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>If you look through history there is a cycle; >first there is a totally new sound noone has heard before. It >is creative, unique, and progressive. It is so good everyone >wants it. Then they dumb it down, make it for everyone, and >it becomes pop. All genres; jazz, folk, rock and roll, Soul, >R&B, Rock, Hip Hop, etc. Have at one point been totally >creative, and at another point dominated the "pop" sound.
Or rather, I believe we should change our lens...
I think you're basically right with the idea of a cycle, except that we really don't need to think of the popularizing of a genre as its "dumbing down" ... I think it suggests that there is some sort of genre-purity to begin with, genre police that set the rules for a sound when that's just not true. Genres are imposed frameworks, they do not possess an inherent absolute coherence. They are collections of discrete elements that, when taken together, may be identified as this or that - but those elements are never guaranteed to be always present all of the time, or to section themselves off from other elements.
The better way to look at it, I think, is that genres move from a point of density, where its various components are frequently gathered together as a defining identity, to a less tight, less coherent state, where elements are swapped and paired with new ideas and combined with other dominant sounds.
The number of bands listed in the indie folk thread (my own contribution included) suggests how folk can mean any number of things today that have very little to do with any original conception of the genre (if such a conception can be pointed to). There will always be purists that mourn that transition, but they are, as you say, clinging to relatively unrealistic standards that no longer reflect a given place and time.
>Any new music that is created after it never sounds the same, >and the good sub-genres of it deserve a new name.
I don't think they should be called "sub-genres" though. They can be, depending on how closely they sit to their "parent" sound, but why should we let the parent sound dictate the sound of those who emulate but expand or explore?
From what exposure I've had to earlier "indie" groups and labels, I really don't feel like it can be pinned to a sound - as a result, I really wouldn't consider it anything like a genre. It seems like it was more an indicator of its relative position to mainstream radio and culture, more a characterization of how the music is produced/distributed than who is doing the creation and execution. But its lack of identity made it all the easier to co-opt for profit on (or near) the majors.
-thebigfunk
~ i could still snort you under the table ~
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