I legit strongly disliked Jay-Z when I first heard him. I can remember hearing "Ain't No N*gga" for the first time and was like who is this corn ball?

I think I finally came around to enjoying him when I moved to NYC and the Blueprint dropped around that time. Then he gots points with me for becoming Roots Affiliated by the time he drops an unplugged album.

And then its been cool to watch him grow into this dread head family man taking pictures of his kid at the Superbowl and doing his last album with Jay Electronica.

2 Chainz is one of my favorite fun rappers. But when I listened to his latest "Dope Don't Sell Itself", I was like bro, you 44 and married, how you rapping about this same stuff?

I mean I wasn't surprised to see Kanye "evolve" to become a more spiritual rapper, that was always in his cards, but he also went crazy.

What funny is that a lot of the conscious rappers didn't change that much in the last 20 years. Common's my favorite, but he was so "evolved" at a younger age, he really hasn't found an interesting place to evolve to (does that make sense? Its not a common diss because the truth is in my mind Jay-Z evolved to where Common was 20 years ago).

Also, a feel like a few conscious rappers like Mos Def or Lupe, "evolved" to some next-level mysticism space where its hard to even relate to them.

Yeah the next most "evolved" rapper I can think of other than Jay-z is Nas. He also figured out like Jay-Z to embrace the Elder Stateman of Hip-Hop role.

Anyway, I think we have done "grown man rap" discussions where someone like Phonte is always mentioned before but I am thinking more of a rapper that started at one place and traveled the farthest as far as maturation.

Anyone else?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I saw your subject line and immediately thought of Common and Phonte, but had the exact same follow-up thoughts about them. That they were both so evolved and "mature" early on that their evolutions were quite different than what you reference w/Jay Z. And as you said, it's not a diss to either of them .. it's a compliment. But, at least in Common's case, it's made it hard for him to make interesting music as often as he used to because he's already said all that there is to say in so many different ways that his albums just don't hit like they used to. He's most interesting when he's just spitting (a la Pyramids ... but now that I mention it, Black America Again was a really great album so he still has it in him from time to time I suppose).

So yea I'm hard pressed to think of anyone who's evolved and changed in rap as much as Jay or Nas. That's partially because most rappers mostly disappear before 40, maybe ? I dunno.


>I legit strongly disliked Jay-Z when I first heard him. I can
>remember hearing "Ain't No N*gga" for the first time and was
>like who is this corn ball?
>
>I think I finally came around to enjoying him when I moved to
>NYC and the Blueprint dropped around that time. Then he gots
>points with me for becoming Roots Affiliated by the time he
>drops an unplugged album.
>
>And then its been cool to watch him grow into this dread head
>family man taking pictures of his kid at the Superbowl and
>doing his last album with Jay Electronica.
>
>2 Chainz is one of my favorite fun rappers. But when I
>listened to his latest "Dope Don't Sell Itself", I was like
>bro, you 44 and married, how you rapping about this same
>stuff?
>
>I mean I wasn't surprised to see Kanye "evolve" to become a
>more spiritual rapper, that was always in his cards, but he
>also went crazy.
>
>What funny is that a lot of the conscious rappers didn't
>change that much in the last 20 years. Common's my favorite,
>but he was so "evolved" at a younger age, he really hasn't
>found an interesting place to evolve to (does that make sense?
>Its not a common diss because the truth is in my mind Jay-Z
>evolved to where Common was 20 years ago).
>
>Also, a feel like a few conscious rappers like Mos Def or
>Lupe, "evolved" to some next-level mysticism space where its
>hard to even relate to them.
>
>Yeah the next most "evolved" rapper I can think of other than
>Jay-z is Nas. He also figured out like Jay-Z to embrace the
>Elder Stateman of Hip-Hop role.
>
>Anyway, I think we have done "grown man rap" discussions where
>someone like Phonte is always mentioned before but I am
>thinking more of a rapper that started at one place and
>traveled the farthest as far as maturation.
>
>Anyone else?
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Like my man is always making, I love my Black Queens songs, but dude can't seem to hold a girl down.

He got a whole lot of heat for breaking up with Tiffany Haddish and telling her one thing and telling the press another.

Instead of offering Platitudes, how cool would it be if he got really blunt in his music about what happened with him and Serena or him and Tiffany? I doubt it would happen because it would probably piss of some beloved women and mess wis his acting/hosting money, but it would make for good music.

Nas went deep into his relationship with Life is Good and made a beautiful album/song because of it. I am sure it pissed Kelis off, but it seemed honest.

As much as Talib speaks positivity, his non-rapping life seems chaotic. He should put some of that Choas in his music.





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Comm just recently disclosed on Let Love that he was sexually abused as a kid. He was also one of the first MCs to confront his homophobia publicly on "Between Me, You, & Liberation". He was also very very open about his relationship w/Erykah around that time.

I realize you were talking specifically about his recent relationships but I don't even know if I care to know what happened in those relationships. Nas opening up about his breakup w/Kelis on Life is Good was compelling primarily because that breakup was highly contentious. Comm always seems to want to keep things cordial, even if there are issues behind the scenes.

And now that I'm thinking about it, Comm *was* pretty upfront about most things Serena. He went @ Drake pretty aggressively (and cornily) and had that song "Lovin' I Lost" which was all about the breakup.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

and also Mac Miller.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

in Tyler's case he didn't just refine his subject matter, he got way better too. His career has been a joy to observe.

I remember reading one of his early interviews and I thought there was something wrong with this kid mentally.

But he has blossomed nicely.

This kid of reminds me of Childish Gambino who started out with very sophomoric rap lyrics with heavy Kanye influences to being a real music act.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I personally was impressed with the production he was doing for himself and the Odd Future crew from the beginning.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

like Hov, they were (mostly) a big deal from the beginning and just became a bigger and bigger deal as they continued to evolve

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

Watching Snoop grow up and become what he is today is incredible. I'm a huge fan of his and he still has one of the most distinct voices and flows in hip hop.

He went from Doggystyle to No Limit to helping bring Dre back on 2001 to his Pharrell album run to buying Death Row.

And he's done it all without really compromising himself or selling out. He did what he had to do more times than not but he was always Snoop. Seeing a true OG Snoop and the wisdom he's always bringing is so dope.

from last week and it was a good nostalgia album but it sounded to me a lot like Snoop from 20 years ago.

I will admit I didn't listen to the songs closely (and I do have a East Coast Bias).

Sure outside of music Snoop has grown a lot and I am a fan but has he changed very much musically?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

The first appearances on Deep Cover/The Chronic created an incredible buzz

This first Album broke sales records and is generally regarded as a classic

Got into legal trouble, went to jail and then got out and continued putting out even MORE hits and also getting hella acting roles and commercials.

And continued putting out DOPE projects the whole time; Rap, Gospel, Reggae, Country, R&B...


And yet somehow it seems like he never really CHANGED that much

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

he has so many good songs.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

When he trims the fat (BUSH and Blue Carpet Treatment being great examples) he usually succeeds.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I just don't think he fits into the category of evolved in his music.
Part of his success is knowing his lane and staying in it.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Outside of his last album, Jay Z is one of the most repetitive rappers out there

If you are talking about MCs progressing to be more creative, new concepts etc
a couple come to mind…. MF Doom, Q Tip, Andre 3000, Aceyalone, Myka 9, Del The Funkee Homosapien, Aesop Rock, Kool Keith, Mos Def etc

with Aceyalone, Myka 9, Del, or Aesop Rock's audiences

i audibly chuckled when i got past Andre in your list lol

---

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Unless I misunderstood the topic of this post, we are talking about artists that did not stay in their lane (musically) and evolved

someone like Jay Z is the last person I would call as an evolved artist…

MCs like Aceyalone , MF Doom have worked with different concepts, flows, content, genres etc…

same way...im not as familiar with Lupe's journey. But man...IMO mos was poised to be one of the greats...dude has the delivery/raw talent and charisma of a chosen few. he can act (well) and play instruments. but dude seemed to be searching/drawn to something beyond the music...bro said fuck it and became a nomad (jay elec did the same) living in remote small villages in different corners of the globe...now he exhibits next level mysticism and its hard to relate lol. spot on


>Also, a feel like a few conscious rappers like Mos Def or
>Lupe, "evolved" to some next-level mysticism space where its
>hard to even relate to them.
>
>

He was just the greatest marriage of consciousness, voice, street cred, musicality. Him and Kanye together on Two Words and talk of him working with Manny Fresh, I thought he was about to do even bigger things.


I will say, it does make sense that the more enlightened you become the more it would sense to just opt out of it (a la Lauren Hill).


What does seem crazy is Kanye reached the height of success and he seems still unhappy and unsatisfied and he still hasn't figured out more fame and more "things" won't make him happy.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

....and unlike, Snoop, Common & Jay-Z who have all dropped multiple absolute crap albums, Ace has been consistently dropping dope LPs since 90

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improved artist post.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Take a look around > slaughtahouse > sittin on chrome > disposable arts

^^ The evolution of the artist between these 4 LPs is clear (no pun).

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that line in 1988 to releasing the CHRONIC in 1992...

i guess an opposite example 'evolving' but I've always wondered about that line in Express Yourself and how it quickly that opinion of smoking changed for him

>but I've always wondered about that line in Express Yourself

I swore an oath with my best friends at 15 that I'd never drink or do a single drug. I was smoking weed every day by the time I was 18 and have been a regular social drinker since that same age, and have tried countless other drugs.

Dre was obviously a few years older when he made his declaration that he didn't smoke but .. then he did. Humans do human things.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

_________________

Not slow and low, it's the fast type.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianpenick/2020/07/07/music-tech-investor-perspectives-during-the-pandemic-and-recession-arabian-prince-of-nwa/?sh=429ee9676473

Always a great writer and top level MC. But the content matured as the man matured. That’s what we’re largely talking about here, right? MC’s who don’t get typecast into doing the same thing on every album, but rather are allowed to grow as their audience grows with them?