prefer fictionalization although not so much in the beat poets, that's just as bad as what i'm talking about with the memoirs. "but do you though" (c) hip-hop.

i know this is off-topic and not the motivation you need so disregard.

who the fuck am i to write a memoir at age 21? let alone have people want to read it? thats why whatever i write "may or may not" have really happened, or "may or may not" be based on what i've done. i believe that writing what you know leads to better ends for a lot of writers, but true events presented as true events are only interesting to strangers if they know your name. whatever i write, based on true events or not, will be categorized as fiction. lol

peace
mike

http://theonlyblogthatmatters.wordpress.com
http://www.last.fm/user/mdrohan/

And then I run with it.

I think and important thing that you are overlooking is your false starts. This to me is thinking too much about the story. Just let it happen, any writer will tell you of stories that they had no idea where they were going.

Just write, and the story a lot of times will lead itself, and often times surprise you.

I find it hard to write when I'm not really inspired, but sometimes just sitting down and forcing yourself to write, for me with some good music, I tend to come up with some real amazing pieces.

__________________________________

*Note to self: Add Sig*

...is to literally write. Simple as that.
Experience is the best teacher, one way to find out HOW you do it well is by doing it all the time. Think of it in terms of a scientist; you have to have enough data to make a proper analysis. Write alot, all the time to figure out the how/when/why of your writing.
I personally think it paramount to have an intense connection to the work you write. The material, the desire to see it finished (performed/sold to a studio/on a shelf at B&N), the act of writing, whatever it may be - there needs to be some strong reasoning behind it. If there's one thing I can't stand as a writer as well as a reader is half ass. If you don't care, sorry homie, neither will I. Just the apathetic times we live in.
As for my approach, I'm currently in something of a shift. Close to 90% of what I've written has come out of a desire to write it, a feeling of "Oh my Jesus, I have to get this out of my head and onto paper if for no other reason than to get it out of here." coupled with enjoying the actual process of writing. That other 10%, and pretty much everything I've written in the past 2 years, has been stuff I want to write coupled with a deadline. "I've got to write this memoir now while this particular part of my life is fresh in my mind.", "I've got to finish this play adaptation because the other guy is waiting for it." "I've got to finish the screenplay because we're already months into pre-production and we only have months to do it." (all of these responses are actual responses I've used in the past year) In thinking about it, I much rather prefer the former to the latter. The latter is just too related to the idea of "finishing" and not "writing", a slippery slope more concerned with "getting it done" than "making it good". I work well under a deadline, but I fault and see the deadline in a dreadful way. The last thing I should be feeling when I write is dread. It also doesn't help that I purposely slowed down my output (I was writing A LOT) in the past couple years. I don't get the impression you are at the same point of your writing career as I am, but I've hit a point where I have more than enough material but need to focus more on the industry aspect of it (meaning who cares how many plays/books/scripts you've written if you don't know any directors/agents/producers?), so I'm trying to marry the two so to speak.
Like all things in life, you got to want it. Trust, if you want it enough, you'll say "Fuck it!" to your own neurosis and start writing because you wont' be able to stand not doing it anymore (make sense?). A sort of 'driving yourself crazy to get there', but it is 'there'.
I've written over 40 plays, about a book's worth of poetry, a novel, half dozen NF books, a couple screenplays - I don't know, I hate when I get advice from people and not know their credentials. So if it does anything for ya, there ya go.
Hope this helps.
Peace

"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

Is accepting the fact that rough drafts aren't gonna be perfect.

The myth of 'inspiration' is just too damn alluring. The idea that we will be magically hit by this grand idea and just start churning out a masterpiece, as if our hands are being guided by some higher power. It's some beautiful bullshit.

But the fact is you can't just sit around and wait for an idea to hit you. You gotta work until you hit the idea. Just set aside a certain amount of time every day to write. And try not to look at it like 'Today I need to write Chapter 1'... just tell yourself 'Today I need to write for 2 hours'. It's doesn't need to be a huge chunk of time but with discipline and repetition you will get results.

So yeah, the best way to become a writer is by writing. Everybody says it. It just can't be emphasized enough. Write garbage, write gibberish... you're gonna have to wade through a lot of junk before you get to the good stuff. Don't let it discourage you, it's a process.

Another technique I've never tried, but it sounds fascinating... I hear about a lot of writers who have a stage in their process where they write individual plot points on little notecards, and then use a bulletin board and push pins to play around with sequencing their events. Kind of a cool, non linear approach I think. And it might be just what you need if you're feeling disjointed or like you're stuck at a certain point in your story.

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http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

I know you all are talking about "creative writing," and I'm more of a journalist -- I write for a small alt-weekly in SoCal -- but my biggest flaw as a writer is my inability to write whatever flows out of my brain and then edit it into something cohesive that I am proud of. I'm stopped by this subconscious compulsion to make the first draft the last draft, and that has led to LOTS of long nights on deadline spent staring for minutes and hours, at a blinking cursor, trying to formulate a sentence perfectly in my head before I type it. I'm getting better at not being so anal, especially because I DO have time constraints, but it's a large mental hurdle I haven't quite crossed.

So, yeah, I think forgetting the concept of "instant inspiration" is important. You just gotta start writing. But some people just can't conceive of that, for whatever reason.

___

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v318/75/122/810420595/n810420595_3955028_32.jpg

"You can't imbue awesomeness into something that actually sucks." - Steve Albini

http://www.mpsinger.com
http://twitter.com/mpsinger

Honestly my background is more visual arts than letters, but all the same advice still applies. It's gonna have to suck for a while before it gets good. It applies to writing, to art, to everything.

It's a lesson I have to re-learn everytime I touch a pencil/keyboard/mouse whatever. I try to look at it as sculpting. You start out with a big ugly ass rock, and you just gotta chip away at it until it's art. It's gonna look like a big ugly ass rock for a while but over time, who knows. Could be a statue. Or an ugly ass rock, only smaller. Only one way to find out!

I've never actually sculpted before. I guess that's how it works.

And in my (very limited) journalism experience, I know exactly what you are talking about. It's like I'm terrified to type out a bad sentence and have it staring back at me from the screen. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

i have thirty plus drafts of my first play on my computer.
as i get more experienced, i do less drafts.

sig: "you'll have a knapsack full of jack after taxes."

----------------------------------
I have a webcomic: www.watchthecomic.com

My webcomic has a page: www.facebook.com/watchyourheadcomic

Be it book, script, whatever, writing?

Co-sign on the urgency. Forget about formulating perfect sentences, just write, revise later. Revision is such an important part of the process in my opinion. I still have trouble with that, as probably most writers do.

Here is a quote I like from William Faulkner:

"The writer's only responsibility is to his art...He has a dream. It anguishes him so much he must get rid of it. He has no peace until then."

Also I agree about forcing yourself to write, such as exercises, or writing classes. I took a course like that where we specifically picked topics, etc. that you yourself would never write about on your own, and despite the lack of personal interest in your subject, it's up to you to craft an imaginative, entertaining, sound piece to help develop your writing, and more so, get comfortable with the process.

Y'all think I'm playin'?
______________________________________________________________________
This ain't a scene
it's a
got
damn
arms
race