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Subject: "The ever insightful Spin Magazine criticizes Lupe's "Bitch Bad"" Previous topic | Next topic
Ghetto Black
Member since Dec 24th 2004
10172 posts
Thu Aug-23-12 09:13 PM

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"The ever insightful Spin Magazine criticizes Lupe's "Bitch Bad""
Thu Aug-23-12 09:31 PM by Ghetto Black

  

          

http://www.spin.com/blogs/lupe-fiasco-mansplains-some-more-in-the-video-for-bitch-bad?utm_source=spintwitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=%20spintwitter

Why must we continually endure Lupe Fiasco's half-baked conscious hip-pop?

Last night, the music video for "Bitch Bad," Lupe Fiasco's muddled, mealy-mouthed missive about rap and misogyny was released. Directed by Gil Green — who is best known for ambitious mini-movie-like videos for DJ Khaled and friends and as such, is no stranger to the kind of objectification and thug-celebrating that Lupe's video attacks — the video stays close to Lupe's loaded, three-act storytelling rap. Before we get started, note that you won't read any reference to the music or even style of rapping here, because it is clear that Lupe is mining the moronic “lyrics over everything” attitude, reducing rap to a game of preaching to the converted.

The concept of "Bitch Bad" is how two different young people, one male, one female, can encounter mainstream, "bitch"-spewing hip-hop in quite different contexts and come to different conclusions. The first verse focuses on a young boy who listens to these rap songs with his strong-willed mother and as a result, being "a bad bitch," is something like a good thing — one more way to describe an independent woman. In verse two, a group of girls watch rap videos unsupervised, and as a result, take the lyrics and images at face value. In the third verse, the two characters meet, and the young girl is dressed like the women she saw in the rap video ("Ass, titties, breasts like that, all out to impress like that," explains Lupe), and seen as unappealing to the young man, raised by a “bad bitch” of a mother. This young girl is the wrong kind of "bad bitch." A bad "bad bitch."

The whole thing is an impressive exercise in mansplaining. Its hook goes, "Bitch bad, woman good, lady better," which sounds sweet and all, but does any female want to be called "a lady"? And although the song is a bit more complex than described above — or really, muddled — it is the umpteenth example of so-called "conscious" hip-hop replacing one type of misogyny with another. While listening to Lupe's well-intentioned grousing, I couldn't help but think of Azealia Banks, whose pointed use of "cunt" on "212" blew minds and inspired enthusiasm, and whose clothing style might not meet Lupe's approval. So much of the song's characterization seems to hinge on the clothes the female character wears (and also how sweet or "nice" she is).

The video for "Bitch Bad" adds another layer of reckless social commentary when it dramatizes footage from a fictional hip-hop video behind scenes of the kids encountering offensive hip-hop. The fake rap video that plays out behind the group of young girls seems almost exclusively aimed at 50 Cent. We see a guy in a wifebeater mean mugging as a typical "video hoe" writhes on him and his car, and signs for "Sugar Water" engulf the street scene, undoubtedly a reference to 50's involvement with Vitamin Water. Towards the end of the video, we witness the 50 stand-in and "video hoe" applying blackface, perpetuating the sounds-good-but-doesn't-really-parse argument that male gangsta rappers and female models/video girls are the modern day equivalent of blackface performers.

The idea for the blackface sequences is swiped from Spike Lee's brilliant 2000 movie Bamboozled, but that movie literally explains in the its opening moments, that it is a satire. Spike Lee was reducing ugly mainstream representations of blackness to absurdity. The conceit of the movie is that if the standards get low enough and the American public were allowed to eat it up, TV could easily turn into a genuine "coon show." Lupe and Gil Green, by suggesting a video thug or a video chick are exactly the same as someone performing in blackface, add nothing to the discussion. It sure does seem powerful though, doesn't it?

In an interview with MTV, Lupe said this about the video: "I just wanted to have a conversation. It was more to just put it out in the world and see what happens." Lazily leaning on the idea that this moronic video exists to "start a conversation," excuses Lupe and Green from putting something together that you know, coheres. And "Bitch Bad" will still get points and praise from people looking to celebrate anyone challenging the norms of mainstream hip-hop. So often, the appeal of this kind of commentary on hip-hop, whether it comes from supposedly serious rapper like Lupe Fiasco, or the many thinkpiece-writing raconteurs who spend their days on hip-hop panels that no one cares about, feeds on outdated and simplified hip-hop stereotypes. The use of a 50 Cent stand-in for the video also plays into a decade-old understanding of hip-hop as the world of endless thugging and violence, which as I've said time and time again lately, just does not represent what rap music actually looks like and sounds like in 2012.

"Bitch Bad" is, to play Lupe's game and get histrionic, how you "debase" a "culture." You twist a rap song into poorly thought-out grab for attention, and give it a muddled video, all under the guise of "starting a conversation," which implicitly suggests that rap music isn't having these conversations already. The use of the word "bitch," sensitively deconstructed by Jay-Z on "99 Problems," and currently being twisted and challenged by Azealia Banks, Nicki Minaj, and many more female MCs, proves that the discussion doesn't need a backpack rap hustler selling cynicism.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: The ever insightful Spin Magazine criticizes Lupe's "Bitch Bad"
Aug 23rd 2012
1
RE: I didn't read all that, but. . .
Aug 23rd 2012
2
lol.
Aug 24th 2012
6
ohh that dumbass Soderberg wrote it
Aug 23rd 2012
3
That dude excels at incoherence
Aug 24th 2012
4
did these dudes really devote a whole page
Aug 24th 2012
5
LMAO!!!! This dude is full of comedy.
Aug 24th 2012
7
Did this dude just did this?(c)John Starks
Aug 24th 2012
8
lol yo when he said that in the 30 for 30, I died lol
Aug 25th 2012
36
      me too lol
Aug 25th 2012
41
I didn't know we had that many Lupe riders
Aug 24th 2012
9
does the shit bang, though? (c) realityrap
Aug 24th 2012
10
he dont like the song cause he thinks girls dont like being called lady?
Aug 24th 2012
11
"...sensitively deconstructed by Jay-Z on "99 Problems,"
Aug 24th 2012
12
but does any female want to be called "a lady"?
Aug 24th 2012
13
RE: but does any female want to be called "a lady"?
Aug 24th 2012
14
i lol'd @ this:
Aug 24th 2012
15
This article is even more of a mess than that song's murky 'message'
Aug 24th 2012
16
The song's message isn't murky.
Aug 24th 2012
26
      yeah, actually it was but I agree a song's quality doesnt depend on that
Aug 25th 2012
39
      I could agree with this.
Aug 26th 2012
54
           look most subjects here ain't worth 1/40000th of the scrutiny we give it
Aug 26th 2012
56
                Literally none of these points are true.
Aug 26th 2012
70
                     sure they are but u wanna keep talkin about things that dont apply to me
Aug 27th 2012
81
                          o ok if you wanna backtrack or dodge that's cool with me
Aug 27th 2012
86
                               *dodges this bait-attempt*
Aug 27th 2012
89
      RE: The song's message isn't murky.
Aug 26th 2012
72
           No, y'all overanalzye out of intellectual insecurity
Aug 26th 2012
73
are they wrong tho?
Aug 24th 2012
17
I'm no fan of the track, but that was a poorly written article
Aug 24th 2012
18
is there a backstory on beef with 50?
Aug 24th 2012
23
i wonder too.
Aug 24th 2012
24
He and 50 have been trading subliminals for a while
Aug 27th 2012
76
I read it earlier today and it came off as really dismissive
Aug 25th 2012
34
The song is strangely misogynistic thou
Aug 24th 2012
19
I kinda think it would've been better if the boy and the girl were rever...
Aug 24th 2012
20
whomp there it is. that's why i hate lupe and this song.
Aug 24th 2012
21
now, see...
Aug 24th 2012
25
That would make waaay more sense. Lupe is a dummy.
Aug 24th 2012
29
^ding^
Aug 24th 2012
31
It makes sense either way
Aug 27th 2012
77
he tryin to fuck him but he ain't tryin to wife em
Aug 24th 2012
22
      You would think that but his lyrics don't say that.
Aug 24th 2012
28
           they're both caught in an illusion.
Aug 24th 2012
30
           pretty much.
Aug 25th 2012
35
           yeah, the lyrics don't hold up to scrutiny (at least not in a good way)
Aug 25th 2012
40
                So you're rationalizing a whiny-bitch double standard
Aug 26th 2012
71
                     nah, I actually was breaking down the song on its own merits
Aug 27th 2012
88
yeah this is a total
Aug 24th 2012
27
i still dont get
Aug 26th 2012
75
      when jabronis overinflate anything
Aug 27th 2012
84
           excellent
Aug 27th 2012
98
I like the ads for The Darkness w/ the girls in the margins
Aug 24th 2012
32
not even reading this crap
Aug 24th 2012
33
RE: not even reading this crap
Aug 25th 2012
37
It's in this post somewhere
Aug 25th 2012
38
reading those responses
Aug 25th 2012
44
I'm new to this debate.....
Aug 25th 2012
42
      yep
Aug 25th 2012
43
           nah, it's actually an intellectually dishonest morality play about
Aug 25th 2012
45
           no
Aug 25th 2012
46
                I don't begrudge anyone their opinion but I can still call bullshit
Aug 25th 2012
48
                     well you have ego issues
Aug 25th 2012
51
                          damn, u dont sound too smart & I gotta run soon so Ill try to sum it up
Aug 25th 2012
53
                               yep, you're an idiot
Aug 26th 2012
55
                               being this mad always makes 'I don't care' a tough sell:
Aug 26th 2012
60
                                    im not mad lol
Aug 26th 2012
62
                               RE: damn, u dont sound too smart & I gotta run soon so Ill try to sum it...
Aug 26th 2012
65
                                    see if it happened like you said here then it mighta worked
Aug 26th 2012
67
                                         I didn't want to reach
Aug 26th 2012
69
                                              see I think thats giving the author to much credit but if u believe it
Aug 27th 2012
83
           I see that side of the argument too.
Aug 25th 2012
47
                the song is about role models
Aug 25th 2012
49
the fuck? LEARN HOW TO HATE
Aug 25th 2012
50
best reply in the thread
Aug 27th 2012
80
What I learned from this post...
Aug 25th 2012
52
RE: What I learned from this post...
Aug 26th 2012
57
same fanatics and everything. LOL
Aug 26th 2012
58
      RE: same fanatics and everything. LOL
Aug 26th 2012
59
           all he had to do was make sense, obviously u understand that struggle
Aug 26th 2012
61
                it does make sense,
Aug 26th 2012
63
                You do know that
Aug 26th 2012
64
                     listen chief, we already discussed this ad naseum here:
Aug 26th 2012
66
                          cool
Aug 26th 2012
68
                               Lupe acheived his goal with this song...
Aug 26th 2012
74
                                    This always gets me, too
Aug 27th 2012
78
                                    MESSAGE!!!
Aug 27th 2012
79
                                    what positive message does this song have? Do tell.
Aug 27th 2012
82
                                         That you can make hipsters mad if your name is Lupe
Aug 27th 2012
85
                                         wasn't asking you, O_Dawg, thanks for weighing in tho brotha
Aug 27th 2012
90
                                              O-E says it all
Aug 27th 2012
93
                                         The positive message IMO is Lupe exposing/reminding
Aug 27th 2012
92
                                              if that's what you get out of it, cool. I will certainly agree it sparks
Aug 27th 2012
96
Nas must've handed Lu the torch for having critics pick apart...
Aug 27th 2012
87
why don't they pick apart Rick Ross or Kanye songs like this?
Aug 27th 2012
91
because that isn't going to get mass clicks...
Aug 27th 2012
94
b/c the world is out to get Lupe.
Aug 27th 2012
95
I don't know why y'all are acting brand-new about this
Aug 27th 2012
97
      nah
Aug 27th 2012
99
           man I don't care about the Pro-Lupe or Anti-Lupe Brigades, I'm talking
Aug 27th 2012
101
                You sound wild flustered responding to a simple question
Aug 27th 2012
104
                     the argument seems half-measured both ways
Aug 27th 2012
108
                          So basically, you invent a double standard out of thin air.
Aug 27th 2012
112
                               It's the same as Michael Clayton inviting more conversation than Step Up...
Aug 27th 2012
113
                                    *Horrible Analogy Police Siren*
Aug 28th 2012
121
man, lupe is getting annoying as fuck on twitter
Aug 27th 2012
100
Lupe has a twitter account?
Aug 27th 2012
103
RE: man, lupe is getting annoying as fuck on twitter
Aug 27th 2012
110
didn't Luda and Nikki already make this song?
Aug 27th 2012
102
Ebony (yes Ebony!) goes in on the Lupe crtiques (Swipe)
Aug 27th 2012
105
the outside of the culture
Aug 27th 2012
106
RE: the outside of the culture
Aug 27th 2012
107
      I feel like there's a correlation to this message board
Aug 27th 2012
109
           RE: I feel like there's a correlation to this message board
Aug 27th 2012
111
                Yah...
Aug 27th 2012
117
The plot thickens!
Aug 27th 2012
114
yall Realize hoW the OG poster edited his by-line out Quick
Aug 27th 2012
115
Also LMAO at fools still typing paragraphs on this shit
Aug 27th 2012
116
white hpstr music critic put off by 'conscious' rap?
Aug 28th 2012
118
this song is conscious rap for dumb adhd niggas
Aug 29th 2012
122
why is 'convo-starting' worse than bonafide bitch baiting lyrics?
Aug 28th 2012
119
lol@'"sensitively deconstructed by Jay-Z on "99 Problems" '
Aug 28th 2012
120
"If you havin' girl problems I feel bad for you son"
Aug 29th 2012
123
      jay-z's PR team have done an amazing job.
Aug 30th 2012
125
this post is vainglorious.
Aug 29th 2012
124
#team boombastic
Aug 30th 2012
126

Benedict the Moor
Member since Dec 06th 2011
1476 posts
Thu Aug-23-12 09:56 PM

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1. "RE: The ever insightful Spin Magazine criticizes Lupe's "Bitch Bad""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

basically the article translates to: "I don't like the bitch bad video but I'm too dumb to understand why."

◦◦◦
http://oi40.tinypic.com/2enp550.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iQBdCzZIftHZ2.gif

  

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Austin
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Thu Aug-23-12 10:33 PM

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2. "RE: I didn't read all that, but. . ."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

. . .my first reaction was:

"Nothing with the name 'Lupe Fiasco' on it has ever deserved that much thought."

~Austin

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com
http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus
http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

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ninjitsu
Member since Oct 07th 2011
4151 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 03:12 AM

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6. "lol."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Aug-23-12 11:12 PM

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3. "ohh that dumbass Soderberg wrote it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

explains everything

glad people in the comments section going in

  

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mrshow
Charter member
12567 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 01:28 AM

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4. "That dude excels at incoherence"
In response to Reply # 3


          

I have yet to read a single piece by him that didn't turn into a mishmash of poorly thought out cultural criticism and shitty jokes. He makes an interesting point about the sexism here but his jags on lyricism and Bamboozled are bizarre and out of place.

  

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Kosa12
Member since Jul 19th 2006
4988 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 02:27 AM

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5. "did these dudes really devote a whole page"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to hate on a music video?

----------
https://93millionmilesabove.blogspot.com/
https://rateyourmusic.com/~Kosa12

  

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Otis Oliver Ocean
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
1471 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 05:08 AM

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7. "LMAO!!!! This dude is full of comedy."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Duke really said the conversation don't need to be had cause Nicki Minaj
and Azealia Banks is takin care of that. This guy didn't even TRY to
make sense.

  

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Brother Rabbit
Member since Oct 31st 2007
1617 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 06:42 AM

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8. "Did this dude just did this?(c)John Starks"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______________________________

They're bureaucrats! I don't respect them.(c)Rick Sanchez

  

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illEskoBar221
Member since Oct 18th 2004
8453 posts
Sat Aug-25-12 06:49 AM

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36. "lol yo when he said that in the 30 for 30, I died lol"
In response to Reply # 8
Sat Aug-25-12 06:50 AM by illEskoBar221

  

          

.

_____________________________

<----- Genesis is deep my features are that of a God


http://illeskobar.deviantart.com/
http://thisiskyleskorner.blogspot.com/

  

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Grand_Royal
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Sat Aug-25-12 01:43 PM

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41. "me too lol "
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

  

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 07:26 AM

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9. "I didn't know we had that many Lupe riders"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

But here's what I was gonna comment on

"couldn't help but think of Azealia Banks, whose pointed use of "cunt" on "212" blew minds and inspired enthusiasm"

- accuses Lupe of swapping out 1 version misogyny w/ another version
- then the author swaps out those 2, with misdirected "girl power" version.

one
k. orr

  

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The Analyst
Member since Sep 22nd 2007
4621 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 08:29 AM

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10. "does the shit bang, though? (c) realityrap "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 08:52 AM

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11. "he dont like the song cause he thinks girls dont like being called lady?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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natlawdp
Member since Jan 27th 2005
2125 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 09:06 AM

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12. ""...sensitively deconstructed by Jay-Z on "99 Problems," "
In response to Reply # 0


          

this is the line of the article.

POEM-CEES
KOKAYI/CAESARZ
SPP WAXWORKS (DC)

THAYLOBLEU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=701fChgN9H4

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
7288 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 11:14 AM

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13. "but does any female want to be called "a lady"?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Damn.... This dude's hate for Lupe must run deep...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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Johnny
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4447 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 11:39 AM

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14. "RE: but does any female want to be called "a lady"?"
In response to Reply # 13


          

yeah that line stood out.
did he really type that, wow

  

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SoWhat
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154163 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 11:49 AM

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15. "i lol'd @ this:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Before we
>get started, note that you won't read any reference to the
>music or even style of rapping here

i knew then i was in for a fun ride w/this review. i fully expected dude to unload both double barrows on Lupe.

fuck you.

  

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Bombastic
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88874 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 11:53 AM

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16. "This article is even more of a mess than that song's murky 'message'"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

perhaps this was an ironic tribute.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 02:25 PM

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26. "The song's message isn't murky. "
In response to Reply # 16


  

          


The point of the song is to be played and listened
to.

If you enjoy it, you enjoy it.

If you don't, you don't.

  

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Bombastic
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Sat Aug-25-12 01:10 PM

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39. "yeah, actually it was but I agree a song's quality doesnt depend on that"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

from a sheer entertainment-value song perspective to my ears, it was somewhere around 'ok', not one of his better cuts.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Aug-26-12 05:36 AM

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54. "I could agree with this. "
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

>from a sheer entertainment-value song perspective to my ears,
>it was somewhere around 'ok', not one of his better cuts.

But it doesn't deserve 1/400,000th of the analysis or
hate its receiving

He's not trying to balance the national debt with
the song

He's rapping

I honestly don't get how/why Lupe gets people so mad

Its sort of weird


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Bombastic
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Sun Aug-26-12 06:18 AM

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56. "look most subjects here ain't worth 1/40000th of the scrutiny we give it"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

but we gotta be over that by now.

If I'm Lupe I'm taking it as a compliment of sorts that folks are analyzing my words positively or negatively, that's a win, nobody's trying to break down SmokeDZA's bars.

Not to mention if this song really knocked & he was rapping his ass off, then it wouldn't matter.

But he's the one who sat us down, spoke-rap to us while pointing us in the direction of his own insight/cleverness like he was teaching a class but in the end kinda showed his ass.

*shrug*

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Aug-26-12 11:11 AM

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70. "Literally none of these points are true. "
In response to Reply # 56
Sun Aug-26-12 11:32 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>If I'm Lupe I'm taking it as a compliment of sorts that folks
>are analyzing my words positively or negatively, that's a win,
>nobody's trying to break down SmokeDZA's bars.

Its not a compliment when the criticism creates a
monster that leads to hipsters writing hyper critical
articles on you in leading magazines. That's haters hating
you for no reason and its potentially costly to your
career. It may not be destructive but its certainly not
good and definitely not a compliment.


>Not to mention if this song really knocked & he was rapping
>his ass off, then it wouldn't matter.

That's false, because you guys whine about his good
songs too. When he completely demolished the 'Diamonds
are Forever' beat, people whined and nitpicked that.
Hell, people whined about the 'Kick, Push' metaphor.

Literally there is no rapper who attracts whiny bitch
critics like Lupe Fiasco.


>But he's the one who sat us down, spoke-rap to us while
>pointing us in the direction of his own insight/cleverness
>like he was teaching a class but in the end kinda showed his
>ass.

Or he made a rap song. Some of us listened to it and
enjoyed it. Others did not.

If we're not going to put the last Rozay mixtape under
Social Theory 500B scrutiny, there is no reason to do
so for Lupe. Both of them are rappers.

Anything else is a double standard perpetuated by
whiny little bitches, hipsters and Lessonheads.

  

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Bombastic
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81. "sure they are but u wanna keep talkin about things that dont apply to me"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

and I'm kind of talked out on the actual subject of this post at this point so whatever's clever.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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86. "o ok if you wanna backtrack or dodge that's cool with me"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          


Understandable

You're a decent guy so you've earned the
right to dodge some shit every once in a
while




----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Bombastic
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89. "*dodges this bait-attempt*"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

.

  

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gordon_sims
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72. "RE: The song's message isn't murky. "
In response to Reply # 26


          

But do you think his intent with the song is that simple? Or should his intent even matter in our analysis? It seems like he wants us to do more than just bump the song and because of that he opens himself up for a lot of hate/critique.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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73. "No, y'all overanalzye out of intellectual insecurity"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

>But do you think his intent with the song is that simple? Or
>should his intent even matter in our analysis? It seems like
>he wants us to do more than just bump the song and because of
>that he opens himself up for a lot of hate/critique.

He made a song.

Listen to it.

If you want to connect with the message, fine.

If you don't, fine.

Either way, just listen to the fucking song.

I enjoy Biz Markie's 'You Got What I Need'

Its a dumbass song about a sensitive
friend zone ass nigga. Few things annoy
me then sensitive pussy ass niggas who
cupcake stupid hoes

Thing is, I enjoy the song. Doesn't matter
how I feel about the message.

You guy could choose to do that with Lupe.

You choose not to, because it makes YOU feel
smart to nitpick.

I don't do that because I listen to the music.



  

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al_sharp
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17. "are they wrong tho?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


http://theyesyesyalls.com
http://facebook.com/theyesyesyalls
http://reverbnation.com/theyesyesyalls
http://shamelessplug.bandcamp.com
http://twitter.com/shamelessplug

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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18. "I'm no fan of the track, but that was a poorly written article"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Fri Aug-24-12 02:15 PM

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23. "is there a backstory on beef with 50?"
In response to Reply # 18
Fri Aug-24-12 02:15 PM by bentagain

  

          

kind of strange to choose him as a reference

when he's not even that much of a presence in the game anymore

seems like there could have been more obvious choices

and the preaching to the converted line

kind of rang true




---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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SoWhat
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24. "i wonder too."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

fuck you.

  

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csuave03
Member since May 20th 2007
3067 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 01:38 AM

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76. "He and 50 have been trading subliminals for a while"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

The end of Lupe's 'The Die', and 50 dissed him on '50's my favorite'

there are some more as well

  

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soulsupreme
Member since Dec 14th 2004
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34. "I read it earlier today and it came off as really dismissive"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Also this part part made me SMH? "but does any female want to be called "a lady"?"


______________________________________________________________
http://twitter.com/Gedi

"This is your world. Shape it or someone else will." - Gary Lew

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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19. "The song is strangely misogynistic thou"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's just strange that the first two verses set up the misunderstanding that young boys and young girls receive from black music but then the third verse squarely lays the blame on the female. Very odd considering the interaction doesn't even really reflect real life (are dudes not trying to fcuk sexily dressed women where you from?)

BTW, Lupe either needs to go into hibernation until the dreads grow in or get a haircut.


**********
"naive as the dry leaves on the ground looking past the trees to the blue sky asking 'why me?'" -Blu

  

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Hitokiri
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20. "I kinda think it would've been better if the boy and the girl were rever..."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

The girl learning what a "bad bitch" was from her mother singing along, while being a smart, successful woman.

The boy learning what a "bad bitch" was from music videos of scantily clad heauxes

then the 3rd act playing out accordingly.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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PROMO
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21. "whomp there it is. that's why i hate lupe and this song."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

dude is smart-dumb.

  

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SoWhat
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25. "now, see..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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29. "That would make waaay more sense. Lupe is a dummy."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          


**********
"naive as the dry leaves on the ground looking past the trees to the blue sky asking 'why me?'" -Blu

  

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Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19953 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 04:41 PM

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31. "^ding^"
In response to Reply # 20


          

>The girl learning what a "bad bitch" was from her mother
>singing along, while being a smart, successful woman.
>
>The boy learning what a "bad bitch" was from music videos of
>scantily clad heauxes
>
>then the 3rd act playing out accordingly.


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

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csuave03
Member since May 20th 2007
3067 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 01:43 AM

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77. "It makes sense either way"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

making the way he did it makes it more controversial, it wouldn't have been a big deal if it was reversed imo

  

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Menphyel7
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22. "he tryin to fuck him but he ain't tryin to wife em"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

and black boys who rasied by they single mothers are shockingly not wifing black girls but making them single mothers again cause they don't live up to the standard to they mother...who probably didn't live up to the standard of they daddy's momma.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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28. "You would think that but his lyrics don't say that."
In response to Reply # 22
Fri Aug-24-12 03:10 PM by Buddy_Gilapagos

  

          

In his lyrics he clearly say "He don't want to fuck her". Then it has the boy lecturing the girl because she is caught in a "fantasy" while he is in "reality".

It makes no sense to dump all the blame on the girl like he does in the last verse.

See nonsensical woman scapegoating lyrics below:


The little boy meets one of those little girls
And he thinks she a bad bitch and she thinks she a bad bitch
He thinks disrespectfully, she thinks of that sexually
She got the wrong idea, he don’t wanna fuck her
He thinks she’s bad at being a bitch like his mother
Momma never dress like that, come out the house, hot mess like that
Ass, titties, dress like that
All out to impress like that
Just like that, you see the fruit of the confusion
He caught in a reality, she caught in an illusion




**********
"naive as the dry leaves on the ground looking past the trees to the blue sky asking 'why me?'" -Blu

  

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SoWhat
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30. "they're both caught in an illusion."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

poor Lupe. he don't get it. LOL

fuck you.

  

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mwasi kitoko
Member since Jul 15th 2007
60768 posts
Sat Aug-25-12 05:55 AM

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35. "pretty much."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

www.royallegacy.org
http://therapfest.com/up-next-artists/

  

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Bombastic
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40. "yeah, the lyrics don't hold up to scrutiny (at least not in a good way)"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I figured that out when I tried to get anyone here to explain that to me in the OG 'Bitch Bad' post: http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2713548&mesg_id=2713548&listing_type=search#2713588

Shit was a nice set-up, a creative song but with a paternalistic-bordering-on-misogynistic moral & a final scene that played out like a bad Spike Lee ending.

Now none of this would matter if the song was banging or evoked emotion from a beats/rhyme/hook perspective but since he's almost talk-rapping a story that he seemingly wants us to concentrate on over a sparse musical backdrop, it encourages you to actually follow the narrative which eventually falls apart.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sun Aug-26-12 11:42 AM

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71. "So you're rationalizing a whiny-bitch double standard"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          


>but since
>he's almost talk-rapping a story that he seemingly wants us to
>concentrate on over a sparse musical backdrop, it encourages
>you to actually follow the narrative which eventually falls
>apart.

So its okay for y'all to be whiny bitches because....he
asked you to be?

LOL. That's cute.

He made a rap song.

Listen to it.

If you like the way it sounds, cool.

If you don't cool.

Half of your favorite rap songs don't add up to any
scrutiny at all, in terms of making sense

You like them because you like them

So let's chill on the double standards


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Bombastic
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88. "nah, I actually was breaking down the song on its own merits"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

and since you have nothing to refute that, you've created an end-around to whine about my take on it without addressing it.

That's cute but I don't care to play. Go find some of the lower-hanging fruit for those games.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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27. "yeah this is a total"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.ieee-robio.org/2011/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/SICE_logo.png

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sun Aug-26-12 10:02 PM

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75. "i still dont get"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

sice / cysage

  

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Dr Claw
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84. "when jabronis overinflate anything"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

negatively or positively

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Mon Aug-27-12 03:21 PM

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98. "excellent"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

new slang into my nerd brain

  

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Virgenes Corazon
Member since Jan 03rd 2007
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32. "I like the ads for The Darkness w/ the girls in the margins"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

covered in maple syrup. That's like another punchline to this whole deal. I'm pretty well indifferent to Lupe but that article read like a first draft crapped out in a morning fog.

Avatar: Chikara Pro Wrestling. Born From Oblivion.

New Technology Vs. Horse album, "Sorry That I Knocked You Up" http://technologyvshorse.bandcamp.com/album/sorry-that-i-knocked-you-up

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
2950 posts
Fri Aug-24-12 09:00 PM

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33. "not even reading this crap"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

just came to say it's funny how simple this song really is but people reinterpret it so many ways.

So people are saying it's misogynistic because a female character is presented as a bad role model, and because other females in the song are following this model? That's misogynist?

is there something I'm missing on this side of argument?

I really don't see the misogyny in a song where a man is trying to ( even if you disagree with his method lol ) speak out on viewing women in a negative way.

somebody break it down for me please

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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rtoriq
Member since Aug 28th 2005
405 posts
Sat Aug-25-12 09:08 AM

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37. "RE: not even reading this crap"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

EXACTLY. Ugghhhhh this writer and everyone else that agrees with him needs to have a nice thick cut of STFU. He CLEARLY has an agenda and/or personal beef with Lupe that he aint saying.

i'm a woman and YES i love being called a lady. And like another user said, this idiot is basically saying chicks like Azealia are holding femininity down they don't need you Lupe....and why do they need YOU? STFU!

Then the idiot says it's like Bamboozled but at least Bamboozled had a warning in the beginning. HOW HARD IS THE VIDEO TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR BASIC ASS NEEDS A COMMENTARY IN THE BEGINNING?! And sugar water....to relate to 50's vitamin water is a stretch, and i'll go out on a limb and say he wants to perpetuate beef with another hip-hop artist that how much he can't stand Lupe. And NO there is nothing wrong with creating a video to create dialogue, much like this idiot is writing some bullshyt-blogger's piece on the video to create controversy. Ain't no take-away point that i see.

This idiot writer doesn't speak for me as a woman and no i don't treat see him as thought-provoking feminist. Seeing how he wrote about Barack Obama, this idiot is probably just in the mindset like everyone else of "i just can't stand Lupe" - without providing any reason aside from "aw he came at my president" - or because he said he doesn't vote, or because of the whole Tribe issue. I HATE when writers have an obvious bias and agenda and don't be open about that mess.

Love him or hate him, the video is fine. F*ck that idiot blogger i mean writer. If you complain that the video puts too much emphasis on women well DUH that's the whole subject of the song. i'm seriously NOT going to ride for you feminist-extremists who wanna say "well he don't have to give me permission to dress and act like i want" mindset. BITCH (yes i said BITCH), it's a message that's being shared; take it or leave it! IT AINT THAT HARD UGGHHHH. That idiot HAS to just not like Lupe period, caz that was a stupid, clearly-not-thought-out article.

------------------
reflect.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sat Aug-25-12 11:55 AM

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38. "It's in this post somewhere"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=11492904&mesg_id=11492904&page=2#11493556

post #45 might explain it best



---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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Sat Aug-25-12 06:41 PM

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44. "reading those responses"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

that person pretty much said the same thing everybody else who has problem with it says, it's about his right to his opinion and whatever specific reasons why they have a problem with it.

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Sat Aug-25-12 01:52 PM

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42. "I'm new to this debate....."
In response to Reply # 33


          

I just read the lyrics.

I think the philosophical flaw that some are pointing out is a recurring issue for feminist idealogy....

Lupe is attempting to advocate self-determination for women....but at the same time.....prescribes what characterizes a 'self-determined' women to be. So he's still prescribing how a woman should behave which contradicts his stance that they be self-determining.

So, as a male, he's really only substituting one set of expectations placed upon women for another.

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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Sat Aug-25-12 06:19 PM

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43. "yep"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

I guess I'm a chauvinist then because that's just idiotic to me, it's pretty much saying a man has no right to have an opinion on how women act no matter what he views as positive.

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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Bombastic
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45. "nah, it's actually an intellectually dishonest morality play about"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

fast-ass girls that despite their rap-video-informed hyper-sexualized advances, teenage boys refuse to fuck because they respect their mothers.

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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46. "no"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

I was referring to people's criticism of the song, namely feminist, not the song itself.

"intellectually dishonest", yall motherfuckers are crazy. I got caught up in the ignorance and forgot that this song is essentially his opinion, which I see now people are trying to treat like a fact that can be proven wrong.

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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Bombastic
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48. "I don't begrudge anyone their opinion but I can still call bullshit"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

when I see an obvious flaw in the logic of the presentation.

Like I said, I give him an 'E' for effort and/or an 'eh' for actual songcraft but if this is supposed to be a 'thinker' type of cut with a curious/suspect conclusion then I'mma point that shit out and wait for someone to tell me why I'm wrong with something more persuasive than 'well, that's like, your opinion man' Dude-levels of discourse.

If you wanna actually check me on the content of my issues with this house-of-cards rhyme, then by all means go ahead & make use of your allotted time.

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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Sat Aug-25-12 09:43 PM

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51. "well you have ego issues"
In response to Reply # 48
Sat Aug-25-12 09:46 PM by beatnik

  

          

so go ahead and run off at the mouth.

and i'm not familiar with any opinion you have on this song, who are you?

I don't care if you don't like the song, I'd prefer to argue about the actual song and not the BS people are bringing from the side.

I'm talking about the reasons people are calling it misogynist. Those reasons are bullshit to me because they totally bypass the message he's putting out in this song.

intellectually dishonest, how? He's telling a story and he chose to use certain plot points for cause and effect to get to his message. You want to argue the logic of the song.

Based on what? What logic is he defying? The song is pretty straightforward.

also, this would be the second time you misread what I typed. I didn't say it was your opinion idiot, I said it was his.

Disclaimer: this rhymer, Lupe, is not usin' "bitch" as a lesson
But as a psychological weapon
To set in your mind and really mess with your conceptions
Discretions, reflections, it's clever misdirection



PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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Bombastic
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53. "damn, u dont sound too smart & I gotta run soon so Ill try to sum it up"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

>so go ahead and run off at the mouth.
>
>and i'm not familiar with any opinion you have on this song,
>who are you?
>
>I don't care if you don't like the song, I'd prefer to argue
>about the actual song and not the BS people are bringing from
>the side.
>
>I'm talking about the reasons people are calling it
>misogynist. Those reasons are bullshit to me because they
>totally bypass the message he's putting out in this song.
>
who I am ain't really the an issue but apparently my message has bypassed your brain but to put it succinctly: the message is a murky mess, mang.

I don't need to retype it all here because I actually tried to give you a one-line Cliff Note in my first reply to you above & other folks (think buddy specifically) summed it up fairly well but if you want a more detailed examination you can check here: http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2713548&mesg_id=2713548&listing_type=search#2713588

He gets points for originality/creativity/ambition but if he wanted it to stick he should have either made a banger too dope for people to care about any 'message' or made something that didn't sound like some smart-dumb shit with that ending.

>intellectually dishonest, how? He's telling a story and he
>chose to use certain plot points for cause and effect to get
>to his message. You want to argue the logic of the song.
>
>Based on what? What logic is he defying? The song is pretty
>straightforward.
>
>also, this would be the second time you misread what I typed.
>I didn't say it was your opinion idiot, I said it was his.
>
Am I an idiot or did I just quote a movie I guess you didn't see?

Even if that got passed you that's fine, the 'message' in what I typed there was not dependent on whether it was 'his' or 'my' opinion.

>Disclaimer: this rhymer, Lupe, is not usin' "bitch" as a
>lesson
>But as a psychological weapon
>To set in your mind and really mess with your conceptions
>Discretions, reflections, it's clever misdirection
>
*guffaws*

although I do enjoy laughing the irony of that last line you typed, I really do wish this cut was as clever as he or some of y'all seem to think it is.

But I'm stuck here in reality while you caught in an illusion.

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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55. "yep, you're an idiot"
In response to Reply # 53
Sun Aug-26-12 06:10 AM by beatnik

  

          

>He gets points for originality/creativity/ambition but if he
>wanted it to stick he should have either made a banger too
>dope for people to care about any 'message' or made something
>that didn't sound like some smart-dumb shit with that ending.
>

This is why I won't waste time with your bullshit opinion.

Get off whatever you on and go die in a car wreck.

You're not important dude, nigga really think I'm about to put that much stock in your worthless opinion, I need some coffee and cigarettes now lol

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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Bombastic
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60. "being this mad always makes 'I don't care' a tough sell:"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>>He gets points for originality/creativity/ambition but if
>he
>>wanted it to stick he should have either made a banger too
>>dope for people to care about any 'message' or made
>something
>>that didn't sound like some smart-dumb shit with that
>ending.
>>
>
>This is why I won't waste time with your bullshit opinion.
>
>Get off whatever you on and go die in a car wreck.
>
>You're not important dude, nigga really think I'm about to put
>that much stock in your worthless opinion, I need some coffee
>and cigarettes now lol

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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62. "im not mad lol"
In response to Reply # 60
Sun Aug-26-12 08:24 AM by beatnik

  

          

im talking trash, this is a message board, thats what we do.

go back and forth, argue a little, say some smart ass shit, then get back on topic and keep arguing.

but if your little cliff note is your total view of the song then there's no reason for me to delve deeper into your opinion, because that's not the way I see the song. The nigga twisted shit around to make his point, what's not to understand, which oddly enough is what you're doing too.

¯\_()_/¯

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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rtoriq
Member since Aug 28th 2005
405 posts
Sun Aug-26-12 09:14 AM

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65. "RE: damn, u dont sound too smart & I gotta run soon so Ill try to sum it..."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

>although I do enjoy laughing the irony of that last line you
>typed, I really do wish this cut was as clever as he or some
>of y'all seem to think it is.



i won't speak for beatnik, but my response is it's NOT as clever indeed; it's pretty simple and straight-forward in what it's trying to address, even if it isn't mind-blowing. So what in the hell was that writer blabbin about "murkiness" etc.? You all here have more coherent points to consider (particularly, equal blame, BOTH being caught up in the illusion - which is the truth) than that dude did. And another critique i would add is it woulda been nice if Lupe could insert the scenarios of

(i) the mama who DID have her ass and tits out like that, since from what i notice, some men usually prefer a woman more covered because of the "embarrassment" and discomfort they faced with their mother/womenfolk of the family dressing like that when they were growing up. Or

(ii) the young woman who DID dress less provocative but the man who looked right past or dumped her for the "bad b!tch" (who can "take yo man" (C) - any bad b!tch on Maury).

Other scenarios too, which i think was what was meant by Lupe wanting discussion.

But this writer didn't even really address the song's content that much as opposed to how the verses were conveyed on the video. And focused more on why he's mad Blackface was used for hip-hop.

------------------
reflect.

  

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Bombastic
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67. "see if it happened like you said here then it mighta worked"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

>(particularly, equal blame, BOTH being caught up in the
>illusion - which is the truth)

I haven't seen the video nor do I think there was anything of substance in the article above.

But rather than speculate I'm just going off what was given, where at the end an adolescent boy doesn't have any interest in sexual advances from a willing girl & that she's the issue because while he's dealing with 'reality' she's 'caught up in illusion'.

And an illusion created by indoctrination to video hoes & male-generated music because sthe poor girl can't process anything but what she sees onscreen.

The end result makes for a fairly condescending crock of shit that I've already spent too long discussing.

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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69. "I didn't want to reach"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

but can it not be argued that even what the boy in the song perceives as reality is also an illusion, simply because it's his reality of what he experienced, and what influenced the girl is in fact fake and manufactured for image, some shit she saw on tv. It's reality for the boy because it actually happened before his eyes, but that doesn't make it right, which in turn makes it an illusion.

The words "illusion" and "reality" are just used to show the conflict in beliefs between the two characters.

I get the whole "women are too stupid to think for themselves" argument, but the problem with arguing that side is there are people out there who do dumb shit and show no capacity whatsoever to be able to think and take control of their situation.

The boy and girl had equally bad influences, but he doesn't elaborate on the girls innocence so it's misogynist.

To me all yall are saying is it didn't stick to what your views of misogyny and misandry are so there's no way it can make sense.

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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Bombastic
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83. "see I think thats giving the author to much credit but if u believe it"
In response to Reply # 69
Mon Aug-27-12 12:11 PM by Bombastic

  

          

>but can it not be argued that even what the boy in the song
>perceives as reality is also an illusion, simply because it's
>his reality of what he experienced, and what influenced the
>girl is in fact fake and manufactured for image, some shit she
>saw on tv. It's reality for the boy because it actually
>happened before his eyes, but that doesn't make it right,
>which in turn makes it an illusion.
>
>The words "illusion" and "reality" are just used to show the
>conflict in beliefs between the two characters.
>
then I'm not inclined to argue with you because I suppose it could be, I'd just say I highly doubt it while agreeing to disagree.

To me Lupe/the-narrator sounds exactly like the type a cat to tell a woman what she needs or should be doing in this song under the guise of kicking knowledge.

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Sat Aug-25-12 09:01 PM

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47. "I see that side of the argument too."
In response to Reply # 43


          

But I think the short answer is yes.....a man who places judgement on a woman for dressing sexually provocative is sexist. Woman should define themselves without men prescribing what is right and wrong for them.

This same issue arises in racial issues too. For example, liberal white people are often guilty of this.....having a view such as 'black people should learn their history and incorporate it into their lives'. They THINK they're being 'racially progressive'....but one could also argue they're simply continuing a tradition of telling black people what to do and how to behave.

And the same problem that you pointed out arises too. Does that mean white people can't have an opinion on what's positive for black people?

Again, I think the short answer is yes.

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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49. "the song is about role models"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

and I'm starting to see this little back and forth blame game people want to play.

it's not the womans fault if a man views her in a certain way, but because of his views the way she appears to him will be the cause of however he acts towards her. That doesn't place blame on the women but that seems to be the only way people can prove this point, saying the man blames the woman and it's her fault is idiotic, her appearance is just a cause, it's not grounds to place blame. Women in skirts, sweatpants, and business suits all get attacked, but people are trying to say this is all image.

there are too many specific things that can be drawn up to make either point.

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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quatto
Member since Jul 02nd 2010
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Sat Aug-25-12 09:37 PM

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50. "the fuck? LEARN HOW TO HATE"
In response to Reply # 0


          

talk about a non pleasing form of journalism. piss off the lupe dickriders who feel the song, and then analyze some boring pretentious bullshit, and alienate those who just aint feelin the track cause it doesnt accomplish anything and aint even worth analyzing.

Tryin to get deep about some shit that you hate when you aint even well learned on the subject and refuse to analyze the musical aspect of a song? LEARN HOW TO HATE PROPERLY!

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Mon Aug-27-12 09:18 AM

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80. "best reply in the thread"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

>talk about a non pleasing form of journalism. piss off the
>lupe dickriders who feel the song, and then analyze some
>boring pretentious bullshit, and alienate those who just aint
>feelin the track cause it doesnt accomplish anything and aint
>even worth analyzing.

  

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Anonymous
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52. "What I learned from this post..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Lupe is the new Nas.

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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57. "RE: What I learned from this post..."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

is that people are simple minded as fuck, and if the little boy would have been watching the videos, and the girl was in the car with her mom, it would be easier to understand because that's already the way it happens.

Make the male a cliche chauvinist objectifying women, and voila, better song because your dumbass can't think outside the box.

or just make a banger so people don't notice a message even it was written to suit your opinion as one idiot suggested. . . smh.

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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SoWhat
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58. "same fanatics and everything. LOL"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

well, not as many.

but their defense of the smart-dumbness is about the same.

fuck you.

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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Sun Aug-26-12 07:46 AM

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59. "RE: same fanatics and everything. LOL"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

thats what i don't get, he tried to simplify it so people say it's smart-dumb, pseudo-intellectual, but he if went the super cryptic metaphorical route what then?

I think it's a simple ass song and people are just reading into it to talk shit for all manner of reasons.

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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Bombastic
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61. "all he had to do was make sense, obviously u understand that struggle"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

keep on fightin' the good fight, player, you'll get there.

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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63. "it does make sense, "
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

that's the problem, I'm not with the group saying it's some super lyrical shit, that shit is simple as it gets. How does anybody hear that song and totally miss this nigga holding your hand the whole way through telling a simple a story? It's not complex, at all.

so basically he HAD to say something that fits with your point of view for the song to work? If it was more cliche or traditional you'd understand it better?

¯\_(Ӡ _/¯

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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Anonymous
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Sun Aug-26-12 08:43 AM

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64. "You do know that"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

Just because something doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't make sense right.

Dude is right above saying you have an ego problem.

And your one-liner style of posting is only a mask for you not really being able to explain your opinion.

You speak in broad talking points with no substance. "the song is smart-dumb shit"

Ok...now explain how beyond saying "I gave you my one-liner" and then posting a link to other peoples opinions.

You stay trying to be a smart ass by just posting your one-liners and making blanket statements.

  

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Bombastic
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66. "listen chief, we already discussed this ad naseum here:"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2713548&mesg_id=2713548&listing_type=search#2713588

I don't know how much more 'articulation' on the subject you need.

If y'all have something to add about the actual subject/message/content/whatever instead of being mad & focused on me, then do it.

Maybe you actually have thoughts on what message dude is trying to convey or why what he's trying to say works in your mind.

Otherwise, one line was already too much time.

  

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beatnik
Member since Oct 24th 2004
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68. "cool"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

you seem to think the idea of a young man rejecting a woman because she looks like a ho is absurd, but the whole point of the song is that they all have different views on what the word bitch means.

that's it, you just don't agree with the way the song is written. He twisted it around to make his point, which is different from the norm, but it works within this song because he's telling a specific story where the characters develop in a certain way. He's a fucking muslim what yall expect? lmao

PEACE LOVE and MONEY

https://soundcloud.com/dabeatnik/drumpf-beer

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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74. "Lupe acheived his goal with this song..."
In response to Reply # 68


          

I'm having a hard time understanding the whole... smart-dumb, he missed me because he didn't flip the roles bullshit .

Unfortunately some people take preachy rap personally and take offense to songs with a positive message.

The haters know damn well these videos have Kidd all fucked up. Bashing Lupe for having the balls to make a some and video like this doesn't make you look intelligent at all. You can hate the flow, the beat, etc... but hating on the message puts you on the smart-dumb nigga bus.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Mon Aug-27-12 06:34 AM

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78. "This always gets me, too"
In response to Reply # 74


          

>Unfortunately some people take preachy rap personally and take
>offense to songs with a positive message.

You get less points for making thoughtful shit in hip-hop with some folks

  

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Otis Oliver Ocean
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
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79. "MESSAGE!!!"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

>Bashing Lupe for having the balls to make a some and video
>like this doesn't make you look intelligent at all. You can
>hate the flow, the beat, etc... but hating on the message puts
>you on the smart-dumb nigga bus.

  

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Bombastic
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82. "what positive message does this song have? Do tell."
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

>I'm having a hard time understanding the whole... smart-dumb,
>he missed me because he didn't flip the roles bullshit .
>
>Unfortunately some people take preachy rap personally and take
>offense to songs with a positive message.
>
>The haters know damn well these videos have Kidd all fucked
>up. Bashing Lupe for having the balls to make a some and video
>like this doesn't make you look intelligent at all. You can
>hate the flow, the beat, etc... but hating on the message puts
>you on the smart-dumb nigga bus.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 12:19 PM

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85. "That you can make hipsters mad if your name is Lupe"
In response to Reply # 82
Mon Aug-27-12 12:20 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          



Easily the most uplifting song of the year for
that reason alone



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Bombastic
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90. "wasn't asking you, O_Dawg, thanks for weighing in tho brotha"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

.

  

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mrshow
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93. "O-E says it all"
In response to Reply # 90


          

The value of a rap song is now whether or not it manages to piss off an imaginary group of people.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Mon Aug-27-12 01:59 PM

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92. "The positive message IMO is Lupe exposing/reminding "
In response to Reply # 82


          

these kids that these images and songs aren't reality.

When I was growing up my mom played Stevie, EWF and the OJays... my dad listened to Jimi, Iron Butterfly (he is an artist), Janis Joplin, Al Green.

Nowadays parents rap about being bad bitches, fucking, real nigga shit, selling dope, etc...

which makes for some confusing conversations and exchanges when they are real niggas and bad bitches but they are easily offended by these words if said in the wrong way.

I's a song with a message that sparks discussions... and in this day and age that's positive IMO.

  

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Bombastic
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96. "if that's what you get out of it, cool. I will certainly agree it sparks"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

discussion as proven by this & the previous post, even if people don't seem to like to address the narrative directly.

  

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TheRealBillyOcean
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87. "Nas must've handed Lu the torch for having critics pick apart..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

every word he says.

Good for him.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

  

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Menphyel7
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Mon Aug-27-12 01:57 PM

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91. "why don't they pick apart Rick Ross or Kanye songs like this?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

if it was some ballin or party shit it shouldn't be analyzed or broken down.

If folks needed alot of every rapper what they want out of lupe maybe will have better songs at the top.

yall mad casue he didn't convey the message in the way you think he should...its his song muthafucka.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79607 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 02:04 PM

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94. "because that isn't going to get mass clicks..."
In response to Reply # 91


          

The author is doing a Skip Bayless...

Lupe Fans go hard and he knew this would get clicks.

What woman wants to be called a Lady? LOL... now that's over the top.

  

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SoWhat
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Mon Aug-27-12 02:13 PM

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95. "b/c the world is out to get Lupe."
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Aug-27-12 02:26 PM

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97. "I don't know why y'all are acting brand-new about this"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

Can't Tell Me Nothing or Maybach Music aren't asking to be analyzed or discussed in that fashion.

To use a Lupe example, neither is I'm Beaming.

Those are just three dope songs & never aimed at anything else.

This one is practically begging for it from the beginning by addressing an issue & making that along with this 'story' with it's character/archetypes along with its conclusion.

Not to mention it's practically spoken-word rap over a sparse beat so you can put the lyrics at the forefront while the narrator is pointing out its own cleverness.

But now we're the assholes or 'haters' for actually evaluating it on that level because most people have nothing to say about its somewhat suspect conclusion?

Nah, sorry.

Don't work that way.

If you wanna act like a big-boy with a message, you can handle the message getting boiled-down & interpreted.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 03:31 PM

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99. "nah"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

it really is Lupe that is causing this, because he makes people very insecure with about their belief systems and they think he's an easy target, which he isn't. Soderberg, as usual, made himself sound like a fucn clown ass idiot trying to inaccurately contextualize and discredit this song's message. YOU keep trying to defend the right of people to analyze THIS song, which they should be able to, but they should also analyze the "club bangers" if they want to come off anywhere near the thoughtful intellectuals they clearly are not.

this piece and most of the convo in here is half-assed

  

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Bombastic
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Mon Aug-27-12 04:19 PM

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101. "man I don't care about the Pro-Lupe or Anti-Lupe Brigades, I'm talking"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

about *this* song.

And no it is not a parallel comparison between this & a club banger.

When a song makes a concerted effort to deliver a message, then it's a reasonable expectaion that a listener with at least half a brain might try to decipher it.

This song is not capable of working in a 'club banger' context so it gets broken down on its merits elsewhere.

Pretending that shouldn't be the case & pointing to Rick Ross is basically a lazy intellectual-justification/diversion-argument harkening back to the 'they do it too' plea we gave our parents as children.

I'll skip reacting to your commentary on this particular article which I've already forgotten or this writer who I don't recognize by name, since you could very well be right but I don't know or want to know enough to care.

Spin is basically the rock-mag Source at this point, it's a living corpse that's long outlasted its credibility & usefullness which is a shame.

They still send me copies even though I long ago stopped paying for it & it looks like this huge thing that's bigger than 'Interview' on cheap colored-construction paper with ads/photos/banners filling up 89% of it.

Sucks since 'Spin' in the late 80s was easily the most vital mainstream US mag going as we reminisced a few months back pointing specifically to this issue from '86 http://books.google.com/books?id=DFgfrF29bfgC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false which manages to review Run-DMC's new 'My Adidas/Peter Piper' single with initial efforts by the Beasties/Steady B alongside Madonna/Sonic Youth/Laurie Anderson, a very rare Prince interview feature, an expose on Live-Aid Funds being misappropriated that eventually became an international incident, a story on Fela Kuti's release from prison and a Lou Reed profile.

You couldn't find collective content like that with Time, Rolling Stone & Word Up! combined in 1986 let alone under one magazine masthead.

The last two issues of Spin I've received (I can't even tell if it's still a monthly) were completely devoid of anything worth caring about even as bathroom-reading material & now it's too big/cheap-looking to even want to keep in the reading rack there.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 04:52 PM

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104. "You sound wild flustered responding to a simple question"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          


Why y'all don't break down Rozay or Kanye this way?

Why?

Because y'all make up double standards

For no real reason, of course

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Aug-27-12 05:46 PM

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108. "the argument seems half-measured both ways"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

any song can be broken down to its minute parts if someone wants to do it, there's no shame in that. Everything that's written or spoken is a perspective shared, and that perspective is open for deconstruction.

but there are certain ways to go about sharing perspectives that open themselves to criticism easier than others, and this Lupe song certainly sounds like (I'm assuming it's on the album so I haven't listened to it 'til then) that sort of song.

It's probably not fair to Lupe that this song gets the message board treatment while something like Ross' "abuse lil' niggas like Penn State" or "Coulda sent a hundred grand but that's a decent watch, nigga" line about Haiti (that (admittedly pretty fun) song also has the line "She had a miscarriage, I couldn't cry, though / Cause you and I know she was only my side ho")

Does Lupe deserve to be the only one analyzed line by line or intent vs. perception? No. But he does make himself more open to that via his persona and the way he presents his music.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Aug-27-12 07:21 PM

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112. "So basically, you invent a double standard out of thin air. "
In response to Reply # 108


  

          


>Does Lupe deserve to be the only one analyzed line by line or
>intent vs. perception? No. But he does make himself more open
>to that via his persona and the way he presents his music.

And Lupe deserves it because he doesn't have punchlines
about Penn State rapists.

I get it.

Not a strawman. You just said that.

I just needed you to say it, because now I know I'm
talking to a bunch of insecure idiots.

Because no intelligent person would invent a reason
why Lupe deserves/asks for/warrants cross examination
more than Rozay.

That's intellectually dishonest and if you engage in it,
you should be ashamed of yourself.

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Aug-27-12 09:04 PM

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113. "It's the same as Michael Clayton inviting more conversation than Step Up..."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

c'mon now. you're taking my comments to this other place I wasn't leaving them at. I WISH more people would get after Ross about what he's actually saying on some of these songs, but because of his presentation he just doesn't. Lupe puts himself out there as a Daniel Day-Lewis while Rick Ross wants to be Vin Diesel. People expect different things from themselves when they're in one lane of entertainment vs. another, that's just how it is for the majority.


I didn't say it was a good thing, or that I think Lupe shouldn't be given a break/Ross should be given a break.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Aug-28-12 07:04 AM

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121. "*Horrible Analogy Police Siren*"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

Lupe puts
>himself out there as a Daniel Day-Lewis while Rick Ross wants
>to be Vin Diesel.

Perhaps the worst analogy I've ever read on these boards,
and that is saying a lot.

People expect different things from
>themselves when they're in one lane of entertainment vs.
>another, that's just how it is for the majority.

This doesn't make a grain of sense.

>
>I didn't say it was a good thing, or that I think Lupe
>shouldn't be given a break/Ross should be given a break.

You're not making any sense.


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 03:39 PM

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100. "man, lupe is getting annoying as fuck on twitter"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

you'd think the guy never got a bad review before. get the fuck over it already. and this is coming from a big fan and avid defender of his music.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Aug-27-12 04:51 PM

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103. "Lupe has a twitter account? "
In response to Reply # 100


  

          


i.e. Who the fuck cares? Don't follow him. He
didn't ask you too.

Just listen to the fucking music.

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Holla At Ya Self
Member since Nov 09th 2005
50 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 06:17 PM

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110. "RE: man, lupe is getting annoying as fuck on twitter"
In response to Reply # 100


          

You do realize this is lupe's 'shtick'

He needs an adversary so he can rally fans.. Atlantic was last album.. Now it's 'fuck spin'

Marketing at its finest

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
13962 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 04:22 PM

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102. "didn't Luda and Nikki already make this song?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

:^/

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
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Mon Aug-27-12 05:07 PM

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105. "Ebony (yes Ebony!) goes in on the Lupe crtiques (Swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Aug-27-12 05:09 PM by murph71

          


I certainly don't agree with everything in this piece. But it raises some strong points, especially when it comes to the romanticizing of the past hip-hop scene in regards to misogyny and race....


----


August 2012
Entertainment & Culture
/ Music
What's So Bad About Lupe's Latest Single?


http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-culture/whats-so-bad-about-lupes-latest-single-622

Race and gender have always been complicated issues in and around hip-hop, a culture that is consumed globally, produced primarily by Black men yet largely influenced by White male label executives, fans and music critics. Two scathing criticisms of Lupe Fiasco’s “B*tch Bad” from SPIN's Marc Hogan and Brandon Soderberg are a powerful example of what happens when someone who is not emotionally connected to that which they profess to be an expert on is given a microphone and a position of influence.

Hogan’s “Lupe Fiasco Mansplains Misogyny on Counterproductive ‘B*tch Bad” opens by suggesting that two very different songs speak to a massive cultural shift around the word 'b*tch':

"Who you callin' a b*tch?" rages Queen Latifah, on her jazz-sampling single "U.N.I.T.Y.," originally released on the 1993 album Black Reign. "I'm a bad b*tch / I'm a, I'm a bad b*tch," repeats Nicki Minaj on her fire-breathing 2009 mixtape cut "Itty Bitty Piggy"…Clearly, something has changed in hip-hop's relationship with anti-woman slurs over the past two decades.”

Perhaps if Latifah's attitude had been the most pervasive one at the time in hip-hop culture; alas, '93 was the same year that Snoop’s Doggystyle was released and rap was becoming an increasingly hostile space for women. Fun fact about “U.N.I.T.Y.”- Latifah calls out a young girl for attempting to be a “gangster b*tch” after the popularity of rapper Apache’s hit song (produced by Q-Tip, creator of affirmative and loving songs about women) of the same name…meanwhile, Apache was her label mate and homeboy. Contradictions and complications are not new territory for rap music, be from a “sanctimonious” emcee or a blissfully ignorant one, so the anger at “B*tch Bad” really seems unwarranted.

Hogan goes on to charge that there is no need for rap music to “scold” listeners, as the genre has grown to include emcees who are better at being thoughtful without being preachy:

“From Das Racist and BBU to Killer Mike and Big K.R.I.T., more and more MCs are remembering how to make rap that has a political charge without sounding like Tipper Gore.”

Here, the writer's cultural disconnect is painfully clear. The 12-year-old girl popping her butt to the latest Nicki Minaj track doesn’t know who Das Racist is. God bless BBU, a multicultural Chicago hip-hop collective that was progressive enough to name a mix tape “bell hooks,” but the average 25-year-old brother from that same city doesn’t know who they are either. As for Killer Mike and his ‘romantic’ tale of a violent relationship on “U Know I Love You” and Big K.R.I.T.’s narrative about stepping out on his problematic girlfriend to sleep with an overweight woman who will pay his rent (“I Ain’t Sh*t” ), both songs peppered with the b-word…Hogan fails to cite evidence that “B*tch Bad” is worthless.

If one anti-“B*tch Bad” piece from a White dude who will never walk down any of the country’s Colored main drags and have the experience of being called a b*tch for no other reason than being a woman and present…SPIN ran another one weeks later.

Writer Brandon Soderberg is obviously no Lupe fan, made blatantly obvious from his opening line (“Why must we continually endure Lupe Fiasco's half-baked conscious hip-pop?”) and slams the rapper for “mining the moronic “lyrics over everything” attitude, reducing rap to a game of preaching to the converted,” as if this particular artist isn’t championed by fans for his style of rapping (and as if one has to be ‘converted’ to see the value in challenging the word ‘b*tch.’) This is from a person who has described the faux-gangster narratives of Rick Ross as "effective" and entertaining, yet clucks his tongue at the bra-busting rapper for exploiting ghetto life with his latest video, so weigh that as you will.

He goes on to reiterate Hogan’s assertion that the song is guilty of “mansplaining,” but in the very next sentence asks “but does any female want to be called "a lady"?

Son.

This is what happens when a person who is far removed from someone else’s world decides not only to peek in, but also tries to narrate from the outside. Speaking as an Actual Black Woman, not Race Non Specific Pretend Woman referenced in this article, I can tell you that the word “female” is a far greater point of contention than “lady” amongst sisters. And while plenty of women eschew the word “lady” or the expectation that one has to be “ladylike” to be respectable, others still cling tightly to the term and the traits. “Female,” however, is a term often hurled from the same lips that favor “b*tch.”

While Soderberg says little about the scenes featuring small children watching rap videos and emulating them (I don’t think this dude is particularly concerned about what little Black girls are witnessing that may be to their detriment, sorry), he’s super annoyed by the images of a rapper and video model applying blackface and “perpetuating the sounds-good-but-doesn't-really-parse argument that male gangsta rappers and female models/video girls are the modern day equivalent of blackface performers.”

Again, the problem of reporting on Black life from the outside looking in…and I don’t care how hip-hop ‘approved’ you are, how many Eightball and MJG tapes you have from seventh grade or even if you bothered to take an Afro-studies class at whatever liberal arts college that taught you how to wax poetic about Dipset, you are on the outside. The imagery in rap music is even more damning than early 20th century minstrelsy because there are so many folks inside and outside of the Black community who will fight tooth and nail to suggest that the buffoonery is not only authentic Blackness, but the most authentic form of Blackness. Furthermore, and most damning, these images influence young people to aspire to some of the lowest forms of modern human behavior, such as standing around and calling the women of one’s community “b*tches” with the same casual tone one may use to observe the weather.

Soderberg whines that the video “feeds on outdated and simplified hip-hop stereotypes…(and) plays into a decade-old understanding of hip-hop as the world of endless thugging and violence, which as I've said time and time again lately, just does not represent what rap music actually looks like and sounds like in 2012.” Alas, while the writer doesn’t see the need for a 50 Cent stand-in considering 50’s lack of musical relevance in today’s market, the character’s mannerisms bring to mind Waka Flocka, Lil’ Boosie, 2 Chainz and others who have both done extremely well in the ‘hood AND amongst pseudo-intellectual hip-hop hipsters.

Ironically, this same writer cried earlier this summer that the current dearth of “street rap” on mainstream radio is a bad thing. This is White privilege at its finest: being able to complain that there aren’t enough narratives about Black death and pain on the Pop stations, without being touched by said death and pain outside of one’s headphones or whatever corny hipster bar one goes to drink artisanal beer and nod awkwardly along to Chief Keef.

I don’t challenge the right of other writers or hip-hop fans to take issue with Lupe Fiasco just because I like him. “B*tch Bad” isn’t a perfect song or video, nor is it reinventing the way in which we discuss a controversial word; however, I still believe it delivers a powerful message that is particularly significant to rap’s youngest, most-easily influenced listeners.

It’s bit absurd for two men who can enjoy rap music while existing on the outside of the culture that sustains it to dismiss the need for a conversation about “b*tch,” a takedown of gross stereotypes in rap culture and the influence that their favorite music has on kids who don’t look like them. Clearly, guys like Hogan and Soderberg aren’t here for a “supposedly serious rapper like Lupe Fiasco, or the many thinkpiece-writing raconteurs who spend their days on hip-hop panels” and considering what that rapper and those writers must look like to someone who gets to enjoy “everything but the burden” when it comes to Black culture, I can’t hardly say I’m surprised. But that doesn't make their words less frustrating.

http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-culture/whats-so-bad-about-lupes-latest-single-622

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Mon Aug-27-12 05:23 PM

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106. "the outside of the culture"
In response to Reply # 105
Mon Aug-27-12 05:27 PM by bentagain

  

          

hip-hop is, and has been for awhile, pop culture

does the writer not consider that white kids are also being effected by the same images and influences

for me, it's this easy

coming up, there were hip-hop artists that were able to incorporate messages into their music

and it was still entertaining

i.e. KRS-ONE, PE, etc...

you could put on Terrordome or You Must Learn

and be entertained, and if you paid attention, you might learn something in the process

Lupe is boring

I am not entertained

he reminds me of the guy in I'm Gonna Get You Sucka

MESSAGE!!!

yeah, we got it, there's a message

now can we go back to enjoying ourselves

I'm not criticizing the message

it's just not entertainment

preaching to the converted still hasn't been addressed properly








---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 05:35 PM

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107. "RE: the outside of the culture"
In response to Reply # 106
Mon Aug-27-12 05:43 PM by murph71

          

>hip-hop is, and has been for awhile, pop culture
>
>does the writer not consider that white kids are also being
>effected by the same images and influences



No....I think she brings up specific instances of some of the uneven blogging that has been going on when it comes to hip hop criticism...

I don't agree with all her points....But I like the fact that she destroyed the bloggers' big point of "We live in a different world now...this sort of protest is antiquated" nonsense...

I think that's an issue I have with some bloggers today...

Personally, I don't think much of the Lupe song...I find it kind of "regular" for him...But I defend his right to say his piece without some blogger calling him out because Lupe's message does not fit well with his "shut up and rap" point of view...

To me this is the ETHERous point that sums it all up...

"Ironically, this same writer cried earlier this summer that the current dearth of “street rap” on mainstream radio is a bad thing. This is White privilege at its finest: being able to complain that there aren’t enough narratives about Black death and pain on the Pop stations, without being touched by said death and pain outside of one’s headphones or whatever corny hipster bar one goes to drink artisanal beer and nod awkwardly along to Chief Keef."

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 06:05 PM

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109. "I feel like there's a correlation to this message board"
In response to Reply # 107
Mon Aug-27-12 06:07 PM by bentagain

  

          

Ebony writes an article

about an article

inadvertently, anybody that hasn't read the referenced article

is now intrigued

= free shine

analogous

to a certain troll of the Lesson

who started all this Lupe attention whoring

now being fed troll fodder by posters actually conveying their opinions

i.e. it all feeds an agenda

as Bomb posted above

SPIN, and any other printed editorial is a dying entity

dude wrote what is being critiqued as a literary mess

yet here we are talking about it

and Ebony is making counter articles

dude probably never been so relevant

his boss just gave him a pat on the back, and a thatta boy

Lupe gets free press for his upcoming album

etc...

and at the end of the day, it's just not a good song









---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 06:51 PM

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111. "RE: I feel like there's a correlation to this message board"
In response to Reply # 109


          

>Ebony writes an article
>
>about an article
>
>inadvertently, anybody that hasn't read the referenced
>article
>
>is now intrigued
>
>= free shine
>
>analogous
>
>to a certain troll of the Lesson
>
>who started all this Lupe attention whoring
>
>now being fed troll fodder by posters actually conveying their
>opinions
>
>i.e. it all feeds an agenda
>
>as Bomb posted above
>
>SPIN, and any other printed editorial is a dying entity
>
>dude wrote what is being critiqued as a literary mess
>
>yet here we are talking about it
>
>and Ebony is making counter articles
>
>dude probably never been so relevant
>
>his boss just gave him a pat on the back, and a thatta boy
>
>Lupe gets free press for his upcoming album
>
>etc...
>
>and at the end of the day, it's just not a good song


Great points...I just think its more than a song being good or bad...If that was the debate here, I wouldn't be posting in this thread...lol

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 10:48 PM

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117. "Yah..."
In response to Reply # 111


          

The quality of the song is irrelevant here. We're talking about the lyrics. And it's interesting regardless of whether or not the song 'bangs'.

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
11281 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 10:27 PM

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114. "The plot thickens!"
In response to Reply # 105
Mon Aug-27-12 10:33 PM by denny

          

Firstly, I find this whole thread fascinating. And I think I'm the first person here to say that I DO think this song is pretty deep. It's multi-layered and complicated. It's not simple. Even those that seem to appreciate the message seem to deny this. I appreciate Lupe for providing a thoughtful lyric. At the same time...I agree with the characterization that Lupe is being 'smart-dumb' here.

But to address this Ebony article....I'm not sure if the author realizes she is employing the EXACT same device to refute the Spin writer as HE uses to refute Lupe's song....but she is.

She writes 'This is what happens when a person who is far removed from someone else’s world decides not only to peek in, but also tries to narrate from the outside.' But that's exactly what the Spin writer is accusing Lupe of doing. The only difference is the Ebony writer is thinking of a racial context and the Spin writer is thinking of a feminist context. Put simply, the spin writer is commentating on black culture while being white (the ebony persperspective).....and Lupe is commentating on women while being a man (the Spin perspective).

I side with the Spin writer here. The song may have some racial underlyings but could just as well apply to women of any race. It's much more clearly an attempt to write about issues relating to women. And because of that, the Spin writer's critique of Lupe stands firmer than that of the Ebony writer.



  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 10:36 PM

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115. "yall Realize hoW the OG poster edited his by-line out Quick"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Mon Aug-27-12 10:37 PM

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116. "Also LMAO at fools still typing paragraphs on this shit"
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Love ya moms and moms love ya self. </fin>
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21925 posts
Tue Aug-28-12 12:52 AM

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118. "white hpstr music critic put off by 'conscious' rap?"
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shocking.

never heard of this guy but i'll bet you $10,000 he's a massive gucci mane fan.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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49420 posts
Wed Aug-29-12 10:01 PM

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122. "this song is conscious rap for dumb adhd niggas"
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**********
"naive as the dry leaves on the ground looking past the trees to the blue sky asking 'why me?'" -Blu

  

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GumDrops
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26088 posts
Tue Aug-28-12 05:13 AM

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119. "why is 'convo-starting' worse than bonafide bitch baiting lyrics?"
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Tue Aug-28-12 05:20 AM by GumDrops

  

          

other than the fact lupe is seen as a more intelligent kind of rapper?

i havent even heard this song yet but from the sounds of it its another classic example of 'concerned for the women' songs from rappers who just end up sounding a bit sexist, despite their good intentions.

but thats just men making songs about women in general.

  

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GumDrops
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26088 posts
Tue Aug-28-12 05:14 AM

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120. "lol@'"sensitively deconstructed by Jay-Z on "99 Problems" '"
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riiiiiiiiiiiight

  

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Dr_Gonzo
Member since Feb 07th 2007
1523 posts
Wed Aug-29-12 10:18 PM

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123. ""If you havin' girl problems I feel bad for you son""
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Yeah, what the fuck was he talking about with this sentence?

  

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GumDrops
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Thu Aug-30-12 07:02 AM

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125. "jay-z's PR team have done an amazing job."
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k_orr
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80197 posts
Wed Aug-29-12 11:11 PM

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124. "this post is vainglorious. "
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I can't even begin to figure out who the smart dumb niggas even are.

one
k. orr

  

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lc ceo
Member since Jan 19th 2012
1681 posts
Thu Aug-30-12 07:27 AM

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126. "#team boombastic"
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Pretty much the only reasonable, objective, un-emo voice in the thread.

  

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