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Subject: "Isn't it odd that The Firm (Nas, Foxy Brown, AZ, Nature) existed?" Previous topic | Next topic
forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
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Tue Jul-17-12 10:55 PM

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"Isn't it odd that The Firm (Nas, Foxy Brown, AZ, Nature) existed?"


  

          

like you have think that the idea of The Firm came out of the session Dr. Dre and Nas had for 'Nas is Coming'. but the thing is, who really thought 'Nas is Coming' was a good song, even then?

i don't hide the fact that I am a big Dre fan and even though Nas' consistency throughout his career is kinda spotty, his high marks are better than literally a handful of rappers that have ever cut records and I ride for him in general.

but the idea that either or both of them thought that after the letdown that 'Nas is Coming' was that heads or casual fans or really anybody was checking for an album with nothing but Dr. Dre and Nas (and the Family) is either the height of hubris or just plain comedy.

your thoughts..?

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: More revisionism regarding It Was Written.
Jul 17th 2012
1
don't get me wrong
Jul 17th 2012
6
      RE: I bought it the week it was released.
Jul 18th 2012
8
           RE: I bought it the week it was released.
Jul 18th 2012
11
Life Is Good!
Jul 17th 2012
2
It's funny.
Jul 18th 2012
9
as much of a let down as it was
Jul 17th 2012
3
I don't remember Executive Decisions
Jul 17th 2012
5
RE: as much of a let down as it was
Jul 18th 2012
13
i've either forgotten or was unaware that Dre was part of it.
Jul 17th 2012
4
i kinda fibbed about Dre producing the whole album.
Jul 18th 2012
7
      RE: i kinda fibbed about Dre producing the whole album.
Jul 18th 2012
14
      Dre perfected an east coast style to his music on Straight Outta Compton
Jul 18th 2012
22
           I'm not too familiar with Dre's music from that time
Jul 18th 2012
27
           That was before the West Coast really had a sound, Boyz n da hood
Jul 18th 2012
29
a best of both coasts if you will and my thoughts are
Jul 18th 2012
10
firm fiasco and phone tap alone were well worth the bullshit
Jul 18th 2012
12
Firm Family was dope, too.
Jul 18th 2012
15
I'm leavin w/Noreaga was dope too
Jul 18th 2012
16
The Firm was put together in 1995 tho
Jul 18th 2012
17
This is great analysis.
Jul 18th 2012
18
Too many people, not one taking the lead amongst them.
Jul 18th 2012
19
Haha. Well said.
Jul 18th 2012
20
AZ showed his ass on that album
Jul 18th 2012
21
DAmn shame how Cormega got kicked out
Jul 18th 2012
24
crazy how Dre Made dissapoiments with the 2 biggest NY Mcs of
Jul 18th 2012
23
Haha well let's be fair...
Jul 18th 2012
31
Couple thoughts...
Jul 18th 2012
25
RE: Couple thoughts...
Jul 18th 2012
32
Canibus' first four bars on that album basically stole the show
Jul 18th 2012
26
Nas is Coming is one of his worst songs ever...
Jul 18th 2012
28
lol, sup Naaaaaaaaaas!!
Jul 18th 2012
30
RE: lol, sup Naaaaaaaaaas!!
Jul 18th 2012
35
Yo that shit is ugly...
Jul 18th 2012
33
i actually remember that the firm was supposed to b even bigger @ 1st
Jul 18th 2012
34

Austin
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Tue Jul-17-12 11:09 PM

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1. "RE: More revisionism regarding It Was Written."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And, for the record, I hate Nas.

~Austin

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com
http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus
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http://soundcloud.com/austintayeshus

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
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Tue Jul-17-12 11:54 PM

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6. "don't get me wrong"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

i rode for 'Nas is Coming' when it came out. i was so hyped to hear my favorite producer working with someone as talented as Nas.

but even when i heard the song, i had this kind of odd, quesy feeling like, 'this is SUPPOSED to be good...but it really isn't. at least not as good as this song was intended to be.'

i like 'It Was Written' and I know the album got mixed reviews when it was released and the opinion is more favorable now. i liked it then, although to be fair I do like it more now.

but making 'The Firm' album based upon the quality (both of the song and the type of reception it got) is kind of like making a sequel of the movie 'The Fifth Element'. alright movie but i don't think it was good enough to deserve a sequel.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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Austin
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8. "RE: I bought it the week it was released."
In response to Reply # 6
Wed Jul-18-12 12:04 AM by Austin

  

          

I had also just gotten hip to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vio4VEW-lgI

Via this: http://www.whosampled.com/sample/view/7500/Eric%20B.%20%26%20Rakim-In%20the%20Ghetto_The%2024-Carat%20Black-Ghetto:%20Misfortune%27s%20Wealth/

So I always thought the song was excellent, minus the canned intro.

EDIT: Though I loved the sentiment of east/west unite.

~Austin

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com
http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus
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http://soundcloud.com/austintayeshus

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
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Wed Jul-18-12 12:24 AM

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11. "RE: I bought it the week it was released."
In response to Reply # 8
Wed Jul-18-12 12:25 AM by forgivenphoenix

  

          

i *did* like the East Coast / West Coast aspect to the song, especially at that time in hip-hop's history. i think if B.I.G. and Dre had collaborated, maybe the status of the work might have caused tensions to relax some. as you already know from being there, Nas was a breakout star, but because his debut didn't have the commercial impact that Biggie's album did, I don't think enough of the people who needed to hear the message of unity got the message.

i thought at the time and still do think that Nas was really making a bold and powerful move to try and enact peace within hip-hop. it was really admirable.

that song that Dre sampled for the Nas track sounded like a song Dre would make. that rolling keyboard melody and the voice over sound like something that could have been on The Chronic.

after hearing the OG song, i think the final product is a little understated. but then again, i don't know if Nas kind of restrained sound would have worked over a more energetic track.

thanks for the link to the sample tho. that is good to know about.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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realityrap
Member since Sep 21st 2005
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Tue Jul-17-12 11:10 PM

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2. "Life Is Good!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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forgivenphoenix
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9. "It's funny."
In response to Reply # 2
Wed Jul-18-12 12:10 AM by forgivenphoenix

  

          

the only reason I was listening to 'Nas is Coming' today was because my brother texted me and told me what a great album Life is Good is and since i'm too vain to buy the digital copy, i wanted a fix to satisfy my Nas jones.

i was listening to 'It Was Written' and i started at the beginning and just when i was doing the dishes at night, i was listening to 'Nas is Coming' and for the first time i was like, 'you know what? everyone else is right, this just isn't a good song.'

i think what happened is that they were both genuinely in awe of each other. (and high too.)

and rather than stay in their respective comfort zone, they kind of tried to outdo each other and it just doesn't do much of anything.

i genuinely think the most interesting part of the track is the part at the end when Dr. Dre's voice echos through the voice over.

it's not really BAD in a cheesy or unskilled sense. it's just more of a headscratcher.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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Anonymous
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Tue Jul-17-12 11:11 PM

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3. "as much of a let down as it was"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it gave me Executive Decisions and Phone Tap so I can't complain.

Those are two dope ass songs right there with the latter being a fucking classic.

  

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forgivenphoenix
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Tue Jul-17-12 11:48 PM

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5. "I don't remember Executive Decisions"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

but yeah Phone Tap is a great song.

i think i'm reacting more to the idea of the pairing seeming like such a good idea on paper and then working out to be so ordinary in reality.

usually, there are only follow-ups if the project works out, but i don't think anyone really thought that 'Nas is Coming' was a success, even when the album came out.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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DredScott
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13. "RE: as much of a let down as it was"
In response to Reply # 3


          

>it gave me Executive Decisions and Phone Tap so I can't
>complain.
>
>Those are two dope ass songs right there with the latter being
>a fucking classic.


while i love "phone tap" and "executive decision" is nice, you know your album isn't as dope as it should be when two up-and-comers (canibus and noreaga) who come thru and "murder you on your own shit" on your crew's supposed "super album".

i routinely listen to "desperados" and "i'm leavin'" just to hear canibus and noreaga. i mean shit as the rumors go, the reason that nas ain't on the LP version of "desperados" is cause he heard canibus's verse and didn't want to be apart of the massacre that took place on there and after hearing the demo version that made the mixtape rounds before the lp dropped i don't blame him, his verse wasn't touching canibus's.

The Firm album was a flop but man did it showcase those two mc's for better or worse.

and on another note, who woulda thought back then in the fall of 97 that noreaga's debut lp would absolutely crush canibus's lp in terms of quality...i know i didn't and i rode hard for "indian style/knees bent, militant" noreaga too off the strength of The War Report.

---------------------------------------
Some words of wisdom to the idiotic okayplayers...

It Is Better To Be Thought Of As A Fool, Than To Open Your Mouth And Remove All Doubt.

  

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MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
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Tue Jul-17-12 11:19 PM

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4. "i've either forgotten or was unaware that Dre was part of it."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he was supposed to produce the whole thing? really? :/

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
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7. "i kinda fibbed about Dre producing the whole album."
In response to Reply # 4
Wed Jul-18-12 12:02 AM by forgivenphoenix

  

          

according to Wikipedia, Dre & Trackmasters were supposed to produce the whole album all along.

now that i had some more time to think about it. i was wrong about the aspect of The Firm being a creation of Dre and Nas. The Firm was born on 'Affirmative Action'. That actually was a good jumping point for an album.

i'm still kind of shaking my head at the Dr. Dre affiliation tho.

I think the beat for 'Nas is Coming' is probably more a product of Nas having 'iffy' taste in beats than a lack of ability of Dre at that time. Although, Dr. Dre had never really produced for a rapper with a distinct East Coast sound before then and just probably hadn't perfected an East Coast style to his music.

but still... it wasn't his best look.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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DredScott
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Wed Jul-18-12 03:32 AM

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14. "RE: i kinda fibbed about Dre producing the whole album."
In response to Reply # 7
Wed Jul-18-12 03:33 AM by DredScott

          

nah, you didn't lie. all the talk in hip-hop back then when the firm was coming out was how dre was gonna produce the whole LP and then the shit drops and this nigga Nature replaces Cormega and Dre produces a handful of joints, oh wait scratch then i found out some nigga named "The Glove" really produced "Phone Tap" along with every other dre cut on there.

i believe the firm album was the first time most of us actually realized that dre was EQ'ing other no-name cats beats and slapping his name on there as a producer and using his name to sell records or at least it was for me.

---------------------------------------
Some words of wisdom to the idiotic okayplayers...

It Is Better To Be Thought Of As A Fool, Than To Open Your Mouth And Remove All Doubt.

  

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Bombastic
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22. "Dre perfected an east coast style to his music on Straight Outta Compton"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>Although, Dr. Dre had never
>really produced for a rapper with a distinct East Coast sound
>before then and just probably hadn't perfected an East Coast
>style to his music.
>

  

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forgivenphoenix
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Wed Jul-18-12 08:22 PM

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27. "I'm not too familiar with Dre's music from that time"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

but from the little music i heard from Dre from around that time, i kinda thought he was more 'Bomb Squad' (which is definitely East Coast) but not boom-bap.

it sounded like he didn't really find his own distinct sound until the Efil4zaggin album or so.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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Wed Jul-18-12 08:29 PM

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29. "That was before the West Coast really had a sound, Boyz n da hood"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

and all those songs technically sounded more East. Style was different on a few tracks, but didn't really become it's own til "Always into somethin" to me

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

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mistermaxxx08
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Wed Jul-18-12 12:11 AM

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10. "a best of both coasts if you will and my thoughts are"
In response to Reply # 0


          

had this thing hit then Dr. Dre could have done a i told you so toward Snoop and 2Pac by rolling with Nas.

you see his I'm the Producer and the One who can make or break you had to set in and he had already established himself as the Man on the West Coast, now you got Nas who is arguably in his Prime and Peak on the East and Foxy Brown who is starting to peak, i get where this could go 2)

also Nas knows a good deal and flip when he sees one and this could have an incredible impact if it hits.

One thing about Nas is that he ain't met a Duet Partner he didn't like for a hit believe that.

Dr Dre and him if done right could have really flipped the script back in a time when East coast and west coast dominance was the talk of the town.

in truth on paper this made alot of sense for the simple fact Nas wanted that cross over that Snoop and Pac got working with Dr. Dre and Dr Dre wanted that East coast paper and respect by working with Nas.

it could have been the best of both coasts if done the right way with the right cuts.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Maroon Tiger 2
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Wed Jul-18-12 01:45 AM

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12. "firm fiasco and phone tap alone were well worth the bullshit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

high like giraffe pussy....

im livin' life with some buuuurdensome niggas...

  

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Brew
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15. "Firm Family was dope, too."
In response to Reply # 12


          

Nature's 1st verse (Which was also on "Everyday Thing") was dope. And Dre's last verse was awesome.

"Anybody pumpin beef between east and west.......FUCK you"

Dope.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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16. "I'm leavin w/Noreaga was dope too"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

At least to me it was. Along with the short joint Wiz did which should've been longer.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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Chanson
Member since Nov 09th 2004
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Wed Jul-18-12 10:43 AM

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17. "The Firm was put together in 1995 tho"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-18-12 10:59 AM by Chanson

  

          

Foxy Brown name drops The Firm on the "I Shot Ya (Remix)".

Nas and AZ are in the music video too.

Dre was brought in when it was time to record the album as a way to bridge the gap between east and west. This was a post Pac and Biggie being murdered hip-hop landscape we're talking about here. It made sense at the time.

Nas and Dre already had a working relationship from working on "Nas Is Coming" and "East Coast/West Coast Killas", which were both on the same vibe of bringing the east and west together.

The problems with The Firm album were this:

1) Too many people involved. If you look at the back of The Firm album you will see like 100 logos. Aftermath, Interscope, Def Jam, Columbia, Violator, Trackmasters, etc. This lead to many clashes. Labels wanted their artists to shine and had their interests in mind instead of making a good album. The most notable fallout from this was Cormega being kicked out of the group.

2) Not enough Dr. Dre production. As mentioned this was a post Pac/Biggie time frame. Nas & co didn't want to go to L.A. to record. Dre didn't want to come to NYC to record. They compromised and recorded in Miami. Dre produced some of the best songs on the album.

3) Trackmasters and Foxy Brown ruined it. I'm a Trackmasters fan. I think they did a great job on It Was Written. Not on The Firm album tho. With the exception of "I'm Leaving" their beats were awful. And at this time Foxy was developing the rep of being a diva. It showed on the album. It's almost as though she didn't want to be there.

4) Nas wasn't focused when it came time to record. The Firm was put together pre-It Was Written. After the success of that album Nas was coasting a bit. AZ has said that at that time there were smoking like 20 blunts a day and partying hard. Only the hungry artists shined, which is why a Canibus and a Noreaga can come thru and be the highlights of the album.

All in all the album is one of the biggest debacles in hip-hop history. It's not a bad album but it could have been so much better.

I'm not proofreading this. Apologies for any typos.

mind
--------
matter

  

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Brew
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18. "This is great analysis."
In response to Reply # 17


          

All very true. I agree that Dre should have been more prominent production wise but like you said, the amount of people involved made it nearly impossible for the recording process to go smoothly.

It's too bad, too. With all the talent involved (besides maybe Foxy, though I liked her more at that time), this should have been an absolutely insane album. It had it's moments (again, mostly Dre-related) but overall disappointed greatly.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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ricky_BUTLER
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Wed Jul-18-12 12:03 PM

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19. "Too many people, not one taking the lead amongst them."
In response to Reply # 17


          

No clear vision.

>1) Too many people involved.

Especially when you look at how people like Sadat X and Mary J Blige might have also played a role. Like a rap clown car.

http://escobartheory.blogspot.com/2006/02/firm-flop.html


Still aside from a couple of the above-mentioned songs, The Firm did give us this gem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OPHXc3gBI4

  

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Brew
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20. "Haha. Well said."
In response to Reply # 19


          

>Like a rap clown car.
>
>http://escobartheory.blogspot.com/2006/02/firm-flop.html

Thanks for the link. I'll be checkin this out.

Sucks cause the guy who SHOULD'VE taken direction was Dre, cause at that time (or at least a little before that time) he was orchestrating some of the best full albums in rap history.

Too too bad.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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13Rose
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21. "AZ showed his ass on that album"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

He knew he had something to prove and his verses show that. Firm Fiasco was a beast of a song until Foxy starts rapping. Executive Decision is a thing of beauty. It's wack that the album was a fluke, but that said the few gems ALMOST make it worth the purchase.

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Menphyel7
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24. "DAmn shame how Cormega got kicked out"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

I think it would have been special if he at least stayed.

He would have made them keep some kind of grimey shit on there....maybe that's why he got kicked out in the first place tho.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

  

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Menphyel7
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23. "crazy how Dre Made dissapoiments with the 2 biggest NY Mcs of"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that generation...Wit the Firm and Kingdom Come..

he needs to leave that east coast shit alone.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Jul-18-12 08:40 PM

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31. "Haha well let's be fair..."
In response to Reply # 23


          

Dre was a PART of one of Jay and one of Nas' bigger disappointments, but the parts of each that Dre actually worked on were high points. At least in my opinion. It was the rest of them messy ass albums that were the problem to me.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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phemom
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
5137 posts
Wed Jul-18-12 04:02 PM

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25. "Couple thoughts..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I remember buying this still, I was young (like 13) and was just starting to figure out that I liked and didn't like. Posters in the store told me when stuff was dropping (for Detroiters remember "Kendricks" on Fenkell? that was the spot), so the poster of the cover is embedded in my mind. I couldn't wait for this...

I was a big fan of Foxy, Nas & Dre of course...didn't know nothing about AZ,Nature, Half-A-Mil,N.O.R.E., or Wizard....and Cormega has always been wack to me. Coincidentally this album made me like Nature...

Pretty Boy should've been kicked out the studio.

I get the Nas/AZ partying too much...cause there's verses that should've been cut. This album should've been Nas,AZ,Fox, Cormega & Nature...since they recorded for damn near a year I bet there's some good shit in a harddrive somewhere.

I didn't own many cd's....so I played the shit out of this. Still find myself saying "Far back as I can remember...I always wanted to be in the firm".

Now that I know more about it, I wonder who chose what made the record...because this album is literally half nice...half wack.

Did Chris "The Glove" Taylor do anything after this...every track he did was flames.

"Five Minutes to Flush" was my favorite cut, even if musically didn't fit at all.

Listening to "Phone Tap" as I type, kinda amazing that this was a single...and radio played it. I miss radio singles being singles because they were dope, not formula.

phemom's the name, all-star writer/
searching 4 journalistic fame, mindframe igniter....www.twitter.com/hayabusaage

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Jul-18-12 08:44 PM

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32. "RE: Couple thoughts..."
In response to Reply # 25


          

>"Five Minutes to Flush" was my favorite cut, even if musically
>didn't fit at all.

Dude yea --- there is a remix somewhere on youtube that I love. The beat is much more fitting. Always thought the same thing.


>Listening to "Phone Tap" as I type, kinda amazing that this
>was a single...and radio played it. I miss radio singles being
>singles because they were dope, not formula.

Agreed entirely bruh.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
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Wed Jul-18-12 05:49 PM

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26. "Canibus' first four bars on that album basically stole the show"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I really only remember that album fondly for that reason alone.

  

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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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Wed Jul-18-12 08:26 PM

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28. "Nas is Coming is one of his worst songs ever..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

....the beginning is cringe worthy ...Motherfuckin Dre! ,,,,AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Wed Jul-18-12 08:30 PM

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30. "lol, sup Naaaaaaaaaas!!"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Yeah, that whole convo was just bad.

  

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13Rose
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Wed Jul-18-12 11:48 PM

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35. "RE: lol, sup Naaaaaaaaaas!!"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

That shit is instant comedy!

This post was paid for by the following.

www.twitter.com/13Rose
www.debunkthemyth.org
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www.mothergreen.com

Remember MJ The Great!
PSN: ThirteenRose

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
25491 posts
Wed Jul-18-12 08:45 PM

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33. "Yo that shit is ugly..."
In response to Reply # 28


          

just disgustingly ugly.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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MajrLeaguer
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Wed Jul-18-12 10:13 PM

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34. "i actually remember that the firm was supposed to b even bigger @ 1st"
In response to Reply # 0


          

There was a Sadat X interview in like 95-96 where he mentions being down w/ this clique coming forth called The Firm, which also was to include, in addition to Nas & AZ n nem, Large Professor and Mary J Blige if I recall correctly. He was saying it was gonna b a super-clique. This was pre-Dre. It was almost like a response to cliques in hip hop like Wu-Tang, Junior MAFIA, and The Dogg Pound.

In turn, BIG & Jay-Z started forming The Commision, partly because they weren't invited to do The Firm.

Twitter.com/djRBI
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"I'm That Guy", Mike G (J Beez)

  

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