Just clearing that up, since the frame of reference appears ambiguous.
Yeah, that was a pretty big "sellout" move, but... whatever.
Maybe I'm old and jaded, but I don't get mad at stuff like that anymore. If anything, I actually feel happy when I see my favorite artists selling out because I like knowing that they're eating instead of starving in this "music is free" era.
(Not that Dylan was ever in danger of starving, but... let him cook)
>http://youtu.be/KlSn8Isv-3M > >Just clearing that up, since the frame of reference appears >ambiguous. > >Yeah, that was a pretty big "sellout" move, but... whatever. > >Maybe I'm old and jaded, but I don't get mad at stuff like >that anymore. If anything, I actually feel happy when I see my >favorite artists selling out because I like knowing that >they're eating instead of starving in this "music is free" >era. > >(Not that Dylan was ever in danger of starving, but... let him >cook)
12. "My thoughts exactly." In response to Reply # 3
>Maybe I'm old and jaded, but I don't get mad at stuff like >that anymore. If anything, I actually feel happy when I see my >favorite artists selling out because I like knowing that >they're eating instead of starving in this "music is free" >era.
And let's be clear - Dylan's one of the few guys from that supposedly hypocritical generation who still not only makes a lot of new music, *good* new music, but also plays it live instead of relying on a catalog of songs from forty years ago ... this isn't the first time he's ever sold anything, it won't be the last, and it hardly has any bearing on his artistry
Honestly, he probably does it just to get a rise of out of folks who think they "know" Dylan, and I can't say that I blame him...
11. "Dylan actively trolled that 'generation' while it was actually happening" In response to Reply # 10
I mean he was actually living in Woodstock while they had a festival using that spot's name a half hour down the road on a farm in Bethel and he couldn't be bothered to go.
He detested that scene & especially those who chose to make him a poster-child of it.
As for him advertising for Chrysler last night, I didn't see it because I was off the game by that time but I'd imagine it was in the same vein as the one Seger had done the year before and others before that which was originally supposed to be a show of support for the American auto industry & U.S. manufacturing.
Folks can agree or disagree with that if you want, it personally means almost nothing to me when it comes to my thoughts of him as a man or an artist.
>As for him advertising for Chrysler last night, I didn't see >it because I was off the game by that time but I'd imagine it >was in the same vein as the one Seger had done the year before >and others before that which was originally supposed to be a >show of support for the American auto industry & U.S. >manufacturing.
Pretty much, and in that sense it's really no surprise coming from him.
But folks also like to think of Dylan as somehow anti-business, which is funny considering he's proven time and again how much of a businessman he actually is. His product is his myth which is always being recreated, reshaped, redeployed. This is no different.
19. "clearly Dylan never really stood for shit but himself" In response to Reply # 16
its not his fault that the image was distorted to make him some populist protest hero, but its a notion worth challenging bc some ppl still buy that image of him
but yeah, he's just another pop act like the Beatles emblematic of the hypocrisy of the Boomers ... guess u don't need a weatherman to know the wind blows for almighty Capital
lol
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
24. "No but what I do care about" In response to Reply # 22 Tue Feb-04-14 07:31 PM by Anonymous
> >>That's why making a dumb ass post like this is pointless. >You >>honestly care that Bob did a Chrystler commercial? >> >> > >is it Black Girl Lost or shorty owe you for ice?
Is you going from a normal cool dude to discuss music with on here to the resident bitch that no one likes.
31. "I think you need to re-read Bombastic/TheBigFunk's posts" In response to Reply # 30
which you happened not to read/conveniently not reply to. Because I'm not re explaining the shit that they wrote.
tbh from your posts its obvious that you don't even care about Bob Dylan, so why even make this post man? Why are you complaining that an artist you aren't even interested in made a commercial?
33. "Yes...you have half of this right" In response to Reply # 30 Wed Feb-05-14 01:59 PM by Anonymous
>its cool to be anti-establishment until you graduate college
It is cool until you graduate college which is why people are laughing at you.
>& then you're a loser if you stick to your beliefs > >all hail the dollar > >
But it's not about sticking to your beliefs. It's about growing and gaining new perspectives on things. It's pretty sad to think the way you thought in college for the rest of your life.
That's why people don't give a fuck if Bob has perhaps changed his mind in his old age from something he said in 1960.
This is something the non-artists don't understand. People write and record songs on a whim. It's very likely there will be concepts and trains of thoughts they don't fully believe in as the years go past and to some degree may even be embarrassed about in their older age. Shit, the amount of bitching you've been doing recently, isn't that what you're hopin happens to many hip-hop artists?
>its why no overt police state is necessary > >we control ourselves sufficiently > >and the generation that had the best chance to *really* change >this stuff around is *exactly* who i am truly being critical >of here > >we learned to be cowards & sell out bc thats what our parents >taught us
You are beyond a bitch. The act of being in a commercial is not slling out. You are looking at it entirely in the surface which is what ignorant fucks do.
40. "is it that hard to actually argue my points?" In response to Reply # 38
you keep falling back on this "oh you're a bitch & nobody likes you"
if anything you're just iustrating the point
ppl these days have become so intolerant of certain viewpoints that the hive-mind becomes the truth and anyone who challenges it becomes a "bitch" and is dismissed as unintelligent
this despite the fact ive proven on these boards for years that even on my worst day you cant touch my intellect
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
Joe Corn Mo Member since Aug 29th 2010 15139 posts
Wed Feb-05-14 02:23 PM
43. "you haven't made a coherent point yet. " In response to Reply # 40
first you say "bob dylan sold out" even though you never addressed my point that we never established what dylan's core beliefs were to begin with.
and really, i wasn't even positive you were wrong. i said "I don't know that we have enough information to know."
but i was prepared to listen to your argument.
then you lept to "dylan was always only about his paper," which nobody ever said. we just said he didn't intend to be the poster child for the hippies." which you may have known if you listened to more than one album.
then you went back to saying we are blindly defending a hero that sold out, and you made some half-assed comparrison to Bruce Springsteen.
what, exactly, is your point.
and before you accuse me of hero worship, please understand i really don't care for bob dylan.
i just want you to defend your point, if you have one.
51. "There are no points to argue with..." In response to Reply # 40
Let me start by saying that I don't need to respond to shit. You have been selective with the points you decide to respond to so your statement holds no weight.
>you keep falling back on this "oh you're a bitch & nobody >likes you"
I'm not falling back on anything. I'm simply stating the truth. And you know me bro. It's one thing for these bullshit ass aliases and trolls to come onto the board but for someone who was part of the music discussion to do a complete 180 and act like a bitch (for lack of a better word) that shit ain't cool with me and I'm going to tell you. I don't see you as one of these trolls on here. We've had good discussions in the past (which I still have in my inbox) so when I say "you're a bitch and no one likes you" I'm saying it because I see your actions as a problem. You have yet to defend your recent bullshit and just like if it was one of my boys in real life, I feel like you need to defend that shit. Until you do, you will be called a bitch.
> >if anything you're just iustrating the point >
And yet you still have no point so I must be a genius.
>ppl these days have become so intolerant of certain viewpoints >that the hive-mind becomes the truth and anyone who challenges >it becomes a "bitch" and is dismissed as unintelligent >
See, the thing is, you're not challenging shit. You said it yourself, you are doing nothing more than stating an opinion of every college student that just discovered Bob Dylan. You think you're challenging the "system" but your not. You idea or viewpoint is not new. You're at the point in your life where you should know that. It's a little sad you don't because you're damn near 40.
>this despite the fact ive proven on these boards for years >that even on my worst day you cant touch my intellect > >
Like I said below, keep thinking that and go nowhere in life. You have done nothing on these boards that proves you are intellectually superior than others.
52. "serious reply that has nothing to do with Dylan" In response to Reply # 36
>we learned to be cowards & sell out bc thats what our parents >taught us
I half way agree with this, but think the bigger lesson we learned is that their tactics didn't work because they led to a complicity with the machine they were fighting against. You said they had the best chance of making change, and I say that was/is all perception. They had an advantage but it wasn't as strong as it may have appeared to be, especially because the crux of that advantage was time.
What we need to learn from that however isn't to go gung ho on their failed tactics, but recognizing the position we're in and the failure of the strategies previously employed come up with new ones that can address the beast that continues to evolve. In the meantime though acting out in shadow of our parents makes little to no sense as the countermearures to those strategies were established well over four decades ago and have become an ingrained part of the system to prevent such an advantage from ever popping up again.
You want an example, look at Anonymous and Operation Wall Street. I actually believe OWS *could* have been a 'cointel' op, evidenced by the fact that the feds had already infiltrated Anonymous and turned one of their 'leaders' prior to OWS making the whole thing more of a controlled exercise in gauging the social climate.
All of that said, I do hope one day you remember that you are talking amongst friends here and start at least acting like you respect them and their opinions rather than the wonton dismissals you've been throwing around of late in the effort to 'me vs them' us. We're still family but everyone at the table is side eying you now.
32. "Outrage over Bob Dylan doing an ad is so 10 years ago" In response to Reply # 0
It comes down to "Bob Dylan is lots of things to lots people but none of those things to himself." They even made a whole movie about it called "I'm Not There."
49. "***rolls eyes*** Where do I even begin here?" In response to Reply # 41 Wed Feb-05-14 02:30 PM by mrhood75
>Masters of War w/ the fact that Chrysler is part of the >military industrial complex
Ah, so according to you, a song directed at politicians and the military is somehow negated because in 2014 the writer/singer appeared in commercial where the message is "Buy American-made cars." Yeah, we're done here.
>or does that not fit the narrative?
The narrative of you posting belligerent and insulting and not particularly open to discussion? I don't know, you tell me. Or we can continue with this wind-up toy post.
53. "RE: ***rolls eyes*** Where do I even begin here?" In response to Reply # 49
>>Masters of War w/ the fact that Chrysler is part of the >>military industrial complex > >Ah, so according to you, a song directed at politicians and >the military is somehow negated because in 2014 the >writer/singer appeared in commercial where the message is "Buy >American-made cars." Yeah, we're done here.
so Chrysler is not a part of the Military Industrial Complex
or are you only able to process what commercials, marketing & advertising appear to be on the surface?
>>or does that not fit the narrative? > >The narrative of you posting belligerent and insulting and not >particularly open to discussion? I don't know, you tell me. Or >we can continue with this wind-up toy post.
yes, lets direct the post back to *me* instead of the subject of the post
typical shit
them rappers taught you very well
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
61. "RE: ***rolls eyes*** Where do I even begin here?" In response to Reply # 53
>so Chrysler is not a part of the Military Industrial Complex > >or are you only able to process what commercials, marketing & >advertising appear to be on the surface?
It's about getting people to buy cars made by Chrystler. It's an exercise in commerce, in a commerce-based economy.
As PL noted below, it's not like the commerical used "Masters of Wars" to sell cars. They didn't use "Hurricane" to sell cars. They don't use "Hard Rains Gonna Fall" to sell cars. They didn't even use "Like a Rolling Stone" to sell cars. They used Bob Dylan being Bob Dylan to sell cars.
That's why your Bruce Springsteen comparison rings hollow: the offered him money to use a song about the treatment of Vietnam veterans to sell cars. They wanted to take a song about one specific thing and make it about something else. And since that song in particular has a history of being misused, I can certainly understand why Springsteen told them no.
>yes, lets direct the post back to *me* instead of the subject >of the post > >typical shit > >them rappers taught you very well
It's not what you post, but how you post it. Again, simple as that. If you're trying to make a point and start a legitimate discussion, then do so.
And you might want to get off your high horse about directing words at the poster rather than the subject of the post, because it's behavior that you engage in pretty frequently.
>the idea that one cant be critical of something because its >"so ten years ago" is just stupid > >there is no statute of limitations on opinions > >fuck bob zimmerman
Read above...then why is it that there is a statute of limitations on he opinions an artist puts on a record in 1960?
and just to preface what I am going to respond above...you are quick to tell someone they aren't arguing your points while being selective as fuck with what you respond to.
Remember this in life my man: you're not that intelligent.
55. "RE: where does Bob Dylan rank as far as selling out & pimping his le..." In response to Reply # 0 Wed Feb-05-14 03:02 PM by Conscious
I just did a Modelo commercial. Does that make me a sell-out? Or is it alright because I'm rather unknown? I've been performing in a very socially 'conscious' space for a decade and a half. Been an activist and grassroots individual of business some would say for just about as long. I remember Saul Williams and then Mos Def being labeled sell-outs for their musical contributions to the corporate 'machine'. What at the end of the day does that have to do with what you do in this life? Why does it matter? And it does matter because if it did not, you wouldn't take time to post and respond to every comment. Is it about getting attention on a message board? Are you bored? Or does engaging strangers in this manner entertain you? If that's the case I wouldn't even be mad at that. Be cool if you said it.
56. "de-philpot'd: Considering "Masters of War" isn't Dylan's ad..." In response to Reply # 0
at least a tad hypocritical?
I mean sure it's been decades since he wrote MoW and no MoW wasn't used in the commercial, but Chrysler was definitely one of the Masters of War the song was directed at.
I guess it has to be looed at in a different context though. The point of the commercial and supporting Chrysler in this context (beyond whatever check was cashed) was about supporting Americans vis a vis the american auto industry in Detroit. And if that is what Dylan was trying to support can you really knock him.
59. "no it depends on how *Dylan* perceives the auto industry" In response to Reply # 58
if he sees reviving the auto industry as an important part of rebuilding the fabric of america, then the ad at least on some level is sincere.
now if there's evidence that his perception is removed from the reality of it then by all means he should be checked on it, with facts not assertions. But trying to hold him accountable for a modern issue based on *your* perception of his stance on a separate issue which is based on his music from 40+ years ago is a waste of energy.
67. "fine...that's fine" In response to Reply # 65
but i still think that a corp like Chrysler targets a guy like him to sell their product bc he is considered a respectable person w/ integrity & therefore it legitimizes their product
i guess whether he actually sees it that way does relate back to using the phrase "selling out"
you see the pattern in Rap music too & even in the sponsored advertisers (mcdonalds for example) on this board
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
68. "shit on McDonalds all you want" In response to Reply # 67
(I literally haven't eaten any in over two decades)
>you see the pattern in Rap music too & even in the sponsored >advertisers (mcdonalds for example) on this board
but thanks to all of that, one of the valuable members of this community is being flown around the country as a professional DJ and being exposed in a way which can set his career straight for a minute because of it. Does that mean I'm going to start championing McD's? Fuck now. but I'll be damned if I call R-Tistic a sell out for my own views.
>but thanks to all of that, one of the valuable members of this >community is being flown around the country as a professional >DJ and being exposed in a way which can set his career >straight for a minute because of it. Does that mean I'm going >to start championing McD's? Fuck now. but I'll be damned if >I call R-Tistic a sell out for my own views. >
People think being associated with a company = selling out.
There is so much more to it than that.
I remember people were calling Macklemore a sell out because of the NBA All-Star promos using the song Wings.
Personally, I understood their position but I also knew exactly what Macklemore was going to say.
And sure enough he said that doing the promo and having to change a few words in order to not put down Nike was still a win-win for him because he A) got to do a commercial for the NBA which he is a fan of and B) he got to push more people to download his song Wings which had the original lyrics so his point got across either way.
To some degree it's understanding the sell out move and pimping it for your own gain.
And it doesn't matter that the gain was money because coupled with that was the fact he got his message across to a wider range of people any way.
And I say this without liking that song and being "whatever" on Macklemore. Although that song would've been dope if over some classic Primo boom bap.
Selling out is not just about letting a company use your song. It's more than that and it is more about the artists' reasoning or viewpoint on it. And no one here knows Bob Dylan that I know of so no one can really say what his intentions or reason were.
Only ignorant people yell this sell out bullshit from the mountain tops.
> >>but thanks to all of that, one of the valuable members of >this >>community is being flown around the country as a >professional >>DJ and being exposed in a way which can set his career >>straight for a minute because of it. Does that mean I'm >going >>to start championing McD's? Fuck now. but I'll be damned >if >>I call R-Tistic a sell out for my own views. >> > >People think being associated with a company = selling out.
no
but associationg w/ a company actively engaged in a large scale industry you built your career on criticising can be legitimately viewed as seling out
>There is so much more to it than that. > >I remember people were calling Macklemore a sell out because >of the NBA All-Star promos using the song Wings.
it was the blatant sacrifice of his professed belief in a song
>Personally, I understood their position but I also knew >exactly what Macklemore was going to say. > >And sure enough he said that doing the promo and having to >change a few words in order to not put down Nike was still a >win-win for him because he A) got to do a commercial for the >NBA which he is a fan of and
so he went against his stated beliefs bc he likes basketball
B) he got to push more people to >download his song Wings which had the original lyrics so his >point got across either way.
so he got paid
>To some degree it's understanding the sell out move and >pimping it for your own gain.
exactly, he pimped himself & sold out his professed views for "his own gain"
definition of selling out
>And it doesn't matter that the gain was money because coupled >with that was the fact he got his message across to a wider >range of people any way.
what message?
that message was more important to get across than the integrity of his beliefs?
his message isnt watered down by contradicting himself & changing words to get paid off an association w/ a company whose products he mocked others for buying in song?
>And I say this without liking that song and being "whatever" >on Macklemore. Although that song would've been dope if over >some classic Primo boom bap. > >Selling out is not just about letting a company use your song. > It's more than that and it is more about the artists' >reasoning or viewpoint on it.
reasoning? or excuse/justification?
And no one here knows Bob Dylan >that I know of so no one can really say what his intentions or >reason were.
but we do know his music & his vague political leanings
im far from the only person that called zimmerman out for this
>Only ignorant people yell this sell out bullshit from the >mountain tops. >
nah man
you do not get to call ppl ignorant for having differing values than you or an artist or either inartfully expressing their own views
there is merit to my point & you dont have the authority to dismiss what im getting at as ignorance
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
it never even crossed my mind to consider rtistic a "sell out" but i can understand why its good for him while still being troubled that hip-hop is being used by mcd's (in a calculated fashion) to legitimize it's poison
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
>it never even crossed my mind to consider rtistic a "sell >out" but i can understand why its good for him while still >being troubled that hip-hop is being used by mcd's (in a >calculated fashion) to legitimize it's poison
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