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Subject: "Dear Hip-Hop: You took yourself way to seriously..." Previous topic | Next topic
imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 09:17 PM

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"Dear Hip-Hop: You took yourself way to seriously..."


  

          

... within the scope of music.

I mean lets be real what you did was some truly revolutionary shit, even if there were precedents to it decades before, it took you to really turn it into a true musical movement. I mean if we're honest with ourselves this latter day ressurection of electronic music no matter how inevitable it was, is indebted to you for setting the stage.

You took the bad boyness of rock to epic proportions that yacht rock couldn't even imagine. You turned a phrase with the ease that jazz cats spent lifetimes practicing to barely achieve. And the thing is that for the most part you did it unkowningly because you were so wrapped up in your isolationist type perception that all that existed in the world was you.

There were the rebels amongst you that brought in the outside influences of course, but only long enough to sample and take ownership of. Not that this was an intentional snipe mind you, but in the (proto) cultural value base it was what it was. It was taking ownership of music, in a way that was never imagined (except for you know those obscure european guys in suits who are otherwise irrelevant).

But that isolated view point kept you from seeing music *beyond how you could use it*. There was no broader context. Everything had to be placed within the hip-hop context. Everything had to be redefined. Except only you readily accepted those definitions. Outside of the circle nobody cared.

That of course didn't stop some of the actual redefinitons from happening. Much of the things you were once critiqued for have now been wholeheartedly embraced outside of hip-hop, as redefined by hip-hop. Take the drum break for example. All of the classic loops and breakbeats that come in all those presets with your software program today. Yeah you can thank hip-hop for cannonizing those. They sued you for looping it, then created an industry around looping!!! An industry!!!

While all this was happening you were so busy worried about protecting the real (while defining and redefining it) you missed the music. When you said it's bigger than hip-hop, you should have been talking about music. But you were talking about social things like how to present oneself in hip-hop. Only you cared about that. Everyone else just loved the beat.

Then there was all the fragmentation while trying to hold on to this definition of self. Jeeze louise. You couldn't find so much in fighting in a barrel of crabs sitting next to a pot like the one ol boy tried to cook bugs bunny in over an open fire. But then it hit you that all this keeping it real stuff didn't matter, and thank goodness for that, except that you replaced that not with music, but with fame. Now you're all going gaga over the fame teat.

Meanwhile what have you been doing musically. Either throwing back to times that nobody outside of yourself really cared about when they were hot in order to keep it real, or being owned by whatever sound is hot at the moment to try to boost your fame.

YOU YOU YOU!! It's all about you, very rarely the music. So stuck on yourself its any wonder everyone thinks you're in a rut. C'mon now, no need to run down all your pop star acheivements or talk about how one of the real heads dropped that dope LP. You know what the fuck I'm talking about. You don't think you do? Don't make me say it....

... oh alright.

That's why the outsiders have gotten better at the things that you do than you. Yup I said it. And I'm not talking better at making classic boom bap or some shit. I'm talking about making music. They are better at making music than you are. Cause that's what you do right hip-hop? Make music? That's what I'm talking about. The outsiders are better at making music with the tools you created than you are.

You're still sampling the records they browsed in their loop library when they first launced their cracked software. So they sample bees and shit (ping pong tables omg!! ) All your drums still sound the same. Well that's kinda cross the bored, but you don't even make an effort to hide it anymore. They weren't limited by copyright laws (or gave a fuck about them in most cases) because they didn't have to keep it real a dig up that hot loop to make a song. They just made a song, and then sampled you shouting "Whoa" to go over it. Think about that hip-hop. Then it becomes hot and you have to go to them as a guest to stay relevant. Think about that hip-hop.

You could learn a little about sacrifice hip-hop. Not that you haven't sacrificed a lot already, well socially. But musical sacrifice. I'm not saying go learn music theory, fuck that you deaded that shit when you came in the door. But I am saying stop taking yourself so damn serious. Take music as serious as you do yourself and maybe just maybe you might find the muse pushing you towards innovation again.

kthxbai

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
if i was hip-hop i'd take a restraining order out on you
Apr 18th 2012
1
I mean... need I say more than ^^^^
Apr 18th 2012
2
      Music/Musician you take yourself too seriously
Apr 18th 2012
3
           So what you're saying is you don't take music seriously... got it!!!
Apr 18th 2012
4
                from you
Apr 18th 2012
5
                me or my critiques?
Apr 18th 2012
7
                music is a crucial part of my life
Apr 18th 2012
6
                     holup holup... either speak for you or speak for hip-hop
Apr 18th 2012
8
                     read the post again as if its literally hiphop speaking
Apr 18th 2012
9
                          RE: read the post again as if its literally hiphop speaking
Apr 18th 2012
15
                               hip hop is fine man
Apr 18th 2012
18
                                    what exactly are you responding to with that?
Apr 18th 2012
19
                                         your laundry list of hip hops failures
Apr 18th 2012
21
                                              the laundry list in the OP is actually its successes
Apr 18th 2012
23
                                                   im officially in the twilight zone
Apr 18th 2012
25
                                                        that's as far as you made it isn't it
Apr 18th 2012
27
                                                             i read the whole thing before i posted
Apr 18th 2012
30
                     HOW DO YOU DIVORCE YOUR PARENT?
Apr 18th 2012
10
                          EVERYONE "divorces" their parents eventually
Apr 18th 2012
11
                               NERLTPUTPL
Apr 18th 2012
13
                                    that's y divorce was in quotes it's just the cycle
Apr 18th 2012
16
                                         question
Apr 18th 2012
17
                                              of course there are valid points
Apr 18th 2012
20
                                                   it's easy when you're not exposing the invalid ones
Apr 18th 2012
22
                                                        if ur entire premise is flawed what's the point?
Apr 18th 2012
26
                                                             so you contend that hip-hop is selfless
Apr 18th 2012
28
                                                                  it often is, certainly can be...
Apr 18th 2012
29
                                                                       that's that real shit right?
Apr 18th 2012
31
                                                                            i shoulda stopped at reply #3
Apr 19th 2012
42
RE: Dear Hip-Hop: You took yourself way to seriously...
Apr 18th 2012
12
Apr 18th 2012
14
      the proper response to this is
Apr 18th 2012
24
hip hop never affected music outside hip hop in any positive way
Apr 19th 2012
32
Interesting question here.....
Apr 19th 2012
34
      vijay iyer, robert glasper, jose james et al
Apr 19th 2012
35
      I thought about that when I heard Glasper's 'Afro Blue' w/Badu
Apr 19th 2012
37
      It obviously inspired ''metal''...
Apr 19th 2012
36
           i dont know if hip hops rhythmic sensibilities had a good influence
Apr 19th 2012
38
                Does modern non-sampling rap come from inside Hip-Hop though?
Apr 19th 2012
39
Great read.
Apr 19th 2012
33
this is a good post. good ideas here. philpot made it gay tho.
Apr 19th 2012
40
gay tho?
Apr 19th 2012
41
lol. stop. hip hop is in an a great place right now
Apr 19th 2012
43
yeah this thing seems to have a pretty specific lane
Apr 20th 2012
44
Brilliant...it's funny because earlier today I was thinking about
Apr 20th 2012
45
I'm curious...
Apr 21st 2012
46
this is a tremendous post by the way
Apr 22nd 2012
47
up for Sunday
Apr 22nd 2012
48

philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 09:23 PM

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1. "if i was hip-hop i'd take a restraining order out on you"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 09:25 PM

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2. "I mean... need I say more than ^^^^"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

entertain me with your allegations.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 09:28 PM

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3. "Music/Musician you take yourself too seriously"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 09:32 PM

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4. "So what you're saying is you don't take music seriously... got it!!!"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Now explain what your restraining order is protecting you against? Music? You want hip-hop protected from music. Is that what you're saying?
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 09:35 PM

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5. "from you"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 09:41 PM

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7. "me or my critiques?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

i assume you mean the critiques, which you know is dogmatic, which is again a sign of being to full of yourself.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 09:38 PM

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6. "music is a crucial part of my life"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

if u think that's undeserved bc of the scope of my taste...cool

but i dont post abt every song i listen to and enjoy

>Now explain what your restraining order is protecting you
>against?

your stalkerish letter to hip-hop


Music? You want hip-hop protected from music. Is
>that what you're saying?

hip hop IS music, wtf are u saying?

youre the one who divorced hip hop from music, not me

>________
>Big PEMFin H & z's
>█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
>"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one
>thing, a musician." © Miles Davis
>
>"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 09:44 PM

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8. "holup holup... either speak for you or speak for hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

i'm not talking about philpot, i'm talking about hip-hop, based on you saying if you were hip-hop.... blah blah blah. if we break out of character this isn't gonna work at all.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 09:48 PM

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9. "read the post again as if its literally hiphop speaking"
In response to Reply # 8
Wed Apr-18-12 09:48 PM by philpot

  

          

point's the same

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 10:06 PM

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15. "RE: read the post again as if its literally hiphop speaking"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

then i have to question whether you read the og post, because i never took music away from hip-hop, and gave it plenty of credit for the musical innovations. i even distinctly through lines in there to keep it from being driven down the hip-hop production versus musicianship hole. it was open and honest criticism. if you think that's stalkerish, it sounds like you're projecting to be a victim of something i've done rather than look at yourself.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:14 PM

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18. "hip hop is fine man"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

the reports of its demise are highly exaggerated

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 10:16 PM

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19. "what exactly are you responding to with that?"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          


________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 10:23 PM

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21. "your laundry list of hip hops failures"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

as compared to "music" of course

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 10:27 PM

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23. "the laundry list in the OP is actually its successes"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

and i never compare it to 'music'.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
21673 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 10:29 PM

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25. "im officially in the twilight zone"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

your first fucking point reads "within the scope of music" hiphop took itself too seriously

use language all u want, shit's clear see thru

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 10:39 PM

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27. "that's as far as you made it isn't it"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

"hip-hop" and "music" in the same sentence which is the lead off sentence of a post from imcvspl.... fuck that dude.

Meanwhile I acknowledged that:

* hip-hop did something rock couldn't
* hip-hop did something jazz couldn't
* hip-hop did something pioneer electronic artists couldn't
* hip-hop paved the way for the birth of industries
* hip-hop paved the way for this era of electronic acceptance
* hip-hop trumped music theory

that's all i remember without rereading. i said all of that though. and the bulk of my critique is that its self importance hindered it, one thing.

maybe in the twilight zone in bizarro world when you say the laundry list of one thing it actually means the opposite.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                        
philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:57 PM

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30. "i read the whole thing before i posted"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:52 PM

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10. "HOW DO YOU DIVORCE YOUR PARENT?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Like how you do that. Maybe if your parent was abusive. But that's hardly the case. If anything this is one of the most liberal parents in the world.

But you don't think of music as your parent do you. You think you're equals. Again taking yourself so serious, you can't even honor thy parents.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:57 PM

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11. "EVERYONE "divorces" their parents eventually"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

hip hop has its own kids now

you addressed that in your letter

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:01 PM

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13. "NERLTPUTPL"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

Noone Ever Really Leaves Their Parents Until Their Parents Leave
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:07 PM

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16. "that's y divorce was in quotes it's just the cycle"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

decades ago somebody was writing this letter to rock and roll...or jazz...or something else

again, you divorced hiphop from music first

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 10:10 PM

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17. "question"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

do you think there are no valid points made in the op? just wondering.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:19 PM

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20. "of course there are valid points"
In response to Reply # 17
Wed Apr-18-12 10:21 PM by philpot

  

          

hide behind them

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:24 PM

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22. "it's easy when you're not exposing the invalid ones"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

you should know by now i always leave those.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:30 PM

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26. "if ur entire premise is flawed what's the point?"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:41 PM

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28. "so you contend that hip-hop is selfless"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

care to site some proof?

that of course based on my main premise being that hip-hop was too self-absorbed.

oh and 'in the context of music" was as opposed to "in a social context" which is a completely different discussion.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                        
philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:52 PM

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29. "it often is, certainly can be..."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>care to site some proof?

the wealth of free music that hip hop artists have made available for free

the communal spirit ive seen among ppl ive known who love hiphop


>that of course based on my main premise being that hip-hop was
>too self-absorbed.

"in the context of music"


>oh and 'in the context of music" was as opposed to "in a
>social context" which is a completely different

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Wed Apr-18-12 11:01 PM

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31. "that's that real shit right?"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

>the wealth of free music that hip hop artists have made
>available for free
>
>the communal spirit ive seen among ppl ive known who love
>hiphop

FOH!! LOL!

>>that of course based on my main premise being that hip-hop
>was
>>too self-absorbed.
>
>"in the context of music"
>
>
>>oh and 'in the context of music" was as opposed to "in a
>>social context" which is a completely different

Are you done? Or should I assume these snippets form the totality of what you took from what i wrote.

oh and I don't have a ™ on 'music'. it's just you know this word that describes you know any and all 'sysstems' of 'organizing' 'sounds' *shrug*

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Thu Apr-19-12 04:51 PM

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42. "i shoulda stopped at reply #3"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

pointless

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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Wed Apr-18-12 09:59 PM

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12. "RE: Dear Hip-Hop: You took yourself way to seriously..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Why is everyone writing an essay on hip hop?


  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Wed Apr-18-12 10:02 PM

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14. ""
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

>Why is everyone writing an essay on hip hop?

I got tired of just addressing MC's though.

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42225 posts
Wed Apr-18-12 10:28 PM

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24. "the proper response to this is"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

™ Common circa 1994.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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GumDrops
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Thu Apr-19-12 02:56 AM

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32. "hip hop never affected music outside hip hop in any positive way"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Apr-19-12 03:13 AM by GumDrops

  

          

not in the way that jazz, or soul, or blues, or R&B did anyway. i cant see (m)any of the ways hip hop influenced music outside hip hop in a good way. theres a few examples here and there, a few blips, but apart from that, nah.

though im obv thinking of how it didnt affect any of the genres already existing before it in a good way.

cos without hip hop you wouldnt have drum n bass, grime, dubstep, and half the electronic stuff happening today (though dance music is obv just as important, probably more important in that context, and dance is actually more fluid in terms of how it can be appropriated, hip hop influences tend to end up in pretty restricted ways, like how you have those awful 'hip hop drums' in some of lana del rays songs) etc. hip hop and dance music are basically the most important/influential musics of the last 30 years. and part of the reason for that is cos they werent made in the traditional way music before them was made and it didnt sound like it.

'While all this was happening you were so busy worried about protecting the real (while defining and redefining it) you missed the music. When you said it's bigger than hip-hop, you should have been talking about music. But you were talking about social things like how to present oneself in hip-hop. Only you cared about that. Everyone else just loved the beat.'

^^thats just cos a lot of rappers didnt have anything to say for themselves other than self reflexive content. well that and also just cos when you think about how hip hop started as battling, and about actual physical battles in the bronx, its no wonder it carried on in the lyrics, with rappers more interested in taking apart other rappers rather than talk about something bigger than that.

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Thu Apr-19-12 06:03 AM

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34. "Interesting question here....."
In response to Reply # 32


          

Did hip hop influence modern jazz, rnb, rocknroll, blues?

I remember the first time I heard Bruce Springsteen's 'Streets of Philadelphia'. 1993....not even a great song. But you could tell someone was trying to incorporate a hip hop style in that production. At the time, I figured it was Bruce.

The rest of the 90's you heard hip hop inspired 'breaks' like the OP suggests, creeping into pop and easy listening. Now it's absolutely commonplace. Even in new country.

But modern jazz and blues are mostly defined as throwback scenes anyways. So hip hop CANT really influence them because their nostalgic base is aiming to recreate music from the past.

Hip hop used to be a joke to outsiders....on par with the reputation of a genre like dub-step. Noone would take you seriously. Everyone takes it seriously now....60 year old engineers and studio rats respect it alot more now than 20 years ago.

  

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ninjitsu
Member since Oct 07th 2011
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Thu Apr-19-12 06:42 AM

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35. "vijay iyer, robert glasper, jose james et al"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

all are making forward thinking jazz music that is hip-hop influenced.

  

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Dr Claw
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Thu Apr-19-12 09:31 AM

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37. "I thought about that when I heard Glasper's 'Afro Blue' w/Badu"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

>all are making forward thinking jazz music that is hip-hop
>influenced.

Mongo Santamaria's original and the spinoffs followed one motif for the most part. But when I heard Glasper's... I was thinking, "someone may not have thought of that arrangement if not for rap music".

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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Thu Apr-19-12 06:44 AM

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36. "It obviously inspired ''metal''..."
In response to Reply # 34


          

And I'm not just talking about Nu-metal but also stuff like groove-thrash (think Pantera) was indirectly or directly inspired by Hip-Hop's rhythmic sensibilities.

And just like metal-influences, blatant Hip-Hop influences are useless outside of its own context with vERY few exceptions IMO...

  

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GumDrops
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Thu Apr-19-12 09:55 AM

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38. "i dont know if hip hops rhythmic sensibilities had a good influence"
In response to Reply # 36
Thu Apr-19-12 10:00 AM by GumDrops

  

          

when you consider the standard boom bap beat is really not actually very complex, its the most basic, repetitive beat ever. it might be funky, but its really simplistic. i loved my bloody valentines loveless for example but sampled 'gritty' drums used by non-rap artists often just sounded leaden, like it was weighing the rest of the parts down. the best example of hip hop on jazz i can think of is MMW's the dropper, as it was engineered like a rap album, but they didnt try and sound hip-hop in any other way. i wish more people did that. they were smart.

new jack swing i guess was made more funky by hip hop drums but once hip hop got out of the funky drummer era, and boiled itself down to its more essential parts, the 'hip hop beat' started to get pretty simple and ploddy (though obv not as ploddy as eminem beats). im having trouble recalling good examples of jazz, soul or rock using hip hop production in a good way.

ironically i think modern non sampled rap has had a much more positive effect, as its easier to adapt by producers in a different way. its much more conducive to putting your own spin on it than boom bap. no wonder that hip hop has really entrenched itself more around the globe and spawned more interesting regional rap spin offs since boom bap started to wane (thats my theory at least).

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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Thu Apr-19-12 10:13 AM

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39. "Does modern non-sampling rap come from inside Hip-Hop though?"
In response to Reply # 38


          

You could make a case for Timbaland and Neptunes and maybe even the Cash Money and Swizz Beats-sounds being a modern-as opposed to 80's (think Mantronix)-foundation for that but at least Timbaland sounded very inspired by "EDM" and many of the newer producers people dig sound like they-intentionally or not-are inspired more by 90's "IDM" than Hip-Hop.

BTW, I have a theory that one of the reasons electronic dance music has come to stay this time in the US is because unlike the attempt of making electronica the new cutting-edge thing in the 90's ("Electronica is the new punk/rock/whatever") it has entered the US scene through the *mainstream*/pop-scene with the producers I mentioned above setting the stage for the sound and then entering the underground styles from "above" rather than the opposite which is less organic and more aimed at "cool" and "eclectic" music-fans building the foundation. In the 90's, that pretty much meant guitar-centered indie-rock fans in the US for whom it was nothing but a temporary diversion...

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Thu Apr-19-12 05:38 AM

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33. "Great read."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Apr-19-12 05:43 AM by denny

          

Alot of the nuances and allusions are completely accurate to me....

But I fail to see how the isolationism and identity-driven aspects of hip hop culture aren't comparable to those in other emerging genres of any artform...film, painting, fashion. Best example would be rocknroll. You addressed the comparison without seeing that many of the characteristics you identify are easily applicable to the 'fashion' or 'attitude' in the emergence of rocknroll.

I don't think hip hop, as a genre, is unique in how you've described it here. But I think the description is very nuanced and profound.

Miles called bebop 'a lifestyle'. It'd be easier for me to name genres that HAVENT been referred to as a 'lifestyle' while they were gaining steam.

  

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mathmagic
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Thu Apr-19-12 02:50 PM

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40. "this is a good post. good ideas here. philpot made it gay tho."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Jordan!

  

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philpot
Member since Apr 01st 2007
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Thu Apr-19-12 04:50 PM

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41. "gay tho?"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

________________________________________________________________
whenever you did these things to the least of my brothers you did them to me

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Thu Apr-19-12 10:33 PM

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43. "lol. stop. hip hop is in an a great place right now"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and if you prefer your electronic/dub-step/beat-gen musicians more good for you. as you stated. they are eating/creating from the dish hip hop served the world

  

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sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
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Fri Apr-20-12 12:34 AM

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44. "yeah this thing seems to have a pretty specific lane"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

of hip-hop in mind among more than ever.

  

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3d1gg4
Member since Jan 12th 2010
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Fri Apr-20-12 02:58 PM

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45. "Brilliant...it's funny because earlier today I was thinking about"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

how there are still quite a few "areas" Hip Hop sampling hasn't experimented enough with IMO like ambient music, echoes, wordless vocalization and similar stuff
but yeah I agree Hip Hop is in dire need of a new shift sonically

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++last man standing takes a seat+++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.last.fm/user/chillhood

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
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Sat Apr-21-12 10:20 PM

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46. "I'm curious..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

What specifically would you change? No snark just trying to understand

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
2514 posts
Sun Apr-22-12 12:58 AM

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47. "this is a tremendous post by the way"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Apr-22-12 01:06 AM by forgivenphoenix

  

          

to be honest, i don't think that hip-hop could have been so outstanding not only lyrically but musically if it *hadn't* been 'outcast' from the clique of 'traditional music'.

the whole mainstream acceptance of hip-hop was born out of a need to contextualize the energy in hip-hop music into something more streamlined and in a way pop and palatteable and smooth than what was generally accepted as pop or traditional music.

i agree with you that the lack of traditional 'practice' or methods to make hip-hop have hurt hip-hop because there's both no formal way to train people to develop techniques to further the art form and there's also no means to de-construct the process on a wide scale to determine better and more expressive ways, both in terms of intensity and in variety, to make the music.

i think in the past, hip-hop could get away with the formality of the informalness of the development of skills to make it because not only was the culture more contained, there were only so many outlets to consume it or learn about it, so it was kind of self-policed. now, there are so many outlets and means to learn that there aren't the 'guides' to point towards what is good or not.

hip-hop could develop an actual culture, if the ways of the old were passed on to the new generation. kinda how producers used to come up in New York where a producer would find a sound, get some popularity, buy some equipment that most people wouldn't have access to and share their knowledge with up-and-coming producers who had an ear for what was popular. in that approach, the older producer could pass on their ear for quality and their tried-and-true methods of the actual producing and the younger producers could build off of that.

now, since the technology to make the music is so affordable and accessible, kids can make beats, ship it off to youtube or a blog to get approval in really 'not enough time'. i think to get good at something you need the isolation of practice to not only make mistakes but also to develop your craft. it's not desirable in terms of making affecting music for the creators to gain fame before skill because everyone wants fame, but if they gain it too early, it's all they will know how to do is to please the audience rather than develop the craft to share the thoughts of the creators with their audience.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
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Sun Apr-22-12 04:14 PM

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48. "up for Sunday"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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