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Lobby The Lesson topic #2913708

Subject: "what's the Lesson's thoughts on this GD post re: race & hip-hop?" Previous topic | Next topic
phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 12:06 PM

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"what's the Lesson's thoughts on this GD post re: race & hip-hop?"


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12680215&mesg_id=12680215&page=#12681294

this really made a lot of sense to me, the idea that some folks think cultural authenticity is a birthright & not necessarily something that's earned?

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
it's accurate.
Dec 20th 2014
1
even as just a fan of "Black music" & an aging potbellied ofay...
Dec 20th 2014
2
fwiw i REALLY enjoyed her dragging Action Bronson on the twitter
Dec 20th 2014
3
this response to the post is fuel for the fire
Dec 20th 2014
4
[copied response from GD]
Dec 20th 2014
5
once it's released it don't belong to you no more.
Dec 20th 2014
6
you didn't understand what i wrote or i wasn't clear enough
Dec 20th 2014
8
this deserves a thoughtful & detailed response
Dec 21st 2014
10
RE: [copied response from GD]
Dec 21st 2014
11
He's out of line and trivializing the argument
Dec 20th 2014
7
Macklemore > Minaj, French Montana, ASAP, etc
Dec 20th 2014
9

Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 12:32 PM

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1. "it's accurate. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i often use eminem as an example.
he grew up and Detroit and liked the hip hop.

when he decided to make music, that's the type of music he made.
what other music could he have possibly made?
should he have been a folk singer?

rap is what he was exposed to, so that's what he made.


that being said, the color of your skin does matter.
culture and art is learned behavior. whether or not your take on black art is offensive
boils down to convincing your act is.

and yes, everybody in show business (and maybe everybody alive) is acting to some degree. even if the act is that you're not acting.
that's life.

i have no opinion on iggy,
but the claims that she's a culture vulture are a bit much.

i'd say the same for robin thicke and JT.
the only reason it comes up is they aren't as good at what they do
as George Michael or Teena Marie.

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 12:57 PM

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2. "even as just a fan of "Black music" & an aging potbellied ofay..."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

let some young Black kid come to me & try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to hip-hop & i'd probably laugh in their face

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 01:04 PM

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3. "fwiw i REALLY enjoyed her dragging Action Bronson on the twitter"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

shit was hilarious, dude completely exposed what a dickfaced biter he is

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 01:44 PM

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4. "this response to the post is fuel for the fire"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12680215&mesg_id=12680215&page=#12681322

im sure dude is "joking" but guaruntee you dude has no rhymes of his own so the "attack" is pretty funnystyle


I might be missing the joke though

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2729 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 02:20 PM

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5. "[copied response from GD]"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the thing you are overlooking.... is... what is culture? is it the products (music, dance, food) or is the a priori paradigms and collective experiences that have led to the creation of the products?

so when azalea banks says she created hip hop she's saying black folks went through a specific set of circumstances and have a different worldview that made hip hop possible in the first place. no other group of folks would have done it.

so... yes you can LISTEN and be influenced by hip hop but you are dealing with it on its most simplest of levels I.e. the actual product. you have not experienced the black American experience nor were you raised with what would consider a black worldview.

ownership of culture means you have been through it.

you can't understand hip hop the way a black person does because you haven't been dehumanized... you haven't had generations go through slavery... you didn't populate housing projects in the south Bronx harlem or Bk. (not you per se... but a typical white american)

also...a plane is an invention.... culture evolves. too different to make analogies.

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 02:31 PM

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6. "once it's released it don't belong to you no more. "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

i mean maybe i didn't experience the disillusionment
that led to "there's a riot going on."

but once it's out there, everybody is gonna have a reaction to it.
so if somebody (white) hears that album and it touches them,
it's gonna come out in their music.

it SHOULD come out in their music.
are they supposed to pretend they didn't hear it?

Black music is worldwide. it has been from sometime.
from jazz to soul to hip hop, it's difficult to find any element of the pop music landscape
that wasnt directly touched by black music.

yeah, the way you relate to Black music might be different,
but you aren't the only one hearing this music.

it's gonna affect other ppl, whether you like it or not.

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2729 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 03:49 PM

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8. "you didn't understand what i wrote or i wasn't clear enough"
In response to Reply # 6
Sat Dec-20-14 03:50 PM by howardlloyd

  

          

the important part of culture can't be heard or touched.

the culture that can be touched...is the tip of the iceberg so to speak.

the heart of culture is how you define the world, the collective consciousness of a group with a shared history etc....

when blacks came here the tip of the iceberg were taken (you can't have drums, not going to be eating cassava and yam etc, speak your language etc)...but we immediately took the heart of our culture (i.e. the worldview) and applied to the physical things we COULD have here

black people speak english with west african grammar and syntax
black people took european instruments and made very african music
black people took christianity and flipped it so it fit we OUR definition of the world

etc etc

so again hip hop wouldn't exist if it wasn't for what blacks in the diaspora went through.

to OWN it you have to be a part of that collective consciousness. its the reason so many hip hop lovers are just tourists and eventually make their way back home (cage anyone?)

can you participate? sure. is it american culture? sure. does it mean something totally different to the group who's collective consciousness spawned it? you would be foolish to think otherwise.

i'm sure there are customs that jews adopted during the holocaust because of the experience. some of those things may have been integrated/used by other folks. it won't mean the same thing to them as it does to the jews. not even close

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Sun Dec-21-14 05:43 AM

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10. "this deserves a thoughtful & detailed response"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

hopefully i can muster something later today

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Sun Dec-21-14 06:51 PM

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11. "RE: [copied response from GD]"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>the thing you are overlooking.... is... what is culture? is
>it the products (music, dance, food) or is the a priori
>paradigms and collective experiences that have led to the
>creation of the products?

i'd say it's a collective & organic (meaning the level of exposure is sufficient that people can engage the experience beyond pure imitation & regularly engage others that are the same) experience of a group that radiates out & can impact more i grained aspects of culture

>so when azalea banks says she created hip hop she's saying
>black folks went through a specific set of circumstances and
>have a different worldview that made hip hop possible in the
>first place. no other group of folks would have done it.

i agree w/ the idea & substance of this (ie Hip-Hop is non-existenct w/o Black American AND Diasporic cultural roots--which feels like a gross understatement by the way) but the blood that flowed in the veins of the creators of HIP-HOP culture was not solely African

>so... yes you can LISTEN and be influenced by hip hop

A LOT

but you
>are dealing with it on its most simplest of levels I.e. the
>actual product. you have not experienced the black American
>experience nor were you raised with what would consider a
>black worldview.


this is correct but in my experience most (by a lot) non-Black folks that engage the art, artists, if less frequently listeners, make a genuine attempt to engage (surprise) real life Black People

>ownership of culture means you have been through it.

what's the limit on this?

how many freestyle battles does a white guy have to rap in?

how perceptive & engaging of (shock) real like Black People does a white rap listener have to be to speak their mind on the music/culture?

>you can't understand hip hop the way a black person does
>because you haven't been dehumanized...

the issue isn't whether i have or not, but to what extent & of what nature...that's one reason white folks still relate to hip-hop (it's Universal as stated by many)

we all face levels of this as people but i make no claim ever that Black folks don't face a pernicious & unique variety

you haven't had
>generations go through slavery... you didn't populate housing
>projects in the south Bronx harlem or Bk. (not you per se...
>but a typical white american)

but this doesn't mean a white person can't competently engage the culture, fan or artist

>also...a plane is an invention.... culture evolves. too
>different to make analogies.

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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Starks dunked on Bulls
Member since Dec 07th 2011
12028 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 03:42 PM

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7. "He's out of line and trivializing the argument"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52927 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 05:15 PM

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9. "Macklemore > Minaj, French Montana, ASAP, etc"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Nobody black should ever say otherwise

If you have an issue with it, step to me

If you hate on Mack and accept the latter three, you're
an uncle tom who promotes genocide within the community

Period

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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