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Subject: "Black music doesn't need a savior " Previous topic | Next topic
OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
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Fri Dec-12-14 01:56 PM

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"Black music doesn't need a savior "


  

          

It's needs more young talented acts who approach the business as professionals.

And when I say 'black music' now days I'm making no reference to race.. that ship has long sailed.
_________________________________
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Twitter @therealoldpro

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I *am* making reference to race.
Dec 12th 2014
1
Who said I was just talking about white acts?
Dec 12th 2014
2
I originally typed, 'white, Asian, or other...'
Dec 12th 2014
4
      I like this
Dec 12th 2014
9
      Wut????
Dec 13th 2014
37
           (placeholder)
Dec 13th 2014
43
Really though we're talking 2 different things
Dec 12th 2014
5
Always.
Dec 12th 2014
7
That being said:
Dec 12th 2014
12
      Don't think one has much impact on the other
Dec 12th 2014
13
           I'm not talking about message records.
Dec 12th 2014
14
                Don't have time to continue this today but I'd like to hear more about t...
Dec 12th 2014
21
                     No doubt.
Dec 12th 2014
22
                     my take
Dec 13th 2014
38
i often disagree with this argument.
Dec 12th 2014
19
      I didn't say it was genetic... I talked about *community*
Dec 12th 2014
20
           yeah.
Dec 12th 2014
24
what's up man.... hope all is good with you....n/m
Dec 12th 2014
3
Things are great thanks
Dec 12th 2014
8
but to your post...I agree...
Dec 12th 2014
6
So much has changed just in the time I've been away from here
Dec 12th 2014
11
shol dont and wb
Dec 12th 2014
10
I agree
Dec 12th 2014
15
Yep
Dec 12th 2014
16
man....
Dec 12th 2014
17
Have to stop looking to the god of the oppressor first
Dec 12th 2014
23
RE: Have to stop looking to the god of the oppressor first
Dec 12th 2014
29
save your self (c) ....
Dec 12th 2014
31
      white peoples opinion
Dec 13th 2014
39
           fair enough
Dec 13th 2014
40
                RE: fair enough
Dec 13th 2014
41
                     oh nah i know all that already
Dec 13th 2014
42
                     RE: fair enough
Dec 14th 2014
44
It needs greater acceptance of broader expressions of the black conditio...
Dec 12th 2014
18
like-wise for terrence shider.
Dec 12th 2014
32
      nothing says black like maroon 5 covers and street fighter themes
Dec 12th 2014
34
           or monk, or jelly roll morton, or coltrane...
Dec 12th 2014
35
                that was the street fighter theme
Dec 12th 2014
36
Maxx was right Bruno Mars is the closest thing we got.
Dec 12th 2014
25
Really good to see you around these parts holmes!!!
Dec 12th 2014
26
Black music doesn't need the music industry
Dec 12th 2014
27
'Black music doesn't need a REVOLUTION!!!' (c) OP in 1984.
Dec 12th 2014
28
wack music needs a few
Dec 12th 2014
30
the concept of a "savior" i.e. means..
Dec 12th 2014
33
serious, non-snarky question:
Dec 14th 2014
45
      or setting new ones...
Dec 14th 2014
46
its good marketing though
Dec 14th 2014
47
yes it damn does
Dec 14th 2014
48
IMO it needs respect for its rich pass and also to set a standard
Dec 15th 2014
49
it doesn't need a Savior...it needs GOD IN PERSON...
Dec 15th 2014
50
D'Angelo and Theo Parrish released great albums this month
Dec 16th 2014
51
It needs fewer white nerd critics as gatekeepers.
Dec 16th 2014
52
There are plenty with talent and potential
Dec 17th 2014
53

AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Fri Dec-12-14 02:05 PM

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1. "I *am* making reference to race."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>And when I say 'black music' now days I'm making no reference
>to race.. that ship has long sailed.

I'm sorry, I have MAD appreciation for all the young white brothers and sisters today making excellent "black" music, but some things have to come from "the source."

It's like Chris Rock said recently of modern civil rights activists vs. MLK and Malcolm etc... The guys today seem like they're staging a revival while MLK was producing an original play.

We need more "original play" and I think it has to come from within the Black community.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
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Fri Dec-12-14 02:17 PM

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2. "Who said I was just talking about white acts?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

'Black' music today comes in all shades and colors. Bruno doesn't fit into either the white or black camps but when he sets out to make a 'black' record he usually knocks it out the park. Why would I expect anyone to make music that's moving me just based on their race? We're so many generations removed now that a black kid in Philly could be more removed from my music culturally than say a latino or white kid in LA. The talk about this or that being "authentic" is almost always artificial. Give me the music and I'll base my feelings on that and only that.. trying to figure out intentions or motivations is a weird game I have zero interest in.
_________________________________
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Twitter @therealoldpro

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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4. "I originally typed, 'white, Asian, or other...'"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

then I changed it to 'non-black' before settling on "white"

Bottom line: there are certain fundamental aspects of this music that spring from African American culture (and I am not talking about Black African or Caribbean... I mean, American Negro) and I think it's still important to nurture that source so that we don't end up where we ended up with rock.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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OldPro
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Fri Dec-12-14 02:39 PM

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9. "I like this"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

"I think it's still important to nurture that source"

  

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Jakob Hellberg
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Sat Dec-13-14 12:15 AM

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37. "Wut????"
In response to Reply # 4


          

and I think it's still important to nurture that source
>so that we don't end up where we ended up with rock.

Please tell me about all these black *rock* artists. Rock is a direct byproduct of the source you are talking about being nurtured from other perspectives. Rock itself wa4s never abandonded; *rock'n'roll* (read:50's R&B) was nurtured and it resulted in soul, funk etc. rock (tm) is really not part of the same lineage but there was never any "abandoning" going on either-just rock'n'roll/R&B being nurtured from two different perspectives...

I have a hard time understanding what you are trying to say with the above quote...

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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43. "(placeholder)"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

I'll answer your question later, Jakob.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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OldPro
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Fri Dec-12-14 02:34 PM

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5. "Really though we're talking 2 different things"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I'm speaking on a style or styles of music whereas you are talking about music that comes out of a community. I can see your points inside that framework but that becomes more social or political.. which clearly has (or should have) a place. Doesn't assure the sounds they produce are going to be appealing to me. Still comes back to the music itself.

Good to 'see' you though man

Peace

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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7. "Always."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


>Good to 'see' you though man
>
>Peace

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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12. "That being said:"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>I can see
>your points inside that framework but that becomes more social
>or political.. which clearly has (or should have) a place.
>Doesn't assure the sounds they produce are going to be
>appealing to me. Still comes back to the music itself.

"Black music" at its best has always been political.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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OldPro
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13. "Don't think one has much impact on the other"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

If you can bring it all together hell yeah.. but there are plenty of message records that come up short when compared to those of a more vapid nature.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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14. "I'm not talking about message records."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

For instance, Motown steered clear of overt messages and political stances during its colden age, but Motown was still fiercely political.

The Cosby Show never addressed racism, police brutality or any other hot-button political issues, but it was one of the most political expression of black pop culture during the 80s.

Early 80s R&B (or "boogie") was never really saying anything lyrically, but musically it WAS political.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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OldPro
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Fri Dec-12-14 04:07 PM

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21. "Don't have time to continue this today but I'd like to hear more about t..."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

"Early 80s R&B (or "boogie") was never really saying anything lyrically, but musically it WAS political."

I'll check back next week

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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22. "No doubt."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

I'll be here (and I haven't been much, of late)

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Dr Claw
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Sat Dec-13-14 01:17 AM

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38. "my take"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

because I agree with what I *think* KAP Dogg is saying here...

in those eras especially, where a sort of "overt" blackness was suppressed in the mainstream of America (segregationist 1950s, and the 1950s fetishism that ran rampant in the Reagan era), daring to be black w/o looking over your shoulder was the same as raising your closed fist to the sky.

While all "boogie" music then (and especially now) wasn't made by Black people per se, that musical form is certainly "Black", and choosing that path in that era definitely was defiant IMO.

it's kind of like what you've said about being against MTV and "the other side of the radio" back in the '80s...

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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19. "i often disagree with this argument. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

i don't think it's a Black thing that folks back in the day made good Black music.
i always hate reading ppl like Keith Richards talk about their favorite blues artists.

they make it sound as if Black suffering made those guys great,
whereas he had to practice in order to be able to play Black music convincingly.

I feel that had a white child grew up in a Black environment, hearing Black songs,
learning from Black mentors, their sound would be...

well, Black.


i don't think there is something inherent in Black ppl's DNA that creates soul.

well, maybe i should back up.
because being Black DOES put you in a unique situation that
will influence a part of your music. so maybe there's something to the Race element.

but i typically don't like the way ppl say it.
(not that you were saying it in the way i don't like.)

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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20. "I didn't say it was genetic... I talked about *community*"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

ie it's social

I actually wanted to say something about how "coming from the community" could also include a white kid who grew up in or near "the hood" but I thought that might be getting ahead of myself.

I'm not suggesting that great Black music is something that emerges spontaneously from Black people just because they're Black... but it's ridiculous to deny that there are distinct social ingredients that make the music from a particular social context what it is.

So yeah... black musicians have to work hard and practice.

The conservatory-trained cellist works hard and practices too... maybe even more than the average Black blues player.

But the average conservatory-trained cellist couldn't play the blues with feeling even if you wrote it down on the sheet music for him. And that has nothing to do with how much he has or hasn't experienced actual suffering in his lifetime.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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24. "yeah. "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

i agree.

  

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Warren Coolidge
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3. "what's up man.... hope all is good with you....n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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OldPro
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8. "Things are great thanks"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Hope everything been cool with you and yours

  

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Warren Coolidge
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6. "but to your post...I agree..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't think that the music industry is set up today for a so-called Black music savior...

so I don't think it's possible that could happen..


and yes we do need more young innovative..and talented cats doing things in the game..... there are some out there today, but it would be nice if some could break through into the so-called mainstream so that Black music could have a place higher in popular culture than the current minstrel show, and reality tv fodder it has become today in the mainstream.

  

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OldPro
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11. "So much has changed just in the time I've been away from here"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

The idea of this or that act being 'mainstream' doesn't even cross my mind any more. More and more people are creating their own 'streams' and rejecting the limited choice methods we all grew up with. You and Kap used to argue a lot about the idea of a modern day 'chitlin circuit'... well over the last couple years I've seen more acts than I can count carve out a living by recording to promote, then going out and working for their check. It's not putting them on the mega star level or anything but then not many in the 'mainstream' are getting paid like that either.. for every Beyonce there are dozens and dozens of signed acts struggling. More and more wise up every day to the fact the old model only benefits the very few at the top.. it's a lot like the rest of this country's economy when you think about it.

  

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rdhull
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10. "shol dont and wb"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Dr Claw
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15. "I agree"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>It's needs more young talented acts who approach the business
>as professionals.

a "savior" now is exactly what the industry would want... more pigeonholing

  

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OldPro
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16. "Yep"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          


>a "savior" now is exactly what the industry would want... more
>pigeonholing

Cats are finally figuring out a way to work outside the old model.. a 'savior' is a way to promote and prop up the old ways.

  

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howardlloyd
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Fri Dec-12-14 03:19 PM

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17. "man...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

black people need a savior

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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OldPro
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23. "Have to stop looking to the god of the oppressor first"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

But that's a whole other topic

  

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howardlloyd
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29. "RE: Have to stop looking to the god of the oppressor first"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

dont know where that came from but

alrighty

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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phlipout
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31. "save your self (c) .... "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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howardlloyd
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39. "white peoples opinion "
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

dont count in such matters

bug off

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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phlipout
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40. "fair enough "
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

still can't wrap my 6 ounces around god needing a savior tho

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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howardlloyd
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41. "RE: fair enough "
In response to Reply # 40
Sat Dec-13-14 09:10 AM by howardlloyd

  

          

because you can't understand the lessons

because your paradigm is Eurocentric

and as follows your ontology, epistemology, nature of logic (diunital vs dichotomous) and axiology differ

but u won't understand any of that

so

bug off

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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phlipout
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Sat Dec-13-14 09:23 AM

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42. "oh nah i know all that already"
In response to Reply # 41
Sat Dec-13-14 09:28 AM by phlipout

  

          

man that knows he knows something knows he knows nothing at all

and i already said i couldn't wrap my mind around it before you came with the shaming techniques

i'm late for coffee at the Country Club & gotta get a refill on my depression meds tho so i'll holla lol

said the man from a different species

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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phlipout
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44. "RE: fair enough "
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2912062&mesg_id=2912062&page=#2912495

whiteman musta wrote these liners

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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imcvspl
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18. "It needs greater acceptance of broader expressions of the black conditio..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Matana Roberts is one of the most important Black musicians of our time yet remains a virtual unknown in the black community.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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spare_tire
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Fri Dec-12-14 10:03 PM

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32. "like-wise for terrence shider."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

<--- NEVER FORGET THE 2000's.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42204 posts
Fri Dec-12-14 10:12 PM

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34. "nothing says black like maroon 5 covers and street fighter themes"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

i think dude is talented mind you. but i digress...

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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spare_tire
Member since Nov 24th 2014
131 posts
Fri Dec-12-14 10:17 PM

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35. "or monk, or jelly roll morton, or coltrane..."
In response to Reply # 34
Fri Dec-12-14 10:17 PM by spare_tire

  

          

or any song he's requested to play on his youtube channel and flawlessly replaying it with his own phrasing from merely one listen on his smartphone.

<--- NEVER FORGET THE 2000's.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42204 posts
Fri Dec-12-14 10:37 PM

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36. "that was the street fighter theme"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

>flawlessly replaying it with his own phrasing from merely one
>listen on his smartphone.

but i'll play along. how is terrence getting down in his local keyboard shop an expression of the black condition?

talented yes. black yes. but translate that to a modern expression of the black condition vis a vis his music not using it to compare and contrast with other black artists.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
1702 posts
Fri Dec-12-14 04:50 PM

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25. "Maxx was right Bruno Mars is the closest thing we got."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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revolution75
Member since May 07th 2003
3372 posts
Fri Dec-12-14 04:51 PM

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26. "Really good to see you around these parts holmes!!!"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Dec-12-14 05:00 PM by revolution75

  

          

I agree..black music doesn't need a savior
Black music (soul/r&b) needs to focus on black music
However it's virtually impossible when these acts are forced to dance whatever dance sir nose and the noses (execs) tell them to.

Those days are over and they should be
Yet most of their audience still rely on archaic methods of hearing the music like radio or satellite radio.
There's a new way to do it while respecting the foundation and moving forward.

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15706 posts
Fri Dec-12-14 06:42 PM

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27. "Black music doesn't need the music industry"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Fri Dec-12-14 06:45 PM

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28. "'Black music doesn't need a REVOLUTION!!!' (c) OP in 1984."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

^^ see what i did there?

fuck you.

  

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phlipout
Member since Nov 11th 2014
309 posts
Fri Dec-12-14 09:48 PM

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30. "wack music needs a few"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*************************
your ERA never low enough

  

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spare_tire
Member since Nov 24th 2014
131 posts
Fri Dec-12-14 10:07 PM

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33. "the concept of a "savior" i.e. means.."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Dec-12-14 10:09 PM by spare_tire

  

          

someone who makes music and operates abiding to standards which were abandoned by Black musical acts.

i touched on this concept in my "how do we go about re-introducing lost dimensions into Black music" post in 2012:

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_mesg&forum=5&topic_id=2686224&mesg_id=2686224&page=

<--- NEVER FORGET THE 2000's.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 11:26 AM

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45. "serious, non-snarky question:"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

but wouldn't you say a savior of music doesn't just "abide" by musical standards?
if they are just abiding by the standards, they can't be a savior.

saviors may come from a TRADITION of the greats,
but they have to break the rules and make new ones.

ie; James Brown. Pharell. MAYBE d'angelo's 2nd album, etc.
(i said maybe D'angelo b/c he is not necessarily an innovator, but he may have been one.)

  

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spare_tire
Member since Nov 24th 2014
131 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 11:46 AM

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46. "or setting new ones..."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

but there hasn't been a new act in Black music who set new precedents in greatness (in terms of talent) in decades.

<--- NEVER FORGET THE 2000's.

  

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GumDrops
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Sun Dec-14-14 03:01 PM

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47. "its good marketing though"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and taps into the idea, that is as old as black american music itself, that the bulk of the music is mindless and apolitical and what black music/musicians need to do more of is get mad, get political and Speak About Whats Really Going On. Enter the lone musician willing to take a stand and be different and do what more of his peers should be doing: d'angelo.

  

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fire
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111370 posts
Sun Dec-14-14 06:46 PM

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48. "yes it damn does "
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Mon Dec-15-14 05:44 AM

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49. "IMO it needs respect for its rich pass and also to set a standard"
In response to Reply # 0


          

you can be mainstream and still have a edge and do your thing.

Michael Jackson took the best of yesteryear and today and made it his own and never stopped aspiring for greatness. you gotta have that attitude and as you said it best stay professional
and also respect the craft, gift and the time and the audience whom embraces you.

the music and its voices prior must always be respected and in time may the same be bestowed unto you as well.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Warren Coolidge
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41991 posts
Mon Dec-15-14 11:41 PM

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50. "it doesn't need a Savior...it needs GOD IN PERSON..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Farrakhan said that at a Saviors day years ago..

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16417 posts
Tue Dec-16-14 01:02 AM

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51. "D'Angelo and Theo Parrish released great albums this month"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'll take that for now.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic on Common

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52915 posts
Tue Dec-16-14 01:05 AM

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52. "It needs fewer white nerd critics as gatekeepers. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


That's really the problem


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Deacon Blues
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Wed Dec-17-14 07:52 PM

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53. "There are plenty with talent and potential "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



They just need a better support and development structure

dude

  

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