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Subject: "The Lesson Rates: Gang Starr" Previous topic | Next topic
Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12979 posts
Fri Oct-28-22 10:52 AM

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"The Lesson Rates: Gang Starr"


  

          

The 4th Lesson Rates is Gang Starr!

The Lesson Rates: Gang Starr, Google Form: https://forms.gle/fxhMzLKbUFKbfy3RA

* You will need a Google login (to ensure no duplicate entries) but I am NOT collecting email addresses. Also, I left it so responses can be edited after submission.

This rate includes Gang Starr’s 7 albums as well as voting for your favorite songs and most overrated/underrated album.

Additionally, select your favorite non-Gang Starr Guru album and your favorite DJ Premier beats. *

A few changes:
1. Rather than selecting your favorite song from each album, select up to your top 3.
2. All questions are now optional which means, for example, if you don’t think there is a most overrated or underrated album, skip it. Same goes for if you aren’t familiar with an album enough to rate it.

This can be as quick or time-consuming as you want. You can open the form now and submit your ratings or spend a little more time re-listening to some of the albums to refresh your memory/rating. As mentioned above, answers are not final until I close the form, so feel free to go back and update your submissions.

* I tried to scrape all the “best DJ Premier beats” I could find to ensure all of the realistic choices were present but I left an “other” column just in case. If you think there are glaring omissions, please reply here and I will add them.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Let’s Go!
Oct 28th 2022
1
Thanks for putting this together
Oct 28th 2022
2
Might just have to leave that for discussion here lol
Oct 30th 2022
5
RE: The Lesson Rates: Gang Starr
Oct 30th 2022
3
added
Oct 30th 2022
4
I'm here.
Oct 31st 2022
6
Oh we ALL the way in here
Nov 01st 2022
7
Alright, I'm in.
Nov 03rd 2022
8
Is Full Clip the best compilation/greatest hits album?
Nov 07th 2022
9
I posted about this here YEARS ago
Nov 07th 2022
10
Yea it definitely is to me
Nov 08th 2022
11
Easily for hip hop
Nov 08th 2022
12
At the very least, it's in the running
Nov 10th 2022
13
Final week of voting, results to be posted Friday.
Nov 28th 2022
14
RESULTS:
Dec 02nd 2022
15
Flip 1 and 2 and this is exactly my album ranking
Dec 02nd 2022
16
I don’t agree with that thinking
Dec 03rd 2022
21
      Not quite what I meant. That's the only way I can choose
Dec 05th 2022
24
           No doubt
Dec 05th 2022
26
An exercise of their most/least popular songs
Dec 02nd 2022
17
Make ‘Em Pay, Much Too Much and
Dec 02nd 2022
19
You cutting too much from Daily Operation and Moment of Truth
Dec 03rd 2022
20
I need names of the people cutting Make Em Pay
Dec 03rd 2022
22
I love “Now You’re Mine”, surprised nobody picked it
Dec 03rd 2022
23
      I think they just have so many great songs
Dec 05th 2022
25
           I see your point. Just because it wasn't picked doesn't mean its expenda...
Dec 05th 2022
27
Nas is going to be tough
Dec 02nd 2022
18
i'm not seeing the spreadsheet breakdown?
Dec 05th 2022
28
      Here's a link to the google sheet
Dec 05th 2022
29

Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16473 posts
Fri Oct-28-22 03:39 PM

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1. "Let’s Go!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, Mobb Deep, UGK and Eightball & MJG

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
8358 posts
Fri Oct-28-22 05:40 PM

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2. "Thanks for putting this together"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It might be too late, but I'm wondering if you could add "Best DJ Premier scratched hook?" No worries if it's too late. Just figured it would be fun to include.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12979 posts
Sun Oct-30-22 08:45 AM

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5. "Might just have to leave that for discussion here lol"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>It might be too late, but I'm wondering if you could add
>"Best DJ Premier scratched hook?" No worries if it's too late.
>Just figured it would be fun to include.

  

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IslaSoul
Member since Aug 01st 2003
5929 posts
Sun Oct-30-22 03:34 AM

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3. "RE: The Lesson Rates: Gang Starr"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



>* I tried to scrape all the “best DJ Premier beats” I
>could find to ensure all of the realistic choices were present
>but I left an “other” column just in case. If you think
>there are glaring omissions, please reply here and I will add
>them.
>

Thank you for all this work, I'd like to suggest adding "Extra, Extra" by Paula Perry

http://islasoul.bandcamp.com

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12979 posts
Sun Oct-30-22 08:45 AM

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4. "added"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          


>Thank you for all this work, I'd like to suggest adding
>"Extra, Extra" by Paula Perry

  

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LeroyBumpkin
Charter member
36911 posts
Mon Oct-31-22 06:17 AM

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6. "I'm here. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
10834 posts
Tue Nov-01-22 12:44 PM

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7. "Oh we ALL the way in here"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Nov-01-22 12:46 PM by spenzalii

  

          

Not sure if you wanna put any of the PRhyme songs on the list, as that's some of Preemo's best work in a decade

If not, you gotta add Up Against The Wall (getaway car mix).

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
15662 posts
Thu Nov-03-22 10:47 AM

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8. "Alright, I'm in. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I've revisited No More Mr Nice Guy and Moment of Truth recently but not the rest. Definitely going to give them all a listen before filling this out.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
15662 posts
Mon Nov-07-22 06:27 PM

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9. "Is Full Clip the best compilation/greatest hits album?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I always liked it and The Anthology for Tribe. For both that's how I started so that could be bias. If I had already listened to their albums before the greatest hits I don't know if I would still feel so strongly for them.

I think a lot of times greatest hits albums miss for some reason or other but these two are basically all greatness. It's nice that they include some songs that weren't on their albums as well.

The Roots Home Grown deserves credit too but I kind of feel like that went in a different direction. To me that seemed very much geared for people that were already very familiar so I don't know how much someone brand new to The Roots would like it.

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12979 posts
Mon Nov-07-22 08:12 PM

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10. "I posted about this here YEARS ago"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Greatest hits albums, especially in hip hop, tend to be awful since it's mostly just the hit singles which for a lot of artists aren't their best songs.

Double albums, especially in hip hop, also tend to be awful.

And yet, the best greatest hits albums in hip hop in my opinion are 2Pac and Gang Starr, both double albums.

  

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IslaSoul
Member since Aug 01st 2003
5929 posts
Tue Nov-08-22 06:25 AM

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11. "Yea it definitely is to me"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          


Selection of songs and sequencing make it the best compilation (any genre) to me. It's followed by The Roots Homegrown, ATCQ Anthology and the Massive Attack best of.

http://islasoul.bandcamp.com

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16473 posts
Tue Nov-08-22 12:54 PM

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12. "Easily for hip hop"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

That comp is the epitome of what a career spanning compilation should be imo.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, Mobb Deep, UGK and Eightball & MJG

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
10834 posts
Thu Nov-10-22 01:03 PM

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13. "At the very least, it's in the running"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

The hits, most of the B sides (I had searched for Credit Is Due for the longest back in the day), remixes, and 2 new fire songs? It's a damn accurate representation of an outstanding body of work

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12979 posts
Mon Nov-28-22 12:16 PM

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14. "Final week of voting, results to be posted Friday."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12979 posts
Fri Dec-02-22 10:48 AM

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15. "RESULTS:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In total we had 20 people rate Gang Starr’s discography.
Overall we collectively gave an average rating of 8.24.

Full Results: https://tinyurl.com/okpgangstarr


Discography Rank:

1. Moment of Truth - 9.45
2. Hard to Earn - 9.37
3. Daily Operation - 8.68
4. Step in the Arena - 8.42
5. The Ownerz - 7.72
6. One of the Best Yet - 7.33
7. No More Mr. Nice Guy - 6.61


Top 10 DJ Premier Beats:
1. Come Clean (Jeru the Damaja)
2. N.Y. State of Mind (Nas)
3. Mass Appeal (Gang Starr)
4. Nas is Like (Nas)
5. Livin’ Proof (Group Home)
6. Supa Star (Group Home)
7. Boom (Royce da 5’9”)
8. Unbelievable (The Notorious B.I.G.)
9. MC’s Act Like They Don’t Know (KRS-One)
10. Common - The Sixth Sense


The next Lesson Rates will be… Nas!


Note: Really miffed this one. When I thought I was filling out my response I was actually editing the form and for a while the “OKP Username” input just said “Oak27” which left some people’s responses essentially anonymous! I also forgot to add Overrated/Underrated until a few responses came in so there weren’t a lot of votes there. Woof!

Anyways, refer to the Full Results sheet for a breakdown of all of the results!

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
10834 posts
Fri Dec-02-22 12:31 PM

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16. "Flip 1 and 2 and this is exactly my album ranking"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Though I'm not mad at this at all. The only thing tipping the scales between the top 2 albums is one has Mass Appeal on it and the other doesn't. That's all. I wouldn't want to live in a world where Mass Appeal doesn't exist, so that gets the nod, and only because of that one song.

Pretty sure I was the only person to choose Next Time off that album too

>Discography Rank:
>
>1. Moment of Truth - 9.45
>2. Hard to Earn - 9.37
>3. Daily Operation - 8.68
>4. Step in the Arena - 8.42
>5. The Ownerz - 7.72
>6. One of the Best Yet - 7.33
>7. No More Mr. Nice Guy - 6.61
>

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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Anonymous
Charter member
22981 posts
Sat Dec-03-22 11:35 AM

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21. "I don’t agree with that thinking"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

I don’t want to “live in a world without Mass Appeal” either but that doesn’t mean Hard To Earn is better.

Moment Of Truth from top to bottom is just the better album. I could say the same thing about You Know My Steez, Work, Royalty, Above The Clouds, Moment Of Truth, The Militia, Make Em Pay.

I’m not saying those songs are better than Mass Appeal, although I do feel some are, but I just think Moment of Truth just has more songs on that level than Hard To Earn does.

Like Guru said on the intro, beats and rhymes are just elevated and saying it’s better doesn’t negate Mass Appeal’s status at all.

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
10834 posts
Mon Dec-05-22 01:22 AM

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24. "Not quite what I meant. That's the only way I can choose"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

For me both albums are tied. I ran both of them into the ground, and both albums have real life tragedies and memories tied to 'em. On any given day I'd take both. But if this were a gun to your head choose one or die thing, choosing the album that has Mass Appeal is the only way I could justify it to myself. I'm not trying to sway anybody's opinion on these two, because whichever you pick is correct.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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Anonymous
Charter member
22981 posts
Mon Dec-05-22 09:56 AM

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26. "No doubt"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Both are absolute classics

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
15662 posts
Fri Dec-02-22 12:46 PM

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17. "An exercise of their most/least popular songs"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

It seems like there are clear favorite songs on each album. There are also some songs that no one voted as their favorite. So I want to do a couple of things. List the top songs of each album and list the songs that we could cut from each album since no one voted as a favorite.

() is number of votes the song got

No More Mr. Nice Guy
Top songs:
Words I Manifest (Remix) (11)
DJ Premier in Deep Concentration (9)
Jazz Music (7)

Songs to cut:
Gusto
Conscience Be Free
Cause and Effect
2 Steps Ahead
Positivity

Step in the Arena
Top songs:
Who's Gonna Take the Weight (13)
Just to Get a Rap (12)
Step in the Arena (8)
Check the Technique (8)

Songs to cut:
What You Want This Time?
Say Your Prayers

Daily Operation
Top songs:
Take it Personal (15)
Soliloquy of Chaos (11)
Ex Girl to Next Girl (7)
B.Y.S. (7)

Songs to cut:
Conspiracy
Hardcore Composer
Much Too Much (Mack a Mill)
Stay Tuned

Hard to Earn
Top songs:
Mass Appeal (15)
DWYCK (8)
Code of the Streets (7)
Speak Ya Clout (7)

Songs to cut:
Aiiight Chill...
Now You're Mine (?!)

Moment of Truth
Top songs:
Above the Clouds (12)
You Know My Steez (8)
Work (7)
Moment of Truth (7)

Songs to cut:
Itz a Set Up
B.I. vs Friendship
She Knowz What She Wantz
Make 'Em Pay
The Mall

The Ownerz
Top songs:
Rite Where U Stand (9)
Skills (8)
Zonin' (8)

Songs to cut:
Sabotage
Eulogy

One of the Best Yet
Top songs:
Family and Loyalty (9)
Bad Name (8)
What's Real (8)

Songs to cut:
Get Together
Bring it Back Here

Now I doubt these are the songs we would say are their overall best but just thought it was interesting.

  

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natenate101
Member since Apr 21st 2015
655 posts
Fri Dec-02-22 05:47 PM

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19. "Make ‘Em Pay, Much Too Much and "
In response to Reply # 17


          

Now your mine are really good album tracks. Maybe don’t stand out enough to garner votes but I can listen to those songs all damn day.

“straight out the late nights of Bed-Stuy/Stepping up, y’all put your weapons up, I make heads fly”! Gets me hyped every time. Love that song and beat.

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
10834 posts
Sat Dec-03-22 11:30 AM

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20. "You cutting too much from Daily Operation and Moment of Truth"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

Conspiracy, maybe I can go with that. Everything else works. There weren't too many people rapping over 3/4 beat, so Stay Tuned stays just for that alone. M2M is a bop, and Hardcore Composer is dope as Premier's scratches through the song act as Guru's hype man.

Itz a Setup? Don't hate it, but if one has to go, fine. There will be NO dismissing a Gang Starr/MOP collaboration, ever. Krumb was going off on Make EM Pay. And as much hate as The Mall gets, it's not bat at all

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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Anonymous
Charter member
22981 posts
Sat Dec-03-22 01:16 PM

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22. "I need names of the people cutting Make Em Pay"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

That’s outlandish

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
17438 posts
Sat Dec-03-22 02:23 PM

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23. "I love “Now You’re Mine”, surprised nobody picked it "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

Maybe nobody wanted to pick a song where Guru was dissing Preem? Lol.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
15662 posts
Mon Dec-05-22 09:32 AM

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25. "I think they just have so many great songs"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

If more people had participated I'm sure it would have been picked, along with many others.

If I only put the top 3 from each album on a playlist and called it their best of I'm sure many people that participated would disagree with it.

Just thought it was interesting.

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
10834 posts
Mon Dec-05-22 12:10 PM

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27. "I see your point. Just because it wasn't picked doesn't mean its expenda..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

There's just so many good to great songs limiting it to 3 means SOMETHING is getting left off. I didn't have What I'm Here For but that's one of my favorites on the album. I never skip Much 2 Much, but it didn't make the 3.

Something always gotta get left on the cutting room floor. Doesn't make it bad or expendable.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
__________________________

Jay: Look here homie, any nigga can get a hit record. This here is about respect.
Game: Like Gladys Knight.
Jay: Aretha Franklin.
Game: Word, I like her too.
Jay: Nigga...

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
15662 posts
Fri Dec-02-22 12:55 PM

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18. "Nas is going to be tough"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

So many albums. I definitely need to revisit many of them. Hopefully I can do so in time.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17699 posts
Mon Dec-05-22 03:40 PM

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28. "i'm not seeing the spreadsheet breakdown?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

am i high?

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
12979 posts
Mon Dec-05-22 03:46 PM

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29. "Here's a link to the google sheet"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

https://tinyurl.com/okpgangstarrsheet

  

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