what do you attribute to record sales dropping so significantly every year in the 10's?

Poll result (23 votes) rampant bootlegging (14 votes) Vote substandard quality material (9 votes) Vote

high speed internet around 2001 made it extremely easy to do. Yet...most folks still bought the actual CD's back then.

I feel like it was more confusing, and still not as common to download albums. You couldn't just Google "Get rich ZIP"...download the whole album in two minutes, and throw it on your iPod/Flash drive. We forget that it even took 20 minutes to burn CD's, and if we didn't have high speed, it was still taking 45 minutes per song download. I think high speed became common around 2003-2004, and that's when the decline for real started to kick in.

I did believe that Dre 2001 never went #1 because of bootlegging, though. Or maybe that was my bias

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

i truly believe people just don't give a shit.

i mean adele - 21 went 11x platinum 2 years ago.

was it really THAT important an album or just genuinely popular while running unopposed?

I'm asking because I have no idea but it seems logical to me, based on the type of music she makes.

nah.. EVERYONE bought it...

Young, young adult, middle aged, old...

I could buy it for my dad or a parent could buy it for their daughter and both would enjoy..

That's why she is the last to sell so much..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

Now, it's as simple as downloading it and throwing it on the iPod/Flash drive, vs people buying and burning CD's.

People still listen to the same amount of new music, especially the youth. But along with the fact that many great projects are put out for free now...the access to downloading full albums is that much easier.

It was nearly impossible 12 years ago to go to a site with a basic www.FreeAlbums.com type name, and not have to sign up or anything...just find an album and download. There were some Geocities type of sites, but even those weren't as easy to find or access...and SOOOOON as the RIAA or someone found out, they snatched them down.

Plus, iTunes making it so easy to spend $1 just to get a song you like, vs even having to buy the entire album. We see that singles have been completely erased and pointless to be placed on shelves.

And certain artists have still sold, even looking at Kendrick. It's just a wide gap now...feels like either you sell a whole whole lot, or nothing at all.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

No Youtube option?

Itunes option?

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

in fact the same goes for youtube nowadays as dubious as that may be.

Yes.. but when people say "record sales" they are talking about albums..

Now digital single sales are also going down as well... as streaming becomes the dominant form of consumption..

the reality is people are listening.. A LOT

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Yes.. but when people say "record sales" they are talking
>about albums..
>
>Now digital single sales are also going down as well... as
>streaming becomes the dominant form of consumption..
>
>the reality is people are listening.. A LOT

The entire model of how people think about music consumption has changed... the audience is more interested in access than ownership.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

>The entire model of how people think about music consumption
>has changed... the audience is more interested in access than
>ownership.

yet, adele sold 30m records 2 years ago.

But it was also released Feb 2011

Spotify came to US in July and definitely wasn't the "norm" yet...

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

which they have been able to do for literally 15 years at this point.

some shitty streaming service is not eating up any of the riaa market.

the only competition spotify poses is to youtube.

But streaming doesn't. So I have found myself streaming more often than I did years ago bc I've now filled 4 hard drives with various files since 2003 and I'm over it.

fuck you.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

fuck you.

LETS STREAM COKE(AINE)

im subscribed to a gang of playlists, that somehow dont eat up my hard drive AND i can listen to "offline"? my cds collecting dust & im ok w/ that


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

the modern consumer is a lot more particular about what they go to the trouble of downloading.

personally, i am old(-school) so I prefer to have the copy on my hard drive, but I have to admit that there is a certain freedom in knowing that you can access the music at any time, from any place (to an extent).

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

>the modern consumer is a lot more particular about what they
>go to the trouble of downloading.

don't agree when you consider most people have 60gb of space on their PHONE.
a 1tb hdd will only run you $50-100 bucks.

hd space is not that hot a commodity.

And this phone is full. I am not buying more storage space. Instead I stream and only download what's crucial.

fuck you.

are you not indirectly proving that today's material is "non-essential"?

I have changed the way I consume music bc of my concern about eating up valuable storage space not bc of a change in quality of new music. Technology has rendered me able to access music without downloading it. If I couldn't do that I'd download more often. Like when I couldn't buy downloads or stream I bought physical copies.

fuck you.

i can stream on my phone and i can use satellite radio in my car. but i don't always want to eat up data on my phone and sometimes i'm in a car w/o satellite radio and so that's why i have filled the phone w/mp3 files i've downloaded.

fuck you.

suffice to say - if today's music was truly considered "essential" to you then there would likely be actual files of it on your mp3 player...

Why do you need to have all things essential accessible at all times?

If you are driving.. you can stream..

If you are home or work.. you can stream..

The only place that you cant stream is the subway and/or a plane and you can save spotify playlists to your phone anyway for offline access..

So why do I need to have everything I like downloaded somewhere...

Now on the random occasion I want to sit down an play some vinyl.. then yes it's dope to have it.. otherwise.. stream

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

but i think this tangent came up with people suggesting that all people do is stream now and hd space is a valuable resource.

it's a) not a value resource and b) still widely utilized by people when they need portable copies of music.

my interjection stemmed fro that less than 2 years ago an album went diamond in the usa.
i remember in 2004 (pre-stream) - when "confessions" went 5-6x plat - people in the music industry thought that was as high as you could get in a post-mp3 bootleg-heavy climate.

i think bootlegging is a problem (or was...).

now i think the primary problem is merely lack of interest.

10 years ago people were still clamoring for pre-rls rips and sharing mp3 files.

nowadays, imo, you couldn't give a lot of "pop. music" away for free.

THAT'S the music industries biggest problem and it's entirely their own fault.

Dont think its a 'lack of interest'...

The numbers show otherwise..

What it feels like is a splintering of the public consciousness as it relates to music..
More and more sub genres niches and smaller major events..

No one has an answer to Adele.. Not even the heads of my industry.

Let the numbers tell it across the board demographically bruno mars is the biggest artist in the world.. But he hasn't sold nearly as many records as Adele..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

fuck you.

but obviously it fits the criteria of being "essential".

as only "essential" material is worthy of utilizing your hd space.

and the material that you merely stream is consequently deemed not as "essential" to you.

and that doesn't reflect any change in quality of current music.

fuck you.

deciding what is "exceptional" and what isn't based on the "need" for a soft/hard copy.

if sales are falling, obviously (using the same logic you use), many people by large aren't deeming what's new as hd-worthy.

I think I'm rare in that I insist on having mp3s at all. Most of my ppl only stream and never download. My recent ex drove me crazy with that shit - he only streamed music on his phone and never downloaded and doesn't own mp3s or CDs. My BFF is the same. And his boyfriend. And their roommate. And my other homie on the South Side. And at least 3 of my cousins I've talked to about this.

fuck you.

I think you meant to say "very few" instead of most. Most people have 16-48 I would guess, and of that most have less than 32gb.

What type of super expensive iPhone owners and high capacity sd card having Android nerds do you hang out with?

www.anwarmorse.com
https://www.instagram.com/thereal_anwarmorse99/

Contrary to what you may think...

A LARGE swath of the public was never 'good' at illegal downloading... People are still selling bootleg DVDs because of this

I have friends that just didn't know what to type in in google.. wouldn't download kazaa or vuze let alone torrents..

It was always just easier to go to itunes and buy a record..

now you have a generation that grew up looking up stuff on youtube and soundcloud and for them google is second nature... finding a song is easy and having access to spotify makes it even easier.. now that everything is mobile.. pressing play from my spotify playlist or soundcloud is even easier...

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

that is highly fallible to use as a measurement of any kind.

Yes there are..

But not at the hundred of millions of plays level..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

i don't.

i can't confirm or deny that one of these companies couldn't give you 100m unique streams if you paid them enough.

the comment/like ratio is the only way to really discern legitimacy.

Not really..

Impact is the only way.

If you have 240m plays on Spotify (like Calvin Harris) you better be able to fill a stadium... I should here you non stop on the radio and general public should "know" the song or who you are...

There is so much data out there it'd be easy to pick apart "bought" likes..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

it's easier to buy music now than it is to just download it but there's just that pesky problem of spending money and that can't be overcome.

<--- Big Baller World Order

now? no.

Bc that's where it's at. It ain't about a decline in quality

fuck you.

fuck you.

thanks for the positivity and have a nice day.

fuck you.

fuck you.

people will buy the stuff they really care about.

I mean, Beyonce's last surprise album sold like gangbusters, didn't it?

(bear in mind, I refuse to jump on the streaming bandwagon until wifi and/or augmented data plans become cheap and ubiquitous)

>people will buy the stuff they really care about.

exactly.
so when we have stuff that is #1 on the charts yet it debuts with only 50k in sales...
that sort of discord would automatically make people say something like "well - everyone bootlegged it" like they used to say 10 years ago.

i think the problem works like this, imo:

-there is way less music released on a nation level by major labels than 10 years ago; and WAY less than 20 and beyond. so pop. music released by majors has much less "competition" in being able to "burn up the charts" than before.

^this right here is a major attribution in why "numbers are down".
if you only give the public 3 options a week and they hate all 3... well... attrition of viewer/listener-ship.

-as a result of this condition, stuff goes top 40 or even top 10 with way less "resistance" than times previous. meaning the material can be horrible/stupid/uninteresting and worst of all UNPOPULAR (by previous definitions of what constituted popularity in music) and still occupy top billing on the hot 100.

-the actual product is released to limited fanfare and limited sales.
it "succeeds" on an adjusted scale that is constantly shrinking and is never brought up or thought about again.

^once upon a time a "success" went platinum or beyond.
then by mid-00's 400k or more was a success for certain genres.
then that number shrank to 100k and likely will continue shrinking.

the numbers aren't going down imo due to "rampant mp3 bootlegging" as was considered the culprit 10 years ago.

they're going down because the audience is tuning out much like television.

music is as "popular" as it's ever been...
maybe more-so with all the technologies we're inundated with that allow for music playing.
the problem is when music became a corporate "product" (cliche alert!!) and was made to capture capital with as little risk/exposure to the companies involved in distributing it as possible there were side-effects.
one of which was running off a large portion of their buying audience.

now people will say, "i just stream it".
but as i proved in this thread: if you really gave a shit about a song/album - you'd go out of your way to have the files as well.
and that's the problem with new music.
nobody gives a shit to have the files because they don't give a shit about the music.

i theorized 3-4 years ago that there will be a ton of "lost" music from this period in history due to people not bothering to care to retain hardcopies or even softcopies of the songs.

the culprit is the same: lack of interest due to substandard material.

and i mean you can prove that this way:
i've made a very concerted effort to discuss "the 00's" in the same way we discussed "the 90's" 10 years ago.
not because i give a shit about the 00's - but to sensibly make a point in the "disposability" of an entire decades worth of music.
look at the response discussing that period of music elicits on here...

people STILL want to discuss the 90's/80's/70's.

the fact that someone like adele can do "90's numbers" should be proof to anyone that there IS in fact blow-back from releasing a limited quantity of new music and pushing the boundaries on how insipid you can make it in an effort to make it "risk-free".
adele proved that they're still out there if they feel they're getting a product worth paying for - they will.

music is like a drug or a food.
if you put out an inferior quality product - people WILL notice and there will be a resulting blowback.

>I mean, Beyonce's last surprise album sold like gangbusters,
>didn't it?

lol.
beyonce and JT, despite their omnipresence can barely scrap together 2m people in the usa to buy their shit.
they're basically running unopposed too.

>(bear in mind, I refuse to jump on the streaming bandwagon
>until wifi and/or augmented data plans become cheap and
>ubiquitous)

So any suggestion from you claiming that the 'quality of music has gone down' doesn't matter to anyone.

Hate to break it to ya....the glory years of music were not 2000 to 2006. That's just the era that you feel comfortable talking about.

>Hate to break it to ya....the glory years of music were not
>2000 to 2006. That's just the era that you feel comfortable
>talking about.

i never said 2000-2006 were the "glory years" by any stretch of the imagination.
they're just the most recent decade to the one we're in and it's one that i would hope every poster here lived through consciously, hence it's "relevance" in music discussion.

I bet there's alot of people that spotify a little here....download there....buy a couple albums a year from the people the really love and that's it.

phemom's the name, all-star writer/
searching 4 journalistic fame, mindframe igniter....www.twitter.com/hayabusaage

If you see a dumbass username, under 1,000 replies and a beaten to death topic...STOP REPLYING!

How fucking dumb can we be to keep entertaining these aliases?

he also is not looking for conversation.

just space to ramble

i'm just espousing my thoughts and beliefs.

if you agree - fantastic, if not - fantastic.

3 other people do based on the votes.

thanks for replying.

he only creates all of these dumbass usernames because he's constantly getting suspended. no idea why, he must have naked pictures of ?uestlove or something, because his posts are always an interesting read despite everyone getting mad just off the principal that he posted it and they don't like him. maybe his smugness and dismissiveness comes from people being dicks to him and not contributing to the discussion in any meaningful way. you get the energy that you give in this world. i'll admit, sometimes his threads can be a little out of my depth, but i'd say they are no more done to death than anonymous' recent list post about "recent classics". honestly? he usually presents a perspective that's unique and thought provoking.

edited to add:

@anonymous

the guideline is that we don't respond to posters anymore who have less than 1,000 replies? definitely not a good idea if we want to breathe any new life into this place. what kind of message board eugenics are you trying to get away with here?

Esteemed author of the celebrated, double-platinum post: "Drake - Wu-Tang Forever".

>@anonymous
>
>the guideline is that we don't respond to posters anymore who
>have less than 1,000 replies? definitely not a good idea if we
>want to breathe any new life into this place. what kind of
>message board eugenics are you trying to get away with here?

That's why I grouped it with the other two guidelines you chose to ignore.

Esteemed author of the celebrated, double-platinum post: "Drake - Wu-Tang Forever".

i own every piece of curren$y's discography
and have no idea what his official releases are
because i can acquire all his releases from the same sites
not sure about the other genres but i think to an extent rap conditioned it's fans to expect free quality releases with the advent of mixtapes


that being said ppl like lil wayne and drake release free albums and still go plat (or near plat) week 1

~~~~~~

like it's weird but mixtapes are part of rappers catalogue
the same way their major releases are.

50s mix tape before GRODT
is just as essential as the real album.

but the thing is... who's uploading this stuff?
when future generations look back and try to find the best stuff from our era...
will it have been uploaded?



i used to think the Internet meant everything that gets leaked
stays there forever. but that's not true.

i think back to when jay released "the blueprint."
there was a song that didn't make it called "addicted to the game."
maybe like 6 yrs ago i wanted to hear this song again. i know my buddy had it on his copy of the blueprint bootleg, but i that was years ago.

i start looking for this track.
looked everywhere.

it took a year to find some blog that had thought to upload this.


now i realize that's a weird example because who cares about that one bootleg.
but if i understand correctly, mix tapes are now as much a part of artists legacy
as the actual albums.

sure, when it was out its easy to find.
but what about the kids that may want to research the catalogs of the rappers that were great in 20__.

who's uploading those mixtapes?
who's thinking to catelouge it?
is anybody?

will those torrents be around in 30 yrs?

i'm asking.

About how the "masters" for a lot of recent music are disappearing at an alarming rate. Because there *are* no masters, really... no master tapes, anyway. The "master" is an mp3 , and there's no responsible label librarian to curate it, so it circulates and after people (as they are now wont to do) delete it from their hard drives after so much time, the track is gone.

It's alarming how often you see artists (well... let's be real: rappers) admitting that they have no copies, no records whatsoever of songs they did like 5 years ago.

(Another consequence of the absence of label oversight and QC that's bothered me lately is that it is sometimes hard to confirm the actual title of a song. Like a third of the blogs call it "I Ain't Rockin with That," another third call it "I Ain't Rocking with This," then the remaining third offers you variations of both names with different "Rockins" "Rockings" "Dis" and "Dat" and then some of them call the song "Fly My Way"... the artist's official VEVO and Soundcloud accounts can't even agree on what the song is called)

But the fact that these tracks get deleted so quickly, that everybody seems to erase them at some point speaks to the general attitude of disposability towards music these days but I don't necessarily it is that much connected to the quality of the music as it is to the fact that we take accessibility for granted.

For me... when it comes to quality, from my own aesthetic and sentimental POV, you're not getting much higher than Off The Wall I listen to at least one song from that album probably every single day. And yet I realize that I don't have it in my iTunes library. I don't have it on CD. I *might* have it on vinyl, in one of my backcrates, in storage... but I don't have a ready copy in any format.

I don't need one. I can access it via Spotify or YouTube or some other application almost anytime I want.

What I do have on my hard drive though are the Off The Wall demos and outtakes. I need to have those not because I enjoy them more than the actual album but because I know they are not as readily accessible if I do need them.

In fact, when I look at my iTunes library, a good deal of it is stuff that I can't really get elsewhere: stuff I've digitized from vinyl and cassette or ripped from OOP CDs, rare mixtapes and exclusive tracks, etc.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

i referenced the post in this thread and joe corn mo's reply reads like he read the OG post as well.

>i referenced the post in this thread and joe corn mo's reply
>reads like he read the OG post as well.

this is the first post i've read of yours in a while.
because i can't with your posts, for the most part.
but anyway, i still disagree with the premise of this post.

i didn't quit buying physical copies of stuff because the music sucks.
i don't buy physical copies because its unnecessary, for the most part.

a while back i was buying a lot of punk and post-punk stuff on vinyl
because it either wasn't available for download or too hard too find.
but aside from vinyl fetishism, which i am over...
there's no need for me to own a physical copy of "purple rain."

i can stream it.
the only thing i need a phyical or downloaded copy of is price bootlegs or concerts
that i can't stream.

for super rare stuff, you need a copy.
for everything else, i can stream it.


if by chance i discover an artist on spotify
that i feel the need to become a completist for,
i will start either seek out physical copies or look for a download.

but i'm not even a prince or MJ completist
so that probably won't happen with any time soon.

it's not that i don't download because there isn't good music.
i don't download because i don't NEED that much music to get my fix.
i've never been on spotify and not been able to find something new and good to listen to.

i actually listen to MORE new music with spotify
than i have in the past 5 or 6 yrs.

to this one and to the one from 4 years ago afkap brought up.

and thank you for reminding me why i quit clicking on your posts.


>to this one and to the one from 4 years ago afkap brought
>up

i was just assuming based on probability.
take care.

>i referenced the post in this thread

I didn't see that reply before

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

you're here bemoaning that much music will be lost forever but then down there you say all you need yourself is streaming

again, you're part of the problem you seem to be troubled about here

_________
steamrollin'

me.
joe corn mo.

i don't follow new music, mostly.
and I am really not into collecting old, obscure music i haven't heard.

there is more than enough music on spotify
for me to not need more stuff to listen to.

i don't go around digging for old, obscure stuff anymore.
so really, i'm good.

i am not a music head anymore.
not the way i was when i was 20.
partially because i don't get high off of listening music the same way.
partially because i'd rather be playing.
partially because i have other stuff to do.

for all kinds of reasons,
music is less important to me than it was 10 yrs ago.

i have accepted that,
so spotify works for me.

_________
steamrollin'

i will not get into a pissing contest about who
knows more about music.

because i am not in college.

good luck with this.

you like Michael Jackson

and, like, Marvin Gaye

oh, and Miles Davis when you're feeling adventurous

_________
steamrollin'

feel free to have the last word.

SHAMONE

_________
steamrollin'

i never thought i'd get here,
but music isn't as important to me as it once was,
and in a way spotify is helping me rediscover music.

if somebody mentions a song or album,
or if i read about something i think i'll like,
if i go to spotify, it's probably there.

does it have EVERYTHNG?

no. so it's not that record stores and digging through crates is obsolete.
but I am not about that life anymore.
i essentially have an encyclopedic record store on my phone.

this meets 99 percent of my music listening needs at this point in my life.
and if the service goes down, i got some iTunes stuff saved on the hard drive.

i'm good.




and if i want to discover new stuff,
the radio feature digs for me.
i'm good.



what's my point?

if joe corn mo-- the music snob,
the vinyl fetishist, the guy that never thought i'd trust the cloud with my music..

if I'M thinking this way...


kids that have never bought a physical album in their natural born lives
mostly likely have no context for anything but YouTube and the cloud.
why would they?


that's why ppl don't buy physical copies. wtf for?
i really don't need to even download it for the most part.
unless i need it for a plane ride or a road trip through BFE,
the cloud is there.

unless it's unusually obscure,
the cloud has it.

i don't have to own a copy of a record at this point in my life.

people like you really are the problem

_________
steamrollin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLYAK1_r0Zg

fuck you.

.

_________
steamrollin'

have fun in your caves.

i like physical media, too, but there's no stopping the future from happening. what's going to happen in 10 years when there are no more physical copies at all?

Esteemed author of the celebrated, double-platinum post: "Drake - Wu-Tang Forever".