Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby The Lesson topic #2685173

Subject: "Nas's "Undying Love" sounds like response to Big's "I Got a Story to Tel..." Previous topic | Next topic
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2244 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 03:22 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Nas's "Undying Love" sounds like response to Big's "I Got a Story to Tel..."


  

          

Nas's "Undying Love" sounds like response to Big's "I Got a Story to Tell."

The albums came out during the same time period, so I doubt it's an actual response, but it seems like Nas was tired of hearing all that KoNY shit.

He wanted to prove he was the better storyteller. But really, it lacks the charisma and wit of Biggie's story.

Big's got him beat on the storytelling tip.

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Nas's "Undying Love" came out 2 years later, very much could
Apr 12th 2012
1
I'm not sure of the exact timeline, but if Nas knew Carmen was foul
Apr 12th 2012
4
      It's around that time when he found out. Jay-z dropped
Apr 12th 2012
7
      i think the 'babyseat' line is what was most disrespectful
Apr 12th 2012
14
           Thank you
Apr 12th 2012
17
           Yeap, I mean that's just desperate to win somehow
Apr 13th 2012
21
lml how do you tell a story of a chick cheating on you with charisma
Apr 12th 2012
2
IMO, even down to the beats being a similar vibe...
Apr 12th 2012
3
huh? you can tell any kind of story with charisma whether it makes
Apr 12th 2012
8
      How often does that happen in a sad story song though?
Apr 12th 2012
9
Nas was just biting again.
Apr 12th 2012
5
Again?? I think a kangaroo must've bitten off your wanker, wanker.
Apr 12th 2012
6
      What was that trash about a gun that he jacked from Monch and 2pac?
Apr 12th 2012
10
           Nas did feign ignorance to the OK track, but Pac's was released after.
Apr 12th 2012
11
                lmao I forgot all about that. I remember the chat transcript now, awesom...
Apr 12th 2012
12
                     Yeah, as a fan, that was the most I've ever been disappointed by Nas
Apr 12th 2012
13
                          RE: Yeah, as a fan, that was the most I've ever been disappointed by Nas
Apr 12th 2012
15
This is beyond false
Apr 12th 2012
16
It's just my observation.
Apr 13th 2012
18
RE: It's just my observation.
Apr 14th 2012
33
RE: This is beyond false
Apr 13th 2012
19
It was a pretty mediocre story though
Apr 13th 2012
23
      fair point, but it ain't about the 'story', it's about the 'telling'
Apr 13th 2012
24
           For sure, like I said I respect the skill in which he told it in
Apr 14th 2012
29
the original la-di da-di is better than undying love nm
Apr 13th 2012
20
By a country mile.
Apr 13th 2012
22
RE: This is beyond false
Apr 14th 2012
27
BIG is not a better story teller than Nas
Apr 13th 2012
25
I disagree. Provide examples of while Big was alive that Nas
Apr 13th 2012
26
      NY State of Mind
Apr 14th 2012
30
      Ok let's pretend It Was Written wasn't full of story gold.....right.
Apr 14th 2012
32
      Lol...so now we have to stick to while BIG was alive?
Apr 14th 2012
34
NAs' best stories are on it was written
Apr 14th 2012
28
She do be lookin weaker now... n/m
Apr 14th 2012
31

zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 03:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "Nas's "Undying Love" came out 2 years later, very much could"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

have been a response or just close to what Nas was actually going through with Carmen

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2244 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 04:11 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "I'm not sure of the exact timeline, but if Nas knew Carmen was foul"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

even then, why take offense at the Jay-Z beef years later?

Or was Nas simply playing that card to the public for sympathy in the battle?

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 04:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "It's around that time when he found out. Jay-z dropped"
In response to Reply # 4
Thu Apr-12-12 05:12 PM by zuma1986

  

          

"Is That Yo Bitch?" which was all about him f'n Carmen. Nas didn't particularly get made at Jay-z for f'n his girl when "The Takeover" and "Supa Ugly" came out. I mean he was already diss'n her on Stillmatic ("U Da Man" & "One Mic"), which I'm pretty sure he wrote before the Summer Jam thing b/c he was still just going subliminal at Jay-z on those tracks. He I'm sure like a lot of ppl (Including Jay's mom) thought it was low when he went there in such detail (Talking about putting condoms on the baby seat is pretty far imo)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
mwasi kitoko
Member since Jul 15th 2007
60768 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 05:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "i think the 'babyseat' line is what was most disrespectful"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

not so much that he was talking about carmen

and i've said it before and i'll say it again
bringing up carmen was some weird groupie shit on jay's part.

www.royallegacy.org
http://therapfest.com/up-next-artists/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Anonymous
Charter member
23220 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 09:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "Thank you"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


>and i've said it before and i'll say it again
>bringing up carmen was some weird groupie shit on jay's part.

And that why lines like in You're Da Man have to sting Jay just as hard as Ether.

"Now you want to hang with n*gg*s I hung with, fuck bitches I hit"

Most people can't read between the line though so they don't understand shit like that.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Fri Apr-13-12 10:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "Yeap, I mean that's just desperate to win somehow"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

I mean Jay-z tried to defend it by saying Nas calling him gay was a lowblow too but that's in tons of battleraps (IE//No Vaseline). Going after dude's kid like that is just crazy, imagine somebody saying that about Blue Ivy now. He'd lose his mind.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

micMajestic
Charter member
22938 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 03:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "lml how do you tell a story of a chick cheating on you with charisma"
In response to Reply # 0


          

>Nas's "Undying Love" sounds like response to Big's "I Got a
>Story to Tell."
>
>The albums came out during the same time period, so I doubt
>it's an actual response, but it seems like Nas was tired of
>hearing all that KoNY shit.
>
>He wanted to prove he was the better storyteller. But really,
>it lacks the charisma and wit of Biggie's story.
>
>Big's got him beat on the storytelling tip.

and wit? I prefer "I Got A Story To Tell" but really aren't comparable to me because the songs convey different emotions.
_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is THE best hip-hop related internet radio show
Catch up http://pncradio.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2244 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 04:10 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "IMO, even down to the beats being a similar vibe..."
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Apr-12-12 04:13 PM by cidolfas

  

          

Big's might seem less sinister, but there's still the aura of danger, but with the added humor to downplay the suspense in a subtle kind of way.

I haven't listened to "Undying Love" in years, but today it just clicked that Nas was aping Big's prototype, putting a Nas spin on it.

This isn't a crack at either of them, but I think a lot of times people forget how incredibly natural Big was at storytelling.

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 04:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "huh? you can tell any kind of story with charisma whether it makes"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

you look bad/vulnerable/weak or not, see: much of Richard Pryor's standup career.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
micMajestic
Charter member
22938 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 05:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "How often does that happen in a sad story song though?"
In response to Reply # 8


          

>you look bad/vulnerable/weak or not, see: much of Richard
>Pryor's standup career.
>

Of course there are exceptions but it's an unrealistic expectation for that type of story. Who the hell listens to a song called "Undying Love" looking for charisma and wit? That's some psychotic shit lol.
_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is THE best hip-hop related internet radio show
Catch up http://pncradio.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

CondoM
Member since Aug 20th 2006
9881 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 04:37 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "Nas was just biting again."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2244 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 04:43 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "Again?? I think a kangaroo must've bitten off your wanker, wanker."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
CondoM
Member since Aug 20th 2006
9881 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 05:08 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "What was that trash about a gun that he jacked from Monch and 2pac?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2244 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 05:11 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "Nas did feign ignorance to the OK track, but Pac's was released after."
In response to Reply # 10
Thu Apr-12-12 05:11 PM by cidolfas

  

          

All three are awesome anyway.

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
CondoM
Member since Aug 20th 2006
9881 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 05:17 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "lmao I forgot all about that. I remember the chat transcript now, awesom..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

http://www.last.fm/user/_CondoM_/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2244 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 05:24 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "Yeah, as a fan, that was the most I've ever been disappointed by Nas"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

As much of a student of the game as he was during that time period, there's no conceivable way he hadn't heard of Organized Konfusion/Pharoahe Monch, esp. with both coming out of Queens.

*Maybe* he didn't hear "Stray Bullet" but I don't even believe that.

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
go mack
Member since May 02nd 2008
4020 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 08:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "RE: Yeah, as a fan, that was the most I've ever been disappointed by Nas"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

especially when they were on the wake-up show freestyle together
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGVzNvwlrrI

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Anonymous
Charter member
23220 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 09:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "This is beyond false"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>
>Big's got him beat on the storytelling tip.

I love how when and artist puts a word like "story" into their title it gives the dumb ass people a chance to jump at an obvious opinion.

Listen man, there is not an MC in the same realm of Nas when it comes to storytelling period.

From entire tracks like Undying Love to single verse like in The Message, this dude tells a story with attention to detail that other MCs just don't have.

Big is a cool storyteller but his joints are fun little stories...Nas is writing on another level than these other MCs in this category.

There is a reason why I Gave You Power is beyond the best out of the three gun metaphor joints and that's because Nas went deeper with the metaphor and story and actually gave the gun human characteristics while having a moral to the story, which had a beginning, climax, and ending.

I guess people just don't understand the art form. People on here will probably say Snoops Lodi Dodi is a better story joint than Undying Love.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2244 posts
Fri Apr-13-12 10:43 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "It's just my observation."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

>I love how when and artist puts a word like "story" into their
>title it gives the dumb ass people a chance to jump at an
>obvious opinion.

That has nothing to do with it. If you're calling me a dumbass, that's your ignorance for getting heated about an "opinion column" style post.

>Listen man, there is not an MC in the same realm of Nas when
>it comes to storytelling period.

He's definitely up there. There's a lot of amazing storytellers in rap music. I think Big and Nas are probably my two favorite, for different reasons.

>From entire tracks like Undying Love to single verse like in
>The Message, this dude tells a story with attention to detail
>that other MCs just don't have.

"The Message" isn't much of a story, imo. Nas does have intangibles and creates details that others would miss. But he doesn't have the same intangibles as Biggie. They approach things differently.

>Big is a cool storyteller but his joints are fun little
>stories...Nas is writing on another level than these other MCs
>in this category.

Not really.

>There is a reason why I Gave You Power is beyond the best out
>of the three gun metaphor joints and that's because Nas went
>deeper with the metaphor and story and actually gave the gun
>human characteristics while having a moral to the story, which
>had a beginning, climax, and ending.

IGYP is the best for the reasons you listed. But Pac wasn't a great storyteller. He also had a little help on the idea from OK.

>I guess people just don't understand the art form. People on
>here will probably say Snoops Lodi Dodi is a better story
>joint than Undying Love.

Again, if this is a jab at me for an opinion piece, that's your ignorance. I understand the artform plenty. "Undying Love" isn't the best story track of all time.

Perhaps we should look more in-depth at the two songs? You know, to have an actual discussion, instead of diversion.

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Anonymous
Charter member
23220 posts
Sat Apr-14-12 10:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "RE: It's just my observation."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>>I love how when and artist puts a word like "story" into
>their
>>title it gives the dumb ass people a chance to jump at an
>>obvious opinion.
>
>That has nothing to do with it. If you're calling me a
>dumbass, that's your ignorance for getting heated about an
>"opinion column" style post.
>


Youre the one catching feelings because I wasn't even directing that at you. But there are many people with that cliche way of thinking.


>>Listen man, there is not an MC in the same realm of Nas when
>>it comes to storytelling period.
>
>He's definitely up there. There's a lot of amazing
>storytellers in rap music. I think Big and Nas are probably my
>two favorite, for different reasons.
>

That's cool.


>>From entire tracks like Undying Love to single verse like in
>>The Message, this dude tells a story with attention to
>detail
>>that other MCs just don't have.
>
>"The Message" isn't much of a story, imo. Nas does have
>intangibles and creates details that others would miss. But he
>doesn't have the same intangibles as Biggie. They approach
>things differently.
>

The Message is an example of how Nas will randomly tell stories in songs and have the story be a metaphor for what the song is about and it will relate to the other verses.


>>Big is a cool storyteller but his joints are fun little
>>stories...Nas is writing on another level than these other
>MCs
>>in this category.
>
>Not really.
>

Really.


>>There is a reason why I Gave You Power is beyond the best
>out
>>of the three gun metaphor joints and that's because Nas went
>>deeper with the metaphor and story and actually gave the gun
>>human characteristics while having a moral to the story,
>which
>>had a beginning, climax, and ending.
>
>IGYP is the best for the reasons you listed. But Pac wasn't a
>great storyteller. He also had a little help on the idea from
>OK.
>
>>I guess people just don't understand the art form. People
>on
>>here will probably say Snoops Lodi Dodi is a better story
>>joint than Undying Love.
>
>Again, if this is a jab at me for an opinion piece, that's
>your ignorance. I understand the artform plenty. "Undying
>Love" isn't the best story track of all time.
>

It's not a jab at you. It's a state to whoever takes offense to it, which you did. And please show me where I said Undying Love is the best story track of all time. Fact is, it's still better than IGASTT when we break down the detail and emotion put into the story.

>Perhaps we should look more in-depth at the two songs? You
>know, to have an actual discussion, instead of diversion.

Go ahead...I'm not diverting a damn thing. Undying Love is better in the sense of the set-up of the story, the details, the emotion, the imagery, the setting, damn near every aspect of storytelling. I won't vouch for the hook but every other part is better than IGASTT.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
j clyde morris
Member since Oct 23rd 2004
1265 posts
Fri Apr-13-12 10:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "RE: This is beyond false"
In response to Reply # 16
Fri Apr-13-12 10:44 AM by j clyde morris

          

Oh, and don't forget that he told entire story BACKWARDS!

www.soundcloud.com/j-clyde
www.twitter.com/JClyde757
IG: @JClyde757

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Fri Apr-13-12 11:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "It was a pretty mediocre story though"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Although I totally have respect for the skills he displayed on that song, plot was definitely not one of them. Put it in order and all it is is he gets a message that they found a guy they're looking for, gets a blowjob, gets a call to go downstairs, smokes and kills the guy. Not exactly "Shootouts" or even "Get Down"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
j clyde morris
Member since Oct 23rd 2004
1265 posts
Fri Apr-13-12 11:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "fair point, but it ain't about the 'story', it's about the 'telling'"
In response to Reply # 23


          

shit, "Children's Story" isn't really that elaborate of a tale, but the way Slick Rick told it was undeniable. Same thing with "Rewind"

www.soundcloud.com/j-clyde
www.twitter.com/JClyde757
IG: @JClyde757

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Sat Apr-14-12 05:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "For sure, like I said I respect the skill in which he told it in"
In response to Reply # 24
Sat Apr-14-12 05:14 PM by zuma1986

  

          

But imagine if he did a song like "I Gave You Power" backwards.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Bblock
Member since Feb 20th 2012
6243 posts
Fri Apr-13-12 10:53 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "the original la-di da-di is better than undying love nm"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

life always offers you a 2nd chance...it's called tomorrow. use it wisely

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2244 posts
Fri Apr-13-12 10:56 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "By a country mile."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Also, Slick Rick's verse on "Auditorium" is more imaginative than I've heard Nas be in years.

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Sat Apr-14-12 11:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "RE: This is beyond false"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

I agree 100%

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

cjr2221
Member since Sep 04th 2011
1790 posts
Fri Apr-13-12 12:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "BIG is not a better story teller than Nas"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
cidolfas
Member since Nov 29th 2006
2244 posts
Fri Apr-13-12 12:43 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "I disagree. Provide examples of while Big was alive that Nas"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

got him on storytelling.

_________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Sat Apr-14-12 07:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "NY State of Mind"
In response to Reply # 26


          

need any more ?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Brotha Sun
Member since Dec 31st 2009
6778 posts
Sat Apr-14-12 08:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "Ok let's pretend It Was Written wasn't full of story gold.....right."
In response to Reply # 26


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Anonymous
Charter member
23220 posts
Sat Apr-14-12 10:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "Lol...so now we have to stick to while BIG was alive?"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

Ok

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

201cue
Member since Jan 04th 2007
2204 posts
Sat Apr-14-12 12:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "NAs' best stories are on it was written"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Shootouts being my personal fave, and The Setup being more in the vain of what youre talking about in this post here, just, better....

--------------------------------------
I ain't NEVER seen a hungry, happy muthaf*cka!

Heavy Ro'
Jay Rock - Redemption
Roc Marci - RR2
Travis Scott - Astroworld
Taz Arnold - rAd americA

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
kwez
Member since Aug 10th 2003
11774 posts
Sat Apr-14-12 08:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "She do be lookin weaker now... n/m"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby The Lesson topic #2685173 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com