Even with all the tools that have made every nerd and hipster try their hand at the shit.

Who in the game has been more genius in their chopping ability?

Who has had better drums selection on their beats since Dilla?

Who has been able to transform their style / have an unpredictable range?

The answer is nobody...it's amazing how you can listen to 15 year old Dilla beats that are still light years ahead of what cats tryna do now

pretty much for this generation.

One of the things I can't stand most about Hip Hop is the "dead homie" narrative.
God Bless The Dead...OF COURSE.

But the living?
Tupac & Biggie became THE GOSPEL to a legion of LATE SCRUBS because they died.
If they lived they more than likely would've come & gone just like the greats before them and after....

The more popular Hip Hop became and the more accepted in Popular Culture, the more it created new wide-eyed enthusiastic LATE ASS SCRUBS!!!

You still got people catching up to WHO JAY DILLA WAS! but NOT what Jay was doing because these m.f.'s don't know how to dig/chop/program/rhyme...they just know "JAY DILLA IS THE G.O.A.T." & Hip Hop is "cool".

Same folks that'll tell you/wanna argue "MF DOOM IS THE GREATEST" but ain't never heard Peachfuzz, don't know KMD from a can of paint, etc.

They like the HYPE and could care less about the context of the art or the artist.

It's basically scrubs tryna style on scrubs. (Hi Hipsterdouchebots)

I know hella record collectors...these m.f.'s don't fuck with Dilla's music, but they are aware of some of the most obscure pricey records he touched...and they do good business brokering things he used as tools of his trade.

So to understand the whole spectrum of folks at the Dilla fountain is to understand that it's more about folks playing "catch up" and other folks trying to get paid riding the brand.

It's gonna take a minute for the focus to REALLY get back to the SCIENCE that dude was working with.

I see a cat like Aarabmusik (or whatever his name is) and THAT TRULY fits the criteria of "innovative beatmaking" TO THIS GENERATION...64th note hi-hats & 808's (*SNORE*). God keep Aarabmusik healthy because I'd have to rip my ears off my head if he died and his nuthugger zombie army ran his "myth" up the Peanut Butter Wolf flagpole.

At least Dilla left schitt tons of music for the folks that love him because of his approach to music.

s.blak
Turn It Up...A Little Louder � James Yancey

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

I see lol

-------------------------
�Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.�-- Warren Coolidge

as it does things changing for the worse all the way around
nobody wants to practice and try to get better when they can click a box on a computer program and do a hi hat part
also I won't say production hasn't advanced, that's being a little to harsh, but yeah Dilla and his peers were the last ones to really embrace that aesthetic of production
also I think Dilla's old stuff really isn't a proper comparison to what these guys get credit for; I see your point but that sort of comparison doesn't really speak to any point about his ability, per the state of things now

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

It's just the mere fact that I was thinking about...who musically in hip hop is making beats that had me as excited or close to it when Dilla was changing the game

Instagram: ascensionmusic

Kev Brown, El-P, Oddisee, etc. all make me really feel good about Hip Hop and where it's going, and they each have their own innovations
Kev in particular has been more prolific and varied than people really know, and his process is really interesting to me

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

right?

like an entire board dedicated to these posts?

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topics&forum=27

fuck you.

Instagram: ascensionmusic

that's a forum for creators mostly, even though all you get is 'check my shit' posts, but you don't necessarily have to be a creator to have this discussion

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

http://tinyurl.com/mp7rzs5

-------------------------
�Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.�-- Warren Coolidge

there was some new progress made in beat-making in the late 00's LA beat scene.

they did some new things that had never been done by dilla or madlib, despite being heavily influenced by both.

but nobody heard any of the material outside of a handful of people, so it will have no influence on anyone at large.

i mean madlib is still releasing beats from beat tapes he made in 2003, that karriem riggins album, by rights, sounds 10 years out of date to what he was doing back then.

if nobody hears your music, it technically never existed.

try having a conversation about madlib production techniques with the average rap fan, hell the average rap producer.
they're not going to know square 1 about anything he innovated.

and i don't think it's really a testament to how "creative" dilla or madlib were just that they were confident in their own abilities and willing to risk trying new things on whim to mix things up and do something new, even just to keep themselves interested.

the reason there is no new genres + very little musical progress in any genre these days is because the driving reason most people make music these days isn't to express anything - it's as a quick route to making money.
even the unsigned, indie guys...
i mean if you aren't trying to become the best and/or pushing any boundaries on what's possible in your supposedly beloved, chosen medium then why are you even doing this?
oh, that's right because you want to be famous and rich.

they just follow the trends/dollars.

and if nobody sets new trends, then new trends seldom happen.

look at slowly things evolved in the sound scape of 00's rap compared to the 90's or 80's.

hence, my "talented black acts that were suppressed from their rightful exposure in the 00's thread" a few years ago.

what changed in the 00's? oh i dunno, the massive influx of white attention and purchasing power from 1996-2001 that made so many people rich perhaps?
which lead to corporations dictating the trends to control the "risk" and snuffing out organic "movements" that had heaps of potential to shake up the genre but at the risk of making everything else out sound "passe".

i mean why does music sound the same in 2013 as it did in 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009 or whenever year lex luger blew up?
why do the people that blow up set the trends and any form of counter-culture is not even acknowledged as existing today?
because capitalism has usurped music as an art form and the vast vast majority of people only make music that they think is going to make money and attract fame.
(and amusingly enough, don't make any real money making it that way...)

---
i just want to opine in peace.

www.twitter.com/seandammit

I like a few things...but overall not for me

That doesn't negate him as the answer to the question you posed in the original post.

www.twitter.com/seandammit

.

I mean, the LA scene, 40, Mike Will, Kanye, Hudson Mohawke, and a fuckin army of soundcloud hip-hop/r&b cats would disagree.

Look, I like a lot of Dilla's shit. Dude was great. But this whole hip-hop fatalism/fetishizing dead cats? Goofy as hell. And it keeps people from seeing the art in the living.

A lot of people have been making new strides in the game....artists picking those beats is a different story.

The Instro/Electro game has been bonkers the last 3 years....the rappers just aren't all the way hip yet.

phemom's the name, all-star writer/
searching 4 journalistic fame, mindframe igniter....www.twitter.com/hayabusaage

.

I mean, unless you refuse to listen to anything but Mello Music Group and Rhymesayers.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

he "just" was really good at what he did and added his unique twist to it.

it takes time to make art that "evolves" the genre. you could argue that kanye tries to be avant-garde. i don't like his current music and i think that it's more image than substance as far as pushing the boundaries but you can't say he's not trying.

''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO

not what he's posted in here, but his general premise that the beatmakers that were trying to continue the line stopped associating with mc's. it's what plagued dilla while he was alive too, not enough major placements. There are a lot of cats doing more these days, but without an associated rapper, most hip-hop fans will deny their existence.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

it's not that people "deny", it's just that there is no reason why they should know who these beatmakers/programmers are.

most people listen to music when it is validated by where they here it or who they see cosigning it.

most people don't go out of their way to find obscure, up-and-coming acts, gauging their talents using their own critical thinking and understanding of music and talent.

hence, most people don't just listen to "beats".

there's a reason scratch magazine went out of business.

but i think what i posted in here is very much a continuation of the of thinking used when i levied the criticism of the LA beat scene shunning rappers and making "rap songs" as being their downfall some 4-5 years ago.

i mean samiyam released an album last week, i posted about it, it didn't even get 1 response.

how many people do you think even downloaded it, illegally?

i'd venture less than 1000.

---
i just want to opine in peace.

phemom's the name, all-star writer/
searching 4 journalistic fame, mindframe igniter....www.twitter.com/hayabusaage

What about folks like TNGHT or Flume? Baauer? Cashmere Cat? Pretty Lights, Fly Lo etc...

They are not only pushing the genre but have careers much more lucrative than Dilla ever did.

The LA Beat scene and the acceptance of the "DJ" as an artists have propelled the beat-maker to rock star status. And these dudes are pushing what Pop is making now.

There is no Katy Perry ft Juicy J without the "EDM" trap movement.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>What about folks like TNGHT or Flume? Baauer? Cashmere Cat?
>Pretty Lights, Fly Lo etc...
>
>They are not only pushing the genre but have careers much more
>lucrative than Dilla ever did.
>
>The LA Beat scene and the acceptance of the "DJ" as an artists
>have propelled the beat-maker to rock star status. And these
>dudes are pushing what Pop is making now.
>
>There is no Katy Perry ft Juicy J without the "EDM" trap
>movement.

Im like, Dilla pushed a PARTICULAR sound to the so far it revertebrated outside of hip-hop. However, to say that someone like Flylo, a dilla devotee mind you, ain't making new moves production wise...lol.

Dudes want the same records chopped up over and over again

Well "Hip hop" as a label... wont get you shows...

lol

Promoters still thinking Wu Tang is gonna show up and burn their venue down.

but an "EDM" or electronic producer or DJ.. that's safer, cooler and makes a ton of money..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Well "Hip hop" as a label... wont get you shows...
>
>lol
>
>Promoters still thinking Wu Tang is gonna show up and burn
>their venue down.
>
>but an "EDM" or electronic producer or DJ.. that's safer,
>cooler and makes a ton of money..

My fav is the current hipster blogosphere fascination with DJ Rashad(who deserves it btw). I saw him play the 'you're on your way!' EDM club Output in NYC and during his set I just sat there wondering how oddly placed he was, since outside of a few footwork backdrops (all on top of modern hip-hop classics) it was a funkmaster flex set.

Yea I mean.. I love the fact that the old heads can get some bread. They've done so much to cultivate these subgenres that have built the new EDM wave it's great they can eat too...

Still wild watching 2 Chainz at like HARD festival but fuck it.. if it works and the fans love it..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

It will be too soon

im all for artistic ghettotech/ghettohouse, but calling the genre footwork seems like some shit someone who had never actually experienced it would do.

Flosstradamus too I believe

LOL!!

Sorry. I'm not saying it's not, I'm just saying hip-hop heads here represented by the starter of this post, don't care what these kids call themselves, it's not a continuation of hip-hop for them even if it retains some of the core elements.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

.

And probably just salty that innovation in hip hop production is coming from French techno producers instead of someone they can "relate" to

>What about folks like TNGHT or Flume? Baauer? Cashmere Cat?
>Pretty Lights, Fly Lo etc...

Other than FlyLo hip-hop heads don't know who they are.

Also the og post was keen on sampling which the majority of your list isn't known for.

>They are not only pushing the genre but have careers much more
>lucrative than Dilla ever did.

'genre' the operative word here. They are actually from a hip-hop perspective pushing out of the genre.

>The LA Beat scene and the acceptance of the "DJ" as an artists
>have propelled the beat-maker to rock star status. And these
>dudes are pushing what Pop is making now.

All irrelevant to hip-hop heads.

>There is no Katy Perry ft Juicy J without the "EDM" trap
>movement.

Neither EDM or Trap continues the Dilla legacy. Trap is a breakfast cereal commercial away from 'not being hip-hop' at this point. And again it's all good but not really pushing beatmaking from where Dilla left off.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>>What about folks like TNGHT or Flume? Baauer? Cashmere Cat?
>>Pretty Lights, Fly Lo etc...
>
>Other than FlyLo hip-hop heads don't know who they are.
>

Don't know who Baauer is? The kid with a number 1? They don't know who Pretty Lights is? The kid who can sell out Ampitheatre's? These guys fans ARE hip hop heads. They can go to a Dilla Tribute and a Pretty lights show

>Also the og post was keen on sampling which the majority of
>your list isn't known for.
>

Flume is and he has number 1's.. I can add Aarabmuzik to the list as well.

>>They are not only pushing the genre but have careers much
>more
>>lucrative than Dilla ever did.
>
>'genre' the operative word here. They are actually from a
>hip-hop perspective pushing out of the genre.
>
>>The LA Beat scene and the acceptance of the "DJ" as an
>artists
>>have propelled the beat-maker to rock star status. And
>these
>>dudes are pushing what Pop is making now.
>

All irrelevant to hip-hop heads.

Hip hop heads CREATED the La beat scene.. Low End Theory comes out of Dilla, madlib and experimental beat fans

>
>>There is no Katy Perry ft Juicy J without the "EDM" trap
>>movement.
>
>Neither EDM or Trap continues the Dilla legacy. Trap is a
>breakfast cereal commercial away from 'not being hip-hop' at
>this point. And again it's all good but not really pushing
>beatmaking from where Dilla left off.

People need to eat man. Samples dont do that. At a time when you can be sued for a drum break the innovation happened elsewhere

>
>
>█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
>Big PEMFin H & z's
>"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1
>thing, a musician." � Miles
>
>"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Don't know who Baauer is? The kid with a number 1?

"The Harlem Shake dude?" He bits about as much hip-hop cred as the meme did.

>They don't
>know who Pretty Lights is?

No they don't. Sorry.

>These guys fans ARE hip hop heads. They can
>go to a Dilla Tribute and a Pretty lights show

Uhhhh... I've been following Pretty Lights since the first ep. He's not coming close to Dilla. He made his niche and god bless him for that, but c'mon son. You take dilla heads to a PL show they're liable to punch somebody.

>>Also the og post was keen on sampling which the majority of
>>your list isn't known for.
>>
>
>Flume is and he has number 1's.. I can add Aarabmuzik to the
>list as well.

I don't know who Flume is but I'm old. Aarabmuzik... still making beats for Dipset?

>Hip hop heads CREATED the La beat scene.. Low End Theory comes
>out of Dilla, madlib and experimental beat fans

And? There's an inteview with one of the leading LET heads saying how much they hated the MC's pre LET when they were stuck at goodlife. Now they got rid of them... That's my point.

>People need to eat man. Samples dont do that.

Irrelevant to the original topic.

>At a time when
>you can be sued for a drum break the innovation happened
>elsewhere

But focusing on this. None of these motherfuckers are innovating. None of them. Making hot trendy shit sure. Innovating... NOPE. Not for hip-hop, not for EDM, not for the breadth of electronic music. They just getting paid. Bless em for it whatever on that.

And I'm a fan.


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>But focusing on this. None of these motherfuckers are
>innovating. None of them. Making hot trendy shit sure.
>Innovating... NOPE. Not for hip-hop, not for EDM, not for the
>breadth of electronic music. They just getting paid. Bless
>em for it whatever on that.

yall gotta remember i'm speaking as a fan of this shit. there's a double platinum post of electronic music from this year that i've got a third if not half the posts in. i'm listening to it. and if we're talking electronic in general fuck yeah there's innovation. if we're talking electronic with hip-hop leanings it stalled out after everyone realized they could get more licensing money if they didn't try to innovate. and the edm and trap mentioned by double o are offshoots of that. this ain't even an old man rant this is just critical analysis.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

you seem mad, bitter, and hater-ish

to say FlyLo, Araab, Lunice or HudMo aren't being innovative is very short-sighted.

sure a lot of shit is very monotonous on the sample-based and "trap ends of the spectrum, some of which crosses over, but heads def finding new sounds/methods to evoke those old moods

hit me with an innovative hip-hop production technique.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

If none of them innovated then neither did dilla

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

and doing something new with it, not creating something new on his own
and often that can be even more difficult to do
but all of that stuff sounds derivative and actually more like Madlib than Dilla

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CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

Yea but to say that no one is doing that now...

Mr Carmack? Cashmere Cat?

There are so many kids on soundcloud doing incredible shit

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

there's innovative stuff all over the place with no audience, no different than when Dilla was at his peak

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
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Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

I'm not talking about how popular he is or whatever but his actual work. I've had a couple of people try and sell me on how great this kid is and I just don't hear it. And it's certainly not appealing to heads. Hell Flying Lotus barely is.

I like his take on 90s R&Bish type shit... in 2013..

I wouldnt go to a show though. I just don't think his music would be dope live..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

Because honestly I don't hear anything special at all. I can think of a bunch of dudes out Detroit, LA and Chicago doing way more interesting things and certainly more Hip Hop styled production.

>I like his take on 90s R&Bish type shit... in 2013..
>
>I wouldnt go to a show though. I just don't think his music
>would be dope live..
>
I think what you were saying is these guys are borrowing from Hip Hop and making waves in other lanes but despite what they may call themselves that shit is not appealing to Hip Hop heads anymore than Led Zeppelin appealed to my grandpa who was a Delta Blues fan.

you don't think the "Head" has evolved?

Like the cat who was listening to Co. Flow is probably the same cat at Low End Theory or Boiler Room now..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

But I don't think they are really checking for someone like Cashmere Cat.

>you don't think the "Head" has evolved?
>
>Like the cat who was listening to Co. Flow is probably the
>same cat at Low End Theory or Boiler Room now..

There are always exceptions but in general heads are more checking for people with much more aggressive styles of production. It's a lot more likely to be Black Milk or Hit Boy than some dude from Norway unless he is dropping certified bangers which I don't think Cashmere Cat is. Like I mentioned earlier even Flying Lotus is still a little out there to a large amount of straight up Heads and I definitely feel like they are later to the party on him than other folks.

Yea.. I mean MOST heads are still on head nod shit... right now that head nod is 140bpm...

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Yea.. I mean MOST heads are still on head nod shit... right
>now that head nod is 140bpm...

I'm not saying that's a bad thing either.

FlyLo is barely registering with "heads" or some niche artist

all the hip hop blogs, mostly written by older heads constantly post his music.

critics across mags/online have praised every single release

in LA, you best get tickets early when he performs cause his shows constantly sell out

dude is one of the figure heads of one of the few actual physical scenes to emerge in the last decade

and we aint even talkin about the music

sheesh

Now if you go you are starting to see more heads at the show but he's been on the radar of what I'll call non-heads for a much longer period of time.

>FlyLo is barely registering with "heads" or some niche
>artist
>
>all the hip hop blogs, mostly written by older heads
>constantly post his music.
>
>critics across mags/online have praised every single release
>
>in LA, you best get tickets early when he performs cause his
>shows constantly sell out
>
>dude is one of the figure heads of one of the few actual
>physical scenes to emerge in the last decade
>
>and we aint even talkin about the music
>
>sheesh

Most of those people at those shows tend to be fans of a cool, hip shit and I wouldn't describe them as heads. I'm not saying their are none in the house like I mentioned earlier he has grown in that community but the vast majority of those people at those shows are also going to be at a bunch of other trendy shit in LA as well regardless of genre.

Where music exists in some unspecified ether until it can be defined by way of its audience

>Where music exists in some unspecified ether until it can be
>defined by way of its audience

I don't think Fly lo and others are in some unspecified ether that is undefined. I just don't believe or see that a ton of what we were referring to as Hip Hop heads are into him. As someone else noted for the most part they are still checking for more head snapping type of production and that's not generally what Fly Lo has to offer.

the tools at their disposal and then evaluate how they are innovating the use of those tools. show me what you think is innovative and there's likely someone who did it twenty years ago with far more difficult tools.

next thing you explicitly stated trap and edm, the former is so locked into a formula there's literally no room to innovate, and at its very birth (in this incarntion) was apporpriative, while the latter is so braodstroke and yet at the same time so limiting that again there's no room for innovation. this is literally the third wave of 'edm' (though its just now received the horrid name) in the last twenty years, and there's nothing that has changed about it except the tools have made it a lot easier to do what folk did before and during the first waves.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

>the tools at their disposal and then evaluate how they are
>innovating the use of those tools. show me what you think is
>innovative and there's likely someone who did it twenty years
>ago with far more difficult tools.
>

Not everything. No one 20 years ago could technically do the vocal chop processing stuff that's happening now. Melodyne and Ableton helped usher in a ton of innovation.


>next thing you explicitly stated trap and edm, the former is
>so locked into a formula there's literally no room to
>innovate, and at its very birth (in this incarntion) was
>apporpriative, while the latter is so braodstroke and yet at
>the same time so limiting that again there's no room for
>innovation. this is literally the third wave of 'edm' (though
>its just now received the horrid name) in the last twenty
>years, and there's nothing that has changed about it except
>the tools have made it a lot easier to do what folk did before
>and during the first waves.

Both names suck. There are tons of electronic musicians who hate the labels.. Once you get rid of them it isn't as formulaic as you'd think. They aren't doing what happened before at all. Fat Boy Slim and Prodigy didn't sound like each other let alone Avicii. And Avicii sounds nothing like Bass Nectar or Pretty lights etc...

We woudnt be talking about any sub genre of electronic music if there was no room for innovation... no trap, no dubstep.. no ratchet.. no juke. There is constant innovation in the underground. That's the point

>
>█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
>Big PEMFin H & z's
>"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1
>thing, a musician." � Miles
>
>"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Not everything. No one 20 years ago could technically do the
>vocal chop processing stuff that's happening now. Melodyne
>and Ableton helped usher in a ton of innovation.

You could do it with a couple of hours and a S950 if you knew what you were trying to do. The technology made it easier, that's the innovation not the uses.

>Both names suck. There are tons of electronic musicians who
>hate the labels.. Once you get rid of them it isn't as
>formulaic as you'd think.

This is circular. I'm specifically calling out the claim that edm and trap are innovating. Not the broader electronic. To say get rid of the label and embrace it all, you're including things which are not trap or edm in the mix which is irrelevant because above i already said electronic is innovating just not in those subs for the reasons previously expressed.

>They aren't doing what happened
>before at all. Fat Boy Slim and Prodigy didn't sound like
>each other let alone Avicii. And Avicii sounds nothing like
>Bass Nectar or Pretty lights etc...

I'm talking about innovation at the level of techniques. What it takes to make what they are making. These foundations were laid. They are named in the presets, built in the emulations, and cherished in the sample packs because it all came before.

>We woudnt be talking about any sub genre of electronic music
>if there was no room for innovation... no trap, no dubstep..
>no ratchet.. no juke. There is constant innovation in the
>underground. That's the point

This is an empty statement. Even more you gotta pick a side. Two posts up you're championing cats in the underground. Now you're saying the innovation is happening underground. That was actually my point. The styles that you're talking about aren't underground they've morphed into popular formulas that keep them from innovating.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

But in EDM the "underground" is eating...

You are right though.. I should say Niche or lesser known.. because that line is blurred

but there is a very specific tier of cats like Avicii, Afrojack, Diplo, Ingrosso, Alesso, Tiesto etc....

and then Flosstradamus, Baauer, Fly lo, Bassnectar, Flume etc..

I only used underground because the latter (cept baauer) doesnt have Billboard Top 40 radio play.


and unless you can show me an example of someone chopping a vocal and repurposing it like Skrillex in an Akai sampler then nah you are wrong..

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>and unless you can show me an example of someone chopping a
>vocal and repurposing it...

subject line sorry i don't have a link.


>like Skrillex in an Akai sampler then
>nah you are wrong..

operative word is 'like' and what exactly you mean by 'like'. i'm talking technique, you describe the technique for the Skrillex vocal chop (ie take the first sylable, at the sixteenth repeat then go into the full phrase before reversing it) other than time stretching you can do most of it with tape, and time stretching as an innovation is more about the technology than the application.

see what i'm saying. now does it sound like how skrillex does it, not necessarily, but the technique is still ancient. what is it that skrillex does with that technique that is innovative for the technique and not a result of the afforded technology?


█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Sorry... no tape splicing is doing this..

http://youtu.be/fq-geJ9UwG4

round 33 seconds on for a long as time..

Anyway,,, this is a new technique.. you could chop a note and map it to the keyboard with any keyboard based sampler.. i.e. asr 10, eps 16

Jimmy jam talks about mapping janet jackson background vocals and playing them instead of her stacking them...

But none of them are THIS level of intricacy.. You need the software to push the boundaries this way... and skrillex pushed it... He took notes from Aphex and Noisia.. but pushed his own shit

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Sorry... no tape splicing is doing this..

2) The only difference from tape where you physically touching the tape to warp it while its playing as its recording as a sample onto another tape then splice those recordings together into phrases, is time stretching.


>Anyway,,, this is a new technique.. you could chop a note and
>map it to the keyboard with any keyboard based sampler.. i.e.
>asr 10, eps 16

So then again how is it new? It's a new application of an old technique with new technology.

>But none of them are THIS level of intricacy..

3) Attention to detail sure why not.

>You need the
>software to push the boundaries this way... and skrillex
>pushed it... He took notes from Aphex and Noisia.. but pushed
>his own shit

4) You don't need the software to do anything but time stretch.

5) In a discussion about the innovations of hip-hop production this is a stretch. What one does with Melodyne is a far cry from what one does with an MPC in terms of producing beats, and this is a clear example of a disconnect, because while I'm sure amongst those that enjoy this there are some hip-hop heads, when you go to the core hip-hop audience and play this you'll get nothing but blank stares.

>Sorry... no tape splicing is doing this..
>
>http://youtu.be/fq-geJ9UwG4
>
>round 33 seconds on for a long as time..
>
>Anyway,,, this is a new technique.. you could chop a note and
>map it to the keyboard with any keyboard based sampler.. i.e.
>asr 10, eps 16
>
>Jimmy jam talks about mapping janet jackson background vocals
>and playing them instead of her stacking them...
>
>But none of them are THIS level of intricacy.. You need the
>software to push the boundaries this way... and skrillex
>pushed it... He took notes from Aphex and Noisia.. but pushed
>his own shit

u say there's something intricate going on there, but i can't tell what i'm hearing. and most importantly, the end result is nothing i'd ever want to listen to.

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
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@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

lol.. well no reason to explain then...

I mean innovating techniques don't matter if ppl don't like the end result right?

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>lol.. well no reason to explain then...

i'd appreciate being educated. u don't have to be too detailed. lol. i don't know if i'm missing an obvious sample source or what.

>I mean innovating techniques don't matter if ppl don't like
>the end result right?

no, not true. maybe some one could use those powers for good!

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

Ok... well

long and short..

Skrillex is singing maybe 4-8 bars.

Chops those vocals up (probably on consonants) into little pieces then dumping them in melodyne where he is rewriting the melody with the vocals...

Dump em back in ableton where he can chop again and "play" them how he wants in the beat.

Some effects processes happening (reverb, reversing parts, delays, etc..)

if you want a distant relative to it. it'd be vocoding. That requires a synth source though. he can just do this without one and treat his voice as a midi instrument.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

>Skrillex is singing maybe 4-8 bars.

or sampling

>Chops those vocals up (probably on consonants) into little
>pieces

"Recycle'd" been around since the 90's

>then dumping them in melodyne where he is rewriting the
>melody with the vocals...

Primary functionality here being the interface which makes rearranging easy, and time stretching which makes the rearranging auto match the tune.

>Dump em back in ableton where he can chop again and "play"
>them how he wants in the beat.

Can also flow right out of Melodyne.


>if you want a distant relative to it. it'd be vocoding. That
>requires a synth source though. he can just do this without
>one and treat his voice as a midi instrument.

Eh... it's not really close to vocoding at all. But it does highlight another recent technological development - audio to midi, though that's not necessarily what's being employed here (even if it is in the backbone of Melodyne, it's not necessarily an active technique).

From this though you can still see that it's really just the ease which of course has led to doing more things, but I'm still on the fence with the innovativeness of it. I mean considering this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pugC5qZ_SXU was done strictly with hardware in the 90's (artists voice, chopped rearranged, pitch effects etc) technique wise what has been added? Sure you could say things like the post processing effects, but it's not that those couldn't ahve been done then as well.

Me thinks you need a soundcloud account..

There are so many ill producers worldwide these days...

Dilla is like 4 generations removed. What these kids are doing now with vocal samples .. sample chops etc.. is really dope.

Is it all good? no

But they synthesized dilla's ideas and have far surpassed them.

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

they can chop it but it lacks the character to make it stand out as unique.

of coure this isn't all of them, but no one i've heard has stood out as next level.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

I saw a dude making dubstep and it wub wubbed for him. He had no clue what a LFO was.