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Subject: "what REALLY happened to MC Ren? * a grown mans plea*" Previous topic | Next topic
ABROCK33
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Thu Mar-22-12 09:28 AM

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"what REALLY happened to MC Ren? * a grown mans plea*"
Thu Mar-22-12 09:37 AM by ABROCK33

  

          

*please follow my thoughts here*

I always thought that on "Strait outta compton" he was just as good, if only slightly lesser MC than Cube. their wasnt a huge unbalance from the lead to 2nd mc ala Treach and Vinnie or Qtiop and early Phife. they were co mc leads.

"If it it aint rough" and "Quiet on the set" were both excellent solo ssongs in the more tradtional east coast battle mc style common for the time

they were markedly contrasted to Ice Cubes solo "I aint the 1" which was a story song but was a weaker link on the lp.

solo songs advantage Ren

the rest of the lp was pretty much split with them cohandling the mc duties and playing to their strengths.

Cube had standout verses on "F the police", "Strait outta compton", "Gangsta gangsta" and "Dopeman"

Ren had standouts on "Something like that" and "Comptons in the house"

group songs advantage Cube

they weighed out even tho I will admit that on the surface Cubes "angry black youth voice" set the tone for the group and is mostly associated w the mental image of early NWA but in reality Rens contributons were just as effective and kinda balanced and rounded out the lp.

another point is that while Cube is widely credited as being the writing force between NWA, Ren also shared those credits and steeped it up on "Eazy duz it" (see below)

my point is they both held their own and where vital parts of NWA up and until that point. they were equals

now comes Eazy Does it. at this point Cube was plotting his exit, But Ren came through w 2/ more steller contributions on "2 hard muths" and "ruthless villian" to furthur cement his status as the go to MC

******so at this point in their careers Ren is neck and neck w Cube. This is prior to Cubes AMW

next comes AMW and Cube turns hip hop on its head. its everything we wanted except 10x better. No need to extoll the virtues of Cube here (he's one of my fav MC's ever I make no bones about it) he cemented his rep here

now Ren comes back on "nggz4life" w a vengence. A LOT more gangsta in his swag, a deeper voice and he's going for the throat. "Appetite for destruction" "Approach to danger" "Real niggaz" "Always into somethin" and "real nggz dont die" are his strogest verses yet

somehow tho Rens personal accuman got overshadowed by the Ice Cube beef

Cube follows w DC and furthur establishes his GOAT worthyness. he transtions to NOI teachings which slightly effect his music.

meanwhile

Ren starts a solo career that starts off of but then never picks up full speed after the EP. He transtions to NOI which seem to DRAMATICALLY effect his music. He gets angrier, more profane did I say angrier?

at this point I kinda couldnt continue listening to Ren. I fell out of interest w what he was doing. it was too harsh

tell me WTF happened here?


why didnt he have similar success to Cube?


my PERSONAL suspicion is that he wasn't as motivated as Cube. can anyone share any insight. Ren is somewhat of an enigma to me

all the talent in the world, the co lead MC in the "worlds most dangerous group" but now 20 urs later..an afterthought who never had a universally acclaimed great solo lp

help a bro out here..I dont understand

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Ren unfortunately got more angry and militant in an era
Mar 22nd 2012
1
Ren had a Vietnam flashback or somthin lol
Mar 22nd 2012
2
I remember having the one tape where side A Gangsta side B NOI
Mar 22nd 2012
3
damn, u make it seem like this n*gga need an Unsung episode...
Mar 22nd 2012
4
if we're talking his career, he just might, LOL
Mar 22nd 2012
7
      i was trynna come up with a NWA totem pole...
Mar 22nd 2012
10
           hes the only NWA that held down a group lp tho
Mar 22nd 2012
11
you were cool till
Mar 22nd 2012
5
if Ren was only a 2nd rate MC
Mar 22nd 2012
9
      i didn't say he was 2nd rate
Mar 22nd 2012
18
           I dont know who couldve either
Mar 22nd 2012
19
No room/too little too late
Mar 22nd 2012
6
his persoanlity was a plus not a minus
Mar 22nd 2012
8
      He had immense personal strength but the public needs more
Mar 22nd 2012
12
           the EP went plat tho
Mar 22nd 2012
14
                If the EP went plat and the follow up album went gold
Mar 22nd 2012
16
                     the EP was plat but that was old NWA Ren
Mar 22nd 2012
17
could DJ Trains death have played a role?
Mar 22nd 2012
13
he was the NWA member w the most street cred
Mar 22nd 2012
15

Dr Claw
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Thu Mar-22-12 09:45 AM

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1. "Ren unfortunately got more angry and militant in an era"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

when jabronis decided they were going to start dancing to "oldies" yet continue the cussin' and shooting people.

he simply didn't fit. he stayed with an "Ice Cube"-esque theme when Cube himself was starting to backslide.

this is wild as hell because I was actually looking up some old Ren shit the other day asking myself the same question. I can't remember SHOCK OF THE HOUR being heavily promoted, either.

and that EP... I know it's a term that's been beat to death, but that really gave me hope for what he would continue to do. that shit is a superlative in his catalog.

  

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ABROCK33
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Thu Mar-22-12 09:52 AM

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2. "Ren had a Vietnam flashback or somthin lol"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

he became the old dude sittin on his porch with a huge keep of the grass sign on the front dareing young punks to walk on the grass. Not only that but he kept a shotgun in plain view

he stayed with an "Ice Cube"-esque theme
>when Cube himself was starting to backslide.>

right he went with the 'angry'black man" theme Cube perfected and somehow did it 800x harder lol

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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debo40oz
Member since Apr 16th 2003
4081 posts
Thu Mar-22-12 09:54 AM

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3. "I remember having the one tape where side A Gangsta side B NOI"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It was alright but nothing special. I couldn't name a song off of it today.

  

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builtfromwax
Member since May 01st 2007
1879 posts
Thu Mar-22-12 10:22 AM

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4. "damn, u make it seem like this n*gga need an Unsung episode..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130675 posts
Thu Mar-22-12 11:14 AM

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7. "if we're talking his career, he just might, LOL"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

because everyone else out of NWA save DJ Yella (who had a solo album or two) went on to do other notable shit.

  

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builtfromwax
Member since May 01st 2007
1879 posts
Thu Mar-22-12 11:32 AM

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10. "i was trynna come up with a NWA totem pole..."
In response to Reply # 7


          

...and he actually came in 6th after Eazy, Dre, Cube, Snoop and the D.O.C. shit he really could go lower if you include J.J. FAD, Bone Thugs and Michel'le.

  

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ABROCK33
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Thu Mar-22-12 11:40 AM

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11. "hes the only NWA that held down a group lp tho"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


we realy dont consider Dre or Eazy as co emcees now do we?

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16481 posts
Thu Mar-22-12 10:42 AM

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5. "you were cool till"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Mar-22-12 10:44 AM by Selah

          

>... Ice Cubes solo "I aint the 1"
>which was a story song but was a weaker link on the lp.

WHAT?

I actually consider that song a highlight. Better than "Express Yourself" (which isn't bad) and MUCH better than "Somethin Like that", "Somethin 2 Dance 2" and "Quiet on the Set" (which kinda are)

I'd consider the solo comparison a push

to your larger point Ren just wasn't as savvy and was always a strong 2nd or co-lead without the chops (rhymes, personality, or bidness sense) to sustain himself as a strong lead for a prolonged period of time

Ren went super-radical and suffered for it (stradding hard gangster and pseudo-noi-ish militant was weird), Cube rode the wave of whatever would get him the most $$ (hardest nigga alive one day, hood prphet the next, we be clubbin next, don mega, all that) and lasted longer

it ain't that deep

  

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ABROCK33
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Thu Mar-22-12 11:28 AM

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9. "if Ren was only a 2nd rate MC"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

A)why didnt the group replace Cube on nggz4life? why did they let Ren take the lead? IMO he performed EXCEPTIONALLY well. he didnt replace Cube himself-who could? but he stabalized the group a bit. At that point and time no one was looking for social economic discourse from Ren. Cube hadnt even developed to that point yet. dont act like NWA fell apart w REN at the lead they didnt

as far as dismissing his business sense thats just conjecture. Ive never read anything to see he wasnt attune to what was going on w the groups finances. if anything based on Ronin Ros book about Dr Dre he was just loyal to a fault (as was Dre but Dre seemed more weak minded)

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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Selah
Member since Jun 05th 2002
16481 posts
Thu Mar-22-12 12:24 PM

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18. "i didn't say he was 2nd rate"
In response to Reply # 9
Thu Mar-22-12 12:32 PM by Selah

          

just that he was better as a second banana

regarding "why not replace cube", they only one who maybe could have done that was DOC and he had no voice @ that point.

why did Ren take the lead? who else was gonna Yella? Dre? (please)

and yeah Ren was just fine but their second album WAS step below the 1st (it at that point seemed like vulgarity for vulgarity sake)

as you said, who was gonna take that spot and not look crazy by comparison?

  

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ABROCK33
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Thu Mar-22-12 12:35 PM

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19. "I dont know who couldve either"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

but as weve come to learn Dre has a knack for spotting talented, hungry mcs who just want a shot. I dont think its too far fetched to think that if they didnt think Ren could handle the job they coulda brought someone else in not to neccesarily lead the group but to handle co MCing duties w him. Its all speculation in hindsight as they didnt do that but still. You woulda had to think that someone in the crew at had that thought at least cross their mind.

D.O.C. wouldnt have fit enough if his voice was right IMO but had it it woulda been interesting.

how do you think Ren did in his first "starring roll"?

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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Duval Spit
Member since Jan 21st 2009
3355 posts
Thu Mar-22-12 10:55 AM

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6. "No room/too little too late"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

We can all agree that Ren and Cube were close to neck and neck on SOC
BUT
Ren was third in the group for recognizable personalities behind Cube and Eazy,
and fourth in this category to people who knew Dre was on the beats.
Don't forget, "Express Yourself" put Dre front and center even though in the song he mentions that he didn't write it.

Now let's go chronologically:
88 - Straight Outta Compton
88 - Eazy Duz It
89 - No One Can Do It Better
90 - Amerikkkaz Most Wanted
91 - Death Certificate
91 - Efil4zaggin
92 - The Predator (with Cubes biggest hit to date)
92 - The Chronic
93 - It's On 187um Killa

And where does Ren fit into all of this?
Kizz My Black Azz in 92 and Shock of the Hour in 93.

Now how in the hell can your fourth most charismatic member be expected to be noticed when the market is flooded by his former teammates?
SOC set the template, but Eazy and DOC were allowed to run with it, not Ren. Add in the fact that the West Coast adopted a lot of this sound quickly and now the whole NWA posse has to be a step ahead so that their lane doesn't get outplayed by their followers.
So Cube drops and completely changes the landscape from a sonic perspective. Sure PE were big, but it was a coup for a West Coast artist to come so East Coast, even if the particular East Coast sound he was using was an extreme and not the norm.
So what does Ren do? Knowing he prolly can't make it on his own, he wisely stays with the group. The only problem is the group is splintering; had Dre stuck around maybe Ren would be sitting pretty and Cube would have been a successful Syd Barrett.
That doesn't happen.
Dre leaves and now he too blows up with a different sound (the arguments for his following others need not be brought up here) and not only does he change the sound he has a new extremely charismatic rapper with him in Snoop.
So where does that leave Ren?
His group is dead and everybody except Yella is having amazing success by being extremists (Eazy) or trailblazers (Cube and Dre)
Ren's only hope was to go hard, and while he certainly did he didn't have the crossover appeal as his former compatriots.

IF Eazy wasn't a cult figure and
IF Cube hadn't taken off and
IF Dre's attempts at a new sound hadn't become the new standard
we could reasonably assume that NWA would have reformed sooner than later and still touring today with Ren in the fold.

But that didn't happen.

If the NWA was the Frat Pack,
Ren would be David Koechner.

<----

Larry Otis!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeM89CITvMc

and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

  

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ABROCK33
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Thu Mar-22-12 11:21 AM

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8. "his persoanlity was a plus not a minus"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

In a group full of nutcases he was the "reason"

I hear your argument that Ren lesser personality in a group full of strong personalities held him back from day 1 but in his defence there were a lot of people that respected Ren more for that (at the time). He wasnt the drug dealin midget witha curl nor was he the extremly angry man (yet lol). he was just the solid, no nonsense MC. There was a time were that actually stood for something and was respected in hip hop. Even back then I saw Eazy as comedic relief, a cartoon character. Cube gave the group its legitimacy and justified the group name but Ren was the stablity IMO. The one who didnt bend or conform. He didnt have the curl look and even his rap name wasnt flamboyant it was just a shortning of his real name. What you see as a weakness (lack of a flamboyant personality) alot of people includeing me see as a strength.


>
>Now how in the hell can your fourth most charismatic member be
>expected to be noticed when the market is flooded by his
>former teammates?
>SOC set the template, but Eazy and DOC were allowed to run
>with it, not Ren.>

This where I wanted to go..a little deeper..good point. As you said the market was flooded w his bandmates but no Ren solo till 92. why is that? in the midst of his paycheck crumbling ie. the group why didnt he hurry up w a solo lp? why did he wait till 92? was it confidence or lack therof? was it laziness? maybye it was just loyalty as Dr Dre's bio suggested. you think Ren didnt see what Cube saw? he did but he thought somehow that it would get worked out. he was just loyal to the group and Dre. this leads to the next question. how come Ren never was included in the Chronic and the "new Dre"? he hasnt gone on record of haveing a beef w Dre that I am aware of

what I am getting at is was their some personal reason that he waited that long to enter the game as a soloist?

>So what does Ren do? Knowing he prolly can't make it on his
>own, he wisely stays with the group.>

I disagree. Again Ren stayed out of loyalty. Their is no evidence to support that it was a fear of failure. NWA couldve have easily brought in a replacment for Cube but they didnt. That to me shows that they believed in Rens ablitites to carry the group. Unfortunatly Dre left afterwards so we dont know how things woulda turned out if..

>So where does that leave Ren?

from your vantage point the tipping point was the group breaking up. We agree. where I differ was that Ren wasnt out of options at that point. I dont understand why he waited so late to build his own brand? I mean I do understand it gets back to his loyalty.

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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Duval Spit
Member since Jan 21st 2009
3355 posts
Thu Mar-22-12 11:44 AM

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12. "He had immense personal strength but the public needs more"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

What you
>see as a weakness (lack of a flamboyant personality) alot of
>people includeing me see as a strength.

It is important to note that I do not see it as a personal weakness, merely a musical one. How many straight forward, no nonsense rappers have been stars? We can prolly count them on two hands. That's a much harder road to take than that of people with personality. I liken it (like most things) to basketball - everybody wants solid guys on their team, but without people who can create on their own and take over you prolly aren't going very far. Ren's personality stood out in the group because of his approach but it was a hindrance as a solo artist.


>what I am getting at is was their some personal reason that he
>waited that long to enter the game as a soloist?

I honestly don't know. I assume that he didn't want the guys to think he was splintering off too, but Eazy put out a solo with SOC so its hard to say.


>from your vantage point the tipping point was the group
>breaking up. We agree. where I differ was that Ren wasnt out
>of options at that point. I dont understand why he waited so
>late to build his own brand? I mean I do understand it gets
>back to his loyalty.

And I assume this is true as well.

Somehow I cut your quote out above,
but I do find it interesting that he is nowhere to be seen on The Chronic. I'm going to chalk it up to Dre going for a complete clean break.

<----

Larry Otis!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeM89CITvMc

and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

  

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ABROCK33
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Thu Mar-22-12 12:00 PM

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14. "the EP went plat tho"
In response to Reply # 12
Thu Mar-22-12 12:00 PM by ABROCK33

  

          

I agree with you that the public wants a strong personality but he did show success, on his own, just being Ren. Lets not forget that

> >but I do find it interesting that he is nowhere to be seen on
>The Chronic. I'm going to chalk it up to Dre going for a
>complete clean break.>

to this day Ive never heard Ren talk bad about any of NWA. it seems that he didnt have any beef w anyone atleast publicaly.


--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Duval Spit
Member since Jan 21st 2009
3355 posts
Thu Mar-22-12 12:06 PM

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16. "If the EP went plat and the follow up album went gold"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Then it shows that while lots might have bought the EP based on name they didn't stick around for the album, and even less kept going with him after that.

It's not like the EP came out of nowhere, it was following a very successful brand.

<----

Larry Otis!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeM89CITvMc

and his free new singles, produced by Tough Junkie!
http://soundcloud.com/toughjunkie/sets/larry-otis-leaks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
ABROCK33
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Thu Mar-22-12 12:23 PM

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17. "the EP was plat but that was old NWA Ren"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

the LP "Shock of the Hour" was after he converted to NOI

I think that had a lot to do with the drop off

people wernt expecting that and were horrified to hear that lol those that bought it told their friends. the fire on the lp cover quickly died out

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ABROCK33
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Thu Mar-22-12 11:52 AM

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13. "could DJ Trains death have played a role?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in Rens going "vietnam NOI?"

the EP went plat then released Shock of the hour which was good for and went gold EVEN with his extremism

but before the 3nd lp his homie died

I dont know how credible this wikipedia article is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MC_Ren) but it implies that DJ Train may have been influential in his conversion to NOI.

but when Ren came back he did'nt just go NOI he went "full NOI" @ Robery Downey in Tropical Thunder.

after this he really never gained his momentum

AGAIN IM NOT SAYIN DJ Trains death did this but Im askin has anyone heard this? was Train also his mentor?

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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ABROCK33
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Thu Mar-22-12 12:03 PM

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15. "he was the NWA member w the most street cred"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I dont think this can be disputed

I mean Eazy was street in the truest since BUT his persona was that of a cartoon. it was funny

Cube is who he is but we know that he wasnt street. Not to diminish his expierence

Dre seemed like a sheltered kid who was unsure of himself but had a talent for music

Im not sure about Yella or Arab P (like they even matter)

but no one ever questioned Rens credintials lol

--------------------
"Good hair"-Uzi

1619 the 1st slaves are brought to American shores
thus begins the phrase “mine is better than yours?” (huh?)
forced to serve-too broke to by freedom
the systematic rape of African culture has begun
little time

  

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