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Subject: "What's the first New Jack Swing Album?" Previous topic | Next topic
Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Nov-05-19 05:16 PM

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"What's the first New Jack Swing Album?"


  

          

I was just perusing the internets and when I was checking out what wikipedia had to say about New Jack Swing I was surprised they identified Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis as the originators of the New Jack Swing Sound and Control (1986) as the first NJS Album.

Now if we aren't going to call a Teddy Riley Production like Bobby Brown's Don't Be Cruel (1988) or Keith Sweat's Make It Last Forever (1987) the first NJS Album, and had to pick a 1986 album I would have pciked CLub Nouveau's Life, Love & Pain (1986).

I know it's an evolution and there is a straight line from Jam & Lewis to Teddy Riley but what yall think?

I tried to make this easy by asking the first NJS album and not song but if anyone wants to put out there what they think is the first NJS song go for it.





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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I thought it was Keith Sweat's Make It Last Forever
Nov 06th 2019
1
I think Bobby Brown's Don't Be Cruel Kicked in the Door Waving the 44.
Nov 06th 2019
3
Off rip, I would say Keith Sweat, "Make It Last Forever."
Nov 06th 2019
2
Got to remember the whole visual aesthetic too.
Nov 06th 2019
4
      Good call...
Nov 06th 2019
5
           RE: Good call...
Nov 10th 2019
7
Thought of Control as Minneapolis Sound
Nov 08th 2019
6
Make It last Forever or Don't Be Cruel, I suppose
Nov 13th 2019
8
Okay, so you know what's crazy...Teddy did "The Show"
Nov 13th 2019
9
I was talking to this producer the other day who worked with TR.
Nov 15th 2019
11
It's not Control. Jam and Lewis didn't have Hip-Hop in their bones,
Nov 14th 2019
10
I forgot to mention Heavy D's Living Large
Nov 15th 2019
12
Guy’s first album
Nov 15th 2019
13
New Jack's Greatest Hits, the one that has...
Nov 18th 2019
14

LeroyBumpkin
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Wed Nov-06-19 10:27 AM

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1. "I thought it was Keith Sweat's Make It Last Forever"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Are we counting albums that had NJS elements?
Cause you're right in that Janet's Control definitely had them,
and then would predate Sweat and Teddy.

I'm curious to know this too.
Was there ONE album that broke down the door?

@dseals | @digife
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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Nov-06-19 11:27 AM

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3. "I think Bobby Brown's Don't Be Cruel Kicked in the Door Waving the 44. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Black Folks were digging Keith Sweat, but Bobby Brown was everywhere.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Wed Nov-06-19 10:41 AM

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2. "Off rip, I would say Keith Sweat, "Make It Last Forever.""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


But IMO, Guy's 1st album is the perfect embodiment of NJS.

On a related note...I've never considered New Edition's "Heartbreak" to be a NJS album. I absolutely see the line from Jam & Lewis to Teddy Riley. But to me, this album didn't have the sound or the vibe. It felt like a classic soul/R&B album to me but I could be way off base.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Wed Nov-06-19 11:37 AM

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4. "Got to remember the whole visual aesthetic too. "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

R&B went from looking like this:

https://bit.ly/2qoRfqj

and this

https://www.soulandfunkmusic.com/frontcover/album/2115226395/Luther_vandross-give_me_the_reason.jpg

to this

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/64/New_Edition_N.E._Heartbreak_Cover.jpg?1573057921129

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/EPEAAOSwrpNdRfqQ/s-l500.jpg

to NJS with folks dressed like this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Guy_The_Future_cover.jpeg/220px-Guy_The_Future_cover.jpeg

until after NJS guy groups were looking like rappers dressed like this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/83/Forever_My_Lady.jpg







**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Marbles
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Wed Nov-06-19 12:31 PM

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5. "Good call..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          


The "champagne soul" look definitely met it's end at the hands of NJS.

This makes me think of how so many people hate that Mary J. Blige is called the "Queen of Hip-Hop Soul." I always thought it was blatantly obvious that she's the queen of hip-hop INSPIRED soul.

I've never been able to completely pin down hip-hop's influence on NJS. It's absolutely there but I don't think it was always heavy handed. "Heartbreak" didn't have one rap on any of the songs.

My mind is kinda bouncing all over the place. I'm at work so I don't have time to totally focus.

  

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jimaveli
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Sun Nov-10-19 10:37 AM

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7. "RE: Good call..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>
> The "champagne soul" look definitely met it's end at the
>hands of NJS.
>
> This makes me think of how so many people hate that Mary J.
>Blige is called the "Queen of Hip-Hop Soul." I always thought
>it was blatantly obvious that she's the queen of hip-hop
>INSPIRED soul.
>
> I've never been able to completely pin down hip-hop's
>influence on NJS. It's absolutely there but I don't think it
>was always heavy handed. "Heartbreak" didn't have one rap on
>any of the songs.

I thought Heartbreak itself was delivered almost entirely like it was a rap..especially Ralph's in-verse vocals.

Those album cover changes were crazy. Peebo and them got thrown completely off a bridge by the era change.

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
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Fri Nov-08-19 12:05 PM

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6. "Thought of Control as Minneapolis Sound"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't think there's that much space between something like Human League's "Human" and what was on that album. So maybe Control is a proto NJS album with a lot of the elements. Jimmy Jam and Terry were able to adapt it and evolve it with Heartbreak. I think "Rub You The Right Way" is their best New Jack Swing production.

Also, just wanted to shout out In Effect Mode. An important and great early New Jack album which Teddy Riley also had a small hand in.

  

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spenzalii
Member since Jan 02nd 2004
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Wed Nov-13-19 05:45 PM

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8. "Make It last Forever or Don't Be Cruel, I suppose"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Whiel Jam & Lewis hinted at the NJS sound and aesthetic on Control and Heartbreak, it wasn't quite the same. The swing was different, and I think NJS leaned a bit more meaningfully toward hip hop, not just teasing it if that makes any sense.

And agree with what was said above, Guy's first album is probably the quintessential NJS album. From the club hits to the ballads, it was all right there. Bobby and Keith still has some of the standard R&B leanings on their album, but Guy was all in.

<-- Dave Thomas knows what's up...
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Castro
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Wed Nov-13-19 08:50 PM

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9. "Okay, so you know what's crazy...Teddy did "The Show""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

as in DOUG...E...FRESH....in 1985....and produced 'Go See the Doctor' by Kool Moe Dee.....

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Nov-15-19 10:27 AM

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11. "I was talking to this producer the other day who worked with TR. "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

He was saying it was his idea to add the salt shaker sound to the joint. I never thought about the idea that there was a gogo influence on that song or on Teddy Riley in general.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Teknontheou
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Thu Nov-14-19 01:55 PM

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10. "It's not Control. Jam and Lewis didn't have Hip-Hop in their bones, "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

like Teddy did. They did, however, help usher in a certain set of synthesizer sounds, which Teddy ran with. But the core understanding of the Hip-Hop groove and feel was what distinguished NJS from the Minneapolis Sound, and Teddy brought that first with Keith Sweat.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Fri Nov-15-19 10:30 AM

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12. "I forgot to mention Heavy D's Living Large"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Dropped in 87 and had Teddy Riley AND Eddie F.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Roadblock
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Fri Nov-15-19 10:58 PM

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13. "Guy’s first album"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Teddy Riley is well known as the architect of New Jack Swing.

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johnbook
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Mon Nov-18-19 04:02 PM

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14. "New Jack's Greatest Hits, the one that has..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

#CueCrickets

  

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