"Where does Treach fall in the rap legends hierarchy "
I don't think anyone would call him one of the "greats" would they?
But he was far more technically proficient and has more hits than one (or two) hit wonders like Coolio, Tone Loc.
But then he had a lot of big pop hits so its hard to compare him to more underground legendary cats like Masta Ace, Mobb Deep.
I always thought Naughty by Nature were in this weird lane because Treach seemed sooo gully and gangsta but was putting out all these poppy hits. Like does Naughty have any HOOD anthems?
Not a Treach diss, trying to figure out where he fits in and I am having a hard time thinking of groups to compare them to. I'm thinking of groups with street rappers who had great producers who were able to make poppy songs like the Lox or Doggpound? IDK.
Quick test:
WHose the better rapper:
Treach or Guru?
Treach or Tupac?
Treach or Redman?
Treach or Prodigy?
Treach or Masta Ace?
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
1. "Hood Anthem = Uptown Anthem" In response to Reply # 0
And I think Treach is in the discussion with all those you mentioned. Is he better than all of them, I don't think so, but whether better or not, the gap between him and those mentioned is not very wide.
"Dressed up like an evil villain dressed up like a soccer dad"
2. "Yea I agree with this." In response to Reply # 1
>And I think Treach is in the discussion with all those you >mentioned. Is he better than all of them, I don't think so, >but whether better or not, the gap between him and those >mentioned is not very wide.
I don't think he's better than, say, Redman. But he's better on the mic than Tupac was, overall, IMO.
Either way, the gap isn't huge and Treach is dope as fuck. And he and Naughty by Nature are underrated overall.
I've mentioned this on here before but I saw them at a small, intimate show at UMass Amherst in spring 2004 outdoors near my dorm and they were *phenomenal*. Truly set the stage on fire. One of my top 5 or 6 favorite shows ever.
3. "RE: Where does Treach fall in the rap legends hierarchy " In response to Reply # 0
>I don't think anyone would call him one of the "greats" would >they? > >But he was far more technically proficient and has more hits >than one (or two) hit wonders like Coolio, Tone Loc. > >But then he had a lot of big pop hits so its hard to compare >him to more underground legendary cats like Masta Ace, Mobb >Deep. > >I always thought Naughty by Nature were in this weird lane >because Treach seemed sooo gully and gangsta but was putting >out all these poppy hits. Like does Naughty have any HOOD >anthems? > >Not a Treach diss, trying to figure out where he fits in and I >am having a hard time thinking of groups to compare them to. >I'm thinking of groups with street rappers who had great >producers who were able to make poppy songs like the Lox or >Doggpound? IDK. > >Quick test: > >WHose the better rapper: > >Treach or Guru?
I prefer Treach.
>Treach or Tupac?
Treach a more skilled MC. 2Pac the better artist.
>Treach or Redman?
I’d give Redman the edge, but Treach was better until about ‘96. >Treach or Prodigy?
That’s a tough one. Very different MCs. I’d say Treach was more skilled though.
>Treach or Masta Ace? Treach, IMO.
IMO he is one of the greats, and back then he was considered one of them. For some reason he’s kinda lost status over time, while others that he was better than have gained it.
4. ""he’s kinda lost status over time, "" In response to Reply # 3
I attribute that to the fact he had such huge songs. For some reason the biggest songs always lose ground over time. We heard OPP so much at the time I still don't want really want to hear it now.
I Love Prince but can't listen to Purple Rain and rather listen to Ballad of Dorothy Parker.
Someone mentioned Uptown Anthem and I think that's the only Naughty song that didn't get worn out on its first run and its also one of there more listenable songs today.
********** "Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
7. "they went POP and kinda fell into a weird category..." In response to Reply # 0
...which is unfortunate because they are hard as fuck ..and smart to constantly drop a smash fucking hit with each album ..Treach the MC is up there in the top 50 easily, he was super dope
>and he gave credit and props to Treach. > >Never been a fan of his music, but he’s been good about >showing respect to those who inspired him.
He always always always gave props to those who influenced him and his style.
Masta Ace being chief among them. It was only in the past few years that I noticed just how much Em's early-career flow mimicked Ace's flow almost to a T. It's impeccable.
And to Em's credit he always mentioned Ace in his interviews, I think to this day, and how much he was inspired by him and learned from him.
Say what you want about Em (and god knows I have) but he has always been almost giddy to give credit to his influences and predecessors.
11. "You can tell Em is a real student of the culture" In response to Reply # 10
He could have easily gotten full of himself and staked claim to his style without giving credit. But he's really gracious to his influences.
I don't get the sense he's overcompensating for being a white MC in a Black genre as much as it is him taking the time to honor artists who meant a lot to him on a personal and artistic level.
12. "The only comp I can see is maybe LL" In response to Reply # 0
LL's more impactful on the culture but they're both acts who were very skilled (Treach maybe more so on a pure lyrical level) and had crossover hits.
But their status eroded over the years for whatever reason. Maybe because the culture simply changed and the qualities that made them great aren't valued as much.
Like someone said above, Treach isn't better than all of the rappers you mentioned but he's also not very far behind.
Treach was very, very versatile. He could spit, he could make anthems, he could be sly. But hip hop isn't kind to versatility in most cases, e.g. Black Thought.
Maybe the reason we don't revere Treach as much is because we didn't get to know *him* through his music like we did the other rappers on that list. He doesn't have a topical fingerprint in the sense that Guru does as a gritty street poet or Redman as the smokah or Prodigy with his calmness covering simmering intensity right below the surface.
For as much as we like lyricists, we are drawn to personalities. It's why most people like Jay over Nas and Kendrick over Lupe. That's not to say the Treach didn't have charisma. How else can you make songs like he did that connected to so many without having something magnetic about you. But he wasn't able to be charismatic about himself, if that makes sense.
13. "For a few years he was up there" In response to Reply # 0
I think Naughty's crossover success hurts him when it comes to talking about the GOATS. They don't have that etched in stone classic album that comes up in debates. He's in my top 25. Def one of my fav emcees.
Quick test:
WHose the better rapper: Technically he's probably better than all of them but they all have made albums better than his best.
Treach or Guru?
Treach or Tupac?
Treach or Redman?
Treach or Prodigy?
Treach or Masta Ace?
****************************************** Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks
14. "Naughty was a weird group to me" In response to Reply # 0
they had a few songs I liked but overall I wasn't a big fan of their recorded music BUT on the other hand they're one of the best live acts I've ever seen. Treach ain't wack but he's probably not in my top 50 just off the strength of not being able to rock with their music
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