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Subject: "Every Era has Legends: Post 2000 are Kanye & 50 the only Legends?" Previous topic | Next topic
Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Wed May-02-12 03:43 PM

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"Every Era has Legends: Post 2000 are Kanye & 50 the only Legends?"


  

          

Every Era has Legends: Post 2000 are Kanye & 50 the only Legends? Are there any other MC's and Producers you see that will have legendary status? The 80's had Run Dmc, LL, NWA, PE etc..etc.. The 90 of course had Biggie, Pac, Tribe, Nas, Outkast, Jay-Z etc.. The 2000's...you have Kanye and 50 Cent...they are legends in the game...like them or not but who are more that you feel will be looked at by the next era of Hip Hop fans as legends?

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Even 50 is arguable. Lil Wayne is but does he count as 90's?
May 02nd 2012
1
BUSDRIVER
May 02nd 2012
2
underground ya. might as well put Living Legends crew on too
May 02nd 2012
55
Don't you need to have some kind of impact to be a legend?
May 02nd 2012
77
It depends who you ask. Us 80's babies are a tough sell
May 02nd 2012
3
I agree on Kanye. Is 50 getting the BDK pass?
May 02nd 2012
4
Perhaps. There can be no denying his influence or impact, however short
May 02nd 2012
5
      RE: Perhaps. There can be no denying his influence or impact, however sh...
May 02nd 2012
6
Um... so are you putting Eminem in the 90's or 2000's???
May 02nd 2012
7
I guess he can be included in the post 2000 class
May 02nd 2012
8
Yea, same as Wayne and Jay to me. And how Drake might be for
May 02nd 2012
10
Gotta disagree on Jay
May 07th 2012
205
      I'd agree that RD is arguable...many folks say Blueprint
May 08th 2012
219
           RE: I'd agree that RD is arguable...many folks say Blueprint
May 08th 2012
220
                Yep. A lotta folks claim they were down when RD dropped but nah
May 08th 2012
229
RE: Um... so are you putting Eminem in the 90's or 2000's???
May 02nd 2012
29
T.I.?
May 02nd 2012
9
nope he pissed his shot away by being a dumb nigga.
May 02nd 2012
12
Low key, he started to decline before jail though
May 02nd 2012
14
      yup, T.I. vs T.I.P. was when I got off the train
May 02nd 2012
30
      yeah but i think he could've held it steady
May 02nd 2012
36
yep Tip is a legend he change the game
May 03rd 2012
101
      RE: yep Tip is a legend he change the game
May 03rd 2012
109
Wayne, Em. Drake will get there, but the heads will be maaaaaaaad
May 02nd 2012
11
explain how Em isn't already there...
May 02nd 2012
13
i should've broken that up better
May 02nd 2012
32
      And you're right about Ross...
May 02nd 2012
38
eh. at this point, if Drake keeps his lane or even better
May 02nd 2012
27
      Ross is missing that one smash album i think
May 02nd 2012
33
talib kweli
May 02nd 2012
15
underground legend who will be appreciated by many...
May 02nd 2012
17
      Nope. He wasn't popular enough. Mos Def could have been one,
May 02nd 2012
20
           talib kweli is the only classic lp i can think
May 07th 2012
209
y'all won't like it but Drake and 40 are gonna be hella influential
May 02nd 2012
16
They definitely will... I wish Drake would embrace it more...
May 02nd 2012
18
      ross is a rapper. They all lie
May 02nd 2012
40
           No doubt... I just can't fuck with him...
May 02nd 2012
42
so, to be a "legend" you have to be a pop star, right?
May 02nd 2012
19
You have to have impact on a major scale
May 02nd 2012
21
so you have to be a pop star to have large scale influence?
May 02nd 2012
23
Depends on who you consider a pop star
May 02nd 2012
24
      but all the names folks dropping as 00's "legends" are pop stars
May 02nd 2012
26
      RE: but all the names folks dropping as 00's "legends" are pop stars
May 02nd 2012
31
      theyre pop stars NOW so ur post is pointless
May 02nd 2012
46
           RE: theyre pop stars NOW so ur post is pointless
May 03rd 2012
100
      Who do you consider a legend in the past decade?
May 02nd 2012
39
      In the 2000's, hip hop = pop
May 02nd 2012
41
      it cant possibly make me mad bc it's patently FALSE
May 02nd 2012
44
      Hip Hop is more popular than it was back in the day.
May 08th 2012
228
      my man
May 03rd 2012
112
           RE: my man
May 03rd 2012
122
                explain what u mean by this statement
May 03rd 2012
124
                     RE: explain what u mean by this statement
May 03rd 2012
144
                          exactly, that's the point
May 03rd 2012
147
                               RE: exactly, that's the point
May 04th 2012
154
                                    RE: exactly, that's the point
May 05th 2012
161
Nothing major about Kool G Rap's impact but he's a legend
May 03rd 2012
119
      Nas says otherwise
May 05th 2012
163
Not necessarily, but you do have to be prominent (read: popular),
May 02nd 2012
22
popular to/amongst whom?
May 02nd 2012
25
You have to go pop to go plat these days
May 02nd 2012
67
      smh
May 03rd 2012
127
okay, fine...convince the lesson that Madlib isnt a LEGEND
May 02nd 2012
28
RE: okay, fine...convince the lesson that Madlib isnt a LEGEND
May 02nd 2012
34
your criteria for a legend is CROCKER
May 02nd 2012
50
RE: your criteria for a legend is CROCKER
May 02nd 2012
80
dude. u r crazy. madLib is a fuckn Legend bro. underground Legend
May 02nd 2012
60
Convince me as many people will remember him as they will Kanye West..
May 02nd 2012
35
what people?
May 02nd 2012
45
      The general public...
May 02nd 2012
49
           why is the general public anywhere near a discussion of hip-hop...
May 02nd 2012
52
                How do you not understand that RECOGNITION is a big part of this??
May 02nd 2012
57
                RECOGNITION BY WHOM???
May 02nd 2012
61
                RE: RECOGNITION BY WHOM???
May 02nd 2012
66
                     ...
May 02nd 2012
72
                          I get it now... Your world is The Lesson... n/m
May 02nd 2012
76
                if you take your logic to its ends...
May 06th 2012
172
                     RE: if you take your logic to its ends...
May 06th 2012
173
                RE: why is the general public anywhere near a discussion of hip-hop...
May 03rd 2012
111
                     yeah...youre just either not a smart person AT ALL
May 03rd 2012
125
madlib is a cult figure.
May 02nd 2012
37
so?
May 02nd 2012
47
      you could at least pretend to be objective about it
May 02nd 2012
51
           He's really mad that a very large group has to actually LIKE one's music...
May 02nd 2012
54
           a very large group DOES like Madlib's work
May 02nd 2012
63
           phil catchin feelings over this shit.
May 02nd 2012
65
           even haters like yall know better than that
May 02nd 2012
68
                no one here has hated on madlib... n/m
May 02nd 2012
70
                     its a popular term, ppl throw it around wildly so why not?
May 02nd 2012
75
           Only in Hip-Hop have I heard this argument...
May 03rd 2012
92
           you just listed artists with huge fan bases...
May 03rd 2012
93
                Didn't you see where he explained they don't really have that big a fan ...
May 03rd 2012
117
                     He explained their fan base then...
May 03rd 2012
132
                          RE: He explained their fan base then...
May 03rd 2012
134
                          why do you guys keep bringing up record sales??
May 03rd 2012
139
                               Come on don't hide behind language
May 03rd 2012
141
                                    my argument has been impact and influence...
May 03rd 2012
143
                                         Well Madlib has plenty of recognition
May 03rd 2012
148
                          Then? They still haven't gone platinum dude
May 03rd 2012
140
                               could be people are just picking up their best of comps...
May 03rd 2012
142
           RE: He's really mad that a very large group has to actually LIKE one's m...
May 06th 2012
174
                RE: He's really mad that a very large group has to actually LIKE one's m...
May 06th 2012
175
                     its attack on the logic that says
May 06th 2012
177
                          RE: its attack on the logic that says
May 06th 2012
178
                               but Dilla aint the only one
May 06th 2012
183
                               RE: but Dilla aint the only one
May 06th 2012
187
                               RE: its attack on the logic that says
May 06th 2012
185
           why should *i* pretend when yall are incapable of keeping...
May 02nd 2012
58
           Yep. End of story and goodnight.
May 02nd 2012
69
                this "objective" shit w/ yall is JUST like how the GOP plays it
May 02nd 2012
74
                     ^^^^^^
May 03rd 2012
118
                     I'm not even in it. I just agreed that Madlib is extremely Unsung
May 03rd 2012
131
                          RE: I'm not even in it. I just agreed that Madlib is extremely Unsung
May 03rd 2012
133
                          Is DJ Quik a legend or unsung?
May 03rd 2012
137
                               West Coast legend, and unsung.
May 03rd 2012
145
                                    So would Madlib be an underground legend?
May 04th 2012
152
                                         Yep...and to me, I'd say a Kool G Rap is still more of a legend
May 06th 2012
188
Madlib is more important to his peers than he is to the people
May 02nd 2012
43
so only his peers made the Medicine Show a finacially viable project?
May 02nd 2012
48
He doesn't fit the criteria, has been doing his thing pre '00
May 02nd 2012
53
madLib fits the criteria bro
May 02nd 2012
62
I personally feel he's a legend
May 03rd 2012
108
kanye west and 50 cent, yknow the 2 guys mentioned in the OP?
May 02nd 2012
64
      Madlib was rapping in the 90's though. 50 too. Not Kanye.
May 02nd 2012
71
           OMG SEROUSLY DUDE?!?!!?!!????
May 02nd 2012
73
                i already knew where this was going when you started
May 03rd 2012
104
100% madLib is THAT motherfuckn dude 4hiphop in 00's
May 02nd 2012
59
the Blue Note record certifies him IMO
May 03rd 2012
94
^^This
May 08th 2012
230
madlib is DEF a legend
May 06th 2012
176
MadLib is the biggest Legend from the 00's on hiphop
May 02nd 2012
56
RE: MadLib is the biggest Legend from the 00's on hiphop
May 02nd 2012
78
      RE: MadLib is the biggest Legend from the 00's on hiphop
May 02nd 2012
79
           Casual hip-hop fans don't have a fucking clue who KRS and Rakim are.
May 02nd 2012
81
           RE: Casual hip-hop fans don't have a fucking clue who KRS and Rakim are.
May 02nd 2012
82
                RE: Casual hip-hop fans don't have a fucking clue who KRS and Rakim are.
May 02nd 2012
83
                Dude you're a joke in this debate
May 03rd 2012
120
           BULLSHIT!!!
May 03rd 2012
113
                It's clear that this is an age thing
May 08th 2012
223
Kweli and Beans
May 02nd 2012
84
Dilla, Cam'ron, DOOM, Lib, Atmosphere, Clipse, Neptunes
May 02nd 2012
85
Also, by Thane's criteria, who I usually don't disagree with
May 03rd 2012
86
      RE: Also, by Thane's criteria, who I usually don't disagree with
May 03rd 2012
98
           than how are you saying Fab isnt but 50 is
May 03rd 2012
114
Re:
May 03rd 2012
87
RE: Re:
May 03rd 2012
102
I wouldn't say Jay-z became a legend until the 2000's
May 03rd 2012
88
I don't think we're far enough away from the era for this discussion.
May 03rd 2012
89
RE: I don't think we're far enough away from the era for this discussion...
May 03rd 2012
97
Pharrell, Dilla, Just Blaze, Em, T.I., MF Doom, Weezy, Madlib
May 03rd 2012
90
RE: Pharrell, Dilla, Just Blaze, Em, T.I., MF Doom, Weezy, Madlib
May 03rd 2012
99
I'm not naming ppl, these are all ppl who've left their mark
May 03rd 2012
110
Good call on Talib Kweli.
May 03rd 2012
129
Madlib because I don't care what casual fans think or know about
May 03rd 2012
91
here's the thing about madlib
May 03rd 2012
95
LOL STOP THIS SHIT
May 03rd 2012
115
dont forget BK 5-6
May 03rd 2012
126
RE: dont forget BK 5-6
May 03rd 2012
135
all the shit you named was collabs, though
May 04th 2012
149
      that's your opinion. and that/this is mine
May 04th 2012
157
           dude the instro version of unseen KICKS SO MUCH ASS
May 04th 2012
158
                ^^^^
May 08th 2012
215
Your taste isn't what makes a legend
May 03rd 2012
121
i just wanna thank philpot.. for making this poast inner..resting
May 03rd 2012
96
*daps*
May 03rd 2012
103
^
May 03rd 2012
105
I love how the usual rodropers fucked this post entirely
May 03rd 2012
106
RE: I love how the usual rodropers fucked this post entirely
May 03rd 2012
107
      but your interpretations/explainations of what is are
May 03rd 2012
116
           RE: but your interpretations/explainations of what is are
May 03rd 2012
123
Lose all credibility...
May 03rd 2012
128
RE: Lose all credibility...
May 03rd 2012
130
RE: Lose all credibility...
May 05th 2012
169
50 can rap circles around
May 03rd 2012
146
      RE: 50 can rap circles around
May 04th 2012
153
      He sure made better music than them.
May 04th 2012
155
           RE: He sure made better music than them.
May 05th 2012
160
RE: Every Era has Legends: Post 2000 are Kanye & 50 the only Legends...
May 03rd 2012
136
Dizzy WHO?
May 03rd 2012
138
i feel like this post was more about icons than legends
May 04th 2012
150
i think madlib, the roots, doom, dilla etc
May 04th 2012
151
RE: Every Era has Legends: Post 2000 are Kanye & 50 the only Legends...
May 04th 2012
156
RE: Every Era has Legends: Post 2000 are Kanye & 50 the only Legends...
May 04th 2012
159
ppl overuse the term legends. but the greats of 00s rap will be
May 05th 2012
162
Gucci Mane and Waka and not Jeezy or Ross? Yeah ok
May 05th 2012
165
      i forgot about them
May 06th 2012
171
When I consider someone to be *Legendary* they have to have a combo
May 05th 2012
164
RE: When I consider someone to be *Legendary* they have to have a combo
May 05th 2012
166
how about you keep ignoring the fact that
May 05th 2012
167
      RE: how about you keep ignoring the fact that
May 05th 2012
170
The artists you listed were very much THE faces of 2000's hip hop.
May 05th 2012
168
Lupe is close - quiet as its kept.
May 06th 2012
179
To a legend?
May 06th 2012
180
RE: To a legend?
May 06th 2012
189
What has Lupe done to be close to being considered a legend?
May 06th 2012
181
definitely an UNSUNG...
May 06th 2012
182
Yeah, Lupe can write amazing raps, so what?
May 06th 2012
184
      Yeah, that was kinda my point...
May 06th 2012
186
lol
May 07th 2012
198
To the people who say you have to be a pop star to be a hip hop legend:
May 06th 2012
190
So here's my question about it....
May 06th 2012
191
      RE: So here's my question about it....
May 06th 2012
192
           the "people of hiphop" category isn't as clearly definable as we
May 07th 2012
193
           RE: the "people of hiphop" category isn't as clearly definable as we
May 07th 2012
202
                RE: the "people of hiphop" category isn't as clearly definable as we
May 07th 2012
204
                RE: the "people of hiphop" category isn't as clearly definable as we
May 07th 2012
206
                     RE: the "people of hiphop" category isn't as clearly definable as we
May 07th 2012
207
                ehhhh, ok, but i don't think anybody is claiming teenyboppers
May 08th 2012
216
           about being known in white households
May 07th 2012
194
                RE: about being known in white households
May 07th 2012
195
                LOFL
May 07th 2012
196
                RE: LOFL
May 07th 2012
197
                RE: LOFL
May 07th 2012
201
                     RE: LOFL
May 07th 2012
208
                RE: LOFL
May 07th 2012
200
                     K
May 07th 2012
212
                          RE: K
May 07th 2012
213
                               maybe your getting confused because of the amount
May 08th 2012
217
                               Not confused at all. You and Philpot are the two i've been talking to
May 08th 2012
218
                               Good discussion
May 08th 2012
221
                Aha
May 07th 2012
199
                RE: about being known in white households
May 07th 2012
203
                     RE: about being known in white households
May 07th 2012
210
Pharrell/ The Neptunes, Just Blaze, Kanye West
May 07th 2012
211
RE: Pharrell/ The Neptunes, Just Blaze, Kanye West
May 08th 2012
214
      There are people
May 09th 2012
235
For producers:
May 08th 2012
222
RE: For producers:
May 08th 2012
224
I, for one, am glad you made this thread.
May 08th 2012
225
      the faggots that are incapable of objectivity are the 1s w/ pulled up sk...
May 08th 2012
227
      dude, you show no objectivity whatsoever
May 09th 2012
232
      i have not ONCE challenged the legitimacy...
May 09th 2012
233
           RE: i have not ONCE challenged the legitimacy...
May 09th 2012
234
                fam i pointed out clearly his impact on rap
May 09th 2012
236
                     RE: fam i pointed out clearly his impact on rap
May 09th 2012
237
      I love Madlib, don't take it personal, homie.
May 09th 2012
238
           define "the game"
May 09th 2012
239
                RE: define "the game"
May 09th 2012
240
                     word up
May 09th 2012
241
      RE: I, for one, am glad you made this thread.
May 08th 2012
231
Dilla? He just seemed more prominent in the 2000's than in the 1990's.
May 08th 2012
226
Dilla and Madlib
May 09th 2012
242
      RE: Dilla and Madlib
May 10th 2012
243

-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Wed May-02-12 03:48 PM

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1. "Even 50 is arguable. Lil Wayne is but does he count as 90's?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Hello, does 50 count as 90's since that's when we first heard him?

T.I.....eh, probably not legend. Ludacris had the talent to do so, but didn't.

Thing is, Jay-Z is probably gonna be seen as biggest legend ever, and yea he came out in the 90's, but his 2000's work is what's really putting him there....so I wouldn't just say "last decade produced NO legends" if you get me. Same with MJ coming out in the 60's, but the 80's REAAAAAAAAAALLY making him.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42118 posts
Wed May-02-12 03:49 PM

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2. "BUSDRIVER"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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judono
Member since Nov 11th 2004
4417 posts
Wed May-02-12 07:47 PM

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55. "underground ya. might as well put Living Legends crew on too"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

-murs biggest and best years were early 00's
-eLigh is underrated as a sonofabitch
-the grouch
-lucky
etc.

then if ur taLking project bLowed, some peopLe might say abstract rude is tighter then bus. and more legendary. some peopLe .


i'd say p.u.t.s /peopLe under the stairs are Legendary based on 3 of there aLbums from the beginning of the 00's. thes one is underrated as fuck too on the production.


* * * * =========
* * * * =========
* * * * =========
==============
==============

  

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CondoM
Member since Aug 20th 2006
9872 posts
Wed May-02-12 08:57 PM

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77. "Don't you need to have some kind of impact to be a legend?"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

The only places he's made an impact are my recycle bin and some 14 year old white swedish kids last.fm

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Wed May-02-12 03:56 PM

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3. "It depends who you ask. Us 80's babies are a tough sell"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Because this isn't OUR generation, so the people who we don't consider legends might very well be so to someone 10 years younger.

I'd think T.I., 50, Wayne, Kanye, and now Ross (I know, I know) are the ones who that crowd would consider.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16352 posts
Wed May-02-12 04:02 PM

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4. "I agree on Kanye. Is 50 getting the BDK pass?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Wed May-02-12 04:07 PM

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5. "Perhaps. There can be no denying his influence or impact, however short"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Wed May-02-12 04:24 PM

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6. "RE: Perhaps. There can be no denying his influence or impact, however sh..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Influenced can't be denied...I agree

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
7273 posts
Wed May-02-12 04:32 PM

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7. "Um... so are you putting Eminem in the 90's or 2000's???"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people can dislike him, but he's legendary status...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16352 posts
Wed May-02-12 04:37 PM

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8. "I guess he can be included in the post 2000 class"
In response to Reply # 7
Wed May-02-12 04:37 PM by Nick Has a Problem..

  

          

Even though he debuted in 99. He's definitely a legend though.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Wed May-02-12 04:44 PM

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10. "Yea, same as Wayne and Jay to me. And how Drake might be for"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

next decade...he first came out in 09 but in 20 years we'll probably identify him with the 2010's

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

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King Tuck
Member since Jan 31st 2012
50 posts
Mon May-07-12 06:25 PM

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205. "Gotta disagree on Jay"
In response to Reply # 10


          

He released arguably his best album creatively (Reasonable Doubt) and his biggest selling record (Vol. 2 HKL) both before 2000.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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219. "I'd agree that RD is arguable...many folks say Blueprint"
In response to Reply # 205


  

          

>He released arguably his best album creatively (Reasonable
>Doubt) and his biggest selling record (Vol. 2 HKL) both before
>2000.

But still, he wasn't a "legend" at the end of 1999 at all. If he had died in 99, I doubt ANYBODY would have been calling him the best rapper ever. It took his 2000's work and consistency to give him that claim.

------------------------------

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Tue May-08-12 03:08 PM

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220. "RE: I'd agree that RD is arguable...many folks say Blueprint"
In response to Reply # 219


  

          

The blueprint and the black album pretty much solidified Jay.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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229. "Yep. A lotta folks claim they were down when RD dropped but nah"
In response to Reply # 220
Tue May-08-12 09:30 PM by -DJ R-Tistic-

  

          

They need more people

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Wed May-02-12 06:40 PM

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29. "RE: Um... so are you putting Eminem in the 90's or 2000's???"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

Eminem is a legend...I guess 2000's

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
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9. "T.I.?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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12. "nope he pissed his shot away by being a dumb nigga."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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14. "Low key, he started to decline before jail though"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Perception
Member since Dec 26th 2003
1162 posts
Wed May-02-12 06:41 PM

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30. "yup, T.I. vs T.I.P. was when I got off the train"
In response to Reply # 14


          

it was way too inconsistent.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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36. "yeah but i think he could've held it steady"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

if not critically then commercially if he wasnt a jailbird.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Menphyel7
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101. "yep Tip is a legend he change the game"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

look at all the trap rappers that came after tip.

IF no tip no Jeezy and he is a legend in itself.

3 classics depending on who you ask.

yall stop it.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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Thu May-03-12 11:46 AM

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109. "RE: yep Tip is a legend he change the game"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

When I think of Legend, I think of KRS or Run DMC

I don't look at Tip and Jeezy like them. But thats just me..

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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11. "Wayne, Em. Drake will get there, but the heads will be maaaaaaaad"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-02-12 05:24 PM by BrooklynWHAT

  

          

Officer Ricky gon have niggas mad too.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
7273 posts
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13. "explain how Em isn't already there..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

And as much as I dislike it, explain how Wayne isn't already there...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
79766 posts
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32. "i should've broken that up better"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

wayne and em are already there.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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38. "And you're right about Ross..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

I'm salty as fuck people get hyped over this dude's music...


It just don't hit me like that... I skip songs on albums as soon as I hear his grunt...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130749 posts
Wed May-02-12 06:31 PM

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27. "eh. at this point, if Drake keeps his lane or even better"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

"Kanyes Out" in a few years, it'll be undeniable.

>Officer Ricky gon have niggas mad too.

he's already there IMO... dude ironically is the "50" of now, and filled a LONG standing void.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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33. "Ross is missing that one smash album i think"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

his discog is solid but he's missing something to punctuate his career.
who knows, in 5 years maybe we'll look back and it wont even matter that he doesnt have a smash album.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Ezzsential
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Wed May-02-12 05:44 PM

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15. "talib kweli"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


semantics softer than couples at wedding alters
this cops and robbers
and u cant hold a candle
rip ur antlers off and hang them on my mantle
str8 rambo--rocket science wouldnt even try it
these dudes cant compare their focus is on a diet~me

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
7273 posts
Wed May-02-12 05:51 PM

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17. "underground legend who will be appreciated by many..."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

But I don't think he fits the mold of artist this post is about...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
17959 posts
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20. "Nope. He wasn't popular enough. Mos Def could have been one,"
In response to Reply # 17


          

but his chance came and went after 2001.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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Ezzsential
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209. "talib kweli is the only classic lp i can think"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

of in the 2000's well one of the only classics i can think of...
reflection eternal...

semantics softer than couples at wedding alters
this cops and robbers
and u cant hold a candle
rip ur antlers off and hang them on my mantle
str8 rambo--rocket science wouldnt even try it
these dudes cant compare their focus is on a diet~me

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15745 posts
Wed May-02-12 05:48 PM

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16. "y'all won't like it but Drake and 40 are gonna be hella influential"
In response to Reply # 0


          

also, Ross' ear for music will be too

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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18. "They definitely will... I wish Drake would embrace it more..."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Dude is too worried about what others think of him... Drake needs to quit all this tough guy shit he tries to portray... He needs to embrace that sound 40 brings and make some meaningful songs or at least songs that people can relate to... He should still make fun records... I'm not saying become a bitch, but don't act like you're killin anyone or giving orders LIKE THAT... He also really needs to get off Wayne's balls... Why did I see Drake live a few months back and I heard 3 wayne verses that night... Wayne wasn't at the show... I'm not trying to hear that shit...


I look forward to more collabs with him and The Weeknd...


fuck Rick Ross... He will be remembered as a legendary liar and someone who picks great beats...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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40. "ross is a rapper. They all lie"
In response to Reply # 18


          

hell all entertainers do..its their job, in a way.

That being said, the music he makes/beats he chooses has ushered in some really fly developments in the sound of hiphop

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
7273 posts
Wed May-02-12 07:06 PM

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42. "No doubt... I just can't fuck with him..."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

I just can't do it... But yeah, the beats are dope...

>hell all entertainers do..its their job, in a way.
>
>That being said, the music he makes/beats he chooses has
>ushered in some really fly developments in the sound of
>hiphop

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed May-02-12 06:07 PM

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19. "so, to be a "legend" you have to be a pop star, right?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that's what i'm getting from this post

how sad

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Wed May-02-12 06:16 PM

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21. "You have to have impact on a major scale"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

All of the greats from the 80's and 90's had it so why should it change for this decade?

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-02-12 06:21 PM

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23. "so you have to be a pop star to have large scale influence?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

i vehemently disagree

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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24. "Depends on who you consider a pop star"
In response to Reply # 23
Wed May-02-12 06:26 PM by Nick Has a Problem..

  

          

If you consider Rakim, KRS, Slick Rick, Nas and Biggie pop stars then yes.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed May-02-12 06:29 PM

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26. "but all the names folks dropping as 00's "legends" are pop stars"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

you know that's my point, why duck it?

what are yall afraid of admitting?

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Wed May-02-12 06:44 PM

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31. "RE: but all the names folks dropping as 00's "legends" are pop stars"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

Come on dude! Kanye and 50 Cent didnt start off as pop stars. Kanye was backpack nigga and 50 was hardcore mixtape MC...stop it...Eminem was a battle rapper ...all dropped hot music, influence etc..

you act like they came out pop..

hell jay-z started with jaz now he sell out concerts in 2hours...what does that mean?

give credit where its due my G..this post is easy to see where i was going

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed May-02-12 07:32 PM

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46. "theyre pop stars NOW so ur post is pointless"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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Thu May-03-12 06:48 AM

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100. "RE: theyre pop stars NOW so ur post is pointless"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

There is nothing pointless about the post. Read it without your personal feelings towards of few artist.

There is a huge difference between Great/Popular Artist and legend.

Another simple example b/c this post isn't that hard

Ludacris is a VERY popular Artist

Dr. Dre is a Legend in the Genre, pushed the Genre and artist after him

If you cant understand that simple difference...I dont know what to tell you..

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Wed May-02-12 07:01 PM

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39. "Who do you consider a legend in the past decade?"
In response to Reply # 26
Wed May-02-12 07:03 PM by Nick Has a Problem..

  

          

The game has changed so much that it's hard to determine what's the criteria for being considered a legend/great. Rap is pretty much pop now so unless you're naming under the radar cats, I don't know. I grew up in a different era so I let the young people decide who their legends are. I don't love hip hop anymore. Haven't since 97

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
7273 posts
Wed May-02-12 07:04 PM

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41. "In the 2000's, hip hop = pop"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

be mad...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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44. "it cant possibly make me mad bc it's patently FALSE"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

hiphop is pop...at times...but it is MUCH bigger than that as evedenced by the gigs snd gigs of music we all have on our CPUs

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Otis Oliver Ocean
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
1471 posts
Tue May-08-12 09:00 PM

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228. "Hip Hop is more popular than it was back in the day."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

Back in the early 90s you could have HUGE influence in Hip Hop and not
have influence on pop culture. That's not impossible now but it IS less
likely.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu May-03-12 02:16 PM

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112. "my man "
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

you know damn well KRS, Ra and Slick AINT POP Stars. headz def know who they are, they make appearances in popular venues, but go to a near by soccer game, softball game, a starbucks, barnes and noble and ask them moms if they know who they are and you will hear crickets.

Big and NAS are popular.

Wayne, Em, early2000 50 those are pop stars

yall knwo damn well what Phil is getting at

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Thu May-03-12 03:34 PM

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122. "RE: my man "
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

I didn't know what he was talking about. The topic was about legends/greats. He brought the pop star topic to the table. I named a few people I considered legends from the past. That's all I did. Rap is pop now so you can love it or hate. Apparently he hates it. It ain't that serious fam.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Thu May-03-12 04:21 PM

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124. "explain what u mean by this statement"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

> Rap is pop now so you can love it or hate

cause it reads like ur fucking stupid and ignorant as fuck to the reality and depth of hiphop music, but ive seen u post enuf to kno ur not this stupid or hardheaded

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Thu May-03-12 09:41 PM

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144. "RE: explain what u mean by this statement"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

Pop is short for popular. Rap is pop(ular) now plain and simple. Biggie, Nas & Jay were pop in the late 90's. They got rotation on TRL and it don't get no more pop than that. If rap had been around 2 or 3 decades by the time LL, Rakim, KRS, Slick Rick, etc. came out they'd be pop too. Shit, Run-DMC and the Beastie Boys were pop IMO. Kanye, Drake, Wayne, Rick Ross are the face of rap right now hate it or love it. When the general public think of rap that's who they think of. We, the purists, dig a little deeper but the diamonds in the rough we champion aren't the face of rap music.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu May-03-12 10:15 PM

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147. "exactly, that's the point"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

pop doesn't equal legend. legend equals quality of art product (music) + originality/personality + influence on a mainstream or underground level; if we wanna get reductionist about it...

and obviously pop is short for popular, but you know damn well that pop as a genre is different than pop as an adjective for well known music artist. Pop the genre takes from all other genres: rap, rock, electronic, ect, and streamlines the sound to its most basic elements (which always isn't a bad thing) and tries to turn a profit off culture as a form of escapism and collective enjoyment. I would argue rap isn't pop RIGHT NOW, it was from 98-06, but NOW... NO!

And in here lies the irony: Jay, Em, Kanye are all indisputable legends IMO, BUT their influence on rap is largely tied to the industry trying to reproduce their templates ad nauseum. but there is a nuance and archive (discography) to those individuals artistry that validates their "legend status". It's also why IMO 50, Fab, T.I. ARE NOT legends though popular. as for Rawse we will see?

but to think mainstream influence is the most significant marker of legend status is just plain ignorant. Are we really going to claim Dilla, Madlib and El-P aren't fucn rap legends!?!!! come on! yall on that good white. THEIR INFLUENCE on the art of rap (and other genres) is undeniable

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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154. "RE: exactly, that's the point"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

>pop doesn't equal legend. legend equals quality of art
>product (music) + originality/personality + influence on a
>mainstream or underground level; if we wanna get reductionist
>about it...

okay then so what's the problem with Kanye, Wayne, Drake or Rick Ross being considered legends of today? they are the ones shaping the sound of rap music. they have their own style and sound and there are plenty of people who think there music is quality.

>
>and obviously pop is short for popular, but you know damn well
>that pop as a genre is different than pop as an adjective for
>well known music artist. Pop the genre takes from all other
>genres: rap, rock, electronic, ect, and streamlines the sound
>to its most basic elements (which always isn't a bad thing)
>and tries to turn a profit off culture as a form of escapism
>and collective enjoyment. I would argue rap isn't pop RIGHT
>NOW, it was from 98-06, but NOW... NO!

I see artists like Madonna or Celine Dion in the actual pop category. never seen rappers there. rap is rap. some you like. some you don't.

>
>And in here lies the irony: Jay, Em, Kanye are all
>indisputable legends IMO, BUT their influence on rap is
>largely tied to the industry trying to reproduce their
>templates ad nauseum. but there is a nuance and archive
>(discography) to those individuals artistry that validates
>their "legend status". It's also why IMO 50, Fab, T.I. ARE NOT
>legends though popular. as for Rawse we will see?

Is Em's discog good though? 50, Fab and TI aren't legends to you but Em is, why?

>
>but to think mainstream influence is the most significant
>marker of legend status is just plain ignorant. Are we really
>going to claim Dilla, Madlib and El-P aren't fucn rap
>legends!?!!! come on! yall on that good white. THEIR INFLUENCE
>on the art of rap (and other genres) is undeniable

Dilla had his hands in one of the most important groups in hip hop history. He also worked on Busta's projects when he was top notch. The Soulquarians were a movement. Dilla has impactful material under his belt. I love Madlib and El-P. Own a ton of their shit but I don't know if I can call them legends yet.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Sat May-05-12 11:23 AM

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161. "RE: exactly, that's the point"
In response to Reply # 154
Sat May-05-12 11:24 AM by astralblak

  

          

>okay then so what's the problem with Kanye, Wayne, Drake or
>Rick Ross being considered legends of today? they are the ones
>shaping the sound of rap music. they have their own style and
>sound and there are plenty of people who think there music is
>quality.

I said YE is a legend, IMO one of the GOATS. Also said time will tell with Rawse...

as for Drake he is a branch from Ye's tree for one; and two he's only two albums in. also there is that thing, you know that he has a whole nation of critics / "haters". What legends you know has as many detractors as Drake? really I'll wait for it? That says something about the quality of his work, even though he already has a throng of imitators from Lil' Sean to The Weeknd

same criticism could be made about Wayne, but even though he's clownish and borderline awful at times, i will concede legends status to him for this generation on rap style influence, and work ethic alone.

>I see artists like Madonna or Celine Dion in the actual pop
>category. never seen rappers there. rap is rap. some you like.
>some you don't.

Jay is not a pop artist? Eminem? 50 during his first two album run? right now Pitbull, Flo Rida aren't pop artist? k.

>Is Em's discog good though? 50, Fab and TI aren't legends to
>you but Em is, why?

I am NOT A FAN of Em's music. don't like one of his albums, yet I'm honest enough to know I'm in the minority with that opinion. There are those who claim that he has two and three classics. There has never been a rapper with so much fame and rap credibility as Em outside of Jay and Pac. And just like with Pac, even though I myself only like songs and wouldn't call myself a fan, their influence and "prestige" is matter of fact. On a pure rap for rap sakes level, Eminem is damn near in a class with only 2-5 other rappers.

as for the rest all only have ONE ALBUM that could be called "classic" and all were short flames amongst a sporadic discog. also their influence, all of them, 50, Fab, T.I. has led to some god awful rap music. so no, none fo them are legends.

>Dilla had his hands in one of the most important groups in hip
>hop history. He also worked on Busta's projects when he was
>top notch. The Soulquarians were a movement. Dilla has
>impactful material under his belt. I love Madlib and El-P. Own
>a ton of their shit but I don't know if I can call them
>legends yet.

not seeing EL and Madlib as legends is just plain ignorant or being hard-headed for the sake of holding onto to your weak premise. literally RJD2, Blockhead, Atmosphere, POS, 7L & Esoteric, Mr. Lif, C Ray Walz, Aesop Rock, etc. owe their whole lane/style to El-P. he begat all of them. shit, He's worked with, or had many signed to Def Jux at some point. that's not even getting into how forward thinking and unimitatable El's production style has been. you want to talk critically acclaimed underground classics? Funcrusher Plus, Cold Vein, Fantastic Damage, his hand in re-inventing Cage sound, ISWYD, and now Cancer 4 Cure... boy stop!

as for Lib... please, lets not do this

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
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119. "Nothing major about Kool G Rap's impact but he's a legend"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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163. "Nas says otherwise"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
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22. "Not necessarily, but you do have to be prominent (read: popular),"
In response to Reply # 19
Wed May-02-12 06:21 PM by Shaun Tha Don

          

have some kind of impact/influence on the genre and be reasonably credible.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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25. "popular to/amongst whom?"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>have some kind of impact/influence on the genre

what do you mean by "the genre"? every facet of the genre? just certain facets? what's the cutoff?

>and be
>reasonably credible.

credible how?

you use these words but you don't give any clue as to how they fit this context of what makes a "legend" (legend of hiphop music? legend of "the game", whatever the fuck that bullshit term even means?)

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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simpsycho
Member since May 29th 2007
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67. "You have to go pop to go plat these days"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

The biggest stars in hip-hop these days are pop stars, that's just how it is. If there is someone that doesn't fit that mold you'd like to name, go right ahead.

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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127. "smh"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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28. "okay, fine...convince the lesson that Madlib isnt a LEGEND"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i know yall know where i was headed with this

influence on a worldwide scale

thousands and thousands of stylistic children

deep impact on approaches to production

very versatile

at least one classic album

had considerable influence on the gawd dilla...

so make me an argument for rick ross being more legendary than the bad kid

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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Wed May-02-12 06:49 PM

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34. "RE: okay, fine...convince the lesson that Madlib isnt a LEGEND"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Madlib is DOPE

Not a legend

A Legend impacts the culture not just to purest but the mass amount of people who love the genre and people outside of it

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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50. "your criteria for a legend is CROCKER "
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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80. "RE: your criteria for a legend is CROCKER "
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

READ MY LAST COMMENT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE THREAD AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT I DEFINE AS A LEGENDD...SIMPLE

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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judono
Member since Nov 11th 2004
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Wed May-02-12 07:58 PM

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60. "dude. u r crazy. madLib is a fuckn Legend bro. underground Legend"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

u couLd say //// no cLiche here //// but u trying to say 'Lib isn't a Legend is Like saying zappa isn't a Legend-- even tho he was aLways heLLa beLow the radar too. he never had a hit, and reaLLy didn't conform to pop or mainstream radio either (teLL me the Last time u were Listening to a cLassic rock station and u ever heard one zappa song??? i have Never heard zappa on the radio, ever). but we aLL know zappa is the o.g.

so is madLib

* * * * =========
* * * * =========
* * * * =========
==============
==============

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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Wed May-02-12 06:50 PM

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35. "Convince me as many people will remember him as they will Kanye West.."
In response to Reply # 28
Wed May-02-12 06:50 PM by Crash85

  

          

Madlib will be/is an underground legend... Many people will appreciate his music years from now... But his legend won't be on the same level as someone like Kanye... it just won't...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-02-12 07:29 PM

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45. "what people?"
In response to Reply # 35
Wed May-02-12 07:30 PM by philpot

  

          

the thousands of fans and artists that are his children?

or ppl who religiously follow billboard #'s and TMZ?


>Madlib will be/is an underground legend...

so an "underground legend" isn't a legend?

Many people will
>appreciate his music years from now... But his legend won't be
>on the same level as someone like Kanye... it just won't...

SEE

you can't fuckin break it down bc YOU CANT FUCKIN EXPLAIN WHY

you just can't

see how that works?

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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Wed May-02-12 07:41 PM

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49. "The general public..."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

The fact you even want to argue it shows how contrary and stubborn you are...

not sure what world you live in that Madlib has had more influence, or will be remembered more than Kanye West...


Now you might want to argue that madlib is more talented than others... which would be fine... But a fuckin dude who lives down the street could be more talented than Lib, Ye and all these other people that have been listed, but do you know why the dude down the street is not a legend or even considered up to their level?????? BECAUSE NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT HIM! THEREFORE, HE WON'T GET THE SAME RECOGNITION! and that's what this post is about...

It's not a shot at dude's talent/skill level... It's just the truth...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-02-12 07:45 PM

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52. "why is the general public anywhere near a discussion of hip-hop..."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

legends?


that makes no fucking sense

the "general public" has no idea who Peter Phillips from Mt. Vernon NY is

but guess what?

HE IS LEGEND

now get more mad bc im "stubborn" and you cant possibly argue your side w/o admitting that, yes, for cash85er to consider one a legend, they must be a fucking pop star

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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Wed May-02-12 07:53 PM

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57. "How do you not understand that RECOGNITION is a big part of this??"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

Still confused on why you chose to argue with me?? I said Madlib is an underground legend... He's just not on the status Ye will be at...

and can you tell me who has had more influence, Ye or Lib??

who's music will be remembered more, Ye or Lib??

who has had more of cultural impact, Ye or Lib??


I really am interested in your answers...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-02-12 07:59 PM

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61. "RECOGNITION BY WHOM???"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

>Still confused on why you chose to argue with me?? I said
>Madlib is an underground legend... He's just not on the status
>Ye will be at...

what "status"? oh that's right...PEOPLE WHJO DON'T LIKE RAP LIKE KANYE, THAT MAKES HIM A LEGEND *SMH*

>and can you tell me who has had more influence, Ye or Lib??

influence on who and what?

for my buck Lib has had CONSIDERABLY more influence on *hiphop* than Kanye West

>who's music will be remembered more, Ye or Lib??

by whom?



>who has had more of cultural impact, Ye or Lib??

imact on whose culture? what culture? american popular culture? and that's how to judge what makes a HIPHOP artist legendary

yall's logic is not actually logic



>
>I really am interested in your answers...
>

my answer is that if this post was titled: who are the rap artists who were most popular on the pop charts over the last decade, i'd have no issue bc then it would actually be HONEST

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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Wed May-02-12 08:21 PM

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66. "RE: RECOGNITION BY WHOM???"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

>>Still confused on why you chose to argue with me?? I said
>>Madlib is an underground legend... He's just not on the
>status
>>Ye will be at...
>
>what "status"? oh that's right...PEOPLE WHJO DON'T LIKE RAP
>LIKE KANYE, THAT MAKES HIM A LEGEND *SMH*

YES! THAT MATTERS! Kanye has expanded Hip Hop's fan base! Those people who don't normally listen to rap that listen to Kanye are now more open to it... I'm sure you won't understand what I'm talking about though...


>
>>and can you tell me who has had more influence, Ye or Lib??
>
>influence on who and what?
>
>for my buck Lib has had CONSIDERABLY more influence on
>*hiphop* than Kanye West

That's great... Glad you're being stubborn on this... shows you're consistent and that you have no intention of acknowledging that Ye has had influence in not only hip hop, but in music.. There was never a time in 2000's that every rapper wanted a MadLib beat, but there was a time that everyone wanted a Kanye beat... I'm sure you won't understand what I'm talking about though...


>
>>who's music will be remembered more, Ye or Lib??
>
>by whom?

people... in future generations... will remember... Kanye West's music... more than they'll remember... Mad...Lib's... music...

I'm sure you won't understand what I'm talking about though...




>
>
>
>>who has had more of cultural impact, Ye or Lib??
>
>imact on whose culture? what culture? american popular
>culture? and that's how to judge what makes a HIPHOP artist
>legendary

Yes... that counts... And as much as you don't like to admit this, Hip Hop has had an impact on America's popular culture... Kinda like Jazz music... took a little bit of time, but it is definitely part of America's popular culture... I'm sure you won't understand what I'm talking about though...



>yall's logic is not actually logic
>
>
>
>>
>>I really am interested in your answers...
>>
>
>my answer is that if this post was titled: who are the rap
>artists who were most popular on the pop charts over the last
>decade, i'd have no issue bc then it would actually be HONEST
>

Did you understand anything that you just read??

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-02-12 08:38 PM

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72. "..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          


>YES! THAT MATTERS! Kanye has expanded Hip Hop's fan base!
>Those people who don't normally listen to rap that listen to
>Kanye are now more open to it... I'm sure you won't understand
>what I'm talking about though...
>

i understand. and 2 things:

1-you severely underestimate the reach and influence of artists who are HUGE by any real standard but who don't show up on pop charts, and 2-you severely overestimate the importance of what u talk abt here as far as determining who is a legend in HIPHOP




>>
>>>and can you tell me who has had more influence, Ye or Lib??
>>
>>influence on who and what?
>>
>>for my buck Lib has had CONSIDERABLY more influence on
>>*hiphop* than Kanye West
>
>That's great... Glad you're being stubborn on this... shows
>you're consistent and that you have no intention of
>acknowledging that Ye has had influence in not only hip hop,
>but in music..

"has had"?

duh

Kanye "has had" HUGE influence...what i challenge is the factual nature of the assumption that Lib hasnt to the same extent or possibly more, in hiphop, and alsiin new directions in music

Madvillainy spawned more artistic clones than College Dropout

Has Kanye made a jazz album? Do you think no one is influenced by Lib's jazz work? his beatdigging is THE STANDARD for hiphop

There was never a time in 2000's that every
>rapper wanted a MadLib beat

for my $, your wrong and talking out your ass

>I'm sure you won't understand
>what I'm talking about though...
>
>

pretty much

>>
>>>who's music will be remembered more, Ye or Lib??
>>
>>by whom?
>
>people... in future generations... will remember... Kanye
>West's music... more than they'll remember... Mad...Lib's...
>music...

wrong. you can not base this assumption on the situation on the "ground" (or pop charts) in 2012...it shows a lack of understanding of history

>I'm sure you won't understand what I'm talking about though...
>
>

basically

>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>who has had more of cultural impact, Ye or Lib??
>>
>>imact on whose culture? what culture? american popular
>>culture? and that's how to judge what makes a HIPHOP artist
>>legendary
>
>Yes... that counts... And as much as you don't like to admit
>this, Hip Hop has had an impact on America's popular
>culture...

*smh*

and with this (incorrect) assumption our time here is done and i bid you a fair evening

lol

Kinda like Jazz music... took a little bit of time,
>but it is definitely part of America's popular culture... I'm
>sure you won't understand what I'm talking about though...
>
>
>
>>yall's logic is not actually logic

^^




>>
>>
>>>
>>>I really am interested in your answers...
>>>
>>
>>my answer is that if this post was titled: who are the rap
>>artists who were most popular on the pop charts over the
>last
>>decade, i'd have no issue bc then it would actually be
>HONEST
>>
>
>Did you understand anything that you just read??
>

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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Wed May-02-12 08:51 PM

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76. "I get it now... Your world is The Lesson... n/m"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
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Sun May-06-12 08:02 AM

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172. "if you take your logic to its ends..."
In response to Reply # 57
Sun May-06-12 08:03 AM by howardlloyd

  

          

elvis is the greatest legend of em all...

lol

is kanye more of a legend than dilla?? (this is the key question right here)

cuz...if kanye is over dilla...all bets are off. (dilla & preem are basically sub-genres at this point...kanye is imitated but he dont have his own production genre )

"history is written by the victors" (victory = "success" in this example)

but that dont mean there aren't other histories...

the main point phil is making...is one that i have been screaming for years

OUTSIDERS to the culture (pop music consumers) DO NOT get to dictate hip hops rules...

to me this is the line in the sand^^^^^^

its the people who grew up on hip hop pre viacom/clear channel dominance and those that came after

there are ALOT of hip hop legends that aren't POPULAR in any way

T LA ROCK is not a legend??? how about busy bee???

lol....cats is clowns

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Sun May-06-12 08:16 AM

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173. "RE: if you take your logic to its ends..."
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

That's true but you can see their influence on mainstream hip hop. The greats that came after them will acknowledge them as influences in their careers. Y'all keep bringing up cats from the beginnings of hip hop when it was seen as a fad. The guys at the forefront today are more popular than the guys of the past because rap as a whole is more popular now. It's not a fair comparison. I seen a cat mention G Rap. G Rap is a legend because one of the greats, Nas, will tell you himself that G Rap influenced him. Madlib is dope. I dig a lot of his music but name me some people he has influenced? That's pretty much where the whole debate went once Phil came in.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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Thu May-03-12 02:13 PM

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111. "RE: why is the general public anywhere near a discussion of hip-hop..."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

lol...most hip hop fans dont know Pete Rock "real name" or DJ Premo..lol...give me a break

If you say Pete Rock...people know who he is...

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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125. "yeah...youre just either not a smart person AT ALL"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

or youre just playing a role

i feel bad for u if its the former

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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37. "madlib is a cult figure."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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47. "so?"
In response to Reply # 37
Wed May-02-12 07:39 PM by philpot

  

          

>

how is his cult any diiferent than the cult of kanye west except that his ACTUAL MUSIC is more important than his image of shenanigans?

oh thats right

ppl that dint really fuck w/ hiphop like kanye west

i be forgettin that thats what matters and makes one a "legend" in the 00's, the legends from back in the day were legends bc of the RAP MUSIC they made for ppl who actually like RAP MUSIC

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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51. "you could at least pretend to be objective about it"
In response to Reply # 47
Wed May-02-12 07:44 PM by BrooklynWHAT

  

          

instead of letting your personal feelings hold your judgment hostage.

kanye is a legend
madlib is the type of cat they make Unsung for. he's a cult figure.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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54. "He's really mad that a very large group has to actually LIKE one's music..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

for them to be considered a legend...


He would hate if Madlib was as popular as Kanye West...

or just be one of those people that champion his catalog from before he got big and consider the rest trash...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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63. "a very large group DOES like Madlib's work"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

and you have to be blind, dumb or covering your eyes and ears (then there's that good ol willful ignorance) not to know and understand this

he is wildly popular and successful at what he does


>for them to be considered a legend...
>
>
>He would hate if Madlib was as popular as Kanye West...

bull fucking shit

please PLEASE point out in this post where i hated on Kanye West or said he wasn't a legend?

and here's a hint: indicating madlib is better or more influential does not mean i hated of said he wasnt a legend

>or just be one of those people that champion his catalog from
>before he got big and consider the rest trash...

oh that's right....people aren't allowed their opinions unless they agree w/ yours

my apologies oh great hiphop arbiter

the funniest thing abt u clowns is u run around claiming everyone else is fascist and forcing their opinions of what is "real" on others but yall cats are MUCH more guilty of fascist narrow minded views of what is and isnt "acceptable" for others to think and believe when it comes to this hiphop shit

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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65. "phil catchin feelings over this shit."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

like we saying madlib is swizzy tier or something.

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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68. "even haters like yall know better than that"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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70. "no one here has hated on madlib... n/m"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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75. "its a popular term, ppl throw it around wildly so why not?"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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92. "Only in Hip-Hop have I heard this argument..."
In response to Reply # 54


          

the Stooges and Velvet Underground are legendary rock-bands who only sold a few thousand copies while active. Sun Ra and Ornette Coleman are legendary jazz-artists who even by jazz-standards weren't popular at all.

Now that I think of it, Miles Davis 60's albums with the Wayne Shorter-Hancock-Williams quintet sold in the range of 20000-30000 copies each, at a time LONG before illegal downloading.

And in Hip-Hop, isn't Ultramagnetics "Critical Beatdown" a legendary album and them a legendary group? That people argue this is proof of how pop Hip-Hop has become...

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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93. "you just listed artists with huge fan bases..."
In response to Reply # 92
Thu May-03-12 04:03 AM by Crash85

  

          

and artists who have made music that has influenced many popular artists...


so..... as of RIGHT NOW... because I can't see the future... Madlib is an "underground legend"... a cult figure, if you will... His music has influenced a lot of artists who many people haven't heard of... We have, but the majority of people haven't...

A little different than Kanye West who changes whats popular every time he releases an album... not saying he re-invents the wheel or it's even something brand new, but the fact he's made 5 albums that all sound different and they're popular when they come out... Yes, 808's went along with the trend of people using autotune, but a rapper using autotune a whole album and it being accepted had not been done... as far as I can remember... and if you can't see the influence Kanye has had on music, especially in hip hop (from the artists to the sound), I don't know what to say to you...

yes, hip hop = pop now... it's not a bad thing... purist real hip hop snobs can be mad about it, or they can appreciate, or not, all the different artists hip hop has to offer and not kid themselves by saying madlib is gonna be ranked up there with Kanye West (in the eyes of the general public, think outside the Lesson) when it's all said and done...

Now we don't have to care about what the general public thinks... We can like who we like and call whoever we feel is a legend, legend... But from reading the OP, it doesn't look like Madlib fits with what he's talking about... RIGHT NOW

all of my arguments are based off of what the OP's definition of a legend is...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
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117. "Didn't you see where he explained they don't really have that big a fan ..."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

He's proved it by mentioning albums sales, even someone like Miles Davis doesn't have a huge fan base when compared to pop stars. It has nothing to do with the number of ppl, it's the impact it had on the ppl it did. Velvet Underground may be a lot more well known but their album sales ain't much better.

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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132. "He explained their fan base then..."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

not now...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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MikeDinosaur
Member since Dec 26th 2011
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Thu May-03-12 07:46 PM

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134. "RE: He explained their fan base then..."
In response to Reply # 132
Thu May-03-12 07:50 PM by MikeDinosaur

          

Even now, two million people have seen Accordion. Tell me that many people have EVER heard a Sun Ra song

Edit: And legends are defined mostly by their peers and other musicians. Hammer sold millions, but nobody making rap is trying to be the next hammer, and that's why he's not a legend. That's part of the reason it *is* premature to define legends from the last decade, but the number of producers Madlib's given birth to

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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139. "why do you guys keep bringing up record sales??"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

did I bring up sales??

I know I brought up impact and influence...

and why do you guys keep bringing up youtube???

Are youtube views that important?? And is 2 million a lot for having a video up 4 years?? And didn't Adult Swim promote the hell out of it?? Sory... I'm just confused at what you're trying to prove with this youtube argument I keep hearing...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
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Thu May-03-12 08:26 PM

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141. "Come on don't hide behind language "
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

>did I bring up sales??

Nope but you went on about pop vs underground and how pop = relevant and underground = nobody cares.

>I know I brought up impact and influence...
>
>and why do you guys keep bringing up youtube???

>Are youtube views that important?? And is 2 million a lot for
>having a video up 4 years?? And didn't Adult Swim promote
>the hell out of it?? Sory... I'm just confused at what you're
>trying to prove with this youtube argument I keep hearing...
and artists who have made music that has influenced many popular artists...

B/c you're saying ppl don't know who he is, and he's showing you it's more than just 50 ppl that come out to each show he does. A lot of ppl would download his stuff so album sales are the best determining factor. He does mostly instrumental or unconventional type of hip hop so no matter how good it ain't ending up on the radio

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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143. "my argument has been impact and influence..."
In response to Reply # 141
Thu May-03-12 08:41 PM by Crash85

  

          

edit: and there must be recognition...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
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Thu May-03-12 10:32 PM

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148. "Well Madlib has plenty of recognition"
In response to Reply # 143
Thu May-03-12 10:55 PM by zuma1986

  

          

Madvillian was on almost every best of list for that year and of that decade. So was The Unseen

He was invited to the Blue Notes archives to make a remix project.

He's got recognition from his peers http://vimeo.com/31226393 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRzkGVW7z0Q

He's definitely had an impact on music. Everyone from Flying Lotus to Blu to Hot Chip have said he's influenced them.

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
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Thu May-03-12 08:21 PM

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140. "Then? They still haven't gone platinum dude"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

They haven't had retroactive chart success. They've picked up a few sales as the years went by but they didn't cash mega checks then or now.

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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Thu May-03-12 08:29 PM

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142. "could be people are just picking up their best of comps..."
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

some people are fans and just don't own their music... No artists that you're a fan of, but you don't own any of their albums?? I'm sure you can name a few...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
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Sun May-06-12 08:26 AM

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174. "RE: He's really mad that a very large group has to actually LIKE one's m..."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

so u saying T LA Rock, Busy Bee, and Original jazzy jay aint legends?

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Sun May-06-12 09:34 AM

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175. "RE: He's really mad that a very large group has to actually LIKE one's m..."
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

>so u saying T LA Rock, Busy Bee, and Original jazzy jay aint
>legends?

again, why are y'all bringing up cats from hip hop's beginnings? You can see their influence on hip hop by the guys that came after them and mention them as influences.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
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177. "its attack on the logic that says"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

if something is not popular its not legendary

...it be just as easy for me to use dilla dawg

cuz no matter how u cut it...brother IS NOT known like that...and him being a legend isnt really arguable

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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178. "RE: its attack on the logic that says"
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

Look at Dilla's resume though. ATCQ, Busta, the Soulquarians movement. How could he not be a legend?

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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183. "but Dilla aint the only one "
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

me, Phil, HL and others have brought up that you can say that about.

above in our convo, I laid out why El-P is a legend. you've yet to refute why he isn't

and you keep saying Madlib isn't one, which is laughable. he has contributed to the re-invention of Erykah's sound post Mama's Gun, provided Talib and Mos with some of their best material post 2002 in their very sporadic catalogues (and i know you are one who doesn't like The Ecstatic, but whatever).

Madlib was also THE sound of a particular form of the west coast underground from 98-05. he was dead in the middle of a sound that dominated the speakers of those of us who had fallen out of love with the direction mainstream rap took in those years. He, Egon and Wolf have basically shaped the diggin' culture and alternative sound spaces in LA. folks from Flying Lotus to Tyler the Creator have named Lib as one of their favorite producers/influences. Weldon Irvin and Mario Van Peebles have even commented on how great and talented Madlib is.

lastly, while y'all claim that popularity is part of it, so is critical acclaim, and Madlib has received it from The Los Angeles Times, Wax Poetics, Rolling Stone, The Fader, Pitchfork, The New Yorker, etc. he's not as UN-recognized as some of you are claiming he is. Shit the Blue Note owners CAME TO HIM, not the other way around. Madvillian sold 250,000 copies NOT 10,000 or 20,000 like some of the newer rappers we currently ride for.

Lib IS A LEGEND. to say no is an agenda, ignorance or that fuck boy shit

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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187. "RE: but Dilla aint the only one "
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

>me, Phil, HL and others have brought up that you can say that
>about.
>
>above in our convo, I laid out why El-P is a legend. you've
>yet to refute why he isn't
>
>and you keep saying Madlib isn't one, which is laughable. he
>has contributed to the re-invention of Erykah's sound post
>Mama's Gun, provided Talib and Mos with some of their best
>material post 2002 in their very sporadic catalogues (and i
>know you are one who doesn't like The Ecstatic, but whatever).
>
>
>Madlib was also THE sound of a particular form of the west
>coast underground from 98-05. he was dead in the middle of a
>sound that dominated the speakers of those of us who had
>fallen out of love with the direction mainstream rap took in
>those years. He, Egon and Wolf have basically shaped the
>diggin' culture and alternative sound spaces in LA. folks from
>Flying Lotus to Tyler the Creator have named Lib as one of
>their favorite producers/influences. Weldon Irvin and Mario
>Van Peebles have even commented on how great and talented
>Madlib is.
>
>lastly, while y'all claim that popularity is part of it, so is
>critical acclaim, and Madlib has received it from The Los
>Angeles Times, Wax Poetics, Rolling Stone, The Fader,
>Pitchfork, The New Yorker, etc. he's not as UN-recognized as
>some of you are claiming he is. Shit the Blue Note owners CAME
>TO HIM, not the other way around. Madvillian sold 250,000
>copies NOT 10,000 or 20,000 like some of the newer rappers we
>currently ride for.
>
>Lib IS A LEGEND. to say no is an agenda, ignorance or that
>fuck boy shit

It's funny to me because y'all act as if I didn't say I'm a fan of both Madlib and El-P. It's cool though. I'm done with this.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
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185. "RE: its attack on the logic that says"
In response to Reply # 178
Sun May-06-12 04:13 PM by howardlloyd

  

          

>Look at Dilla's resume though. ATCQ, Busta, the Soulquarians
>movement. How could he not be a legend?

most people dont like dilla's tribe albums...
he made fat joints with busta...but none of busta's well known joints...
and if you go to a barbershop in any hood and ask who the soulquarians are ::crickets::

he is not popular... people do not know him like that.

he is close to you...

madlib is a legend...

he produced ghostface and de la soul and doom. the nigga made madvillian for crying out loud lol

imo...anyone who sells >100,000 indie is a legend... atmosphere included (lol)

edit: didnt see the above post til just now... they did a quarter mil on madvillian???? holy shit

http://howardlloyd.bandcamp.com

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-02-12 07:54 PM

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58. "why should *i* pretend when yall are incapable of keeping..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

ur own biases out of it?

yall are being NO LESS OBJECTIVE than i am, you just of the bullshit opinion that pop status MEANS ANYTHING when discerning legendary statis for hip hop artists



>instead of letting your personal feelings hold your judgment
>hostage.

FOH

i am no more guilty of this than yall and you KNOW it

if yall werent BIASED you could fix ur fingers to type one name that isn't a POP star but your biases PREVENT U FROM SEEING REALITY

ie the REALITY that Otis from Oxnard has a global fanbase of probably millions, on an indie label, and has more stylistic children who are actively making hip hop than any of these pop stars u claim are so influential

>
>kanye is a legend
>madlib is the type of cat they make Unsung for. he's a cult
>figure.


so an unsung figure can't be a LEGEND?

FOH w/ this narrow, biased and subjective view of what makes one a legend

(also note i have not directly challenged the legitimacy of even laughable cats yall have dropped, like ross, as legends...)


________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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69. "Yep. End of story and goodnight."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-02-12 08:45 PM

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74. "this "objective" shit w/ yall is JUST like how the GOP plays it"
In response to Reply # 69
Wed May-02-12 08:46 PM by philpot

  

          

you pull the center to towards your extreme and then bitch about objectivity when the person arguing's POV is no more extreme than your own

the radio is music's version of fox news

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
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Thu May-03-12 02:59 PM

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118. "^^^^^^ "
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

Too bad nobody will listen to this but it's true.

Ppl have been brainwashed to believe albums sales is everything when most ppl hate radio and the albums that get the most acclaim when they do Top 100 only sometimes do well.

Is Robert Johnson not a legend? Frank Zappa? Kool G Rap?

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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131. "I'm not even in it. I just agreed that Madlib is extremely Unsung"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

And there is a difference.

Unsung types can be a LOT more talented than the "Legend"...but Legends do have to be known, at LEAAAAST by name only. Like even Dilla is more known namewise than Madlib, and folks who are super radio/commercial heads will know 4-5 of his songs if you tell them "Ay, he did ______" but that's not the case with Madlib. Doesn't mean that people who aren't aware of him are brainwashed, have bad taste, limited view....just means they don't know about him. He might be the most Unsung cat since the 90's.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
7273 posts
Thu May-03-12 07:18 PM

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133. "RE: I'm not even in it. I just agreed that Madlib is extremely Unsung"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

>And there is a difference.
>
>Unsung types can be a LOT more talented than the
>"Legend"...but Legends do have to be known, at LEAAAAST by
>name only. Like even Dilla is more known namewise than Madlib,
>and folks who are super radio/commercial heads will know 4-5
>of his songs if you tell them "Ay, he did ______" but that's
>not the case with Madlib. Doesn't mean that people who aren't
>aware of him are brainwashed, have bad taste, limited
>view....just means they don't know about him. He might be the
>most Unsung cat since the 90's.

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Thu May-03-12 08:15 PM

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137. "Is DJ Quik a legend or unsung?"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

I've seen him described as a West Coast legend but ain't nobody besides heads (Specifically ones up on their west coast history) can name even 2 or 3 of his songs.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Thu May-03-12 09:52 PM

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145. "West Coast legend, and unsung."
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

>I've seen him described as a West Coast legend but ain't
>nobody besides heads (Specifically ones up on their west coast
>history) can name even 2 or 3 of his songs.

Most "unsung" types are legends with their own cult following, whether it's regional, or a certain style, or even before/after the music itself was at it's peak.

If somebody from NY said "Quik ain't a legend, he's a nobody, I donno his shit" I'd take offense...but I'd actually get why he says it.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Fri May-04-12 08:46 AM

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152. "So would Madlib be an underground legend?"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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188. "Yep...and to me, I'd say a Kool G Rap is still more of a legend"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

Madlib is one of the top artists in the last 10-12 years that's part of the "real Hip Hop that doesn't even sniff radio play" side...while Kool G Rap was part of the era where he still got some play and all Rap fans at the time at LEAST knew him by name. Even though he was more early 90's, I think people 21-25 who are casual Rap fans still know him more so than Madlib.

Madlib is the type that folks either LOVE and nearly worship, or haven't heard of before....not many inbetweens.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Wed May-02-12 07:17 PM

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43. "Madlib is more important to his peers than he is to the people"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Which is great IMO because you want the respect of your peers more than anything. At least you should but I don't think he's a legend.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-02-12 07:40 PM

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48. "so only his peers made the Medicine Show a finacially viable project?"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

can you give me another artist who could release that amount of work in a year and it not basically ruin their entire bottom line?

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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quikfit
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Wed May-02-12 07:46 PM

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53. "He doesn't fit the criteria, has been doing his thing pre '00"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Don't get me wrong, I love all things Madlib.
Although he's done his most promentent work since the year 2000, he was doing producing for Tha Alkaholiks and doing the Lootpack thing during 199x.
So, doesn't fit what the OP was asking for.

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Soul music is bad, bad, bad!

  

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judono
Member since Nov 11th 2004
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Wed May-02-12 08:03 PM

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62. "madLib fits the criteria bro"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

he didn't surface as a 'soLo' artist untiL the 00's...

he reLeased 95% of his music after the year 2000. Lol.


that's Like saying Lebron James isn't the NBA poster chiLd of the 2000's because he was pLaying middLe school basketbaLL in the late 90's... c'mon bro! Lol

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quikfit
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108. "I personally feel he's a legend"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

I was just going off what the OP said, as criteria. He was active pre '00.
Again, I feel he has legendary status.
I own almost his entire catalogue. I think that says a lot. I don't like to waste cash on bad tunes.

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Soul music is bad, bad, bad!

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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64. "kanye west and 50 cent, yknow the 2 guys mentioned in the OP?"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

yeah they started out in the 90's too bro

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Wed May-02-12 08:35 PM

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71. "Madlib was rapping in the 90's though. 50 too. Not Kanye."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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73. "OMG SEROUSLY DUDE?!?!!?!!????"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Thu May-03-12 07:48 AM

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104. "i already knew where this was going when you started"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

I'm a fan of Madlib. I just don't consider him a legend. I'm sure years down the line he will get that Velvet Underground treatment though.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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judono
Member since Nov 11th 2004
4417 posts
Wed May-02-12 07:54 PM

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59. "100% madLib is THAT motherfuckn dude 4hiphop in 00's"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

peopLe wiLL hate now that everybody is rocking aLL this computer software to make beats and biting fLying Lotus and shit.

but madLib wiLL go down in the hiphop history books as the most infLuential and one of the most proLific ever in a 10 year span.... but unquestionabLy so for reaL underground hiphop.

he infLuenced an entire generation of producers, inspired 100's.. proLific as fuck. probabLy became a LittLe over-saturated at times -- and hence the haters... but madLib is my #1 vote for sure. undisputed.

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Thu May-03-12 04:13 AM

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94. "the Blue Note record certifies him IMO"
In response to Reply # 28
Thu May-03-12 04:13 AM by Dr Claw

  

          

it is just not everyday that a dude who makes his name in hip-hop is given unfettered access to the Blue Note masters and then makes an album on that label with them. I think that while he probably wouldn't say it was his greatest work himself, the fact that it even happened in the first place speaks to his impact and notability as an artist.

that being said I don't know if I can call him a 2000s Legend (even if the bulk of the work he has done to earn the "Legend" title was done in that decade). He will probably have a good 20+ years under his belt as an artist.

Madlib is a timeless artist within the hip-hop genre, particularly in its indie/underground strain. He is someone that will be continually written about and remembered long after he decides he's going to call it a day.

I liken him to free/avant-garde jazz artists who may have been given props in the most niche circles in the beginning, but today are revered as much as the "big names" of mainstream jazz.

I don't want to call him the Archie Schlepp of hip-hop because it's too imperfect a collaboration, but I think he holds similar reverence.

  

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Boogie Stimuli
Member since Sep 24th 2010
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Tue May-08-12 11:22 PM

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230. "^^This"
In response to Reply # 94


          

>it is just not everyday that a dude who makes his name in
>hip-hop is given unfettered access to the Blue Note masters
>and then makes an album on that label with them. I think that
>while he probably wouldn't say it was his greatest work
>himself, the fact that it even happened in the first place
>speaks to his impact and notability as an artist.

  

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GumDrops
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Sun May-06-12 09:39 AM

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176. "madlib is DEF a legend"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

same way dilla is undoubtedly a legend

the prob with this post is that it confuses 'most notable artists of a decade' with 'legend'

you can be a gamechanging artist, even an influential artist without being a legend

legend is an artist who affects people deeply

  

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judono
Member since Nov 11th 2004
4417 posts
Wed May-02-12 07:50 PM

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56. "MadLib is the biggest Legend from the 00's on hiphop"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


-madLib
-lil wayne didn't bLow aLL the way up tiL the 00's broke
-R.Kelly (he is a 90's Legend too, but he owned the 00's. his dopest shit was from the 00's)

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MikeDinosaur
Member since Dec 26th 2011
66 posts
Wed May-02-12 09:07 PM

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78. "RE: MadLib is the biggest Legend from the 00's on hiphop"
In response to Reply # 56


          

Seriously, this "the PEOPLE don't care about madlib, he's not a legend!" What the fuck are you talking about? When did the general listening public ever give a shit about KRS-One's music? His impact was on heads and other rappers, and he is a legend. I looooove Kanye, I think he's a genius, musically, but you guys act like Hammer is a bigger legend than Rakim.

If DOOM keeps up his run and doesn't drop a dud soon he'll be a legend. And the stuff that makes DOOM DOOM came out in the 2000s. You all almost act like it's a strike against the era we're living in that rappers haven't been flopping after a few releases the way Kane or a lot of the other 80s guys did. Some of the longevity we're seeing in rappers is pretty amazing. For my money Big Boi's last album was as good as anything he's done, and whatever era he's *from*, he released it a couple years ago. That's now. Same goes for Raekwon. Why are you complaining about it???

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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Wed May-02-12 09:21 PM

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79. "RE: MadLib is the biggest Legend from the 00's on hiphop"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

Sorry but even casual hip hop fans would know who a legend is. GREAT artist and LEGEND is two totally different things

Madlib and MF DOOM are not Hip Hop legends...............SORRY

I KNOW YOU ALL LOVE THEM ON OKAYPLAYER AND THEY ARE BOTH TALENTED AND DOPE AS HELL BUT..............NOT HIP HOP LEGENDS

RAKIM IS A HIP HOP LEGEND
KRS IS A HIP HOP LEGEND
DR. DRE IS A HIP HOP LEGEND

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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CondoM
Member since Aug 20th 2006
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Wed May-02-12 09:26 PM

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81. "Casual hip-hop fans don't have a fucking clue who KRS and Rakim are."
In response to Reply # 79
Wed May-02-12 09:32 PM by CondoM

  

          

They might have heard their names, but that'd be as far as it goes. By your standards, Dre, 2pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, Kanye, 50 and Eminem are the only legends (unless you want to count guys like Wayne and Drake).

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Wed May-02-12 09:31 PM

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82. "RE: Casual hip-hop fans don't have a fucking clue who KRS and Rakim are."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

A casual hip hop fan does know who krs is. Every chick I dated are and were casuals and knew who KRS, Rakim,BDK and even Kool g Rap were....these guys are legends and great at the art to the point chicks know what "Black Cop" is and the significance of the song...you arent giving casual fans enough credit. Some chicks and just casual fans in general know more about hip hop than people think even from a casual perspective. The point of the thread is not difficult to understand in regard to the angle I'm coming at. Lil Wayne put the work in for almost a decade and impact has been legendary. He grinded and worked. Did 1000000 features..and then gained even more success. Some kid will be an adult in 10 years and will say he is a legend and have a good argument. I believe the examples I gave throughout the thread are not reaching.

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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MikeDinosaur
Member since Dec 26th 2011
66 posts
Wed May-02-12 10:53 PM

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83. "RE: Casual hip-hop fans don't have a fucking clue who KRS and Rakim are."
In response to Reply # 82


          

Stop it. Your nominations are exclusively mutliple-platinum-selling artists. I mean 50 and Eminem both had albums that went diamond, Carter III was the biggest selling album of the year. To act like they're the only people the hip hop pantheon admits is absurd. KRS went gold a few times, back when people were still buying albums. But those albums are classics! Their status has nothing to do with some girls you dated's familiarity with Black Cop. But if we're going popularity, it's not solely measurable in album sales anymore. Madvillainy songs showed up in indie sampler albums that had nothing to do with rap. DOOM gets respect from Thom Yorke AND Nas. Accordion has almost two million hits on youtube. Madvillainy made every best of the decade list. Hip hop has room for different kinds of legends. Em is a legend! Doom and Madlib are just a different kind of legend!

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Thu May-03-12 03:27 PM

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120. "Dude you're a joke in this debate"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

>A casual hip hop fan does know who krs is. Every chick I
>dated are and were casuals and knew who KRS, Rakim,BDK and
>even Kool g Rap were

Please casual hip hop listeners have ZERO idea who Kool G Rap is. KRS-1 maybe, but probably not BDK or Rakim. And I don't count "I've heard the name but couldn't name a song" as knowing an artist.


>I believe
>the examples I gave throughout the thread are not reaching.

No but the ppl you're denying is. You're basing everything on YOUR personal taste as oppose to what's had impact. I'm not a Weezy fan but I can say he'll be considered a legend. Just like I'm not a Dead Kennedys fan but know they're punk legends. Success on a large scale has NOTHING to do with being a legend. Sun Ra had nothing even close to a song being liked by the masses, casual listeners or even regular fans of jazz wouldn't necessarily know him. But there's no doubt in my mind that he's a legend.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu May-03-12 02:26 PM

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113. "BULLSHIT!!!"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

casual rap fans DO NOT KNOW WHO KRS ONE AND RAKIM AND BDK AND SLICK RICK ARE. sorry no they don't.

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue May-08-12 05:27 PM

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223. "It's clear that this is an age thing"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

Casual fans over a certain age(late 20s and older) know who Rakim, Kane, KRS, Slick Rick, etc. are.

Younger casual rap fans dont.

Younger rap fans from Australia need to log off.

That's all here.

  

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tandmfam
Member since Apr 20th 2010
1614 posts
Wed May-02-12 11:09 PM

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84. "Kweli and Beans"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

were better

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Wed May-02-12 11:10 PM

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85. "Dilla, Cam'ron, DOOM, Lib, Atmosphere, Clipse, Neptunes"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Dizzee Rascal, CunninLynguists, Kanye, Wayne, Cool Kids, Jeezy, Gucci Mane


all these guys will mean that decade to ME, and in ten years when people are summarizing this decade those will be the artists their lists point to, which in turn will be the lists that develop the taste of internet-minded teenagers


It's pretty silly to assume this decade or any following decade would have as many out and out legends as the first two, though. It's similar to the reigns punk and metal had; at some point, the notoriety for playing that sort of music faded into a niche obscurity and it was up to the fans of more than radio and club plays to decide who the legends were, and often that was a personal choice.


Also, you'd have been laughed at if you called Velvet Underground of Scott Walker a legend in their heydays, but here they are fifty years later getting namedropped as often as possible. It's impossible to determine what will truly be enduring; in fact, I'd argue hip-hop's canon has been remarkably resilient against that trend so far. Perhaps thanks in part to the term "classic"/"5 Mics", but it's much easier to reach general consensus on a hip-op argument than any other. At least in my experience.



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Thu May-03-12 12:01 AM

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86. "Also, by Thane's criteria, who I usually don't disagree with"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

Fabolous would be a 2000s legend. And I guess MAYBE HE IS, somehow. But not to me. Everyone knows who he is and what he does though. Maybe Pitbull is a legend.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Thu May-03-12 06:43 AM

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98. "RE: Also, by Thane's criteria, who I usually don't disagree with"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

Very Popular and Legend are 2 different things..

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu May-03-12 02:27 PM

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114. "than how are you saying Fab isnt but 50 is"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

Fab's rap style which he took from Mase, has been JUST as influential as 50s music. please explain

  

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Original Juice
Member since Oct 03rd 2007
2315 posts
Thu May-03-12 12:19 AM

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87. "Re:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This legend debate/discussion is very similar to the GREAT/GREATEST/BEST/CLASSIC debates/discussions we've all seen before.


  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Thu May-03-12 06:58 AM

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102. "RE: Re:"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

Yeah but this thread is easy to follow when emotions are not involved. Great and Legend are 2 different things and naming your favorite artist in every discussion even when it doesnt fit is crazy to me.

Another example:

T.I. by some is a GREAT artist...makes good music..very famous

Dr. Dre is a legend in the genre, influenced an entire coast and the entire hip hop world, famous as well but due to his talent first, NWA and things of that nature...

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Thu May-03-12 12:42 AM

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88. "I wouldn't say Jay-z became a legend until the 2000's"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean it was the Blueprint that cemented his legacy. I doubt he'd be called a legend if he retired in 1999 to become a minister.

  

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smooth va
Member since May 02nd 2005
6059 posts
Thu May-03-12 12:46 AM

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89. "I don't think we're far enough away from the era for this discussion."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to call someone a legend at anything it's usually a couple decades from their prime. this seems a bit premature at this point.

"This is dedicated to whom it may concern."-Donny Hathaway

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Thu May-03-12 06:43 AM

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97. "RE: I don't think we're far enough away from the era for this discussion..."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

Yeah but the word LEGEND is being thrown around like its nothing. You can tell some people will be looked back as a legend by fans and peers

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Thu May-03-12 12:48 AM

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90. "Pharrell, Dilla, Just Blaze, Em, T.I., MF Doom, Weezy, Madlib"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Talib Kweli, Little Brother and I'm sure a few others that can't come to my mind.

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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Thu May-03-12 06:45 AM

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99. "RE: Pharrell, Dilla, Just Blaze, Em, T.I., MF Doom, Weezy, Madlib"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

Your just naming people now...

Mf Doom........No

Little Brother...No

Madlib....No

T.I.....No

The Neptunes...ok...maybe so

Just Blaze...no.......Dr. Dre...YES....difference

Dilla....Legendary Talent...died early

Weezy and Eminem...YES

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Thu May-03-12 11:50 AM

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110. "I'm not naming ppl, these are all ppl who've left their mark"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

on hip hop. If Neptunes is just a maybe with you than you clearly are being biased to your tastes as oppose to what will be remembered in history.

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
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Thu May-03-12 04:41 PM

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129. "Good call on Talib Kweli."
In response to Reply # 90


          

You would not believe how often his name was mentioned in the early 2000's.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19843 posts
Thu May-03-12 01:38 AM

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91. "Madlib because I don't care what casual fans think or know about"
In response to Reply # 0


          

If you gotta be known by casual fans of rap/hip-hop to qualify as a legend then dudes like Pete Rock, Premier, RZA, Dilla aren't legends, they're just great artists. Jokers might recognize the name but I bet they couldn't name one song or album they were responsible for.


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
15745 posts
Thu May-03-12 04:49 AM

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95. "here's the thing about madlib"
In response to Reply # 0


          

for all the quantity that he puts out, I can't think of a single ALBUM of his that's hot all the way through.

I'm open to suggestions/recommendations, but I'm currently at a loss...

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu May-03-12 02:31 PM

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115. "LOL STOP THIS SHIT"
In response to Reply # 95
Thu May-03-12 02:37 PM by astralblak

  

          

Madvillian
The Unseen
Shades of Blue
the Liberation
Champion Sound
the first string of jazz viynl Lps from 00-05

if you're not a fan cool, but those records are damn near undeniable

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Thu May-03-12 04:26 PM

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126. "dont forget BK 5-6"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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MikeDinosaur
Member since Dec 26th 2011
66 posts
Thu May-03-12 07:53 PM

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135. "RE: dont forget BK 5-6"
In response to Reply # 126


          

Beat konducta in Africa is unbelievable too.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Fri May-04-12 01:14 AM

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149. "all the shit you named was collabs, though"
In response to Reply # 115


          

doom could rhyme over a click track and it would be entertaining

the unseen don't really hold up well

that blue note joint is hella frustrating as a beatmaker and a jazz lover and a fan...it's kinda, almost, dope

and them early jazz joints...we just gonna disagree about those, man. The later ones are much MUCH MUCH better

I like a ton of his work, just not very many of his ALBUMS

he's a legend off of work ethic alone, but a lot of his stuff is kinda scattered

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Fri May-04-12 07:10 PM

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157. "that's your opinion. and that/this is mine"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

the Unseen is one of the best records of the last 15 years. Period. it holds up just fine

and lol and not liking Shades of Blue... that statement creates a tectonic plate shift in my mind

and WE DEF DISAGREE on the jazz recordings, the 00-04 stuff is MUCH better than the 07-current stuff.

and who cares if they're collabs. Dre's whole career is based on collabs, FOH with that criticism

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Fri May-04-12 07:31 PM

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158. "dude the instro version of unseen KICKS SO MUCH ASS"
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

and it holds up JUST FINE

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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camerongiIes
Member since Jun 12th 2006
1328 posts
Tue May-08-12 09:17 AM

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215. "^^^^"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Thu May-03-12 03:31 PM

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121. "Your taste isn't what makes a legend"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

It's impact. Just b/c some guy doesn't like Muddy Waters doesn't mean he's not a legend.

  

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CB_010
Member since Mar 01st 2006
725 posts
Thu May-03-12 05:34 AM

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96. " i just wanna thank philpot.. for making this poast inner..resting"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

without naming so called legends i just wanna
say the brother held his ground with solid arguments regardless
of what some may or may not say.. the arguments were/are solid.
i agree.

___________________________
http://www.soundcloud.com/cb010
https://soundcloud.com/kofitheunkn0wn

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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103. "*daps*"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19843 posts
Thu May-03-12 09:20 AM

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105. "^"
In response to Reply # 96


          

>without naming so called legends i just wanna
>say the brother held his ground with solid arguments
>regardless
>of what some may or may not say.. the arguments were/are
>solid.
>i agree.
>


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
17860 posts
Thu May-03-12 09:38 AM

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106. "I love how the usual rodropers fucked this post entirely"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

most of you talking the loudest have no idea what a legend is and equate the term with popular successes, when its actually closer to the opposite
go get some pussy

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Thu May-03-12 09:55 AM

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107. "RE: I love how the usual rodropers fucked this post entirely"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

The post was not that hard to understand.

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu May-03-12 02:38 PM

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116. "but your interpretations/explainations of what is are"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

.

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Thu May-03-12 04:19 PM

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123. "RE: but your interpretations/explainations of what is are"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

Not really yo...

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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G_The_SP
Member since Dec 12th 2005
2413 posts
Thu May-03-12 04:38 PM

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128. "Lose all credibility..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...for even uttering that 50 Cent is anything close to a legend. ugh!

~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~
http://soundcloud.com/griff-x
http://atribecalledx.com
http://twitter.com/IamGriffX

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Thu May-03-12 06:19 PM

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130. "RE: Lose all credibility..."
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

His name alone is Legendary now in Hip Hop. Sorry, but it is. The entire Mixtape movement, Eminem/Dre Push, Get Rich LP, Had the Streets on lock for at least 2 years, The G-Unit Movement, Beef, Street Cred that appears to be real though I could care less, business ventures, clothing line, investments....all in the name of Hip Hop..still a huge figure to casual and even people who dont like Hip Hop. A solid MC on top of everything else. Thats like saying Puff is not a legend and he doesnt make beats or write his raps. Its bigger than that. If you cant understand the angle I'm coming, I dont know what to tell you.

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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G_The_SP
Member since Dec 12th 2005
2413 posts
Sat May-05-12 07:30 PM

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169. "RE: Lose all credibility..."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

Seriously, that's just about every other rapper in the game. He's not special for those accomplishments. He's mediocre at best as a rapper. He's a fucking caricature.

Seriously, it's statements like that that make words like "epic" and "legend" lose their power.

~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~
http://soundcloud.com/griff-x
http://atribecalledx.com
http://twitter.com/IamGriffX

  

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tandmfam
Member since Apr 20th 2010
1614 posts
Thu May-03-12 09:58 PM

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146. "50 can rap circles around"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

these clowns Big Sean Wiz and Drake French Montana or any
of these new niggas

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Fri May-04-12 09:05 AM

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153. "RE: 50 can rap circles around"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

Easily

See Power of The Dollar

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
17959 posts
Fri May-04-12 04:53 PM

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155. "He sure made better music than them. "
In response to Reply # 146


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Sat May-05-12 08:26 AM

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160. "RE: He sure made better music than them. "
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

Yep, at least in my eyes..

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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MikeDinosaur
Member since Dec 26th 2011
66 posts
Thu May-03-12 07:55 PM

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136. "RE: Every Era has Legends: Post 2000 are Kanye &amp; 50 the only Legends..."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-03-12 07:56 PM by MikeDinosaur

          

Kenny G is the biggest legend in jazz. He changed the game, son! The man on the street ain't trying to hear Coltrane's squiggedy squonks!

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Thu May-03-12 08:17 PM

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138. "Dizzy WHO? "
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

If I can't find his album at Wal-Mart he ain't a legend

  

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heyo
Member since Dec 17th 2011
521 posts
Fri May-04-12 02:09 AM

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150. "i feel like this post was more about icons than legends"
In response to Reply # 0


          

at least according to my definitions (which most likely people won't agree with lol)

50 (arguably), wayne, em, kanye are the hip hop artists that the "general public" will remember from the previous decade. icons/symbols of rap for 2001-2010


on that type of scale, obviously madlib won't register. the roots wouldn't even register (moreso in the 90s i guess) and they've gone plat/gold/etc.


but if we're talking about legends, it's kind of a different discussion that i think is more centered on talent/output. i do believe there still has to be some widespread acknowledgement of the artist (i.e. some artist with 60 fans can't be a legend no matter how dope his music is). but madlib has obviously achieved that with albums on many critics (both mainstream mags and random blogs) best of lists, impact on the artists around him, and fans all over the world.

you can still debate all you want whether or not you think he is talented enough to be considered a legend. but it's not fair to say he can't be a legend because a non/casual hip-hop fan wouldn't know who he is. why would that be relevant to determining whether somebody is a "hip-hop" legend?

  

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loveluv
Charter member
1038 posts
Fri May-04-12 05:27 AM

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151. "i think madlib, the roots, doom, dilla etc"
In response to Reply # 0


          

fall into the grateful dead category of legend. by that i mean there is a large segement of the population that has no idea who they are, or have ever heard a song by them, but they are acknowledeged by their peers as great, have a large (enough) and very dedicated fan base, put in years and will probably quit whenever they say quit and not be forced out.

so we need a grateful dead legends category it can't all be only about registering on the pop culture map.

and no i don't think every underground mc/producer should qualify.

  

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StakksAbbot
Member since Oct 02nd 2009
504 posts
Fri May-04-12 05:05 PM

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156. "RE: Every Era has Legends: Post 2000 are Kanye &amp; 50 the only Legends..."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri May-04-12 05:17 PM by StakksAbbot

          

Atmosphere

Tech n9ne

Madlib

J-dilla

MF Doom

Curren$y

I think this era will be remembered for its sprawling influence, and the heads of all the subgenres will be remembered as legends in the future. I liken this to groups like Joy Division being remembered as Legendary with only a couple albums and minimal record sales. The sub genre they represent, the emo/post punk type stuff, them being the poster children for that makes them legendary.

Curren$y may not stack up next to Rakim, but as the leader of the Stoner rap/mixtape rapper reniassance, he will be considered legendary in the future, unless he completely falls off.

Often times the acts with stronger cult-like fanbases are the ones made into legends, while the more "successful" artists are the ones that get lost in the shuffle. T.I. was Running shit, when Jay-Z retired, but he is now lost in the shuffle as we, as a culture have moved on to the next "hot thing". While MF Doom hasn't released but one full length in what, 5-6 years, but ask most anyone who knows him, or about him, and he's that legendary cat in a mask.

I may not be fully fleshing out my stance, but I hope that it is clear what I mean, and I am not discounting the other "legends" nor am I saying mine are the only ones.

***************************************

Check Out MY Music!!!

soundcloud.com/stakksabbot

Let Me Know What You Think!!!

***************************************

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Fri May-04-12 07:49 PM

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159. "RE: Every Era has Legends: Post 2000 are Kanye &amp; 50 the only Legends..."
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

Time will tell..


Legend is a big word though...it takes alot to be one...

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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GumDrops
Charter member
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Sat May-05-12 11:28 AM

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162. "ppl overuse the term legends. but the greats of 00s rap will be"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

50, kanye, gucci mane, waka, lil jon, camron, clipse, and on an underground cult-ish level, dilla, madlib, el-p, DOOM, etc. im sure theres several im missing out. eminem belongs to the 90s.

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Sat May-05-12 01:05 PM

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165. "Gucci Mane and Waka and not Jeezy or Ross? Yeah ok"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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GumDrops
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Sun May-06-12 03:56 AM

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171. "i forgot about them"
In response to Reply # 165
Sun May-06-12 03:57 AM by GumDrops

  

          

im not a big jeezy fan but yeah, he is one of the most important - whether you like him or not - artists of the decade, same for rick ross and 50 (who only has one classic album to his name but thats more than most rappers).

  

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cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2182 posts
Sat May-05-12 12:46 PM

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164. "When I consider someone to be *Legendary* they have to have a combo"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat May-05-12 12:46 PM by cidolfas

  

          

of commercial and critical appeal that's unheralded by their peers.

To me the Legends of the 00s (not my personal favorites aside from Jay) were:

Eminem
Kanye
Lil Wayne
50 Cent (maybe)
Jay-Z

_________________

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Sat May-05-12 01:06 PM

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166. "RE: When I consider someone to be *Legendary* they have to have a combo"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

I agree. Some of these posters are just naming artist they like alot. Putting legend behind some artist who people dont even know...lol..thank for your response. A realistic one..

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sat May-05-12 01:29 PM

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167. "how about you keep ignoring the fact that"
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE dont know who many of the golden era rappers/producers/albums are, outside of maybe Run DMC, LL and the Beastie Boys

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Sat May-05-12 07:58 PM

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170. "RE: how about you keep ignoring the fact that"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

Not true. Plenty of casual fans know who Rakim, Krs, and Big Daddy Kane. You can ask a 45 year old woman at church who Big Daddy Kane is and she will say "Oh, the rapper?


Come on fam...

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
17959 posts
Sat May-05-12 01:49 PM

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168. "The artists you listed were very much THE faces of 2000's hip hop."
In response to Reply # 164


          

They may not have started their careers in the 2000's, but they sure made their mark in it even if their record sales don't quite reflect it. And this is where Cam'ron, Common and Talib Kewli comes in.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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2.tears.in.a.bucket
Member since Sep 04th 2009
6185 posts
Sun May-06-12 03:10 PM

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179. "Lupe is close - quiet as its kept."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

♚♚♚♚

#BYLUG >>> https://goo.gl/1ooFp6

♚♚♚♚

screamin' mothafuck a 12 /
bitches ain't shit /
cops ain't neither /
they huntin' my people /

- i. rashad

♚♚♚♚

  

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cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
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180. "To a legend?"
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

No offense to anyone in this thread, but people are listing forgettables or more or less their favorites.

_________________

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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189. "RE: To a legend?"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

I've said the same thing 5 times in this thread...

your favorite might not be a legend...lol

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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181. "What has Lupe done to be close to being considered a legend?"
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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182. "definitely an UNSUNG..."
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

If Wayne spit raps like Lupe, he would be called the GOAT...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
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184. "Yeah, Lupe can write amazing raps, so what?"
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

_________________

  

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Crash85
Member since May 08th 2007
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186. "Yeah, that was kinda my point..."
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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198. "lol"
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Zarathuckya
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190. "To the people who say you have to be a pop star to be a hip hop legend:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Music gets popular on the basis of the quality of the music, but also on the basis of the extent to which the artist has money put into the PR/advertising of the music.

In other words, one of the biggest factors influencing the popularity of a song or artist, more often than not, is a factor which has nothing to do with the music itself...

What I'm saying is that a lot of the most popular artists are the most popular because rich white men who run the music industry chose to back them with a shit load of PR/advertising money.

Should the tastes and preferences of the rich white men who run the music corporations dictate who is considered to be true legends in hip hop culture?

See 50 Cent speak on the topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcbqbfi6lhI


  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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191. "So here's my question about it...."
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

>What I'm saying is that a lot of the most popular artists are
>the most popular because rich white men who run the music
>industry chose to back them with a shit load of PR/advertising
>money.
>
>Should the tastes and preferences of the rich white men who
>run the music corporations dictate who is considered to be
>true legends in hip hop culture?

So is it something super special about these artists that make the "rich white men" choose to back them? Is it because they have nice shiny eyebrows or some shit? Or because they realize that their music is going to appeal the most, musically and image wise? Is it even because they enjoy their music more?

------------------------------

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Zarathuckya
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192. "RE: So here's my question about it...."
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

>>What I'm saying is that a lot of the most popular artists
>are
>>the most popular because rich white men who run the music
>>industry chose to back them with a shit load of
>PR/advertising
>>money.
>>
>>Should the tastes and preferences of the rich white men who
>>run the music corporations dictate who is considered to be
>>true legends in hip hop culture?
>
>So is it something super special about these artists that make
>the "rich white men" choose to back them? Is it because they
>have nice shiny eyebrows or some shit? Or because they realize
>that their music is going to appeal the most, musically and
>image wise? Is it even because they enjoy their music more?
>

In short I suspect it's because they think that the music+image+story of the artist is compelling enough that, when drilled ad nauseum in to the heads of stupid young white Americans, it will sell a lot.

What I'm saying is, if we choose who we consider to be legends in hip hop based on whether or not they become house hold names in white America, i think that's problematic. Who cares if these baby boomers know who Snoop Doggy Dogg is? It's not like they care for his music.

I'm just going off of intuition here cos it seems wrong to put such a huge weight on popularity in choosing who the legends are, given the influence of these corporations in the mix.

In saying this I acknowledge that you can't be an entire unknown and be considered a legend. Most rappers besides Lil B and Company Flow had some kind of record label behind them.

But it seems wrong to regard pop star status and being known in white households as being a prerequisite of becoming a legend in hip hop.

Shouldn't it be 'the people of hip hop' who ultimately decide who the hip hop legends are, as opposed to corporate pricks in three piece suits who don't even care about the music beyond the money it makes them?


  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Mon May-07-12 07:15 AM

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193. "the "people of hiphop" category isn't as clearly definable as we"
In response to Reply # 192


          

wish it was.

There are a grip of young tight jean wearing kids who know hip-hop and have a pretty diverse palette of what is good music. It ain't the 90s no more...cats can find whatever music they want, whenever they want.

I ain't dismissing the underground at all, cuz there are quite a few legends of this era who are underground as hell (and what is "underground", really in this era?),but "mainstream" hip-hop ain't the crap it once was

  

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Zarathuckya
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202. "RE: the "people of hiphop" category isn't as clearly definable as we"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

>wish it was.
>

I'm not saying it's easy to define. But I am suggesting that people who don't like hip hop in the first place, e.g. your average white grandma, 'baby boomers', teenage girls whose only hip hop on their playlist is Drake and Love Lockdown, could be safely excluded from the equation.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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204. "RE: the "people of hiphop" category isn't as clearly definable as we"
In response to Reply # 202


  

          

DJ Premier has co-signed Drake too so let's not act like official cats ain't feeling the kid. I understand if the "real" hip hoppers don't like him but let's not act like true fans of hip hop don't fuck with Drake as well.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Zarathuckya
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206. "RE: the "people of hiphop" category isn't as clearly definable as we"
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

>DJ Premier has co-signed Drake too so let's not act like
>official cats ain't feeling the kid. I understand if the
>"real" hip hoppers don't like him but let's not act like true
>fans of hip hop don't fuck with Drake as well.

I'm not addressing Drake specifically, I'm talking about the 11yr old girl in the household with a couple hip hop songs on her ipod. It could be Rakim but more likely it's gonna be Rhianna feat Drake.

Does the fact this little girl and her grandma don't know who Rakim is mean he is not a legend in hip hop? Should pop star status/household name status really be a determinant?

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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207. "RE: the "people of hiphop" category isn't as clearly definable as we"
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

>>DJ Premier has co-signed Drake too so let's not act like
>>official cats ain't feeling the kid. I understand if the
>>"real" hip hoppers don't like him but let's not act like
>true
>>fans of hip hop don't fuck with Drake as well.
>
>I'm not addressing Drake specifically, I'm talking about the
>11yr old girl in the household with a couple hip hop songs on
>her ipod. It could be Rakim but more likely it's gonna be
>Rhianna feat Drake.
>
>Does the fact this little girl and her grandma don't know who
>Rakim is mean he is not a legend in hip hop? Should pop star
>status/household name status really be a determinant?

i'm trying to understand where this whole pop star, white household determines who's a legend came from? who said that? we said you have to have major impact on hip hop to be considered a legend.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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216. "ehhhh, ok, but i don't think anybody is claiming teenyboppers"
In response to Reply # 202


          

as a crucial demographic to artistic merit, though

and to me, throwing that idea in there is kinda what I mean when I say the mainstream ain't what it was

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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194. "about being known in white households"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

as being a prerequisite of becoming a legend in hip hop. don't artist like DOOM, Madlib and others owe white households for their careers? Their fan base is mostly white right?

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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Mon May-07-12 11:19 AM

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195. "RE: about being known in white households"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

Good Point

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Mon May-07-12 12:32 PM

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196. "LOFL"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

so are wu tangs, tupacs, 50s, dip sets, etc. the ratio of black fans the roots, lib, doom have in comparison to those listed that are popular, would be proportional.

  

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MikeDinosaur
Member since Dec 26th 2011
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Mon May-07-12 03:35 PM

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197. "RE: LOFL"
In response to Reply # 196
Mon May-07-12 03:36 PM by MikeDinosaur

          

Also tribe. Plenty of black people know Doom, though. I got turned onto him by this black kid from Atlanta who didn't even own a computer. I brought him up at my coffee shop and the African immigrant kid who works there knew him. Neither of them knew BDK. I don't know if my anecdote is as scientific as asking my girlfriend but that's what I've got.

I don't understand why T.I. isn't a legend. He has at least one classic, got a lot of critical acclaim, crystallised the trap genre, got as much of a push from his mixtapes as 50 did... what is he missing?

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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201. "RE: LOFL"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

>Also tribe. Plenty of black people know Doom, though. I got
>turned onto him by this black kid from Atlanta who didn't even
>own a computer. I brought him up at my coffee shop and the
>African immigrant kid who works there knew him. Neither of
>them knew BDK. I don't know if my anecdote is as scientific as
>asking my girlfriend but that's what I've got.
>
>I don't understand why T.I. isn't a legend. He has at least
>one classic, got a lot of critical acclaim, crystallised the
>trap genre, got as much of a push from his mixtapes as 50
>did... what is he missing?

Like my man said about dilla up top, go into any barbershop in the hoods of America and ask them about DOOM or Madlib and see the looks you get. I'm black and I know DOOM but I'm not the average rap fan in the hood. You talking about coffee shops and African immigrants. Come on fam.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Thanes1975
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208. "RE: LOFL"
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

thank you..lol

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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200. "RE: LOFL"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

>so are wu tangs, tupacs, 50s, dip sets, etc. the ratio of
>black fans the roots, lib, doom have in comparison to those
>listed that are popular, would be proportional.

Wu, 2Pac, 50, Dipset, etc got love in the hood. That's where hip hop started so it don't matter how many white fans they have. The white fans don't make or break them. DOOM and Madlib ain't getting play in the hood. The white fans are their bread & butter.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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astralblak
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212. "K"
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

so the "authentic" black folk in the hood are the ones that matter, not any of us who exist outside that "vast scope"... gotcha

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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213. "RE: K"
In response to Reply # 212


  

          

The hood is the heart of hip hop. You can take it how you want. You guys came in here talking about having to be pop stars and being a household name in white homes is required to be a legend. Just flipping peoples words to fit your agendas. A legend has major impact on rap music. There are only a few legends in the game. DOOM, Madlib and some of these other cats y'all came in here naming aren't legends.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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astralblak
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217. "maybe your getting confused because of the amount"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

of people your replying to

but YALL said popularity is a part of being a legend. when folks countered with not as many people AS YOU think know who Ra, BDK, KRS, Slick Rick, etc are... than y'all changed it to does the barber shop know who you are?

y'all have no footing or consistency to your claims. Unlike you and Thanes, KRS, Wu, Pac, Ra, Slick Are legends... as well as YE, Jay, Em, ect... and as well as Dilla, Lib, DOOM and El-P. but have it your way

i aint even gunna touch that "the hood, is the heart of hip hop" arguement

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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218. "Not confused at all. You and Philpot are the two i've been talking to"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

>of people your replying to
>
>but YALL said popularity is a part of being a legend. when
>folks countered with not as many people AS YOU think know who
>Ra, BDK, KRS, Slick Rick, etc are... than y'all changed it to
>does the barber shop know who you are?

if you look at my response at the top you will see that I said you have
to have impact on a major scale. He brought in the pop star talk. If
you look at the legends of the past they were popular in their era. LL,
Rakim, KRS, etc. Those that weren't like a Kool G have directly influenced
someone who became great, Nas.

>
>y'all have no footing or consistency to your claims. Unlike
>you and Thanes, KRS, Wu, Pac, Ra, Slick Are legends... as well
>as YE, Jay, Em, ect... and as well as Dilla, Lib, DOOM and
>El-P. but have it your way

I have been consistent throughout. The guys I named have impacted hip
hop on a major scale. They either influenced a legend or had their hands
in legendary projects. The talk of pop stars, being household name in
white households and the other BS was brought to the table by other
people.

>
>i aint even gunna touch that "the hood, is the heart of hip
>hop" arguement

and I'm not gonna keep going back and forth with the Madlib debate.
I'm a fan of his music but he hasn't had significant impact on hip
hop IMO and at the end of the day we're arguing over opinions so i'm
done.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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Tue May-08-12 03:50 PM

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221. "Good discussion"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

good discussion overall

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
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199. "Aha"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

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Zarathuckya
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Mon May-07-12 06:18 PM

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203. "RE: about being known in white households"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

>as being a prerequisite of becoming a legend in hip hop.
>don't artist like DOOM, Madlib and others owe white households
>for their careers? Their fan base is mostly white right?

Yeah man of course - I go to hip hop shows and it's always mostly white people there. By household I don't just mean the 22 yr old son who is genuinely into hip hop, I mean everyone in the household, the parents, granddad, the 6 year olds..

I'm trying to rebut the idea that an artist must be a household name / a pop star / known to people who don't even like hip hop - for him to be considered a legend in hip hop.

Because how do they get to that pop star status? Yes talent and hard work is there, a captivating image or back-story, but in most cases there is also a corporate machine behind them that is blasting their image out to the world.

How much of a part should those corporate interests (which are a key part in an artist becoming a household name) play in determining who is considered the legends in hip hop?


  

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Thanes1975
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Mon May-07-12 09:57 PM

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210. "RE: about being known in white households"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

I'm not even talking about corporate or labels....people are just naming people they like calling the Legends. The term should be kind of self explanatory. I understand your comment and this isnt against you...just a general statement

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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cjr2221
Member since Sep 04th 2011
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Mon May-07-12 10:16 PM

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211. "Pharrell/ The Neptunes, Just Blaze, Kanye West"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon May-07-12 10:23 PM by cjr2221

  

          

Lupe
Lil' Wayne

I'd say Jay-Z cemented himself with the 2000's

  

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Thanes1975
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214. "RE: Pharrell/ The Neptunes, Just Blaze, Kanye West"
In response to Reply # 211


  

          

Lupe is not a Hip Hop legend ....dope artist though...great lyrics

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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cjr2221
Member since Sep 04th 2011
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Wed May-09-12 09:09 AM

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235. "There are people"
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

who listen to nothing but Lupe
Lupe's fans are hardcore and he has a lot of them

Lupe made being different possible for a popular MC.

I don't think many of yall realize how big Lupe and Pharrell are to younger people.

Lupe Fiasco is the only reason a lot of people even got into Hip-Hop, me for one.

Lupe will end up in Hip-Hops greater canon.

  

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cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2182 posts
Tue May-08-12 04:46 PM

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222. "For producers:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just Blaze
Kanye West
Timbaland
Neptunes

anyone else?

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Tue May-08-12 06:15 PM

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224. "RE: For producers:"
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

Yep, you got it right. Not sure who else would be considered legends in regard to producers. There are some great ones but legend is rare word to me..

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2182 posts
Tue May-08-12 06:23 PM

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225. "I, for one, am glad you made this thread."
In response to Reply # 224
Tue May-08-12 06:24 PM by cidolfas

  

          

There's a clear difference between calling someone a legend and fanboyism.

Some of these guys got their skirt pulled.

(Edit: And, no, I don't have an agenda. I like almost every artist mentioned in this thread.)

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Tue May-08-12 09:00 PM

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227. "the faggots that are incapable of objectivity are the 1s w/ pulled up sk..."
In response to Reply # 225
Tue May-08-12 09:09 PM by philpot

  

          

and thats u and ur crew

on that bullshit

got utterly destroyed in this post

the only thing left ro do is to circle jerk each other to rebuild ur self esteem

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16352 posts
Wed May-09-12 07:48 AM

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232. "dude, you show no objectivity whatsoever"
In response to Reply # 227


  

          

you ride or die for Madlib and when people don't agree with you you just throw insults. Everybody in here gave Madlib props. They just don't agree that he's a legend.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed May-09-12 07:52 AM

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233. "i have not ONCE challenged the legitimacy..."
In response to Reply # 232


  

          

of the many ppl that yall have claimed as legends, EVEN if i may disagree bc u certainly can make an argument


but, the evidence presented in this post by many posters re: madlib being a legend is STILL outright dismissed by u guys, and u alk cant even admit the reasons why!

ie FOH son

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whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Wed May-09-12 08:21 AM

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234. "RE: i have not ONCE challenged the legitimacy..."
In response to Reply # 233


  

          

I told you the reason why I don't think he's a legend. I don't see the major impact he has on rap music. Still doesn't stop me from being a fan of his music.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Wed May-09-12 11:45 AM

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236. "fam i pointed out clearly his impact on rap"
In response to Reply # 234


  

          

u chose to ignore it

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16352 posts
Wed May-09-12 01:12 PM

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237. "RE: fam i pointed out clearly his impact on rap"
In response to Reply # 236


  

          

>u chose to ignore it

i didn't ignore it. I just don't think his impact on rap is large enough to consider him a legend. If y'all want to call him an underground legend or whatever, cool.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2182 posts
Wed May-09-12 01:13 PM

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238. "I love Madlib, don't take it personal, homie."
In response to Reply # 227


  

          

He's one of my favorites of the decade. No fucking way he's a legend in the game.

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed May-09-12 04:49 PM

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239. "define "the game""
In response to Reply # 238


  

          

my guess is it has little to do w/ actual music or musical influence

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whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16352 posts
Wed May-09-12 05:48 PM

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240. "RE: define "the game""
In response to Reply # 239


  

          

I'm almost leaning more your way because I pulled my Quasimoto joints out today and heard samples he flipped first that have been used by Alchemist and on Jay-Z's Kingdom Come LP so his impact has bleed into the majors a little.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed May-09-12 05:54 PM

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241. "word up"
In response to Reply # 240


  

          

respect

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whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Tue May-08-12 11:50 PM

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231. "RE: I, for one, am glad you made this thread."
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

Thanks my G...it was a good discussion..

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
17959 posts
Tue May-08-12 08:49 PM

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226. "Dilla? He just seemed more prominent in the 2000's than in the 1990's."
In response to Reply # 222


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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liveguy
Member since Jan 01st 2004
7982 posts
Wed May-09-12 06:23 PM

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242. "Dilla and Madlib"
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

Everyone named there in ur list are straight up Dilla stans, save Timb, but even he wouldn't front....

How is that NOT legend when ur PEERS look up to your work?

Do music that they want you to say is dope?

And ALSO everyone in that list wouldn't dare say Lib isnt a legend in the game.

People saying that Madlib is NOT a legend are buggin the fugg out!

He is.

We see through all that boo boo like it's ghost shit... (c) Quelle Chris

| http://liveguy.bandcamp.com |
| www.soundcloud.com/liveguy |
| www.twitter.com/liveguy |
| www.instagram.com/theREALliveguy |
| XBOX ONE GT: theREALliveguy |

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Thu May-10-12 09:16 PM

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243. "RE: Dilla and Madlib"
In response to Reply # 242


  

          

Madlib only a legend on okayplayer fam. I love his music and he is dope but only a legend on okayplayer.

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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