Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby Pass The Popcorn topic #240898

Subject: "Okayplayer Movie Club: Brazil by Terry Gilliam" This topic is locked.
Previous topic | Next topic
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85319 posts
Mon Dec-25-06 11:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Okayplayer Movie Club: Brazil by Terry Gilliam"


  

          

Already there's been some division about the film on the board. I'm VERY interested to see what everyone has to say about this one.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
wens the deadline?
Dec 25th 2006
1
Brazil's in HD Thursday on UniversalHD
Dec 25th 2006
2
The HD version of this is like watching an ENTIRELY NEW FILM
Jan 01st 2007
28
Some HD screen captures here (link)
Jan 01st 2007
29
I will be discussing this one with ya'll.
Dec 25th 2006
3
This is in my Top 2 of favorite movies of all time
Dec 25th 2006
4
What's the 90 minute version like? I've only seen director's cut.
Dec 25th 2006
5
      A lot of the darker tones of the film are weakned quite a bit
Dec 26th 2006
9
okay... i'll gladly join in for this one
Dec 25th 2006
6
I can get down with this one. One of my all-time favorites...
Dec 26th 2006
7
Which cut? n/m
Dec 26th 2006
8
most overrated movie in the history of ever.
Dec 26th 2006
10
Care to explicate?
Dec 26th 2006
12
most overrated movie in the history of ever.
Dec 26th 2006
11
I really didn't care for this film
Dec 28th 2006
13
saw the director's cut...
Dec 28th 2006
14
DeNiro's most overlooked performance...
Dec 28th 2006
15
Overlooked? He was in one scene the whole movie
Dec 28th 2006
16
      you didn't even finish the movie!
Dec 28th 2006
17
           I didn't have to finish the movie to see that 4 minute scene.
Dec 29th 2006
21
                If you think Harry Tuttle's an insignificant role, you missed a LOT.
Dec 29th 2006
24
weird as fuck.. but good...
Dec 29th 2006
18
I like the direction more than I do the writing.
Dec 29th 2006
19
      I agree, there are a lot of memorable images in Brazil.
Dec 29th 2006
22
I want to like this film, but I don't get it
Dec 29th 2006
20
Okay, since no one else is talking, I'll retort the best that I can:
Dec 29th 2006
23
So okay, I read a lot of sci-fi in high school
Dec 30th 2006
25
Your points are incredibly valid, but I've still gotta say...
Jan 01st 2007
27
Like many films about postmodernity...
Dec 31st 2006
26
so, i FINALLY watched this for the first time. some thoughts
Jan 18th 2007
30
I'm still undecided on whether to watch this . . .
Jul 04th 2007
31
Watch it.
Jul 05th 2007
32

araQual
Charter member
42162 posts
Mon Dec-25-06 12:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "wens the deadline?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i have to cop some shit to smoke before i attempt to watch this.

V.

---
http://confessionsofacurlymind.com
https://soundcloud.com/confessionsofacurlymindredux
https://soundcloud.com/generic80sbadguy
https://soundcloud.com/miles_matheson

DROkayplayerâ„¢

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

handle
Charter member
17823 posts
Mon Dec-25-06 01:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "Brazil's in HD Thursday on UniversalHD"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Thu, December 28 11:30 PM DOUBLE FEATURE WEEK
BRAZIL

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
handle
Charter member
17823 posts
Mon Jan-01-07 03:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "The HD version of this is like watching an ENTIRELY NEW FILM"
In response to Reply # 2


          

It's the North american release, but the picture quality is better than ANY other time I've seen the movie, and I've seen the film 3 times in art theaters, on VHS, on TV, on Laserdisc and on both versions of the Criterion DVD.

if you have any access to the HD version I HIGHLY suggest you watch it.

It's in compressed (but high quality) on alt.binaires.hdtv . I'll post some screens hots in a bit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
handle
Charter member
17823 posts
Mon Jan-01-07 07:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "Some HD screen captures here (link)"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Here are some TIFFs from the 1920x1080 HD capture.


They were compressed before I TIFF'd em, but it shows what type detail shows up in HD.

http://www.therootsarchive.com/brazil/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
42244 posts
Mon Dec-25-06 02:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "I will be discussing this one with ya'll."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

johnbook
Charter member
65030 posts
Mon Dec-25-06 03:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "This is in my Top 2 of favorite movies of all time"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The older I get, the more realistic this film becomes.

When I bought the Criterion box set, I saw the 90 minute version for the first time and thought "what the hell is this?" I missed it when it was broadcast on TV, and talk about bad.







DONATE THIS SEASON:
http://www.hawaiifoodbank.org
***
THE RUN-OFF GROOVE: a column, not a bloghttp://www.musicforamerica.org/node/113298

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85319 posts
Mon Dec-25-06 03:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "What's the 90 minute version like? I've only seen director's cut."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

I know it's got a "happy ending", but you could possibly go into a bit more detail on the changes?

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
johnbook
Charter member
65030 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 11:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "A lot of the darker tones of the film are weakned quite a bit"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Here are a few links where you can find out about the "Love Conquers All" version, along with subtle differences in the original version shown in the US, UK, and Japan:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/movies/brazil-faq/






JOHN BOOK'S MYSPACE
http://www.myspace.com/crutmusic

THE RUN-OFF GROOVE: a column, not a blog
http://www.musicforamerica.org/node/113336

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Mon Dec-25-06 04:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
6. "okay... i'll gladly join in for this one"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

just lemme know when y'all ready

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
7723 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 12:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "I can get down with this one. One of my all-time favorites..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

While I'd be interested in seeing the cut version, I don't really want it to ruin the way I feel about the film.

The ending of the director's cut is really what sealed its greatness for me.



"Being the bigger man is overrated." -- Huey (The Boondocks)

myspace.com/dozingoff

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14480 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 03:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
8. "Which cut? n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-- Nate

_
http://www.yothatsmyjawn.com
http://soundcloud.com/nate-3-0
http://wickedawesomebookcovers.tumblr.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

hideyaface
Member since Mar 26th 2006
1256 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 10:23 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "most overrated movie in the history of ever."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

one big pile o' shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85319 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 11:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "Care to explicate?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

hideyaface
Member since Mar 26th 2006
1256 posts
Tue Dec-26-06 10:24 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "most overrated movie in the history of ever."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

one big pile o' shit.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Sleepy
Charter member
6942 posts
Thu Dec-28-06 05:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
13. "I really didn't care for this film"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I couldn't finish it. I felt like I had been watching for hours, and in actuality only 45 minutes had passed.

Not enough was explained and the movie just seemed to move with no clear direction. I'll never watch it again.

You're such pests...now, what is it you want? In your depths of your ignorance, what is it you want? Well, whatever it is you want, I can't deliver because I just don't see it. - Orson Welles


Never Tired, Always Sleepy

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

jasonprague
Member since Sep 29th 2005
1900 posts
Thu Dec-28-06 07:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "saw the director's cut..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

and to be honest the shit was just too long but other than that i definitely enjoyed it...


PEACE

"The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting." - Kundera

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

okaycomputer
Member since Dec 02nd 2002
8090 posts
Thu Dec-28-06 04:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "DeNiro's most overlooked performance..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I don't have much else to add...it's been a while since I've seen it and I probably won't get my hands on it anytime soon.

Great movie though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Sleepy
Charter member
6942 posts
Thu Dec-28-06 07:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
16. "Overlooked? He was in one scene the whole movie"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

It was more of a cameo than anything.

I feel the same way about his scene as I do with Don Cheadle in Rush Hour 2.

You're such pests...now, what is it you want? In your depths of your ignorance, what is it you want? Well, whatever it is you want, I can't deliver because I just don't see it. - Orson Welles


Never Tired, Always Sleepy

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
okaycomputer
Member since Dec 02nd 2002
8090 posts
Thu Dec-28-06 08:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "you didn't even finish the movie!"
In response to Reply # 16


          

and yes, overlooked...regardless of how much time he spent on screne, how ofter do you hear "I loved DeNiro's performance in Brazil"

ask a group of people DeNiro's funniest performance and they'll probably say "Meet the Parents"

He absolutely killed a small role in a movie that your average american movie-goer hasn't seen.

So in conclusion...overlooked.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Sleepy
Charter member
6942 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 05:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
21. "I didn't have to finish the movie to see that 4 minute scene."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

The thing about it is that everytime this movie comes up, his name is mentioned. The role is rather insignificant. I really consider it more of a cameo than anything.

Everyone knows that he was in the movie. Absolutely everyone.

You're such pests...now, what is it you want? In your depths of your ignorance, what is it you want? Well, whatever it is you want, I can't deliver because I just don't see it. - Orson Welles


Never Tired, Always Sleepy

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85319 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 10:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "If you think Harry Tuttle's an insignificant role, you missed a LOT."
In response to Reply # 21
Fri Dec-29-06 10:14 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Harry Tuttle is to Brazil what Harry Lime is to The Third Man. You don't need to be in more than a scene or two to make an impact on a film.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

iLLoGiCz
Charter member
2688 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 12:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
18. "weird as fuck.. but good..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

terry gilliam is strange..
but this is like "fear & loathing" meets "1984" meets "flying circus"..
the performances were stellar though..
and the writing is on point...

peace

------------------------------------------
REP MUZIK, TIL DEATH DO US:
http://www.myspace.com/boxcutterknow1edge
http://www.soundclick.com/boxcutterknow1edge

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85319 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 12:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "I like the direction more than I do the writing."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

And by direction I don't mean the literal direction of the plot. I mean the creation of a world and the exploration of so many different facets of that world. The writing is appropriately witty and necessary for creating dialogue to bring characters around to these new places in order for them to experience these things with us. But I think the direction, the unity of the vision, is what makes this film.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
rorschach
Member since Nov 10th 2004
7723 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 07:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "I agree, there are a lot of memorable images in Brazil."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Officers tearing through the ceiling...

Sam's dream about Jill in the clouds...

The scene in the chamber where Sam's "dream" begins...

IMHO, the reason Brazil is so good is the visual imagery. While everything else from acting to the writing is on point, the visuals were more than enough. Icing on the cake.

BTW, in regards to DeNiro's scene, it's good because it's so bizarre.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 01:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "I want to like this film, but I don't get it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Other criticisms echo my own -- I seriously started this movie about 5 times before I finally finished because it drags so much, and that time I finally finished it was a major piece of will power. I'll admit I didn't re-watch it before I posted this, because I kept clamming up at the thought of going through with it again. I might do it before this sinks, but then again I just might not.

Basically, much of the film feels like a re-tread to me:

A bloated, distant beauracracy? WOW -- cutting, that satire there.
Invasive government police? IT'S LIKE HE CAN SEE THE FUTURE!
Modern living disrupting personal relationships? It's like he looked at art from the 1920s or something! Amazing!
Man dissatisfied with life finds revelation in revolutionary female love interest? What a totally unique romance!

I don't get the appeal -- I've read 1984, I've read the Brave New World, I've read Fahrenheit 451, I've seen Terry Gilliam's other pieces of whimsical fantasy, I've seen huge numbers of dystopian fantasies, and this one just doesn't click with me. It seriously lifts central elements from each of the works I just mentioned -- Big Brother from 1984, strict social hierarchy from Brave New World, revolutionary love interest from Fahrenheit 451, and all the art direction you know and love in every other Terry Gilliam film.

I mean, it's Gilliam so it has all the fingerprints of his talent, and as far as these dystopian things go, it hits all the notes and hits them rather predictably, but coming to it as basically the last of all the dystopian fictions I consumed, I'd have to say I'm pretty disappointed in it. Frankly, I'm hesitant to even class it as a sci-fi -- it's more just a cheesy fantasy with a non-descript time setting.

Still, given the paucity of sci-fi film which actually makes any effort to be something besides a space soap opera or an action movie with lasers, I suppose it's refreshing in that sense. Worth watching for serious film buffs to admire Terry Gilliam's handiwork, but nothing particularly ground-breaking in light of the huge number of other works which basically do what this film does, only better.

In the end, I'd rather watch Blade Runner again, then read a Brave New World and call it a day.

If a fan of the film could give a detailed analysis of exactly what works for them, I'd be curious to hear that. The art direction is pure Gilliam magic, I know that, but that story? How is it NOT one huge rip-off, and poorly paced at that?

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
85319 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 10:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "Okay, since no one else is talking, I'll retort the best that I can:"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

>Other criticisms echo my own -- I seriously started this
>movie about 5 times before I finally finished because it drags
>so much, and that time I finally finished it was a major piece
>of will power. I'll admit I didn't re-watch it before I
>posted this, because I kept clamming up at the thought of
>going through with it again. I might do it before this sinks,
>but then again I just might not.

I recommend it. I really think rewatching movies at different points in your life make all the difference in the world, especially films that give you strong negative opinions.

>
>Basically, much of the film feels like a re-tread to me:
>
>A bloated, distant beauracracy? WOW -- cutting, that satire
>there.
>Invasive government police? IT'S LIKE HE CAN SEE THE FUTURE!
>Modern living disrupting personal relationships? It's like he
>looked at art from the 1920s or something! Amazing!
>Man dissatisfied with life finds revelation in revolutionary
>female love interest? What a totally unique romance!
>
>I don't get the appeal -- I've read 1984, I've read the Brave
>New World, I've read Fahrenheit 451, I've seen Terry Gilliam's
>other pieces of whimsical fantasy, I've seen huge numbers of
>dystopian fantasies, and this one just doesn't click with me.
>It seriously lifts central elements from each of the works I
>just mentioned -- Big Brother from 1984, strict social
>hierarchy from Brave New World, revolutionary love interest
>from Fahrenheit 451, and all the art direction you know and
>love in every other Terry Gilliam film.

But see, there's a problem inherent in that argument, and it's the problem with every "there's no original messages anymore" argument. Those things don't seem unique because they continue to be relevant, and when issues continue to be relevant, satire will continue to base their stories on these problems. The originality comes in the vision, in the delivery of it, and it's my belief that what you call the "art direction" is including the story, the characters, the world of the film. Every little thing is an absolutely important detail, so you can watch this movie several times and still not get the ENTIRE vision of the future. It's not just a visual thing, it's the storytelling through the visuals as the plot progresses.

>I mean, it's Gilliam so it has all the fingerprints of his
>talent, and as far as these dystopian things go, it hits all
>the notes and hits them rather predictably, but coming to it
>as basically the last of all the dystopian fictions I
>consumed, I'd have to say I'm pretty disappointed in it.
>Frankly, I'm hesitant to even class it as a sci-fi -- it's
>more just a cheesy fantasy with a non-descript time setting.

It doesn't classify well, that's what I love about it. And I doubt that the whole thing, especially the end, was predictable to you. I mean, sure, if you've seen a bunch of Terry Gilliam you get a feel of how things will go, but that doesn't make the experience of watching events unfold less pleasurable.

>Still, given the paucity of sci-fi film which actually makes
>any effort to be something besides a space soap opera or an
>action movie with lasers, I suppose it's refreshing in that
>sense. Worth watching for serious film buffs to admire Terry
>Gilliam's handiwork, but nothing particularly ground-breaking
>in light of the huge number of other works which basically do
>what this film does, only better.

What exactly do you feel this film "does"? For me, I think this Gilliamesque pessimism combined with the wicked sense of humor combined with the absurdist visuals...turning THAT into the "standard dystopian tale" is something no other film has achieved to the degree that this one has. No "Brave New World" style vision of the future used such absurdist imagery, or gets so much laughter. You might even argue that not many views of the future get too much darker than this one. I think this film does a number of things, many of which are better than any attempts by other directors, specifically the VERY difficult task of handling pessimistic humor and making it hit so consistently within the context of science-fiction social satire (nice alliteration).

>In the end, I'd rather watch Blade Runner again, then read a
>Brave New World and call it a day.

I think both of them achieve different things than Brazil does.

>If a fan of the film could give a detailed analysis of exactly
>what works for them, I'd be curious to hear that. The art
>direction is pure Gilliam magic, I know that, but that story?
>How is it NOT one huge rip-off, and poorly paced at that?

The pace you could argue, especially when in the sections where he's merely "showing us the world," not moving along the plot. The plot is admittedly rather thin. BUT I think there is a story there, and the story allows us to see this vision that truly is a one-of-a-kind, hilarious, and potentially brilliant creation. It's hit-and-miss in terms of sheer moviemaking and storytelling, but I think that's a product of the ambition.

For beer lovers: http://thebeertravelguide.com
For movie lovers: http://russellhainline.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
celery77
Member since Aug 04th 2005
25307 posts
Sat Dec-30-06 03:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "So okay, I read a lot of sci-fi in high school"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>I recommend it. I really think rewatching movies at different
>points in your life make all the difference in the world,
>especially films that give you strong negative opinions.

Well, it was about exactly one year ago that I watched it (I spent Christmas last year in my friend's empty apartment finally laboring through it) so I don't think it's going to unfold too much more for me at this point. I mean, I own it (it was a gift, a very good one) so I'll definitely re-watch it at some point. I dunno, you really have to be in the right mood for this one.

>But see, there's a problem inherent in that argument, and it's
>the problem with every "there's no original messages anymore"
>argument. Those things don't seem unique because they continue
>to be relevant, and when issues continue to be relevant,
>satire will continue to base their stories on these problems.
>The originality comes in the vision, in the delivery of it,
>and it's my belief that what you call the "art direction" is
>including the story, the characters, the world of the film.
>Every little thing is an absolutely important detail, so you
>can watch this movie several times and still not get the
>ENTIRE vision of the future. It's not just a visual thing,
>it's the storytelling through the visuals as the plot
>progresses.

I know, I hate the "no idea is original" sentiment as well, but the elements I mentioned felt like reminders of other works I had enjoyed, and not really fully developed points like they were in the other work. 1984 FULLY explores Big Brother, to the extent that it's taken on a whole cultural baggage itself. Brave New World FULLY explores the social hierarchies, whereas it just comes up as a footnote in Brazil, just a quick detail that disappears rather completely.

The Fahrenheit 451 connection, yeah -- that's not that strong. I think mainly I don't like stories where it's romance or love that saves the protagonist. Like he'd be nothing if it wasn't for the girl. It's a sort of weird masculine desire for a female to fill in all their holes, and you see it time and time again. I guess I'd just rather have the character discover and explore himself, and not have this female icon for him to pour everything into.

Also the beauracracy satire thing just gets old. Waiting in lines and rubber-stamping lol. I mean, we've all been to the DMV and traded stories and bitched about it and etc. etc. etc. It's like pointing out that politicians sometimes fib, it's just not very insightful.

>What exactly do you feel this film "does"? For me, I think
>this Gilliamesque pessimism combined with the wicked sense of
>humor combined with the absurdist visuals...turning THAT into
>the "standard dystopian tale" is something no other film has
>achieved to the degree that this one has. No "Brave New World"
>style vision of the future used such absurdist imagery, or
>gets so much laughter. You might even argue that not many
>views of the future get too much darker than this one. I think
>this film does a number of things, many of which are better
>than any attempts by other directors, specifically the VERY
>difficult task of handling pessimistic humor and making it hit
>so consistently within the context of science-fiction social
>satire (nice alliteration).

Your point about the humor is a good one. Too many works that treat this dystopian kind of thing never break to smile ONCE. The scenes with his mother are funny, if not a little misplaced, but yeah, the humor is definitely one thing that makes this film stand out.

Otherwise like I said above, I think it alludes to elements more than it actually explores them. Overall it's almost just a romantic comedy. It's more about love and cheap satire than it is about any real exploration of these ideas which are alluded to in the film.

>>In the end, I'd rather watch Blade Runner again, then read a
>>Brave New World and call it a day.
>
>I think both of them achieve different things than Brazil
>does.

Right, I do too, but like I said, I think they achieve more, which is why I prefer them. (I know I threw Blade Runner in there tangentially, it's just my favorite film sci-fi of all time, that's the only connection.)

>The pace you could argue, especially when in the sections
>where he's merely "showing us the world," not moving along the
>plot. The plot is admittedly rather thin. BUT I think there is
>a story there, and the story allows us to see this vision that
>truly is a one-of-a-kind, hilarious, and potentially brilliant
>creation. It's hit-and-miss in terms of sheer moviemaking and
>storytelling, but I think that's a product of the ambition.

Right, I definitely like it for what it is -- a huge fight against the studio in the name of artistic freedom, a very very imaginative and creative piece to look at, and one of the FEW sci-fi films that is ANYTHING besides a space soap opera.

I just don't see it as this particularly great or enjoyable film experience, and as far as sci-fi's ability to show us an alternate future, a different version of our society, and really explore certain social theories or dynamics in a way that illuminates the present day, I think it fails. It's just a love story with some funny scenes. I swear, It's more RomCom than anything really insightful.

Having typed all this, I'll have to watch it again soon. Come on people, chime the fuck in! I know lots of folk have seen it.

___________

HOPE!
https://vine.co/v/i7JjIBL3Qix
https://vine.co/v/i7JtqEFwxDu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
42244 posts
Mon Jan-01-07 05:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "Your points are incredibly valid, but I've still gotta say..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

...it's still a masterpiece. I am in the minority when I say I didn't like Time Bandits at all (it's one of those films I think you had to see as a kid to really love...I didn't, so I don't). I say that because I find Gilliam fascinating and amazing, but not infallible. I think he's made 3 genuine masterpieces (Brazil, 12 Monkeys, Fear and Loathing) and another great film in The Fisher King...but he's certainly not beyond criticism (is anyone, really?)

That being said...you bring up great points. The story is thin, but I think when I first saw it (maybe 2 years ago) I was hooked when in the first minute or two there's a voiceover interview on TV with the Prime Minister and they say something along the lines of "You've been fighting this war for 10 years and clearly they're winning...what do you have to say?" and he says, "Beginner's luck!" - that, to me, is on some shit that's hilarious right now because...well, you know.

Anyway, the art direction in Brazil is beyond amazing. I LOVED the scenes in Sam's office with the desk being tugged back and forth, and the mob running through the Ministry of Information's facilities...brilliant in it's simplicity really. Almost the Office Space before Office Space, if you will. I know what you're thinking - "OH! Someone commenting on the monotony of office work! He's thinking what I'M thinking! How revolutionary!" - but really, it kind of was. He wasn't doing anything DIFFERENT but it was in a different way. Hell, The Apartment spoke on the monotony of office work...but Brazil was the first film (I've seen, anyway) to do it in the way that was parodied for years to come. The beauracracy, the lack of ambition, etc. Still relevant today.

The director's cut is great but it almost feels uneven in that certain things are just overexplained (love story) or underexplained (Robert DeNiro/Harry Tuttle). Much as I love the film...it's certainly uneven in many parts. I love Gilliam, but if he had his way, his films would have $400 million dollar budgets and 6 hour runtimes. His dream sequences, in both this and The Fisher King, are pretty ambitions but they are a little much in certain places.

I dunno, I like it...even if it goes against a lot of my general principles (longer than it needs to be, art over substance, thin story, etc.), but it's still a great film. I can't really explain it other than it's Gilliam.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Sun Dec-31-06 12:00 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "Like many films about postmodernity..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Dec-31-06 12:08 AM by Nettrice

  

          

Brazil begins with a fairy tale/fantasy. The protagonist, Sam Lowry, is an angel/warrior who saves the damsel-in-distress (Jill) and the world from destruction. The dream is an eternal desire, the last wish of a brain dead man. In reality Sam Lowry is a casualty, not a hero.

In his films Gilliam loves to comment on prisons, both of the mind and the body. His cinematic prisons are institutions and the urban environment. The bad guys are bureaucrats and administrators who are so devoid of emotion and humanity that they appear robotic in their movements and interactions. The good guys are living off the grid (labeled terrorists...hmmmm).

Starting with a dream we are able to see that Sam is more than a robot. His desire is the desire of any person stuck in a maze (or a cubicle).

This is why I like this film.

Brazil is an example of postmodernity much like Blade Runner and others but it does not give us a vision of a post-apocalyptic world. This is a world we already live in, a possible world we could all live in if we give into corporations, over-population, and technology (which has not progressed since 1975). Like Blade Runner Brazil shows us the world miles and miles above the surface of the planet. 12 Monkeys turns the world 180 degrees; the people live under the surface. In these films the sky, nature is non-existent. In Brazil class (and race) are nonexistent...where's the lower class?

This is why I don't like the film.

In Brazil the only escape is lobotomy that renders the person trapped forever in a dream (in his mind). This film compresses space and time, so that in the beginning we are not aware of where we are in the story. Are we in a mythic fantasy or the ugly retro-future world? As the film progresses we realize that Sam Lowry is reluctantly being forced off the grid, so to speak, by a administrative mistake not of his making. He just wants to do the right thing and get the girl.

I love Brazil because it reminds me of a choice I made as the child of a computer programmer. I never wanted to work in a cubicle and I never wanted to be a bureaucrat. I was sad when Harry Tuttle gets erased by the excess (paper) of the world. This is when I realized that Lowry's mind was someplace else. What I was watching was not real.

I give the film a B+

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

dro
Charter member
7201 posts
Thu Jan-18-07 01:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
30. "so, i FINALLY watched this for the first time. some thoughts"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i liked it on the whole. definitely a crazy movie, in terms of cinematography and set, costume, etc. kind of a half way point between Metropolis and Michel (Gondry).

also, minus the obvious mention of the movie and the "here's looking at you, kid," there were meant to be Casablanca undertones in this movie, right? while fundamentally different than casablanca, if you paid attention, whenever there's a big scene or certain kind of scene (mainly love) in brazil, it goes back to the theme song, like in casablanca. plus, the title, which seems pretty irrelevant, is kind of an exotic place, like casablanca. can anyone more versed on the film than me expand/explain some of this further?

i thought the ending was cool, and definitely a surprise. i'm still trying to digest it and am reading everyone's comments for more understanding on the film, and trying to make sense of some of the more hard-to-find themes.


maybe i'll be back later with more. but good pick for the movie club. its a classic that i had never seen, so felt compelled to finally check it out because of its selection here.

peace
mike

http://theonlyblogthatmatters.wordpress.com
http://www.last.fm/user/mdrohan/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Wordup
Member since Mar 03rd 2006
36504 posts
Wed Jul-04-07 10:37 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "I'm still undecided on whether to watch this . . ."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Seems like something I would like.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Ryan M
Member since Oct 21st 2002
42244 posts
Thu Jul-05-07 12:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "Watch it."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Then read up on it.

Then watch it again.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Lobby Pass The Popcorn topic #240898 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com