I haven’t listened to an entire The Roots since Game Theory. When I heard that album I had a sense that they had reached their peak. I wasn’t interested in hearing anything else from them at this point in their career. Seeing the albums that have been released since and reading the thought process behind them has made me curious to check out those releases along with other collaborations. In learning over the years how to become a fair listener of music. It is the duty of the listener to allow creative space for artists. Sometimes they are on point and sometimes the miss the mark, and that’s okay. We sometimes think that we (listeners) have a right to dictate what an artists should make, who they work with, etc. Our only job is to receive the music as it is produced then try and wrap our minds around what they’re trying to do. We still may reject it, and that’s okay. It will still reach somebody that is looking for that particular message.
The only songs that I heard prior to listening to this in its entirety were...
75 Bars (Black's Reconstruction) Criminal Rising Up
This album starts off pretty well and it kinda drops off a little in the middle portion of it. It does pick back up near the end. The musicianship put me in the mindset of Game Theory. Nothing is all that groundbreaking here, but it’s still playable. If I had to grade this it’s around a 3.5-4 star album out of 5. Even though this is clearly not their best effort, it is probably a top 10 record from ‘08. I am not sure who all listens to this release on a regular basis, but in terms of replay value I don’t know if a ton of replay value is in this particular record. It is worth purchasing in the couple of spins that I gave it.
7. "RE: i need to revisit it" In response to Reply # 6 Mon Dec-23-19 12:15 PM by hip bopper
It is looking that way for me as well. It appears that Tipping Point, Game Theory, and Rising Down are near the bottom of their catalog. Tipping Point is the best out of those 3 albums.
10. "tipping point wasnt great to me" In response to Reply # 7
not as an album. it had some great songs but i didnt like it much. game theory was great. i might need to revisit their whole catalog. i might just be going off how many songs i love from each album and not factoring in how many mediocre or bad tracks the albums had.
17. "Because I can..." In response to Reply # 15 Wed Dec-25-19 09:16 AM by hip bopper
To address your first idiotic comment. I really wouldn’t care if Quest would say that he made a mediocre song. As a matter of fact I would expect him to say that knowing the type of artist that he is. Artists that really take pride in their work will be hard on themselves. It’s like De La saying that Buhloone Mindstate is their worst record.
I have cats that put their early work at the top of their favorite records by them... stuck on the 90’s hip hop sound. I can almost bet that a majority of people on here would say that Do You Want More?, Illadelph Halflife, and Things Fall Part are at the top of their favorite work from them. While everything from Phrenology to ...And Then You Shoot Your Cousin being at the bottom as their least favorite from them.
19. "......didn’t you say you don’t listen to new hip hop?" In response to Reply # 17
How can you criticize someone for being stuck in the 90s and not want to hear anything new at the same time?
I listen to new hip hop and TFA, Illadelph, and DYWM are my top 3 Roots albums. I really like Game Theory, Tipping Point, and How I Got Over, too though.
21. "RE: ......didn’t you say you don’t listen to new hip hop?" In response to Reply # 19
>How can you criticize someone for being stuck in the 90s and >not want to hear anything new at the same time? > >I listen to new hip hop and TFA, Illadelph, and DYWM are my >top 3 Roots albums. I really like Game Theory, Tipping Point, >and How I Got Over, too though.
I haven’t because the culture as a whole has been on a downward spiral. I don’t like any of the newer artists... it’s been really depressing as whole this decade. I can reserve the right to make whatever claims regarding hip hop and the listener. It’s fine and dandy that you listen to new hip hop. As I previously stated I have people that like those same albums, and they are stuck in 90’s hip hop. To make it even broader, they are stuck on that original sound. Catching up on their studio releases it baffles me that people put How I Got Over, Undun, and ...And Then You Shoot Your Cousin at the bottom of the list.
It’s about being tired of hearing a bunch of crap. A vast majority of artists refuse to recreate and reinvent themselves. I reserve the right to stop listening if things are mundane and boring. In music you can be in and out from whatever genre you choose to do that with. Whatever my decision is to listen to whatever I want whenever I want is my choice.
32. "Damn you're a weird, angry little dude huh." In response to Reply # 17
>To address your first idiotic comment. I really wouldn’t >care if Quest would say that he made a mediocre song. As a >matter of fact I would expect him to say that knowing the type >of artist that he is. Artists that really take pride in their >work will be hard on themselves. It’s like De La saying >that Buhloone Mindstate is their worst record. > >I have cats that put their early work at the top of their >favorite records by them... stuck on the 90’s hip hop sound. > I can almost bet that a majority of people on here would say >that Do You Want More?, Illadelph Halflife, and Things Fall >Part are at the top of their favorite work from them. While >everything from Phrenology to ...And Then You Shoot Your >Cousin being at the bottom as their least favorite from them.
38. "You stay stuck on stupid..." In response to Reply # 36
It’s funny how you dimwits have come “running to the rescue” to a reply made to someone else. You all should get out of your feelings regarding my “stuck in the 90’s” phrase. It must be true since you guys seem all bent out of shape by it.
>Went from “never hearing anything past Game Theory” > >To > >“The never made a bad song” (huh? You haven’t even >HEARD all the songs it’s literally the point of this >thread”) > >To > >Accusing others of being stuck in the 90s for preferring >a record released in 2006 > >To > >Heaping praise on albums he *allegedly* hadn’t heard > > >All in the span of like 3-4 days. > > >Entire thread was pointless and dishonest. > >Could have been interesting had another poster done >this exercise. > >“Undun is perfect their best album” in...like a day. > >LOL > >Dude didn’t even have the patience to make this >at least a little realistic...
Okay how long does it take to listen to 4 albums with a couple of them being 30 something minutes genius? I need longer than 3 to 4 days to make an assessment on something I heard? How dumb do you sound? So since you know what I have listened to, what did I just finished playing? Your response is pointless.
33. "Honestly. Angry, stupid, and all over the place." In response to Reply # 27
>Went from “never hearing anything past Game Theory” > >To > >“The never made a bad song” (huh? You haven’t even >HEARD all the songs it’s literally the point of this >thread”)
LOL
> >To > >Accusing others of being stuck in the 90s for preferring >a record released in 2006 > >To > >Heaping praise on albums he *allegedly* hadn’t heard > > >All in the span of like 3-4 days. > > >Entire thread was pointless and dishonest. > >Could have been interesting had another poster done >this exercise. > >“Undun is perfect their best album” in...like a day. > >LOL > >Dude didn’t even have the patience to make this >at least a little realistic...
4. "How I Got Over " In response to Reply # 0 Sun Dec-22-19 02:51 PM by hip bopper
Prior to hearing this record the only songs that I heard were...
Dear God 2.0 Doin’ It Again
This record flows very nice. This is their best release since Phrenology. The musicianship is excellent on this release. It was good to see Blu on a couple of tracks to add another MC to their usual list of characters. Looking at the releases for 2010 this was more than likely a top 10 release overall and probably the best rap release for that calendar year. Definitely it’s a 4 to 4.5 star record.
I had heard nothing prior to hearing this record for the first time. In looking into the concept for the album it made me wrap my head around Prince Paul’s A Prince Among Thieves. The songs match the theme of the album both lyrically and musically. This album is the best one by The Roots in their catalog. The classical/jazz arrangements on the album definitely makes this record a masterpiece.
This is definitely a 5 star album. Out of the albums in 2011 this appears to be probably the best release of that calendar year. Maybe Shabazz Palaces’ Black Up may have been on par with it but not much else on the rap side of things.
11. "RE: Picking up where I left off." In response to Reply # 0
>I haven’t listened to an entire The Roots since Game >Theory. When I heard that album I had a sense that they had >reached their peak. I wasn’t interested in hearing anything >else from them at this point in their career.
I'm curious about this -- are you saying GT was peak Roots as in top-tier and nowhere else to go, or are you saying you didn't like it and felt they'd burned out? Elsewhere in the thread I'm getting the impression you weren't a fan, which is interesting bc it's generally held in super high regard among Lessonheads (I think), as in near the top of their post-TFA output. It will be interesting to see how you assess post-GT not just album by album but overall.
>It is the >duty of the listener to allow creative space for artists. >Sometimes they are on point and sometimes the miss the mark, >and that’s okay. We sometimes think that we (listeners) >have a right to dictate what an artists should make, who they >work with, etc. Our only job is to receive the music as it is >produced then try and wrap our minds around what they’re >trying to do. We still may reject it, and that’s okay. It >will still reach somebody that is looking for that particular >message.
This is very close to my personal listening philosophy as well, and my approach to art in general. It's often misjudged as suggesting that artists can do no wrong, or as suggesting that listeners can't have their own thoughts -- that you have to take whatever an artist gives you and trust that it's good (or buy their bullshit artistic rationales).
For me, it's more about approaching a record in good faith -- with as few assumptions or immediate expectations about what does or doesn't make something good -- and instead assuming that the artist has a genuine vision for their work, and trying to take on that vision and explore what it has to offer. Let the likes and dislikes come later in the process; at first, try and explore it and appreciate it for what it is. This is especially true for artists who have earned trust via exceptional work.
16. "RE: Picking up where I left off." In response to Reply # 11
>I'm curious about this -- are you saying GT was peak Roots as >in top-tier and nowhere else to go, or are you saying you >didn't like it and felt they'd burned out? Elsewhere in the >thread I'm getting the impression you weren't a fan, which is >interesting bc it's generally held in super high regard among >Lessonheads (I think), as in near the top of their post-TFA >output. It will be interesting to see how you assess post-GT >not just album by album but overall.
What is there to be curious about? I kinda thought that it was clear what I meant. Game Theory sounded like they had gotten burned out. I kinda read something to the fact that Rising Down was supposed to be their last record. From TFA to Rising Down it sounded as if they may have started to run out of fresh ideas. Those theee albums in that span they made great songs, but the albums didn’t mesh well as in times past. I assess things differently than other “Lessonheads” obviously. This also doesn’t mean that I’m not a fan of the group. I done the same thing with other artists from that era. Lastly there has been a lot of “Lessonheads” in times past that haven’t liked their music since Phrenology, some didn’t like that album all too well either.
. > >This is very close to my personal listening philosophy as >well, and my approach to art in general. It's often misjudged >as suggesting that artists can do no wrong, or as suggesting >that listeners can't have their own thoughts -- that you have >to take whatever an artist gives you and trust that it's good >(or buy their bullshit artistic rationales). > >For me, it's more about approaching a record in good faith -- >with as few assumptions or immediate expectations about what >does or doesn't make something good -- and instead assuming >that the artist has a genuine vision for their work, and >trying to take on that vision and explore what it has to >offer. Let the likes and dislikes come later in the process; >at first, try and explore it and appreciate it for what it is. >This is especially true for artists who have earned trust via >exceptional work. >
The listener has to grow just like the artist. Your approach should change how you understand music in general. If you want to take this board in general too often people act as if they actually have a right to tear down artists. Even in our dislikes we often times cross the line in terms of how we may view a project. Even if the artist has made something that you may not like. we have to realize that our thoughts and views are just that... our thoughts. They don’t define what the artist has created. Music being the universal language that it is, if it don’t agree with you then someone else will be able to understand it. G.U.R.U. was the perfect example of this. Everyone wanted to criticize him when he left Primo, but I understood perfectly why he broke away from him. Or why other artists go and try new things. Move on from who they worked witch in the past in search of something different. The listener has to have an open mind to these processes.
18. "...And Then You Shoot Your Cousin" In response to Reply # 0
I have been trying to gather my thoughts for the past couple of days. I have listened to this release more than the other studio releases that I hadn’t listened to. It has taken a little bit to try and gather my thoughts regarding this record.
Like Undun I hadn’t heard a song off this album prior to listening to it. They really could’ve stopped and made nothing else after that with it being pretty much a perfect record.
...And Then You Shoot Your Cousin is much darker than Undun. It’s not as perfect as Undun, but they come really close. I would give it 4.5 out of 5. I liked how they put this together from the message, the music chosen, and the vocalists that they used. In checking what others thought in regards to this record, I see that folks had a problem with how Black Thought was used (or lack thereof). I had no problem with his usage because it fits within the context of the record. He more than made up for it when he did spit. They have really made themselves into a group that you don’t know what to expect from them when making a project.
For those that have come in here and have made this your platform to vent on what your favorite albums were by The Roots and your opinion of their projects, then you apparently lack the understanding to what this was. I seriously don’t care what you like or dislike concerning their albums. This also was not a post to debate this matter. I am quite sure that posts have been made in times posts regarding how you felt regarding their releases... you should refer to those previous posts.
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