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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 03:56 PM

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""


  

          

*he probably don't really have the © on that (ie wasn't the first to say it) but dis his house!

paraphrased definition courtesy of Tone:

"Music that wasn't necessarily "good" (and to be fair, or "bad"), but it was "effective" to consumers and/or club goers."

I remember reading it from 15 but can't remember what it was about to find it on the boards if it hasn't been deleted. But anyway I think it's a very very interesting topic so lets discuss. Some talking points:

* If you are an 'effected' listener (lol) do you actually like music?
* Who do you think was the most musically talented but effective musician?
* Is it the same as watering down?
* Is the crux of it just not doing things that are not effective? If yes wouldn't that mean you can't take risks?
* But, what's effective changes right, so who changes it?

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Jan 03rd 2013
1
Danke!! And how appropriate!!
Jan 03rd 2013
2
yep.
Jan 03rd 2013
5
You can debate quality and effectiveness separately, no?
Jan 03rd 2013
9
      Not with those that think effective = good
Jan 03rd 2013
12
           No, they're not
Jan 03rd 2013
15
also Beyonce (link)
Jan 03rd 2013
3
      yeah
Jan 03rd 2013
4
     
Jan 03rd 2013
7
      "Agreed. Not to mention, the song is wack." <- Man, I was pissy then
Jan 03rd 2013
6
I think the queen is Rihanna
Jan 03rd 2013
8
"diamonds" is lyrical and stylistic autopilot
Jan 03rd 2013
11
Michael Jackson
Jan 03rd 2013
10
I don't know...
Jan 03rd 2013
13
Incidentally what was the 'effectiveness'
Jan 03rd 2013
14
RE: You just trolled your own post.
Jan 04th 2013
16
but was it 'effective'?
Jan 04th 2013
17
RE: In terms of laughs?
Jan 04th 2013
20
*dead*
Jan 04th 2013
18
Isn't that what ?uest was saying though? That Def Jam....
Jan 04th 2013
19
i wonder if there's an analogue to be found
Jan 04th 2013
21

howisya
Member since Nov 09th 2002
39983 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 04:02 PM

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1. ""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>I remember reading it from 15 but can't remember what it was
>about to find it on the boards if it hasn't been deleted.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2599898&mesg_id=2599898&listing_type=search#2599983

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 04:09 PM

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2. "Danke!! And how appropriate!!"
In response to Reply # 1
Thu Jan-03-13 04:09 PM by imcvspl

  

          

One of the biggest songs of the year. Debating whether it was good or not is a moot point because it was so effective. And his statement on the standard for 2011, still rings true no?
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85056 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 04:48 PM

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5. "yep."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>One of the biggest songs of the year. Debating whether it
>was good or not is a moot point because it was so effective.
>And his statement on the standard for 2011, still rings true
>no?

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 04:57 PM

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9. "You can debate quality and effectiveness separately, no?"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 05:02 PM

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12. "Not with those that think effective = good"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Meaning this can only be a discussion amongst those who can separate the two, which is not the target audience for effective music. They just think it's good. And if they are the majority, are they right?
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 11:42 PM

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15. "No, they're not"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
1857 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 04:41 PM

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3. "also Beyonce (link)"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=151870&mesg_id=151870&listing_type=search#151941

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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howisya
Member since Nov 09th 2002
39983 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 04:46 PM

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4. "yeah"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

i'm glad you linked that because it does illustrate how "effective" can't always be predicted or engineered no matter how bad you want it or how much money you sink in.

Sincerely,
fucking bastard brilliant fuck

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 04:50 PM

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7. ""
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

please make that your sig.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 04:50 PM

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6. ""Agreed. Not to mention, the song is wack." <- Man, I was pissy then"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Song's still wack though. lol

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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stylez dainty
Member since Nov 22nd 2004
6737 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 04:57 PM

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8. "I think the queen is Rihanna"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

She's going to end up with as many number one hits as just about anyone, yet no one seems to be all that passionate about any of her hits. But they're so functional.

My opinion on the other questions is actually knowing what is effective is a talent, even if it's more of psychological talent than an artistic one. But the best know how to do it and still introduce new elements into the music and take risks. (Timbaland, Neptunes, Dangermouse, Outkast...). They're the ones that end up making the market cater to them, which makes the copycats come out and cater to the new market.


>* If you are an 'effected' listener (lol) do you actually like
>music?
>* Who do you think was the most musically talented but
>effective musician?
>* Is it the same as watering down?
>* Is the crux of it just not doing things that are not
>effective? If yes wouldn't that mean you can't take risks?
>* But, what's effective changes right, so who changes it?
>
>________
>Big PEMFin H & z's
>█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
>"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1
>thing, a musician." © Miles
>
>"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

----
I check for: Serengeti, Zeroh, Open Mike Eagle, Jeremiah Jae, Moka Only.

  

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howisya
Member since Nov 09th 2002
39983 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 05:01 PM

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11. ""diamonds" is lyrical and stylistic autopilot"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

but i'll be damned if it isn't catchy.

  

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Knotsorandom
Member since Jan 17th 2008
1665 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 05:00 PM

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10. "Michael Jackson"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>* Who do you think was the most musically talented but
>effective musician?

A song like "Beat It" is "effective" because it takes a popular phrase
and adds a great groove, but the groove was good enough to be popular
with being attached to a popular phrase.


>* Is it the same as watering down?

No, see the above example.

>* Is the crux of it just not doing things that are not
>effective? If yes wouldn't that mean you can't take risks?

Since we're quoting 15 and all, look at "Shake Your Body" by the
Jacksons. It took a huge risk with the drums but was still very effective.

>* But, what's effective changes right, so who changes it?

I think that's just natural that people begin to get bored with a
sound. The musician who's also getting bored with that sound or outgrowing
that sound is the one to introduce that next shit.

___________________________________
"I can break it down like whateva u want"

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 05:07 PM

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13. "I don't know..."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I think there's a difference between what you're exemplifying and 'effective artists'. Can there be a distinguishing line of artists who become effective and artists that are effective?
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Jan-03-13 11:33 PM

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14. "Incidentally what was the 'effectiveness'"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

of the last two Roots albums?
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Austin
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9418 posts
Fri Jan-04-13 12:13 AM

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16. "RE: You just trolled your own post."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


~Austin

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com
http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus
http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Fri Jan-04-13 12:16 AM

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17. "but was it 'effective'?"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          


________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Austin
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Fri Jan-04-13 12:59 AM

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20. "RE: In terms of laughs?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

Yes, very.

~Austin

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com
http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus
http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Fri Jan-04-13 12:52 AM

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18. "*dead*"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14495 posts
Fri Jan-04-13 12:57 AM

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19. "Isn't that what ?uest was saying though? That Def Jam...."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

...don't need them to be "Effective" anymore? If they see them as their Dylan.... that means just keep making critically acclaimed albums that are good and sell well enough.

In other words... make good music. We have your back.

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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thebigfunk
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Fri Jan-04-13 07:15 AM

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21. "i wonder if there's an analogue to be found "
In response to Reply # 0


          

between good/effective in music and good/effective in other forms of art (I'm thinking particularly of books here, but perhaps also movies)

In fiction, I think you have to add a third "grade," something like:
Trendy (Not good, not effective)

So you wind up having something like "serious literature," "effective (i.e. fun to read) fiction," and "trendy bestsellers"

The third category is usually pretty easy to identify by its obviously short halflife and its *immediate* spawn of bad imitations, attempts to turn the trend into a mini-industry or genre: think Fifty Shades of Grey, which, despite its popularity, was actually quite uneffective as a story (way too long, very little plot). This showed in the terrible, terrible attempts to write two immediate sequels.

The problem is that really good "effective" fiction starts to look a lot like "serious" literature. Problem to some anyway. At some point the smart readers realize they should be reading what they like anyway, regardless of whether it's Harry Potter (effective fiction) or The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet (certainly thinks of itself as serious literature, and to the extent that I'd accept the category, I'd probably agree).

Not sure what my initial point was, lol, other than to say that attempting to parse good/effective might be a bit of a fool's errand, esp. considering that both terms are always already subjective and relatively arbitrary

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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