Not your most favouritest books ever, but the books that in your opinon are the greatest works of the last century or so. I guess fiction only. No repeats, just add on if you don't see a particular book there. I'll put five on it:
"The Sound and the Fury" - William Faulkner "For Whom the Bell Tolls" - Ernest Hemingway "Song of Solomon" - Toni Morrison "Things Fall Apart" - Chinua Achebe "The Watchmen" - Alan Moore
Ahhh, four easy classics, and one new classic to appear edgy. Verrrrry pussy.
2. "good choice, good choice." In response to Reply # 1
my mother is a fish indeed. I didn't wanna just list faulkner all day long, cuz i love hiim so mush and I didn't wanna drool over him. Rather leave it up to other posters I figured.
3. "RE: Create a new literary canon (1900-2007)." In response to Reply # 0
1. Leslie M. Silko-Almanac of the Dead 2. Ayi Kwei Armah-Two Thousand Seasons 3. Alice Wlaker-The Color Purple 4. Varga Llosa-The War of the End of the World 5. Octavia Butler-Parable Of the Sower 6. The Alchemist
Yo, I love the way I am and can’t nobody out here change me Rearrange me, tame me, try to game me, you don’t play me When I grab the mic then shock the party spot Your rhymes are flip-flop, I’ll rock, hip-hop Non-stop, me nah stop rock You can touch
7. "That's the suspect choice." In response to Reply # 4
I'm wondering what people's biases are, that why i said not the favouritest books, but the books that represent literature the best. But I respect most choices.
That said, I'll ask for this post to be deleted if I see "The Secret" on this. im joking. im not joking. im joking...
I was wavering between cosigning on The Alchemist and nominating The Secret. There are others. How about Ishmael? There's always someone insisting that it's the truth. Or The Celestine Prophecy? Ten or fifteen years ago, someone would have nominated The Course in Miracles. I throw my hands up in despair.
17. "the more dangerous idea, I think," In response to Reply # 16 Tue May-22-07 12:51 PM by janey
is the business about blaming people if they're not materially successful. As though that's ANY gauge of merit. I mean, sure, you bet, rugged individualism, pull yourself up by the bootstraps and all, but that notion presupposes a level playing field, which has never existed in this or any country. So to make material success a virtue (and to make sure that there's a one to one correlation between attractive {read: Aryan} people and material success) is to propound a racist and classist philosophy.
The best thing about Ayn Rand is that she died on the same day as John Belushi, and was upstaged in her obituary by him. He was front page news and no one noticed her death. Oh boy would THAT have pissed her off!
5. "RE: Create a new literary canon (1900-2007)." In response to Reply # 0
1. "Ulysses" by James Joyce
-When I was a senior in high school we spent three months of everyday work on Hamlet. Three months. Obviously, people can spend a lifetime on Hamlet but 3 months is a long time for a highschool student to deal with a work that's entirely dialogue and stage directions and probably comes in under 200 pages. "Ulysses" is also above the vast majority of high school students, but at least it's long enough to work through for that period of time. If we're compiling a new canon, "Ulysses" is my new "Hamlet".
2. "The Long Goodbye" by Raymond Chandler
-It took Michael Chabon to make me realize that genre fiction deserves a seat at the literary table, so to speak. The hardboiled detective novel is part of American culture like... a bunch of things that are part of American culture. Baseball, maybe? Whatever. And it's really good.
3. "Three" by Flannery O'Connor
-I realize that this is a compilation, and of the two editions of it I prefer the one with "Everything that Rises Must Converge" because I like that story better than "A Good Man is Hard to Find". But because her individual works are shorter a good compilation is important.
4. "The Power and the Glory" by Graham Greene
-Yeah, another Catholic.
5. "Satanic Verses" by Salman Rushdie
-"Midnight's Children" is better, but not so much better that this choice is silly. Plus, how often does a novel make history? I think the answer is "not often" though I'm willing to be corrected.
6. "Blonde" by Joyce Carol Oates
-I like it. That's my only defense.
And I agree with most of the other stuff named that I've actually read. Though I think there's several Faulkner pieces I'd pick before "As I Lay Dying".
______________________________
"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"
yeah i had to do it for a modern lit course. I like it and think it should be on the list. It's clearly over-rated (it's like Illmatic times 1000 in scholars minds), but a good thing to sit there on the shelf and peek at every once in a while.
Yeah, chandler is interesting, and the more great genre fic, the better.
13. "RE: Oh Ulysses." In response to Reply # 11 Tue May-22-07 12:04 PM by Walleye
>It's clearly over-rated (it'slike Illmatic times 1000 in scholars >minds), but a good thing to sit there on the shelf and peek at every >once in a while.
It's not clear to me that it's overrated at all. I think you could cut it in half and it would be the two greatest novels ever written.
______________________________
"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"
6. "Here's five kinda obvious choices." In response to Reply # 0
And yes, I guess I like my fiction rooted in a larger real world historical context.
The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man - James Weldon Johnson The Grapes of Wrath - John Steinbeck The Great Gatsby - F. Scott Fitzgerald Libra - Don DeLillo Slaughterhouse-Five - Kurt Vonnegut
18. "RE: Here's five kinda obvious choices." In response to Reply # 6
>And yes, I guess I like my fiction rooted in a larger real >world historical context. > >The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man - James Weldon Johnson i support this one billion percent
>The Grapes of Wrath - John Steinbeck eh. isnt this already canonized?
>The Great Gatsby - F. Scott Fitzgerald and this also?
>Libra - Don DeLillo need to read. this guy is amazing.
>Slaughterhouse-Five - Kurt Vonnegut vonnegut is good.
JungleSouljah Member since Sep 24th 2002 14987 posts
Tue May-22-07 01:49 PM
20. "I'll take a crack at it" In response to Reply # 0
1. Something by Tom Wolfe. I really can't decide between Bonfire of the Vanities or Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test. I'd almost say both should be included because they're such different works and they illustrate his talent in both fiction and journalism.
2. Chesapeake, Hawai'i, or South Pacific by Michener. I know alot of people hate Michener and his sometimes slow pacing, but he definitely brings something to the table no one else does and he weaves beautiful multi-generational tales.
3. Can't Stop, Won't Stop by Jeff Chang. The best book written on hip hop and it's effect on it's generation. Sort of important given how influential hip hop is in our current society. And it should be mentioned that no one teaches a hip hop class these days without making at least a couple chapters of the book required reading.
4. Middlesex by Jefferey Eugenides. Bit of an easier pick given the Pulitzer and the ensuing buzz, but it's a fantastic piece of fiction.
5. House of God by Sam Shem. A sentimental pick on my part, but it should be included for the same reasons that Catch-22 is. It's a wonderful, satrical look at health care in the '70s and really captures the despondency of residency much in the same way that Catch-22 does with the military.
6. Harry Potter. I know we should wait until Deathly Hallows, but I think it's worth talking about. The most important 'children's series' since Narnia deserves mentioning in the canon.
21. "RE: I'll take a crack at it" In response to Reply # 20
>The most important >'children's series' since Narnia deserves mentioning in the >canon.
Does it get the "most important since..." tag because of it's sales or because it's that good. Because I actually prefer the Lemony Snicket series. It's never too early to introduce children to adult moral reasoning and the importance of having good taste.
______________________________
"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"
23. "have you read Adam Gopnik's children's book?" In response to Reply # 21
The King in the Window?
He says the reason he wrote it was that he was completely freaked out by the popularity of children's books that emphasized intuition over rationality. He was like, no way, if you're able to think, you should use that ability to solve problems.
Also, Philip Pullman's series is pretty remarkable in part because it is frank about moral ambiguity.
62. "RE: have you read Adam Gopnik's children's book?" In response to Reply # 23
>The King in the Window?
No, I haven't. Even when I was an actual child, I was a cranky old bastard so I never read very many children's books at all outside of the usual suspects. Since I've been an official grownup, I've only read the Harry Potter series and the Lemony Snicket series and one book in what is apparently going to a series by Ann Ursu.
I loved Lemony Snicket, Harry Potter is entertaining enough to keep reading and Ursu is a public Minnesota Twins fan so she's basically incapable of doing anything bad.
>He says the reason he wrote it was that he was completely >freaked out by the popularity of children's books that >emphasized intuition over rationality. He was like, no way, >if you're able to think, you should use that ability to solve >problems.
Is that really an identifiable trend in children's literature? I don't think I understand what he's talking about.
>Also, Philip Pullman's series is pretty remarkable in part >because it is frank about moral ambiguity.
Meh. Maybe I'm just being cranky again, but moral ambiguity doesn't seem that out of fashion to me.
______________________________
"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"
I forgot Lemony Snicket. I've read bits and pieces, but I haven't finished the series. It's certainly on my to do list. I should probably also plan on re-reading all of Potter once Book 7 is out.
I may also have to take a look at janey's recs.
This is why I don't get involved in book threads. Way over my head.
22. "Tom Wolfe over Hunter Thompson?" In response to Reply # 20
for shame.
Tom Wolfe suffers from a serious problem in his fiction: He gets way too far into a way too long book and then doesn't know how to end it so he just stops. I think there's value in his writing but I don't think we can say that either of his novels illustrate true genius.
He also suffers from a serious problem in his nonfiction, and that is that he sometimes inadvertently inserts himself into the action. Thompson said that the merry pranksters were all laughing behind their hands at him because he never really became a fly on the wall so whenever he was around in one of his ice cream suits they would just do what they wanted his writing to reflect and not what came naturally.
Compare Thompson's Hell's Angels with Wolfe's Electric Kool-Aid. I'll take the former a hundred times over the latter.
JungleSouljah Member since Sep 24th 2002 14987 posts
Tue May-22-07 06:25 PM
25. "I figured Thompson hadn't been mentioned because" In response to Reply # 22
it was agreed upon that he was canonical.
I'll agree with your critique of Wolfe on his latter two novels (he has three by the by) and Thompson is certainly the better gonzo writer. What if I said The Right Stuff instead of Electric Kool-Aid?
JungleSouljah Member since Sep 24th 2002 14987 posts
Tue May-22-07 09:46 PM
32. "I am Charlotte Simmons and an explanation of my" In response to Reply # 28
which I only read since it was researched at both my most hated institution of higher learning (Stanford) and my most loved (Duke). And he gave a fantastic commencement speech at Duke the year before I graduated, when his daughter graduated.
Well having not read The Right Stuff I can't say.
I would have said something about The Fountain, but since everyone's utter distaste for Ayn Rand was voiced earlier in the thread I decided to spare myself the public flogging. For the record, I enjoy The Fountain for many of the reasons everyone else hates it. I think the ideas of objectivism are worth discussing if only to point out why they are so discordant with a healthy society. And a part of me identifies with Roark.
Now if you really want to discuss a piece of shit, let's talk about Atlas Shrugged which I refused to finish. Fuck that horrendous piece of trash. There's not even a worthwhile narrative there. At least The Fountain has that going for it.
And furthermore my top 5 canon would have looked something like this:
1. Faulkner - The Sound and The Fury 2. Vonnegut - Cat's Cradle 3. Steinbeck - East of Eden 4. Rand - The Fountain (fuck it, I'll say it) 5. Middlesex (just to keep it interesting with something contemporary)
But I was attempting to avoid things that had already been said and avoid books that should already be considered canonical.
41. "LOL how could I forget Charlotte Simmons?" In response to Reply # 32
The best thing about that book was the careful dissection of the various uses of the word "fuck." But otherwise I thought it was so trivial that I wasn't even willing to skim back into it to find that page.
JungleSouljah Member since Sep 24th 2002 14987 posts
Thu May-24-07 11:46 AM
59. "Hush, I know it's The Fountainhead" In response to Reply # 41
I was post-call when I wrote that. Have pity.
As for Mr. Wolfe, I am Charlotte Simmons was not good. Men in their 60s should not be writing about what goes on in college, even if they've done extensive research and have a child or two currently attending university. It never works out. You can't capture the attitude and atmosphere unless you're experiencing it personally. And that absolutely showed through in his book. Nothing about it rang remotely true to me.
The end of A Man in Full may be one of the worst copouts I've ever seen in the history of literature. But I still enjoy Bonfire and Electric Kool Aid.
63. "that's what I'm SAYing" In response to Reply # 59
The end of A Man in Full and the end of Bonfire and the end of Charlotte Simmons.
He writes and writes and writes and then goes, oh, okay I guess it's long enough, bordering on too long, and then he just fucking stops writing and ties everything up neatly and just says how it all turns out without showing it or really writing about it.
JungleSouljah Member since Sep 24th 2002 14987 posts
Thu May-24-07 05:55 PM
66. "Yeah but at least the ending off Bonfires was realistic" In response to Reply # 63
Man in Full was a RIDICULOUS cop out. With the whole dude going crazy and thinking he's Zeus? Come theeee fuck on.
I honestly don't remember Charlotte Simmons ending and even though it's sitting on the bookshelf (I was hoping for a return to form) I refuse to go re-read the last couple chapters. All I recall is that it was a terribly contrived ending where Charlotte got her heart broken in some ludicrous manner. And I think something amazingly benificent happened to the frat guy. Right?
Bonfires has the best ending. And I don't think it's all that ridiculous. I mean he ends up goin to jail.
27. "RE: I'll take a crack at it" In response to Reply # 20 Tue May-22-07 06:33 PM by jane eyre
>6. Harry Potter. I know we should wait until Deathly Hallows, >but I think it's worth talking about. The most important >'children's series' since Narnia deserves mentioning in the >canon.
i love the harry potter series. i don't think j.k. rowling is that great of a writer, though. is that a good enough reason to not include the series? out of the blue, when you mentioned narnia it reminded me of the lewis essay on children's writing: "once in a hotel dining-room I said, rather too loudly, 'I loathe prunes.' 'So do I,' came an unexpected six-year-old voice from another table. Sympathy was instantaneous. Neither of us thought it funny. We both knew that prunes are far too nasty to be funny. That is the proper meeting between man and child as independent personalities."
44. "Really the only Kerouac you need to read is On The Road, Dharma" In response to Reply # 30
Bums and Big Sur.
To me, that gives the three sides.....
On The Road: young, travel/excess/adventure. Dharma Bums: slightly older, still adventures but adding more spirituality to the quest. Big Sur: A little older still, bitter, dissillusioned, in the throes of alcoholism and lamenting lost youth/innocence.
And that's it.
After I read On The Road when I was 16 I went on a Kerouac tear for awhile......but those are the three books of his that actually stick with me.
35. "RE: Create a new literary canon (1900-2007)." In response to Reply # 0
An American Tragedy - Theodore Dreiser Journey To The End Of The Night - Louis Ferdinand Celine The Ragazzi - Pier Paolo Pasolini Babbitt - Sinclair Lewis Berlin Alexanderplatz - Alfred Doblin Nadja - Andre Breton The Sun Also Rises - Ernest Hemingway Tender Is The Night - F. Scott Fitzgerald Thief's Journal - Jean Genet Rabbit, Run - John Updike Call Of The Wild - Jack London Collected Stories - Isaac Babel Ficciones - Jorge Luis Borges
42. "You think I'm an alias?" In response to Reply # 37
That's hilarious, i've never been accused of such. Besides, I post nothing like Maurice(i assume you mean Bridgetown). Just because we're both Barbadians! How dare you!
43. "Yep, I do." In response to Reply # 42 Wed May-23-07 06:31 PM by kurlyswirl
Mostly because I don't recall seeing your name in PTP before and it's rare that a non-PTP regular would make such a well thought out post. It's usually "I just saw City of God!" or "What time/channel is Lost on?" lol
>That's hilarious, i've never been accused of such. Besides, >I post nothing like Maurice(i assume you mean Bridgetown).
Yes! Bridgetown! I couldn't for the life of me remember his (ahem, *your*) okp name, just that it started with a B. That's pretty bad, considering he was one of my first myspace friends, lol.
Hey, that's another reason I suspect you - Bridgetown hasn't been around much lately.
So there. :-p
>Just because we're both Barbadians! How dare you!
JungleSouljah Member since Sep 24th 2002 14987 posts
Thu May-24-07 11:49 AM
60. "*hey, over here kurly*" In response to Reply # 48
*in hushed tones* I agree with you. Something smells foul in Denmark. Let's meet out behind your inbox. We should get to the bottom of this.
P.S. I'm not sure one can really meet behind one's inbox. And I don't have any idea how we would get to the bottom of this. But I like adding an air of noir-ish intrigue to PTP.
My fiancee calls me the "smartest yet craziest" person she's ever known.
And if I'm wired it's au naturale. I haven't had caffeine in the morning since... ever. I used to make the mistake of drinking lattes in the afternoon, but I squashed that after I pulled an all night with the help of a triple mocha latte and about 30 oz of Moutain Dew. I was a jittery mess at 8am and wanted to vomit.
That's my version of rock bottom.
And to get this post back on track: books - let's talk about em.
>*in hushed tones* I agree with you. Something smells foul in >Denmark. Let's meet out behind your inbox. We should get to >the bottom of this. > >P.S. I'm not sure one can really meet behind one's inbox.
I think one meets *inside* one's inbox. *struggles to pull mind away from the edge of the gutter*
>And I don't have any idea how we would get to the bottom of >this. But I like adding an air of noir-ish intrigue to PTP.
JungleSouljah Member since Sep 24th 2002 14987 posts
Thu May-24-07 06:09 PM
67. "We should go and find Sweet Joseph to help us" In response to Reply # 64
He seems to have cornered the noir market lately.
Seriously though when I first saw this post I said to myself "Who is this poseur?" Which is lame considering we all have aliases on a website... so we're all sort of posing. But the name was completely unfamiliar to me also. Maybe he'll stay and discuss other fun things.
JungleSouljah Member since Sep 24th 2002 14987 posts
Fri May-25-07 08:15 AM
72. "This might have been during your 2 or 3 month hiatus" In response to Reply # 70
Sweet Joseph is Joseph Gordon Levitt star of such contemporary noir films like 'Brick' and 'The Lookout'. ms. janey told an entertaining tale of seeing The Lookout or Brick with an elderly gentleman near by who kept calling JGL 'Sweet Joseph'. It's a wonderful story.
JungleSouljah Member since Sep 24th 2002 14987 posts
Fri May-25-07 11:47 AM
77. "Thank you for upping that" In response to Reply # 74
I had to go handle several of my schizophrenic patients. We found one of them in the wrong room, sleeping in bed, refusing to move back to his room. Fun times.
49. "RE: Create a new literary canon (1900-2007)." In response to Reply # 0
beloved - morrison blood meridian - mccarthy underworld - delillo house of leaves - danielewski invisible man - ellison watership down - adams gravity's rainbow - pynchon man in the high castle - dick neuromancer - gibson fahrenheit 451 - bradbury
51. "what don't you ike about McCarthy?" In response to Reply # 50
Because I'm thinking that you don't like William Faulkner. Maybe you don't like overly expressionistic writing (what writers call 'muscular' writing) or something else...
But on Mccarthy, I don't know what it was about blood meridian, it just didn't catch me that much and seemed somewhat boring...It might of just been a bad time for me to read it, I own it so I'll probably give it another shot later
52. "mccarthy has the most beautiful prose imo..." In response to Reply # 50
especially, out of people who are currently writing. the big three with him are blood meridian, suttree, and the road. if you dont like any of those its safe to say you wont like anything by him. and ill admit he isnt for everybody.
im excited about the coen bros joint comin out soon based on no country.
myself is sculptor of your body’s idiom: the musician of your wrists; the poet who is afraid only to mistranslate a rhythm in your hair... -E.E. Cummings
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