Kweli>>>>Com.

I'm as shocked as you are.

he wasn't fucking with common in his prime

* * * * =========
* * * * =========
* * * * =========
==============
==============

Let's be real here. Common's "prime" is two albums. "One Day" and "Like Water for Chocolate."

Kweli started strong with Black Star and got stronger as he went. Yeah, he's annoying sometimes. Not nearly as often as Com in the last ten years, if you ask me.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

I'm pretty sure Res falls under "all albums considered."

you named Common's prime as One Day and LWFC. Resurrection, no matter how you feel about it, was certainly part of his prime.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

>Let's be real here. Common's "prime" is two albums. "One Day"
>and "Like Water for Chocolate."
>
>Kweli started strong with Black Star and got stronger as he
>went. Yeah, he's annoying sometimes. Not nearly as often as
>Com in the last ten years, if you ask me.


ignoring Resurrection makes me wish I never responded below because it voids anything you have to say.

But, how did Kweli get stronger? I guess he did with Train of Thought, but then he went downhill from there.

Resurrection - One Day… - Like Water >>>> Black Star - Train of Thought.

It sounds like you're judging Common based off of his recent output more so than anything else.

nah

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

No.

Com's highs beat Kweli's pretty easily.

~Austin

"Where in the world is your inspiration to say the things you're aching to say?"

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

Yes, Common's highs are high as shit. I'm talking about putting all albums together.

but Kweli is more consistent throughout his albums.

Talib seems to take fewer chances than Common has in his career, and Common has missed, and missed big sometimes, so Talib has a better percentage of consistent quality even if that quality is less impressive than Common at his best.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

Kweli doesn't have anything even remotely close.

~Austin

"Where in the world is your inspiration to say the things you're aching to say?"

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Quality and Beautiful Struggle? Wow.

Welcome to the world outside of your bubble.

(not that your bubble is a bad place, just saying. . .)

~Austin

"Where in the world is your inspiration to say the things you're aching to say?"

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

I'm not in a bubble. It's not like this specific topic has happened before on here and I missed it. I think I acknowledged pretty strongly that my opinion was outside of the consensus. Some of the details are surprising, that's all.

. . .how little you think of Resurrection.

I mean, c'mon man, Kweli would not exist as we know him if it weren't for that album. And I'm pretty sure he would say as much.

~Austin

"Where in the world is your inspiration to say the things you're aching to say?"

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

>. . .how little you think of Resurrection.
>
>I mean, c'mon man, Kweli would not exist as we know him if it
>weren't for that album. And I'm pretty sure he would say as
>much.

From Memories Live (one of Kweli's best songs...top 3 IMO):

"Like the first time I saw KRS live, rockin' it
Or heard Resurrection by Common Sense
Dominated my psyche
I chose my direction like Spike Lee
To speak my life through mics, and I never take it lightly"

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

~Austin

"Where in the world is your inspiration to say the things you're aching to say?"

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

Haha word. I wasn't busting your balls. Just felt that line needed to be mentioned.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Dogg - Resurrection is better than Kweli's entire career.

But, like Austin said, your opinion/bubble is yours...so it is what it is. It's all subjective anyway.

But I honestly can't believe you or anyone would be able to mention Beautiful Struggle in the same breath as Resurrection and not be making some kind of sick joke.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

And Res is largely an album of shit-talking and just general pre-Nas battle-style rapping with some good-ass O.C.-ish beats.

But O.C. did Res better than Com did Res.

(It's late, I might be getting stupid with that last statement. Pardon me if that's the case)

>And Res is largely an album of shit-talking and just general
>pre-Nas battle-style rapping with some good-ass O.C.-ish
>beats.

Word. And listen, I'm all for content. Which is a primary reason why I have always put Common in my top 5 all time MCs. His ability to mix introspection, social commentary, word play and shit-talk is top notch in my book.

So sure, Resurrection is primarily a "I'm a better MC than you" album content-wise, but at the same time, he was 22 years old and still mixed in a song like "Book of Life" which was/is an all-time great "I'm a dope MC but where am I going with my life" track. And the word play on that album is bar none.

And..again, I can't stress enough... Beautiful Struggle had its moments, but...did a lot of the "content" not seem contrived to you? That album was like a poor man's attempt at Train of Thought. THAT was an album full of great content but it was natural.


>But O.C. did Res better than Com did Res.

C'mon dogg.


>(It's late, I might be getting stupid with that last
>statement. Pardon me if that's the case)

Haha - you're pardoned. I'm pretty hammered myself but I gotta call you on that.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Resurrection is easily the best of those 4 - great album.

After that I'd go Quality - good album, then EC- spotty, then Beautiful Struggle which was mostly a dud.

Common has

Ressurrection -Classic
LWFC - VERY GOOD
One Day It'll Make Sense -Classic
Electric Circus - Very Good
Be -Classic

shit I like Can I Borrow a Dollar more than any Kweli LP.


Common's run was incredible, I haven't checked anything since Finding Forever.

Kweli isn't even in the same convo as Com, who is really underrated imo.

You see people giving out their top 10's/20's and Com is hardly ever listed.

Kweli doesn't even have 1 classic LP, Reflection Eternal was his best imo but, still not as good as Electric Circus though.

But when you say that Kweli hasn't put out anything better than EC, you're an outlier.

Like water for chocoLate is the uLtimate common LP.
then one day it'LL aLL make sense.
then resurrection.

-----
then the rest.

* * * * =========
* * * * =========
* * * * =========
==============
==============

But yeah. Basically.

opinions and taste are funny things aren't they.

I wish people would find amusement in differing opinions instead of e-rage.

the only thing keeping a very good album from being classic, are external factors to me.

I really don't feel LWFC as much as Be, or rather on the average day I'd rather hear the more Kanye produced Be than the more Dillafied LWFC.

But I rarely sit down and listen to LWFC in it's entirety.

Don't ask me why....

And I probably listen to EC more than any other Com album.
I still like Resurrection and One Day more though.

Dilla stuff can be so vibey that it doesn't feel like it's moving sometimes.

>Common has
>
>Ressurrection -Classic
>LWFC - VERY GOOD
>One Day It'll Make Sense -Classic
>Electric Circus - Very Good
>Be -Classic

I'd say LWFC is classic, too. But yea.


>shit I like Can I Borrow a Dollar more than any Kweli LP.


Nah, Train of Thought is one of the best albums ever.


>Common's run was incredible, I haven't checked anything since
>Finding Forever.

I hear u but The Dreamer/The Believer is worth checking. Not near his prime stuff but still really good, somewhat of a return to form.


>Kweli isn't even in the same convo as Com, who is really
>underrated imo.
>
>You see people giving out their top 10's/20's and Com is
>hardly ever listed.
>
>Kweli doesn't even have 1 classic LP, Reflection Eternal was
>his best imo but, still not as good as Electric Circus
>though.

Haha - I'm on the pro-EC team myself but, c'mon, TOT is top notch.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Kweli album.

I really don't have much "fun" listening to Kweli albums, aside from Black Star which.... isn't really a Kweli album.

I know a lot of people don't feel EC, but I really like the albums sound. The variety on that LP makes it one of the more "fun" or interesting albums of Common's to listen to too me, more so than LWFC. Mostly because of the production.

I never saw what made LWFC >> One Day it'll make sense or Resurrection.
Resurrection and One Day are two of the first Hip-Hop albums I got though, so I'm probably biased, but I love those 2 albums.

LWFC is a great album though, LWFC, One Day, Resurrection are all basically in the same realm of strength.

Just different flavors

>Kweli album.
>
>I really don't have much "fun" listening to Kweli albums,
>aside from Black Star which.... isn't really a Kweli album.

Yea. Like I said above, I like Kweli's solo career more than most, but clearly his best work was Blackstar/Reflection/Quality.


>I know a lot of people don't feel EC, but I really like the
>albums sound. The variety on that LP makes it one of the more
>"fun" or interesting albums of Common's to listen to too me,
>more so than LWFC. Mostly because of the production.

Yea I'm with you. I understand people being thrown off as to why he came so far outta left field with that album. But I never understood the fury it caused with Common fans. Like you said, it's a VERY interesting listen and has very high highs. It has its lows, too but I appreciate the entire effort. And Comm was lyrically still on fire.


>I never saw what made LWFC >> One Day it'll make sense or
>Resurrection.
>Resurrection and One Day are two of the first Hip-Hop albums I
>got though, so I'm probably biased, but I love those 2
>albums.

Yea I'm a big advocate for One Day...as well. At times I think that's his best album. So I feel you.


>LWFC is a great album though, LWFC, One Day, Resurrection are
>all basically in the same realm of strength.
>
>Just different flavors

Agree.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Even a couple of years ago, I felt like it wasn't Com's album. I felt like he was tagging along on his own album.

>Even a couple of years ago, I felt like it wasn't Com's
>album. I felt like he was tagging along on his own album.

I always felt that way, too... but by all accounts (?uest has specifically said so), Common dictated the ENTIRE direction of that album. As in, every piece of it was some variation of an idea he came up with, but obviously he doesn't produce so he had to have those ideas executed by someone else.

Now if you want to say that Common wasn't himself as a PERSON in that time period, that would be hella accurate. Haha.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Erykah Badu's butt.

http://i42.tinypic.com/e6807a.gif

"I'm one of the world's great survivors. I'll always survive because I've got the right combination of wit, grit and bullshit."

© Don King

as the resident prime-Common stan, I'll try and look at this objectively. I should note that I'm also a lot more fond of Kweli's overall career than most around here.

But let's be real. Train of Thought is in the conversation with LWFC, Res, and One Day...but that's about it. Quality is GREAT, but 2nd rate compared to those 4 albums.

Other than that? Kweli's got Beautiful Struggle which is average at best. Gutter Rainbows which is pretty good. Liberation which is also pretty good but still, if we're ranking their albums together, Comm's got him.

I'll say this. Their careers are probly comparable overall. Obviously Comm's late career has been hit and miss (though I still ride for The Dreamer...all day), so, if we're calling their overall careers even, then we have to look at each artists' prime to choose the winner.

Comm - Res/One Day/LWFC
Kweli - Blackstar/TOT/Quality

Comm wins. By a long shot, IMO. And this is coming from someone who absolutely LOVES the 3 Kweli prime albums I just listed. I mean, "Hungry" alone shits on everything else in either artists' discog.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Eardrum was one of Kweli's better/stronger albums IMO. I'd also consider Right About Now a solid album as well. While I wouldn't rank any of these albums higher than Common's strongest albums, including those two albums helps the Original Posters argument (which I still don't completely agree with)

Resurrection, One Day, and LWFC are unfuckwitable. EC and BE are very good, everything since has been spotty (UMC was horrible)

Kweli only has 1 album that is universally shitted on (Beautiful Struggle) but that album also has some of Kweli's better individual songs as well.

Kweli has been more consistent but consistent doesn't equal better. Common has taken more risks while Kweli has largely stayed in his lane. The result: Common has to try to appease his old and new fanbases while Kweli can simply tweak the same formula he's been using for years.

<----------------------------------------
"Consider me the entity within the industry without a history of spittin the epitomy of stupidity!" - Talib Kweli
http://www.takotron.com/news/2006/mets_cap.jpg

And I agree with pretty much everything you said. I think we're saying the same thing. Both have had really good careers. Kweli is more consistent overall, especially late-career. But Common's highs are MUCH higher...as in some of the highest in hiphop history IMO.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

didn't really read your post, just started posting half asleep shit...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

No worries.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

got a career that was good not great, however Common when compared to Kweli is like Horace Grant to Kweli's Pete Meyers.

Talib never got it right as a solo artist IMO at all.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

Train of Thought and Quality.

I listened to Quality the other day for the first time in a long time. And he nailed that album. At the time it came out, it was one of those "he didn't match his first album," situations (his first album being TOT).

But listening now, Quality is great in its own right. It's no Train of Thought, but it still had some really really great moments.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

i prefer to hear kweli over Com NOW, but not in Com's real heyday....

anyway, both Reflection Eternal albums are classics as is Quality and maybe BS and BS (heh)

i DO think people overrate Ressurection tho...it's a dop album, but i'm only really checkin for like 4 tracks when i listen...watermelon/ressurrection/H.E.R./ and uhhhhhh...it's been awhile....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

>anyway, both Reflection Eternal albums are classics

No, both are absolutely NOT classics. The first one yes. The second one absolutely NOT.

Damn that word gets tossed around too much. RPM doesn't even come close to approaching classic status. There's not one reasonable argument you could make for that.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

the concept of something being "classic" is not one that needs to be universally accepted...it's subjective....with that said, i could find something timeless while you might feel otherwise, and that's ok.....there really IS no argument because it's all fact....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrDOWatyUSc&feature=relmfu

and what inspired this post. I feel like Res is so nineties that I can't enjoy it in the same way these days, whereas I don't get the same, "I wouldn't like it as much if it weren't nostalgic" feeling with Kweli. Kweli shit comes on Pandora and I did it on its own. Res shit comes on and I'm like, "Man, that was the shit when I first heard it."

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

As others have said, "Resurrection" is better than anything Kweli dropped. "Train of Thought" is comparable, but just not as good. Never been a huge fan of "Quality" and "Beautiful Struggle," and the former actually sounds worse with age than when it first dropped. Common's only got one album that's as comparably mediocre: "Universal Mind Control."

I will give Kweli that he's come on stronger in the last few years than I believe he was possible of doing. "Eardrum" was very good, if overlong. The "Liberation" EP is unfairly ignored. But even last year, when Kweli dropped a very good "Gutter Rainbows" album, Common's "The Dreamer, The Believer" was still better.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

I think Quality Control (Get By, Good To You, Guerilla Monsoon Rap, Put it in the air, Gun Music )is a damn strong album, but Beautiful Struggle is hit or miss.

>Common's only got one album that's as
>comparably mediocre: "Universal Mind Control."




_______________________________

Madlib - Blunted In The Bomb Shelter
Gensu Dean- Lo-Fi Fingahz
Trouble - 431 Days

Res>One Day>LWFC>EC>BE> the other releases>UMC

Vs.

TOT>Quality>Liberation>Eardrum>RPM>BS> other releases (although I haven't heard Gutter Rainbows yet)

Com has the bigger high moments to me, but I enjoy Kweli's overall consistency more. The only record of his I didn't really dig was Beautiful Struggle and even that had a few dope jams on it

because Common's first six or so albums is a pretty good run to me.
Kweli has a similarly respectable, beating-the-odds run. Like Common, one of his early superlatives (Train of Thought) casts a benchmark shadow over the rest of his catalog in a way that is similar to Nas and his debut album.

Though, the thing with Common is that he has two, IMO (Resurrection and LWFC) that cast that shadow... when I think about the work that made Common who and what he is not just as a rapper but as a notable one... those two albums are where people will most likely be pointing.

I will say for Kweli, he at least doesn't have a "UMC" (aka The Gap Music Album) in his catalog...

Kweli only has 1 album that can be discussed among Common's top 3 albums.

Common's highs are just that much greater.

From Resurrection - One Day… - Like Water, Common was one of the greatest.

He is in an elite group with 3 great albums.

and I see people listing Resurrection and LWFC as his two greatest, which may be true, but One Day… is only maybe 1 or 2 song cuts and a re-sequencing away from being his best.

Kweli does have Train of Thought which is a classic in my opinion, but after that he has good albums.

Quality is good, Eardrum is good, Gutter Rainbows is good.

But nothing that matches up to Common's highs.

and Kweli does have the Black Star album as well but Common still has great songs from soundtracks in the 90s as well as good albums in Be, some love EC (i hate it), and he has really great songs on Finding Forever and The Dreamer, The Believer.

That's something I'll have to put a lot of thought into. I don't get how people don't think Quality is a great album.

How is a Resurrection vs Quality issue?

Resurrection, One Day, & LWFC are all better or equal to Kweli's best album.

so I don't even know why Quality is a deciding factor on anything.

I wouldn't be mad at anyone who thinks Be is better than Quality.

Calling Quality a great album and Res an overrated but cool album is pretty much necessary to make my declaration. If I didn't believe BOTH of those things, then I could have never come to the conclusion I did. It takes both.

Quality > Resurrection?

is just alright.

and if your answer is no, with the statement you just made, you would be saying Common's average album is better than a great Kweli album, which wouldn't even make sense.

and even if you believe that, I still don't see how it's a case between Quality and Resurrection because Common still has One Day & LWFC vs Train of Thought.

Unless you're weighing Black Star, as a group album equally in this equation.

and that album still isn't comparing to those two Common albums.

I like some shit. You like some shit. Let's talk about it. Go elsewhere with the fucking Matlock shit. Jesus.

We're done here.

and Com is still the better artist and when all said and done will be mentioned among the greats while Kweli won't.

lol

Ignore him.

I certainly don't agree with you on this one either, Invis. But don't feed Gizmo after midnight by responding with anything real.

The best idea is just —and I'm proposing this openly to everyone— respond with "Isn't Nas great?" in the subject (whether you actually believe this or not doesn't matter). That way, everyone agrees and he just stops, fooled into thinking that his nazified view of music opinions is validated.

~Austin

"Where in the world is your inspiration to say the things you're aching to say?"

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

I could see people liking Kweli's discography better than Com's... I don't think Kweli has ever wasted an album like Com did with Universal Mind Control... And I don't think Beautiful Struggle is as bad as everyone makes it out to be...


But yeah, I've always like Com's albums much more... But I think Com's one of the best ever and many would disagree with that...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

I'd give Comm the edge in live performance & career terms but I wouldn't consider someone crazy for putting Train of Thought on the level of Com's best album.

Y'all talked that Eardrum album up & when I got around to listening it failed to move me much like Finding Forever from that same time period.

2007 was a pretty lame year in rap music.

No real new cats came on the scene that blew me away & any established artist that put out a record wasn't on the level of their best work outside probably Graduation (which to me is Kanye's best album).

truly a phenomenal album that has aged VERY well. Its up there with Com's big 3...

but no.

As others have said.

I would have a tough time calling Quality better than Be. Maybe they are about even.


Kweli REALLY needs to switch it up though. He has been releasing basically the same album each time since Quality (aside from Liberation)

There have been some phenomenal songs, but its always the same album basically.

He should really do an album with a producer who people wouldn't expect...or do an entire album with another rapper like Jean Grae or something...

r classics

semantics softer than couples at wedding alters
this cops and robbers
and u cant hold a candle
rip ur antlers off and hang them on my mantle
str8 rambo--rocket science wouldnt even try it
these dudes cant compare their focus is on a diet~me