Last week I was on twitter and one of my peoples said something about 9th Wonder being in his top 5 producers of all time and my first reaction was "you gotta be under 30 to say something like that." So for this week's ep of The Corner Radio we're chopping it up about how your age says a lot about how you see the hip hop game. So, the first question on tap is how old were you when "Illmatic" dropped in '94, why most cats 35 and under think that Nas' "It Was Written" was better then "Illmatic" and Jay's "The Blueprint" was doper then "Reasonable Doubt", why there's no way in hell 9th Wonder is a top 5 producer, what are some of the hip hop traditions that need to be passed down to the youth and most important how can the old heads & the younger generation can stop beefin' and come together to keep the culture moving forward. ANOTHER dope ep ya'll!

So my question for cats are how old were you when Illmatic dropped in '94, is 9th Wonder in your top 5 producers and what do you think is the most important thing that the old school 40 & over cats didn't pass down to these new school cats?

Tracklisting For This Week's Show:
Mad Ism - Channel Live feat. KRS One
The INC Ride - Master Ace
Unstoppable - Mic Geronimo
Tight - Rah Digga
Defeat - Afu Ra
Da Storm - OGC
Priceless - All City
Tick Tock - Alchemist feat. Nas & Prodigy
To Me, To You - PRhyme feat. Jay Electronica
Raw (How You Like It) - Common
Hiatus (Remix) - Diamond D feat. Cru
Talking To My Diary - Dr. Dre
Roses - Smif n Wessun feat. Freeway
So Fresh - Step Brothers (Alchemist & Evidence)
Children Sing - Pace Won & Mr. Green

http://www.willmakebeatsforfood.com/2015/09/the-corner-radio-hosted-by-kil-age-aint.html

The Corner Radio Podcast Hosted by Kil
@Kil889
www.willmakebeatsforfood.com
www.soundcloud.com/kil889

I did promo work for Sony when it came out in Atlanta in charge of college radio. guess I'm not New York enough cause it didn't do that much for me



<=========================================
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Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

17


IWW is the biggest let down album all time. I actually loathe Nas at this point for his slog through mediocrity post Illmatic and his doofy ass face.

My biggest gripe with old heads is 1) that there's too much 'show' and not enough 'tell' in regards to the golden age and old-school hip-hop and 2) that there's too much stuff like I see in here where someone makes an Oddisee vs. Future post to prove a point about lyricism. Regardless of how you feel about today's music, you won't convince anyone that Rakim is better than Fetty Wap via bitching and moaning

IMO the best way to show people the impact of music at a time is via a mix or radio show or documentary or something that shows the effect of the music at the time. If people see the reaction to Big Daddy Kane that people had 25 years ago it might help them see his impact as opposed to reading about it. I listened to the Marley Marl ep on Combat Jack and it definitely got me digging into his back catalogue.

As much as people want to treat music like it's objective, it's really not a lot of the time. A lot of the energy that comes from it is about what it is relative to the times - keep that in midn when you're talking to someone from a different generation

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Love 9th Wonder, but he's not a top 5 producer.

-----------------

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IWW was not better
RD was better (although a decent case can be made for Blueprint, which I won't argue against)

And 9th isn't a top 5...might not even be a top 10 (imo)...not to say he isn't nice though

I prefer IWW slightly. Is it the better album? Probably not but I still like it a little more.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

as the only CD in my car stereo for almost a year now because it's one of my favorite albums ever

School assembly, me and the crew ditch to hit up the record store the day Illmatic was released

and I'll never forget

Must've been winter, because there was a nice layer of ice on the ground

We're walking down a hill and my homie can't stop sliding

We're at the bottom waiting on this fool as he becomes a bowling ball aimed right at us...ahh you had to be there

9th's not in my top 5, but maybe top 10

Preemo
Pete
Dre
Dilla
Q-tip

My biggest issue with what needed to happen generation to generation

There was no turnover

The way native tongues evolved from the jungles to the roots

There wasn't that next turnover

A lot of cats just took up space because they could

When the effort would have been better spent, imo, grooming the next cats.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

Yeah it came out right before Southernplayalistic. Jeru followed a month later. Great way to close out my 9th grade year.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

1994 was the GOAT hip hop year

forgot my iPod...the only station that would come through playing music out on the road was the (50s & 60s) oldies station. After commercials, the epic voice radio guy says "THE GREATEST SONGS EVER WRITTEN...Goodtime Oldies..." etc. Then they play "Please Mr. Postman". Followed by several songs that sound just like it...malt shop, jukebox records.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that record, it's a cool song, it hit, it's landmark for it's time at this point...but are those really the greatest songs ever written? All that "baby baby baby baby I need you I swoon when you look at me" is "back when music had substance" to that generation, and the 70s on down sucked to them. That boggles my mind. And if you disagree, it's because you missed it and you're too young to know what real music is.

Unfortunately, so-called golden age hip hop heads have been just as delusional about their outlook on rap that followed their respective eras. So that's what they didn't pass down. Respect. I believe that we actually respect our elders in hip hop, we just don't worship most of them as much as they'd like. I'm talking about respecting the music enough to let it live past you, and respecting other people enough to not dismiss what they do as soon as you hear it.

I mean, 9th ain't better than Primo (super dope, but ain't even seeing him imo), and I can say that because they're similar...but if someone under 30 prefers 9th to Pete Rock? I think those who disagree should do so respectfully. Music and the way we receive it changes. A 16-year-old in 2015 is no more ignorant than someone who was 16 in 1994. If the stuff oldheads love is so great and transcendent, then what sense does it make to argue that you had to be there to understand it?

It's true that as much as we (I'm 38) celebrate music from the Golden Age, we also are tight-lipped in explaining why music from that time period is better than music from the past 15 years.

Granted, alot of my own personal belief that music from hip-hop especially and music overall was more original than music now is because of simply being there for the releases and living in the music culture of that time.

I think what gets lost by alot of golden age fans is that there was also ten years of garbage, derivative, generic music that went along with it so the golden age wasn't completely worth worshiping.

Also, hip-hop is like it is now, mostly because of the way GenX lost touch with the joy, innocence, and social relevance of the music that we all came up with in the late-80's and early-90's. I don't like alot of music that comes out now, but the music at least is fun for the most part and compared to the explicitness of misogyny of groups like 2 Live Crew and NWA, actually more mature in some respects.

And I have Illmatic ahead of It Was Written...

But I do have Blueprint ahead of Reasonable Doubt...

>Last week I was on twitter and one of my peoples said
>something about 9th Wonder being in his top 5 producers of all
>time and my first reaction was "you gotta be under 30 to say
>something like that." So for this week's ep of The Corner
>Radio we're chopping it up about how your age says a lot about
>how you see the hip hop game. So, the first question on tap is
>how old were you when "Illmatic" dropped in '94, why most cats
>35 and under think that Nas' "It Was Written" was better then
>"Illmatic" and Jay's "The Blueprint" was doper then
>"Reasonable Doubt", why there's no way in hell 9th Wonder is a
>top 5 producer, what are some of the hip hop traditions that
>need to be passed down to the youth and most important how can
>the old heads & the younger generation can stop beefin' and
>come together to keep the culture moving forward. ANOTHER dope
>ep ya'll!
>
>So my question for cats are how old were you when Illmatic
>dropped in '94, is 9th Wonder in your top 5 producers and what
>do you think is the most important thing that the old school
>40 & over cats didn't pass down to these new school cats?
>

9th is not in my top 25 producers but I'm not mad at a young cat that was in high school when 9th was at his peak saying he's in their top 5.

IWW > illmatic
RD >> The Blueprint

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

"honey" is not enough for him to be in my top 5.


the most important thing 40 + didn't pass down is having fun.


I don't consider what's considered fun in hip-hop nowadays as really fun.

>So my question for cats are how old were you when Illmatic
>dropped in '94, is 9th Wonder in your top 5 producers and what
>do you think is the most important thing that the old school
>40 & over cats didn't pass down to these new school cats?

1. 3
2. No, but I am a fan, especially Little Brother era. My top 3 are kinda predictable though....Premo, RZA, Pete Rock...
3. It seems that there is almost no room for relatively complex (in rhyme scheme and/or content) lyricism in the mainstream, whereas I've looked at charts in the past and it seems like that was more popular back then - I mean, Wu was popular as hell and that is evidence enough. That could never ever happen now. Though I don't think this is a case of the old school not passing it down to the new school because my experience with "new school cats", what is popular has just changed - happens in every genre.

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

I never heard "It was written" until later, but I loved "I am." And shockingly, my favorite song from Nastradamus was "You owe me."

Yet, with that, Illmatic is still much, much better than all of his other albums, and it's the only one I listen to now. I wasn't a huge "Boom Bap Hip Hop" type of head as a kid, and got into that more so in High School and College. I always loved Tribe and Gangstarr, but never heard a LOT of the albums that East Coast heads praised in the mid 90's.

------------------------------

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I hate that I called them that.

Them old crusty samples just reminded me of the videos with trashcan fires that I would see on Rap City. Dr. Dre had singles for bright, sunny days, and videos pulling titties out.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

I would hear were pretty boring too me...I would perk up for certain ones here and there, but most of the ones that didn't get big like Wu/Tribe/Redman didn't move me.

------------------------------

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.

A lotta those songs just felt boring to us, and even today, a lot of my friends aren't huge fans of the songs.

"Come clean" is amazing, yet I can play it and folks my age don't even know what it is or who made it.

------------------------------

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At least for east coast hip hop. That damn trash can was "Awl in the videos" (c) Suge voice; more than Puffy was back then...

#PicABeat Audio Photo series. Where the beat is inspired by the photo.
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“I love these bitches, man. I really do.”
- Andre 3000

I think I got Stillmatic first, and then backtracked from there. Illmatic is my favorite Nas album.

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundcloud.com/sectachrome

The Source was pretty much the bible for music reviews then and at that point i dont believe there were any other 5 mic albums. I had only heard Nas at that point on Live at the BarBeQue (i was a west coast kid) and wasnt super impressed. So that 5 mic review was completly out of left field for me. I think I went out that day and copped the album and played it back to back to back to back..

Classic album.

yupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyup

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
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Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

not before Illmatic. maybe 1 or 2

yupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyup

I think I probably heard it for that first time in about 2000. I remember though that my uncle had IWW around the time it came out and I definitely listened not too long after it dropped.

Illmatic is the superior album to me. Easily.

I will say though that I think it's important to contextualize albums. And for that reason, pre-96 albums (Illmatic, Ready to Die, 36 Chambers and Southernplayalistic aside) don't usually end up on my top albums list. I couldn't appreciate them in their proper context so I don't have the emotional connection to like It Takes A Nation of Millions, or Criminal Minded. Even albums that I think are great like Midnight Marauders, I don't think I can appreciate fully because I was just too young when they came out.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

13..

Played IWW more until I got older. I liked Illmatic a lot but wasn't necessarily INTO Nas until Pink Suit/Firm era..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
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IG: @godouble0
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Illmatic is still the goat album to me.

9th no not top 5 for sure, nor top 20. Liked his Little Brother stuff tho but rarely listen to them any more either.

...most people i was around HATED IWW when it dropped because of the production ..thats why "Nas is Like" was such a huge song.. that was a long await return to the Illmatic sound..

i love 9th Wonder, i think he's been one of the best since 2001.. but he's not cracking my all time top 20...

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I prefer Illmatic and it's one of my "trapped on an island, can only bring 10 albums" type albums, but I never had any hate towards IWW like I discovered some did. I still like IWW a whole lot.

Reasonable Doubt>>Blueprint

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

Didn't hear it until two years later though.

https://digife.com

Snoozeprint isn't even 1/4 the album RD is. I actually think IWW is closer to Illmatic than BP to RD and I hate IWW.


9th was my guy for many years but he isn't even top 25.

>why most cats 35 and under think that Nas' "It Was Written" was better then "Illmatic"...

Blasphemy

___________________________________________________________
Giants, Knicks, Yankees, Rangers

Illmatic THE GOAT hip hop album, and I think people who say Blueprint is better than Reasonable Doubt are crazy.

I'm actually curious who are Your top 5 producers.

For me, 9th basically carried a whole crew on his back for several years. There are albums worth of 9th beats and I just don't feel like there are many producers that have that type of resume.

I'll admit I am a HUGE fan of 9th's early work, so if you're one of those "I hate 9th's drums" people, we probably can't relate, but 9th has:

little brother albums
Justus League albums from cats I only listened to because of his beats
a ton of placements on prominent records
several whole albums with MURS, Buckshot, and Jean Grae

When I say he has full albums I don't even mean albums worth, I mean whole cohesive albums.

I'm young, whatever. School me on why 9th shouldn't be in your top 5 or at least in consideration.

CORRECTION school me on why 9th shouldn't be in your top 5 only if your answer isn't so stupid stuff about how he EQ's his beats or some other music snob BS that I won't understand without $1000 headphones.

Also, who should be in my top 5. Dilla?

www.anwarmorse.com
https://www.instagram.com/thereal_anwarmorse99/

Personally my top 5 are Dilla, Primo, Marley Marl, The Bomb Squad & Pete Rock.

Now as far as why 9th shouldn't be in anyone's top 5 EVER is because there are way too many people who have done more in the production game then 9th. Like I said in the podcast if 9th is in your top 5 depending on who else rounds out your top 5 you're excluding a lot of the godfathers of the beat game. For exp. my man on twitter said his top 5 was Primo, Dilla, Pete, 9th & Dre...so he's saying 9th Wonder is better then Just Blaze, The Bomb Squad, Alchemist, Large Pro, Marley Marl, Hurby Luv, Hitman Howie Tee, etc. etc. If cats wanna say he's one of the top 5 producers who have dropped post 2000, I can give you that but EVER?!?!?! Nah.

But I understand why you feel like he would be top 5 which is because of your age. You were 5 when PE's Nations came out so there's no way you could appreciate what the Bomb Squad was doing. You were 4 were Marley was KILLING the game. You were 7 when Large Pro was the only producer in the game making beats that actually had solo's in them (peep Main Source's Snake Eyes). You were 5 when Hitman Howie Tee was holding Brooklyn down...so I get it. There's no way that our top 5's would look the same and I wouldn't expect it to be.

Now I feel what you're saying about 9th's body of work and like I said over and over through the podcast I'm in no way dissing 9th but I think dude a good producer at best. It may be because I produce so nothing 9th has ever done has made me scratch my head on some ole "how'd he do that?" Where as all the dude's in my top 5 have KEPT me scratching my head over and over again. But again, that's the producer in me. And yeah, I know 9th has produced a lot but to me that doesn't mean anything to me. I know producers who have produced 6+ albums for cats and they're not cracking my top 10. I would challenge you to listen to some Alchemist, some Bomb Squad, some Marley, some Large Pro and see the stuff that they were doing which was freaking MIND BLOWING. Would love to polly with you offline to explain some of the CRAZY stuff they were doing at the time that probably won't seem crazy now in 2015.

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JustBlaze is dope, and has done some crazy flips but he lacks the volume for me.

Alchemist-I like him and all, but I sincerely just enjoy 9ths music more.

large pro- I love the first Main Source but outside of few joints here and there illmatic etc. I don't know he's done (not saying its insignificant I'm just ignorant).

The bomb squad- you mean "it takes a nation of millions..." and "fear of a black planet" I respect the hell out of them but can't say I bump those albums very often.

What up with marley marl Hitman Towie Tee, and Hurby luv. I mean I know Marley is dope and probably have listened to a ton of his beats and not realized but school me to some stuff I should check out. That's what I'm here for!

www.anwarmorse.com
https://www.instagram.com/thereal_anwarmorse99/

Maaaaaaaaaaan...for Marley you gotta check out all of those old Cold Chillin' releases. Kane's Long Live the Kane, Biz's Goin Off, Master Ace's Take A Look Around, Kool G Rap's Road to the Riches, MC Shan's Down By Law. Even his early Roxanne Shante stuff going back to 85. And don't get me started on Eric B. for President & My Melody for Rakim. And cats LOVE to sleep on it but LL's Mama Said Knock You Out was 5 mics for me and that's ALL Marley! Marley was the dude who set the foundation for all the producers in the game. He was the first (if I'm not mistaken) to start choppin gup drums so you weren't just looping a drum break. I could go on with Marley for YEARS!

Hitman Howie Tee gets slept on too but he was behind the Real Roxanne, Chubb Rock, Special Ed stuff. And Hurby Luv Bug was behind Salt n Pepa, Kid n Play, Kwame, Dana Dane & Sweet Tee. Nobody ever talks about that crew cause they weren't hood or street but they all made dope music and all of the cats I just named I STILL bang all of their debut albums that Hurb produced minus Kwam's 1st jawn. Here's a mix I did on Hurby that you can stream....

http://www.willmakebeatsforfood.com/2015/04/hyped-up-by-hurb-supa-def-produsa.html

The Corner Radio Podcast Hosted by Kil
@Kil889
www.willmakebeatsforfood.com
www.soundcloud.com/kil889

I *loathe* the below mindset because at some point you gotta stop thinking in terms of "respect" and just pick your top 5 based on who you think made the best beats. Hip-hop is almost what, 40 years old now? When does the "you can't have a top 5 without the godfathers!" mindset end? At the century mark? You can respect the originators and not have them in your top 5. The two are not mutually exclusive. Otherwise why do any new producers bother trying? Know what I mean?

>Now as far as why 9th shouldn't be in anyone's top 5 EVER is
>because there are way too many people who have done more in
>the production game then 9th. Like I said in the podcast if
>9th is in your top 5 depending on who else rounds out your top
>5 you're excluding a lot of the godfathers of the beat game

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

...they dont



edit: for producers, i kind of see your point.. but for MC's in my mind, nobody has surpassed Rakim yet so... (i know off topic)

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>RE: at what point does Al Jefferson rank close to Wilt????
>...they dont

Uhhh...OK.

>edit: for producers, i kind of see your point.. but for MC's
>in my mind, nobody has surpassed Rakim yet so... (i know off
>topic)

OK fine. If you base it on TALENT, you're probably right. I think it's arguable, but at least that opinion is (presumably) devoid of any "YOU GOTTA RESPECT THE ELDERS" bullshit. Rakim is actually still in the GOAT discussion based on talent alone, so I can't hate that opinion if that is indeed the case. But if you're basing your opinion off of solely (or even partially) the "respect" factor, I hate your argument and give it no weight.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>>RE: at what point does Al Jefferson rank close to Wilt????
>>...they dont
>
>Uhhh...OK.
>
>>edit: for producers, i kind of see your point.. but for
>MC's
>>in my mind, nobody has surpassed Rakim yet so... (i know off
>>topic)
>
>OK fine. If you base it on TALENT, you're probably right. I
>think it's arguable, but at least that opinion is (presumably)
>devoid of any "YOU GOTTA RESPECT THE ELDERS" bullshit. Rakim
>is actually still in the GOAT discussion based on talent
>alone, so I can't hate that opinion if that is indeed the
>case. But if you're basing your opinion off of solely (or even
>partially) the "respect" factor, I hate your argument and give
>it no weight.


yes, based on talent alone.. for example, if you've never heard hip hop before and i give you a drake verse and then a rakim verse, you should be able to tell me who is the better MC. It should be clear as day. Respect shouldn't have anything to do with it.

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>yes, based on talent alone.. for example, if you've never
>heard hip hop before and i give you a drake verse and then a
>rakim verse, you should be able to tell me who is the better
>MC. It should be clear as day. Respect shouldn't have
>anything to do with it.


Ok good.

But then ----- what exactly is up with your Al Jefferson/Walt Chamberlain "analogy"? Just confirm you were kidding so I can move on mentally. Haha.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

...i was trying to compare Big Al, who's newish/current and one of the last true big men in the league to do really well, and 9th wonder who's newish/current and one of the last boom bap producers in hip hop to do really well

so, just because over the last decade 9th might be a top 5 producer, does not mean he's anywhere near the top 5 all time..

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>...i was trying to compare Big Al, who's newish/current and
>one of the last true big men in the league to do really well,
>and 9th wonder who's newish/current and one of the last boom
>bap producers in hip hop to do really well
>
>so, just because over the last decade 9th might be a top 5
>producer, does not mean he's anywhere near the top 5 all
>time..

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

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But no. Just a fan of better analogies.

But seriously I laughed out loud, that was good.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

>I *loathe* the below mindset because at some point you gotta
>stop thinking in terms of "respect" and just pick your top 5
>based on who you think made the best beats. Hip-hop is almost
>what, 40 years old now? When does the "you can't have a top 5
>without the godfathers!" mindset end? At the century mark? You
>can respect the originators and not have them in your top 5.
>The two are not mutually exclusive. Otherwise why do any new
>producers bother trying? Know what I mean?



__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

Fam...pick whoever you think is the best ever. I think Alchemist is better then a lot of the "forefathers" of the game. I'm not saying "your top 5 better be somebody from the 90's" but guess what? The bulk of these post 2000 producers aren't bringing that heat! I know a lot of cats who have Just & Kanye in their top 10...now neither makes mine but I ain't mad that someone else has them I get it. But there's NO way someone can tell me 9th is in your top 5 cause at that moment I realize we gotta stop kicking it. I was in the barbershop & some dude told me Iverson (who is my fave player EVER) was a top 5 player EVER and I was like "cool" and started talking to someone else cause if you think Iverson...is a top 5 player EVER...not point guard but player...EVER! You have no idea what you're talking about! Ever realize that 90% of the people on ESPN, Fox Sports, etc. are ALL 35 and older? There's a reason for that...

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I'm not arguing for 9th, he's not in my top 5. I'm arguing that the mindset of "having X producer from post-1999 in your top 5 means you're leaving out the originators!" is wack and worthless. You can argue all day about why you think the originators are MORE TALENTED, and I'll engage you. But as soon as the argument becomes "but he was the first to sample!" or "WHERE'S THE RESPECT FOR THE GODFATHERS?" I can no longer engage you on the subject.

Get what I'm saying?

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

this is all based on "opinion".

It's all "personal opinion" mixed with a dash of "popular opinion".

And there is the issue of all of the variables to consider...

Best producer meaning?????

-most hits?
-most output?
-most creative?
-most respected?
-best "producer" in the true meaning of "producer"
or
-best "producer" as far as being a "beat maker" in general.


So many layers but at the end of the day...it's just your personal opinion.

For the most part, there is no way to prove who is "the best".

peace
HIM
www.PlazaMelodic.com
"Lo-Fi Holiday" Now Available!!
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/lo-fi-holiday/id985794237
https://plazamelodic.bandcamp.com/album/lo-fi-holiday
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I am always all in for lengthy discussions about who people think is the best and why. My only point was that if you are the type to include "respect for the forefathers of rap" as part of your argument, I lose interest in pretty much anything else you have to say. I hate that dismissive shit. It's baseless, thoughtless and lazy. New producers can make bangers, too. You don't have to like it. Maybe it's not your thing. That's fine. But tell me why. Tell me you don't like his sample usage, or something like that with some substance. In the end, like you said, everyone's taste is different and therefore their opinion will be different. But that's what makes it fun to discuss. But, again, if the crux of your argument for X producer vs Y producer is "well he's one of the originators" then I can't take anything else you say seriously. Tell me about X producer's drums. Tell me about his use of funky basslines. Tell me about his ability to get the most out of the MCs he works with. I may not agree with you but at least your argument has some substance. Just don't tell me that he's better because he was born earlier. That's all.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I guess I should have started by saying that I agree 100% with what you said.
I knew what I was thinking but I just forgot that you can't read my mind.lol

So yeah. You are correct.
And i'd even add on by saying that in addition to eras, regions matter too.
Ive heard a lot of people over the years list Beats by the Pound, Jazzy Pha and Organize Noise in their top 5.

Each time i've heard this, it's someone who lives in the south or is from the south.

So once you consider those factors, the truth of the matter is, it's really all just opinion!

That's how my 1st response should have went. lol

But also, respect to you for requesting real life reasons as to why someone should or should not be in someone's top 5.

Again, you are very correct. If the reason is "Cuz he got bangerz" then...uh ok. My response is..."that's just your opinion".

The thing about getting an explanation is, the thing(s) that someone says to state their case, may not be the things that are important to you as a fan.
You might use the over all vibe of a song in it's finished form to determine who you think is best.

If I start telling you to put on those $1000 headphones and listen to how Dilla pured bleach on the b-side of this test pressing of Red Head King Pin's "Do The Right Thing" and let it dry long enough so that when he replayed it in reverse on a toy turntable, it made a word sound like a hand clap which he later used on a song he made for Frank and Dank, and this is why he is the Greatest, you'd be looking at me like I was an idiot.

On the flipside though, some people would hear those types of stories and wet themselves just thinking about how awesome it was that he did it that way.


So yeah, that's what I was trying to say at first.

peace
HIM
www.PlazaMelodic.com
"Lo-Fi Holiday" Now Available!!
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/lo-fi-holiday/id985794237
https://plazamelodic.bandcamp.com/album/lo-fi-holiday
http://soundcloud.com/beatroom88

>The thing about getting an explanation is, the thing(s) that
>someone says to state their case, may not be the things that
>are important to you as a fan.
>You might use the over all vibe of a song in it's finished
>form to determine who you think is best.
>
>If I start telling you to put on those $1000 headphones and
>listen to how Dilla pured bleach on the b-side of this test
>pressing of Red Head King Pin's "Do The Right Thing" and let
>it dry long enough so that when he replayed it in reverse on a
>toy turntable, it made a word sound like a hand clap which he
>later used on a song he made for Frank and Dank, and this is
>why he is the Greatest, you'd be looking at me like I was an
>idiot.
>
>On the flipside though, some people would hear those types of
>stories and wet themselves just thinking about how awesome it
>was that he did it that way.
>
>
>So yeah, that's what I was trying to say at first.

Yep. I'm in agreement. All I'd say to conclude is that everything you said that I quoted above can be respected because they are at least "tangible" (relative to the "godfathers" argument) reasons to like X producer over Y producer. Like I said, I may not agree, and those may not be my reasons for liking rap production....but at least you're talking about the music and not about the time period he produced in. That argument is the equivalent of "first!" in internet forums. Haha.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>but at least you're
>talking about the music and not about the time period he
>produced in. That argument is the equivalent of "first!" in
>internet forums. Haha.

Right!

peace
HIM
www.PlazaMelodic.com
"Lo-Fi Holiday" Now Available!!
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/lo-fi-holiday/id985794237
https://plazamelodic.bandcamp.com/album/lo-fi-holiday
http://soundcloud.com/beatroom88

including every guy you mentioned.
Age doesn't have anything to do with it.
He could've taken the same route as me and gone back and listened
to all those guys.


I think it all depends on what your access point to hiphop is
and where you branch out afterwards.

Like I started with Wu-Tang Forever, E.1999, and No Way Out.

Moved to Wu Solos and Biggie.
From there I learned Primo and other prodcuers.

From Primo I opened up all kinds of doors.

Nas and Illmatic. (all the producers)
Q-Tip got me into Tribe.
Tribe got me into Art Blakey while I was also starting my journey into jazz through the entry points like Miles and John Coltrane.

The producers introduced me to a lot of the artists.

I know it's backwards but liner notes and the internet helped me
go back and discover music I might not ever had heard.

Like a Russell Simmons and Rick Rubin book really prepped me for the early days of Def Jam and my couple years of studying Slick Rick, PE and Bomb Squad, EPMD. But also Rakim, Kool G Rap, some BDK wasn't as much of a fan. Paul's Boutique. a little Run DMC.

Around 99 discovered The Roots, so then Common, Mos, Talib,
Soundbombing.


If his access point was like The Roots and this site
well we were all pretty big on Little Brother.
If he was a huge Little Bro and 9th fan, then there was a ton of 9th beats he coulda got stuck on for years.

I think a lot of it also depends on how much of a sponge you are and how much new music you enjoy. Some times I'm heavy into a period of discovery and some times I heavy into a period of studying and not looking for much new music.

Entry points!

-----
Cameo
Soundshape Records

IMO, the listening is a classic/5 mic album

and the minstrel show was just as good

so yeah, cats want to throw out a gang of names

i.e. timbo, just blaze, etc...

but those cats usually contribute heat rocks on 1 or 2 jawns

how many producers do whole albums front to back

and/or the majority of the tracks

like 9th did

and the resultant project is incredible

havoc?

muggs?

it's not a long list, imo

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

in regards to producing entire albums for people.

Just - Freeway (if 9th had Khrysis dropping 3 or 4 songs on a rapper album and 9th doing the rest) then Freeway's debut counts for Just.
- Saigon's album


Ye - his first 2 or 3 solos.

Timbaland - lol - I know he did Bubbasparxx's 2nd album. Hate Bubba but the production on that 2nd album was crazy. I don't know if he produced all of Aliyah's album's but he might have.

Mannie Fresh produced all of 400 Degreez. AND all of the Cash Money catalog through Wayne's like 500 Degreez probably.

9th is not the only guy.

-----
Cameo
Soundshape Records

in regards to producing entire albums for people."

sure, maybe they've done whole albums

but that wasn't the only premise of my statement

"Just - Freeway (if 9th had Khrysis dropping 3 or 4 songs on a rapper album and 9th doing the rest) then Freeway's debut counts for Just.
- Saigon's album"

neither of which would I consider a classic album


"Ye - his first 2 or 3 solos."

sure, Kanye has some incredible projects

I'll concede Kanye, which is my point.

"Timbaland - lol - I know he did Bubbasparxx's 2nd album. Hate Bubba but the production on that 2nd album was crazy. I don't know if he produced all of Aliyah's album's but he might have."

smh

"Mannie Fresh produced all of 400 Degreez. AND all of the Cash Money catalog through Wayne's like 500 Degreez probably."

I'm not a fan.

"9th is not the only guy."

didn't say he was the only guy

what I said was

"IMO, the listening is a classic/5 mic album

and the minstrel show was just as good

so yeah, cats want to throw out a gang of names

i.e. timbo, just blaze, etc...

but those cats usually contribute heat rocks on 1 or 2 jawns

how many producers do whole albums front to back

and/or the majority of the tracks

like 9th did

and the resultant project is incredible

havoc?

muggs?

it's not a long list, imo"

IMO, saigon, freeway and bubbasparxx aren't in the same conversation for albums as the first 2 little brother albums

I think you missed the point.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

My dude...did you just ask about Muggs and Havoc?!?!? REALLY??!?!? I'm PRAYING that was a typo cause Havoc has 2 BEYOND classic Mobb Deep albums that 9th could only day dream about making. Sheeeeeeeeet Shook One Part 2 puts ANYTHING 9th did to shame. And you didn't rock with Cypress' 1st 2 albums which was ALL Muggs? I know cats front but Justin Future Sex Love Sounds & the 1st 20/20 album Timbo did for Justin are BANGERS! And all of the earlier Missy albums and Ginuwine's 1st banger?!?! You can't be serious. And Ye?!?!? Again College Dropout is better then ANYTHING that ANYBODY put out from UNC! John Legend's 1st album was classic. Common's Be was classic...come on dude stop. To me the ONLY dude who hasn't produced an album for delf is Just Blaze and that's the achielles heel for dude IMO but if you look at it like ball, even if a player keeps getting hurt and can't play a full season doesn't mean he's still better then half the cats in the league (Exp. Grant Hill) 9th couldn't be better then Just if he used he 3 wishes!

The Corner Radio Podcast Hosted by Kil
@Kil889
www.willmakebeatsforfood.com
www.soundcloud.com/kil889

I said it was a short list of producers that have done classic/incredible projects

front to back and/or the majority

my listing havoc and muggs were examples of names that would be on the list

and no, I don't consider JT or Missy albums classic

IMO.

I was replying to a point that I think is valid, and overlooked when considering producers in hip-hop

again

cats like just, etc...get props for dope tracks

but don't have classic albums where they were the sole producer

or did the majority of the tracks on an album

so yes, a producer like Kanye laying down production on incredible albums

that's my point

simply pointing out that, IN MY OPINION

my musical tastes, preferences, etc...

has the first 2 little brother albums ahead of alot these 'better' producers efforts.

the list of producers who have contributed classic albums where they were the sole producer and/or did the majority of the tracks

is a short list

in addition to the go tos of Dre, Pete, Rza, etc...

I'd put muggs, hav, ye and 9th on that list as well

I'm not sure what you're missing here?

to play on your bball analogy and injuries

it would be like arguing CP3 is better than Steph Curry

when one of those guys has a ring and an MVP

and the other doesn't.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

Lol...you're a funny dude. Lacking reading comprehension skills...that's funny. You're right they're your opinions & God bless you for being entitled to have them but if you put 9th's name next to Havoc's...this is where the convos gotta end. Keep it real out here in these 30 & under streets.

The Corner Radio Podcast Hosted by Kil
@Kil889
www.willmakebeatsforfood.com
www.soundcloud.com/kil889

I know people that would def pick Philly Freeway over The Listening or The Minstrel Show.

400 Degreez over The Listening or The Minstrel Show.

Point wasn't missed, it's not as solid as you think it is.

If you polled people what's the classic between 400 Degreez and either LB album, the poll gonna come back 400 Degreez.

You say eh, I don't like 400 Degreez or never heard or not my taste...

same thing gonna be said for Little Brother.


9th isn't anywhere near a Just or Mannie Fresh.

-----
Cameo
Soundshape Records

>I know people that would def pick Philly Freeway over The
>Listening or The Minstrel Show.
>
>400 Degreez over The Listening or The Minstrel Show.
>
>Point wasn't missed, it's not as solid as you think it is.
>
>If you polled people what's the classic between 400 Degreez
>and either LB album, the poll gonna come back 400 Degreez.
>
>You say eh, I don't like 400 Degreez or never heard or not my
>taste...
>
>same thing gonna be said for Little Brother.
>
>
>9th isn't anywhere near a Just or Mannie Fresh.

Only if the poll isn't on OKP. No way 400 degreez wins a poll against LB here

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

-----
Cameo
Soundshape Records

People who love illmatic era hip hop....whether they know it or not....like blues and jazz. We love the instrumental for 'One love' because of the moody, smoky, it's raining in the city at night-time jazz vibe.

The majority of modern hip hop doesn't have blues or jazz in it. It's based on pop music, techno, edm...stuff like that. The music needs to sound like an 'event'. Like the introduction of a wrestling match or something like that. That's why modern hip hop is characterized by huge swells. Big build-up. Release. Refrain. Build-up. Release. Refrain. Lil Jon exemplifies this. You can chart the song by 'energy level' and watch it go up and down. So in that context....you can see how modern hip hop fans listen to the instrumental of 'One Love' and find it boring. The energy level is static. It's 'uneventful'......it's just a moody vibe. They simply don't like jazz and blues.

Lil Jon's music has more in common with ACDC or Metallica than it does with A tribe called Quest or something like that. It's about dynamics. Quiet, Loud, Really Quiet, Really loud. Boom-bap hip hop doesn't really have dynamics and that's what makes it boring to people who don't dig it.

I personally prefer IWW to Illmatic because of how much Nas matured as a writer (Illmatic = young prodigy w/ infinite potential; IWW = a young virtuoso closing in on his prime, and therefore giving a clearer idea of where he'd peak), and as a johnny-come-lately I don't see the beats as a huge fall-off, just different, and a little more slick. I do dig jazz & blues myself, but good point about current music.

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

I've never understood my musical tastes more than I do right now after reading that. I have spent so much time wondering why I just cannot get into this new hip-hop. Now I know.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

No problem fam...it's what I do. I coach cats through this game called life.

The Corner Radio Podcast Hosted by Kil
@Kil889
www.willmakebeatsforfood.com
www.soundcloud.com/kil889

Nice.

Just in case, I want to be clear that I was not at all being sarcastic in my response. Upon re-reading just now I think it could have been taken as sarcasm. It absolutely was not.

>No problem fam...it's what I do. I coach cats through this
>game called life.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415