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Subject: "Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets" Previous topic | Next topic
Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 01:20 PM

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"Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets"


  

          

OK the captain obvious shit out the way
He does have Voodoo or mid 90s fame
Bilal doesn't have a 14 year hiatus check.

They both are of the Prince Sly and Family Stone lineage.

Love Surreal to me is better than this latest D album. Cmon music snobs.


http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2014/12/17/will-the-real-black-messiah-please-stand-up/

This blog sums up how I feel.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
d'anglelo was more accessible to kids raised on rap.
Dec 17th 2014
1
RE: d'anglelo was more accessible to kids raised on rap.
Dec 17th 2014
2
RE: d'anglelo was more accessible to kids raised on rap.
Dec 17th 2014
3
^^^Yup. Plus Bilal didn't capitalize on his return from hiatus like D' d...
Dec 17th 2014
4
RE: ^^^Yup. Plus Bilal didn't capitalize on his return from hiatus like ...
Dec 17th 2014
6
      ^^^Truth
Dec 17th 2014
32
I've heard that before so can I say persona
Dec 17th 2014
5
      it's not just the "persona" it's how his music SOUNDS that...
Dec 17th 2014
28
I love how your post...
Dec 17th 2014
7
Thanks man I'm just tryna see what people think
Dec 17th 2014
19
did you read the last paragraph of Payton's blog?
Dec 18th 2014
43
      RE: did you read the last paragraph of Payton's blog?
Dec 18th 2014
44
      he is a great player
Dec 18th 2014
45
           he would be right too
Dec 18th 2014
54
      yeah
Dec 18th 2014
48
      RE: did you read the last paragraph of Payton's blog?
Dec 18th 2014
56
           Musician Nicholas Payton. They're referring to this blog post *link*
Dec 19th 2014
77
he doesn't have the songs.
Dec 17th 2014
8
First born second?
Dec 17th 2014
17
      Yup.
Dec 17th 2014
29
i'm learning he is an acquired taste
Dec 17th 2014
9
his first album is dope
Dec 17th 2014
11
yup.
Dec 17th 2014
14
lol
Dec 17th 2014
23
That doesn't prove much, especially without a single.
Dec 18th 2014
61
I have heard this before
Dec 17th 2014
18
D basically founded his subgenre
Dec 17th 2014
10
I can see that
Dec 17th 2014
I can see that
Dec 17th 2014
20
RE: Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets
Dec 17th 2014
12
can we agree that vocally Bilal is better? Did you hear A Love Surreal
Dec 17th 2014
21
      Here's the thing though
Dec 17th 2014
38
      Gangstarr gotta song for this...
Dec 18th 2014
46
Airtight's Revenge is a masterpiece
Dec 17th 2014
13
there's been enough rumbling from Bilal and his fans (this post)
Dec 17th 2014
15
when he toured behind Love Surreal
Dec 17th 2014
16
I'm so mad at myself for literally LOL-ing @ &quot;what? nobody!?&quot;
Dec 18th 2014
65
I agree however when I listen to both of them clearly the Sly/Prince
Dec 17th 2014
25
Bilal is good, D'Angelo is great
Dec 17th 2014
22
Interesting
Dec 17th 2014
26
D'Angelo seemed like a cool nigga. Bilal seems like a weirdo.
Dec 17th 2014
24
Neither Bilal nor Saadiq are feminine what the heck are you talking abou...
Dec 23rd 2014
134
well, D'Angelo is just more original, unique & enjoyable IMO
Dec 17th 2014
27
They're two different artists who share the same influences
Dec 17th 2014
30
RE: They're two different artists who share the same influences
Dec 17th 2014
33
basically
Dec 17th 2014
35
Yup.
Dec 22nd 2014
108
Never heard Bilal play guitar...but
Dec 17th 2014
31
because he doesn't have an 'untitled' video
Dec 17th 2014
34
compared to D..... Bilal releases albums pretty regularly...
Dec 17th 2014
36
i love bilal
Dec 17th 2014
37
I think their influences are a big reason
Dec 18th 2014
39
D'Angelo Ain't Never Made a Song Like Bilal's "Butterfly"
Dec 18th 2014
40
Bilal's best is >>>>> D's best. Butterfly is the PERFECT example
Dec 23rd 2014
133
Bilal doesn't produce his records
Dec 18th 2014
41
and Kedar is a genius
Dec 18th 2014
42
yes he does. not always, but he does n/m
Dec 18th 2014
62
      you right
Dec 18th 2014
64
           Even on 1st Born Second
Dec 22nd 2014
112
                RE: Even on 1st Born Second
Dec 23rd 2014
145
If the untitled video never happened..
Dec 18th 2014
47
yikes.....but i kind of agree
Dec 18th 2014
50
that's not true....
Dec 18th 2014
51
bullshit.
Dec 18th 2014
58
Er, No. Brown Sugar (the single) was bigger than
Dec 22nd 2014
109
yea it hurt to see Bilal singing back up for Kendrick Lamar
Dec 18th 2014
49
As a singer, this is 100% true
Dec 18th 2014
60
gt(entire)foh w/ this d'angelo is better shit - go listen to all matter,...
Dec 18th 2014
52
gt(entire)foh w/ this d'angelo is better shit - go listen to all matter,...
Dec 18th 2014
53
i feel like "levels"
Dec 18th 2014
55
I'm saying this guy is making music I have never heard before
Dec 18th 2014
57
i love bilal
Dec 18th 2014
59
I guess we have to...
Dec 18th 2014
63
Won't even get into comparison mode, their foci are too different;
Dec 18th 2014
66
He is the Joi of male neo soul artists.
Dec 19th 2014
67
If "Love for Sale" had been released properly, Bilal would be a supersta...
Dec 19th 2014
68
Love For Sale was golden !!! Interscope was wack for not putting it out.
Dec 19th 2014
72
Interscope should've rush released it after the leak.
Dec 19th 2014
75
post 6 + 32
Dec 21st 2014
90
White Turns To Grey=Anything in D's whole catalog
Dec 27th 2014
178
this post reminded me that i didn't buy
Dec 19th 2014
69
Would it change things if I said that it is rumored
Dec 19th 2014
70
no because you're not talking about the actual, yknow, music...
Dec 19th 2014
71
I'm gonna add Van Hunt to this convo...
Dec 19th 2014
73
he doesn't have the songs either.
Dec 19th 2014
74
I'll agree
Dec 19th 2014
78
He definitely does though...
Dec 22nd 2014
100
fuck van hunt.
Dec 19th 2014
76
RE: fuck van hunt.
Dec 20th 2014
81
get mad.
Dec 20th 2014
85
      RE: get mad.
Dec 21st 2014
89
           well, even Seal has fans.
Dec 22nd 2014
98
you surprise me!
Dec 23rd 2014
123
      well, i don't know, man.
Dec 23rd 2014
129
           he ain't for you.
Dec 23rd 2014
148
                oh, i have.
Dec 23rd 2014
151
I love him but...
Dec 20th 2014
79
      I hear Ya
Dec 20th 2014
83
      Soul Sista was produced by Saadiq as well
Dec 22nd 2014
113
      How is D'angelo any better of a singer than Van Hunt tho?
Dec 22nd 2014
101
           D'Angelo has a unique timbre to his voice.
Dec 22nd 2014
111
                Ok, so we agree D'angelo isn't a better singer than Van Hunt.
Dec 22nd 2014
115
                     im a fan of VH and I don't think he sings as well as D.
Dec 22nd 2014
118
                     yep.
Dec 22nd 2014
121
                     That just means I disagree with two of you, lol.
Dec 23rd 2014
125
                          yes, i mean live too.
Dec 23rd 2014
127
                          and that's okay, player!
Dec 23rd 2014
131
                               Perfectly okay.
Dec 23rd 2014
147
                     nah. it really isn't.
Dec 22nd 2014
120
                     RE: How Van messed up..:
Dec 23rd 2014
135
                          I actually agree with all of that. Just one thing that kinda bugs me...
Dec 23rd 2014
136
                               RE: I actually agree with all of that. Just one thing that kinda bugs m...
Dec 25th 2014
172
bilal is the better singer, by far. d is the better overall package.
Dec 20th 2014
80
People will gravitate to the first one rather than the second
Dec 20th 2014
82
Does Bilal play instruments?
Dec 20th 2014
84
why the fuck does that matter?
Dec 20th 2014
86
Nicholas Payton made some interesting points.
Dec 20th 2014
87
i agree that this album doesn't swing.
Dec 20th 2014
88
Payton decries Black Music being put in a box so he puts All Music...
Dec 21st 2014
92
      RE: Payton decries Black Music being put in a box so he puts All Music.....
Dec 22nd 2014
104
RE: Nicholas Payton made some interesting points.
Dec 21st 2014
93
meh. what a crock of shite.
Dec 23rd 2014
130
      Agreed...
Dec 23rd 2014
139
           fwiw he's on record decrying sampling & beatmaking as...
Dec 23rd 2014
141
                it's a sense of entitlement some jazz-musicians have...
Dec 23rd 2014
146
                     he writes like an elitist who wants to be a man of the people
Dec 24th 2014
156
1. untitled video (never underestimate good abs and a pretty face)
Dec 21st 2014
91
Interesting point
Dec 21st 2014
96
d'angelo had the hype and the songs
Dec 21st 2014
94
Bilal is the superior singer
Dec 21st 2014
95
I'm surprised Martin Luther doesn't get as much attention as Bilal
Dec 22nd 2014
97
Are there any Bilal songs that coulda/shoulda been HITS-hits?
Dec 22nd 2014
99
He has songs that could warrant some radio play. But hits? Nope.
Dec 22nd 2014
102
Laugh at me but You're All I Need
Dec 22nd 2014
114
This post is fucking hilarious...Bilal fans are delusional
Dec 22nd 2014
103
The only real answer is that Bilal is an alternative artist.
Dec 22nd 2014
105
so D'Angelo doesn't "really create"?
Dec 22nd 2014
107
Most of his work is VERY derivative...
Dec 22nd 2014
110
      i can't comrehend how someone w/ as unique an artistic voice/sound...
Dec 22nd 2014
117
      can you name some similar songs/albums?
Dec 22nd 2014
119
           RE: can you name some similar songs/albums?
Dec 23rd 2014
128
                lol
Dec 23rd 2014
137
                Here I am being completely respectful to everybody in this thread...
Dec 23rd 2014
153
                     that's one hurt pussy there sweetheart
Dec 24th 2014
155
                          Jump off a bridge with your depressed, bipolar ass.
Dec 24th 2014
157
                               let's take a break here & review the last few posts
Dec 24th 2014
165
                                    Let's not, because you started in with the insults and bullshit.
Dec 24th 2014
166
                                         merry solstice to you & yours!
Dec 25th 2014
170
                hmmm...
Dec 23rd 2014
138
                     Lol, I just don't worship at the altar of D'angelo, man. He's good and ...
Dec 24th 2014
154
                     i still want some specifics
Dec 27th 2014
180
                     AARON HALL tho!!!!!
Dec 25th 2014
169
RE: The only real answer is that Bilal is an alternative artist.
Dec 23rd 2014
126
He is weird though
Dec 23rd 2014
142
RE: The only real answer is that Bilal is an alternative artist.
Dec 24th 2014
158
      tutu....
Dec 25th 2014
174
      Sounds like something from Janelle Monae's Archandroid...
Dec 25th 2014
175
           respectfully disagree
Dec 25th 2014
176
                And again, that's perfectly ok.
Dec 26th 2014
177
      NO I DIDN'T!!!
Dec 27th 2014
179
agreed
Dec 24th 2014
167
Three main things:
Dec 22nd 2014
106
Shit!!!!
Dec 23rd 2014
122
      RE: Shit!!!!
Dec 23rd 2014
124
           even first born second could have been much better.
Dec 23rd 2014
132
An aside: I appreciate Payton's voice even when I disagree w/ him
Dec 22nd 2014
116
And BTW, Bilal?
Dec 23rd 2014
140
D'angelo is easier to get into
Dec 23rd 2014
143
Word
Dec 24th 2014
159
RE: Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets
Dec 23rd 2014
144
RE: Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets
Dec 23rd 2014
149
      RE: Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets
Dec 23rd 2014
150
      lmao, wow
Dec 23rd 2014
152
      This is even funnier than it was the first time...
Dec 24th 2014
160
      So...
Dec 24th 2014
161
      Nobody other than a handful of people on this board remember that shit
Dec 24th 2014
162
      they're also the only people who know bilal.
Dec 24th 2014
164
      LOL! I remember trying to put my cousin onto Bilal
Dec 24th 2014
163
      LOL!
Dec 25th 2014
173
      lol... his unorthodox live performances was one of the things
Dec 24th 2014
168
Also, D'angelo doesn't make anything I consider to be terrible or wtf
Dec 25th 2014
171
D Angelo took his shirt off. Case closed.
Dec 27th 2014
181
please direct me to the Bilal album as good as Brown Sugar
Dec 27th 2014
182
After hearing him numerous times in person before hearing an album
Dec 31st 2014
183
RE: Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets
Dec 31st 2014
184
Bilal is the Male "Amel Larrieux"-Bilal's Opera Training Makes Him Amazi...
Jan 01st 2015
185
RE: Bilal is the Male "Amel Larrieux"-Bilal's Opera Training Makes Him A...
Jan 01st 2015
186
RE: Bilal is the Male "Amel Larrieux"-Bilal's Opera Training Makes Him A...
Jan 03rd 2015
189
Thank you few people are willing to admit this
Jan 01st 2015
187
Amel doesn't have the body of work Bilal has...
Jan 01st 2015
188

Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 01:49 PM

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1. "d'anglelo was more accessible to kids raised on rap. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

d'anglelo was sexier.

d'anglelo was seen as a bandleader and had a mythology
of the guy that could save "real music" from the evils of hip hop.

he just seems cooler.
bilal's weirdness is off putting, d'anglelo's weirdness is almost charming.




  

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spidey
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Wed Dec-17-14 02:08 PM

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2. "RE: d'anglelo was more accessible to kids raised on rap. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

...nail on the head...personally, I respect and dig both these brothers work...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16576 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 02:13 PM

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3. "RE: d'anglelo was more accessible to kids raised on rap. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

>bilal's weirdness is off putting, d'anglelo's weirdness is
>almost charming.
>
says it all right there. I've heard too many people say that Bilal was too weird when they saw him live. I dig and respect both artist. D being the better musician and Bilal being the better singer IMO. I'm not even sure Bilal plays any instruments.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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self_ish
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Wed Dec-17-14 02:17 PM

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4. "^^^Yup. Plus Bilal didn't capitalize on his return from hiatus like D' d..."
In response to Reply # 1


          

Bilal's sophomore album came NINE years after his debut. So a lot of people were anticipating his re-emergence. But his album was released on an indie; it had a distinctly electronic feel, and his vocal approach was noticably different. He sounded more subdued, and the screaming that was a bit of a calling card was mostly absent. Plus there weren't really any songs on Airtights Revenge that, for the neo-soul crowd (which remained his core audience despite his rejection of the "genre"), could compare to Soul Sista or Sometimes. I was going to shows when Bilal was performing the Love For Sale stuff and after Airtight's Revenge was released, and the songs that still got the biggest response, and still do to this day, are those two from his debut.

Vocally, he can do just about anything D'Angelo can, and better. But his songs don't seem to resonate with his own audience as much as D's do. I'm not even sure he knows who his audience is at this point, or what they want from him. Or even cares. I think he really needs an executive producer, and/or to lock himself in with say Robert Glasper, Shafiq, Flying Lotus and Thundercatt. Let them handle the music, get some assistance with the writing, and allow Bilal to just focus on showcasing the gift that makes him one of the greatest treasures in all of contemporary music...his voice.


>d'anglelo was sexier.
>
>d'anglelo was seen as a bandleader and had a mythology
>of the guy that could save "real music" from the evils of hip
>hop.
>
>he just seems cooler.
>bilal's weirdness is off putting, d'anglelo's weirdness is
>almost charming.
>
>
>
>
>

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16576 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 02:33 PM

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6. "RE: ^^^Yup. Plus Bilal didn't capitalize on his return from hiatus like ..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Imagine if Love For Sale would have come out? Damn!

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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bc
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Wed Dec-17-14 08:08 PM

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32. "^^^Truth"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>Imagine if Love For Sale would have come out? Damn!

Some may see this as revisionism but if his label had just put it out immediately I think his career is really different.

It's amazing to see how the industry response to leaking has evolved. Look at how different RTJ's reaction to their leak was.

respect,
bc

"my old boy from the Point but I'm from Southwest..."

"Are you really ready to carry some weight?,
Are you ready to design your fate?" -Kelvin Mercer

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 02:18 PM

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5. "I've heard that before so can I say persona"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

is more important or equal to musical skill. Bilal is not known as a musician but voice wise to me he is better than D.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 06:25 PM

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28. "it's not just the "persona" it's how his music SOUNDS that..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

makes Rap heads relate

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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thebigfunk
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Wed Dec-17-14 03:15 PM

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7. "I love how your post..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

assumes you know the *real* reason people are going crazy over the Black Messiah --- not bc people actually, you know, like it, but because they "need something to believe in." Great armchair psychoanalysis!

But to your point, Bilal's albums have never come off as totalities to me... I've usually enjoyed them, but they generally feel like collections of tracks rather than fully-conceived projects. More importantly (imo) is that while dude is undoubtedly creative, his efforts at blurring or transcending genres can often feel a bit too forced, even contrived. Sort of a gap between his vision (which always appears radical in every respect) and execution (which never does his vision justice). He has a masterpiece in him, waiting to be made... but I haven't heard it yet.

I don't like comparing artistic output - the above comments aren't meant as a compare/contrast, more general thoughts on why Bilal has never reached *that* level of acclaim (from me anyway). Always appreciate his work, but he's never made my top 10 for any given year, let alone for any longer stretch of time... but hey, different strokes.

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 05:32 PM

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19. "Thanks man I'm just tryna see what people think"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

musical juxtaposition.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 07:49 AM

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43. "did you read the last paragraph of Payton's blog?"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

he dumped a whole container of Morton's on his head & went to work deflecting his issues onto people who like the album

it was incredible

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your ERA never low enough

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2729 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 08:01 AM

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44. "RE: did you read the last paragraph of Payton's blog?"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>he dumped a whole container of Morton's on his head & went to
>work deflecting his issues onto people who like the album
>
>it was incredible

that made me laugh....

because homey did go to town. the drummming doesnt come off stiff at all to me. and isnt his rock criticism off base?? the whole album screams blues, jazz, hip hop and just black music in general.

homey (payton) is a damn fine jazz player though

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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phlipout
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Thu Dec-18-14 08:33 AM

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45. "he is a great player"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

but he'd prolly take issue with you calling him a "jazz" player lol #BAM

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
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Thu Dec-18-14 02:58 PM

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54. "he would be right too"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

#oldhabitsdiehard

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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thebigfunk
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Thu Dec-18-14 12:07 PM

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48. "yeah"
In response to Reply # 43


          

of all the shit I dislike in music discussions, assumptions (esp. overly judgmental/negative assumptions) about why people like something that the commentator does not like are my least favorite...

They generally rely on sweeping characterizations of listeners that often have little evidence to back up.

Meanwhile, we could be talking about... you know, music.

I get where OP is coming from re: the Bilal/D'Angelo contrast, but to write off an album days after its release and assume that your opinion is the only worthwhile opinion - which is what you do when you write off folks who enjoy a given record so absolutely - shit's a joke (and is intellectually lazy, I might add).


-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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fire
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Thu Dec-18-14 04:33 PM

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56. "RE: did you read the last paragraph of Payton's blog?"
In response to Reply # 43


          

who's payton?

________________________________________
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self_ish
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Fri Dec-19-14 05:59 PM

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77. "Musician Nicholas Payton. They're referring to this blog post *link*"
In response to Reply # 56


          

http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2014/12/17/will-the-real-black-messiah-please-stand-up/


>who's payton?
>


......................................

https://soundcloud.com/jasper_brown

http://jasperbrown.bandcamp.com/

  

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SoWhat
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154163 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 03:25 PM

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8. "he doesn't have the songs."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he hasn't yet come up w/anything as compelling and accessible as 'Brown Sugar' or 'Lady'.

and he never made a video like 'Untitled'.

plus he's not as handsome in the face.

fuck you.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Wed Dec-17-14 05:26 PM

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17. "First born second?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

All that other stuff makes me ask the question is persona a greater factor than the music?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Dec-17-14 06:46 PM

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29. "Yup."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

I like that album. But nothing on it resonated with the masses to the degree of D's two big singles from his debut.

fuck you.

  

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SHAstayhighalways
Member since Sep 03rd 2014
3696 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 04:07 PM

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9. "i'm learning he is an acquired taste"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i literally love everything he puts out and i actually put him above d'angelo.
his first album was very hip hop so i don't get that criticism above
but i think had he done a 'untitled' type video early on he'd have more fans.
his voice is CRAZY to me (he's my favorite vocalist ever)
but i find the people who don't like him HATE his voice (which is just weird to me but whatevz)

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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guru0509
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Wed Dec-17-14 04:10 PM

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11. "his first album is dope"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

fast lane, reminisce, all that i am, 2nd child...

the beat for sally was ridiculous

this post is gonna make me pull out the album tonigh

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

  

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SoWhat
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14. "yup."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

i put a few of my friends on w/Love For Sale. after having heard it half of them were like mad that i had suggested they listen to it. the other half became complete stans for the guy.

fuck you.

  

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SHAstayhighalways
Member since Sep 03rd 2014
3696 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 06:00 PM

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23. "lol"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

i've had a similar experience when recommending dude to people.

www.royallegacy.org

For Real (Official Video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRoCPO8esE

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 05:53 PM

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61. "That doesn't prove much, especially without a single."
In response to Reply # 14


          

You probably didn't have to turn anyone on to Voodoo (which I suspect would yield simliar results).
Similar results could also come from "Black Messiah".
I do tend to think just about any r&b fan would dig the Brown Sugar album tho...
If anything, Bilal's biggest problem isn't Love For Sale: It's that he doesn't have a Brown Sugar album
with Brown Sugar marketing behind it

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Wed Dec-17-14 05:29 PM

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18. "I have heard this before"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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spirit
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10. "D basically founded his subgenre"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If Bilal came out before D'Angelo, their roles would be reversed.

It's not fair, but that's how it works in music.

Also, Bilal's debut was enjoyed by me and others, but generally got a mixed reception. I think if he went the all-Soulquarians route he would have been better off than going part-Dre, part-Soulquarians.

Also, D plays more instruments than Bilal and is looked at as a musical genius moreso, partially for that very reason.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Wed Dec-17-14 05:34 PM

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"I can see that"


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Wed Dec-17-14 05:34 PM

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20. "I can see that"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3842 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 04:14 PM

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12. "RE: Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Because neither he nor his music are as compelling. I so wanted them to be, though, because when I first heard his voice, on Soul Sista, I thought this is a dude who could keep D on his toes.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Wed Dec-17-14 05:44 PM

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21. "can we agree that vocally Bilal is better? Did you hear A Love Surreal"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Dec-17-14 10:34 PM

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38. "Here's the thing though"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Bilal is definitely a better vocalist. He just has more range and is just more talented.

BUT D'angelo has his own sound. He is in his own lane as far as how he uses his vocals.

Similar to Sade. There are better vocalists than Sade but her style is 100% her and there's something to be said about that.

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 08:37 AM

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46. "Gangstarr gotta song for this..."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

listening to this album i remembered that one reason i always loved his music is because of the originality & uniqueness of his vocalizing, no one sounds like him & everyone else, even great artists, sound pedestrian in comparison

IMO of course

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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mathmagic
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Wed Dec-17-14 05:03 PM

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13. "Airtight's Revenge is a masterpiece"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Bilal is fine in his own lane.

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
13927 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 05:15 PM

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15. "there's been enough rumbling from Bilal and his fans (this post)"
In response to Reply # 13
Wed Dec-17-14 05:16 PM by c71

  

          

to imply he is not fine in his lane.


There was the account a few months ago when Bilal asked the crowd at a concert "who has the new record?" and nobody in the club raised their hand.

Bilal was like "what? Nobody?"


I don't think he was fine with that.

  

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mathmagic
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Wed Dec-17-14 05:22 PM

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16. "when he toured behind Love Surreal "
In response to Reply # 15


          

everyone in the building, including myself, knew the record so I'm not sure about that. He's a confident artist with a great team behind him (his drummer/producer Steve Mckie is one of the best in the biz). He cool. He might not ever be as big as D and that's perfectly okay.

  

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rtoriq
Member since Aug 28th 2005
405 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 10:46 PM

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65. "I'm so mad at myself for literally LOL-ing @ &quot;what? nobody!?&quot;"
In response to Reply # 15
Thu Dec-18-14 10:48 PM by rtoriq

  

          

(However I bought both Airtight and Love Surreal....so I woulda made noise!)

------------------
reflect.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 06:17 PM

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25. "I agree however when I listen to both of them clearly the Sly/Prince"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

influence is prevalent kinda like Black Thought and Nas with G rap.

Thats why I made the comparison they have similar vocal tone so called sub genre.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4988 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 05:58 PM

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22. "Bilal is good, D'Angelo is great"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

No slight to him, thats just how I feel. The latest Bilal album was quality as well, but this new D'Angelo album is ridiculous.

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 06:21 PM

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26. "Interesting"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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micMajestic
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Wed Dec-17-14 06:08 PM

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24. "D'Angelo seemed like a cool nigga. Bilal seems like a weirdo."
In response to Reply # 0


          

So D'Angelo had a much larger audience off the rip, his look was more accessible, hyper masculine hip-hop heads didn't feel weird listening to him etc. I mean Raphael Saadiq "Instant Vintage" didn't pop either, those guys were too eccentric & feminine for the Black audience to latch on to at the time.
Kanye kicked in the door for the Black weirdos 10 years ago, but by that time most of Bilal's buzz was gone.

4 Better or 4 Worse

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 08:24 AM

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134. "Neither Bilal nor Saadiq are feminine what the heck are you talking abou..."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

You're basically proving people's point that without the Untitled video and Voodoo tour D wouldn't be half as popular as he is

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 06:24 PM

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27. "well, D'Angelo is just more original, unique & enjoyable IMO"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and fwiw, love Nicholas Payton's music & he makes good points but dude suffers from "doesn't know as much as he thinks he does" disease...i can relate but still

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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ramaj1
Member since May 20th 2008
1393 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 07:16 PM

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30. "They're two different artists who share the same influences"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Dec-17-14 07:17 PM by ramaj1

  

          

This post is pretty timely since I've revisited both of Bilal's last two releases in the wake of listening to Black Messiah almost non-stop.

Both Airtight and Love Surreal are near-masterpieces, in my book, so I disagree w/ anyone who questions Bilal's artistry or ability to create a cohesive and compelling full-length.

Both D and Bilal are brilliant musicians who come from a similar musical linage yet come with two very different approaches.

D is a musician to the bone while Bilal is more of a songwriter and vocal stylist. Apples and oranges.



  

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Vhien
Member since Aug 22nd 2009
149 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 08:42 PM

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33. "RE: They're two different artists who share the same influences"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>This post is pretty timely since I've revisited both of
>Bilal's last two releases in the wake of listening to Black
>Messiah almost non-stop.
>
>Both Airtight and Love Surreal are near-masterpieces, in my
>book, so I disagree w/ anyone who questions Bilal's artistry
>or ability to create a cohesive and compelling full-length.
>
>Both D and Bilal are brilliant musicians who come from a
>similar musical linage yet come with two very different
>approaches.
>
>D is a musician to the bone while Bilal is more of a
>songwriter and vocal stylist. Apples and oranges.
>
>
>
>
I agree with these sentiments . A Love Surreal is masterful. Bilal's GREATEST instrument is his voice. He bends it in fascinating ways and has a raw, human quality to his voice. I don't see the comparison between Bilal and D'Angelo at this stage. I think comparing A Love Surreal and Black Messiah serves as a good starting point--Bilal, I wholly consider a narrator with fascinating vocals and some killer narratives. Slipping Away is a fave and that record was easily my favorite that year. D'Angelo though, admittedly, his appeal lies more in his arrangements and harmonies. Also, Bilal is weird (which I love the shit out of) and his performances are more engaging by far.

  

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bills
Member since Feb 17th 2007
1197 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 08:50 PM

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35. "basically"
In response to Reply # 30


          

and for myself, as far as the accessibility piece, I'll add that I loved Bilal's kinda punkrockness back when he used to "overdo it"...

that said, I'm waiting til the weekend to hear Blk Messiah, but up to this point, Voodoo is THAT soul album in my life

  

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Chicane
Member since Feb 05th 2010
369 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 01:06 PM

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108. "Yup."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

__________________
Okayplaying since '00

  

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zionites16
Member since Oct 09th 2002
9836 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 07:17 PM

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31. "Never heard Bilal play guitar...but"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm guessing he is not as talented as D' from a musicians standpoint.

Not to mention D'angelo just sounds better to me. His voice and approach are much more appealing. Same genre, different league IMO.

//////

  

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fire
Charter member
111370 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 08:50 PM

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34. "because he doesn't have an 'untitled' video"
In response to Reply # 0


          

post over

oh and love for sale was never released commercially...biggest problem ever. album was ridiculous

________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Wed Dec-17-14 09:00 PM

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36. "compared to D..... Bilal releases albums pretty regularly..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so a guy going so long between releases is gonna generate more buzz when he does come out...and also during times when people are hoping/guessing when he's going to come out..

Bilal never really had the mainstream success that D had so it's a tough comparison really...

during the times since Voodoo though..Bilal has provided a lot people who are D fans some very enjoyable music....studio..and live...

for what it's worth..... I would still say Love for Sale is a better album than Black Messiah from start to finish...

but I'm just glad we both currently have them back making records...

hopefully.

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
10114 posts
Wed Dec-17-14 09:02 PM

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37. "i love bilal"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Dec-17-14 09:13 PM by Crash Bandacoot

          

bilal got something for that ass. i try to see him anytime that he
comes to dc. my favorite vocalist right now. overall greatness, i
would say d'angelo is 1a and bilal is 1b.

they should do a show together and throw in robert glasper
experiment or chris daddy dave band? sheeit, i would pay top
dollar for that.

  

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Luke Cage
Member since Dec 14th 2005
3047 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 03:13 AM

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39. "I think their influences are a big reason"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Bilal comes across as much more influenced by Jazz and D influenced by Soul/Funk/R&B. I know Bilal has some of those influences as well but there is a big Jazz element in his music to me and that generally doesn't translate to huge mainstream success even though he is by far the better singer and someone that can vocally hang with anyone. D'Angelo's influences are much more along the lines of what the core fan base of R&B digs...sexy, edgy but relatable. As others have pointed out Bilal is a lot more quirky than D who comes across like the cool ass homie who is really talented but more like your average brotha.

  

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J-Elijah
Member since Dec 09th 2009
260 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 05:05 AM

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40. "D'Angelo Ain't Never Made a Song Like Bilal's "Butterfly""
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Dec-18-14 05:35 AM by J-Elijah

          

"Butterfly"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Q9Altgoes

I don't care what nobody say. Bilal's "Butterfly" is so beautiful
it can bring tears to your eyes. Should have been nominated for a Grammy this year. I am much more a fan of Bilal than D'Angelo.
Bilal's Falsetto, Operatic voice is unmatched. It's the voice that makes the difference.

Where do all today's best falsettos rank (Bilal, Maxwell, Justin Timberlake, Pharrell, Robin Thicke, Miguel)?

Bilal's Best
"Home"
"White
"Reminisce"
"Sometimes"
"All Matter"
"White Turns to Grey"
"Make Me Over"
"Letter to Hermione"
"Never Be the Same"
"Butterfly"

Bilal even made Beyonce sound so good on that duet
"Everything I Do"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDt8obx6qIg


  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 08:22 AM

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133. "Bilal's best is >>>>> D's best. Butterfly is the PERFECT example"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

That song made my stomach hurt the first time I heard it it was so beautiful. His work with Robert Glasper (along with other artists) is SO underrated.

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2729 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 05:12 AM

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41. "Bilal doesn't produce his records"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Dec-18-14 05:13 AM by howardlloyd

  

          

and the 1st time we saw d'angelo was behind a piano in brown sugar.

he's been sold as a "serious" musician from day one and we bought it and have treated him as such

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2729 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 05:44 AM

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42. "and Kedar is a genius"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

lol

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10122 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 06:41 PM

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62. "yes he does. not always, but he does n/m"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2729 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 07:13 PM

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64. "you right"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

but his major label record he was largely absent from the production and he was totally overshadowed by dre, Dilla and quest...

so he didn't get those marketing dollars pushing him out there as an all in one wunderkid

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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Coco la chapelle
Member since Sep 17th 2006
3019 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 05:28 PM

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112. "Even on 1st Born Second "
In response to Reply # 64
Mon Dec-22-14 05:29 PM by Coco la chapelle

  

          

All the vocal melodies (wich for me is a part of producing a song) came from him, he also wrote Queen of Sanity, When Will You Call, Love Poems, Aaron comes helped him produce them but the ideas and songs came from him. Also Home and Second Child were also produced by Bilal.

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2729 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 06:30 PM

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145. "RE: Even on 1st Born Second "
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

smh...

none of those songs were marketed or had videos

saadiq got the credit on soul sista

dre got the credit on the joint with jadakiss

and the soulquarians had they joints....

i'm a guy thats heavy into credits and he wasn't sold that way sorry

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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TR808
Member since Oct 24th 2012
2012 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 11:10 AM

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47. "If the untitled video never happened.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

most of the world would not have known about D angelo...

he would be Eric benet...

BUT what Bilal should be doing right now is getting an album out right under this D album.. because he is just as good vocal wise

You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 12:33 PM

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50. "yikes.....but i kind of agree"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

brown sugar >>>>>> anything benet did
but it was almost 20 yrs ago
and imo voodoo is WAY overhyped. a lot of the songs sound the same to me
so i agree without the untitled pop culture impact i don't think brown sugar + voodoo on musical merits alone would have carried dangelo for over a decade

~~~~~~

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Thu Dec-18-14 12:37 PM

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51. "that's not true...."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

he got a huge buzz from Brown Sugar... he was being marketed as the 2nd coming...savior of soul ...BEFORE untitled....

I remember reading articles about all the celebs and stars that were checking for him on his small venue tour for brown sugar...including Prince..


he could have still been able to advance up to the large arena tour he did for Voodoo even without the untitled video just based on Brown sugar and the surrounding hype..birth of Neo soul thing...

  

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shockzilla
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Thu Dec-18-14 05:40 PM

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58. "bullshit. "
In response to Reply # 47


          

the world was crazy about brown sugar.

  

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Chicane
Member since Feb 05th 2010
369 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 01:10 PM

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109. "Er, No. Brown Sugar (the single) was bigger than"
In response to Reply # 47
Mon Dec-22-14 01:11 PM by Chicane

  

          

any record on the Voodoo album in terms of commercial and crossover success. I still have hardcore pop and mainstream R&B heads saying that that's the only D song they can listen to.

Bilal has never had a crossover song - that's his issue.

__________________
Okayplaying since '00

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 12:25 PM

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49. "yea it hurt to see Bilal singing back up for Kendrick Lamar"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

maybe it was the way he was positioned or the fact he had no light on him
but it seemed like bilal the back up singer instead of "featuring bilal"

i'm probably in the minority but bilal >>>>>>>>>>>>> dangelo imo

~~~~~~

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 05:49 PM

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60. "As a singer, this is 100% true"
In response to Reply # 49


          

>bilal >>>>>>>>>>>>> dangelo


But as complete artists, it's probably about neck and neck.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
6185 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 01:26 PM

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52. "gt(entire)foh w/ this d'angelo is better shit - go listen to all matter,..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


bothum are equally brilliant

bilal is just more left and a litmus test for weirdos, imo

i mean shit i know everybody in full blowjob mode post-black messiah, but cmon

bilal held it down in the interim

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

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2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
6185 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 01:26 PM

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53. "gt(entire)foh w/ this d'angelo is better shit - go listen to all matter,..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


bothum are equally brilliant

bilal is just more left and a litmus test for weirdos, imo

i mean shit i know everybody in full blowjob mode post-black messiah, but cmon

bilal held it down in the interim

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2729 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 03:01 PM

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55. "i feel like "levels""
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

is one of the greatest things ever committed to 0s and 1s

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 05:39 PM

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57. "I'm saying this guy is making music I have never heard before "
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

and to me that is a feat.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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shockzilla
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Thu Dec-18-14 05:41 PM

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59. "i love bilal"
In response to Reply # 53


          

dude is incredible - and he's amazing live.

he's not seeing d, though.

  

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jimaveli
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Thu Dec-18-14 07:01 PM

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63. "I guess we have to..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

JayZ vs Nas everything. I'll share: for my $, Blueprint was better than Stillmatic, but I liked the two albums. I hate those albums and the 'drama' because it turned cats who all liked rap music into Democrats and Republicans.

As for D'Lo and Bilal, I like em boaf. Lots even. I see Love For Sale as THE music tragedy of the last 15 years that I know about. Having that work be shelved is rough. White Turns to Grey is still insane and I listen to songs on that thing with some regularity. I agree with the stance that Love For Sale not coming out derailed what could've/should've/would've been a 'bigger' career. And Airtight being largely ignored is also sad. Or at least it 'felt' ignored. I caught hell trying to find someone outside of OKP to get with about that album. I remember using Flying to try to street team for it like I'm using Another Life and Really Love for James Riv...my bad, Black Messiah.

To answer the OP's question, momentum and/or being a part of an institution/movement is and will forever be important to how albums get treated. D'Angelo has the 2nd one (his mystique, 15, and being involved with the 2000-ish Soulquarian body of work before Break U Off sent D'Angelo away from Quest and into depressio...JUST KIDDING!).

His forever-but-maybe-never-coming 3rd album is probably THE album to release 'out of nowhere'. And they did it. And it is easily good enough to not ruin the ideas of what MOST folks 'imagined' the record was going to be. And the gap in time since Voodoo breathes life/momentum into Black Messiah that might not've been there if it would've come out in 2006 before the full 'okay, this isn't happening' feeling kicked in. Black Messiah is the 'Winnie Cooper letting Kevin Hit It' of albums for folks right now. And folks are happy about it, so superlatives are gonna get thrown around. It is fun. Let it be and then we (Bilal fans) can get back to street-teaming for Bilal.

Jimaveli

>OK the captain obvious shit out the way
>He does have Voodoo or mid 90s fame
>Bilal doesn't have a 14 year hiatus check.
>
>They both are of the Prince Sly and Family Stone lineage.
>
>Love Surreal to me is better than this latest D album. Cmon
>music snobs.
>
>
>http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2014/12/17/will-the-real-black-messiah-please-stand-up/
>
>This blog sums up how I feel.

  

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rtoriq
Member since Aug 28th 2005
405 posts
Thu Dec-18-14 10:56 PM

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66. "Won't even get into comparison mode, their foci are too different;"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

All I wanna say is Bilal teams up w/ Shafiq Husayn and makes ANYTHING like Levels....man....I can't even finish the sentence.


Levels is a song that just keeps getting better and better the more you hear it and the more you see it performed.
Have you all seen Levels live??

*Soooo mad I missed him in Nov*

------------------
reflect.

  

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Castro
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50725 posts
Fri Dec-19-14 02:44 AM

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67. "He is the Joi of male neo soul artists. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Joi's Amoeba Cleansing Syndrome imo stands up to Mama's Gun...and it was never released.

Joi was there from the beginning...yet she probably has more acclaim for being part of the Dungeon Family than for her solo work.

Erykah is everybody's funk queen...but what's fucking with Joi's version of "Lick"?

I think the other thing is that when he released Soul Sista, it sounded like a lot of things that were already out. We tend to focus on Brown Sugar....but "me and those dreamin' eyes" sounded like nothing else that was out....whereas "Soul Sista" 'sounds' like "Lady".

So Bilal's issue isn't the quality of his music, its a combination of stuff that wasn't released and the fact that D'Angelo was accorded the status of "first" or "trailblazer" when it comes to this genre...and Joi's fate was similar in relation to Analogue Girl...

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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caramelapplebttms
Member since Mar 09th 2004
3152 posts
Fri Dec-19-14 12:39 PM

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68. "If "Love for Sale" had been released properly, Bilal would be a supersta..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

THAT was the album that would have put Bilal at D'Angelo's level of lure and legend. I am a huge fan of both, and I like Bilal's recent work, but "Love for Sale" blew my mind. It actually made me okay with D's absence.

I could state the obvious about D vs. Bilal as a musician, but the fact that D plays instruments and produces his albums wouldn't make a difference to the general public.

  

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Silky1
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Fri Dec-19-14 04:18 PM

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72. "Love For Sale was golden !!! Interscope was wack for not putting it out."
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

>THAT was the album that would have put Bilal at D'Angelo's
>level of lure and legend. I am a huge fan of both, and I like
>Bilal's recent work, but "Love for Sale" blew my mind. It
>actually made me okay with D's absence.
>
>I could state the obvious about D vs. Bilal as a musician, but
>the fact that D plays instruments and produces his albums
>wouldn't make a difference to the general public.
>
>


silk.later Reunion radio with Old P. & Silk http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

"i'm talking about *Balls Deep*....In Love (c)Cleveland Jr.

He was cultivating a fine nigga farm (c)Goldmind.

R.I.P Jamie Hubley

  

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SoWhat
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Fri Dec-19-14 05:33 PM

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75. "Interscope should've rush released it after the leak."
In response to Reply # 72
Fri Dec-19-14 05:34 PM by SoWhat

  

          

instead the label sat on it for too long (trying to figure out a single?) and the leak spread further and wider. then the label shelved the project forever on the theory that the audience that would've paid for it had already copped it on bootleg for free. it was backassward.

fuck you.

  

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bc
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1183 posts
Sun Dec-21-14 12:16 PM

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90. "post 6 + 32"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          


respect,
bc

"my old boy from the Point but I'm from Southwest..."

"Are you really ready to carry some weight?,
Are you ready to design your fate?" -Kelvin Mercer

  

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adg87
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
5301 posts
Sat Dec-27-14 01:27 PM

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178. "White Turns To Grey=Anything in D's whole catalog"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

If that song don't put you on a "next level" vibe, I don't know what to tell you. I'm as much a D fan as anyone, but if I had to listen to one man's catalog for the rest of my life, Bilal's would be the answer, no question.

************************************************************

Nigga, if the shoe fits, then buy the matching purse!" Rass Kass

  

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cbk
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4535 posts
Fri Dec-19-14 12:43 PM

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69. "this post reminded me that i didn't buy"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Dec-19-14 12:45 PM by cbk

          

"airtight's revenge" and "a love surreal."

i don't know why, either. other stuff come out around the same time??

i was a HUGE bilal fan leading up to "1st born second." and when the album dropped, it was great. but i can see the criticism of it not having an overall theme, or being a cohesive piece of work. i remember bilal himself saying that the main theme was his musical "curiosity" and that was cool. but i wanted that curiosity to lend itself to something HUGE on the next LP. like some kinda masterpiece opus. unfortunately for me, "love for sale" wasn't that. it seemed timid. those moments on 1stBS when i was scared that his voice would explode at any minute weren't there. honestly, i can't really remember the album, and that's the problem. maybe i'll revisit.

in any regard, just musically speaking, that's why i think d'angelo gets more attention than bilal--bilal has not delivered on his promise...YET; HE STILL CAN!

meanwhile, d'angelo is batting 1.000 when it comes to delivering on his artistic promise.



Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Fri Dec-19-14 03:26 PM

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70. "Would it change things if I said that it is rumored "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Bilal had a fall out with a certain person at Interscope and is the reason why his career was stymied for a second?

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Fri Dec-19-14 04:11 PM

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71. "no because you're not talking about the actual, yknow, music..."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

at least Payton, for all his arrogance, IS (mostly)

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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revolution75
Member since May 07th 2003
3372 posts
Fri Dec-19-14 05:23 PM

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73. "I'm gonna add Van Hunt to this convo..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Popular should have been released!!

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

  

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SoWhat
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Fri Dec-19-14 05:32 PM

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74. "he doesn't have the songs either."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

i'm a fan and i see that homie doesn't have songs that'll grab the masses. he also doesn't have a video like 'Untitled'.

fuck you.

  

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revolution75
Member since May 07th 2003
3372 posts
Fri Dec-19-14 06:13 PM

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78. "I'll agree "
In response to Reply # 74
Fri Dec-19-14 06:18 PM by revolution75

  

          

There's the whole Untitled thing that seperates D from the rest as far as accessibility
Take that away and....

Now personally, I think there's no difference between any of them in regards to talent
Regardless if Bilal can play an instrument...he's on THAT level to me
Or if V doesnt have the IT factor...he's on THAT level
I'll add Meshell as well (but she has her issues as well)
They all have their strengths and weaknesses
And in another place and time, they would have been peers
But this day and age, it's not the case
Everyone's jockeying for their fav artist to be the next ____

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 05:34 AM

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100. "He definitely does though..."
In response to Reply # 74


          

"Man of the Year"
"What Can I Say (For Millicent)"
"The Thrill of This Love"
"What Were You Hoping For"
"Daredevil, Baby" (if Adele or Amy Winehouse dropped this, yall would swear it was the new baby jesus)
same goes for "Bits & Pieces" AND "There's Never A G'time To Say G'bye"
"Mean Sleep"
"Who Will Love Me In Winter"


Dude has mad songs that should have been POP hits. Something about the way he's
marketed (or NOT marketed) or something.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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shockzilla
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37800 posts
Fri Dec-19-14 05:42 PM

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76. "fuck van hunt."
In response to Reply # 73


          

he's not close to being on bilal's level, let alone d'angelo's.

  

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iHoller
Member since Aug 06th 2014
52 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 02:15 PM

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81. "RE: fuck van hunt."
In response to Reply # 76


          

>he's not close to being on bilal's level, let alone
>d'angelo's.

i was going to get really mad about your post, and then i read the name. shockzilla.

touche.

  

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shockzilla
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Sat Dec-20-14 06:31 PM

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85. "get mad."
In response to Reply # 81


          

i'm not a shock poster or a troll.

i say that sincerely.

van hunt exists because d'angelo left a vacuum.

i am decidedly not a fan. he's a shadow of his influences and seemingly has no identity of his own. he's got nothing on d'lo or bilal.

he's like a second-rate lenny kravitz. imagine that.

  

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iHoller
Member since Aug 06th 2014
52 posts
Sun Dec-21-14 03:35 AM

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89. "RE: get mad."
In response to Reply # 85
Sun Dec-21-14 03:36 AM by iHoller

          

oh well the whole "fuck van hunt" part is pretty extreme. and it's a lot to say just because you're not a fan. but to say he has nothing on "d'lo or bilal..." while being a matter of tastes and music being "subjective" is...nonsenselessness

a second-rate lenny kravitz definitely doesn't fit the bill either. he's probably the single most slept on artist of the 2000's.

i watched one of his performances on youtube, and it was kind of like an open mic, and he was playing. his fans sung along with him. and they sung every word. no big deal right. wrong.

they sung every word, and they harmonized with him, not just sang along, they harmonized. i've literally never seen or heard anything like it. that's quite an accomplishment and a testament to his artistry.

to sing and play your songs to fans who are there because they genuinely love your music. and to have them not only sing back, but to literally harmonize with you as you sing; is rare and not to be understated in the current disposable music climate.

he's the real deal. and he's been consistently giving us good music, at least i know i'm never disappointed when i hear his records. he's got range, he can write, and play all that stuff with anyone i've ever heard. but real recognize real...

seriious question, do you make music?

  

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shockzilla
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Mon Dec-22-14 03:07 AM

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98. "well, even Seal has fans."
In response to Reply # 89


          

perhaps I was overly harsh, but this is The Lesson and hyperbole is shorthand.

Serious question, are you Van Hunt?

  

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thebigfunk
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10457 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 06:54 AM

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123. "you surprise me!"
In response to Reply # 76


          

I'm not a VH stan or anything, but your writing him off here like a "second-rate LK" is... damn. Usually get where you're coming from.

Dude is *way* more talented than I think you're giving him credit for... I get the arguments about being derivative (and I know that's where the LK connection is made), but those elements have (I think) weakened and weakened over each album. You can hear him starting to come into his own on "On the Jungle Floor" (which I think is a pretty sharp album, albeit a bit too long), and then striking far out into some rather progressive territory on "Popular" (which I didn't like a whole lot but appreciated for its more experimental qualities).

If anything, I would say he's underrated as a writer. I'd give him a second chance (and def stop comparing him to LK, whose paradox of talent/execution is on a whole other plane...)

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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shockzilla
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37800 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 08:15 AM

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129. "well, i don't know, man."
In response to Reply # 123


          

i've tried. i really have. and perhaps i'm getting a little mistermaxxx-ish OTT in my 'hate'.

and a bunch of posters whose opinions i respect have tried to put me onto him but his music always leaves me cold.

sowhat posted some van hunt 'jams' in another thread just recently and.. nothing. it's not like i don't WANT to like a new soul guy, particularly with dude's approach.

his music is just 'eh' to me.

i guess i don't know what i'm missing that y'all are hearing, but i'd rather listen to his influences than his music any day - and i don't get that with d or bilal.

  

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SoWhat
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154163 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 07:42 PM

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148. "he ain't for you."
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

plenty ppl around here whose taste i generally respect dig acts i just don't dig.

it's life.

we like VH and you don't. it's cool.

stop trying.

fuck you.

  

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shockzilla
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Tue Dec-23-14 09:17 PM

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151. "oh, i have."
In response to Reply # 148


          

after i listened to those songs you posted, i again realised he's just not for me.

and that's okay.

  

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jimaveli
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6586 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 12:10 PM

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79. "I love him but..."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

>Popular should have been released!!

Van probably doesn't have the voice to be in on this convo. He has the intricate/dope writing, a little of the 'what did you just say', and a general punk funk that I'm down with. I'll argue that the man has at least a small mountain of really good songs. I revisit his work often. And if he comes out with something, I buy it ASAP. But even I admit that at least some of his songs would be better if he was a 'better singer'. Still, I'm all for any argument involving On The Jungle Floor being more criminally ignored than anything D or Bilal put out. It is almost all slamming. I'd love it if some artist with a bigger profile who loves him showed up NOW and redid SEVERAL songs from it and 'made' folks listen to them. To me, Van might be a much better Mayer Hawthorne, a dope music-lover artist type of cat who should probably be feeding his work through a 'better singer' who could trick more folks into listening at a time. I'm going to be sad when Tuxedo drops and 'Get You Home' doesn't somehow take over the earth. It is no Another Life, but c'mon..what do people want!?

Hunt Live: I had a great time when I finally went and saw Hunt a few years ago. He didn't touch Popular sadly, but he did a 5+ minute jam version of Ohio Players 'Ecstasy' (think the 'Love will never do without you' part repeatedly) as a transition between two of his songs that blew me all the way away and damn near ruined me for the rest of the show. I'd pay for that immediately if it became available.

Saadiq:

I'd rather add Raphael Saadiq in Hunt's place if anyone, but it could argued that Ray 'turned out better' as it relates to having a better overall 'career' as an active singer and producer..especially if you add the 3T stuff. But his highs probably aren't as high as either Bilal or D'Lo and he's certainly lacking the mystique and squirrelliness of Bilal, D'Lo, or even Van. He's also missing much of the Prince and is instead far more in your face with his love for hip hop.

Saadiq's Slave-ish 'jam first then just say something that at least kinda fits the song' style of lyrics probably cut him short more with folks than anything else. But with his voice, he sounds so good even if he's saying the silliest stuff sometimes.

I remember being a HEAVY Instant Vintage person. Body Parts...shiiiid. Uptown is the first non-BM song I've listened to in almost a week. Something super random made me think about him saying 'I'm leaving this tooowwwwnn' and I knew I had to do it AND come here and ramble about him. And As Ray Ray..talk about slept on. This One!? He went so Arrington on that and so many other jams, but I loved it. Music I tell you...it is such a big part of who I am.

Jimaveli: "Why do you...why do you..ever get out of beeeed, yeah!"

  

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revolution75
Member since May 07th 2003
3372 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 05:56 PM

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83. "I hear Ya "
In response to Reply # 79
Sat Dec-20-14 05:58 PM by revolution75

  

          

Van has his weaknesses...he just doesnt have that IT factor

But mr archer and Bilal have weaknesses as well..

Not saying one is better than the other

Me personally, I see them on the same level

Now saadiq? Trumps all of them imo

Lady was Saadiq

Untitled and The Line was Saadiq...Nuff said!!

Bottom line for me is that there's room for everyone

That was the problem with the neo soul movement

It was always this person vs that person


Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

  

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Coco la chapelle
Member since Sep 17th 2006
3019 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 05:38 PM

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113. "Soul Sista was produced by Saadiq as well"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

But this song did well also because of the vocals

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 05:44 AM

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101. "How is D'angelo any better of a singer than Van Hunt tho?"
In response to Reply # 79


          

This must be bizarro world, lol. Van Hunt can do EVERYTHING D'angelo can do vocally,
AND he has a stronger voice.

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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shockzilla
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Mon Dec-22-14 05:23 PM

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111. "D'Angelo has a unique timbre to his voice."
In response to Reply # 101


          

Van Hunt sounds common.

As for 'this must be bizarro world'?

LOL. um, no. you're tripping.

Or you truly come from another world where Van Hunt is more highly regarded than D'Angelo.

One of those two.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Mon Dec-22-14 05:56 PM

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115. "Ok, so we agree D'angelo isn't a better singer than Van Hunt."
In response to Reply # 111


          

D'angelo does have unique "back-of-the-throat" singing style tho.
Can't deny that.
So what jimaveli means is that his songs might be more appealing if he was "more unique" singer.
I honestly don't think that's the case at all, because there's Katy Perry whose voice
is EXTREMELY "normal" AND has mediocre songs. There are plenty artists who've
fallen into this category for years now.
Your Van Hunt hate is extreme and irrational tho, so I don't even now why I'd continue here.

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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SoWhat
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Mon Dec-22-14 06:28 PM

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118. "im a fan of VH and I don't think he sings as well as D."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

V be missing notes and shit. He's off key at times. And his voice isn't as powerful as D's. Between the 2 I'd much rather hear D singing.

fuck you.

  

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shockzilla
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Mon Dec-22-14 11:46 PM

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121. "yep."
In response to Reply # 118


          

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 07:08 AM

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125. "That just means I disagree with two of you, lol."
In response to Reply # 118


          

>V be missing notes and shit. He's off key at times.

You mean live? I haven't seen that many live performances of his, but when I do,
I just wish he'd sing more in his powerful voice than the Curtis Mayfield whisper, because
he does really have a powerful voice when he sings out.

>And his voice isn't as powerful as D's.


Gonna have to just straight up disagree there.



>Between the 2 I'd much rather
>hear D singing.

That's cool. Doesn't have anything to do with who's the better singer tho.





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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Dec-23-14 07:26 AM

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127. "yes, i mean live too."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

>You mean live? I haven't seen that many live performances of
>his, but when I do,
>I just wish he'd sing more in his powerful voice than the
>Curtis Mayfield whisper, because
>he does really have a powerful voice when he sings out.

his voice is iffy, IMO.

>>And his voice isn't as powerful as D's.
>
>
>Gonna have to just straight up disagree there.
>
>
>
>>Between the 2 I'd much rather
>>hear D singing.
>
>That's cool. Doesn't have anything to do with who's the
>better singer tho.

it does. and D is the better singer. no doubt.

>
>
>
>

fuck you.

  

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shockzilla
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Tue Dec-23-14 08:17 AM

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131. "and that's okay, player!"
In response to Reply # 125


          

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Tue Dec-23-14 07:31 PM

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147. "Perfectly okay."
In response to Reply # 131


          

~
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~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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shockzilla
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Mon Dec-22-14 11:45 PM

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120. "nah. it really isn't."
In response to Reply # 115


          

and no, i don't agree with your contention at all.

van hunt has his own lane and clearly has fans and that's cool

but he's not on d's level by any conceivable measure.

to claim that he is is straight up delusional.

  

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jimaveli
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Tue Dec-23-14 08:57 AM

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135. "RE: How Van messed up..:"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

>D'angelo does have unique "back-of-the-throat" singing style
>tho.
>Can't deny that.
>So what jimaveli means is that his songs might be more
>appealing if he was "more unique" singer.
>I honestly don't think that's the case at all, because there's
>Katy Perry whose voice
>is EXTREMELY "normal" AND has mediocre songs. There are
>plenty artists who've
>fallen into this category for years now.
>Your Van Hunt hate is extreme and irrational tho, so I don't
>even now why I'd continue here.

Van has easily likeable and jammable songs. Is that an argument? Whatever. Regardless, he lacked all of the good bullshit you need. Aka he was a hard sell, he had horrible timing, and things went wrong. Or look at it this way, all he has is songs. And that ain't enough sadly...

Katy Perry is a top-heavy and reasonably pretty white woman. And she showed up singing to Kelly clarkson's audience about kissing broads. That opens more folks up to her songs far more than an old-looking black dude with punk funk leanings and semi-tricky/indirect writing. And you know, labels can put more money down when they think a fine chick with a few catchy songs and even catchier outfits can help them get rich. D'Angelo's first album, the bs Neo soul label, and him hittin the gym...same thing. He had all of that AND Questo.

Van Hunt was judged as a squirrelly Maxwell + Lenny Kravitz without the over the top cool or any of the 'chicks dig him". He did what he could with stuff like Attention and Precious, but folks didn't roll with it. Aka 'just some songs'. He's one of the artists that let me know I was listening harder and to more stuff than the average person.

And good lord, sliding him into the Neo soul bucket clearly didn't help either. By that time, the Neo soul label had so much baggage anyway. Obviously it is now clear that quasi-righteous folks who don't comb their hair aren't a reliable or large enough audience to base a career on trying to appease. They'll leave your ass hanging for the next 'it' soulman and then you're stuck trying to make a hit for folks you hated on because you thought they had your back. Then them cockroaches will fall up into dancemania without you and leave you on the couch watching them dance with Tina. Aka they bought the popular stuff that they tricked you into not making. Beyonce and nem...

Maybe we also missed the part where Stevie and Marvin were cooing out copycat hits and covers for years before rebelling and doing their own things. Folks thought they could skip that part but the risk is still high.

The first album, they lied about Van's age, had him imaged as some neosoul pimp Curtis Mayfield, etc. They also did what they could to make him into a 'this dude wrote songs that you already like, so now you gotta like these' artist. Penny with a hole in it, y'all! This guy wrote that!

Van is a damn good song-writer who probably made a mistake by continuing to show up with only himself as a vessel to get his songs out and over. I dig Rahsaan Patterson, but he ain't the vessel to get more folks into your sounds/songs/work. Even a highly questionable artist like Terius Nash has a slice of an audience still because he fed songs to visible stars who had what he doesn't. Aka he positioned himself in a lane as a dude who could 'for the right price make yo shit tighter'. Then he slides in the back door with his own stuff. And when they try to stop him, he hollers 'I wrote umbrella''.

As an artist or even a known contributor, Van Hunt doesn't have an Umbrella. Or an Untitled. Or a Soul Sista. Just A Penny With a Hole in it. I mean that literally and not.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 09:43 AM

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136. "I actually agree with all of that. Just one thing that kinda bugs me..."
In response to Reply # 135


          

>Van has easily likeable and jammable songs. Is that an argument?

It's not an argument, at all for me, and that leads me to the next point...

>Or look at it this way, all he has is songs. And that ain't enough sadly...


I remember reading an interview with Van Hunt somewhere, and he talked about
being in the basement, working on some music. He runs up the stairs excited about
what he's been working on, and Master P is playing on BET on the TV up stairs.
He realizes this is where popular music is at the time and it takes all the steam
out of him for the time being, and he just gets depressed, because he feels like
he'll never be able to fit in with that. One could say he shouldn't be so easily discouraged,
but that isn't the point here.
What bugs me about it all is that we're here on a sort of site that champions the
unheard voices in music, and we still have the biggest discussions about the artists
who had the most corporate money behind them either now or at some time in the past.
(there is the occasional exception, but it's rare).
I guess it just bugs me that there doesn't really seem to be any community where
the music truly matters more than "all the other stuff".
Don't mind me... just wanted to get that off my chest. I agree with everything you said tho.



>Katy Perry is a top-heavy and reasonably pretty white woman.
>And she showed up singing to Kelly clarkson's audience about
>kissing broads. That opens more folks up to her songs far more
>than an old-looking black dude with punk funk leanings and
>semi-tricky/indirect writing. And you know, labels can put
>more money down when they think a fine chick with a few catchy
>songs and even catchier outfits can help them get rich.
>D'Angelo's first album, the bs Neo soul label, and him hittin
>the gym...same thing. He had all of that AND Questo.
>
>Van Hunt was judged as a squirrelly Maxwell + Lenny Kravitz
>without the over the top cool or any of the 'chicks dig him".
>He did what he could with stuff like Attention and Precious,
>but folks didn't roll with it. Aka 'just some songs'. He's one
>of the artists that let me know I was listening harder and to
>more stuff than the average person.
>
>And good lord, sliding him into the Neo soul bucket clearly
>didn't help either. By that time, the Neo soul label had so
>much baggage anyway. Obviously it is now clear that
>quasi-righteous folks who don't comb their hair aren't a
>reliable or large enough audience to base a career on trying
>to appease. They'll leave your ass hanging for the next 'it'
>soulman and then you're stuck trying to make a hit for folks
>you hated on because you thought they had your back. Then them
>cockroaches will fall up into dancemania without you and leave
>you on the couch watching them dance with Tina. Aka they
>bought the popular stuff that they tricked you into not
>making. Beyonce and nem...
>
>Maybe we also missed the part where Stevie and Marvin were
>cooing out copycat hits and covers for years before rebelling
>and doing their own things. Folks thought they could skip that
>part but the risk is still high.
>
>The first album, they lied about Van's age, had him imaged as
>some neosoul pimp Curtis Mayfield, etc. They also did what
>they could to make him into a 'this dude wrote songs that you
>already like, so now you gotta like these' artist. Penny with
>a hole in it, y'all! This guy wrote that!
>
>Van is a damn good song-writer who probably made a mistake by
>continuing to show up with only himself as a vessel to get his
>songs out and over. I dig Rahsaan Patterson, but he ain't the
>vessel to get more folks into your sounds/songs/work. Even a
>highly questionable artist like Terius Nash has a slice of an
>audience still because he fed songs to visible stars who had
>what he doesn't. Aka he positioned himself in a lane as a dude
>who could 'for the right price make yo shit tighter'. Then he
>slides in the back door with his own stuff. And when they try
>to stop him, he hollers 'I wrote umbrella''.
>
>As an artist or even a known contributor, Van Hunt doesn't
>have an Umbrella. Or an Untitled. Or a Soul Sista. Just A
>Penny With a Hole in it. I mean that literally and not.

~
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~
~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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jimaveli
Charter member
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Thu Dec-25-14 12:48 PM

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172. "RE: I actually agree with all of that. Just one thing that kinda bugs m..."
In response to Reply # 136
Thu Dec-25-14 12:51 PM by jimaveli

  

          

I get what you're saying. But OKP is about it and it is still great even though it is and never was the 'perfect' place to discuss music. I'm glad it still exists after all these years.

And now, there's just too much flexibility and options music-wise. So, it is damn near impossible to get 'everyone' listening to the same thing at once with 'the same ears'.

Black Messiah is the Contra code of music movements. D'Angelo literally almost died after dropping Voodoo, had 15 years of emotions surrounding his forever-pending return to album form, and he had Questo being the best street team ever for him since he felt many of the same emotions as the fans who just wanted this mystical album to exist. And the brutal updates of 'almost done' or 'I'm trying to make him just put it out' or 'maaaann..this dude crazy'...awww man...

Also, everyone's life is holding so much information at a time now. And there's only so much space for music..even for music-loving folks like us. And even so-called 'music nerds' are nerdy about different things at different times and at different 'levels'. And some people never truly recover from what I call 'the snob period' where they think they're too good/busy/valuable to listen to anything that isn't at least almost perfect. Because Innervisions is perfect! I Want You is perfect! *Insert P-Funk or Prince album of your choice here* is soooo perfect! But someone like...let's say Avery Sunshine doesn't have 30+ years of adoration and study behind her stuff so she's just left to show up with some songs for displaced Jill Scott fans and hope those folks care enough to help her buy her next 3-piece with dirty rice.

I too got super snobby. And I still suffer with it SOMETIMES. But I've humbled myself enough to understand that there's no reason to dislike 'Bang' just because I want more folks to like Van Hunt.

To go back to the 70s, I'm pretty clear that my parents just stumbled into the albums that they had. They heard the songs in somebody's car. Or on Soul Train. Or on the radio. Or they ended up at a concert. Or they heard it in Sound Warehouse when they just went in there to get that new Barry White. They weren't reaching far out into the distance and grabbing for high-hanging fruits. They liked who they liked and rolled with that. Thinking back, the 'I Wanna Be Your Lover' Prince album and some random LTD album were the most 'obscure' things they had. Years later, I was over here with Van Hunt's outtakes album (Use in Case of Emergency) having the time of my life. That thing has a few of my favorite songs of his: Come Tomorrow, Funny, Her Smile, the non-rockish Attention remix...shiiiid. Jams.

Tangents aside (temporarily...this is me typing here)...'movements', manufactured or not, matter in music. Whether it is a cosign from a legend or a star or a Questy type 'nerd messiah' that folks trust for advice on what is good, it is important to have! Even something like what Pharrell did with/for Mayer Hawthorne could end up mattering more later on. And showing up at the right time with something that people want is a movement in of itself. And that's a 'new' a way to get yourself some attention.

If you don't have a huge audience and/or a big possibility of gained support, showing up with some old 'my next album will be out 8 months from now. Well probably so, y'all' is a silly way to 'work' a project. It always has been, but folks don't get away with that now since folks move on so quick from songs, albums, and even artists if there's no story, drama, or context to latch onto.

So, you're left with 'me and *producer* did a whole album together, y'all'. Or 'this is my last album, y'all...I know, this is my third last one, but I'm forreal this time, y'all'. Or 'BAM! Album is out tomorrow, y'all! You didn't even know tho! Haha! Gotcha!'.

Bilal and Van know they have fans. I'd expect that Van's fans are 'stronger' and 'more devoted' in general. Bilal's shelved album cut his legs off huge. And since he started from a higher place, the fall was bigger and probably hit him more heavily. He had Dr. Dre and 'trying to be a big deal'-era Jadakiss on the Fast Lane video. He had Soulquarian folks on his first album. Soul Sista seemed like a big enough deal (Saadiq-aided ballad after Untitled = big deal). He had the cool and funny Love It video. He had pretty much all of D'Angelo Jill's 2000 audience paying attention to him. Aka dude was out there. But then came the jackass performances and stories and 'issues with the label'. But he was still okay before Love For Sale vanished. Interscope are still some hoe ass hoes for that one.

Meanwhile, Van just had Randy saying 'Van is good, dog' if you asked him about it more than once. That wasn't shit! He had the 'Maxwell is gone, I am here, but I ain't mini-Marvin or with that whole sexy thang'. All of that misclassification left the individual listener to decide what they hoped for Van Hunt to be. And that helped ruin him with so many folks.

Sure, you're hoping that folks are 'better' than that. But sometimes, they aren't. And getting that is something to get over. To me, it is like getting surrounded with 'monsters' who only dig the stuff they are 'told' to dig. Meanwhile, you think you're back to back on OKP or wherever with folks who 'get it'...these folks listen to 'music for the music'! Some kind of 'noble cause'! But then you turn around and they're monsters too, doing dance routines to *insert some pop song that you think is wack*..like the most twisted vision of Thriller ever. Don't sweat it tho..we're on here typing a gang of paragraphs about music. We care big-time..we're just not all gonna agree on everything at the same time...especially on 'comparison conversations' like the one that started all of these posts. But the good part...I've listened to more Bilal in the last 3 days than I have in the last 3 years. Mission accomplished, OKP. Mission accomplished.

Jimaveli

>>Van has easily likeable and jammable songs. Is that an
>argument?
>
>It's not an argument, at all for me, and that leads me to the
>next point...
>
>>Or look at it this way, all he has is songs. And that ain't
>enough sadly...
>
>
>I remember reading an interview with Van Hunt somewhere, and
>he talked about
>being in the basement, working on some music. He runs up the
>stairs excited about
>what he's been working on, and Master P is playing on BET on
>the TV up stairs.
>He realizes this is where popular music is at the time and it
>takes all the steam
>out of him for the time being, and he just gets depressed,
>because he feels like
>he'll never be able to fit in with that. One could say he
>shouldn't be so easily discouraged,
>but that isn't the point here.
>What bugs me about it all is that we're here on a sort of site
>that champions the
>unheard voices in music, and we still have the biggest
>discussions about the artists
>who had the most corporate money behind them either now or at
>some time in the past.
>(there is the occasional exception, but it's rare).
>I guess it just bugs me that there doesn't really seem to be
>any community where
>the music truly matters more than "all the other stuff".
>Don't mind me... just wanted to get that off my chest. I
>agree with everything you said tho.
>
>
>
>>Katy Perry is a top-heavy and reasonably pretty white woman.
>>And she showed up singing to Kelly clarkson's audience about
>>kissing broads. That opens more folks up to her songs far
>more
>>than an old-looking black dude with punk funk leanings and
>>semi-tricky/indirect writing. And you know, labels can put
>>more money down when they think a fine chick with a few
>catchy
>>songs and even catchier outfits can help them get rich.
>>D'Angelo's first album, the bs Neo soul label, and him
>hittin
>>the gym...same thing. He had all of that AND Questo.
>>
>>Van Hunt was judged as a squirrelly Maxwell + Lenny Kravitz
>>without the over the top cool or any of the 'chicks dig
>him".
>>He did what he could with stuff like Attention and Precious,
>>but folks didn't roll with it. Aka 'just some songs'. He's
>one
>>of the artists that let me know I was listening harder and
>to
>>more stuff than the average person.
>>
>>And good lord, sliding him into the Neo soul bucket clearly
>>didn't help either. By that time, the Neo soul label had so
>>much baggage anyway. Obviously it is now clear that
>>quasi-righteous folks who don't comb their hair aren't a
>>reliable or large enough audience to base a career on trying
>>to appease. They'll leave your ass hanging for the next 'it'
>>soulman and then you're stuck trying to make a hit for folks
>>you hated on because you thought they had your back. Then
>them
>>cockroaches will fall up into dancemania without you and
>leave
>>you on the couch watching them dance with Tina. Aka they
>>bought the popular stuff that they tricked you into not
>>making. Beyonce and nem...
>>
>>Maybe we also missed the part where Stevie and Marvin were
>>cooing out copycat hits and covers for years before
>rebelling
>>and doing their own things. Folks thought they could skip
>that
>>part but the risk is still high.
>>
>>The first album, they lied about Van's age, had him imaged
>as
>>some neosoul pimp Curtis Mayfield, etc. They also did what
>>they could to make him into a 'this dude wrote songs that
>you
>>already like, so now you gotta like these' artist. Penny
>with
>>a hole in it, y'all! This guy wrote that!
>>
>>Van is a damn good song-writer who probably made a mistake
>by
>>continuing to show up with only himself as a vessel to get
>his
>>songs out and over. I dig Rahsaan Patterson, but he ain't
>the
>>vessel to get more folks into your sounds/songs/work. Even a
>>highly questionable artist like Terius Nash has a slice of
>an
>>audience still because he fed songs to visible stars who had
>>what he doesn't. Aka he positioned himself in a lane as a
>dude
>>who could 'for the right price make yo shit tighter'. Then
>he
>>slides in the back door with his own stuff. And when they
>try
>>to stop him, he hollers 'I wrote umbrella''.
>>
>>As an artist or even a known contributor, Van Hunt doesn't
>>have an Umbrella. Or an Untitled. Or a Soul Sista. Just A
>>Penny With a Hole in it. I mean that literally and not.
>

  

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GumDrops
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Sat Dec-20-14 01:17 PM

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80. "bilal is the better singer, by far. d is the better overall package."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for sheer emotional impact, bilal wins every time. dangelo rarely hits any emotional peaks or hits you *there* like bilal can (dangelo does manage it every so often though). but bilals problem is that he doesnt know how to really make albums, and could do with some co-writing at times. i mean, bilal is a genius vocalist, but hes not quite as good at the other stuff. if he had someone like dangelo writing for him, it would help. dangelo compensates for his emotional distance with great aesthetics and craft. bilal doesnt really consider what he does quite enough. its a shame. if he had a dr dre (anyone who doesnt think fast lane or sally are two of bilals best songs needs to have their ears checked) or questlove co-piloting him, i think he could be the artist he should be.

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
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Sat Dec-20-14 02:38 PM

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82. "People will gravitate to the first one rather than the second"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

hes great tho dont get it twisted. but D'Angelo was also just cooler.


____

TWITTER : Heinz21st

IG : H_N_Z

  

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Allah
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84. "Does Bilal play instruments?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

there.

_______________________
"Arm Leg Leg Arm Hate." c/o desus
_______________________
Divine Ruler
http://www.facebook.com/divineruler
__gigs__
__stuff__

  

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shockzilla
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Sat Dec-20-14 06:32 PM

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86. "why the fuck does that matter?"
In response to Reply # 84


          

bilal's voice is his instrument.

  

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MiQL
Member since Sep 03rd 2002
7208 posts
Sat Dec-20-14 09:51 PM

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87. "Nicholas Payton made some interesting points."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Compared to his peers
==============
"There’s nothing on the album that doesn’t sound like something else. In fact, Black Messiah sounds like a bad version of Bilal’s Love Surreal. I don’t remember folks giving this amount of love to Bilal when it was a far more creative effort than D’Angelo’s latest. Meanwhile, an artist like Van Hunt has been in the trenches giving us album after album of great music. His album Popular, which was deep-sixed by Blue Note is a little known gem that is every bit as great as Voodoo. While folks have been waiting 14 years for one guy to do an album, other cats have been busting their asses giving us great music the whole while."

A familiar analogy
=======================
"D’Angelo gets to be the deadbeat dad who gets all the love by showing up bearing gifts at Christmas every couple of years, while mom is busting her ass every day taking care of you and you ungrateful children could give a shit. I don’t get why it’s acceptable for him to take 14 years to deliver this okay album. And okay for him is so not okay. I expect more from what was at one time one of the most soulful, grooving multi-instrumentalists on the scene. And with a title like Black Messiah, I want nothing short of my mind blown."

Critiquing the rhythm
=============
"A central rhythmic theme throughout the album is the heavy four-on-the-floor that was a trademark of Sly’s work with The Family Stone. The problem with it on Black Messiah is that when Sly did it there was an undercurrent of syncopated ghost notes that made it groove. The way the quarter note is presented here, it’s subdivided by straight eights, which makes it come off stiff. Sounds like the typical non-swinging jazz album of today. Ironically, the message is Black Power, but the Black part is overshadowed by a barrage of sterile sixteenth notes. This sets the tone for the first quarter of the album — “Ain’t That Easy,” “The Charade” (which sounds like a nod to Prince’s “Raspberry Beret”) and “1000 Deaths.” And the same holds true for virtually every tune on the album."

"a little air restriction ain't hurt nobody." - BSR

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Sat Dec-20-14 10:23 PM

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88. "i agree that this album doesn't swing. "
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

but i don't know that it has to.

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Sun Dec-21-14 12:44 PM

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92. "Payton decries Black Music being put in a box so he puts All Music..."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

in boxes of his own construction

he's a hypocrite

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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Scrapluv
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Mon Dec-22-14 10:27 AM

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104. "RE: Payton decries Black Music being put in a box so he puts All Music....."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

>in boxes of his own construction
>
>he's a hypocrite

And a lazy ass critic, "sounds like a bad version of Bilal’s Love Surreal" and Charade sounds like Raspberry Beret? GTFOH, I would imagine a musician of his caliber would have more imagination than sounding like a jilted journalist.

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Sun Dec-21-14 01:17 PM

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93. "RE: Nicholas Payton made some interesting points."
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

"his first album Brown Sugar signaled an antidote to how commercial and syrupy R&B had become by the mid-’90s...At the time, I wasn’t a big fan of Brown Sugar. I had more faith in the UK based artists like The Brand New Heavies. The moment I began to believe in R&B again was with Erykah’s Baduism."

glaring L

"We were picking up where CTI records and cats like Freddie Hubbard and George Benson left off. We were shaking off the shackles of the purist mentality adopted and perpetuated by the likes of Wynton, and now Branford Marsalis."

love CTI but Creed Taylor Incorporated (Creed Taylor is a white man btw) was overdone schmaltzy fusion often geared to WHITE sensibilities of what "jazz" was too often for Payton to even be serious here

"I listened I found no overt references to Cannonball or Duke whatsoever, nor did I see any in the liner notes. Jive, but okay."

smh lol ok

"if he would be able to capture the same magic as he had on Voodoo...I’m not saying he’s lost it, but the things that made him such a force 14 years ago are not apparent on this album."

i wanted it to aound like Voodoo and it didn't sound like Voodoo, i'm mad

"In fact, Black Messiah sounds like a bad version of Bilal’s Love Surreal. I don’t remember folks giving this amount of love to Bilal when it was a far more creative effort than D’Angelo’s latest. Meanwhile, an artist like Van Hunt..."

i know & like Bilal & Van Hunt & am mad people don't like them as much as DAngelo

"I don’t get why it’s acceptable for him to take 14 years to deliver this okay album."

i hold other artists to standards i would resent if applied to myself and also they should be more like me in their approach to their work

"And there is a huge Rock component throughout the album I take issue with. I can’t get with Black people who play Rock. Rock is the White appropriation of the Blues. The Blues didn’t need another name. There is no need to mimic the voice of the oppressor back to him."

Rock White, Rock Bad *grunt*


*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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shockzilla
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Tue Dec-23-14 08:16 AM

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130. "meh. what a crock of shite."
In response to Reply # 87


          

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 02:11 PM

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139. "Agreed..."
In response to Reply # 130


          

After listening to this album-which I dig a lot; MUCH better than VoodoO imo-4 times thus far, his criticisms sound somewhat stupid even if he's admittedly consistent and cant be beaten true to the dorky music-school student he is...

First of all, it's true that the more "grovy" tunes generally stick to the 8th note shit he is talking about (well, "Prayer" threw me off-that's twisted approach to rhythm a jazz-musician *SHOULD* appreciate on sheer principle; then again, perhaps not a square like Payton who praise CTI...), the songs with more "rocky" rhythms sure as fuck don't; "1000 deaths" doesn't exactly have that 8th note east-coast boom-bap feel. Of course, since he thinks that black people shouldn't play "rock"-and his reasonings for that seems stuck in a time-warp where Stones and Animals made millions playing Black blues; like 50 years ago-I guess he doesn't care.

Furthermore, the Ghost-note thing:well, they are called Ghost-notes for a reason-you don't hear them! Seriously, I understand what he is going at and it's a common problem past Hip-Hop (fuck, post-*disco*) but thAts the thin 'angelo is not JUST a retro soulman; no, he's one heavily informed by (90's) Hip-Hop and its associated aesthetics which is based on loops and everything that goes with it; the free-wlowing, oonstant subtle change of rhythm that is, say, "TARGO", isn't really Hip-Hop like that (for the record, I noticed subtle changes of rhythm in severazl tracks).

What I found odd is why/how he feels "Voodoo" pulls this off better. Maybe I need to listen to ''VOOdoo" again but my memory of that album is that it was FAR more rhytmically "Hip-Hop" stereotype than this album as a whole; I guess it's in the gost-notes (seriously, I think he's talking out of his ass)...

HOWEER, I must say that the drum-fills in "Another life" as well as the Keyboard thing after the "hook" gives me a strong, wack, arena-rock/post-"Who's next" circus-trick drummer feel; I was disappointed in that tune after reading so much good things about it here and it has NOTHING to do with the composition and EERYTHING to do with the rhythm-arrangement which reminds me of some really wack rock. Then again ,the Lesson likes wack rock so I'm not surprised. Good song either way but those drum-fills? Yikes...

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 03:23 PM

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141. "fwiw he's on record decrying sampling & beatmaking as..."
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

destructive to Black music (not music in general bc music only seems to be music to him if it's "Black")

and yes he did this in his usual snarky, disrespectful, dismissive, know-it-all tone

the guy's a tool & not very self-aware

note: love you straight calling dude a square over the CTI thing too lmao

finally i found it funny to see on the the blog page he's slamming sample based music right over to the side his live performance of Sketches of Spain CD for sale

decrying stealing music but covering an entire album & one of the most well known at that?

i found it bizarre & further evidemce of his oblivious hypocrisy

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 06:57 PM

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146. "it's a sense of entitlement some jazz-musicians have..."
In response to Reply # 141


          

...that is based on decades of having smoke blown up their asses based on the "importance" of their artform; a luxury that was never afforded to everything from jump-blues to doo-wop to stax-soul to (insert a black pop-form that got "deserted" and just got incorporated into the general language of popular music without little interest in its roots).

Meanwhile, people actually care about 50-60 year old recordings by jazz-artists which is a luxury not afforded to ANY other once popular style besides Beatles, Dylan, Sinatra (insert WHITE act) with the exception of some blues acts but the kids aren't checking for those the way they they do Miles, Trane; Monk and Mingus very non-pop music. The reason is that it has been viewed as high art, as americas classical music (which I agree with 100% BTW); actually, this very reason is why people (not Payton himself admittedly, I guess that gives him some extra entitlement) can go to academies and study jazz-you think jazz-musicians prior to the, um, 70's had that luxury?

Yet, people like Payton are whining about jazz losing its pop-music roots and asking why it isn't more "cool" amongst the kids today when the very reason when most people today that are jazz-musicians in the first place is because of jazz being viewed as "high art" and something different than pop; people can study at the Lincoln jazz-centre, you think Ornette had that opportunity when he was playing R&B clubs and got beaten up for playing Charlie Parker-licks and destroying the groove? Yet, people who studied at Juilliard (Hi MIles!) was dissing him for not playing "black" enough? There's so much bullshit in the history of jazz it's not even funny that is related to class and shit...

All those dudes who talk this shit are just fucking assholes; either they are academy-trained musicians so far from the roots of jazz its not even funny or they are guys like Payton who might have genuine jazz-cred but fail to recognize that any attention given to him is *because* he exists outside of the pop-music epicentre and is recognized as a "serious" artist... Yet, dude feel he can comment on music rooted in Hip-Hop and even funk and think his words carry any weight just because he is a "good" (tm) musician? FOH!!!

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Wed Dec-24-14 05:04 AM

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156. "he writes like an elitist who wants to be a man of the people"
In response to Reply # 146
Wed Dec-24-14 05:05 AM by phlipout

  

          

or who thinks he is speaking for them, all evidence to the contrary

so he won't use the term "jazz" while grafting some half-assed version of Stanley Crouch onto a pro-Black scarecrow with a little "i'm relatively young & black so all the effette liberal ofays in the jazz scene will buy my hip-hop opinions even when I'm talking out my ass"

old fedora & steve harvey suit wearing cherub looking snob

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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drugs
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9149 posts
Sun Dec-21-14 12:29 PM

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91. "1. untitled video (never underestimate good abs and a pretty face)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

2. d has a self destructive and melancholy quality that people are drawn to, sorta the amy winehouse effect.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Sun Dec-21-14 07:02 PM

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96. "Interesting point"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

about the self destructive quality.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Sun Dec-21-14 05:20 PM

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94. "d'angelo had the hype and the songs"
In response to Reply # 0


          

timing as well.

blial never has had that song and also accessible is another issue.

D'angelo is catchy enough for the club,partying to and also getting high to.

Blial you gotta listen digest and think.

Mumblo and Pooty tang what a battle??

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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dafriquan
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Sun Dec-21-14 05:50 PM

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95. "Bilal is the superior singer"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Amazing range, incredible dynamics and great clarity.
Also the ability to emote every note.
Nothing is wasted with Bilal.
He puts his instrument to use.

Only problem is he does not have many memorable songs.
Writing is his weakest trait.

I wish he had his own "Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis" team
Shopping for beats and doing vocal exercises on them is not realising his full potential
He should be a marquee artist not a nostalgic neo-soul leftover
He is way too talented for that

  

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cbk
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Mon Dec-22-14 01:29 AM

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97. "I'm surprised Martin Luther doesn't get as much attention as Bilal"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Martin Luther has it all.


Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51981 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 05:07 AM

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99. "Are there any Bilal songs that coulda/shoulda been HITS-hits?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Lilke, at the level of Lady, How does it feel, hell even Devil's Pie?

All the world knows is "Soul Sista" which I remember hearing he hates for various reasons. I liked Sometimes and tracks like "Reminisce" for sure, but I haven't heard many songs that I feel would have been hits even if D'Angelo made em (hypothetically). And for the most part, non-cult type fans are drawn to hits, along with the overall image.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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self_ish
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Mon Dec-22-14 08:29 AM

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102. "He has songs that could warrant some radio play. But hits? Nope."
In response to Reply # 99


          

White Turns to Grey and possibly Lord Don't Let It from the shelved Love For Sale are songs that I think black radio could have eaten up had they been released. Now, there are a couple of songs on Airtight's Revenge that could have gained some traction on alt radio if Bilal weren't black lol. Mainly Levels, Restart and All Matter.

And with his latest project, which seemed like an intentional return to "soul", Butterfly had the most potential; but I don't know if that got any play on the adult urban stations that play Kem all day. I don't know if they touched the lead single Back to Love either. He just released a video for the song Slipping Away, which is a strong song, but it might be too "sleepy" to get much burn.




>Lilke, at the level of Lady, How does it feel, hell even
>Devil's Pie?
>
>All the world knows is "Soul Sista" which I remember hearing
>he hates for various reasons. I liked Sometimes and tracks
>like "Reminisce" for sure, but I haven't heard many songs that
>I feel would have been hits even if D'Angelo made em
>(hypothetically). And for the most part, non-cult type fans
>are drawn to hits, along with the overall image.
>
>


......................................

https://soundcloud.com/jasper_brown

http://jasperbrown.bandcamp.com/

  

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Coco la chapelle
Member since Sep 17th 2006
3019 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 05:49 PM

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114. "Laugh at me but You're All I Need "
In response to Reply # 99
Mon Dec-22-14 05:49 PM by Coco la chapelle

  

          

Everybody I put on this song loved it and Im not talking about neo soul lovers only. Yeah it's weird and he would never have been a hit but he could have gotten some radio attention and give Bilal a larger fan base.

  

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Anonymous
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Mon Dec-22-14 08:42 AM

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103. "This post is fucking hilarious...Bilal fans are delusional"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The post asked why hasn't Bilal gotten the same ATTENTION as D'angelo.

And people are really up here trying to argue Bilal is as good as D'angelo.

Comprehension is completely gone.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 11:39 AM

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105. "The only real answer is that Bilal is an alternative artist."
In response to Reply # 0


          

He, admittedly, AIMS to be such.
He has soul origins, but even soul might as well be alternative in 2014/15.
Someone mentioned above that he's making music we've never heard before.
This is true. This also makes him "inaccessible" in such a depressingly formulaic climate.
I tend to share the opinion that Bilal is just as talented and, truth be told, more creative
than D'angelo (not sure how anyone could deny the "more creative" part), because
Bilal COMPLETELY CREATES something new. As I stated before, Black Messiah sounds
like Sylvester Nelson & Revolutionary Family. I really dig it, but it's an obvious stew of
influences with a personal spin on it. You can't say that about Bilal's stuff. He really does CREATE.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 11:48 AM

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107. "so D'Angelo doesn't "really create"?"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

smh i've seen it all

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 02:01 PM

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110. "Most of his work is VERY derivative..."
In response to Reply # 107


          

Especially on Black Messiah. As stated, I like the album. I don't think all derivative
work is bad work. 1000 jacks the shit outta Sly & The Fam (possibly my fave group of
all time), and I still like it.
I'm also not saying D'angelo hasn't EVER created a sound, but Bilal is very daring
and courageous with the stuff he does... which causes people to have to acquaint themselves
with his sound.
No way you can tell me "Charade", "Prayer", "Untitled", or even "When We Get By"
sound completely new. These are familiar styles if not outright copies of other artists.


~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Mon Dec-22-14 06:22 PM

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117. "i can't comrehend how someone w/ as unique an artistic voice/sound..."
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

can be placed in a box simply because of his aesthetic

i mean you're talking about the cat like he's Mayer Hawthorne or something

bizarre

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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cbk
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Mon Dec-22-14 06:31 PM

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119. "can you name some similar songs/albums?"
In response to Reply # 110


          

>1000 jacks the shit outta Sly & The Fam
>(possibly my fave group of
>all time), and I still like it.

yeah, i can def see the sly comparisons. but "1000 deaths" is harder and louder than anything on "riot."

>"Charade"

i initially thought "diamonds and pearls" era prince. specifially "money don't matte 2nite". but after i got really got into "charade" i realized those were just surface comparisons.

>"Prayer"

man, i ain't never heard a song like "prayer"! those severely drunk ass drums??? no chorus??? which song sounds like this???

>"Untitled"

sure. definitely a controversy era prince tribute. bass popping on a ballad, that riff, etc.

>"When We Get By"

kinda thought so, but i can't identify any particular song that sounds like it. jazzy, shuffle song, with drums up front like that. it definitely had a hip-hop feel to it, even though none of the parts were hip-hoppy. any similar songs?

every once in a while i hear some specific elements that are tributes/derivatives of earlier stuff, but the sum of the whole is somthing new. i think "ain't that easy" is a good example of this: funkadelic vox, "raspberry beret" clap, etc. but again, it's the alchemy of these elements that make it into something new.

now, here are some d'angelo songs i've never ever ever heard anything similar to before: "jonz" "SDMF" "dreamin eyes" "the root" "devil's pie" "chicken grease" "greatday" "africa"

and truly unique d'angelo element is his singing voice. no one has his tone, his enunciation, his cadence, coupled with his layers, vox arrangements, etc. not prince, not phillip bailey, not marvin, not al green, not james brown, not aaron hall, not...etc. and if any new singer comes along and tries anything similar, we'll think "he's channeling d'angelo!"



Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 08:00 AM

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128. "RE: can you name some similar songs/albums?"
In response to Reply # 119
Tue Dec-23-14 08:17 AM by Boogie Stimuli

          

>>1000 jacks the shit outta Sly & The Fam
>>(possibly my fave group of
>>all time), and I still like it.
>
>yeah, i can def see the sly comparisons. but "1000 deaths" is
>harder and louder than anything on "riot."


Well it's released in 2014 and has the benefit of better technology and Hip Hop
influence, so "louder" and "harder" would seem more of a result of those...
still "Luv N Haight" is pretty loud and hard


>>"Charade"
>
>i initially thought "diamonds and pearls" era prince.
>specifially "money don't matte 2nite". but after i got really
>got into "charade" i realized those were just surface
>comparisons.


Lol... I really wanna say you're bordering on making it hard to take you serious by
saying it's only "surface comparisons". It's a Prince song through and through from
the guitar melody and tone to the melody of the song itself to his "all he wanted was
a chance to talk" ad lib... oh and the clap just puts the icing on the cake. I don't even
know what Prince era to put it in... just anytime after 1986, this is a great Prince impression.
So good that I like it.


>>"Prayer"
>
>man, i ain't never heard a song like "prayer"! those severely
>drunk ass drums??? no chorus??? which song sounds like
>this???



This is another heavily influenced Prince song. The guitar melody and tone strike again,
along with the clap. Of course a clap alone doesn't spell P-r-i-n-c-e, but when you've
got so many other Prince elements running through your music, it's easy to see
where you're coming from.
No chorus doesn't really create something new, lol. Drunk drums either. I guess
these are things that add his own touch to the Prince influence though.
But again, I really like this song too.


>>"Untitled"
>
>sure. definitely a controversy era prince tribute. bass
>popping on a ballad, that riff, etc.



Man if you didn't see this one, I was gonna give up.



>>"When We Get By"
>
>kinda thought so, but i can't identify any particular song
>that sounds like it. jazzy, shuffle song, with drums up front
>like that. it definitely had a hip-hop feel to it, even
>though none of the parts were hip-hoppy. any similar songs?


I was gonna explain, but I realized you did it in your next paragraph...


>every once in a while i hear some specific elements that are
>tributes/derivatives of earlier stuff, but the sum of the
>whole is somthing new. i think "ain't that easy" is a good
>example of this: funkadelic vox, "raspberry beret" clap, etc.
>but again, it's the alchemy of these elements that make it
>into something new.


One could look at it like that. I don't think derivative work always sounds like
one particular song... in fact, I think that's pretty rare. It's just that once you take
so many elements of a particular sound or the take them without altering them too
much, it just sounds like something they would have made, if that makes sense.
In more down-to-earth language, you're jacking their style.
Take for instance Robin Thicke's "Got 2 Be Down" ft. Faith Evans. His vocal stylings
there are obviously derivative of Marvin Gaye. What particular Marvin Gaye song?
I'd have to name plenty, because that's just Marvin's whole style being jacked.
That also happens to be one of Thicke's best songs tho, imo lol.


>now, here are some d'angelo songs i've never ever ever heard
>anything similar to before: "jonz" "SDMF" "dreamin eyes" "the
>root" "devil's pie" "chicken grease" "greatday" "africa"


Yeah like I said, I'm not saying he's never made anything that wasn't biting someone
else's style. He does create... just not habitually as Bilal does. Let's not forget that
the Bilal comparison is why this convo is being had. In light of that, it could be said
that D'angelo knows how to temper his experimentation enough to keep it relatable
to the common person. I'd be lying if I said I don't listen to Bilal and wish he'd just
make a straight-forward song without SO MUCH experimentation sometimes.
For instance "Back To Love" frustrates me STILL, because the beat is there, the voice
is there, but the way he's singing the verses damn near off key... I'm just like WHY?
*sigh* The rest of the song is perfect... it's just stuff like that that keeps me from
going back to his music as often as I'd like to.
I say all that to say that I don't think it's a bad thing that D doesn't create as much
as Bilal. I think Bilal would be better off NOT creating something new every time he
opens his mouth to sing, because a voice as great as his is needed on some traditional
sounds that reach the masses. I mean why is John Legend representing Black music
right now while Sam Smith remakes Whitney Houston songs? It makes no sense lol.
Our great singers are in the basement experimenting. Cmon son.


>and truly unique d'angelo element is his singing voice. no
>one has his tone, his enunciation, his cadence, coupled with
>his layers, vox arrangements, etc. not prince, not phillip
>bailey, not marvin, not al green, not james brown, not aaron
>hall, not...etc. and if any new singer comes along and tries
>anything similar, we'll think "he's channeling d'angelo!"


Lol, I like how you named 7 singers who sing him under the table, and that could
lend itself to why he relies on things like cadence and half enunciation as means
of making himself unique... I'm not sure... but at any rate, the unintelligible cadence
is unique... under-enunciation has been a thing way before D'angelo tho.
Anita Baker was the queen of that when I was younger.


~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 10:04 AM

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137. "lol"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

remind me to never take any opinion you have on music seriously, old cramming the facts into your reality ass mofo lol

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 11:12 PM

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153. "Here I am being completely respectful to everybody in this thread..."
In response to Reply # 137


          

and here your childish bitch ass comes with some unwarranted
and unprovoked insult. Can't even disagree respectfully with some
of you low-level muthafuckas. Die 1000 Deaths u little insecure coward.

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Wed Dec-24-14 04:45 AM

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155. "that's one hurt pussy there sweetheart"
In response to Reply # 153
Wed Dec-24-14 04:50 AM by phlipout

  

          

have a happy holiday & don't be so sensitive & overreact all the damn time, it's faggy & immature

try a little self awareness & acceptance that as much as you think you know you don't really know shit

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Wed Dec-24-14 05:31 AM

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157. "Jump off a bridge with your depressed, bipolar ass."
In response to Reply # 155
Wed Dec-24-14 05:33 AM by Boogie Stimuli

          

New name, same dumb shit. For a while there, you were doing ok.
Can't hide your disease too long I guess.
Get help.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Wed Dec-24-14 09:56 AM

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165. "let's take a break here & review the last few posts"
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

i say remind me not to take your music opinion seriously & that you are trying to fit the facts to your narrative...assholish a bit, i agree

you call me a "low level mothafucka" & suggest that i die

i retort w/ an OE style pussy joke & admittedly use harsh language to make light of how mad you got at my original "dis"

you make light of my medical condition which i've struggled with my whole life & again suggest that i should die


i'm sure people see it


sorry tho & sincerely wish Happy Holiday to you & yours, these are heavy times & i pray for us all

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Wed Dec-24-14 06:34 PM

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166. "Let's not, because you started in with the insults and bullshit."
In response to Reply # 165


          

Then when I kill the ant with a sledgehammer, you cryin foul on some throw stones and
hide your hands junk.
I don't need your sugar-coated recap.
Get the entire fuck outta here and take your medication.

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Thu Dec-25-14 08:14 AM

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170. "merry solstice to you & yours!"
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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cbk
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Tue Dec-23-14 01:18 PM

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138. "hmmm..."
In response to Reply # 128
Tue Dec-23-14 01:19 PM by cbk

          

i think we'll have a lot of "agree to disagree"ments, so i'll just address the below...

but first, one point i forgot to make was how i know that an artist has made something truly unique--it's when i think "oh, this new song sounds just like (that artist)!" recently, when i heard st vincent's "dilletante" and beyonce's "rocket" my first thought was "oh shit, they're making a d'angelo-sounding song!!!" i thought the same thing when i listened to some of the deeper cuts on john mayer's "continuum". there were no other artists to associate those songs with. that made me realize how unique and influential "voodoo" was, 6 to 8 to 14 years later. i still don't think any record before it sounds anything like it.

okay...

>One could look at it like that. I don't think derivative work
>always sounds like
>one particular song... in fact, I think that's pretty rare.
>It's just that once you take
>so many elements of a particular sound or the take them
>without altering them too
>much, it just sounds like something they would have made, if
>that makes sense.
>In more down-to-earth language, you're jacking their style.
>Take for instance Robin Thicke's "Got 2 Be Down" ft. Faith
>Evans. His vocal stylings
>there are obviously derivative of Marvin Gaye. What
>particular Marvin Gaye song?
>I'd have to name plenty, because that's just Marvin's whole
>style being jacked.
>That also happens to be one of Thicke's best songs tho, imo
>lol.
>

yeah i instantly thought "marvin!!!" on the first note thicke sang on that song. even down to the bongos! (there's bongos in that song, right? it's been a while...)

sooo...given the above, i still don't see how d'angelo is any more or less "derivative" than bilal. both pull other elements into their unique sound--to the same degree. both have unique singing voices that are unmistakably them. but unless we come up with some kind of metric to measure this shit, we'll still be disagreeing...which is all good!

granted, i'm working off of 3/4 of bilal's catologue (had "love surreal" for about a wee...wait a minute, EVEN HIS ALBUM TITLE IS DERIVATIVE!!!...and i've always had "1stBS" and "L4S"). but unless he's singning in some made-up language over music that barely makes sense, then i'm gonna assume it's still the same amount of deriving (but even that's not new...sigur ros already did that on their first 2 LPs).


>Lol, I like how you named 7 singers who sing him under the
>table, and that could
>lend itself to why he relies on things like cadence and half
>enunciation as means
>of making himself unique... I'm not sure... but at any rate,
>the unintelligible cadence
>is unique... under-enunciation has been a thing way before
>D'angelo tho.
>Anita Baker was the queen of that when I was younger.

i don't think his stylings are a crutch; another agree to disagree...but fuck that, none of them dudes "singing d'angelo under the table"!!! haha


Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Wed Dec-24-14 03:58 AM

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154. "Lol, I just don't worship at the altar of D'angelo, man. He's good and ..."
In response to Reply # 138


          

but Aaron Hall doesn't sing him under the table? LOL. Aite.
Aaron's bonafied... man nevermind.
Nah but c'mon son! THIS GUY? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW48PHNA7tI#t=1m25s
And that's recent shit, cat is 50 right now.
Nah man. D will NEVER see Aaron Hall on no singing.
I'm not even gonna touch Marvin Gaye or Phillip Bailey on some "Reasons" shit.
Hell D' remade "Can't Hide Love" and wasn't even fuckin with Maurice White, lol.
(no shot, Maurice is one of the most underrated vocalists EVER, so I understand
D's struggle).
If I recall correctly, he had the background do Phillip's part.
ANYWAY, on to the rest...



>sooo...given the above, i still don't see how d'angelo is any
>more or less "derivative" than bilal. both pull other
>elements into their unique sound--to the same degree.


But you said when you heard "Charade", you were trying to figure out what Prince
era that came from. I mean, if anything lets you know it's derivative, your own gut should.
Maybe you get that often from Bilal too... I don't tho. I'll hear that some music
sounds like another artist or that one "Slyde" song, but the tribute actually IS in
the title there, unlike with "A Love Surreal". That's just title. Let's talk MUSIC.
But again, I'M NOT SAYING D' DOESN'T CREATE, AT ALL. I'm saying Bilal just does
it way more, even to his own detriment, imo. I'd actually like to hear him be less
creative and roll just a little more in the tradition of his forefathers and mothers.
I'd find a great deal of his music more listenable, personally. I often want to stop
Bilaling and just do what seems to give him the heeby jeebies.... something predictable.
D' does it, and I play his shit out. I feel like yall are coming at me like I'm trashing
D'angelo when it's quite the opposite. The discussion is who's the more creative artist.


~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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cbk
Charter member
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Sat Dec-27-14 04:49 PM

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180. "i still want some specifics"
In response to Reply # 154


          

i'm not tryna be a dick. but i'd just like to hear things from your perspective.

>But again, I'M NOT SAYING D' DOESN'T CREATE, AT ALL. I'm
>saying Bilal just does
>it way more, even to his own detriment, imo.

okay, what are some songs where bilal creates something new? i remember "second child" struck me as something quite new when i first heard it. "sometimes" too. really not getting that feeling on "a love surreal" though.

or even on a more technical level, are there any bilal songs where he uses some new chord progressions? vocal techniques/phrasings? (probably a lot there)
or some patches of his own creation?--d'angelo has been doing the latter since "brown sugar".


Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Thu Dec-25-14 07:00 AM

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169. "AARON HALL tho!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 138


          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0nmSy5tY5s

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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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thebigfunk
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Tue Dec-23-14 07:22 AM

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126. "RE: The only real answer is that Bilal is an alternative artist."
In response to Reply # 105


          

That's really *not* the only real answer though. That's a bullshit answer that you're playing as a strategic move to justify your own (subjective) belief that he is a "more creative" artist, something that can't be quantified, at least not in any substantial degree.

>Someone mentioned above that he's making music we've never
>heard before.
>This is true. This also makes him "inaccessible" in such a
>depressingly formulaic climate.

See above. People are talking like Bilal's on some John Cage shit... he's really not. He's not *that* "weird." I agree that his shit doesn't fit contemporary formats, but it's not because his music is *soooooo* next-level that nobody, like, you know, *really gets him*....

>I tend to share the opinion that Bilal is just as talented
>and, truth be told, more creative
>than D'angelo (not sure how anyone could deny the "more
>creative" part), because
>Bilal COMPLETELY CREATES something new. As I stated before,
>Black Messiah sounds
>like Sylvester Nelson & Revolutionary Family. I really dig
>it, but it's an obvious stew of
>influences with a personal spin on it. You can't say that
>about Bilal's stuff. He really does CREATE.

I think I see what you're hearing here in terms of "derivative," but it's a terribly imprecise word for a rather awful measure of comparison. I think you're right that you can hear D's influences more immediately, more clearly, for sure. But D's not playing an imitation game in his work (at least beyond Brown Sugar) ... the influences are filtered, reworked, and ultimately spun into something strikingly new. (For all the claims of derivative that folks like Payton might make, there really aren't many songs out there that *actually* sound like anything D's put together on Black...).

Ultimately, they make two very different types of creations. And ultimately, they are two very different types of artists. It's depressing that an accomplished musician resorted to x > y arguments and in the process overlooked that fact. This thread is about as unnecessary as they come, but the Lesson has always liked a good x is better than y post, even if know (deep down in our heart of hearts) that ranking artists that most acknowledge are good is a fool's errand... fun, maybe, but far from "intelligent music discussion" ... precisely because you have to rely on attempts to measure things that cannot (and should not!) be measured (like "creativity").

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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Coco la chapelle
Member since Sep 17th 2006
3019 posts
Tue Dec-23-14 05:18 PM

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142. "He is weird though"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

No he is not totally out there but he's not a normal cool music nerd like D'angelo ...

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Wed Dec-24-14 06:32 AM

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158. "RE: The only real answer is that Bilal is an alternative artist."
In response to Reply # 126


          

>That's really *not* the only real answer though. That's a
>bullshit answer that you're playing as a strategic move to
>justify your own (subjective) belief that he is a "more
>creative" artist, something that can't be quantified, at least
>not in any substantial degree.


C'mon man. I'm not here to justify anything. I'm referring to an interview about
his nomination for Grammy with the Glasper Experiment. He was JUICED to be
considered an Alternative artist... so much so that he said he'd finally hit his mark
as a musician. That's what he'd been aiming for his whole career. This is all I'm
talking about. I really don't have anything to justify, as his Alternative aims and
classification are a FACT.



>See above. People are talking like Bilal's on some John Cage
>shit... he's really not. He's not *that* "weird." I agree that
>his shit doesn't fit contemporary formats, but it's not
>because his music is *soooooo* next-level that nobody, like,
>you know, *really gets him*....



Read my comments in here, man. I'm definitely not saying he's "next-level".
I've said about 2 or 3 times that his creativity is to his detriment as far as I'm concerned.
The important this here is that we agree that his music doesn't fit into contemporary formats.
His music doesn't really fit into ANY format, and he prefers it that way. I wish it would
a lot of the time. I mentioned the example of "Back To Love" elsewhere.



>I think I see what you're hearing here in terms of
>"derivative," but it's a terribly imprecise word for a rather
>awful measure of comparison. I think you're right that you can
>hear D's influences more immediately, more clearly, for sure.
>But D's not playing an imitation game in his work (at least
>beyond Brown Sugar) ... the influences are filtered, reworked,
>and ultimately spun into something strikingly new.


This is kinda where you lose me (most with Black Messiah), because I can't pick
one song on there that sounds like something STRIKINGLY new. Above, a cat admitted
that he was trying to pick which Prince era "Charade" came from, but then decided
it sounded completely new... I mean, c'mon. Ultimately, I love the hell out of the
song, so it doesn't matter one way or the other.


>(For all the claims of derivative that folks like Payton might make,
>there really aren't many songs out there that *actually* sound
>like anything D's put together on Black...).


I addressed this "one particular song" notion elsewhere as well. In a nutshell, you
can jack a style without jacking a particular song. I mean which Tupac song was
Lil Zane jacking? Did it matter? You just knew that was Pac's style. Charade is Prince's style
as was Untitled... which song does Untitled sound like though?


>Ultimately, they make two very different types of creations.
>And ultimately, they are two very different types of artists.
>It's depressing that an accomplished musician resorted to x >
>y arguments and in the process overlooked that fact. This
>thread is about as unnecessary as they come, but the Lesson
>has always liked a good x is better than y post, even if know
>(deep down in our heart of hearts) that ranking artists that
>most acknowledge are good is a fool's errand... fun, maybe,
>but far from "intelligent music discussion" ... precisely
>because you have to rely on attempts to measure things that
>cannot (and should not!) be measured (like "creativity").


I agree with a large chunk of this. And that's what we're doing, having a fun discussion...
at least it's fun for me, until people turn into 12 yr olds with namecalling and other
ridiculousness. I mean, I interact with human beings OFFLINE, so a friendly disagreement
is fun stuff to me. *shrugs*




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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2729 posts
Thu Dec-25-14 04:03 PM

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174. "tutu...."
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

sounds like nothing....

and its the best thing i heard in a minute

well...maybe it sounds like a tribe called quest practiced instruments for 15 years and decided to recreate their midnight marauders vibe live....and added some gospel feel and a mumbling but beautiful falsetto....


i kid i kid

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Thu Dec-25-14 05:22 PM

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175. "Sounds like something from Janelle Monae's Archandroid..."
In response to Reply # 174


          

and the funny thing is if she made the song, it would be much more sonically rich.
Yet, she gets little love around these parts.

I agree that it's a dope song tho.


>well...maybe it sounds like a tribe called quest practiced
>instruments for 15 years and decided to recreate their
>midnight marauders vibe live....and added some gospel feel and
>a mumbling but beautiful falsetto....

lol


~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2729 posts
Thu Dec-25-14 11:08 PM

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176. "respectfully disagree"
In response to Reply # 175
Thu Dec-25-14 11:10 PM by howardlloyd

  

          

!

edit: like a lot .... as much as you could disagree while still being respectful

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
14000 posts
Fri Dec-26-14 03:52 AM

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177. "And again, that's perfectly ok."
In response to Reply # 176


          

~
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Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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cbk
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Sat Dec-27-14 04:28 PM

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179. "NO I DIDN'T!!!"
In response to Reply # 158


          

>Above, a cat admitted
>that he was trying to pick which Prince era "Charade" came
>from, but then decided
>it sounded completely new... I mean, c'mon. Ultimately, I
>love the hell out of the
>song, so it doesn't matter one way or the other.

i said the prince similarities were "surface comparisons," meaning that ultimately, i concluded that sitar thingy sounded SIMILAR to shit prince used, and that my initial reaction to "charade" sounding like "money don't matter 2nite" were way off (bassline, pattern, etc were nothing like it!).

just some clarification...i never said "charade" sounded "completely new".


Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

  

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Crash Bandacoot
Member since May 13th 2003
10114 posts
Wed Dec-24-14 06:49 PM

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167. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 105
Wed Dec-24-14 06:53 PM by Crash Bandacoot

          

except that d'angelo is a great artist. black messiah is really
good. and people saying that bilal doesn't have memorable
songs?!...mofos are delusional. he's an alternative ARTIST.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
instagram:
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"There is much temptation to use what has worked before,
even when it may exceed its effective scope."

"Roll me further bitch"

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Mon Dec-22-14 11:43 AM

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106. "Three main things:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

1) No Untitled
2) No Questlove hype train
3) No Voodoo tour

  

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Menphyel7
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122. "Shit!!!!"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          


>2) No Questlove hype train
?uest hyped the shit outta him 2..He was mad they didn't get to Vodoo 1st Born second and he right

Interscope fucked Bilal up..then not rereleasing Love for sale.. they killed him.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

  

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thebigfunk
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Tue Dec-23-14 06:58 AM

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124. "RE: Shit!!!!"
In response to Reply # 122


          

>
>>2) No Questlove hype train
>?uest hyped the shit outta him 2..He was mad they didn't get
>to Vodoo 1st Born second and he right
>
>Interscope fucked Bilal up..then not rereleasing Love for
>sale.. they killed him.
>

Yeah - Questlove was *all* over the place talking about Bilal for the first album... talking about hearing him improv on the street corner or something like that when they first met (I think), and going apeshit over him. A lot of this *is* about Interscope really fucking with the momentum built by 1st...

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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shockzilla
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132. "even first born second could have been much better."
In response to Reply # 124


          

it's unfortunate how uneven that album is. 'a love surreal' is terrific, though, and is his best album by far imo.

i just saw bilal perform the album live in a small club in prague and he killed it.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
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Mon Dec-22-14 06:03 PM

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116. "An aside: I appreciate Payton's voice even when I disagree w/ him"
In response to Reply # 0


          

We obviously disagree on our feelings about the music on Black Messiah.
Funny thing is that we agree that it's extremely derivative. I just happen to still like it.
We agree that there should have been some mention of Adderly or Duke in the liner
notes, give then title of the album.
We also disagree which album is D'angelo's best.
But I gotta appreciate that he speaks on Black music from a Black perspective.
We have wayyyy to many people rating us and dissecting us from NON-Black perspectives.
This guy can also give truly informed historical and musical perspectives.

~
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~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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Tue Dec-23-14 02:41 PM

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140. "And BTW, Bilal?"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Dec-23-14 02:45 PM by Jakob Hellberg

          

While I was familair with Bilal before this thread and knew what he 'generally* sounded like, it's really not the same thing. Dude is one of thOse self-consciously clever, 'jazzy', post-Omar vocalists. Very sophisticated and smart but even on fucking ''VOODOO", D'angelo sounded more forceful, physical and flat-out visceral than this dude.

I can understand why people dig dude but it's not my thing at all whereas D'angelo always been right up my alley. And it has nothing to do with my old-school definition of good soul and funk either even if I guess you could find some shallow comparisons in Gil Scott Hron and others musically. If anyone can recommend some Bilal that actually doesn't sound like music-school noodling, I'll be glad to take it.

Basically, I do not give a flying fuck about neo-soul and I didn't even think ''Voodoo" was THAT good; yet, I care bout this guy, his music appeals to me whereas the likes of Bilal etc. leaves me cold. Maybe that's the very answer to the question; that D'angelo actually appeals to people outside of the core demographic.

As for Van Hunt, I REALLY need to hear more than the lame funk-rock/"alt" shit I've heard from dude which is very little admittedly...

  

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Coco la chapelle
Member since Sep 17th 2006
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Tue Dec-23-14 05:36 PM

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143. "D'angelo is easier to get into"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Dec-23-14 05:49 PM by Coco la chapelle

  

          

Bilal was sold as a cool soul artist at the begining of his career and his music was first directed to people that didn't want to hear some weird experimentation shit and some crazy ass live performances. IMO that was the first problem with Bilal, he could't be tamed and threw a lot of people off when he started showing who he really was to the public he was first marketed to. He could have had some more attention (not as much as D'angelo but some more) but he wouldn't/couldn't compromise and act like his "first public" would've liked him to act. Also it feels to me that he had missed or wasted all the opportunity that were given to him to get attention (TV appareances, ect) and that's a real problem, he doesn't know how to adapt or he doesn't want to adapt to different audiences.

Then came the whole "Love For Sale" drama, the album was a good departure from his debut, it was left but not too weird, challenging but still accessible to his former fan base but it got leaked and Bilal stoped doing music for a while. He did capitalized on the leak after since he toured a lot on the strenght of that unreleased album but he kind of missed his momentum with this shelved album : he lost the rights on theses songs, didn't make any money on them, didn't gain any "official industry" attention.

When he officially came back with Airtight's Revenge he definitely lost a lot of the attention that he could've gotten with Love For Sale. Imo this album was too far from his former fan base tastes (the original neo soul lover, OKP type of listener, ect) so they just stoped caring about him. Of course the album was praised by the critics but this is not really the attention we're talking about here. The Love For Sale and Airtight's Revenge episode are why he lost a lot of attention. And he kind of said "fuck it!" after this episode and got even more weird than he already was (musically).

D'angelo created a movement, stayed coherent with his former sound, succeed in challenging his fan base but not too much. He was always more tamed and smooth than Bilal and he was there before him. Add to that, that Bilal's vocals are weird, that his sense of what sounds good or not is weird, that some of his songs are weird, that the man himself is weird and you have your answer.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
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Wed Dec-24-14 07:54 AM

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159. "Word"
In response to Reply # 143


          

>Add to that, that Bilal's vocals are weird,
>that his sense of what sounds good or not is weird, that some
>of his songs are weird, that the man himself is weird and you
>have your answer.

~
~
~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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funklectic
Member since May 04th 2005
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Tue Dec-23-14 05:39 PM

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144. "RE: Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Does anyone have a link or can provide an upload of Bilal performing Fast Lane on Jay Leno please?
I've been looking everywhere for this performance

  

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Vhien
Member since Aug 22nd 2009
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Tue Dec-23-14 08:03 PM

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149. "RE: Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

LOL

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=10gh8nl&s=3#.VJoQpsAOA

His 'Fast Lane' performance. When I first saw this I thought, "LOL NO WONDER HE DON'T SELL RECORDS!" He was my first solo concert though and a few other gems.

Definitely glad to have him around and performing and recording on the real. (I'm pretty hyped for the album with Adrian Younge. I think he'll benefit from a cinematic score, esp. given his narrative style).

  

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funklectic
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Tue Dec-23-14 08:11 PM

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150. "RE: Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

Thank you so much. I can't wait to get to my PC to see this.

I just remember him hulking out and being simultaneously amazed at how funky and hilarious it was. Also worried about how much coke he must've been doing

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
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Tue Dec-23-14 11:01 PM

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152. "lmao, wow"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

that pretty much sums it up. bilal weird as fuck. love him but yeah

dude was definitely having coke dreams with that performance. dude was harlem shaking and screaming and gettin all bugg-eyed

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Wed Dec-24-14 08:02 AM

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160. "This is even funnier than it was the first time..."
In response to Reply # 149


          

probably because I watched the whole thing this time.
He sounded cool once he stopped doing that extra'd out falsetto, but still being outlandish
as fuck. It's pretty obvious that he wasn't lying when he said he always wanted to be
considered Alternative.

~
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~
~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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jimaveli
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Wed Dec-24-14 09:03 AM

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161. "So..."
In response to Reply # 149
Wed Dec-24-14 09:04 AM by jimaveli

  

          

We're talking about 'meeting people halfway' right? What 'normal' music listener saw this and thought 'man, this sounds great...I'd love to hear more'?

Again, most of the more successful artists that cats bring up when answering 'who are your influenceseses' had to lay low for a while before showing up with their 'fast lane' songs.

And take in mind, I buy anything Bilal comes out with. But that's me. I'm okay with cats taking some liberties since they are artists.

>LOL
>
>http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=10gh8nl&s=3#.VJoQpsAOA
>
>His 'Fast Lane' performance. When I first saw this I thought,
>"LOL NO WONDER HE DON'T SELL RECORDS!" He was my first solo
>concert though and a few other gems.
>
>Definitely glad to have him around and performing and
>recording on the real. (I'm pretty hyped for the album with
>Adrian Younge. I think he'll benefit from a cinematic score,
>esp. given his narrative style).

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Wed Dec-24-14 09:20 AM

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162. "Nobody other than a handful of people on this board remember that shit"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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shockzilla
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Wed Dec-24-14 09:46 AM

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164. "they're also the only people who know bilal."
In response to Reply # 162


          

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Wed Dec-24-14 09:40 AM

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163. "LOL! I remember trying to put my cousin onto Bilal"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

She was asking what was new out that she'd like and I told her my Boy Bilal is on Jay Leno tonight. Watch it. Yep, he lost a sale that night.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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The Wordsmith
Member since Aug 13th 2002
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Thu Dec-25-14 01:27 PM

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173. "LOL!"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          


Since 1976

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Wed Dec-24-14 10:48 PM

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168. "lol... his unorthodox live performances was one of the things"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

that got me to really dig him as an artist..

lol..

I dunno...er'body looks for different stuff.. but back then.....I mean he's still a bomb live performer...but back then he had an unhinged element to him that I really dug, and still do..

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Thu Dec-25-14 10:18 AM

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171. "Also, D'angelo doesn't make anything I consider to be terrible or wtf"
In response to Reply # 0


          

As much as I think Bilal is creative and courageous, he also has songs where I'm like
"cmon son", often BECAUSE of his experimental nature. So, alotta times, it's something
I respect more than I enjoy.

D'angelo will try something new, but he won't jump off the cliff with it. He doesn't hate
tradition enough to throw it out. Whereas Bilal will tell his forefathers "fuck yo couch",
D'angelo will ghost-produce for them and perform the song himself.

In a nutshell, D'angelo doesn't try to reinvent the wheel like Bilal does, and I think that
keeps him from the WTF moments that I have with Bilal. Bilal's new wheels don't roll sometimes, for me.


~
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~
~
Days like this I miss Sha Mecca

  

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Yadgyu
Member since May 31st 2006
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Sat Dec-27-14 08:01 PM

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181. "D Angelo took his shirt off. Case closed."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----
----
----
----
----

GET ON MY LEVEL!

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
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Sat Dec-27-14 08:04 PM

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182. "please direct me to the Bilal album as good as Brown Sugar "
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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ShinobiShaw
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183. "After hearing him numerous times in person before hearing an album"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

back in the Black Lily days

He is a great performer but i'm not a fan of his voice, not a fan of the screaming.

His sound is not as universal as D'aneglo.

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
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double 0
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Wed Dec-31-14 04:58 PM

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184. "RE: Why Bilal doesn't get a fraction of the attention D Angelo gets"
In response to Reply # 0


          

What about Remy Shand!!!

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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J-Elijah
Member since Dec 09th 2009
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Thu Jan-01-15 01:29 AM

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185. "Bilal is the Male "Amel Larrieux"-Bilal's Opera Training Makes Him Amazi..."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jan-01-15 01:44 AM by J-Elijah

          

Bilal & Amel Larrieux are 2 of the best singers of our generation
with amazing vocal ranges (nearing Minnie Riperton) that their more commercially successful peers like Trey Songz and Rihanna would be envious of, but they don't get the accolades nor recognition they deserve. Because of the way the music industry is set up now, singers don't need major record labels to get their music to the people. Bilal is a better singer than D'Angelo because he's an Opera singer/jazz singer. His operatic voice and vocal choices are dynamic. Bilal could just sing acapella and it would mesmerize every listener.

Both Bilal & Amel Larrieux have longevity and artistic integrity and are not afraid to experiment with their sound and musical production. Their eclectic discographies are filled with songs you never hear on the radio. Amel Larrieux came closest to mainstream success when she teamed with producer Bryce Wilson to form Groove Theory; their big radio song "Tell Me" is a classic. Bilal's work with The Roots, Common, & Robert Glasper seems to be his closest to mainstream success. Neither Amel Larrieux nor Bilal have won a Grammy, while lesser skilled singers have won several, really showing the lack of credibility of the Grammy's.

Isn't it amazing how Donny Hathaway and Marvin Gaye only won 1 Grammy each, Minnie Riperton and Frankie Beverly & Maze never won Grammys, but Beyonce, Rihanna, and Usher have won several Grammys?

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
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Thu Jan-01-15 11:18 AM

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186. "RE: Bilal is the Male "Amel Larrieux"-Bilal's Opera Training Makes Him A..."
In response to Reply # 185


  

          

>
>Isn't it amazing how Donny Hathaway and Marvin Gaye only won 1
>Grammy each, Minnie Riperton and Frankie Beverly & Maze never
>won Grammys, but Beyonce, Rihanna, and Usher have won several
>Grammys?

not really amazing

mike jackson is the dividing line....he made black music "popular" in the pop sense of the award

he was the 1st on MTV etc

so after him.... a lot more black artists get grammies

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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J-Elijah
Member since Dec 09th 2009
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Sat Jan-03-15 07:09 PM

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189. "RE: Bilal is the Male "Amel Larrieux"-Bilal's Opera Training Makes Him A..."
In response to Reply # 186


          

>>
>>Isn't it amazing how Donny Hathaway and Marvin Gaye only won
>1
>>Grammy each, Minnie Riperton and Frankie Beverly & Maze
>never
>>won Grammys, but Beyonce, Rihanna, and Usher have won
>several
>>Grammys?
>
>not really amazing
>
>mike jackson is the dividing line....he made black music
>"popular" in the pop sense of the award
>
>he was the 1st on MTV etc
>
>so after him.... a lot more black artists get grammies

The reason why I think it's amazing is though great, Beyonce, Rihanna, and Usher are no where near as excellent as Marvin Gaye, Donny Hathaway, Minnie Riperton, & Frankie Beverly & Maze. I know the music industry has changed, but Beyonce has like 15 or 16 Grammys and Usher & Rihanna have a crazy amount of Grammys too. Rihanna can barely sing. It's like anyone can win a Grammy now. The Recording Industry gives them out like candy. It just really shows how meaningless the Grammy's are.

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
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Thu Jan-01-15 02:22 PM

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187. "Thank you few people are willing to admit this"
In response to Reply # 185


  

          

.

That analogy is on point too and its not ironic that both artist are Philly natives.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Thu Jan-01-15 02:34 PM

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188. "Amel doesn't have the body of work Bilal has..."
In response to Reply # 185


  

          

she's solid...but her song and performance catalog are no where near what Bilal has....

  

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