He's one of only a small handful of 90's emcees still worth checking for. His music still sounds current and vital. I don't want you to sit down and actually rank him, but at some point we're going to have to count him among the greats.

these last three years have done wonders for him and Killer Mike...both will probably be in my top 25 by the time their run together is over...

He's definitely in my Top 15 producers of all-time. And don't get it twisted, he's one off favorite emcees as well.

www.twitter.com/seandammit

he's severely underrated as a rapper though
people saying killer mike made him better are tripping
he's always been nice

and if i'm honest near my top 5

top 30ish as a rapper

I grew up with LP. I was in my teens in the LATE 90s, not the 80s or early 90s. at some point folk gunna have to reconcile that these list are highly dependent on when folks really got into shit

our lists SHOULD be very different

El is there for me, this shit speaks for itself:
Funcrusher
Little Johnny In the Hospital
Cold Vein
FanDam (which is his weakest work IMO)
ISWYD
Megamixxx 3
Cancer 4 Cure
RAP Music
RTJ
RTJ2
the remixes of Beiber, Mars Volta, Kidz In The Hall, etc
the beats he laced Aesop, Mr. Lif, and other Def Jukies with

there is not one long form dud in there

So he's on the honorable mention list. He has a cult following and thanks to douche music web sites he getting a bigger buzz. Really El-P don't have no Off The Books or My World.

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

also you have turrbl taste in music. like some of the worst on this site, near melanon and bammer

yet, near every album that i listed above, has and will continue to be, some of the most critically acclaimed records 'til we stop documenting.

and you'll still be the fool who likes Mac Miller

lmao


bahahahahahahahahahaha



just stop homie. that's absurd.

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

you're prob just not a fine. and that's cool

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

but anyone with any knowledge of the genre will tell you they're among the greats.

*Debating a critically acclaimed underground producer they don't like*
"It's about the hits!"

*Debating a popular producer they don't like*
"It's about the critical acclaim"


>but anyone with any knowledge of the genre will tell you
>they're among the greats.

who has el-p influenced? mac miller + mike finito?

edit: i say that as a fan of el-p who owns nearly every def jux release and still wears an in-pretty-good-condition 13-year old cannibal ox t-shirt out in public on a semi-regular basis. el hasn't had much of an impact on pop or rap culture despite his tremendous career. i think that disqualifies him from being considered one of the greats

Lol

too funny...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

<--- Big Baller World Order

Top 20 MC, top 10 producer easy, and approaching top 5 as a producer….innovative, unique, and his progressive drive is what I like to see/appreciate in an artist….has been able to maintain quality output of material since the 90's, which we can't say about MOST of the artists that came from the 90's….

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

I don't know. I love El-P but it's easier being the underdog. He's def not in my top 20. I'll have to see where I would place him beyond that. He's def the greatest rap artist post 2000 IMO. Him & Ye.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

>He's one of only a small handful of 90's emcees still worth
>checking for. His music still sounds current and vital. I
>don't want you to sit down and actually rank him, but at some
>point we're going to have to count him among the greats.

He has rapping talent but what he does on the mic is only entertaining in moderation.

...Top 50 Hip Hop producer? Name 10 better bro...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

>...Top 50 Hip Hop producer? Name 10 better bro...

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

anything in the grander context of the acclaim his work gets and a generation of a particular type of "hip hop" head that grew up with his work

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

in no order

rza
primo
dre
pete rock
alchemist
large pro
kno
quik
mannie fresh
dj muggs
kanye
marley marl
beatminerz
havoc
neptunes
timbo
just blaze
erick sermon
beatnuts
madlib

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

No to these….

Manny Fresh-laughable….
Kno-just no
DJ Muggs-yeah, duke is nice, but no…
Havoc-ain't made consistent hot shit in YEARS…no…recent weakness takes away from past greatness…
Kanye-Arguable, but no…matter of fact, kinda bit EL's drums recently…
Quik-No
Beatminerz-not enough work to even be in the conversation, though I love these cats…no…
Neptunez-"a wack nigga rhymin kills a raw beat"
Beatnuts-see Beatminerz…no


rza
primo
dre
pete rock
alchemist
large pro
kno
quik
mannie fresh
dj muggs
kanye
marley marl
beatminerz
havoc
neptunes
timbo
just blaze
erick sermon
beatnuts
madlib

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

you haven't actually explored his discography, or for whatever reason he's not your thing.

he's been ridiculously prolific for the past 14 years straight, has explored a ton of different sounds and styles from samples/synths/live instruments, an album with singers, collaborated with literally every type of rapper, gritty east coast stuff to southern soul to dark/abstract stuff, while all keeping it very much his own style

Will Rap For Food
SouthernUnderground
A Piece Of Strange
Dirty Acres
Oneirology
Death Is Silent
Built To Fade
Machetevision
Strange Journey Vol. 1
Strange Journey Vol. 2
Strange Journey Vol. 3
Sloppy Seconds Vol. 2
The White Albulum
The Winterfire EP with Grouch & Eligh

That's 14 projects, plus at least 1-2 albums worth of miscellaneous production over the years

At least listen to the run of APOS - Oneirology before dismissing him

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

hip hop publications, but in reality their worldwide fanbase is about as big as El-P
Youtube: CL have multiple videos with over a million views, el-p's biggest videos have 1.5M, not a world of difference
Last.fm: CL actually have 100K MORE listeners than El-P
etc.

…Not dissing dude at all, have heard a lot of his stuff…talented, but back to the original point…To me, he ain't seeing someone as prolific as EL-P...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

>in no order
>
>rza
>primo
>dre
>pete rock

Of course

>alchemist

El-P and Alc are in the same league in my opinion but one could argue El-P has more classic full albums and has been more innovative than Alc so this could go either way.

>large pro

Ok

>kno

I could argue he is more musically talented but he hasn't had the same career as el-p by any means.

>quik

Yes

>mannie fresh

Fuck no. I know its cool to name drop Mannie Fresh in attempts to like some southern shit but Cash Money was ALWAYS trash. And I like some of his beats but come on man...he was the start of synth bus it with Swizz. Should've said ONP.

>dj muggs

Ok...same league to me. I love Muggs but he isn't a sure shot over El-P.

>kanye

I guess...I don't think he's better though. Go listen to ISWYD again.

>marley marl

Of course the classic original so we have to name him but I could argue he isn't a better producer.

>beatminerz

I love the beatminerz but they have always been serviceable to me. Classic records like Dah Shinin' but their production was never the star of the show for me. It was the overall package and style. I would never think "oh shit I need a beatminerz joint for my album in the same sense as the first 4 on this list.

>havoc

No...overrated as fuck and Q-Tip produced Infamous.

>neptunes

I'll give you this...very different styles.

>timbo

Same as Neptunes

>just blaze

Not nearly as prolific and has never produced an entire album so no.

>erick sermon

Ok.

>beatnuts

Same league to me

>madlib

Same league to me.

And I'll add on that Dilla is better.

El-P to me is right outside that top level. There are producers like Buckwild and Just Blaze who are as good as El-P to me but lose out for not having those full albums.

I know his style can be grating and maybe an acquired taste but there's no way he can be overlooked at this point. He has a lengthy track record and has been pretty prolific. Acting like he's average at best is why people are taking you as a joke.

>>in no order
>>
>>rza
>>primo
>>dre
>>pete rock
>
>Of course
>
>>alchemist
>
>El-P and Alc are in the same league in my opinion but one
>could argue El-P has more classic full albums and has been
>more innovative than Alc so this could go either way.



no it cant. Alc has produced way more notable songs and hip hop classics than El P.


>>large pro
>
>Ok
>
>>kno

>I could argue he is more musically talented but he hasn't had
>the same career as el-p by any means.

his sound is much more diverse and wide ranging.

>>quik
>
>Yes
>
>>mannie fresh
>
>Fuck no. I know its cool to name drop Mannie Fresh in
>attempts to like some southern shit but Cash Money was ALWAYS
>trash. And I like some of his beats but come on man...he was
>the start of synth bus it with Swizz. Should've said ONP.


he's my least favorite on this list and he's STILL produced better albums than El P.


>>dj muggs
>
>Ok...same league to me. I love Muggs but he isn't a sure shot
>over El-P.


wow this place is incredible.


>>kanye
>
>I guess...I don't think he's better though. Go listen to
>ISWYD again.


smh


>>marley marl

>Of course the classic original so we have to name him but I
>could argue he isn't a better producer.


jesus christ.


>>beatminerz
>
>I love the beatminerz but they have always been serviceable to
>me. Classic records like Dah Shinin' but their production was
>never the star of the show for me. It was the overall package
>and style. I would never think "oh shit I need a beatminerz
>joint for my album in the same sense as the first 4 on this
>list

smh


>>havoc
>
>No...overrated as fuck and Q-Tip produced Infamous.


lol wrong and wrong. even if we ignore the infamous (lol) hell on earth is 100000000x better than anything El P ever touched.



>>neptunes
>
>I'll give you this...very different styles.


all these producers have different styles from El - P. and better ones.


>
>>timbo
>
>Same as Neptunes



>>just blaze
>
>Not nearly as prolific and has never produced an entire album
>so no.

Just Blaze isnt as prolific as El-P? Is this real life?



>>erick sermon
>
>Ok.
>
>>beatnuts
>
>Same league to me

smh

>
>>madlib

smh and hes wildly overrated here in the lesson but his catalog shits on el p's as well.


>And I'll add on that Dilla is better.

I could have swore I typed Dilla, and yes. Dilla is 10000x light years better

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

the issue here is that YOU don't like El-P's style .

that is all.

have a good day.

I have almost every single one of his albums.

Funcrusher Plus and The Cold Vein are personal classics.


that said, he still isnt on the level of all the producers I listed.


have a good weekend!

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

I can't argue with putting any of those 20 names above him.

although if you're putting any weight on discography, just blaze really needs to produce a full album...i know he did more than half of a freeway album and almost all of a saigon album, but i'd probably put the best fully produced album by everyone on your list over the saigon album.

>in no order
>
>rza
yes and not since 98

>primo
yes and not since 98

>dre
yes and not since 95

>pete rock
maybe, def understand why MOST folk have Pete over El. not me though

>alchemist
no

>large pro
no

>kno
LOFL. sit down

>quik
no

>mannie fresh
no

>dj muggs
no, but Muggs my dude

>kanye
push?

>marley marl
yes

>beatminerz
no

>havoc
no

>neptunes
yes

>timbo
yes

>just blaze
no, name one top to bottom just classic

>erick sermon
no

>beatnuts
no

>madlib
yes

>>pete rock
>maybe, def understand why MOST folk have Pete over El. not me
>though

>>large pro
>no

>>quik
>no
>

>>kanye
>push?

>>havoc
>no
>

>>erick sermon
>no
>
>>beatnuts
>no
>



this is hip hop bizarro world right here

I'm pretty sure el would laugh over sermon, pro, pete and beatniks

thats just batshit crazy

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

>>pete rock
>maybe, def understand why MOST folk have Pete over El. not me
>though

.....


>>alchemist
>no

smh

>>large pro
>no

smh x 2

>>kno
>LOFL. sit down

no. people in the know know kno better.

>>quik
>no

smh x 3

>>mannie fresh
>no


smh x 4


>>dj muggs
>no, but Muggs my dude

smh x 5

>>kanye
>push?

smh x 6

>>beatminerz
>no

smh x 7

>>havoc
>no

smh x 8



>>just blaze
>no, name one top to bottom just classic

we're going by full albums produced or overall body of work?

the former is an unfair criteria unless just blaze has a rapping nom de guerre that im unfamiliar with.

if we're going by the latter, just blaze wins.


>>erick sermon
>no

smh x 9


>>beatnuts
>no

smh x 10

>>madlib
>yes
>

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

And it ain't even close.

.

>>>pete rock
>>maybe, def understand why MOST folk have Pete over El. not
>me
>>though
>
>.....

yup, cry
>
>>>alchemist
>>no
>
>smh
>
WE BOTH love Al. he been the best since 2012 IMO. right now. he and el neck and neck

>>>large pro
>>no
>
>smh x 2
>
Breaking Atoms, and...

>>>kno
>>LOFL. sit down
>
>no. people in the know know kno better.
no one believes you

>
>>>quik
>>no
>
you don't listen to Quik bruh, stop lying

>smh x 3
>
>>>mannie fresh
>>no
>
>smh X 4
>
Manny is the man. I don't listen to him over El. like ever
>>>dj muggs

>>no, but Muggs my dude
>
>smh x 5
you couldn't rap one Cypress Hill Lyric
>
>>>kanye
>>push?
>
>smh x 6
go check the 808s post in GD. Ye is very high regard for me

>>>beatminerz
>>no
>
>smh x 7

I bet you don't even own Da Storm trying to claim how much you love BTz
>
>>>havoc
>>no
>
>smh x 8
you haven't cared about a Havoc beat since, I'll let you say it

>>>just blaze
>>no, name one top to bottom just classic
>
>we're going by full albums produced or overall body of work?
>
>the former is an unfair criteria unless just blaze has a
>rapping nom de guerre that im unfamiliar with.
>
>if we're going by the latter, just blaze wins.
>
that's fair, and I still rock El over Blaze and Blaze got them BANGERS
>
>>>erick sermon
>>no
>
>smh x 9
>
you don't own one EPMD album. stop lyin
>
>>>beatnuts
>>no
>
funny you weren't in that Street Level post early this year, but you supposedly love the Beatnuts


now go back and read JF's post and see what he was talking about. El put in that work, yall mad, cause he white I guess, and it doesn't diminish those I hold him over. outside of Kno, these are all first ballot HOF producers.

>>>>pete rock
>>>maybe, def understand why MOST folk have Pete over El. not
>>me
>>>though
>>
>>.....
>
>yup, cry


no one crying here. im just laughing/shaking my head in disbelief


>>>>alchemist
>>>no
>>
>>smh
>>
>WE BOTH love Al. he been the best since 2012 IMO. right now.
>he and el neck and neck

nowhere ever in their careers have they been neck and neck in terms of BEATS. El-P is the better white "rap a bunch of random words together" MC though.


>>>>large pro
>>>no
>>
>>smh x 2
>>
>Breaking Atoms, and...
>
>>>>kno
>>>LOFL. sit down
>>
>>no. people in the know know kno better.
>no one believes you
>
>>
>>>>quik
>>>no
>>
>you don't listen to Quik bruh, stop lying

i mean whats your point? i come back and say YES I DO!!!!

is this where i take a screen shot of my phone and you pictures of the album art?


is this the level of discourse here in the lesson?


>>smh x 3
>>
>>>>mannie fresh
>>>no
>>
>>smh X 4
>>
>Manny is the man. I don't listen to him over El. like ever
>>>>dj muggs
>
>>>no, but Muggs my dude
>>
>>smh x 5
>you couldn't rap one Cypress Hill Lyric

again, been a fan of cypress hill ever since I was in 8th grade.

but sure, carry on.



>>>>kanye
>>>push?
>>
>>smh x 6
>go check the 808s post in GD. Ye is very high regard for me


808 was dogshit, and i would never set foot in that post.


>
>>>>beatminerz
>>>no
>>
>>smh x 7
>
>I bet you don't even own Da Storm trying to claim how much you
>love BTz


*yawn* is this what you're left with?




>>>>havoc
>>>no
>>
>>smh x 8
>you haven't cared about a Havoc beat since, I'll let you say
>it


since 13, and 13 reloaded.


>>>>just blaze
>>>no, name one top to bottom just classic
>>
>>we're going by full albums produced or overall body of work?
>>
>>the former is an unfair criteria unless just blaze has a
>>rapping nom de guerre that im unfamiliar with.
>>
>>if we're going by the latter, just blaze wins.
>>
>that's fair, and I still rock El over Blaze and Blaze got them
>BANGERS
>>
>>>>erick sermon
>>>no
>>
>>smh x 9
>>
>you don't own one EPMD album. stop lyin

oh. ok or any redman albums or any def squad albums or...


you must be new around here bc my crates are DEEP.


>>>>beatnuts
>>>no
>>
>funny you weren't in that Street Level post early this year,
>but you supposedly love the Beatnuts


i dont lamp in the lesson as much as i used to because of the ridiculousness of this post.


my bad if i missed the lone beatnuts post of the year


>now go back and read JF's post and see what he was talking
>about. El put in that work, yall mad, cause he white I guess,
>and it doesn't diminish those I hold him over. outside of Kno,
>these are all first ballot HOF producers.


put in work on company flow and can ox...then was garbage until RTJ/Killer Mike came around

fantastic damage and ill sleep when...are meh

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

…is a classic…innovative, dense, creates a mood, lyrical, storytelling….everything I respect from an artistic standpoint, kept the essence of Hip Hop but still pushed boundaries….to each there own my man…One...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

El-P has two fully produced critically adored albums that were not his rapping projects.

It would be dishonest to imply El P has only produced full albums for himself.

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

Do you breathe better with only Nas' dick in your mouth?

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

I am a huge fan of his emceeing, but I can see people debating that matter.

But this:

Funcrusher
Cold Vein
Fan Dam
ISWYD
Talk to you soon, and have a great weekend.
C4C
Rap Music
RTJ 1 & 2

Also his work on I Phantom/Mo Mega, Hells Winter/Depart From Me, plus and his remix work.

Equals top 5 to me as a producer.

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

I don't have a number for El-P but it's not up with the greats or anything. I don't even see him above 9th Wonder or Black Milk so he has ways to go.

I can dig if you don't like his sound though

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

>I can dig if you don't like his sound though

We can argue styles and techniques, but 9th changed the game on an underground level, has critical acclaim, AND has had some commercial success to go with it. El only has the first two...

fuck all that, it's about the music…9th ain't seeing EL in any shape or form, honestly, thats laughable to me….Peace though, and your opinion is yours….

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

the listening doesn't even, nevermind

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

Crazy talk...but it's cool...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

RTJ is selling out every venue they play in AND moving merchandise.

Fans just raised a budget OUT OF THEIR OWN pockets just to hear that shit remixed with cat noises.

RTJ is making more money than you think.

His production is repetitive as hell to me

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

>His production is repetitive as hell to me

changed the game as a group. I mean you're a charter member under another name (I think), you should remember the hordes of Soundclick era soul sample beatmakers that popped up after Little Brother started making waves.

4 Better or 4 Worse

For producers he is easily in my top 20, for rappers probably top 25-35ish

at this moment he is my favorite rapper probably

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

I like dude, but top 10?

And if cats are putting him on Pete Rock/Dre/Primo/RZA level? Nah

I'm with Guru on this one

Rza
Kanye
El-P

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

My 3….

Q-Tip
Oddisee
EL-P

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

man, i better revisit his stuff! what do you recommend?

btw, i can definitely see q-tip being up there too. good pick. he'd be around 4-5 for me.

Happy 50th D’Angelo: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/track/d-50

I wouldn't put him in my top 10 producers of all time but that next level right below that. He's on a great run and I would say he's my current favorite producer right now.

....even though he's forever going to be stuck in the "weird" rap category

< Live Mixshow - Thurs 11PM/EST >
https://twitch.tv/djchiefone

----Mixtape Archives-----
https://soundcloud.com/djchiefone

I disagree...It's a style of rhyming that is all his own, but obviously influenced by the pioneers...cat has the brag ish, storytelling, slanguage, and even is switching up his flow now...creative, original, concepts and willing to go outside the box/go against the grain...everything I respect about a true "artist"...

this right here is master level ish...and the beat, forgetaboutit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgR3MLGn43Q

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

...just stating the reaction i've always got from people when i mention him among the greats

...He also breaks down ish lovely here too...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9NgwcnIt9Q

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

Yes...

Integrity is the Cornerstone of Artistry...

A lot of people didn't even check for him until he started fuckin with El.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

-------------------
I wanna go to where the martyrs went
the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...

so it's almost pointless to answer IMO. At this point though, I'm curious how much of his work with Killer Mike will influence El-P when he eventually drops his solo material. Will be interesting to compare him post-RTJ.


To be clear, Cancer 4 Cure came about before he started to with Killer Mike for R.A.P. Music, right?


And to answer your question, I think Killer Mike is better, but arguing is moot because it depends what you like to for as a listener.

>And to answer your question, I think Killer Mike is better,
>but arguing is moot because it depends what you like to for as
>a listener.

That's the easy way out. It always depends on what you like. You can say that about any debate. Why debate at all? I dig El but he's not better than Mike as an emcee. If people get past the southern drawl and really listen to Mike, they'd realize how dope he is.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

>>And to answer your question, I think Killer Mike is better,
>>but arguing is moot because it depends what you like to for
>as
>>a listener.
>
>That's the easy way out. It always depends on what you like.
>You can say that about any debate. Why debate at all? I dig El
>but he's not better than Mike as an emcee. If people get past
>the southern drawl and really listen to Mike, they'd realize
>how dope he is.
>


I wasn't coming from a place of disrespect or being overly dismissive. My original point is just how I view arguing in general; I only do it if is over something that is of high value to me or if I stand to gain something for making engaging in said argument. Debating with someone over their respective musical tastes is something I think is a waste of time and energy.