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Subject: "Been years since a good art vs. entertainment thread" Previous topic | Next topic
imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Tue Apr-10-12 09:18 AM

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"Been years since a good art vs. entertainment thread"


  

          

LOL!! In that time I've noticed a lot of complaints about the state of music. Well, ya don't say. How could that possibly be? Of course it's always in reference to the popular side of things. Could there possibly be a correlation there? Like is it possible that this perceived decline in 'good' music is because of the high stakes popularity contest the industry has become?
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Been years since a good art vs. entertainment thread
Apr 10th 2012
1
Great point
Apr 10th 2012
4
When has there NOT been a lot of complaints
Apr 10th 2012
2
1999?
Apr 10th 2012
3
      1999 in popular music:
Apr 10th 2012
9
RE: Been years since a good art vs. entertainment thread
Apr 10th 2012
5
Says the guy with his panties in a bunch because
Apr 10th 2012
6
      right.
Apr 10th 2012
7
they wasn't with me when I was digging in the crates...
Apr 10th 2012
8
I'm not sure that aspect of the industry has changed
Apr 10th 2012
10
high stakes popularity game
Apr 10th 2012
11
I agree with this
Apr 10th 2012
17
link me to the Frank Ocean piece pls.
Apr 10th 2012
12
      it was from Wax Poetics, forgot to mention that
Apr 10th 2012
13
someone recently told me....
Apr 10th 2012
14
leroi jones/amiri baraka addressed this (afaik) earliest.
Apr 10th 2012
15
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/captnish/4bbe9f17.jpg
Apr 10th 2012
16
all you 'good music is out there' motherfuckers need to show and prove
Apr 10th 2012
19
Do serious artists make songs like the Birthday Cake Rmx?
Apr 10th 2012
18
'How Soon Is Now' was dance music. always.
Apr 10th 2012
20
      if they was playing HSIN, i'd understand
Apr 10th 2012
21
      *record scratch*
Apr 10th 2012
22
Everything with David Guetta..
Apr 10th 2012
23

thebigfunk
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Tue Apr-10-12 10:34 AM

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1. "RE: Been years since a good art vs. entertainment thread"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I generally try to keep a broad mind re: the fine line between art/entertainment... it's all registers, all context...

*but* I think a key indicator of popular music today is how unyieldingly self-referential it is, self-referential in a way that isolates it from virtually any reasonable understanding of "average" daily life...

Watch the Throne may be one of the more blatant symptoms of that isolation, but it's hardly restricted to hip hop... it's pervasive. And while it's not at all new, it seems ubiquitous at this point, impossible to escape. Every song I hear on popular radio is about the dream party, the life of luxury, the life of the pop star, depicted in a totally unrealistic and unattainable manner... which limits its usefulness outside a certain listening context/mood/scene...

Art is an inherently elitist medium of communication to some degree, but when it stops putting on even the pretense of meaningfulness... I don't know, it's hard for me to try to take it seriously.

/end old man rant

  

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tricky99
Member since Aug 25th 2005
714 posts
Tue Apr-10-12 10:56 AM

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4. "Great point"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Most popular music these days seems vacuous to my ears. It's like candy as opposed to a meal. very little substance and not much talent either. People can't write songs, can't sing and don't play any instruments. beyond that most of the performers don't really have anything to say worth thinking about either.

I read in the paper that war will bring peace.
--- Meshell Ndegeocello

  

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lonesome_d
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Tue Apr-10-12 10:44 AM

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2. "When has there NOT been a lot of complaints"
In response to Reply # 0


          

about the state of popular music?



-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42214 posts
Tue Apr-10-12 10:55 AM

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3. "1999?"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          


________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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lonesome_d
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Tue Apr-10-12 11:18 AM

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9. "1999 in popular music:"
In response to Reply # 3
Tue Apr-10-12 11:20 AM by lonesome_d

          

-the re-emergence of teen pop as the dominant market force
-pop-punk goes big time
-the ill-named "Latin pop movement"
-"Supernatural"
-rap-rock and nu-metal come on strong

c'mon, man

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Apr-10-12 10:58 AM

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5. "RE: Been years since a good art vs. entertainment thread"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Like is it possible that this perceived decline in
>'good' music is because of the high stakes popularity contest
>the industry has become?

no.

fuck you.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42214 posts
Tue Apr-10-12 11:00 AM

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6. "Says the guy with his panties in a bunch because"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Rhianna is selling more than Madonna and Beyonce.


________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Apr-10-12 11:05 AM

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7. "right."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

fuck you.

  

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k_orr
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Tue Apr-10-12 11:07 AM

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8. "they wasn't with me when I was digging in the crates..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Maybe we (collectively) like music less because we don't have to justify liking it after purchase.

No investment, means that if I like something, it's because I like it?

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Tue Apr-10-12 11:19 AM

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10. "I'm not sure that aspect of the industry has changed"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Like is it possible that this perceived decline in
>'good' music is because of the high stakes popularity contest
>the industry has become?

but the industry as a whole has changed.
I think numerous times when this subject has been approached, it's under the idea that there is much less room for failure in the business.

it's part of what you get from Kelly Kel hereabouts in his rundowns of the past decade, the formula for success, and his overwhelming lament of not being (able to be) part of something "consensus popular" and modern.

we might have discussed ad infinitum about the reasons why that isn't happening today. and IMO, I think the industry is largely to blame for the current state of affairs.


for the record: I don't really think new music in 2012 sucks. in fact I think we have many artists that seem to "get it" out there versus but a few years ago. it's just a much smaller audience than we're used to will be able to hear them due to a number of factors. I think rap, in particular, is way better than the POO POO that many of us were fed early in the decade prior. Sure, I don't personally have that new "DOOM" artist that I immediately latch-on to but I'm sure I'll find something.

I think you'll find more Frank Oceans out there than anything else in the coming years. After reading the semi-puff piece on him and his road to the spotlight, I learned a few things about him in the process. More than his influences, and all the biographical sketch stuff... I found his interest in becoming a songwriter first and foremost intriguing, and even more so, finally saying "eff it" and throwing his album to the dogs while it gathered dust (with help from some of his friends in OF).

they won't sell a lot of records unless majors vulture 'em but they can apparently get a lot of press otherwise. sounds like the old days.

  

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imcvspl
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Tue Apr-10-12 11:53 AM

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11. "high stakes popularity game "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

started when cost of production went down while return on investment went up. i wish i had time to source numbers, but bascially the music industry created a huge bubble pre-internet which set their expectations for sales super high (think of those platinum plus debuts). We forget this was all before the internet. they were risking big budgets for quick high returns and it was working. so they repeated it. then the internet popped up (around the same time consumers were wising up to the glut) numbers drop back to *normal* but the expectations stay high. since then it's been basically a free for all, trying to live up to those past expectations. but those were all very controlled case studies. today they don't have half the control.
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Dr Claw
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Tue Apr-10-12 01:25 PM

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17. "I agree with this"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>started when cost of production went down while return on
>investment went up. i wish i had time to source numbers, but
>bascially the music industry created a huge bubble
>pre-internet which set their expectations for sales super high
>(think of those platinum plus debuts). We forget this was all
>before the internet. they were risking big budgets for quick
>high returns and it was working. so they repeated it. then
>the internet popped up (around the same time consumers were
>wising up to the glut) numbers drop back to *normal* but the
>expectations stay high. since then it's been basically a free
>for all, trying to live up to those past expectations. but
>those were all very controlled case studies. today they don't
>have half the control.

it was a bubble, and this is the result of it bursting

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
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Tue Apr-10-12 12:29 PM

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12. "link me to the Frank Ocean piece pls."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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Dr Claw
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Tue Apr-10-12 12:32 PM

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13. "it was from Wax Poetics, forgot to mention that"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

http://www.waxpoetics.com/features/articles/soul-caliber

  

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haji rana pinya
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Tue Apr-10-12 12:38 PM

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14. "someone recently told me...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

youre thinking too much

just make fun silly songs that people can dance to

i get that i guess and its cool and all but...

ugh

*********************
www.dumhi.com

  

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ultimatedisc
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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Tue Apr-10-12 01:19 PM

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15. "leroi jones/amiri baraka addressed this (afaik) earliest."
In response to Reply # 0


          

final chapter of "blues people" (1962) -- a must read btw.

paraphrasing -- bird and diz (and the beboppers) started saying that they really didn't care if heads listened to their music.

deep shit -- and def a fulcrum of sorts between art and entertainment.

peace.

one.

  

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CaptNish
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Tue Apr-10-12 01:20 PM

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16. "http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/captnish/4bbe9f17.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/captnish/4bbe9f17.jpg

_
Yo! That’s My Jawn: The Podcast - Available Now!
http://linktr.ee/yothatsmyjawn

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
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Tue Apr-10-12 01:41 PM

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19. "all you 'good music is out there' motherfuckers need to show and prove"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

link me to some

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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k_orr
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Tue Apr-10-12 01:38 PM

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18. "Do serious artists make songs like the Birthday Cake Rmx?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That's Rihiana feat Chris Brown and somebody who's name I forget.

I went with my peeps to my boy's gf's favorite kinda party, 80's/British whatevers.

as we're walking out, one of the homiez is like, "don't get me wrong, I like Morrissey, but when it was out, IT WASN'T DANCE MUSIC"

one
k. orr

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Apr-10-12 03:20 PM

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20. "'How Soon Is Now' was dance music. always."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Depeche Mode made dance music.

Prince made dance music.

James Brown made dance music.

The Beatles made dance music.

Public Enemy.

P-Funk.

fuck you.

  

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k_orr
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Tue Apr-10-12 05:27 PM

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21. "if they was playing HSIN, i'd understand"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

But these parties are on some strictly album cuts steez.

  

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imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
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Tue Apr-10-12 07:54 PM

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22. "*record scratch*"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

PE?
Sure you could dance to "PE#1" but calling dance music is a bit of a stretch.

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

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alexofliveagl.com
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Tue Apr-10-12 07:59 PM

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23. "Everything with David Guetta.."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I avoid like the black plague..

But I don't blame him, the music is just bad..
I just miss the choice we had.. Hip Hop is a genre deprived of individual creativity..

Everybody sounds the same (with a few exceptions)

With rock, you have different sounds and subgenres.. so there is choice..

We're kinda SOL

- LIVEAGL.COM -
**An Open Letter To Jay Electronica ***
<http://bit.ly/GUSfyE>

***Overly Dedicated, The Top 7 Kendrick Lamar Features****
<http://bit.ly/ADUQvt>

  

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