I was thinking about how my Top 5 list has changed over the years.

Like back in 96, I would have had KRS, Rakim, Cube, Chuck, and maybe LL.

In '10, I might have had Biggie, Rakim, Jay, Nas & KRS.

Now, that list is Andre 3K, Nas, Jay, Black Thought, and maybe Kendrick.

The changes aren't necessarily because of revisionist interpretations, but more recontextualizing their music with the much lengthier history of hip-hop since the Golden Age.

Like I think many of the early Golden Age artists, like KRS (especially) and Cube's careers lost luster. Because they released more albums, the level of consistency from album to album dropped considerably.

And even those who came in at the tail end of the Golden Age, like Biggie, suffer because he only had two albums. For as outstanding as Ready to Die and half of Life After Death was, it's hard to justify comparing him to someone like Jay who had a larger body of work. Even if the peaks weren't as high as Biggie's.

I'm personally leaning towards creating lists based on eras. Like Golden Age, True School, modern era, etc. I think that way the list can remain true to both the old school artists who simply didn't have the knowledge to imagine forging a multi-decade career. And also to those who came after and aren't as original, but still carved out a unique style.

How do you view things?

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

... mine has changed over the years but it's more because I stopped giving the requisite respect to like Biggie and to a lesser extent, Tupac because I felt sorta obligated (as well as Rakim when I was way younger) and started just giving MY top 5 in terms of both talent and personal preference.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I'd like to read your take.

It's been said about art that while there is subjectivity, there is a 'right' and 'wrong' way to make it.

But I think what's right or wrong within MC-ing is so wide now that coming to a consensus, outside of ranking eras, is really difficult.

So, it does almost make more sense to just accept that objectivity is hard to gauge and just make an informed decision based on our own listening habits and tastes.

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

If they don't, either the music hasn't advanced or you're stuck in your time.

The reason they change will vary from person to person. Some people only really weigh the positive for each artist. Meaning you're focusing on their best output and dismissing any late work they released that wasn't great.

Although Nas has usually been near most peoples top 5 if not in it I think he does keep making his case stronger and stronger with time.

I don't really spend too much time thinking of a top 5 because it is so subjective and any means you go about making it objective have too many flaws. I think like you said, you could do a top 5 per era. You could also make a top 5 based on just impact or skills or any other metric.

Rakim is one that I feel will always stay in my top 5 but I think that's more about being stubborn than the lack of advancement in skills. My justification is that Rakim not only had the skills but he elevated the game to such a degree that hasn't been matched since. So his impact plus his skill level was so much that he is hard to replace. I feel like most rappers that have had as big of an impact on how other rappers rap didn't elevate the skill they just made a style popular.

If you ask me what my top 5 is I would need to know under what parameters. If it is an overall "objective" list then it would probably include rappers I don't like or respect simply because it is hard to deny the amount of success they have had.

The skill level has largely regressed. Very few are advancing the art of the MC. Drugged out sounding rappers have replaced true talent and skills AND MC's like them Griselda cats are doing what Wu, Mobb, Bootcamp, Nas,etc did better. Yes they are talented, but it's the same old tough guy/drug talk others before them did even more creatively/better. We are in a state of stagnance, where the few that come creative are largely ignored cause the art of it is just not as appreciated...my top 5 all time taking into consideration longevity/quality of work, mic presence, skill, wordplay, technique, beat choice, messages, concepts approached, and oh yeah, fuck mass appeal/record sales. No real order

1. Black Thought-greatest to ever touch a mic...
2. Rakim-simply the GOD...took the art to a new level
3. Pharoahe Monch-incredible MC...
4. MF DOOM-the definition of creative, true school MC
5. Aesop Rock-a new(er) edition to my top 5, just the depth of his catalog of work, and consistent quality...incredible artist...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

There are some others on the same level but none that you could seriously say are significantly better.

To me I would prefer to include Gift of Gab and One Be Lo over DOOM and Aesop but that's just preference.

I do think this list is very much focused on skill and ignores impact/influence too much. Doesn't make it invalid but I could see why others might not put any of them in their top 5.

...I just never bought into the impact/influence argument, as it's a fine line to popularity being weighed over true MC skill...again though, just my take...un questionably all 5 artists I listed above have been influenced by others, but they took it and came unique...the ability to do that use to be valued...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

I think one factor that is missing besides skills/impact is how much you relate to the music. Some of the songs that hit you that hardest are not very complex and don't require amazing lyrical skills. I think this is important and can't be dismissed. It is definitely subjective but if the music doesn't connect with you then it doesn't really matter how much skill was required to make it.

I can dig that...I would say for a lot of people that's a given.

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

>MC's like them Griselda cats are
>doing what Wu, Mobb, Bootcamp, Nas,etc did better.
> Yes they are talented, but it's the same old tough guy/drug talk others before them did >even more creatively/better.

I feel the same way about freddie gibbs… the only thing that made him interesting to me was working with Madlib

None of the match up to hip hop artists from before

Truth...Gibbs is SUPER average, at best...only cat I'm feeling consistently doing that tough guy, hard shit is Roc Marci...His production is dope, and he comes creative with it. Ka got a little something too, a collaboration LP with the two would be a can't miss.

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

Because the only person who was putting out solid hits for over a decade was LL (and maybe KRS 1).

Now that rap is 50+, Longevity and Consistency have to be part of the criteria.


I will say though that consistency can be a bit overrated. If only your every 3rd album is fire is a problem if you only make 3 albums. If you make 15 albums though and have 5 fire albums, well, having 5 fire albums is a huge career achievement.

*looks both ways*, I've actually felt that way towards the roots. They usually have 2-3 songs per album that I love love. That may not sound like a lot, but in a 20+ year career, that's a whole lot of songs.




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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

The opportunity to have longevity is much different now. You can put your own music out and have at least some level of success, with no label pressure on what to make/put out. In the label/TV era, things were a lot different.

..a rapper like Black Poet for example who's been on wax since 86 and still putting music out today is still very average and can't fuck with Big L's very short career ..longevity is kind of meaningless ..Paul McCartney still putting out music, he hasn't been good since Wings lol

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RAKIM
BDK
KRS
KOOL G RAP

These 4 will never leave the top 4... after that it's all debatable..

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