Being that I'm in my early 30's now, I've realized that almost every sub-genre in each era has faced criticism for completely different reasons, mainly coming from those who were fans of previous eras, or even the inspiring genres/sub-genres.

If what I'm saying is a bit unclear....I'll start, just to show what I mean. You can mention what you've heard other folks complain about, or your own feelings about it...either way works.

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From what I hear from Soul and Jazz heads who weren't big fans of Disco...sounds like a lot of them felt "four on the floor" was just a boring, monotonous pattern, and they hated that a lot of artists stopped doing what they excelled at in order to make forced Disco hits.

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dreadful shit like this:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/louispeitzman/wonderfully-weird-disco-covers?utm_term=.ulExLEVZd#.frGD0LYvb

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There are disco songs that I like but the music isn't as technically interesting as jazz or funk of the time and didn't have the depth of emotion like soul music.

It didn't help disco's credibility that it seemed to be marketed to White audiences who may or may not have been interested in listening to Black music which was socially conscious and more challenging.

>There are disco songs that I like but the music isn't as
>technically interesting as jazz or funk of the time and didn't
>have the depth of emotion like soul music.

Have you ever heard "Bad Luck" by Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes?

>
>It didn't help disco's credibility that it seemed to be
>marketed to White audiences who may or may not have been
>interested in listening to Black music which was socially
>conscious and more challenging.


That's a stereotype. The shitty Disco we've come to despise was mostly white acts trying to imitate the sound. That corny shit is the equivalent of Vanilla Ice being considered Hip-Hop. A shitty version of it.

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Your criticisms of my comments were valid but I thought that the OS wanted the general criticisms of the genre, not necessarily our own criticisms. So I felt a bit off guard by your comments.

TBH, I don't know much about Disco or that the Philly Soul scene was part of the disco scene. I was mainly trying to sum up criticism of the genre that I had heard.

Like I said there are disco songs that I like and your comment about the stereotype of disco being White music makes sense since there were lots of Black musicians who made a career off of disco.

Edit

I could be misreading the tone of your comment so it is a real possibility that I'm reading too much into your message and taking comments personally when they weren't intended to be.

>Your criticisms of my comments were valid but I thought that
>the OS wanted the general criticisms of the genre, not
>necessarily our own criticisms. So I felt a bit off guard by
>your comments.
>

you're right. I misinterpreted the original post.

>TBH, I don't know much about Disco or that the Philly Soul
>scene was part of the disco scene. I was mainly trying to sum
>up criticism of the genre that I had heard.
>
>Like I said there are disco songs that I like and your comment
>about the stereotype of disco being White music makes sense
>since there were lots of Black musicians who made a career off
>of disco.
>
>Edit
>
>I could be misreading the tone of your comment so it is a real
>possibility that I'm reading too much into your message and
>taking comments personally when they weren't intended to be.

Nah, don't take it personal. Like I said, I read the shit wrong and answered based off that. It wasn't intended as an attack on you in any way. In-Depth Music discussion, my friend. No more, no less.

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I misread the post myself and found out that the OS also said that people could give their own opinion so I understand why where you were coming from now.

Glad we're cool now.

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like George Clinton or Roger Troutman." The misogyny, excessive violence, and "praise" of gang culture. Basic lyrics overall, not as complex as what came from the East Coast at the time.

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I've heard that DJ Muggs and DJ Quik actually created some tracks that Dre based his music off if, but obviously Dre made G-Funk as popular as it was.

But outside of Quik and producers in Dre's own camp, like Daz, there weren't any producers who really added anything new to the genre.

No one reinterpreted the sound along the way to make it fresh.

who basically invented the g-funk sound on Living Like Hustlers, their 1990 set.

and then Shock G and Digital Underground had already been p-funkin it up to great success.

>But outside of Quik and producers in Dre's own camp, like Daz,
>there weren't any producers who really added anything new to
>the genre.
>


Aside from Dre and Warren G, I've never really heard of anybody's music really being called G-Funk. Was it truly a genre, or just one of those meaningless names that got attached to a sound because journalists needed to describe it?

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Big Hutch: Well see, one thing you gotta realize is this, there’s not a direction when I make a record. If I wake up in the morning and say I wanna rap to a Rock track, I rap to it. I’m not in a box. You gotta understand this, I’m the architect of G-Funk. You can’t tell me what G-Funk is. If I want G-Funk to be blowing on a whistle and beating on a box, that’s G-Funk, because I invented it. I am the architect.

DX: I thought Warren Griffin, , was the architect?

Big Hutch: I am the architect of that. Warren Griffin used to sleep on my floor. I am the architect of G-Funk. So when people tell me what I should do and what I should not do, I tell ‘em shut up. I go to the studio and I make records based upon how I feel… And one thing that Eazy taught me while I was at Ruthless , he said, “Look at it like this, Hutch: one day you walked in here and you didn’t have one fan. What did you come in here to do it for? Because of what you felt like doing. Keep doing that and you’ll always be good with yourself.” …I’ll keep it real with you, homie. I went in and cut “Electric Lady” from my heart, not to trick nobody, not because people is on my shit, but because I heard the beat – I heard it in my head, wanted to cut it, and did it and put it out there to the world. I feel comfortable with you saying I don’t like it, Hutch, because I did what I wanna do from my heart.

http://hiphopdx.com/news/id.13154/title.big-hutch-talks-dr-dre-inventing-g-funk-and-his-two-new-albums#

that doesn't mean anything in terms of the mechanics of the music. What are the elements of G-Funk? How does he approach it? What made it go in a different direction than say, textbook West Coast Hip-hop?


Not discounting his contributions, but I can't take it seriously as a genre of music if "I do whatever I feel like doing" is the template. You gotta work within the confines of SOME type of musical template, right?

I can't play Jazz and then just decide that it's Heavy Metal just because that's how I *feel* that day, can I?

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it all started to blend together after a minute

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Everyone doing the Migos flow at this point, without adding much to it. Too slow.

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That's *my* issue with trap; that it sounds plastic and cheap; people could rap about sucking piss through a turd... and *swallowing* if the music was dope. I don't hear good music in the background; I hear what sounds like presets and people not even caring about music on a deeper level... That said, I dig punk and I can dig trap too if it's raw and in your face enough; just like punk in its most basest definition though, I find it difficult to "justify" the style as a whole as "great music". Like, we have 100 years of recorded music from all over te world at our disposal... its difficult for me to go: Trap! YES!!! Then again I'm a white dude in sweden and yada-yada, I don't get it, I'll shut up...

Crunk beats were simple, but they had way more energy to them. With Trap, it's ALLLL about the sonic quality. Fast moving hi hats, deep, strong heavy 808's, and they're in a similar BPM range (65-75 right now, was down to 50-55 in 2013). And it's never any melodies, just ambient sounds....so that's my issue with them.

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"depth" in this case being poor/often simple rhyme schemes, combined with the small range of subject matter. I guess you could just say weak bars

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a lot of it sounded the same, but the cats that were banging out major label remixes ( Steve Silk Hurley, Kevin Saunderson, Maurice Joshua, etc ) were putting in good work.

Not to mention a lot of acts were getting signed to majors. Lil Louis, Larry Heard, Inner City, and a few others.


BUT if we're talking criticism, it's the same old story. There was too much of the same sound on the remix tip. If one producer had a hit, he pretty much turned in the same remix for every song. Which is why I never really dug C&C's work. I didn't really fig their sound, but it was everywhere it seemed.

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Too much focus on gaudy videos and lyrics about being a show of. Too many bells in the production, and too glossy or "polished" of a sound.

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Once upon a time, rap got me into James brown, P-funk, 70's jazz etc. All of a sudden, they were recycling the shitty 80's shit I grew up with *and* hated. Oh yeah, the recycling of previously proved samples in *hip-hop* is another issue...

basically, the idea that hip-hop beats was this magic thing that were NOT just dope on it's *own* terms but also gave you a reason to go digging and finding out stuff was ruined here, replaced with 80's pop (and rap) nostalgia and rap recycling that struck me as every bit as airhead as the "Grease"/"happy dyas" nostalgia I grew up with.

Of course, one could argue that the Jb/Sly/meters-samples were nostalgia too for those who grew up with that. however, how many white folks in sweden did that?

And btw, whiteys infatuation with the underground in this *exact* era is quite teling... Seriously, someone should write a story...

> All of a sudden, they were recycling the shitty 80's
>shit I grew up with *and* hated. Oh yeah, the recycling of
>previously proved samples in *hip-hop* is another issue...

Ennh, I can still rock to anything with a Funky Drummer sample. One of my all time fave drum breaks, but point taken.


>
>basically, the idea that hip-hop beats was this magic thing
>that were NOT just dope on it's *own* terms but also gave you
>a reason to go digging and finding out stuff was ruined here,
>replaced with 80's pop (and rap) nostalgia and rap recycling
>that struck me as every bit as airhead as the "Grease"/"happy
>dyas" nostalgia I grew up with.


exactly. ((insert)) was a hit, so let's sample that for the main groove. Selling memories, basically.



>
>And btw, whiteys infatuation with the underground in this
>*exact* era is quite teling... Seriously, someone should write
>a story...

Agreed.

Word Salad over crazy beats became in vogue for no reason other than "it's underground, not that jiggy shit."

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>jazz etc. All of a sudden, they were recycling the shitty 80's
>shit I grew up with *and* hated.

he started out playing it safe, but when he was making rap versions of '80s pop, I was out

almost expected him to have someone rapping over Devo's "Whip It" at one point

That god damn triangle sound, and that God damn chime tree.

Hip-hop had times where a flashy image or an image that wasn't street got the attention of radio and MTV / BET. But after the Jiggy era, things split into Jiggy and underground. In the past it was fairly common to be a fan of radio hip-hop and hip-hop that flew under the radar. But after the Jiggy era hit, underground heads would rather be caught dead than to admit they liked someone like Jay-Z and a fan of Ma$e wouldn't listen to someone like Mos Def or Common.

Hip-hop became impossible to self-police and it also became cookie-cutter and more disposable.

Some people say it was largely due to sampling laws but I think many of those producers bragged about not having to use samples.

I remember an article in one of the major magazines that said Swizz was the hip-hop Mozart solely based on the fact he didn't sample. Think about how dumb that is for a second.

Hip-Hop's version of a musical genius became a cat that hit no more than 3 notes on a Casio.

>Hip-Hop's version of a musical genius became a cat that hit no
>more than 3 notes on a Casio.

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songs that didn't allow them the space to really flex their voice. Also, songwriting as a whole seemed to be lacking on a lot of it.

Just from watching Unsung, a LOOOT of mid 80's R&B singers couldn't survive once NJS took over.

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he was going cellophane when cats were at a loss of what to do with his voice.

his debut album (from '83) has some of the funniest liner notes I've read, I'm gonna have to post them sometime. but the gist was Johnny was marketed as a youthful counter to the "dirty" music that had come of prominence in R&B (i.e. what happened after Prince got in the door); ironically, some of his early music sounds like they tried to make music like New Edition('s second album).

His second album scrapped all of that and they put him in more of a Luther/Adult Contemporary lane (w/o that Luther production). at 19 years old (the same age Bobby was when he was doing "My Prerogative")

then he joined New Edition, and most importantly, got aligned with Jam/Lewis. he got more uptempo and with producers that could actually do something with his voice.

reason I mention Johnny, is because he has way more in common with the R&B artists that stumbled in the 80s when NJS came around, but he was saved by that trend of music

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

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Lyrically & thematically, too many of them tried to emulate hip-hop. The "R&B Thug" was one of the corniest things to come out of that.

>
> Lyrically & thematically, too many of them tried to emulate
>hip-hop. The "R&B Thug" was one of the corniest things to come
>out of that.
>

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Hall for starting that up

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I'll give Drake credit for that.
They were simply following the tradition of Black vocalists.
The issue was that their instrumentals weren't
strong enough to support their vocal prowess.
So-called "over-singing" has been around in
Black American Music forever. Have yall never
heard Aretha Franklin or Patti Labelle records?
Sam Cooke? Jackie Wilson? No one called them
"over-singers." That stuff comes outta the Black
church. You know this, R-tistic.

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

people doing runs and shit to try to 'church' every song.

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i mean you can't over-saturate the mainstream with: "freak me baby"-type songs

plus (on the over-signing thing) there was little to no build up to the "go off" point of too many songs...you hitting runs after the FIRST VERSE??!?

They thought they were advanced avant garde ZOMG! "grandiose motherfuckers" (c) artistes
when in reality the majority were aight singers over hip hop lite beats

>>when in reality the majority were aight singers over hip hop
>lite beats


Rimshot and a Fender Rhodes.

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my cafeteria lunch table was an endless argument of

Das EFX bit L.O.N.S
who were the fathers of Onyx's style who took it too far
yet Wu-Tang was clearly influenced by them
but don't forget everyone went hardcore after Protect Ya Neck and Bacadafucup
including LL Cool J and Run DMC

fucked up there