i mean let's be honest...
i know i'm one of the very few people on here that accurately remembers the early 00's (or cares to)
but less we forget...
even when clipse was at their zenith (2002/2003) niggas were always clowning em for being cb4 rappers with cornball wack as hell rhymes.
straight up clownish portrayals of every drug dealer/rapper cliches.

so when people start talking about clipse, or more specifically pusha t (like there was any real difference between the 2 as rappers) like he was some incredible innovator or some incredible TALENT?
come off that.

we let the saint-ification of lil wayne happen in the mid-00's, when people actually convinced themselves that the dude from "hardball" with sammie and lil zane was "one of the goats".

pusha t, though?
i'm not having it.

if you let them convince you pharrell's skateboard polisher was anything more than a footnote for a brief period in rap's darkest years then we might as well just give moses levi another multi-million dollar deal too.

somebody sign up mr. man or bubonic as a solo act and let the media machine work it's magic...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N05DyLgSSDU

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

I like some of his rhymes and I do think he's clever, but he's not some all-world talent like I've been hearing
he rhymes the exact same way as he did on their debut and on Kelis' stuff, but with a more relaxed tone, but nobody was saying that shit then

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

That's Mr Sniffles you talking bout. Stop hating: he could lyrically eviscerate your favorite rapper and he's paid dues.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

lil' Dap and what's his face...

m.f.'s talk about Slum Village don't be talking about schitt...

ALL COKE RHYMES turn into the "Charlie Brown Teacher" to me...
so them m.f.'s basically just riding the beats.
I'on't play with that schitt.

s.blak
The Purple Tape

keep: looking,searching,seeking,finding

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

lyrically, musically, conceptually...

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

i'm assuming you've heard the albums. Malice and Pusha are better rappers period. Boo Bonic was cool though. his PNC was trash. nothing much to expound on since PMW only had The Neps for one album. the sounds were similar musically.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

>Malice and Pusha are
>better rappers period.

how?
lyrically, their voices, their delivery?
what exactly sets clipse apart from PWM in your own words?

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

Your effort to bait users with such transparent disingenuousness is quite hokey for you, no?

because i'm not being disingenuous in the least when i say that there are very little differences between the 2 groups on any front.

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

I've haven't heard much hate on Push before, nor any top-10 or GOAT talk either.

Malice & Pusha sounded alike on Lord Willin'....not since, by the re-up tapes they were different emcees.

I can't respect different tastes, but Pusha being wack, FOH. Then again if you don't get the magic of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXg8BhSlBGo

then it's just not for you.

phemom's the name, all-star writer/
searching 4 journalistic fame, mindframe igniter....www.twitter.com/hayabusaage

----

https://weketchum.contently.com/

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

Between I'd say Volume 2 and Black Album, there were maybe 4 albums I really cared about. Chronic 2001, Eminem's two and Lord Willin'. Everything else to me was kind of garbage (I've come around to a lot of it now as curiosities, but as a kid I hated most albums I heard with singles I loved, like DMX, Jadakiss and Ja Rule) until 2004/2005, with Speakerboxxx/Love Below, Madvillainy, all the Black Album remixes, the We Got It for Cheap series, Lil' Wayne blacking out in the underground with Sqad Up, T.I. and Young Jeezy carving lanes...

1998 - 2003 is definitely the rap period I can speak least about, and those were my middle school years when I should've been neck deep but I was tapping out.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>1998 - 2003 is definitely the rap period I can speak least
>about, and those were my middle school years when I should've
>been neck deep but I was tapping out.

sounds about the time where I tuned out of a lot of shit. I basically messed with #ThisSite's favored artists, a few underground records here and there, but most "big budget" items... NOPE

strangely enough I have an assload of 12"s and CDs from indie artists from this period

This is not a new development. Over time, people just realized that this guy always delivers,
whether on Clipse albums, guest spots, or what have you.

And let's not act like Lil Wayne didn't flood the market with mixtapes and put in hella work
to get put in the conversation of GOAT. I'm not saying he's GOAT. I'm just saying he put in
alotta work to get the accolades he gets.

Pusha T has slowly but surely become that guy that people EXPECT to drop fire every time he touches
a mic. This didn't happen over night though. He built that organically.

I agree that he wasn't in the conversation on the Clipse debut, but he's definitely cultivated his right
to be in the conversation... and he did that with good old fashioned CONSISTENCY.
I think that's mad respectable.

is the marketing aspect of all of this.

i know we like to tell ourselves that this is all happening serendipitously but when somebody who was essentially a bench warmer inks a deal and all of a sudden their earlier career starts to get viewed with rose-colored glasses, nothing has changed except the frame in which it's being presented.
either you change your mind to match that frame, or you hold on to what it was originally and watch everyone else fall for the bait.

pusha t, again, was little more than a footnote in 02/03 rap's landscape. his relevance was mostly dependent on his relationship with pharrell, hence his deal in the first place.

unlike alot of you i actually went back and listened to nearly every radio/tv single that was released from 2002-2004.
and while yes, it was THAT bad.
the clipse were not some shining light through the fog of awful rap music that everyone gravitated toward, they were just another cog in the awful wheel.

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

> his relevance was mostly dependent on his
>relationship with pharrell, hence his deal in the first
>place.
>

you can't talk about that entire era w/o
mentioning pharell.

by that logic, justin timberlake had no relevance in black music
because his relevancy was based on his proximity to the neptunes and timbaland.


the neptunes got lots of folks some love from black folks that wouldn't have been there otherwise.

JT
no doubt
britney spears

what are you saying?






>unlike alot of you i actually went back and listened to nearly
>every radio/tv single that was released from 2002-2004.
>and while yes, it was THAT bad.
>the clipse were not some shining light through the fog of
>awful rap music that everyone gravitated toward, they were
>just another cog in the awful wheel.

I'm saying he's slowly become someone who's counted upon to deliver hot verses. That's not because
of marketing... it's because his verses have been hot for a long time. That's really all there is
to it.

it was singles oriented and producer driven,
so there weren't a gang of classic albums.

but that entire era was like an 80s throwback time period.
it was a relatively diverse pop-music landscape.
pharell, timbaland, kanye, and all of the producers influenced by them
made a made a bunch of great pop tunes.

i remember the local virginia radio station used to play neptunes tracks that leaked early, so i was hearing hits weeks before they got major radio play.

i have always maintained a strongly defensive stance when it comes to pop.
and that era had a lot of great pop.



i don't know what music you were listening to,
but that shit was awesome.

i remember because i was a voracious musicnlistener at the time,
and i remember hearing a great crop of songs every few months.


i won't argue with you about it though...
b/c i know you don't have ears for the era.
but there was a lot of great songs that broke mainstream.

>i mean let's be honest...
>i know i'm one of the very few people on here that accurately
>remembers the early 00's (or cares to)
>but less we forget...
>even when clipse was at their zenith (2002/2003) niggas were
>always clowning em for being cb4 rappers with cornball wack as
>hell rhymes.
>straight up clownish portrayals of every drug dealer/rapper
>cliches.
>
>so when people start talking about clipse, or more
>specifically pusha t (like there was any real difference
>between the 2 as rappers) like he was some incredible
>innovator or some incredible TALENT?
>come off that.
>
>we let the saint-ification of lil wayne happen in the
>mid-00's, when people actually convinced themselves that the
>dude from "hardball" with sammie and lil zane was "one of the
>goats".
>
>pusha t, though?
>i'm not having it.
>
>if you let them convince you pharrell's skateboard polisher
>was anything more than a footnote for a brief period in rap's
>darkest years then we might as well just give moses levi
>another multi-million dollar deal too.
>
>somebody sign up mr. man or bubonic as a solo act and let the
>media machine work it's magic...
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N05DyLgSSDU

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

I've experienced literally none of what you mentioned in your first post. I remember the Clipse being a dope rap group that never really got the shine it deserved. At the time you mentioned I remember being baffled as to why Nelly got so much shine but the Clipse never really "blew". The third album is near classic status (even though I like the fourth more).

Lil wayne got really popular because he had a huge marketing push and a very well received album (Carter II and to a lesser extent The Carter)

I really can't put falseness in the criteria for dope music because 1. I don't know any of these people in real life and 2. If I didn't listen to rapper who were fake I would miss out on a bunch of (all?)dope gangster rap.

That being said Pusha T's last mixtape was kinda wack.

www.anwarmorse.com
https://www.instagram.com/thereal_anwarmorse99/

>I've experienced literally none of what you mentioned in your
>first post. I remember the Clipse being a dope rap group that
>never really got the shine it deserved. At the time you
>mentioned I remember being baffled as to why Nelly got so much
>shine but the Clipse never really "blew". The third album is
>near classic status (even though I like the fourth more).

I feel you with this one.

>Lil wayne got really popular because he had a huge marketing
>push and a very well received album (Carter II and to a lesser
>extent The Carter)

This I disagree with. Lil Wayne became popular because he found out that if he catered to both ends of the spectrum: real hip hop heads who treasure great lyrics and delivery and cats who just want something catchy to repeat and a beat to bounce to. Had he not did the Squad Up mixtapes, he wouldn't be the star he is today. But, the problem is, most young cats don't remember those tapes because they were too young.

>I really can't put falseness in the criteria for dope music
>because 1. I don't know any of these people in real life and
>2. If I didn't listen to rapper who were fake I would miss out
>on a bunch of (all?)dope gangster rap.

Amen.
>That being said Pusha T's last mixtape was kinda wack.

Yessir.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

He works better in a group setting. He's good at verses but clearly needs his brother and/or Pharrell for the hooks. He can probably make a decent solo album but I doubt it'll be anywhere near the quality of the first two Clipse albums.

Agreed. The Clipse often worked due to the chemistry between the two and malice would usually drop a more thoughtful/introspective verse with a different slant that made the whole act more palatable.

Now all we're left with is Pusha T's over the top posturing.. It doesn't work as well.

That being said, I'm still glad he's got his shine through the Good Music hook up.

and its so dissapointing :/

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

if you want to find me an MC who that far ahead of push (and malice.. and fuck, ab liva too) in terms of *mean* lyrics during that era, i'd be happy to hear them.. some of his shit on HHNF was just extremely sharp.. and honestly, i think he's getting even better in terms of how well he's thinking out his rhymes these days..

.. and early on, i'll agree that there wasn't a ton of difference between malice and push.. but they really grew into their own distinct personalities of "the clipse".. push was the colder, bolder, more youthful take on the "coke game" and kinda felt like he was carefree and enjoying the ride.. malice was really on some mature, eloquent, big picture-thinking gangster shit..

not to sound like a dick, but i think your opinion here is a little under-informed.. push has def. had several stages and is actually continuing to grow as an MC and a songwriter (personally, i think part of that is working with 'ye).. go back and give a *good* listen to HHNF, We Got it For Cheap 2 & 3 and the Road to Til the Casket Drops mixtape.. dude's been an evolving monster for a while now

sorry to burst your bubble but grindin/when the last time/cot damn was their zenith.

mr me too was popular but not anywhere near as popular as grindin or when the last time and that was pretty much their swan song to a national audience.

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

>sorry to burst your bubble but grindin/when the last time/cot
>damn was their zenith.
>
>mr me too was popular but not anywhere near as popular as
>grindin or when the last time and that was pretty much their
>swan song to a national audience.

But, popularity has almost nothing to do with quality. Give me Keys Open Doors, Ridin' Around Shining and the We Got It For Cheap (Intro) any day over some of the tracks you mentioned.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

HHNF is starting to feel a bit like a "had to be there" album to me. Not that it's any less amazing today, but I'm feeling more and more like if I want to put people onto the Clipse, I'll hand them Lord Willin'. Drop the two ladies tracks and the two remixes, and I'd contend there's an 11/12 track album sitting there that's 80% FIRE singles or would be singles, and the cuts I'd consider strictly for the album aren't anything like filler.


I feel like I could give someone the Lord Willin' album today and pop kids would get their wigs blown just as much as lyric pad watchers.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

i do like calling rappers by their nicknames lol whatever... but yea, i didn't mean popularity at all.. you were talking about ppl starting to talk about pusha t as some sort of great MC... that didn't coincide with the height of their popularity.. and i know you know that too.

>even when clipse was at their zenith (2002/2003) niggas were
>always clowning em for being cb4 rappers with cornball wack as
>hell rhymes.
>straight up clownish portrayals of every drug dealer/rapper
>cliches.

In fact, I remember the opposite.. There was an interview in i believe XXL where they talked about being low level drug dealers and how they quit because of the community damage, and there was a run of 'HOW COULD THEY GLORIFY THIS LIFE?' arguments

>>even when clipse was at their zenith (2002/2003) niggas
>were
>>always clowning em for being cb4 rappers with cornball wack
>as
>>hell rhymes.
>>straight up clownish portrayals of every drug dealer/rapper
>>cliches.
>
>In fact, I remember the opposite.. There was an interview in
>i believe XXL where they talked about being low level drug
>dealers and how they quit because of the community damage, and
>there was a run of 'HOW COULD THEY GLORIFY THIS LIFE?'
>arguments

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

>>even when clipse was at their zenith (2002/2003) niggas
>were
>>always clowning em for being cb4 rappers with cornball wack
>as
>>hell rhymes.
>>straight up clownish portrayals of every drug dealer/rapper
>>cliches.
>
>In fact, I remember the opposite.. There was an interview in
>i believe XXL where they talked about being low level drug
>dealers and how they quit because of the community damage, and
>there was a run of 'HOW COULD THEY GLORIFY THIS LIFE?'
>arguments

Yeah, I don't remember them ever being clowned for that either. Never any stories coming out exposing them as liars, etc..

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

I have never heard or read any of these opinions anywhere, ever.

Clipse have been / were two of the best out from the moment anyone caught wind of them. From their style to their sound, no one could do it better.

Lord Willin' is probably the single most enjoyable gangster album from that decade, man. It's got 7 or 8 would-be or were singles, a couple weak actual singles, couple album cuts and some remixes you can toss. Out of 15 tracks, over half of them are certified A-1 and only a couple are weak...I couldn't even go as far as unfuckwithable.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

His run from Lights out to Carter 3 is amazing.

Pusha got hype cause of the we got it for cheap mixtapes thats when started to be hailed in the underground

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

His mixtapes have aged much better than his albums from that era.

>His mixtapes have aged much better than his albums from that
>era.

Amen.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

From those who bump the squad tapes...squad 4 is a classic

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

>His run from Lights out to Carter 3 is amazing.
>

Amazing run. Sqad 1-7, Prefix, Suffix, Carter 1 & 2, Dedication 1 & 2, The Drought 1-3. He put out some amazing work during that period.

---------------------------------

"...avoid P man take ya baby moms advice..."

http://twitter.com/DrunkUncleP

this post assumes a lot, particularly you never hearing Wayne's Sqad mixtapes and older albums, ditto for Got It 4 Cheap Vol 1 & 2

>particularly you never hearing
>Wayne's Sqad mixtapes and older albums, ditto for Got It 4
>Cheap Vol 1 & 2

your super-power is you can willingly recall any pop. accepted opinion somebody else perpetuated at the drop of a dime.
your super-human abilities are known only as... "mediocrity".

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

may be attributed to dude actually getting some pussy.

Not sure if 'lonely' applies anymore.

about the way he engages debates about rap

he comes into them not only claiming he's right, but from a position where he assumes no one on the board "turly" understands his question/thesis

it's hard headed and frustrationing, because SOME TIMES he brings up very valid points and quality insight into the history of rap as a commodity over the past 15-20 yrs.

for example in this post alone MANY people outside the industry he claims to be producing this Pusha as GOAT campaign, have said in their various parts of the country, within their "teams", Pusha's rise was organic and due to the WGIFC mixtapes and HHNF. but because it doesn't fit nicely into his narrative, he refutes them all as just wrong... okay maybe it is a little dumb

>for example in this post alone MANY people outside the
>industry he claims to be producing this Pusha as GOAT
>campaign, have said in their various parts of the country,
>within their "teams", Pusha's rise was organic and due to the
>WGIFC mixtapes and HHNF. but because it doesn't fit nicely
>into his narrative, he refutes them all as just wrong... okay
>maybe it is a little dumb

yeah before the GOOD deal, people were clamoring for that Pusha T solo career.

remember that classic re-up gang album?

dude's fizzled out organically.

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

>>particularly you never hearing
>>Wayne's Sqad mixtapes and older albums, ditto for Got It 4
>>Cheap Vol 1 & 2
>
>your super-power is you can willingly recall any pop. accepted
>opinion somebody else perpetuated at the drop of a dime.
>your super-human abilities are known only as... "mediocrity".

But, because someone disagrees with your stance automatically makes them an automaton? They're not allowed to have opinions contrary to yours?

Also, if you're saying that his opinion is the popular one, then you defeat your whole argument:

"even when clipse was at their zenith (2002/2003) niggas were always clowning em for being cb4 rappers with cornball wack as hell rhymes.
straight up clownish portrayals of every drug dealer/rapper cliches."

Those statements "sound" as if you're saying this was the common consensus on the Clipse. Now you're saying that atruhead is espousing the "popular" opinion.

So, which is it?

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

>So, which is it?

exactly what i said in the OP.

rose-colored glasses looking back now
in 02/03 a lot of people were (rightfully) clowning how corny they were.

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

>i mean let's be honest...
>i know i'm one of the very few people on here that accurately
>remembers the early 00's (or cares to)
>but less we forget...
>even when clipse was at their zenith (2002/2003) niggas were
>always clowning em for being cb4 rappers with cornball wack as
>hell rhymes.

prove it....


>straight up clownish portrayals of every drug dealer/rapper
>cliches.

glad you didnt listen to the album
because hell hath no fury was not clownish
if hello new world or stay from around me are clownish gadzooks


>so when people start talking about clipse, or more
>specifically pusha t (like there was any real difference
>between the 2 as rappers) like he was some incredible
>innovator or some incredible TALENT?
>come off that.

who said they were innovators
i dug the music and thats it


>we let the saint-ification of lil wayne happen in the
>mid-00's, when people actually convinced themselves that the
>dude from "hardball" with sammie and lil zane was "one of the
>goats".

like another poster said...he had a legitimate time where he was upper echelon
and he has been riding that since carter 2

>pusha t, though?
>i'm not having it.
>
>if you let them convince you pharrell's skateboard polisher
>was anything more than a footnote for a brief period in rap's
>darkest years then we might as well just give moses levi
>another multi-million dollar deal too.

nigga speak english

>somebody sign up mr. man or bubonic as a solo act and let the
>media machine work it's magic...

wow your really are delusional

______________________________________

Navem nu, cuando sol
Tutu nu, vondo nos nu
Vita em, no continous non
Nos nu ekta nos sepe ta, amen

When the sun shades the ship
We sweat and life is not safe
To swim or to touch not
When we unite we hedge amen

people have always thought pusha t was a dope rapper

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

what the OP is saying is that Pusha's been built up to be well above his weight class since his signing

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

He says Pusha was never anything more than Pharrell's weed carrier. It's typical Bammer shit: state something obvious (in this case, Pusha doesn't work as a solo artist) and drown it in bitter boom bap fundamentalist fantasy (Pusha can't rap/nobody liked The Clipse).

not the sentiment
you guys should know this shit by now

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

the OP of this post just horrible revisionism

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

you guys KNOW how he gets down and how he posts, and you're genuinely surprised there's a discussion to be had here about something you don't agree with
typical OKP shit

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

>He says Pusha was never anything more than Pharrell's weed
>carrier. It's typical Bammer shit: state something obvious
>(in this case, Pusha doesn't work as a solo artist) and drown
>it in bitter boom bap fundamentalist fantasy (Pusha can't
>rap/nobody liked The Clipse).

He just needs to get his hooks right.

Honestly, I think he's a B+ emcee and also have never really had any problems with his content matter. He consistently finds new ways (metaphors, similes, popular culture references) of keeping his subject matter interesting.

To me, asking Push to change subject matter is like asking Stephen King why he keeps writing horror and Scorcese to leave macabre noir alone.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

>what the OP is saying is that Pusha's been built up to be
>well above his weight class since his signing

Then Fear of God II would have flew off the shelves, which it didn't.

In my opinion, I think he's been struggling to find proper musical backgrounds for himself. The biggest mistake he made was trying to latch on to the trap sound, which really wasn't necessary for him because it took away from his lyrics.

Now, I think he's onto something with Numbers On The Board.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

his solo work has dissapointed me but that latest song....dope

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

>Then Fear of God II would have flew off the shelves, which it
>didn't.
>

we're talking talent level here, not sales or marketing
you guys are making this out to be something it isn't


>In my opinion, I think he's been struggling to find proper
>musical backgrounds for himself. The biggest mistake he made
>was trying to latch on to the trap sound, which really wasn't
>necessary for him because it took away from his lyrics.
>

it doesn't work for him at all, and it sounds like somebody told him that was the direction to go in

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

>
>>Then Fear of God II would have flew off the shelves, which
>it
>>didn't.
>>
>
>we're talking talent level here, not sales or marketing
>you guys are making this out to be something it isn't

Ok. I'm just thinking that if we're making comparisons to Wayne, then that's the most glaring discrepancy: dismal sales on Pusha's part.

>>In my opinion, I think he's been struggling to find proper
>>musical backgrounds for himself. The biggest mistake he
>made
>>was trying to latch on to the trap sound, which really
>wasn't
>>necessary for him because it took away from his lyrics.
>>
>
>it doesn't work for him at all, and it sounds like somebody
>told him that was the direction to go in

You may be right. I personally think he just kind of wanted to ride that bandwagon. But, everything ain't for everybody.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

prior to the end of the Clipse. On their mixtapes, they rapped over everything. And on their albums, they created some very singular formats each time out. You can't really describe Clipse by their music, you have to describe them by their lyrics, and that's a part of what's missing from most of this post.

The focus of the Clipse has always wound up on Pusha T because the Neptunes (and later DJ Khalil) changed the sound each time and Malice was content to let his younger brother play frontman while he re-read the bible. And the Clipse have consistently made great - if not amazing - music so it's no surprise to me people expect that out of Pusha on his own.

But without ever really being defined by any one sound, I feel like the segue into trap music just seemed like an easy transition to him. After all, elements of his early work helped draft the blueprint and it's hard to deny the ubiquitous, boom bap-ish nature of the trap scene in this time.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the lukewarm material he's put has just been him being cautious, either. The third Clipse album didn't exactly fly off shelves and he was hitting a 100% refresh on his team.



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Nobody's trying to lift Pusha to any kind of status. People just notice his consistency. It's like
someone getting their long overdue props... a la Bun B and the 5 Mic album. And if a person progresses
slowly over time to become a guy who rarely ever drops a weak verse, they deserve their recognition.
Just because he was 'that guy' on the first album doesn't mean he should always be discounted. The OP
is essentially saying "don't ever say he's great, because his debut wasn't great". That's silly.

Even his example of Lil Wayne is wrong, because even his biggest stans said he stepped his
game up at a certain point... which he did. I don't know ANYBODY who says he was always the
best. He just went into turbo drive.

>Nobody's trying to lift Pusha to any kind of status. People
>just notice his consistency. It's like
>someone getting their long overdue props... a la Bun B and the
>5 Mic album.

people ARE starting to do that shit, he's not wrong about that
I see it myself in the barbershop discussions all the time and it's always 'well yeah he's down with Kaney now, he's about to blow' and never about rapping ability (which he doesn't lack but he's not a great)


>And if a person progresses
>slowly over time to become a guy who rarely ever drops a weak
>verse, they deserve their recognition.

I agree, but that's not what we're talking about here


>Just because he was 'that guy' on the first album doesn't mean
>he should always be discounted. The OP
>is essentially saying "don't ever say he's great, because his
>debut wasn't great". That's silly.
>

he's saying 'he wasn't a great then, and he's still not one' which is true


>Even his example of Lil Wayne is wrong, because even his
>biggest stans said he stepped his
>game up at a certain point... which he did. I don't know
>ANYBODY who says he was always the
>best. He just went into turbo drive.

Wayne isn't a great either
he didn't do anything that nobody else did before, there's no innovation on his part
being a horrible rapper then becoming a good one while gaining popularity during a talent drought doesn't make you a great

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

>Wayne isn't a great either
>he didn't do anything that nobody else did before, there's no
>innovation on his part
>being a horrible rapper then becoming a good one while gaining
>popularity during a talent drought doesn't make you a great
>
By those lofty standards, BIG, nor Jay, nor LL, nor Cube, nor countless others are greats.

I think innovation is great, but, something is also to be said for consistency. And, to me, that's what makes the aforementioned guys greats moreso than their innovation.

If we're gonna go solely by innovation, the list of greats will be very brief.

And, the fact that everyone else sucks while someone else is making their ascent does not in any way diminish that accomplishment.

By that logic, the seismic shift that Apple caused in the cell phone game with the original IPhone is paltry because, at that time, foolishly, all the other phone companies were purposefully stifling growth in the industry by simply releasing new colors of 3 year old phones.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

----

https://weketchum.contently.com/

(that point on which I do agree... dude's ascension reminds me a lil too much of Jay's, albeit, much like Jay, people really started paying attention to him when he "dumbed down his flow, and doubled his dollars", and ignore his more merit-worthy material)

and I also don't believe anyone else thought Pusha T/Clipse to be some jobber group, either. They also weren't calling them GOATS unless they were SUPER Pharrell stans (SPM?)

>and I also don't believe anyone else thought Pusha T/Clipse to
>be some jobber group,

i did/do.
i'd group pusha t with lloyd banks.
10 years after the "buzz" has worn off - lloyd banks was just a fabolous knock-off.

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

>>and I also don't believe anyone else thought Pusha T/Clipse
>to
>>be some jobber group,
>
>i did/do.
>i'd group pusha t with lloyd banks.
>10 years after the "buzz" has worn off - lloyd banks was just
>a fabolous knock-off.

A Fabolous knockoff?! I'm sorry, but those two really have nothing in common other than their both being New Yorkers.

And, Banks is still nice. Some of his recent mix tapes have been pretty good.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

>i did/do.

hence I said "anyone else". You're literally the only one I've heard that said about them. Most people kind of treated them as an above-average "middle class" group, except Neptunes super-Stans.

>i'd group pusha t with lloyd banks.
>10 years after the "buzz" has worn off - lloyd banks was just
>a fabolous knock-off.

A Fabolous knock off? I do agree that Banks was a cut above "weed carrier" but Fabo? I'm gonna have to go back, listen to both and see where this one came from

>A Fabolous knock off? I do agree that Banks was a cut above
>"weed carrier" but Fabo? I'm gonna have to go back, listen to
>both and see where this one came from

fab was the biggest underground rapper in ny when that first g-unit tape dropped and lloyd banks debuted.
he was biting his whole approach to rapping from '01 fabolous.
he was a budget fab in 50's crew of jabronis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG2QPAkSqIo

but then - you've got people in this thread claiming clipse and pmw were not comparable, so i don't anybody to be able to make sense of this comparison.

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

i believe pusha t as a fake coke boy (what he was) more than i do as a successful person (what he is), meaning now that he is rapping about things that are actually happening to him, like owning expensive cars and traveling the world, he's somehow less convincing than he was when he was lying his ass off about moving bricks in VA

goddamn that was one cornball ass act even when they were at the best.

niggas took drug-rap to new harrowingly drab/mundane lows.

---
“Change is inevitable. Progress is optional.” – Tony Robbins

Please continue flailing about...

>goddamn that was one cornball ass act even when they were at
>the best.
>
>niggas took drug-rap to new harrowingly drab/mundane lows.

You can't attribute that solely to the Clipse. Anyone could have printed up those tees. Literally.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

>even when clipse was at their zenith (2002/2003) niggas were
>always clowning em for being cb4 rappers with cornball wack as
>hell rhymes.
>straight up clownish portrayals of every drug dealer/rapper
>cliches.

Maybe you were, but that wasn't the consensus - I'd *never* seen that opinion, to be honest. Some people rocked with their music, and some didn't, but I never heard that idea at all.


>so when people start talking about clipse, or more
>specifically pusha t (like there was any real difference
>between the 2 as rappers) like he was some incredible
>innovator or some incredible TALENT?
>come off that.

Innovator? No. But Pusha T was respected as a good emcee ever since Lord Willin'. I remember a lot of people hearing Lord Willin', Hell Hath No Fury and the We Got It For Cheap mixtapes, and always talking about how much Pusha T snapped, and about how he needed to drop a solo mixtape or solo album. Before he signed to G.O.O.D., I remember a pretty high demand for solo material. That's part of what made his signing to G.O.O.D. such a big deal to people.

I think his current kudos are his mixtape, album, and cameo work all accumulating into someone with a bigger platform than he had before.


>we let the saint-ification of lil wayne happen in the
>mid-00's, when people actually convinced themselves that the
>dude from "hardball" with sammie and lil zane was "one of the
>goats".

I don't think Lil Wayne is one of the GOATS, but his mixtape run and the first two Carters were really strong. What does him being in "Hardball" have to do with his music otherwise?


>if you let them convince you pharrell's skateboard polisher
>was anything more than a footnote for a brief period in rap's
>darkest years then we might as well just give moses levi
>another multi-million dollar deal too.

Again, if he's a footnote to *you*, that's fine. But don't underestimate the work he's already done and the impact he's had for other rap fans.

----

https://weketchum.contently.com/

>Again, if he's a footnote to *you*, that's fine. But don't
>underestimate the work he's already done and the impact he's
>had for other rap fans.

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

but other then that co-sign

i wish id looked at Author before i clicked