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Lobby The Lesson topic #2904551

Subject: "Your favorite John Coltrane album not named "A Love Supreme"" Previous topic | Next topic
Funkymusic
Member since Sep 19th 2008
1559 posts
Wed Oct-08-14 11:25 AM

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"Your favorite John Coltrane album not named "A Love Supreme""


  

          

but if it has to be ALS, that's fine. wanted to see what other albums folks dig.

signature pose.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Giant Steps
Oct 08th 2014
1
^^^This. Or Blue Trian
Oct 08th 2014
3
RE: Giant Steps
Oct 08th 2014
4
      impulse catalog >>>>>>>
Oct 08th 2014
5
Live At Birdland
Oct 08th 2014
2
The Complete Africa/Brass Sessions
Oct 08th 2014
6
ambitious choice
Oct 08th 2014
7
That album just blows my mind
Oct 08th 2014
10
YES!
Oct 11th 2014
21
Blue Train.
Oct 08th 2014
8
I've always had much love for Crescent
Oct 08th 2014
9
Crescent is amazing...
Oct 08th 2014
11
      Them posthumous album titles sound Sun Ra-esque.
Oct 26th 2014
28
RE: Ole'
Oct 08th 2014
12
Ole' over here too
Oct 09th 2014
14
Yup
Oct 09th 2014
18
This reminded me
Oct 10th 2014
19
lush life
Oct 09th 2014
13
Blue Train
Oct 09th 2014
15
i feel like i should be in this thread. :-)
Oct 09th 2014
16
Giant Steps followed by Olé
Oct 09th 2014
17
My Favorite Things - that album is just perfect.
Oct 10th 2014
20
Sidenote:Anyone a fan of Coltrane (1962) and Coltrane plays (1965)?
Oct 11th 2014
22
First Meditations
Oct 12th 2014
23
I like the "Coltrane" album from the Impulse! label 1962
Oct 14th 2014
24
My Favorite Things, Ole, Meditations, Giant Steps, Coltrane Jazz, Black ...
Oct 19th 2014
25
coltrane/hartman
Oct 19th 2014
26
Ballads with Johnny Hartman.
Oct 19th 2014
27

imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Wed Oct-08-14 11:33 AM

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1. "Giant Steps"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

easy answer. I like his late albums too though sometimes more. But Giant Steps to me epitomizes (more than ALS) what made Coltrane a great.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44717 posts
Wed Oct-08-14 12:25 PM

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3. "^^^This. Or Blue Trian"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Funkymusic
Member since Sep 19th 2008
1559 posts
Wed Oct-08-14 01:05 PM

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4. "RE: Giant Steps"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

giant steps was his ah um and a love supreme was his black saint and the sinner lady.

signature pose.

  

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CalvinButts
Member since Jun 20th 2014
854 posts
Wed Oct-08-14 01:07 PM

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5. "impulse catalog >>>>>>> "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

_________
steamrollin'

  

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CalvinButts
Member since Jun 20th 2014
854 posts
Wed Oct-08-14 11:49 AM

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2. "Live At Birdland"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_________
steamrollin'

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4988 posts
Wed Oct-08-14 01:23 PM

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6. "The Complete Africa/Brass Sessions"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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CalvinButts
Member since Jun 20th 2014
854 posts
Wed Oct-08-14 01:25 PM

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7. "ambitious choice"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

props

_________
steamrollin'

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4988 posts
Wed Oct-08-14 04:29 PM

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10. "That album just blows my mind"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I have not heard much of Trane' in a big band setting, and I don't believe there is much, but my god, it works out fantastically and sounds EPIC on tracks like "The Damned Don't Cry". The version of "Greensleeves" is absolutely chilling.

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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Castro
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Sat Oct-11-14 12:02 AM

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21. "YES!"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Oct-08-14 02:47 PM

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8. "Blue Train."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Bumaye
Member since Jul 28th 2005
800 posts
Wed Oct-08-14 04:01 PM

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9. "I've always had much love for Crescent"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Giant Steps and Blue Train have been mentioned already. Honestly, I listen to all three of these more than I listen to A Love Supreme these days.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Wed Oct-08-14 04:37 PM

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11. "Crescent is amazing..."
In response to Reply # 9


          

I feel that "Bessie's blues" sound out-of-place and that it's a shame that there are no Coltrane-solos on the second side/half but that's the only thing that prevents it from being a total knockout.

Other than that:

Giant Steps is amazing and feels like the natural pick but the rhythm-section is just too tame and "fifties". "Live at Village Vanguard" is as good as it gets but the OG version feels slight after the boxset and the "Impressions"-album (which contains additional material from the same shows) is half-assed due to the live/studio-mixture and a lack of focus.

"Live at Birdland" is a scorcher but too much emphasis on the soprano for my taste. "Meditations" is probably my personal favorite but the thing is that outside of some collective squawking with Sanders, Coltrane really only play one solo in the traditional sense and it's in the first track so it feels like the wrong pick.

As for post-humous material, "Sun ship" is a mindblowingly good album and honestly stronger than a good deal of the stuff he released when he was alive but the thing is that since Coltrane recorded so much in 65, he had already moved on to a new thing and even a new *band* by the time it was posed to be released and went with the "Ascension"-session instead which was the right choice from a statement-purpose but "Sun Ship" is the stronger album IMO.

Oh yeah, "Interstellar Space" is completely bad-ass if we are talking about posthumous shit but I don't really think of it as a "real" coltrane-album due to the duo-format; I suspect it was meant as a rehearsal or something that just got released when Coltrane was dead; still, I love raw shit like that and it's by FAR my favorite of his stuff in the last two years.

As for the Atlantic-stuff outside of "Giant Steps", I feel that the material that was recorded during the marathon sessions that produced "My favorite things", "Coltrane plays the blues" and "Coltrane Sound" was packaged in a bad way:"MY favorite..." is strictly standards and while the title track is a classic, I don't find overplayed tunes like "Summertime" or "Everytime we say goodbye" particularly happening regardless of how dope Coltrane is. "...Plays the blues" meanwhile is strictly 12-bar blues which gets dull over an entire album and "Coltrane sound" was the leftovers which actually includes both standards and 12 bar blues as well but I still think it's the best of those records since it contains some Coltrane-originals that rips.

Basically, that material should have been released differently, I've made my own comp of the highlights without any lame attept at a "theme" (which I assume was a record-company idea in the first place) and it kicks those albums ass. "Coltrane Jazz" meanwhile is a disappointing followup to "Giant Steps" in that it contains some pedestrian standards and three blues-tracks as well (all dope but still...) so there's very little that showcase where Coltrane was going. Cool album anyway. "Ole" is good but I like "Africa/brass" more for stuff in the same vein.

Oh yeah (part 2), the title track on "transition"-that was the first Coltrane I knowingly heard back in 89-90 outside of a documentary on Tv and it just kicked my ass so hard it's not even funny... still does.

  

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normal35762
Member since Oct 20th 2004
13246 posts
Sun Oct-26-14 11:00 PM

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28. "Them posthumous album titles sound Sun Ra-esque."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

Wanna check them out.

  

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Austin
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Wed Oct-08-14 06:21 PM

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12. "RE: Ole'"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


``they asked me what the meek would get. picture me: afraid to answer.``

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2014/193910

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Oct-09-14 08:26 AM

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14. "Ole' over here too"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Oct-09-14 04:00 PM

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18. "Yup"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Fri Oct-10-14 07:37 AM

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19. "This reminded me"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Kulu Se Mama

Always listen to them back to back.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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thebigfunk
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Thu Oct-09-14 08:12 AM

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13. "lush life"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Partially personal nostalgia, but Lush Life is one of my personal favs... it was (i think) the first coltrane record i bought, and i really didn't know what I was getting into at the time. Like Someone in Love was already one of my favorite standards but that version just made me flip my lid. The fact that the first few tracks are just him, bass, and drums is kind of unique, too --- there was a story behind that (can't remember what). Probably my favorite of his early recordings.




-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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WarriorPoet415
Member since Sep 30th 2003
17895 posts
Thu Oct-09-14 10:32 AM

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15. "Blue Train"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

  

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A Love Supreme
Member since Nov 25th 2003
3052 posts
Thu Oct-09-14 12:52 PM

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16. "i feel like i should be in this thread. :-)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

someone mentioned crescent already but i must big up sun ship too.
also one down, one up: live at the half note. was released a few years ago.
and they just released another concert. album is called offering but i haven't bought it yet.

  

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woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
13957 posts
Thu Oct-09-14 01:10 PM

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17. "Giant Steps followed by Olé"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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soulfunk
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Fri Oct-10-14 08:56 AM

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20. "My Favorite Things - that album is just perfect."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My Favorite Things is somewhat of a blend between Giant Steps and A Love Supreme. These three are definitely my favorite three Trane albums, for different reasons. But IMO My Favorite Things is the best.

Giant Steps is pretty much a group of songs, all over the place. That has pros and cons - it's probably the album that gives you the best idea of everything Coltrane was great at - you have your bebop/hard bop tunes on it, your blues form tunes, ballads, etc. You have Trane giving you his most direct applications of Coltrane Changes with Giant Steps and Countdown - and that right there has given all jazz sax players years of material to study and practice. This album doesn't have consistency in personnel - it was recorded in 1959 before Trane had an actual quartet (the first version of the Coltrane Quartet was put together in 1960.) You can definitely listen to Giant Steps front to back, but it doesn't have a consistent mood.

A Love Supreme is one piece with four movements, essentially a concept album. So it's the opposite extreme from Giant Steps. You have the classic Coltrane Quartet here, with Garrison, Jones, and Tyner, all at the top of their game playing together. The music is all very modal in style, and IMO is at the height of this period for Trane before he started really playing "out" stuff all the time. But because it's so much of a concept album, you don't have full "tunes" here, and the melodies are just quick starting points to the modal solos that the band would play.

But My Favorite Things? It sits right between those two. Came out in the time between those two albums (60 or 61 I believe), and was the first album with a Coltrane Quartet. Garrison wasn't on board yet, but you had Elvin Jones, McCoy Tyner, and Steve Davis in what would eventually be Garrison's spot. You really have a mix of GS and ALS in styles here - the title track is obviously a cover but the extended solos are completely modal - letting you hear Trane starting to develop that style that he would later perfect on ALS. But since it was a cover of an actual song, the head in and out are fully developed melodies. Then you have Everytime We Say Goodbye which is a comepletely underrated Trane ballad. Beautiful playing on that one. Summertime just might be my favorite Trane tune of all time - sounds NOTHING like the original at ALL and the solos by Trane and Tyner are just ridiculous. Sheets of sound Coltrane in full effect here.But Not For ME is a CRAZY arrangement - he took a basic Gershwin tune and reharmonized it using Coltrane changes. This tune is IMO the most advanced use of Coltrane changes that you'll hear...if you study the chords in this arrangement and what they played over them and then go back and listen to the Coltrane changes on Countdown and Giant Steps, those earlier tunes will just sound like practice exercises. You can hear on those earlier tunes that Trane was just figuring out how to solo over those Coltrane changes, while when you hear it on But Not For Me it's so organic that you may not even recognize the Coltrane changes until you sit down at a piano to figure out the reharmonization.

I guess the negative about the My Favorite Things album is the fact that the four tunes were all covers - but IMO that plays to Trane's strengths. I love him as an arranger way more than I love him as a composer. Most of his original compositions were either heavily chords based with simple melodies following the chords, or with modal work like A Love Supreme the melodies are quick starting points to get to the long solos. But on MFT you get to hear him take standards and fully arrange them to fit his style and it really works.

Once again, these are my three favorite Trane records, so I'm not taking anything away from Giant Steps or A Love Supreme at all.

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Sat Oct-11-14 12:06 PM

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22. "Sidenote:Anyone a fan of Coltrane (1962) and Coltrane plays (1965)?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-11-14 12:06 PM by Jakob Hellberg

          

Those are his most overlooked, non-posthumous albums IMO; like, "noone" ever talks about them and I can't imagine them selling much either...

What both those albums suffer from is a soprano-sax waltz version of a pop-tune that seems to be a blatant-and inferior-attempt at remaking "My favourite things" (="The inchworm" and "Chim chim cheree").

Other than that though, I think the "Coltrane"-album is pretty damn dope and "Out of this world" is one of his most definitive performances. I also dig "Miles modes" a lot and it's pretty strange that the theme was most likely written by Dolphy and one of his songs (=the red planet") has an identical melody (the rest of the tune is total Coltrane though), yet, it's called "Miles mode" and is credited to Trane, I never understood that... Oh yeah, the ballad "Soul eyes" (written by Mal Waldron) is gorgeous BTW, one of Tranes best in that vein.

"Coltrane plays..." meanwhile was supposed to be this unofficial follow-up to "My favorite things" with every song being a standard but as it turned out, only half of the four songs are covers. This one is kind of weak IMO and suffers from being the follow-up to the massive "A love supreme" but you can REALLY hear Coltrane-if not so much the other guys-going more "out" and "free" in terms of tonality and shit; it's very transitional and maybe that's why people don't care-too "outside" even for the "ALS"-crowd but too "inside" for the free-jazzers and fans of his late shit...

Anyway, just brought up those two albums becausee they are never mentioned and indeed, noone (including myself) mentioned them either but the "Coltrane"-album at least is worth peeping; good shit...

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
3164 posts
Sun Oct-12-14 07:12 AM

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23. "First Meditations"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Bit of a left field choice because this album is unsung even among people who love the later Impulse years. But it's a stunner to me. I was listening to it non-stop the weekend I got married (first time around) and it was as if reality warped around the record. I haven't actively listened to it in years but I know if I put it on today, I'd be sucked in from the first notes.

"Transition" is also a hell of an album, and "Crescent." "Lonnie's Lament" from "Crescent" is an amazing song, one of my favorite heads ever.

--

  

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Dupree90
Member since Jul 10th 2005
639 posts
Tue Oct-14-14 09:54 PM

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24. "I like the "Coltrane" album from the Impulse! label 1962"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Mother fucking Tunji,that shit is so sad and beautiful and scary and sexy...I love that record.

  

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johnbook
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Sun Oct-19-14 10:23 AM

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25. "My Favorite Things, Ole, Meditations, Giant Steps, Coltrane Jazz, Black ..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I also like COLTRANE PLAYS THE BLUES and THE AVANT-GARDE, but the latter is a split album so that doesn't count.



THE HOME OF BOOK-NESS:
http://www.thisisbooksmusic.com/
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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16105 posts
Sun Oct-19-14 12:22 PM

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26. "coltrane/hartman"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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bluetiger
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Sun Oct-19-14 05:41 PM

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27. "Ballads with Johnny Hartman. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

don't be fkn evil.

  

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