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Lobby The Lesson topic #2684840

Subject: "Jazz heads, I need your help on Charles Mingus." Previous topic | Next topic
CaptainRook
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Wed Apr-11-12 10:25 PM

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"Jazz heads, I need your help on Charles Mingus."


  

          

I'm getting more and more into jazz music and developing more favorite artists. I got broken in on Miles Davis and then moved on to John Coltrane (not to say that I don't check for Miles or Trane any more, but now I'm ready to expand).

Charles Mingus is the next dude on deck. I've heard some stuff of his and dude is INCREDIBLE. It's amazing to me that he's not more known on the level of Miles, Trane, Dizzy, Bird, Monk, or at least Sonny Rollins or Max Roach.

Anyway, I want to begin adding some of Mingus' music to my collection and I wanted to know what is the Charles Mingus' defining album? Like many claim that "Kind of Blue" was more or less, Miles Davis defining album and "Love Supreme" was Coltrane's defining album. What album is that must have album for Mingus?

Does any know/have an opinion?

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Black Saint and The Sinner Lady
Apr 11th 2012
1
^ top 10 album (regardless of genre) of all time.
Apr 11th 2012
4
cosign
Apr 12th 2012
16
I'll say Mingus Ah Um
Apr 11th 2012
2
That's because Let My Children Hear Music is gorgeous
Apr 12th 2012
7
seconded
Apr 12th 2012
11
came in here specifically to suggest 'Let my children hear music'
Apr 12th 2012
18
I can't say it's defining...
Apr 11th 2012
3
I really liked "Mingus at Antibes" & The Quartet "Jazz at Massey Hall"
Apr 11th 2012
5
Ah Um is prolly the best place to start
Apr 12th 2012
6
Mingus Ah Um is probably THE Mingus album to get...
Apr 12th 2012
8
I've never heard a bad Mingus record
Apr 12th 2012
9
RE: I came in here to say this^^^
Apr 12th 2012
13
dont mind me.. i just bookmarked this poast..
Apr 12th 2012
10
i cut my teeth on Mingus Ah Um
Apr 12th 2012
12
agree on Wayne Shorter
Apr 12th 2012
20
      RE: agree on Wayne Shorter
Apr 12th 2012
21
whichever one has 'fables of faubus'
Apr 12th 2012
14
RE: Yeah, that narrows it down.
Apr 12th 2012
17
      well how many albums contain that tune?
Apr 12th 2012
19
           RE: More than one.
Apr 12th 2012
26
Mingus x5 aka Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus
Apr 12th 2012
15
RE: Jazz heads, I need your help on Charles Mingus.
Apr 12th 2012
22
easily my favorite Jazz artist
Apr 12th 2012
23
Check Mingus' version of "A Foggy Day"
Apr 12th 2012
24
      hell just get the "CHARLES MINGUS QUINTET & MAX ROACH lp"
Apr 12th 2012
25
Thanks to all who chimed in. Now I have some ideas about which
Apr 14th 2012
27
i started with black saint and sinner lady and haven't even moved on yet
Apr 14th 2012
28
RE: i started with black saint and sinner lady and haven't even moved on...
Apr 14th 2012
29
      RE: i started with black saint and sinner lady and haven't even moved on...
Apr 15th 2012
30

imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Wed Apr-11-12 10:27 PM

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1. "Black Saint and The Sinner Lady"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

But very different from Miles in terms of definitive album for an artist as you will find out when you hear it.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Ghetto Black
Member since Dec 24th 2004
10172 posts
Wed Apr-11-12 10:54 PM

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4. "^ top 10 album (regardless of genre) of all time."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22151 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 01:59 PM

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16. "cosign"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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Bumaye
Member since Jul 28th 2005
800 posts
Wed Apr-11-12 10:46 PM

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2. "I'll say Mingus Ah Um"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Although it probably depends on what you mean by "defining." The most popular answers are Black Saint and the Sinner Lady, Mingus Dynasty, and Mingus Ah Um. Mingus himself really liked to push Let My Children Hear Music toward the end of his life.

I go with Mingus Ah Um because it gives you all of the trademark Mingus-isms (in melody, harmony, interplay, rhythm, and style) with some of the most recognizable Mingus tunes. It doesn't aspire to the grandness of programmatic scale of Black Saint of Let My Children, but it articulates its awesomeness over a set series of tunes. Hence, with you mentioning Kind of Blue off the bat, this is (to me) the parallel Mingus album.

I've always felt that Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus (aka Five Mingus) is a really good gateway album for Mingus without watering down the artistry at all.

  

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Duval Spit
Member since Jan 21st 2009
3355 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 12:14 AM

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7. "That's because Let My Children Hear Music is gorgeous"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

<----

Larry Otis!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeM89CITvMc

and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

  

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hardware
Member since May 22nd 2007
42304 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 10:03 AM

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11. "seconded"
In response to Reply # 2


          

  

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vee-lover
Member since Jul 30th 2007
20388 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 02:01 PM

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18. "came in here specifically to suggest 'Let my children hear music'"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

don't know if its his signature album

but

its certainly my favorite and the 1st record I heard by him

grassrootsphilosopher

  

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tREBLEFREE
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Wed Apr-11-12 10:53 PM

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3. "I can't say it's defining..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

but "Cumbia & Jazz Fusion" by him is THAT shit.


DVS Jackson, Esq. - DVS for Alderman
1st Single Available Now:
http://windimoto.bandcamp.com/album/follow-me-ep
Album coming soon!

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Wed Apr-11-12 11:37 PM

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5. "I really liked "Mingus at Antibes" & The Quartet "Jazz at Massey Hall""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If you're looking for live stuff of his

  

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Duval Spit
Member since Jan 21st 2009
3355 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 12:12 AM

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6. "Ah Um is prolly the best place to start"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My favorite is Blues & Roots

The critical choice is always Black Saint & the Sinner Lady.


Of the three I'd say Blues & Roots is the one you'll find the most similarities to in the rest of the catalog.

Lots to check though:
If you like Ah Um and Blues & Roots
check out
Pithecanthropus Erectus
and
Oh Yeah

If you like Black Saint & the Sinner Lady
go with
Tijuana Moods
and
Cumbia & Jazz Fusion

To branch out
find the extended version of the Money Jungle album
Mingus at Antibes
and "The Quartet."

<----

Larry Otis!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeM89CITvMc

and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

  

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Wordman
Member since Apr 11th 2003
11224 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 07:17 AM

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8. "Mingus Ah Um is probably THE Mingus album to get..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...if you've never heard any of his stuff.
If you like that, and you will, Black Saint And The Sinner Lady is a good place to go from there. I'm a big fan of East Coasting, the piano album. You know what? All of them.


"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

  

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lonesome_d
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30443 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 09:34 AM

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9. "I've never heard a bad Mingus record"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'm probably not as well versed as some here, but I think I've got Mingus x5, Ah Um, Black Saint, Tijuana Moods, Cumbia & Jazz, Blues & Roots, Dynasty....

anyway, he's got a reasonably consistent aesthetic, in my experience, so my advice is fire away & enjoy.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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Austin
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Thu Apr-12-12 12:49 PM

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13. "RE: I came in here to say this^^^"
In response to Reply # 9
Thu Apr-12-12 12:57 PM by Austin

  

          

I've got a big chunk of his catalogue:

CDs:
http://i40.tinypic.com/29qfh4l.jpg

Vinyl:
http://i39.tinypic.com/vcx9h3.jpg

. . .and I have to say that there's not really a bad album in the bunch. He's not like the other jazz giants you mentioned (Trane and Miles), who both have periods in their respective catalogues that can be divisive among fans: With the late 60's/70's fusion and 80's stuff for Miles and the free stuff for Trane, these are both periods that a lot of people enjoy, but you will have a hard time finding people that are just as big of fans of Kind of Blue as they are of On the Corner or just as big of fans of Blue Train as they are of Interstellar Space.

Not the case with Mingus. He was so consistent that I would venture to say if you pick up one of his, say, Impulse albums and dig it, you'll dig everything, in varying degrees. Practically the only distinguishing trait for his music is the size of the band. The smaller group stuff tends to be a bit more adventurous, but the composition style is the same as when he worked with larger bands.

Personally, I prefer his 70's stuff, just on the basis of it being less familiar than his previous material. It was also in the 70's that he really started to focus on being a composer, so the music often takes on more of classical approach than ever before. But, through it all, there's always a very strong blues influence, so even though the songs are structured like a multi-movement orchestral piece, they're still played like a jammin' jazz group. If I had to pick one from this era, I'd say the Changes albums are my favorite.

Some notable Mingus contributions that you should be aware of:

Jazz at Massey Hall: http://amzn.to/IZAv61
Is one of the best jazz albums ever. The group is unbelievable.

Money Jungle: http://amzn.to/HE3foK
One of Duke's greatest performances and Mingus is just insane through the whole thing; you can tell he was showing off for his idol.

Hope this helps.

~Austin

"Where in the world is your inspiration to say the things you're aching to say?"

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

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CB_010
Member since Mar 01st 2006
725 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 10:00 AM

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10. "dont mind me.. i just bookmarked this poast.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

saturday = record/vinyl fair

___________________________
http://www.soundcloud.com/cb010
https://soundcloud.com/kofitheunkn0wn

  

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hardware
Member since May 22nd 2007
42304 posts
Thu Apr-12-12 10:03 AM

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12. "i cut my teeth on Mingus Ah Um"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Apr-12-12 10:05 AM by hardware

          

i was in the same boat months ago
Kind of Blue is my favorite of Davis'
i recommend Wayne Shorter after Mingus as well

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Thu Apr-12-12 02:03 PM

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20. "agree on Wayne Shorter"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

  

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mathmagic
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Thu Apr-12-12 02:38 PM

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21. "RE: agree on Wayne Shorter"
In response to Reply # 20


          

speak no evil

Jordan!

  

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mathmagic
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Thu Apr-12-12 01:53 PM

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14. "whichever one has 'fables of faubus'"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Jordan!

  

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Austin
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Thu Apr-12-12 01:59 PM

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17. "RE: Yeah, that narrows it down."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

</sarcasm>

~Austin

"Where in the world is your inspiration to say the things you're aching to say?"

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

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mathmagic
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Thu Apr-12-12 02:02 PM

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19. "well how many albums contain that tune?"
In response to Reply # 17


          

Jordan!

  

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Austin
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Thu Apr-12-12 06:30 PM

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26. "RE: More than one."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

~Austin

"Where in the world is your inspiration to say the things you're aching to say?"

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
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Thu Apr-12-12 01:58 PM

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15. "Mingus x5 aka Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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ajiav
Member since Feb 02nd 2007
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Thu Apr-12-12 04:06 PM

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22. "RE: Jazz heads, I need your help on Charles Mingus."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Right now can pick up several of the classic Mingus albums on disc for relatively cheap:

Original album series overlapping with the Atlantic box set (the clown, pithecanthropus erectus, etc) as low as $18:
http://amzn.to/IzEjfH

Similar release of three albums, favoring Columbia releases (incl. Mingus Ah Um) as low as $11:
http://amzn.to/HP8Owg

One of the recent two-on-one Impulse releases that includes Black Saint and Mingus x 5 for as low as $7:
http://amzn.to/IMZHjm

Theoretically, for less than $50 can have a lot of the most significant music, packaging obviously isn't going to be ideal but a bargain quantity-wise; if he catches you it's not unlikely you'd want to keep hearing more. I find him among the most accessible due to being so arranged (the Impulse albums appear to extend this into the recording process to a greater extent).

-------

http://soundcloud.com/ajiav
http://www.last.fm/user/ajiav

Games without front ears / born without ears

  

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Roadblock
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Thu Apr-12-12 04:48 PM

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23. "easily my favorite Jazz artist "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

you can't go wrong w/ the suggestions above

this song off this LP is what first got me open

I'll Remember April (Part I)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djm1LDol3ps

@GetoutTheroom
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
******************************************
https://twitter.com/Jayric

  

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Roadblock
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Thu Apr-12-12 04:52 PM

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24. "Check Mingus' version of "A Foggy Day""
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

http://tinyurl.com/7jeaf7z
also off His album w/ Max Roach

@GetoutTheroom
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
******************************************
https://twitter.com/Jayric

  

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Roadblock
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Thu Apr-12-12 04:55 PM

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25. "hell just get the "CHARLES MINGUS QUINTET & MAX ROACH lp""
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

@GetoutTheroom
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
******************************************
https://twitter.com/Jayric

  

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CaptainRook
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Sat Apr-14-12 06:33 AM

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27. "Thanks to all who chimed in. Now I have some ideas about which "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

direction into which I should go.

I really appreciate all who took time to contribute to my growth and development in this thing called "jazz".

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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x49
Member since Nov 04th 2009
1716 posts
Sat Apr-14-12 08:49 AM

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28. "i started with black saint and sinner lady and haven't even moved on yet"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's way too good

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
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Sat Apr-14-12 03:36 PM

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29. "RE: i started with black saint and sinner lady and haven't even moved on..."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

yeah, Track A is so layered and dissonant and angry. i don't know what Mingus was feeling when he composed that, but that is a very richly beautiful piece of music.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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BROTHER MOUZONE
Member since Jan 08th 2012
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Sun Apr-15-12 04:36 AM

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30. "RE: i started with black saint and sinner lady and haven't even moved on..."
In response to Reply # 29


          

I've heard from alot of older cats,including my Uncle and Pops mention that Mingus was just as talented, if not more talented of a composer and arranger as Duke Ellington and Count Basie. I never really took the time to dissect his music but I know he is a main cat.

On a sidenote: his daughter graduated with my parents from Compton High back in 68. Moms said she was an artsy-type boho chick.

  

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