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Subject: "Jean Grae vs Cam of the J.U.S.T.I.C.E League (via Twitter)" Previous topic | Next topic
Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16562 posts
Fri Jan-03-14 08:08 PM

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"Jean Grae vs Cam of the J.U.S.T.I.C.E League (via Twitter)"


  

          

She claims that dude stole her song and gave it to another artist.

@JeanGreasy
So I say that, I find a real ethical problem with someone stealing my work. We've had a conversation about it and... yeah no. Not okay.

@JeanGreasy
U&Me&EveryoneWeKnow 1/1/12 https://soundcloud.com/m-phazes/jean-grae-u-me-everyone-we VS Holy, Holy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC1eLqUZGKo Vic Mensa/Ab-Soul/BJ prod Cam J.U.S.T.I.C.E. League

@JeanGreasy
So, not that it's just the same chords, or the same bass, or the same piano runs, cause it is. But the same KEY? C'mon. So, JUST, FUCK ME?

@JeanGreasy
What that says is, "nah.. no one gives a fuck about Jean Grae. I'ma just take the whole song. Make it a new song." Oh, okay.

@JeanGreasy
No. You can't steal music. Inspiration is one thing. Plagiarism is another. You got to get the entire fuck outta here Shia LaBeouf-ing me.

If you care you can read the other tweets here https://twitter.com/JeanGreasy

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Sounds like both producers got a hold of the same sample to me
Jan 03rd 2014
1
RE: Sounds like both producers got a hold of the same sample to me
Jan 03rd 2014
2
RE: There is no sample
Jan 04th 2014
3
      I remember Jean Grae performing this live on Sway In The Morning
Jan 04th 2014
6
      Thanks
Jan 04th 2014
9
      RE: There is no sample
Jan 05th 2014
10
that jean song is really good
Jan 04th 2014
4
That's the one silver lining out of this. I rarely check for her music
Jan 05th 2014
15
#teamJeangreezy
Jan 04th 2014
5
RE: Jean Grae vs Cam of the J.U.S.T.I.C.E League (via Twitter)
Jan 04th 2014
7
League should have to pay Jean back in beats...n/m
Jan 04th 2014
8
Jean deserves to be the most jaded rapper in the game
Jan 05th 2014
11
RE: Jean deserves to be the most jaded rapper in the game
Jan 05th 2014
14
that jean grae song is infinitely better
Jan 05th 2014
12
not the first time justice league stole something
Jan 05th 2014
13
Bink! went at Just Blaze on Twitter about biting his style
Jan 05th 2014
18
RE: Jean Grae vs Cam of the J.U.S.T.I.C.E League (via Twitter)
Jan 05th 2014
16
funny cuz Jean's song always sounded like "Imagine" to me
Jan 05th 2014
17
RE: Jean Grae vs Cam of the J.U.S.T.I.C.E League (via Twitter)
Jan 05th 2014
19
RE: Jean Grae vs Cam of the J.U.S.T.I.C.E League (via Twitter)
Feb 20th 2014
22
      really?
Feb 20th 2014
23
           RE: really?
Feb 21st 2014
24
Can one of you producers break it down for me?
Jan 05th 2014
20
listen to the first few seconds of the vic mensa track...
Feb 20th 2014
21

DaKidFromHaiti
Member since Feb 19th 2006
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Fri Jan-03-14 09:09 PM

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1. "Sounds like both producers got a hold of the same sample to me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Unless there is no sample.

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
23706 posts
Fri Jan-03-14 09:28 PM

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2. "RE: Sounds like both producers got a hold of the same sample to me"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

It appears to not be a sample. I don't see it on WhoSampled, that is.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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amplifya7
Member since Feb 07th 2010
2989 posts
Sat Jan-04-14 12:33 AM

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3. "RE: There is no sample"
In response to Reply # 1


          

The M-Phazes track credits a bunch of musicians on keys, bass, horns, so obviously those parts aren't sampled

Sonically, the two tracks are completely different, none of the instruments are the same...M-Phazes sounds like some live stuff, JUSTICE League sounds like all VSTs

Jean is saying if you were to write out the chords/bassline/melody flourishes, they're identical.

It seems too similar to possibly be a coincidence, which is pretty foul and bizarre of the JUSTICE League guy to have purposely replayed all that stuff.

With that being said, "You can't steal music. Inspiration is one thing. Plagiarism is another" in this context is kinda funny to say for an artist who's released a ton of music with long, uncleared samples. Hip hop production culture aside, is recreating someone elses melody without crediting them *that* much different than lifting a sample without crediting the original artist?

Bandcamp/IG/FB/Twitter: @hecticzeniths

  

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wisdom31
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Sat Jan-04-14 01:00 PM

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6. "I remember Jean Grae performing this live on Sway In The Morning"
In response to Reply # 3
Sat Jan-04-14 01:02 PM by wisdom31

  

          

This is such a dope joint that M-Phazes created for Greasy...I have a feeling that J.U.S.T.I.C.E. League got a hold of this song and decided to recreate it for the most part

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogz9BSS7xho

  

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Geah
Member since Feb 16th 2007
48400 posts
Sat Jan-04-14 07:54 PM

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9. "Thanks"
In response to Reply # 6


          

@geahuwine

  

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Thee Phantom
Member since Jul 18th 2005
2710 posts
Sun Jan-05-14 10:25 AM

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10. "RE: There is no sample"
In response to Reply # 3


          

> Hip hop production culture aside, is
>recreating someone elses melody without crediting them *that*
>much different than lifting a sample without crediting the
>original artist?

Only in the court of law and how much money separates sampling from interpolation. It's fundamentally the same thing. And I say that as someone who's replayed and re-scored quite a few tracks, primarily for the purpose of stretching out chord progression and live performance ability.

IG: @illharmonic.orchestra
Youtube: www.youtube.com/theephantom

  

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amplifya7
Member since Feb 07th 2010
2989 posts
Sat Jan-04-14 12:34 AM

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4. "that jean song is really good"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Bandcamp/IG/FB/Twitter: @hecticzeniths

  

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kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
11749 posts
Sun Jan-05-14 02:08 PM

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15. "That's the one silver lining out of this. I rarely check for her music"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

...so this was pleasant little surprise. The song is dope as hell.

  

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NoDrawls McGraw
Member since Jun 24th 2007
12122 posts
Sat Jan-04-14 05:12 AM

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5. "#teamJeangreezy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Sun clearly shark-finned her shit.

Ain't no grey areas on this one.

Get'eem Jean.






https://chriswind.bandcamp.com/track/massage

"You can take an African out of Africa, but you can't take Africa out of the African"
Afro-Americana/Afro-Caribbana/Afro-Latino unite. We are ALL Black!

  

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Wordman
Member since Apr 11th 2003
11224 posts
Sat Jan-04-14 07:14 PM

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7. "RE: Jean Grae vs Cam of the J.U.S.T.I.C.E League (via Twitter)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ0gC8hs0jE


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

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phemom
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
5120 posts
Sat Jan-04-14 07:39 PM

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8. "League should have to pay Jean back in beats...n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


          

phemom's the name, all-star writer/
searching 4 journalistic fame, mindframe igniter....www.twitter.com/hayabusaage

  

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spew120
Member since Oct 02nd 2005
4026 posts
Sun Jan-05-14 10:45 AM

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11. "Jean deserves to be the most jaded rapper in the game"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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boyd
Member since May 15th 2006
7654 posts
Sun Jan-05-14 01:23 PM

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14. "RE: Jean deserves to be the most jaded rapper in the game"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>

so agree
she is right up there
with mc lyte

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
16102 posts
Sun Jan-05-14 11:23 AM

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12. "that jean grae song is infinitely better"
In response to Reply # 0


          

like, if you gonna steal a track, at least try to make something of equal quality. That other track is just phoned in

  

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Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
6243 posts
Sun Jan-05-14 12:23 PM

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13. "not the first time justice league stole something"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

bink! had a problem with them biting one of his beats

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

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mrshow
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12567 posts
Sun Jan-05-14 05:41 PM

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18. "Bink! went at Just Blaze on Twitter about biting his style"
In response to Reply # 13


          

One of the more uncomfortable twitter exchanges I've seen.

  

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MajrLeaguer
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Sun Jan-05-14 03:56 PM

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16. "RE: Jean Grae vs Cam of the J.U.S.T.I.C.E League (via Twitter)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Y'all buggin, although Jean's MCing is superior between the two songs (and yes, there seems to be some "inspiration" on display via the Vic Mensa track), both respective songs are hella dope. Different approaches, but quality efforts on both ends.

Just chiming in on the seeming dismissal of the effort placed by JUSTICE League and crew. Might be biting, but they delivered solid work. Props definitely go to M-Phazes for his talent of course.

Twitter.com/djRBI
Instagram.com/DJ_RBI

"I'm That Guy", Mike G (J Beez)

  

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KennyFresh
Member since Mar 16th 2005
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Sun Jan-05-14 04:04 PM

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17. "funny cuz Jean's song always sounded like "Imagine" to me"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jan-05-14 04:04 PM by KennyFresh

  

          

Snoop feat. Dre & D'Angelo "Imagine" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGHEtHSmMSI




// Fresh Selects releases: http://freshselects.com
Mndsgn - Breatharian tape out now http://bit.ly/FSX001_

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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Sun Jan-05-14 09:27 PM

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19. "RE: Jean Grae vs Cam of the J.U.S.T.I.C.E League (via Twitter)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I mean....

Ionno man. Unless she knows 100% for sure young cam heard her shit.. Them's just chords man.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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mashibeats
Member since Oct 08th 2008
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Thu Feb-20-14 07:22 PM

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22. "RE: Jean Grae vs Cam of the J.U.S.T.I.C.E League (via Twitter)"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

those chords are super specific - i learned the whole thing for a live performance of it with jean. there is no way in this world that two people would randomly come up with the same progression with no differences. the same bass notes, possibly, but the same specific qualities to each chord ? no way. no how.

--

MARK de CLIVE-LOWE | @MdCL
http://MdCL.tv

  

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Jon
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Thu Feb-20-14 10:56 PM

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23. "really? "
In response to Reply # 22
Thu Feb-20-14 10:58 PM by Jon

          

a: i doubt there's no way in the world that happens, its not like 12 different chords going on there, or some super exotic use of them, but ok let's say you're right...

b: its just a chord progression. SO MANY of the great musical works in human history (from folk to classical to jazz to soul) either took the chord progression from another song or often took entire melodies and everything. We'd be missing so much great historical music if people were this anal back when music was understood as a cultural exchange.

c: like someone else alluded to...does Jean clear all her samples? Does everyone she admires? This is nothing new

d: both songs stand on their own and the latter certainly doesn't come off like another version of Jean's song. Why not coexist? Is it about royalties? ^^ C ?

And I'm a big time Jean Grae fan. She might be on my top 5 emcees period list on certain days, and never exists the top 10. I just think this is kinda silly

  

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mashibeats
Member since Oct 08th 2008
440 posts
Fri Feb-21-14 01:57 AM

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24. "RE: really? "
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

here is the exact transcription i made of jean's track:

http://mashibeats.com/images/umejean.jpg

when you write notes down on paper, there can be no misinterpretation of what they are. the subtle qualities of each chord are determined by specific note placements. each subsequent chord is a decisive statement by the composer. there's nothing random about this creation.

the cam produced joint is exactly the same thing, verbatim. no change in rhythm of the chord placements, no change in the specific exact notes that make up each chord.

there *are* common chord progressions and sequences in music, but every creator brings something of themselves to them to the extent that you get completely different pieces of music as a result. this is the same as if i played the rhodes break from minnie riperton's inside my love and didnt say it was that. now, i can be creative and take those chords as an inspiration and create a new musical idea influenced by it, but if i was to play them using the same notes as on the original and in the same sequence and rhythmic pattern, then there's no question what i'm playing. that is the law of physics when it comes to harmony, melody and rhythm.

charlie parker often took pop tunes of the day and rewrote his own compositions over them. if you listened close enough you could hear the root of where his composition came from, but you could also very clearly hear his composition and where the idea has been embodied and evolved by him without reservation.

re the 'sample': it isnt a sample on jean's track. it's original music. it's a totally different issue to when someone uses a sample and doesnt clear it. this would be a much clearer case if he HAD sampled her track. but to go to great lengths to recreate it's musicality verbatim ?!?

it's about intellectual property and integrity. i would be a little flattered if that happened to me, but if there was zero acknowledgement i'd have to take issue with it. that's just a diss. as a composer, my legacy is my creations. my intellectual property. it's protected by law because it is a thing of value.

>a: i doubt there's no way in the world that happens, its not
>like 12 different chords going on there, or some super exotic
>use of them, but ok let's say you're right...
>
>b: its just a chord progression. SO MANY of the great musical
>works in human history (from folk to classical to jazz to
>soul) either took the chord progression from another song or
>often took entire melodies and everything. We'd be missing so
>much great historical music if people were this anal back when
>music was understood as a cultural exchange.
>
>c: like someone else alluded to...does Jean clear all her
>samples? Does everyone she admires? This is nothing new
>
>d: both songs stand on their own and the latter certainly
>doesn't come off like another version of Jean's song. Why not
>coexist? Is it about royalties? ^^ C ?
>
>And I'm a big time Jean Grae fan. She might be on my top 5
>emcees period list on certain days, and never exists the top
>10. I just think this is kinda silly

--

MARK de CLIVE-LOWE | @MdCL
http://MdCL.tv

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28763 posts
Sun Jan-05-14 09:57 PM

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20. "Can one of you producers break it down for me?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I hear a small similarity but not flat out theft.

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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Seven
Member since Dec 11th 2004
10708 posts
Thu Feb-20-14 03:36 PM

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21. "listen to the first few seconds of the vic mensa track..."
In response to Reply # 20


          

....listen to what's playing minus the drums...
those chords are played in a particular order and timing...

listen to jean grae's version from like 1:20....listen to what's playing..minus the drums...
same chord progression (order that the chords are played in)...progressions often set the emotional tone of the record...invoke a feeling..

the keyboard sounds are different....the drums and additional sounds are different..but same progression..

  

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