Joe Corn Mo Member since Aug 29th 2010 15139 posts
Tue Jul-23-13 01:50 PM
""i listen to hip hop, not rap.""
what does this phrase mean to you? how do you feel about people using this phrase?
i typically hear this phrase from white people, and i never quite know what they mean. how do people that use that phrase distinguish rap from hip hop? and why don't they listen to rap?
i have asked his question of people that use the phrase, but the answers didn't quite make sense to me.
6. "its basically this" In response to Reply # 3 Tue Jul-23-13 02:13 PM by Kosa12
people want to create a separation b/t the shit they like and don't like
the people who use this phrase probably just got into "underground"/not top 40 hip hop/in some cases 80s/90s hip hop and want to describe the shit they like in a stupid ass attempt to NOT classify it in the same genre with the shit on the radio
you wouldn't believe how many dumb ass conversations I've had
12. "the Green Day is not punk thing is corny too..." In response to Reply # 3
...but also makes sense because the term "Punk" is not just a form of music for a lot of people but also an "attitude", lifestyle and something that personifies a certain DIY-aesthetic.
Basically, the same type of arguments people use to make a distinction between Hip-Hop (*ideally* viewed as a culture) and rap-music.
Personally, I'm way too pragmatic to make *those* types of non-musical distinctions:anyone can hear that Green Day's music is almost solely (well, before they went stadium) rooted in previous music characterized as "punk":Ramones, (early) Clash, Buzzcocks, Stiff Little Fingers etc. It may be a weak and IMO lame version of said music but it's still that type of music-just like Puffy was clearly making Hip-Hop music while simultaneously being bland, poppy and weak...
4. "It's retarded, but been perpetuated by trusted voices" In response to Reply # 0
How many times has KRS said "rap is something you do, hip hop is something you ARE!" in a university lecture hall to 200 white kids? I'd bet hundreds.
___________________________ OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself: "I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.
8. "Ahhh, ok, it's been a while since I heard Kris' spiel, I'm a little rust..." In response to Reply # 7
___________________________ OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself: "I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.
5. "I instantly disregard anyone who says that kind of dumb shit" In response to Reply # 0 Tue Jul-23-13 02:15 PM by Bombastic
back in the late-80's, long before 90% of their corny asses were listening to 'hip-hop', we were calling this shit rap music.
Meanwhile you had places like MTV calling TLC hip-hop a decade or so ago.
Shut the fuck up, if they're rapping on it you can call the shit rap music & that includes the precious/narrow-window of what you personally have deemed 'hip-hop' instead.
That pretty much sums up exactly how I feel when I hear that goofy shit. In a lot of my experience it comes from dudes who just got into the music and now they want to tell everyone what is Hip Hop and what is Rap not even acknowledging that Rap is a part of Hip Hop and like you mentioned in another post KRS's whole point of that wasn't to say that he wasn't Rap but to say that Rap is a part of a bigger culture that includes DJing, Graffitti, etc.
10. "I went through a phase where I said that (or something similar)..." In response to Reply # 0
....when I was a young teen. I stopped that.
However, one thing I will note about the hip-hop vs rap thing is I do have certain expectations of someone if meeting or discussing music for the first time and they say "I listen to hip-hop".
I hear that and there are artists I expect them to like or at least be familiar with and I do expect them to have more extensive knowledge of the genre (past and present) compared to someone who says "yeah, I like rap".
Not saying if they DON'T meet those expectations they suck, I don't respect them, or that one type of fan is better/smarter. And I know there's a lot of cross-over and we here use the terms interchangeably. But when I hear someone say 'rap' or 'hip-hop', it does set up those expectations in my mind.
__ I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!
Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno
Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)
11. "That phrase made perfect sense in sweden in the late 80's-early 90's..." In response to Reply # 0
There was a lot of popular music at the time that incorporated rapping while clearly not being Hip-Hop (C+C music Factory, Technotronic, Leila K, Snap!, 2 Unlimited and more euro-dance one could possibly imagine).
This was music that for the "outsiders" was the same thing as Hip-Hop (=someone talking rhythmically over danceable-and note that Hip-Hop itself was frequently danceable in those years-music); believe you me, the regular old rock guy could not tell/did not care about the difference between a De La soul song and Rebel MC's "Street tuff".
Basically, I've uttered variations of that phrase (I don't think I ever worded it like that though since I recognized MOST Hip-Hop as a form of "rap-music" as well; still, the "heads" rarely used the phrase "rap-music" to describe Hip-Hop, it was the people who dug Technotronic-and Hammer and anilla Ice for that matter (often the same crowd)-that said they liked "rap-music") and have no shame in it.
The distinction as made during the underground era in the late 90's (="real" stuff vs. commercial) was kind of corny though but I can understand where it's coming from even if I'm not sure americans actually made the distinction in the late 80's-early 90's but that was probably because the more purely dance-rooted stuff was never getting viewed as anything else but dance, at least not by people "in the know"...
You hit a nail (maybe not the nail) on the head. Falco rapped like a mo-fo but I imagine he's rarely accused of being hip-hop. There is a distinction reasonable people can make. But you are right, that reasonable distinction is not one of "realness." That opens the way for the absurd argument that something is not "hip-hop," it is "rap" (a diminutive form) simply because one does not like it. It's a more specific version of the "what is art" and how do you define it question and a proper answer to that is never "it's art when I like it, it's not when I don't."
box ___ Just looking out of the window Watching the asphalt grow Thinking how it all looks hand-me-down
19. "Well, let's put it like this:" In response to Reply # 14
The most outstanding/alien"disgusting" feature of a lot of music coming out in the 80's to "outsiders" was that people weren't really singing but rather talking; wether said "talking" was done over house-beats or sampled JB-loops was really not as outstanding to said crowd (of course, the sampling thing was controversial but it was more a purely intellectual argument; I doubt many people who criticized sampling even recognized the source-material-it was the *idea* that was off-putting as opposed to rapping where the actual *sound* of people not singing pissed people off).
Also add that Hip-Hop was closely aligned with the then new electronic "dance"/club scene (see some infamous De La Soul B-side remixes and certain EPMD- and Jungle Brothers tracks for evidence) in that era.
Add the commercial styles of the likes of Hammer, vanilla Ice etc. to the climate.
THEN you have people like Ice Cube saying that dancing is wack, every "real" rapper critizing "sell-outs" (generally acts with poppy, club-friendly beats) and so on and "real" Hip-Hop was fastly being defined as something different and I think for a lot of people growing up in that era, there were certain aesthetics that were closely associated with Hip-Hop (tm).
When a guy like Puffy-who more than any other was the whipping boy for the rap vs. Hip-Hop argument in that era-came out and became big and even "credible" rappers started to put out very ''clubby'' material... I think (fuck, KNOW) that it was quite a culture-shock for people who had grown up during the "keep it real"-era, learnt to hate Hammer and "club-beats" and had Hip-Hop (tm) defined by a more "hardcore" set of aesthetics...
I'm not saying the "rap vs. Hip-Hop" arguments weren't corny, just that they came from an understandable position; one that wasn't necessarily rooted in a distaste for commercialism/MTv-friendliness/crossover vibe in itself but more in the particualr manners said commercialism/"anti-realness" manifested itself.
is what I call them. Anyone who makes this type of distinction and tries to act as if they are "above" Rap is probably an outsider to the culture anyway so I just dismiss most of their opinions because it's so fucking pretentious.
21. "question: is graffitti part of "rap"?" In response to Reply # 0
what about b-boying? is that "rap" or "rap culture"
how about dj'ing?
what if i only listen to instrumentals/beats in a "rap" style but rarely vocal "rap" music, is is still wrong to call it "hip-hop" instead of rap?
are we at the point where hip-hop culture boils down to "rap"?
to continue this line of thinking, if u had to rank the *accepted* 4 elements of hip-hop (or "rap"?) in order of importance, how would you rank them? is "rap" something that encompasses them all or is it just a word to describe music w/ rappers on it?
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
24. "rapping is what an MC/rapper/rhymesayer/etc does" In response to Reply # 21
simply because corporations weren't able to find ways to monetize graffiti or breakdancing in the same way they did rapping does not make for any real distinction between rap music different then hip-hop as an audible/marketable or even cultural art form.
In fact, if anything something classified as 'rap music' in today's day & age boils things down to the essence (which is probably part of the reason Killer Mike titled his first El-P collab as such) more than the many off-shoot acts (from TLC in the late 90's to Gnarls Barkley to The Gorillaz to BEP) that have since been crammed under the hip-hop umbrella in various publications/award-categories/etc.
But really, either work if you're speaking to someone who actually understands/speaks the same language.
The 'I don't listen to rap I listen to hip-hop' missive was misguided from its inception, almost always parroted by an outsider or recent addition to the tribe & only sounds sillier with each passing season.
26. "this is why i think there is a distinction between "rap" & "hip-hop"" In response to Reply # 24
rap is the monetized, marketed product, its the name corps slapped on it when they figured out what part they could most easily pimp (mc'ing or rapping) & enRAPture ppl with (lol)
maybe im wrong, but i thought hip-hop was the term that the creators of the culture used (i could be very wrong i dunno) after all the term "rap" existed well before Herc extended a break or Taki 183 threw up a tag
so im kinda confused by this seeming backlash at making a distinction between the two & why folks are so seemingly hostile to the term or distinction bc some dumb white kids who like TLC or whatever hijacked it
has anyone ever seen the T Shirt that says "Rap - lies = hip-hop"?
from what ive seen on these boards today it seems lots of folks are under the impression that lies are in fact a basic & fundamental part of the culture
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
27. "its not that complicated man" In response to Reply # 26
rap is a part of hip hop hip hop has 4 main components, rapping (MCing) is one of them hip hop music is not always rap, i.e DJ Shadow does not make rap music, but rap music is pretty much always hip hop music 99% of the time the rap vs hip hop argument is used it is used by (look at my first post in this topic)
29. "maybe some prefer the use of the term "hip-hop" because ..." In response to Reply # 27
they don't like one element of the culture being used to define it?
this is why i asked about a beattape...if i rock a beattape & someone says "cool rap" and i say "well its not rap, its hip-hop, there's no rapper" am i a cultural outsider theif white hipster devil trying to destroy & usurp the power of the Black man?
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
but we both know damn well that most of the time where people try to make a distinction between "rap" and "hip hop" that is not the case
and no, you wouldn't be all of that shit for the beat tape example because that actually makes sense. no one is rapping on your beat tape.
I don't feel like I'm defining the entire culture by saying "rap" or "rap music" I'm just referring to one area (the area that just happens to be the most popular and most vocal for blatantly obvious reasons) of the culture. When one says "hip hop music" or "hip hop" 9/10 people are going to immediately think of "rap"......
41. "why is it dumb?" In response to Reply # 40 Tue Jul-23-13 06:18 PM by philpot
because it's not "cool" or what?
simple reasoning is spelled out in post 34
maybe we have it wrong...maybe commercialized rap really DOES suck next to the other stuff
maybe something in us does want "them" to recognize our heroes, so when they pick the ones "they" like the most, we go ahead & accept it out of some repressed need for validation by the larger culture & turn inwards on the "purists" bc we need someone to be better than
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
59. "I think people that try to act like" In response to Reply # 55 Tue Jul-23-13 06:40 PM by Kosa12
stuff like jurrasic 5 or mos def and stuff like ludacris or jay z aren't part of the same genre are actually horrible hip hop fans. Say that you don't like them, fine, but to say that they aren't "hip hop" is elitist as FUCK
62. "hmmm...sounds like a perhaps exaggerated phenomenon..." In response to Reply # 59 Tue Jul-23-13 06:48 PM by philpot
for the purposes of agenda
i'd certainly never make that claim
isnt it also ironic ur calling other ppl "horrible hip hop fans" while indicating they are judgmental for what is prolly, at worst, a misguided attempt to express their preference?
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
65. "wait...what....maybe I'm reading your post wrong....." In response to Reply # 62
but you said
"so it makes sense that more commercial stuff would be labelled "rap" & less commercial stuff (or DJ/beat based stuff like Shadow) would be labelled hip-hop"
and maybe "horrible" was a bit too far but, as someone else in this topic has said, it does come off as ass hole-ish
68. "that statement i made has to be qualified..." In response to Reply # 65
>but you said > >"so it makes sense that more commercial stuff would be >labelled "rap" & less commercial stuff (or DJ/beat based stuff >like Shadow) would be labelled hip-hop" >
the way i did when i made it
this is based on the music industry primarily (initially anyway) using the term Rap for music that was usually referred to by its practitioners (correct me if im wrong) as hip-hop
that's why it makes sense in context of the history
that said when most of *us* became aware of it it was Rap, like Yo! MTV Raps or Rapper's Delight or blondie's Rapture
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
61. "can u give examples of a rapper clownin someone by callin them a rapper?" In response to Reply # 53
and not using loaded lines like 'fake-ass rapper how you think you got juice?'(c)KRS but a line that indicates they're actually using the term 'rapper' as a form of insult.
The only times I can think of it is when used by a rapper who is trying to pretend he's a pimp, drug dealer or crime boss instead like 'I am not you, rapper' on Clipse first album type of shit (which of course, is silly for an entirely different set of reasons).
76. "RE: rappaz r n dainja" In response to Reply # 63
That song wasn't saying the rapper as a diss..it was saying rappers beware because a truly great rapper is coming for that ass. "Dental floss is lost when a true rapper jumps off".
39. "RE: this is why i think there is a distinction between "rap" &..." In response to Reply # 26 Tue Jul-23-13 06:15 PM by Bombastic
>rap is the monetized, marketed product, its the name corps >slapped on it when they figured out what part they could most >easily pimp (mc'ing or rapping) & enRAPture ppl with (lol) > >maybe im wrong, but i thought hip-hop was the term that the >creators of the culture used (i could be very wrong i dunno) >after all the term "rap" existed well before Herc extended a >break or Taki 183 threw up a tag > > >so im kinda confused by this seeming backlash at making a >distinction between the two & why folks are so seemingly >hostile to the term or distinction bc some dumb white kids who >like TLC or whatever hijacked it > >has anyone ever seen the T Shirt that says "Rap - lies = >hip-hop"? > One of many stupid t-shirts in the world.
Don't play yourself in public parroting this nonsense.
>from what ive seen on these boards today it seems lots of >folks are under the impression that lies are in fact a basic & >fundamental part of the culture
35. "This is not really true:" In response to Reply # 24 Tue Jul-23-13 05:23 PM by Jakob Hellberg
>The 'I don't listen to rap I listen to hip-hop' missive was >misguided from its inception, almost always parroted by an >outsider or recent addition to the tribe & only sounds sillier >with each passing season.
It may be that way now-actually, I'm sure it is-but back in the mid-late 90's, I remember a lot of old-timers on message-boards like rec.music.hip-hop and alt.rap kind of making a distinction including now respectable writers like Oliver Wang and I remember artists in the underground frequently having long rants on stage about the distinction between rap and Hip-Hop. There's also the RZA's rant on Wu-tang forever and a lot of other stuff in more mainstream circles as well (KRS-1 anone?)...
Amongst aging, disgruntled fans of a certain type meanwhile, it was an era when it was cool to say that not only was DJ Shadow as well as the wanky turntablists more Hip-Hop than Puffy or Jay-Z could ever hope of being; no, stuff like Portishead and Tricky and all those Trip-hop acts and stuff were too.
Granted, sometimes it was presented like they were "closer to the spirit of Hip-Hop..." or other shit but still, it's the same sentiment...
I get the impression that a lot of people nowadays are a bit ashamed of being on that shit but that doesn't change that a lot of people were on it and it wasn't just newbies either...
42. "yes, actually it is" In response to Reply # 35
>>The 'I don't listen to rap I listen to hip-hop' missive was >>misguided from its inception, almost always parroted by an >>outsider or recent addition to the tribe & only sounds >sillier >>with each passing season. > >It may be that way now-actually, I'm sure it is-but back in >the mid-late 90's, I remember a lot of old-timers on >message-boards like rec.music.hip-hop and alt.rap kind of >making a distinction including now respectable writers like >Oliver Wang and I remember artists in the underground >frequently having long rants on stage about the distinction >between rap and Hip-Hop. There's also the RZA's rant on >Wu-tang forever and a lot of other stuff in more mainstream >circles as well (KRS-1 anone?)... > I already discussed the 'rap is something you do, hip-hop is something you live' bit in this post.
That's not making a distinction between two different genres of music, it's saying one comes out of the other.
RZA's whole railing on that or on that Sway & Tek 'This Or That' from the same time was against pop/fusion stuff in his rants 'this is the station where hip-hop lives but don't play no hip-hop records' or 'make that R&B or make that shit funk' stuff.
Nowhere does he argue anything along the lines of 'Wu-Tang Clan is not a rap group' because that would be dumb.
There was never anytime where this nonsense of 'rap vs hip-hop' had any credence & I'm talking back before the internet existed.
While growing up listening to rap music in the mid-to-late-80's, there was no phony division over this shit.
People didn't get mad that the two biggest 'hip-hop' video outlets had 'Raps' & 'Rap' in their titles.
KRS had a song called 'Hip-Hop Rules' in 1989 whose ending code was 'rap music we want the rap music'.
They are part & parcel of the same thing unless you make the argument for hip-hop being the culture & rap being the musical form that sprung from it.
And that even seems to get less relevant by the year.
23. "Only people who primarily listen to rock / dance etc... say this." In response to Reply # 0
I used to hear that shit all the time when I was at university and when I tried to figure out what the fuck they meant it basically signified that they mostly listened to Radiohead but thought Jurassic 5 and DJ Shadow were suitably unthreatening to listen to on occasion.
25. "RE: Only people who primarily listen to rock / dance etc... say this." In response to Reply # 23
I wish that were true. I've met younger people who were raised on hip hop, like literally ONLY listened to hip hop, who then got into hip hop that was radically different from the hip hop they were raised on (and in this case raised on means, the hip hop the media shoved down their throats) and started using the phrase the OP has said
34. "it makes perfect sense actually" In response to Reply # 30
rap is what hip-hop music was marketed as when it started to be capitalized on by the music industry
hip-hop is what many see as the term for the organic culture
so it makes sense that more commercial stuff would be labelled "rap" & less commercial stuff (or DJ/beat based stuff like Shadow) would be labelled hip-hop
________________________________________________________________ whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me
45. "bullshit" In response to Reply # 34 Tue Jul-23-13 06:26 PM by Bombastic
there wasn't even really big money in this shit until 'hip-hop' started becoming the catchphrase in the mainstream for it in the 90's.
In '88 when they were having hysterical 'Rap Rage' Newsweek cover stories about the dangers of this music's (artists named: Public Enemy, De La Soul, Boogie Down Productions, Eric B & Rakim, NWA) effect on the minds of their little white children, it was called 'rap music'.
Then those same kids & their little brothers decide Puffy or 50 Cent sucks and enjoy Black-Star so now the former is called 'rap' and the later is real 'hip-hop'?
No, stop. Fuck Outta Here. Stop speaking out of turn about shit y'all don't know as much about as you think you do.
57. "I mean I've laid it out fairly plainly the whys/whats/whens as I see it" In response to Reply # 50
if you have a question or objection to anything I said specifically, let me know & I can address it.
Because without it, I'm at a loss for any more of a 'substantive' way to say that empty-phrases like the one in this post's subject-line lack substance than what I've already typed.
67. "wouldn't say it's full outrage but when one takes a genre label " In response to Reply # 66
that has been used for 30+ years & changes its meaning due to their own 'taste' it's not something that should be co-signed, allowing such things to slide will only lead to further confusion.
I've never actually heard Kool Herc because I wasn't there & don't even know whether he in fact had rappers rocking along with him or even if he was fully doing 'breaks' in the same fashion that we'd later come to hear.
But I can say Coldcrush, Funky 4 Plus 1, Grandmaster Caz, Melle Mel, Busy Bee would certainly consider themselves rappers & many times referred to rapping on record.
83. "you're making it more complicated than need be tho, 'rapping'" In response to Reply # 79 Tue Jul-23-13 07:35 PM by Bombastic
is what he describes his activity in the opening stanza to be (not even taking into account the song's title) before proceeding with the rest of the song.
And yes there's the 'hip-hop, hippie-to-the-hippie' parts but there's also 'bang bang boogie to the woogie said up jumps the boogie'.
Those words are better turned over by the tongue in that early rhythmic scat style.
The stuff was a 'new' form to probably most that heard it but came from somewhere, it was 'rapping' which was a byproduct/element of the burgeoning 'hip-hop' culture it came from and as a result hip-hop/rap-music.
>did the pioneers call the music they were making "hip-hop" or >"rap" > > oh, I thought that was over at 'u'd have to ask em' a few replies ago (a MUSCLES cameo in this post would be cool) but I'm imagining both words were used with rap representing the emceeing branch of the movement.
32. "I like both country and western" In response to Reply # 0
and when I meet a chick and she asks me what kind of music I listen to the most, I tell her hip-hop... and inevitably she's says, oh, yeah, I don't listen to a lot of rap.
37. "I said shit this when I was like 16, 17 lol" In response to Reply # 0
It sounds corny as fuck in retrospect.
I think there IS a distinction, but to be so indignant about it as to make the statement in the OP is pretentious.
Full disclosure, when I was in high school I turned up my nose to Get Rich or Die Trying when it came out because of how mainstream it was and because every brain dead asshole in my school was obsessed with In Da Club. I didn't necessarily dislike the music, I didn't hate 50, I just hated the parroting mindless people who only have heard of 6 rappers and then want to try and talk about the music like they're an authority. These are the same people who said things like "Lil Wayne is the best rapper alive" circa 2007 and MEANT it. I met people at parties in college those years that would spit vitriolic insults when arguing about Wayne's merits as the GOAT. THOSE type of people are the reason why I think young, impressionable fans of hip-hop music want to make a distinction, to separate themselves from the masses, to individualize themselves.
Later that year I finally listened to GRODT front to back and said "damn... this is a banger." Started to be less and less snobbish in regards to hip-hop as the years went on, but you could still catch me making fun of southern rappers, or nodding in agreement when Nas said Hip-Hop is Dead. I still have an elitist inside of me that tries to fight his way out from time to time.
I'm 26 years old now, and I've come to realize that this shit is NOT that serious. Nobody is winning any medals by defending Hip-Hop's honor, lol. The art form or culture that Hip-Hop started out as does not really exist anymore in the same form. Where do you even draw the line? Who decides what is and isn't hip-hop? I pick my battles more in my advanced age, and trying to be pedantic about a form of music where even the BEST artists spit lyrics like "pretty dick, puttin stitches in they anus" is just not worth my time lol
80. "Overcharacterization of music is always an eye-roller to me" In response to Reply # 78
>im not really convinced tho > >i dont really find it more condescending than clowning or >judging someone as a "fan" because they say it > >that said i wouldn't say it bc a good bit of the hip-hop i >bump is, indeed, rap (meaning it has a rapper rapping) > >so maybe its not factual but i feel like something else is >going on here
It's the same thing as those who list their favorite "genres" such as: Post-Modern Ambient Funk, Electro/Deep Trance, etc
87. "Not at all dude" In response to Reply # 82 Tue Jul-23-13 08:47 PM by PCProductions
If someone asks me "Yo, do you listen to rap?" and I say "No, I listen to Hip Hop" you wouldn't get a whiff of shit? Like, I understood what music you were talking about and I'm going out of my way to correct him when it's the same shit?
In your argument, you say rap is a specific thing and hip hop is broader when it reality people pretty much understand them to be the same basic category. Trying to make it a separate thing is just pedantic man. If you prefer instrumental shit (coincidentally, I'm with you there) then just say instrumetanl because it makes way more sense and is MUCH more descriptive rather than the Hip Hop vs. Rap garbage.
As far the notion that I'm being ironically elitist by judging people for being elitist... I think that's just getting too deep into it. I'm not going to disassociate myself with someone who would correct me on saying Hip Hop isn't rap, but that statement would get a funny look from me is all.
81. "RE: "i listen to hip hop, not rap."" In response to Reply # 0
For me there's an aspect to the word 'rap' that I associate with derogatory usage, like when I was a kid getting the "oh you listen to that rap crap" from people (living in a mostly white area from age 12 on). I'm not sure to what extent this is an issue twenty years later, but I know it's one of the things that inclines me to prefer the word hip-hop in usage, still trying to subtly convey to phantoms that this thing I like is substantive. In that context, though, I feel like the words are interchangeable, "hip-hop" and "rap" are referring to the same thing.
The way it's used here I associate with a specific time - the late 90s/early 00s underground, a backlash against the mainstream stuff in part but eventually convoluted as people started to perceive certain aspects of that underground as "backpacker" and gentrified, backlashing against the backlash. I think there's a lot interesting in that time as far as the racial dynamic and how that influences perceptions of what's authentic, and I feel as though that might have something of an analogue in attitudes re: east-coast/west-coast distinctions in jazz, though I have not thought this through completely.
90. "The past 6 or 7 years have really deaded this attitude, huh?" In response to Reply # 0
Rap music has changed so much and become so inclusive of other sounds, images, and attitudes that everyone basically listens to the same stuff, or at the very least doesn't feel vehement hatred for "mainstream" rap.
I mean I smell whiffs of it when people come at Chief Keef extra hard, and it took a while for certain folks to warm up to Drake.
Even rock critics argue that Waka's first album is a classic (not really, but it goes hard) and act like they are blasting that Migos mixtape on their way to Whole Foods.
------------------------------- If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil
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