Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby The Lesson topic #2863234

Subject: "I just saw Mo Betta Blues... I'm skeptical..." Previous topic | Next topic
weirdscience
Member since Jun 02nd 2007
560 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 03:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via ICQ
"I just saw Mo Betta Blues... I'm skeptical..."
Thu Dec-26-13 03:39 PM by weirdscience

  

          

I don't know if this goes to GD, but it's a music question so bare with me...


Are Denzel and Wesley "playing" authentically? / Does Denzel just look goofy to me in that scene where he's kind of skating his horn playing or is that a fairly authentic interpretation of that practice?

Was that a point of contention when the film came out?

Do you think if this movie had been made today, would we be seeing more obscure jazz cats than Coltrane getting heavy mention?

Also if you watch the last scene with Clarke singing at the end, am I supposed to find this chick attractive making all these crazy ass faces and singing about Harlem...or is that performance the affirmation that Denzel didn't need that chick in the first place cuz all she does on stage is make wild ass faces.


THANKS, hope to hear from y'all.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: I just saw Mo Betta Blues... I'm skeptical...
Dec 26th 2013
1
I didn't get this at all.
Dec 26th 2013
2
      W.C Handy wrote those 'personal ass lyrics' in 1923.
Dec 26th 2013
4
           *blinks*
Dec 26th 2013
6
                I can see where this is going...
Dec 26th 2013
7
                Its time for you to evolve as an Afrikan.
Dec 26th 2013
8
                     oh right.
Dec 26th 2013
9
                          Checkmate!
Dec 27th 2013
12
                          LOL -- now you diverting, backtracking and changing the argument
Dec 27th 2013
15
                          RE: oh right.
Dec 27th 2013
19
                               Bwhahaah nigga you still mad from that other post?
Dec 27th 2013
20
                                    RE: Bwhahaah nigga you still mad from that other post?
Dec 28th 2013
23
                                         You post like HITLER playing chess in Harlem
Dec 28th 2013
27
                why are you so mean?
Dec 26th 2013
11
                You want a hug, bro?
Dec 27th 2013
16
                     eh, aside from family i only like to be hugged by ppl w/ titties
Dec 27th 2013
18
                Man, I thought *I* was an asshole lol.
Dec 28th 2013
24
I just got finished watching 2 clips on youtube
Dec 26th 2013
3
Thanks for the enlightening discussion
Dec 26th 2013
5
RE: I just saw Mo Betta Blues... I'm skeptical...
Dec 26th 2013
10
And for the record
Dec 27th 2013
13
      You have too much free time on your hands.
Dec 27th 2013
14
           RE: You have too much free time on your hands.
Dec 27th 2013
17
                The Wash was better than Mo Better Blues
Dec 27th 2013
21
                     RE: The Wash was better than Mo Better Blues
Dec 27th 2013
22
                          RE: The Wash was better than Mo Better Blues
Dec 28th 2013
25
I can only speak for one of Denzel's/Bleek's scenes
Dec 28th 2013
26
RE: I can only speak for one of Denzel's/Bleek's scenes
Dec 31st 2013
28

AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 04:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
1. "RE: I just saw Mo Betta Blues... I'm skeptical..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Are Denzel and Wesley "playing" authentically? / Does Denzel
>just look goofy to me in that scene where he's kind of skating
>his horn playing or is that a fairly authentic interpretation
>of that practice?

Apparently they both studied fingering... it's probably not 100% on-point, but it's not manual gibberish either. I haven't watched the movie in a while, though... I'd have to check it out today to see how I feel about how authentic the playing *looks*... I remember thinking back then that they seemed pretty comfortable *holding* their instruments at least, which is something I tend to notice in movies.

>Was that a point of contention when the film came out?

As I said above, I do recall them talking about how they really studied to make all the playing look real. And I think Branford and some other cats praised the authenticity. (Of course, Branford is Spike's man and worked on the movie too). I think I vaguely remember some jazz cat criticizing Denzel's embouchure, but I'm not sure...

>Do you think if this movie had been made today, would we be
>seeing more obscure jazz cats than Coltrane getting heavy
>mention?

ummm... not if it were made by Spike Lee.

>Also if you watch the last scene with Clarke singing at the
>end, am I supposed to find this chick attractive making all
>these crazy ass faces and singing about Harlem...or is that
>performance the affirmation that Denzel didn't need that chick
>in the first place cuz all she does on stage is make wild ass
>faces.

That scene was highly problematic because Cynda Williams' singing really was not that good. Not in the pop context and certainly not the jazz context. Bleek is supposed to be feeling that he was wrong not to have taken her talent seriously because she can really SING (I think it even says that in the script) but she's just NOT that good.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 05:07 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "I didn't get this at all. "
In response to Reply # 1
Thu Dec-26-13 05:08 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>That scene was highly problematic because Cynda Williams'
>singing really was not that good. Not in the pop context and
>certainly not the jazz context. Bleek is supposed to be
>feeling that he was wrong not to have taken her talent
>seriously because she can really SING (I think it even says
>that in the script) but she's just NOT that good.

I didn't think we were supposed to be blown away by the quality
of her voice at all. Its a nice little lounge song, with lounge
jazz caliber singing (the venue wasn't no super ritzy shit, but
a pretty good jazz club). Its poignant because of those personal
ass lyrics, and she looks goofy because the bitch is basically
breaking down on the mic. Its actually above average acting
because no bitch looks sultry and divine while singing an emotional
song to a nigga who is standing right there (no matter how fine
she is). That was an organic, believable-ass scene.

Geez, guys.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 05:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
4. "W.C Handy wrote those 'personal ass lyrics' in 1923."
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Dec-26-13 05:30 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

>I didn't think we were supposed to be blown away by the
>quality
>of her voice at all. Its a nice little lounge song, with
>lounge
>jazz caliber singing (the venue wasn't no super ritzy shit,
>but
>a pretty good jazz club). Its poignant because of those
>personal
>ass lyrics, and she looks goofy because the bitch is
>basically
>breaking down on the mic. Its actually above average acting
>because no bitch looks sultry and divine while singing an
>emotional
>song to a nigga who is standing right there (no matter how
>fine
>she is). That was an organic, believable-ass scene.
>
>Geez, guys.

I'm not sure if you realize that the song she was singing was actually a jazz standard, though with a retrofitted melodic structure. And there was no narrative indication that she was singing the song to Bleek either.

Spike said that his intention was to show that Clarke (and Cynda Williams) was actually a good singer. Now that I think about it, that scene was not even in the original script but Spike added it later because he felt it was a good scene dramatically (which it was) and also because he wanted to promote Cynda as a singer signed to his 40 Acres & a Mule label. If Spike thought enough of her singing to sign her, I'm sure the intention was to show her as a good singer in the movie as well.

EDIT: Also, the club IS supposed to be somewhat ritzy, compared to what it was like at the beginning of the movie. You'll recall that Bleek was all about trying to keep jazz "Black" while Shadow wanted to be more commercial... at the end, it's seen that the audience is much larger and more diverse, indicating that Shadow's approach was successful. Bleek realizes that Shadow won... and that Clarke can actually sing. He sees that his problem all along was that he couldn't hear anybody else's music but his own.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 06:15 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "*blinks* "
In response to Reply # 4


  

          



>I'm not sure if you realize that the song she was singing was
>actually a jazz standard, though with a retrofitted melodic
>structure.

wait -- so my homegirl didn't write that 'Natural Woman'
song I heard her sing to her hubby at a wedding a few months
back? I thought she was crying because she wrote it.























Stupid ass nigga.

And there was no narrative indication that she was
>singing the song to Bleek either.

Other than the fact that she's staring *dead* at him while
she's singing and getting emotional?

LOL.

Good lord.

>Spike said that his intention was to show that Clarke (and
>Cynda Williams) was actually a good singer. Now that I think
>about it, that scene was not even in the original script but
>Spike added it later because he felt it was a good scene
>dramatically (which it was) and also because he wanted to
>promote Cynda as a singer signed to his 40 Acres & a Mule
>label. If Spike thought enough of her singing to sign her, I'm
>sure the intention was to show her as a good singer in the
>movie as well.

Nobody cares -

Singing the song was cathartic for her. That's her former
man, who didn't pay her attention, broke her heart, and got
the shit beat out of him. Its not a malicious "I'll show you"
singing, its "I appreciate you, still love and care about you"
singing. Its really not that difficult to fucking understand.

>EDIT: Also, the club IS supposed to be somewhat ritzy,
>compared to what it was like at the beginning of the movie.

LOL -- nigger -- its not Carnegie Hall. Its a nice, evening
Jazz club. You have that caliber of singer in those jazz clubs,
because attitude, pizazz and sass are the appeal of singers in
those settings just as much as pure vocals. She obviously has
chemistry with the band, and they probably work well together.
That = a good jazz singer. This has always been the case.

>You'll recall that Bleek was all about trying to keep jazz
>"Black" while Shadow wanted to be more commercial... at the
>end, it's seen that the audience is much larger and more
>diverse, indicating that Shadow's approach was successful.
>Bleek realizes that Shadow won... and that Clarke can actually
>sing. He sees that his problem all along was that he couldn't
>hear anybody else's music but his own.

LOL

How the fuck do you under-analyze basic shit and overanalyze
wrong shit?

Jesus, you're STILL doing this in 2013? Do you ever correctly
analyze anything?


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 06:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
7. "I can see where this is going..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>wait -- so my homegirl didn't write that 'Natural Woman'
>song I heard her sing to her hubby at a wedding a few months
>back? I thought she was crying because she wrote it.

The lyrics may have had personal resonance for her, but they were not "personal lyrics." May seem like a purely semantic distinction, but it's a relevant one.

That much being said, if you listen to the lyrics they don't seem to reflect the situation between Bleek and Clarke much at all.


>And there was no narrative indication that she was
>>singing the song to Bleek either.
>
>Other than the fact that she's staring *dead* at him while
>she's singing and getting emotional?
>
>LOL.

Except she's not doing either one of those things.

http://youtu.be/Me3-NI1xfYo

There's nothing in the blocking, the camera moves, the editing or the acting that infers she's singing to Bleek, and she does not appear any more emotional than one would expect a singer to project during the performance of a ballad.

And her chemistry seems to be directed towards Wesley. That's the dude she's connecting with there... not Denzel.


>>Spike said that his intention was to show that Clarke (and
>>Cynda Williams) was actually a good singer. Now that I think
>>about it, that scene was not even in the original script but
>>Spike added it later because he felt it was a good scene
>>dramatically (which it was) and also because he wanted to
>>promote Cynda as a singer signed to his 40 Acres & a Mule
>>label. If Spike thought enough of her singing to sign her,
>I'm
>>sure the intention was to show her as a good singer in the
>>movie as well.
>
>Nobody cares -

Of course you don't care, because it completely demolishes whatever stupid point you think you're making and which you will continue to defend (as is your wont) in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

But for the sake of those who actually value concrete evidence over delusion, here's a quote from Spike on his intentions in the scene:

"You'll notice 'Harlem Blues' is not scripted. I never made a formal revision to the script, but it was added after I decided that Clarke should be a good singer and not just a wannabee {sic}. Raymond's arrangement of 'Harlem Blues' had been in the back of my mind for a year. Not only is it a great song, but it was the perfect vehicle for Cynda Williams' debut as a singer."


>Singing the song was cathartic for her. That's her former
>man, who didn't pay her attention, broke her heart, and got
>the shit beat out of him. Its not a malicious "I'll show you"
>singing, its "I appreciate you, still love and care about
>you"
>singing. Its really not that difficult to fucking understand.

It's really neither one of those. It's her just singing a song as a professional, not to spite Bleek... though Bleek's expression shows that he realizes he was wrong. She doesn't even particularly acknowledge that he's there while she's singing... which makes it worse, because Bleek realizes he's irrelevant now.


>LOL -- nigger -- its not Carnegie Hall. Its a nice, evening
>Jazz club. You have that caliber of singer in those jazz
>clubs,
>because attitude, pizazz and sass are the appeal of singers
>in
>those settings just as much as pure vocals. She obviously has
>chemistry with the band, and they probably work well
>together.
>That = a good jazz singer. This has always been the case.

Funny thing is that I'm just talking about shit that actually happens in the movie, and citing things that the writer/director of the movie said he was intending in the movie and you claim that I'm overanalyzing shit... meanwhile, you've moved outside the movie to start analyzing (badly btw) what supposedly makes a good jazz singer... None of that shit has anything to do with the movie.

Personally, I don't think Cynda's singing was that good. It was not bad, but neither was it as good as the scene wanted it to be. That's my opinion, though, and really neither here nor there as it concerns the bigger picture.

(I'll thank you not to refer to me by "nigger" btw... I realize that it's your trollish proclivity to try to get under people's skins but I really don't have time for that game. I felt like engaging in a civil discussion about one of my favorite films, but if you want to take things *that way* I will not go with you)

>>You'll recall that Bleek was all about trying to keep jazz
>>"Black" while Shadow wanted to be more commercial... at the
>>end, it's seen that the audience is much larger and more
>>diverse, indicating that Shadow's approach was successful.
>>Bleek realizes that Shadow won... and that Clarke can
>actually
>>sing. He sees that his problem all along was that he
>couldn't
>>hear anybody else's music but his own.
>
>LOL
>
>How the fuck do you under-analyze basic shit and overanalyze
>wrong shit?
>
>Jesus, you're STILL doing this in 2013? Do you ever correctly
>analyze anything?

I'm actually referencing lines of dialogue from the movie and not pulling shit out of my ass about what makes a good jazz singer or what level of good jazz singing accrues to venues of various sizes. Deal with it.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 07:17 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "Its time for you to evolve as an Afrikan. "
In response to Reply # 7
Thu Dec-26-13 07:36 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          


>The lyrics may have had personal resonance for her, but they
>were not "personal lyrics." May seem like a purely semantic
>distinction, but it's a relevant one.

Lol

No, its an idiot distinction from someone who thinks that
they need to tell me that Cynda Williams didn't write a 60 year
old song, for the love of god.

She is singing the lyrics with personal resonance, and the
choice of THAT song isn't random. She could have sung any
fucking song, and sung THAT one. From within the story, it
fits. From the filmmakers perspective, it fits.

It fits unless you're an insecure overanalyzer.

>That much being said, if you listen to the lyrics they don't
>seem to reflect the situation between Bleek and Clarke much at
>all.

Jesus Christ.

Stop it.

Yes, they do.


>Except she's not doing either one of those things.
>
>http://youtu.be/Me3-NI1xfYo
>
>There's nothing in the blocking, the camera moves, the editing
>or the acting that infers she's singing to Bleek, and she does
>not appear any more emotional than one would expect a singer
>to project during the performance of a ballad.

She's staring dead at Bleek the minute the she notices him
standing there, sparky. That's how the song ends.


>And her chemistry seems to be directed towards Wesley. That's
>the dude she's connecting with there... not Denzel.

That's because Denzel isn't in the fucking club when she
starts singing, for god's sakes.

>Of course you don't care, because it completely demolishes
>whatever stupid point you think you're making and which you
>will continue to defend (as is your wont) in spite of all
>evidence to the contrary.

Negroid-

You're over here nitpicking the quality of her singing,
talked about how it ruined the scene.

No, it didn't.

Like, at all.

>But for the sake of those who actually value concrete evidence
>over delusion, here's a quote from Spike on his intentions in
>the scene:
>
>"You'll notice 'Harlem Blues' is not scripted. I never made a
>formal revision to the script, but it was added after I
>decided that Clarke should be a good singer and not just a
>wannabee {sic}. Raymond's arrangement of 'Harlem Blues' had
>been in the back of my mind for a year. Not only is it a great
>song, but it was the perfect vehicle for Cynda Williams' debut
>as a singer."

LOL -- that doesn't mean her singing was random and wasn't
constructed to fit within the landscape of the story. That
film is a masterpiece, full of unscripted and organic energy
that was worked in nicely.

Shush.


>It's really neither one of those. It's her just singing a song
>as a professional, not to spite Bleek...

LOL -- nobody said that, dumb nigga.

though Bleek's
>expression shows that he realizes he was wrong. She doesn't
>even particularly acknowledge that he's there while she's
>singing... which makes it worse, because Bleek realizes he's
>irrelevant now.

Yes, she does. And his performance that night is PLANNED,
which means she knows he's going to be there *ahead* of
time.


>Funny thing is that I'm just talking about shit that actually
>happens in the movie, and citing things that the
>writer/director of the movie said he was intending in the
>movie and you claim that I'm overanalyzing shit... meanwhile,
>you've moved outside the movie to start analyzing (badly btw)
>what supposedly makes a good jazz singer... None of that shit
>has anything to do with the movie.

Nah, you're overanalyzing.

>Personally, I don't think Cynda's singing was that good. It
>was not bad, but neither was it as good as the scene wanted it
>to be. That's my opinion, though, and really neither here nor
>there as it concerns the bigger picture.


Lol


>(I'll thank you not to refer to me by "nigger" btw... I
>realize that it's your trollish proclivity to try to get under
>people's skins but I really don't have time for that game. I
>felt like engaging in a civil discussion about one of my
>favorite films, but if you want to take things *that way* I
>will not go with you)

Lol


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 07:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
9. "oh right."
In response to Reply # 8
Thu Dec-26-13 07:57 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

>No, its an idiot distinction from someone who thinks that
>Cynda Williams didn't write a 60 year old song, for the love
>of god.

She didn't write it. Neither did Clarke Betancourt. So, uh... if I think she didn't write it... that's correct, yeah?

>She is singing the lyrics with personal resonance, and the
>choice of THAT song isn't random. She could have sung any
>fucking song, and sung THAT one. From within the story, it
>fits. From the filmmakers perspective, it fits.

Except that from the filmmaker's perspective, he has stated that the purpose of that scene was to show that Clarke was a good singer and to showcase the vocal talent of the actress Cynda Williams... not to serve as any kind of emotional peak between Bleek and Clarke. Again, I am just stating what is in the film and what the filmmaker himself said was his intention. I don't know what you are backing yourself up with.

That said, I would like to flag your statement "the choice of THAT song isn't random"... It will become relevant later.

>It fits unless you're an insecure overanalyzer.

Or someone who just cites what's actually on the screen/in the script rather than injecting all sorts of extraneous readings.


>She's staring dead at Bleek the minute the she notices him
>standing there, sparky. That's how the song ends.

No she's not. At various points she's looking at various directions in the audience. Other times, she's looking at Wesley. She's entertaining the audience. She doesn't appear fixated on Denzel and her performance does not seem particularly overwrought with heavy emotion. If you look at her attitude as Denzel comes to the stage, it is cordial but not much more than that.

>
>>And her chemistry seems to be directed towards Wesley.
>That's
>>the dude she's connecting with there... not Denzel.
>
>That's because Denzel isn't in the fucking club when she
>starts singing, for god's sakes.

And here's where that previously flagged statement becomes relevant.

So... you say that the song choice is not random, it's a deliberate statement directed at Bleek--who isn't even in the club at the time she starts singing? Who she could not have even known was going to arrive at the club at the time she was singing? But she chose the song specifically as a message to him?

How does that work?

And yet, even after Denzel comes into the club, her energy continues to be directed towards Wesley, smiling in his direction rather than appearing emotional or fixated on about Denzel in the audience?

What's up with that?


>>Of course you don't care, because it completely demolishes
>>whatever stupid point you think you're making and which you
>>will continue to defend (as is your wont) in spite of all
>>evidence to the contrary.
>
>Negroid-
>
>You're over here nitpicking the quality of her singing,
>talked about how it ruined the scene.

Yeah... I don't think her singing is that good. MY OPINION. However, I never said that it "ruined" the scene. I said that it did not sufficiently carry the message that Spike says he wanted it to. The fact that you're up here misinterpreting the scene and justifying the gentle mediocrity of her singing in terms of the supposed quality of the club is probably testament that it didn't properly convey what Spike wanted it to.


>LOL -- that doesn't mean her singing was random and wasn't
>constructed to fit within the landscape of the story. That
>film is a masterpiece, full of unscripted and organic energy
>that was worked in nicely.

I agree with you that the film is a masterpiece.

But I never said that her singing was "random"--I have no idea where you got that. The point is that Spike added the scene because he wanted to show that Clarke actually was a good singer and that Bleek had been wrong not to take her seriously.

Throughout the movie, Clarke and Shadow are chastising Bleek for being up his own ass, unwilling to hear other people's music.

Now he's listening to Clarke's (and Shadow's) music for the first time and he's realizing that he should have listened before. He's looking and seeing that they're playing in a bigger club and to a wider audience than he did when he was the leader. He's seeing that he's no longer relevant. He goes up to play, and he can't even do that anymore.

So he throws away his horn and runs to beg a woman to save his life.

That's what the scene is about.

>>It's really neither one of those. It's her just singing a
>song
>>as a professional, not to spite Bleek...
>
>LOL -- nobody said that, dumb nigga.

Actually, you did.

>though Bleek's
>>expression shows that he realizes he was wrong. She doesn't
>>even particularly acknowledge that he's there while she's
>>singing... which makes it worse, because Bleek realizes he's
>>irrelevant now.
>
>Yes, she does. And his performance that night is PLANNED,
>which means she knows he's going to be there *ahead* of
>time.

She knows he's going to be there that night... but does she know exactly WHEN he's gonna arrive?

So she just started singing the song (which is meant to be directed at him) in the hopes that he'd arrive RIGHT at that moment?

Please. Give Mr. Lee a little credit. He has some annoying narrative habits but he would never write some amateur bullshit like that.


>Nah, you're overanalyzing.

All I have done is cited lines from the movie and statements by the director about the story he intended to tell.

All you are doing is talking about stuff that isn't in the movie, projecting your own emotions and all that.

Who is overanalyzing here?


(This is my last reply to you in this particular thread btw)

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
ODotSoHot
Member since Apr 02nd 2013
1171 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 12:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "Checkmate!"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>>That's because Denzel isn't in the fucking club when she
>>starts singing, for god's sakes.
>
>And here's where that previously flagged statement becomes
>relevant.
>
>So... you say that the song choice is not random, it's a
>deliberate statement directed at Bleek--who isn't even in the
>club at the time she starts singing? Who she could not have
>even known was going to arrive at the club at the time she was
>singing? But she chose the song specifically as a message to
>him?
>
>How does that work?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 08:24 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "LOL -- now you diverting, backtracking and changing the argument"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          


Lol

We are discussing this because you talked about how the
quality of her singing ruined the scene.

I said that it didn't, because the caliber of singing
is perfectly good for that venue, and many jazz singers
in similar places don't sing much better. This is a
fact.

Secondly, I said that the scene and choice of song
were there to generate a cinematic moment between her
and Bleek, which it did. That isn't even debatable.
It absolutely created a moment of connection between
her and him.

You said the choice of song and the whole 9 were *only* there
to promote Cynda Williams as a singer....LOL.....no, nigga.
The choice of song, the choice of shot, the whole early part
of the scene was constructed to fit within the landscape of
the story.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 05:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "RE: oh right."
In response to Reply # 9
Fri Dec-27-13 05:38 PM by COOLEHMAGAZINE

          

This is great.


OE wrong and scrambling to deny it is always fun.


Because he will literally say/do anything.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 05:42 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "Bwhahaah nigga you still mad from that other post? "
In response to Reply # 19


  

          


You gonna call me HITLER again?


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Sat Dec-28-13 12:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "RE: Bwhahaah nigga you still mad from that other post? "
In response to Reply # 20


          

>
>You gonna call me HITLER again?


Are you insane? That's my favorite post in the whole forum. I intend to up it in perpetuity.


Your refusal to admit you are wrong often extends to the point of making a fool of yourself, much as you have done here.

Bravo!

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Dec-28-13 09:29 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "You post like HITLER playing chess in Harlem"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 11:24 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "why are you so mean? "
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 08:24 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "You want a hug, bro? "
In response to Reply # 11


  

          


I'm serious

Where do you live?


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 09:27 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "eh, aside from family i only like to be hugged by ppl w/ titties"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

not man boobs & a sandy vagina

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
thebadnegro
Member since Nov 13th 2006
4028 posts
Sat Dec-28-13 12:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "Man, I thought *I* was an asshole lol."
In response to Reply # 6


          

i actually thought his explanation was pretty on point, insofar as anyone can be "right" about a topic such as this one.

very interesting thread overall though.






... i'm sayin tho fam... u need some pussy. not no small titty broad either. chic wit some melons and a fat ass, so u can let out some of that pent up aggression.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ProgressiveSound
Member since Mar 11th 2003
2055 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 05:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "I just got finished watching 2 clips on youtube"
In response to Reply # 0


          

First was the title track performance with Denzel and Wesley.
I paid attention to Denzel's playing/fingers,etc and thought
it looked authentic enough.
Damn good scene .. good music.

Then I saw Cynda's Harlem Blues performance. Yeah she was making funny
looking faces but you know she looked good. Lol

Also, I thought her singing was perfect in capturing the emotions of the song. Great song in my opinion

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
weirdscience
Member since Jun 02nd 2007
560 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 05:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via ICQ
5. "Thanks for the enlightening discussion"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

much appreciated.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Wordman
Member since Apr 11th 2003
11224 posts
Thu Dec-26-13 10:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "RE: I just saw Mo Betta Blues... I'm skeptical..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>I don't know if this goes to GD, but it's a music question so
>bare with me...
>
>
>Are Denzel and Wesley "playing" authentically? / Does Denzel
>just look goofy to me in that scene where he's kind of skating
>his horn playing or is that a fairly authentic interpretation
>of that practice?

It's fairly authentic. All the band did a pretty good job of "looking like they can play."

>Was that a point of contention when the film came out?

No. The biggest point of contention of the film was that it wasn't DO THE RIGHT THING, Spike Lee's previous movie. Many saw MO' BETTER BLUES as something of a let down.

>Do you think if this movie had been made today, would we be
>seeing more obscure jazz cats than Coltrane getting heavy
>mention?

No, I think we'd get pretty much the same movie we have now.

>Also if you watch the last scene with Clarke singing at the
>end, am I supposed to find this chick attractive making all
>these crazy ass faces and singing about Harlem...or is that
>performance the affirmation that Denzel didn't need that chick
>in the first place cuz all she does on stage is make wild ass
>faces.

What you're supposed to take away from it is 2 things.
One, she was more than talented enough to get the band success (something Denzel's character doesn't completely believe, as seen in the bedroom scene). You see how they're playing in a very nice, upscale jazz venue with her as opposed to the tiny spot they were playing when Denzel was leading the band.
Two, the band has moved on without Denzel. The classic argument Wesley and Denzel have about people coming out to see them play - well, Wesley's proven right. "If you play the shit that they like, people will come." And the people came to hear that Sade-sounding jazz, not what he was playing.
The scene has no sexual, romantic, or relationship meaning.

>THANKS, hope to hear from y'all.


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
weirdscience
Member since Jun 02nd 2007
560 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 01:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via ICQ
13. "And for the record"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I understood the narrative...I was just making light of how crazy her face was going. Spike could have used more cuts.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
1702 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 01:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "You have too much free time on your hands."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

It's a movie, they're actors. You want 100% realness go to a jazz club. Most people don't look sexy when they're holding back tears and emotional.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
weirdscience
Member since Jun 02nd 2007
560 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 08:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via ICQ
17. "RE: You have too much free time on your hands."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

brah, I been on here since 2007 and I got 500 some posts, you been on here since 2010 and got a 1,000 some posts, lets not go tit for tat on who got how much free time. If I want to say the girl looked crazy, and believe me she did, I got a right.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
1702 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 07:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "The Wash was better than Mo Better Blues"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

The actors washed the the cars with authenticity.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
weirdscience
Member since Jun 02nd 2007
560 posts
Fri Dec-27-13 10:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via ICQ
22. "RE: The Wash was better than Mo Better Blues"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

well I have no argument that I personally enjoyed The Wash more than Mo Better Blues.... It was a nit picky question, sure, but sometimes you just want to know.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Kid Ray
Member since Sep 23rd 2010
1702 posts
Sat Dec-28-13 12:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "RE: The Wash was better than Mo Better Blues"
In response to Reply # 22
Sat Dec-28-13 12:47 AM by Kid Ray

  

          

>I personally enjoyed The Wash
>more than Mo Better Blues.

No surprise there

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Verbal Tec
Member since Mar 15th 2004
132 posts
Sat Dec-28-13 09:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
26. "I can only speak for one of Denzel's/Bleek's scenes"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I played the trumpet throughout grade school and learned the title song "Mo Better Blues." His fingerings are all accurate and I didnt notice until I learned the song and watched it again.

_______________________________

"the true path to creativity is to burn out" - Jean Michel Basquiat

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
princeguy
Charter member
977 posts
Tue Dec-31-13 09:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "RE: I can only speak for one of Denzel's/Bleek's scenes"
In response to Reply # 26


          

Mo' Betta Blues is a classic.

One of my favs of all time

Denzel, Wesley, and Spike...wow.

Princeguy reviews:

"No pretentiousness.

No pompous re-interpretations.

Sometimes, a movie is just a movie. You work hard for your money.

The decision is yours.

See and enjoy what YOU like."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby The Lesson topic #2863234 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com