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Subject: "Wait. So Dilla really DIDN'T do "Got Til It's Gone?" (swipe)" Previous topic | Next topic
meeatt
Member since Oct 25th 2004
528 posts
Fri Oct-09-15 03:23 PM

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"Wait. So Dilla really DIDN'T do "Got Til It's Gone?" (swipe)"


          

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/jimmy-jam-and-terry-lewis-our-life-in-15-songs-20151009/janet-jackson-when-i-think-of-you-1986-20151008

Quote from Jimmy Jam:

"Q-Tip was a part of that record. J Dilla had done a remix of a Brand New Heavy song that had a feel to it I just loved. I thought if I could come up with something with that feel with Janet, and then put a Joni Mitchell sample over it, that would be a magic combination, taking things from different eras and weaving it together."

WTF? I remember an audio interview with Dilla where he referred to "some funny stuff" going on with that record, and the general consensus has always seemed to be that Dilla and/or Tip did the beat, and Jam & Lewis took credit for it, then threw Dilla a bone by letting him do a remix.

So which is it? paging Quest . . . . .


**************************************************

www.mattferran.com

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Interesting..also, the ATCQ - "Stressed Out" Raphael Saadiq Remix...
Oct 09th 2015
1
Isn't Jimmy Jam the accused here?
Oct 09th 2015
2
RE: Isn't Jimmy Jam the accused here?
Oct 09th 2015
3
I say that's a Dilla beat.
Oct 09th 2015
4
They got enough hits to not claim this one too. So I HOPE
Oct 09th 2015
5
RE: They got enough hits to not claim this one too. So I HOPE
Oct 09th 2015
6
      Yea for sure, Dilla's style surely had some Tip influence
Oct 09th 2015
8
I always considered that a possibility...
Oct 09th 2015
7
So if Dilla or Tip didn't do the beat, can I call Jam & Lewis biters for...
Oct 09th 2015
9
Well Yes & No
Oct 09th 2015
10
thats because he had the bigger name
Oct 10th 2015
11
yeah this makes sense
Oct 10th 2015
12
I believe the Heavies remix they loved was "Sometimes"...
Oct 10th 2015
13
yup...
Oct 12th 2015
20
RE: Well Yes & No
Oct 10th 2015
14
The Ummah had definitely benefited Jay Dee more than not
Oct 10th 2015
15
Honestly, I've always wanted for info on the Ummah...
Oct 11th 2015
18
      the more that time goes on...
Oct 13th 2015
21
RE: Well Yes & No
Oct 10th 2015
16
RE: Well Yes & No
Oct 13th 2015
23
      RE: Well Yes & No
Oct 13th 2015
27
Thanks for the background on this one...
Oct 11th 2015
19
I think that makes sense
Oct 13th 2015
24
      Hell, I still trip that Dilla DIDN'T do "Like it like that" on Love Move...
Oct 13th 2015
25
           why? sounds like a Tip production through and through
Oct 21st 2015
35
Helen Keller could tell you that was a Dilla beat
Oct 11th 2015
17
Okay Dilla's my dude but he ain't fuckin with Jam & Lewis.
Oct 13th 2015
22
Agreed.
Oct 13th 2015
26
It's 1oo% and if you think big name producers don't play dirty pool
Oct 13th 2015
28
RE: It's pretty blatant.
Oct 16th 2015
30
      This right here...
Oct 20th 2015
31
           I know y'all ride hard for Dilla. I still say it might be 20 percent him...
Oct 21st 2015
37
                but if its 20%, shouldnt he be credited for that? esp if its the bones
Oct 22nd 2015
39
I disagree and challenge you to...
Oct 16th 2015
29
      Lol Y'all actin like it was a drastic change in sound for Janet
Oct 21st 2015
38
.He did this hard ass remix of that song..
Oct 20th 2015
32
Flyte Tyme saved the song.
Oct 21st 2015
34
I keep popping into this post looking for
Oct 21st 2015
33
dafuq? it's CLEARLY a dilla production, anyone w/ ears can hear that.
Oct 21st 2015
36

third_i_vision
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Fri Oct-09-15 04:06 PM

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1. "Interesting..also, the ATCQ - "Stressed Out" Raphael Saadiq Remix..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I was actually thinking about posting this yesterday.

So the remix samples Keith Jarrett. I'm almost fucking positive that Raphael Saadiq wasn't flipping Keith Jarrett records like that, in 1996 or any other year. The drums sound like vintage Jay Dee, but on the promo 12", the drum programming is actually credited to some other guy (wish I could remember his name, I'll update when I get back to my crates).

So either Saadiq sampled, replayed or, by pure coincidence, played the exact same notes as the Keith Jarrett record…..AND had somebody come in to program some bouncy, Ummah-style drums?

I'm not even gonna speak about the bassline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFpRX1xVhwY

That entire beat is just TOO Dilla for me to believe otherwise. Or maybe this was another situation similar to what you just posted. Another producer shamelessly imitating the Jay Dee sound.

Then again, Raphael Saadiq was supposed to be the fourth member of The Ummah, so let me stop before I talk in circles.

Any thoughts?

QUEST ARE YOU READING THIS???


Bowls
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PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
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Fri Oct-09-15 04:36 PM

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2. "Isn't Jimmy Jam the accused here?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I mean, are we supposed to take the defendant's word on this one?

  

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meeatt
Member since Oct 25th 2004
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Fri Oct-09-15 04:58 PM

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3. "RE: Isn't Jimmy Jam the accused here?"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Ha. i'm just the messenger here. i don't believe for a second that Jimmy OR Terry made that beat. and i'm a *huge* fan/admirer of them.

nah, that's some Ummah shit right there.


**************************************************

www.mattferran.com

  

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LeroyBumpkin
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Fri Oct-09-15 05:08 PM

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4. "I say that's a Dilla beat."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Love Flyte Tyme.
But I side with Yancey.

@dseals | @digife
https://digife.com

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Fri Oct-09-15 05:22 PM

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5. "They got enough hits to not claim this one too. So I HOPE"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he isn't lying.

To me....it isn't the type song where I say "nah, that IS Dilla, 100% no question" such as a Slum "Players" where the sample was manipulated in a wild way.

------------------------------

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double 0
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Fri Oct-09-15 05:42 PM

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6. "RE: They got enough hits to not claim this one too. So I HOPE"
In response to Reply # 5


          

If Tip is involved... why couldn't it just be Tip and Jam & Terry. Q tip could've definitely made the vibe of that record dilla-esque

Double 0
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Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
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-DJ R-Tistic-
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Fri Oct-09-15 05:43 PM

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8. "Yea for sure, Dilla's style surely had some Tip influence"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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SP1200
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Fri Oct-09-15 05:43 PM

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7. "I always considered that a possibility..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that they made a Dilla inspired beat. And Dilla always would say
something is funny if he thought someone was "biting".

That's a possibility I never ruled out. They're accomplished enough
I think to do a sound alike joint. The worse case scenario is possible
too.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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phemom
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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Fri Oct-09-15 06:24 PM

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9. "So if Dilla or Tip didn't do the beat, can I call Jam & Lewis biters for..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Just saying...

phemom's the name, all-star writer/
searching 4 journalistic fame, mindframe igniter....www.twitter.com/hayabusaage

  

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Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
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Fri Oct-09-15 07:51 PM

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10. "Well Yes & No"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Oct-09-15 07:52 PM by Dj Joey Joe

  

          

Janet, Jimmy, & Terry heard J-Dilla's remix of Brand New Heavies' "Saturday Night", which they liked a lot, so since Q-Tip became friends with Janet after they did the movie Poetic Justice, so they called on Q-Tip to ask who did the beat and to bring over some beats and vibe, well Q-Tip brought over some beats of his and J-Dilla's they heard a beat tape by him and liked one of them, so they asked Q-Tip if they could use that beat and recreate it for a new song (which they did but I think all they did was layered his beat in the back and put some of their production on top), but some reason Q-Tip didn't tell J-Dilla until after the fact.

So later on after the song is done, Dilla sort of get credit to solve this issue, so Janet, Jimmy, Terry, & the label let J-Dilla & Shaheed do their own remixes on the maxi singles (cds & 12"), even though Q-Tip gets it cause he's rapping on the song.

I still think Q-Tip did J-Dilla wrong for letting Jam & Lewis cover his beat and not letting him get credit for it to begin with, but I also notice that for a few years Q-Tip puts his, J-Dilla, & Shaheed's production under the UMMAH name half the time to get work for the crew; like on the Bush Babies 2nd album, there is two songs produced by UMMAH and one features Q-Tip but we all know J-Dilla did production for both but anytime he did production he would get solo credit instead of UMMAH.


https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Sat Oct-10-15 05:20 AM

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11. "thats because he had the bigger name"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

And you get bigger rates for people under you by doing that. Also Tip has always been into the "we succeed and fail as a unit" thing. Thats why all the Tribe stuff was done under that name whether it was he or Shaheed on the boards.
I understand why Dilla wanted to do his own thing, but it wasn't shady practice.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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rl9
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12. "yeah this makes sense"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

them calling it Jay Dee's Revenge Mix might be because of it.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

  

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meeatt
Member since Oct 25th 2004
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Sat Oct-10-15 10:08 AM

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13. "I believe the Heavies remix they loved was "Sometimes"..."
In response to Reply # 10


          

not Saturday Night. but yeah, your account seems like the most plausible scenario. no way Flyte Tyme did those drums, with that bounce.


**************************************************

www.mattferran.com

  

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The3rdOne
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20. "yup..."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

the Saturday Night remix was just a take on Marvin's Got To Give it Up...

now imagine if THAT joint got big like Blurred Lines? Would marvin's estate be in dick mode years waaaay before?

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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Sat Oct-10-15 11:37 AM

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14. "RE: Well Yes & No"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

On Busta's The Coming album production is credited under The Ummah too but is credited to K. Fareed on "Ill Vibe" and J. Yancey on "Still Shining" and "Keep It Moving". Not sure why it wasn't done this way on the Gravity album.

****************************************
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"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic on Common

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PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
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Sat Oct-10-15 01:46 PM

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15. "The Ummah had definitely benefited Jay Dee more than not"
In response to Reply # 10


          

And by the end of the ummah it had runs its course anyway. Dilla had Tip to thank for his success and I'm sure he would've done it all over again.

  

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Remedial
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18. "Honestly, I've always wanted for info on the Ummah..."
In response to Reply # 15
Sun Oct-11-15 04:28 PM by Remedial

  

          

>And by the end of the ummah it had runs its course anyway.
>Dilla had Tip to thank for his success and I'm sure he
>would've done it all over again.

As far was who actually did what and what caused its fracture.

I mean, these cats produced for Janet, Whitney, Michael AND Mariah. I could only imagine what the discography would have looked like if they had stayed together longer.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

  

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liveguy
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21. "the more that time goes on..."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

the more it's getting clearer (to me at least)..

Tip was on the the drums prolly 50% of the time (Dilla other 50%).

Dilla was on the bass 100% of the time.....

Sha was on the melodies for the really pretty ones, Dilla did the sampling otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPTQh_76-Nk

Most cases, we would just give credit to Dilla, but a lot of those Ummah joints were more collaborative than we thought.

Main point tho, we all get why Tip approached it the way he did, but still woulda been nice to know the real story.

Cons opened my eyes when he said on that JuanEp podcast a couple weeks back that Shaheed produced 'Crew' and 'Seperate/Together'.

Oooooh...so that's that Shaheed sound, huh?

Light bulb went off in my mind when he said that.

We see through all that boo boo like it's ghost shit... (c) Quelle Chris

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Numba_33
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Sat Oct-10-15 02:00 PM

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16. "RE: Well Yes & No"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>So later on after the song is done, Dilla sort of get credit
>to solve this issue, so Janet, Jimmy, Terry, & the label let
>J-Dilla & Shaheed do their own remixes on the maxi singles
>(cds & 12"), even though Q-Tip gets it cause he's rapping on
>the song.

I believe the Dilla remix of Got Til It's Gone is titled Dilla's Revenge. I have a copy of a double 12 inch collection of remixes for Got Til It's gone. From what I remember, it's mainly house remixes. I mainly copped it at the time because it would pressed on clear vinyl.

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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guru0509
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23. "RE: Well Yes & No"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          


>I believe the Dilla remix of Got Til It's Gone is titled
>Dilla's Revenge. I have a copy of a double 12 inch collection
>of remixes for Got Til It's gone. From what I remember, it's
>mainly house remixes. I mainly copped it at the time because
>it would pressed on clear vinyl.

Version 1:
01. Radio Edit
02. Mellow Mix
03. Nellee Hooper Master Mix
04. Mellow Mix Edit
05. Album Version


that one?

i need to find the dillas revenge version.

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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Numba_33
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27. "RE: Well Yes & No"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>
>>I believe the Dilla remix of Got Til It's Gone is titled
>>Dilla's Revenge. I have a copy of a double 12 inch
>collection
>>of remixes for Got Til It's gone. From what I remember, it's
>>mainly house remixes. I mainly copped it at the time because
>>it would pressed on clear vinyl.
>
>Version 1:
>01. Radio Edit
>02. Mellow Mix
>03. Nellee Hooper Master Mix
>04. Mellow Mix Edit
>05. Album Version
>
>
>that one?
>
>i need to find the dillas revenge version.


Vinyl One/Side One:
Def Club Mix
Def Radio Mix

Vinyl Two/Side Two:
Armand Van Helden Speedy Garagez Mix

Vinyl Two/Side One:
Nellee ooper Master Mix
Jimmy Jam Mellow Mix
Ummah's Uptown Saturday Night Mix

Vinyl Two/Side Two
Original Extended version
Ummah Jay Dee's Revenge Mix
LP Instrumental

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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Remedial
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19. "Thanks for the background on this one..."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Record industry people are shady...

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

  

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cbk
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Tue Oct-13-15 03:16 PM

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24. "I think that makes sense"
In response to Reply # 10
Tue Oct-13-15 03:17 PM by cbk

          

The drums and bass definitely sound like Jay Dee shit circa 96-97. The filtered bass reminded me most of "get a hold" (the kicks were less ghost note-y than what I think of as Dilla-esque during that time, though).

But honestly, regarding their beats during that time period, if I didn't have the liner notes for both BR&L and TLM, i wouldn't know which ones were "Dilla's" and which ones were "Tip's".

D'ANGELO beat tape PART 2: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/album/dangelo-beat-tape-2020

IPHONE LP2 “A beatmaker who loved” https://music.apple.com/us/album/a-beatmaker-who-loved/1473644375

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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25. "Hell, I still trip that Dilla DIDN'T do "Like it like that" on Love Move..."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Wed Oct-21-15 06:39 PM

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35. "why? sounds like a Tip production through and through"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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17. "Helen Keller could tell you that was a Dilla beat"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Tip said he asked him if he wanted to send something to Janet, and he gave him that one. Considering that he made it happen, I'd believe him over Jam and Lewis.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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81 DUN
Member since Feb 10th 2009
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Tue Oct-13-15 01:25 PM

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22. "Okay Dilla's my dude but he ain't fuckin with Jam & Lewis."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That being said I really don't think them dudes would take credit for that track if they didn't do it themselves. I'm not 100 on it but I'm saying Jam & Lewis did that. Like all yall that think Dilla did that it's not 100 percent.

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Oct-13-15 05:50 PM

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26. "Agreed."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

I can see them having been inspired by Dilla's work. I can see them adding their stuff on top of a beat he made (I suspect theyd credit him as they've credited others they've worked with). But that record as we hear it is not a Dilla production. If anything he co-produced.

fuck you.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
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28. "It's 1oo% and if you think big name producers don't play dirty pool"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

you're crazy. Tip and Dilla both said it's his beat.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Austin
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30. "RE: It's pretty blatant."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>Tip and Dilla both said it's his beat.

Even if they "covered" a Jay Dee beat, like has been proposed, it's still a Jay Dee beat that he should've received at least partial credit for.

All that and the fact that it sounds nothing like Jam and Lewis, before or after.



"1) God doesn't exist

2) And anyhow he's stupid"
—Philip K. Dick

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2015/222933

  

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Remedial
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Tue Oct-20-15 05:55 PM

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31. "This right here..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>All that and the fact that it sounds nothing like Jam and
>Lewis, before or after.

Is all that needs to be said...

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

  

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81 DUN
Member since Feb 10th 2009
1661 posts
Wed Oct-21-15 09:52 PM

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37. "I know y'all ride hard for Dilla. I still say it might be 20 percent him..."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Lots of folks here are talking about that Brand New Heavies remix and linking to that song I don't hear it. Got till It's Gone kinda goes well with Once Again. I still find it weird that most folks champion Dilla but think Beats Rhymes and Life and The Love Movement are just okay albums but that's another story. I love both those Tribe joints btw.

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9675 posts
Thu Oct-22-15 07:30 PM

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39. "but if its 20%, shouldnt he be credited for that? esp if its the bones"
In response to Reply # 37
Thu Oct-22-15 07:31 PM by mikediggz

  

          

of the song? shady no matter how u slice it

>Lots of folks here are talking about that Brand New Heavies
>remix and linking to that song I don't hear it. Got till It's
>Gone kinda goes well with Once Again. I still find it weird
>that most folks champion Dilla but think Beats Rhymes and Life
>and The Love Movement are just okay albums but that's another
>story. I love both those Tribe joints btw.

  

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HIM
Member since May 20th 2002
1733 posts
Fri Oct-16-15 12:52 PM

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29. "I disagree and challenge you to..."
In response to Reply # 22


          

...find one track either pre or post "Got Till Its Gone" produced by Jam and Lewis that sounds even remotely similar to "Got Till Its Gone".

I bet they probably felt like

Jam and Lewis:"Jay Dee? Oh yeah. We're cool with Jermaine. I'm in Atlanta all the time. Let just call him about the beat..."

TIP: No. Not SoSo Def JD, Jay Dee from Detroit. A producer I'm working with on stuff.

Jam and Lewis: Oh...wait who? Never mind.

Jam to Lewis-"We'll just four thousand and eighty the kid. If he complains, we'll toss him a couple grand and let him remix something"


So I really just wrote that so that I could properly use 4080 as a verb but on the real, I just can't see Jam and Lewis being solely responsible for this track.

I wish the original beat tape version was floating around somewhere for us "regular" people to hear.


peace
HIM
www.PlazaMelodic.com
"Lo-Fi Holiday" Now Available!!
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81 DUN
Member since Feb 10th 2009
1661 posts
Wed Oct-21-15 10:02 PM

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38. "Lol Y'all actin like it was a drastic change in sound for Janet"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

You tellin me Got Till It's Gone is on a different planet from That's The Way Love goes. Don't let me get in the way.

  

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jswerve386
Member since Jun 25th 2007
8979 posts
Tue Oct-20-15 10:56 PM

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32. ".He did this hard ass remix of that song.. "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Oct-20-15 10:59 PM by jswerve386

  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN6PoMDI-s8

^^ song killed the original to me at least.

yupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyup

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Oct-21-15 06:01 PM

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34. "Flyte Tyme saved the song."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Dilla's remix is a mess that robs the record of the charm that makes the original great. The remix sounds like the soundtrack for waking up from anesthesia. It makes me dizzy and uncomfortable. I just want to lie down and turn off everything. Not pleasant at all. I've never liked it.

fuck you.

  

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Seven
Member since Dec 11th 2004
10708 posts
Wed Oct-21-15 05:35 PM

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33. "I keep popping into this post looking for "
In response to Reply # 0


          

A 15 (ok) reply...

Sigh

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Wed Oct-21-15 08:31 PM

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36. "dafuq? it's CLEARLY a dilla production, anyone w/ ears can hear that."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

shit sounds like NOTHING jam + lewis have ever done, either before or since. can't believe there's actually argument over this.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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