Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby The Lesson topic #2666266

Subject: "Which Gang Starr album is better? Hard To Earn vs. Moment of Truth" Previous topic | Next topic
BlackandProud
Member since Feb 08th 2012
181 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 07:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Poll question: Which Gang Starr album is better? Hard To Earn vs. Moment of Truth"


          

Poll result (102 votes)
Hard To Earn (48 votes)Vote
Moment of Truth (54 votes)Vote

  

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Hard To Earn was the soundtrack to my 9th grade year so it gets my vote
Feb 23rd 2012
1
Which of yall dumb mofo's is voting Moment of Truth?
Feb 23rd 2012
2
Y I gotta be dum?
Feb 23rd 2012
3
Moment of Truth is their best album
Feb 23rd 2012
4
Yep yes
Feb 23rd 2012
5
thats why MOT doesnt really hang together
Feb 23rd 2012
23
      That doesn't even make sense
Feb 23rd 2012
29
           RE: That doesn't even make sense
Feb 23rd 2012
30
                But see, I agree with this.
Feb 23rd 2012
43
15 told them MOT was the best
Feb 26th 2012
110
Yea cause that's always the answer...
Feb 26th 2012
112
he did?
Feb 26th 2012
113
senior year soundtrack.
Jan 31st 2013
150
I lean red
Feb 23rd 2012
6
Yo Claw...serious quesion:
Feb 23rd 2012
7
oh, whew... that's easy.
Feb 23rd 2012
8
      Haha fair enough.
Feb 23rd 2012
9
But to me Doc
Feb 23rd 2012
10
      Well, the quality of the music factors into that, as well
Feb 23rd 2012
14
           RE: Well, the quality of the music factors into that, as well
Feb 23rd 2012
36
Hard to Earn. I find mature rap slightly boring.
Feb 23rd 2012
11
Good breakdown.
Feb 23rd 2012
12
Hard to earn
Feb 23rd 2012
13
Hard to earn is just harder
Feb 23rd 2012
17
Yeah, those two songs had annoying choruses
Feb 23rd 2012
47
F.A.L.A. & Suckas Need Bodyguards
Feb 26th 2012
91
I think you bring up an interesting perspective
Feb 23rd 2012
20
      Yes, ''Suckas need bodyguards'' in particular...
Feb 23rd 2012
48
if anyone says moment of truth i know its just cos they were
Feb 23rd 2012
15
Wait..............................................
Feb 23rd 2012
18
it always seems that the people who like MOT best
Feb 23rd 2012
21
      Oh.
Feb 23rd 2012
22
Wait, what happens when your assumption is wrong?
Feb 23rd 2012
24
i just remember being really surprised
Feb 23rd 2012
27
      Ugh.
Feb 23rd 2012
32
Actually you don't know because I had Hard To Earn when it dropped
Feb 23rd 2012
37
You mean older right?
Feb 26th 2012
90
"Hard to Earn" is their best. MOT has "The Mall" on it...
Feb 23rd 2012
16
Yea The Mall is really poor...
Feb 23rd 2012
19
*obligatory ''The Mall'' isn't the worst thing in the world defense*
Feb 23rd 2012
26
      The hook on "The Mall" is worse than scavies and gout
Feb 23rd 2012
28
      I laughed. And agree.
Feb 23rd 2012
33
      Ha! The beat, tho
Feb 23rd 2012
38
      can't disagree with that...lol
Feb 23rd 2012
52
      I agree
Feb 23rd 2012
31
      Yea, Next Time is definitely...
Feb 23rd 2012
34
           Guru produced that
Feb 24th 2012
62
                C'mon! Really?
Feb 24th 2012
63
                easy mistake to make
Feb 24th 2012
64
                Are you sure it's not Make Em Pay?
May 28th 2012
142
                     he did She Knows and co-produced Make Em Pay/Next Time
Jan 31st 2013
151
      G Dep's verse saves it for me.
Feb 23rd 2012
42
      Me too.
Feb 23rd 2012
55
      clearly the worst song is "She knows what she wants"
Feb 25th 2012
89
           there's a reason SKWSW doesn't sound like Primo
Feb 26th 2012
94
nothing on MOT is seeing Mass Appeal/Code of the Streets
Feb 23rd 2012
25
RE: nothing on MOT is seeing Mass Appeal/Code of the Streets
Feb 23rd 2012
39
My preference is MOT over HTE, but Daily Operation is their best
Feb 23rd 2012
35
feels like MOT is more cohesive
Feb 23rd 2012
40
agreed re: cohesive...
Feb 23rd 2012
51
I guess your'e right about the cohesion...
Feb 23rd 2012
53
This I could agree with I think...
Feb 23rd 2012
54
yeah shit man
Feb 23rd 2012
41
MOT
Feb 23rd 2012
44
RE: Sidepost: which do you think has aged better?
Feb 23rd 2012
45
While I do think Hard To Earn is a classic album,
Feb 23rd 2012
46
Hard To Earn & ain't even close
Feb 23rd 2012
49
Hard To Earn is really dope but Moment of Truth is my fav Gang Starr LP
Feb 23rd 2012
50
I didn't know Moment of Truth got so much love.
Feb 23rd 2012
56
Thats how I see it also
Feb 27th 2012
120
i hear what y'all sayin, but MOT is THAT shit to me
Feb 23rd 2012
57
Both Are Great But "Moment Of Truth" Gets My Vote
Feb 23rd 2012
58
I'm glad you made this post
Feb 24th 2012
59
RE: I'm glad you made this post
Feb 24th 2012
60
MOT is not only Gang Starr's best album
Feb 24th 2012
61
Fully agree and
Feb 24th 2012
65
LOL!!!
Feb 24th 2012
69
Feb 24th 2012
73
      GREAT RESPONSE (n/m)
Feb 24th 2012
75
           Didn't think you wanted to discuss the music.
Feb 24th 2012
76
                discussing music?
Feb 24th 2012
77
                     Funny you say that's all you do when
Feb 24th 2012
78
                          RE: Dude, you're full of shit. Just drop it.
Feb 25th 2012
86
                               and your response proves youre not full of shit?
Feb 25th 2012
87
                                    RE: *your
Feb 25th 2012
88
                                    RE: Nice revision, jackass.
Feb 27th 2012
117
                                         You'RE late as fuck
Feb 27th 2012
119
                                              RE: K.
Feb 27th 2012
121
                                                   Obviously you were calling me on it while I was editing.
Feb 27th 2012
122
                                                        RE: Just so you know how it feels.
Feb 27th 2012
123
                                                             So we can discuss the topic now?
Feb 27th 2012
124
                                                                  Post 13, 47, 48, 53
Feb 27th 2012
129
                                                                       You both can shut the fuck up with the psychoanalysis
Feb 27th 2012
132
this dude Primo made a song with Ru and Scarface
Feb 26th 2012
96
No dissing at all but honestly- can you guys listen to Guru the same?
Feb 24th 2012
66
      I see what you're saying - but...
Feb 24th 2012
67
      A flawed messenger doesn't lessen the message
Feb 24th 2012
68
      as far as I know, 'That' Guru doesn't exist
Feb 24th 2012
70
           fair enough to all 3 of you above
Feb 24th 2012
81
                Wait what?
Feb 25th 2012
83
                     just that you guys are huge Gangstarr fans but would
Feb 25th 2012
84
                          Oh word - yea.
Feb 25th 2012
85
so you guys weren't listening to rap when "hard to earn" dropped.
Feb 24th 2012
71
^^^proof he doesn't read before typing his relentless dumb shit
Feb 24th 2012
74
Wrong again :/
Feb 24th 2012
80
^^^
Feb 26th 2012
92
      so you ignore people saying otherwise to cosign the same bullshit?
Feb 26th 2012
93
RE: Which Gang Starr album is better? Hard To Earn vs. Moment of Truth
Feb 24th 2012
72
One of those albums had K-Ci & JoJo on it.
Feb 24th 2012
79
lol
May 28th 2012
144
Close
Feb 25th 2012
82
No matter how bizarre and different you think you are
Feb 26th 2012
95
Moment of Truth >>> No More Mr Nice Guy
Feb 26th 2012
97
I couldn't disagree more
Feb 26th 2012
98
RE: I couldn't disagree more
Feb 26th 2012
101
      RE: I couldn't disagree more
Feb 26th 2012
102
           Mass Appeal: the Best of Gang Starr
Feb 26th 2012
105
           and?
Feb 26th 2012
107
           Re: Jodeci
Feb 26th 2012
115
           it's definitely funny to me how the old guard reacted to hip-hop
Feb 27th 2012
133
                it wasn't so much rules and regulations
Feb 27th 2012
134
                     Deck or Krumb
Feb 27th 2012
135
RE: Moment of Truth >>> No More Mr Nice Guy
Feb 26th 2012
99
my ranking
Feb 26th 2012
100
I could see putting No More Mr Nice Guy into Juvenille Hell territory
Feb 26th 2012
108
RE: This is very revisionist:
Feb 27th 2012
125
      The time frame of 94-98' consisted of more than enough material
Feb 27th 2012
126
           Dude
Feb 27th 2012
127
                a legendary group goes on a hiatus
Feb 27th 2012
128
                     But they didn't have Gang Starr material
Feb 27th 2012
130
                     RE: But that's all work **outside** the group.
Feb 27th 2012
131
so it really all boils down to which album resonated with you more
Feb 26th 2012
103
I fully agree
Feb 26th 2012
104
true... daily op is actually my favorite
Feb 26th 2012
111
a lot of idiots are doing it in this post, but i can't agree more
Feb 26th 2012
114
Pick which album you have. I just love me some D.J. Premier. One sexy ma...
Feb 26th 2012
106
Hard To Earn
Feb 26th 2012
109
hard to earn but just barely; moment of truth got slightly better songs
Feb 27th 2012
116
Moment of Truth
Feb 27th 2012
118
Daily Operation has my favorite songs.
Feb 27th 2012
136
now I can definitely feel that
Feb 27th 2012
137
      I really go back and forth with DO and HTE
Feb 27th 2012
138
      RE: I really go back and forth with DO and HTE
May 26th 2012
140
      I'm sayin...
Feb 27th 2012
139
the intro to HARD TO EARN...
May 28th 2012
141
Moment of Truth and it ain't even close
May 28th 2012
143
Hard to Earn was one of my first CDs
May 29th 2012
145
red
May 29th 2012
146
tight
Jan 30th 2013
147
RE: tight
Jan 31st 2013
149
Moment
Jan 31st 2013
148
and you niggas need to stop that 'Deck wrote Guru's verse' shit
Jan 31st 2013
152
Moment Of Truth is all-time hip-hop top 10 for me
Jan 31st 2013
153
I'll still take Hard To Earn and Daily Operation over Moment of Truth
Jan 31st 2013
154
I don't really like MOT for some reason
Jan 31st 2013
155
argue all day about who's the best emcees
Feb 01st 2013
156

Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16562 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 07:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "Hard To Earn was the soundtrack to my 9th grade year so it gets my vote"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42239 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 08:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "Which of yall dumb mofo's is voting Moment of Truth?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Don't act like that shit ain't bloated. FOH!!!
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19947 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 09:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "Y I gotta be dum?"
In response to Reply # 2


          

For the record:

"Moment of Truth">any Gang Starr album you list.



"Yo, G, I'm SORRY, I apologize." (c) KRS-One


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 09:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "Moment of Truth is their best album"
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Feb-23-12 09:39 AM by Anonymous

  

          

And lol at bloated.

Other than that terrible interlude before Rep Grows Bigga, that album rides the whole way thru.

Daily Operation and Hard To Earn are both classics as well, but Primo took all of the ill production he did for outside artists between 94-98 and just loaded MOT with that style of bangers.

Of course you probably think it somehow validates you to say one of their older albums is their best though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19947 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 09:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "Yep yes"
In response to Reply # 4


          

>Primo took all of the ill production he did for outside
>artists between 94-98 and just loaded MOT with that style of
>bangers.



__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
GumDrops
Charter member
26088 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "thats why MOT doesnt really hang together"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

and why it IS bloated lol

it sounds like any old primo beats, not beats for gangstarr, and the fact so many guys outside GS unit are on it just ends up to it sounding a bit anonymous for a GS album

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "That doesn't even make sense"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

How is Primo NOT going to sound like Gang Starr.

He IS Gang Starr.

And the guest appearances are maybe the best collective guest appearances of all-time

Deck, MOP, Freddie Foxx, Krumb Snatcha, Scarface, K Ci and JoJo.

Great great album from top to bottom.

And the fact that Primo's style at that point was well known for outside production made it even better to me because Guru sounded like he had something to prove and it's without a doubt his best album lyrically.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
GumDrops
Charter member
26088 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "RE: That doesn't even make sense"
In response to Reply # 29
Thu Feb-23-12 12:30 PM by GumDrops

  

          

>How is Primo NOT going to sound like Gang Starr.
>
>He IS Gang Starr.

although i take it with a pinch of salt, i think premier is being honest when he talks about beats that work best for gang starr and beats he would give to other artists. i dont think come clean or 2nd childhood would work for guru. never mind half the beats he gives to MOP - guru trying to out-MOP freddie foxx or MOP is just a mistake, and that is almost what he was trying to do on MOT.

>And the guest appearances are maybe the best collective guest
>appearances of all-time
>
>Deck, MOP, Freddie Foxx, Krumb Snatcha, Scarface, K Ci and
>JoJo.

sure.

>And the fact that Primo's style at that point was well known
>for outside production made it even better to me because Guru
>sounded like he had something to prove and it's without a
>doubt his best album lyrically.

he was trying too hard.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 02:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "But see, I agree with this."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>>How is Primo NOT going to sound like Gang Starr.
>>
>>He IS Gang Starr.
>
>although i take it with a pinch of salt, i think premier is
>being honest when he talks about beats that work best for gang
>starr and beats he would give to other artists. i dont think
>come clean or 2nd childhood would work for guru. never mind
>half the beats he gives to MOP - guru trying to out-MOP
>freddie foxx or MOP is just a mistake, and that is almost what
>he was trying to do on MOT.
>


I think Primo does keep in mind what MC is on what beat which is why I don't think the complaint of MOT sounding like Primo on cruise control is a valid excuse because all of those beats work for Guru.

Obviously the beats which featured MOP worked for them as well but I think the production was laid out perfectly as far as beats for Guru and then beats for guest spots that Guru could also jump on.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
haji rana pinya
Charter member
53604 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 02:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
110. "15 told them MOT was the best"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

*********************
www.dumhi.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 03:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
112. "Yea cause that's always the answer..."
In response to Reply # 110


          

when someone has a different opinion than you. Definitely.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 03:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
113. "he did?"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

well then, that makes Primo, Guru, & ?uest.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
organix
Member since Jul 10th 2002
855 posts
Thu Jan-31-13 02:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
150. "senior year soundtrack. "
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Jan-31-13 02:18 AM by organix

          

>Don't act like that shit ain't bloated. FOH!!!

Sure it is a long LP, but that came out my senior year of high school and I rocked it to death. I only got around to Hard 2 Earn only a few years ago (though knew the singles well). Maybe is the nostalgia or the fact I "grew up" with Moment of Truth, that it feels like a more natural fit to me. I like the jazzy production a lot. Both LPs are great though. The singles from Hard 2 Earn might be a little bit stronger. You really cannot go wrong with Code, DWYCK, and Mass Appeal.

-----------------------------
http://www.shenzhenphotos.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132061 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 09:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
6. "I lean red"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

not that MOT is poo-poo, far from it. It's the textbook "back from a several year layoff" album.

but Hard To Earn came in the middle of a "F.U." period in music. You could argue that Moment of Truth did, as in 1998, hip-hop was in the midst of a pop-chart dominating, "we really don't hate you, radio" period, and a lot of that album seems to stand firmly to the left of it. But it wasn't as "F.U." as Hard To Earn was.

That album actually shocked me when I heard it the first time. Chilling beats, Guru just cussin' and sounding mad... I remember getting this and LETHAL INJECTION the same day. I took the latter back, and kept this one.

HTE was part of a group of albums that I felt were a direct response to the increasingly slick, accessible sounds of the post-Chronic rap world. I think (New York) rappers put their best efforts out artistically when they were slighted in the mainstream. This album is no different.

I mean, the lead single was "Mass Appeal", a song that basically called out that kind of rap. Probably one of their best known songs.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 10:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
7. "Yo Claw...serious quesion:"
In response to Reply # 6


          

How did you determine your sports allegiances? Haha - they seem maddddd random. Unless I'm missing something in which case just explain it to me and I'll go away. But the combination of teams in your signature just seem to have no rhyme or reason. I'm legitimately interested to know how you landed on all of them.

>Jays | Cavs | (Space for Rent) | Sabres | Tarheels

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132061 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 10:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
8. "oh, whew... that's easy."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>How did you determine your sports allegiances? Haha - they
>seem maddddd random. Unless I'm missing something in which
>case just explain it to me and I'll go away. But the
>combination of teams in your signature just seem to have no
>rhyme or reason. I'm legitimately interested to know how you
>landed on all of them.

I was born in WNY (Jays, Sabres). Those teams stuck because I saw a good number of their games/ads when I was a kid.

Didn't get into football until late so the Eagles (there's more to this, but that's the general thrust)

Half of my family is from NC and being a Heels fan was non-negotiable.

The Cavs fandom started in that Daugherty/Price era... and I think it was because at the time I mistook them for the Knicks on TV. Someone told me they were the Cleveland team and at the time I was like... "even better!" -- I have a lot of ties to the area, going back before my birth).

Had I stayed in WNY it would have been:

Jays/Sabres/Bills/Knicks/ ...

for college I might have broken ranks and gone w/the Orange(men) (and I briefly entertained the idea of actually going to Cuse).

But since I moved so much, there's little continuity with the teams.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 10:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
9. "Haha fair enough."
In response to Reply # 8


          

A well rounded, hardened sports fan haha...you've seen some pain and struggles with a couple of those teams over the years. But that all makes sense. I figured it had something to do with moving and/or family origins.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 10:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "But to me Doc"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

You explained why you liked it more but none of that had to do with the quality of the music.

I feel Primo and Guru were in more of a zone, a zone that they were working towards, on MOT.

I feel like that's when it all came together.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132061 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
14. "Well, the quality of the music factors into that, as well"
In response to Reply # 10
Thu Feb-23-12 11:31 AM by Dr Claw

  

          

>You explained why you liked it more but none of that had to
>do with the quality of the music.

Premier, in particular, was in the zone that gained him the reputation that he's held for so long in the business. '94 and '95 were the last years where his beats had a shared theme, but none of the real "sameness" that instantly identified them as Premier beats (and were subsequently easily imitated). There was a diversity in the drum kits he would use then. Which says nothing for the outright dirtiness of the finished product ("ALONGWAYTOGO", "Brainstorm", "Tonz of Gunz" "Speak Ya Clout", and "The ? Remainz" which unfortunately was confined to B-Side hell for years).

By '98, Premier had settled into his familar style (though to his credit, MOT has a number of songs that step outside of that comfort zone, namely "You Know My Steez", "Robbin Hood Theory", "Royalty", "My Advice 2 You", and that set's B-side, "So Wassup")... while the beats are hard, a lot of them have the same feeling and structure as what he was providing to artist such as Jeru (on the 2nd album, which I felt was an exercise in bringing that "new Premier" style to the forefront) or O.C. (ditto). There weren't too many outside the above listed that I could see Premier not saving for Gang Starr, but at the same time, the reason why a lot of those songs work is because they are Gang Starr songs.

Guru's own performance may have lacked some of the polish that he had on the surrounding efforts and his own Jazzmatazz albums released in the period, but it loses none of the power. I think the sense of frustration that Guru exhibits on many of the tracks, is best established on HARD TO EARN'S intro, where he goes off on hangers-on, and general wackness of the industry.

The resultant effort is an album that just says "F.U." arguably louder than some of his contemporaries do in the time. Though, not as loudly as Jeru, whose debut album was very much the more refined, yet more biting cousin. Again, context is key, Guru was coming off the Jazzmatazz, which was a much more refined and restrained affair, largely due to the high-profile guests. Premier's most high-profile project in that time was RETURN OF THE BOOM-BAP, which I felt was a legendary "F.U." type of album... it was cool that after Premier and arguably one of the most famous and revered MCs in the history of rap music could make that kind of connection off several tracks, that Guru and Premier could reunite and deliver an even more intense sort of album together.

That spirit and feeling was gone on MOT, as it could have worked to their detriment in the market. Guru has settled into a mode mirroring his albums prior to HARD TO EARN, but with more contemporary sounding production. I think the overall experience and context of the album tends to tilt me toward HARD TO EARN, even if I concede that the careful crafting and efforts of both Guru and Premier produced music to a higher standard.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "RE: Well, the quality of the music factors into that, as well"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


>By '98, Premier had settled into his familar style (though to
>his credit, MOT has a number of songs that step outside of
>that comfort zone, namely "You Know My Steez", "Robbin Hood
>Theory", "Royalty", "My Advice 2 You", and that set's B-side,
>"So Wassup")... while the beats are hard, a lot of them have
>the same feeling and structure as what he was providing to
>artist such as Jeru (on the 2nd album, which I felt was an
>exercise in bringing that "new Premier" style to the
>forefront) or O.C. (ditto). There weren't too many outside the
>above listed that I could see Premier not saving for Gang
>Starr, but at the same time, the reason why a lot of those
>songs work is because they are Gang Starr songs.
>

I guess I just don't see that as an issue. At the end of the day, dope is dope. I'm not going to pause to say "this is dope but it has the same structure as...". I feel that is just searching for reasons to discredit something.

>Guru's own performance may have lacked some of the polish that
>he had on the surrounding efforts and his own Jazzmatazz
>albums released in the period, but it loses none of the power.
>I think the sense of frustration that Guru exhibits on many of
>the tracks, is best established on HARD TO EARN'S intro, where
>he goes off on hangers-on, and general wackness of the
>industry.
>

How is Guru going off on the industry any more than Primo at the end of Royalty? Maybe you feel Guru's performance more on Hard To Earn but I would argue that lyrically and conceptually, he was more focused and executed better on MOT.

>The resultant effort is an album that just says "F.U."
>arguably louder than some of his contemporaries do in the
>time. Though, not as loudly as Jeru, whose debut album was
>very much the more refined, yet more biting cousin. Again,
>context is key, Guru was coming off the Jazzmatazz, which was
>a much more refined and restrained affair, largely due to the
>high-profile guests. Premier's most high-profile project in
>that time was RETURN OF THE BOOM-BAP, which I felt was a
>legendary "F.U." type of album... it was cool that after
>Premier and arguably one of the most famous and revered MCs in
>the history of rap music could make that kind of connection
>off several tracks, that Guru and Premier could reunite and
>deliver an even more intense sort of album together.
>

But all this is really stating is that you have a preference to albums that are an "F.U." statement.

>That spirit and feeling was gone on MOT, as it could have
>worked to their detriment in the market. Guru has settled into
>a mode mirroring his albums prior to HARD TO EARN, but with
>more contemporary sounding production. I think the overall
>experience and context of the album tends to tilt me toward
>HARD TO EARN, even if I concede that the careful crafting and
>efforts of both Guru and Premier produced music to a higher
>standard.

I hear you...but like I said, I think at this point your opinion is what it is due to your preference. I actually gave both albums a spin recently and I may even like Hard To Earn better but I just can't say it's due to the quality. It kind of like The Roots. I feel they hit their stride and everything came together on Game Theory but Illadelph is my favorite album of theirs for other reasons.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

micMajestic
Charter member
22938 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 10:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "Hard to Earn. I find mature rap slightly boring."
In response to Reply # 0


          

There's a lot of really good songs on Moment of Truth, but I get the urge to skip around often. Sometimes it's not even the content, it's just that the beats have a somber, reflective tone to them. I prefer the swaggerful, surly feel of Hard to Earn. I respect the hell out of Moment of Truth and I think it's a great piece of art, but it doesn't give me the type of energy that I'm usually looking for when I listen to rap.
_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is THE best hip-hop related internet radio show
Catch up http://pncradio.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 10:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
12. "Good breakdown."
In response to Reply # 11


          

I love both, I prefer Moment of Truth personally just because I feel it's more polished. But it doesn't win by much.

But, as I said, your breakdown is pretty accurate IMO. Depending on my mood, I'll listen to one or the other. If I'm in the mood for more upbeat, boastful, "swag" (hate that word) type listening, HTE gets the nod. If I'm reflective or just want easy listening, MOT will be popped in.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9765 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 10:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "Hard to earn"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I thought "Moment of truth" was amazing when it came out but it is lacking some of the energy with dull tracks like the Mall and a general sense of malaise in the second half.

Hard to earn I didn't like initially because I felt Gang Starr were trying too hard to sound hardcore-"Daily Operation" was hardcore too but "laidback" hardcore. Then it dawned on me that the sound of those records aren't really that much different, "HTE" just KNOCKS much harder in the drums and stuff whereas "DO" sounds a bit lo-fi in comparison. Basically, "HTE" sounds more muscular and in your face based on what I guess is engineering and equipment and I wasn't used to that sound with Gang Starr but that was what Primo was going for with his outside productions so I have warmed up to it over the years.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
GumDrops
Charter member
26088 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "Hard to earn is just harder"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

the planet alone makes that album classic

FALA and suckas need bodyguards are weak-ish moments but MOT is a pretty bloated album, with too many guests, guru and premier not really that in sync, premier talking too much, and theres nothing on there to match daily operation or hard to earn. its gangstarr basically collecting their praise, a victory lap, after so many years of keeping it underground, but its nothing to write home about on its own strength. i actually prefer the ownerz.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9765 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 04:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "Yeah, those two songs had annoying choruses"
In response to Reply # 17
Thu Feb-23-12 04:35 PM by Jakob Hellberg

          

>FALA and suckas need bodyguards are weak-ish moments

That's NOT the type of choruses I want to hear on a Gang Starr album but it was cool in NYC at the time so... Additionally, "Aaight, chill" is an excersise in tedium, "Dwyck" and "Now your'e Mine" don't fit stylistically even if they are dope and Primo wasted a really cool beat on a Melachi the Nutcracker interlude (not a big deal but still).EDIT:Then again, I can't really hear Guru flowing over that beat so maybe it was a good way to get a cool idea out but i would have prefered it as an instrumental along the lines of the interludes on "Daily Operation" and "Step"

Basically, not the most consistent Gang Starr album but I still like it more than "Moment of truth".

Actually, I think both records are awesome-flaws and all-but the last times I've played "MOT", I start to lose interest in the second half and I don't think it measure up to the preceding three; it's just too long and inconsistent and even a bit boring at points. Also, primo was Primo(tm); it's a great formula but there are many great songs on the preceding albums that sounds totally unlike what he would do later.

MOT felt very important at the time because the Rawkus/underground-movement was in full swing and gang Starr were the heroes to all the true heads but at the same time, mainstream Hip-Hop was going down the shitter so the album was like "Yes! the legends are keeping it real! Boom Bap forever!" which of course is also what everyone expected after the long break. But yeah, I think it felt better then than it does now...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ChiefRocka
Member since Sep 08th 2009
406 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 05:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
91. "F.A.L.A. & Suckas Need Bodyguards"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

LOL those are 2 of my favorite joints on the album, you're buggin!



F.A.L.A. is a prime example of how Primo turns shit into sugar. He just repeats basically the same piano key over and over again, throws it over some drums that slap, and sprinkles in a whistle. And turns it into a dope vintage 90's east coast classic beat. (not to mention the scratching at the end which was dope)


& I loved hearing angry Guru on Suckas need bodyguards. It was almost like "see, this guy isn't a robot that was engineered to spit concise 16's and drop knowledge. He has emotions too." I didn't think it was forced or corny though, he just seemed like he was getting a lot of shit off his chest.

_________________________________
Yes Yes Y'all

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132061 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
20. "I think you bring up an interesting perspective"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>Hard to earn I didn't like initially because I felt Gang Starr
>were trying too hard to sound hardcore

this is what I was touching on with my earlier reply; that I was just "shocked" at the harder edge that a lot of these songs had. Later, I came to the conclusion that this was no harder than earlier efforts, save the extra cussing from Guru's part.

Guru was more of a "refined" rapper to me; he might curse but not too often. I mean, "Take It Personal" was a good example of being restrained lyrically, but hardcore. it was one of the core appeals of Gang Starr (why they were never vilified in the press for example). It'd blow up your speakers, but you could get away with listening to a song like that if you were younger. (IMO, a lot of Public Enemy was like this, too. Lines like "FUCKIN UP THE GOVERNMENT" from Chuck D were rarer than was printed).

More than this, I felt this (strangely enough) about Tribe's BEATS, RHYMES & LIFE. I didn't really see ATCQ as a real "cussing" or "hardcore" group, at least not lyrically; so to hear Q-Tip going off like he did and hearing gunshots in the coda of one of the first tracks off the album I was like WTF?!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9765 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 04:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "Yes, ''Suckas need bodyguards'' in particular..."
In response to Reply # 20


          

That song really threw me off because I was used to hearing him cool and in control and here both the words and the sound of his actual voice was like a guy really pissed off!!!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

GumDrops
Charter member
26088 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "if anyone says moment of truth i know its just cos they were"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

younger when it came out than when hard to earn was released.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
18. "Wait.............................................."
In response to Reply # 15


          

.........................................................................................................what?

Hard to Earn - released 1994
Moment of Truth - released 1998

>younger when it came out than when hard to earn was
>released.

.....................................what.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
GumDrops
Charter member
26088 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "it always seems that the people who like MOT best"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

MOT was the first gangstarr album that they bought

hence they were younger

but really the best gang starr albums were step in the arena, hard to earn and daily operation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
22. "Oh."
In response to Reply # 21


          

>MOT was the first gangstarr album that they bought
>
>hence they were younger

Ok. You didn't word it that way so I was confused. I see what you're saying now.


>but really the best gang starr albums were step in the arena,
>hard to earn and daily operation

Well, sure. In your opinion. I bought HTE before I bought MOT and, therefore, was younger when I first heard HTE...and I like MOT better.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19947 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "Wait, what happens when your assumption is wrong?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

I had "Hard to Earn" first, then MOT, then "Full Clip", and then their first 3 albums.

Everyone else is offering well-reasoned explanations for why they may prefer "Hard to Earn" and you're playing the age card on albums that have been out more than long enough for people to have made up their minds on which album they like more based on the merits of the music.



__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
GumDrops
Charter member
26088 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "i just remember being really surprised"
In response to Reply # 24
Thu Feb-23-12 12:16 PM by GumDrops

  

          

when i first joined the lesson at how many people thought MOT was their best album. i put it down to their age lol. i cant think of another reason. most people that like life after death seem to have missed ready to die too. i think age has a lot to do with the albums you really love.

then of course theres just opinions that come down to bad taste lol

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
32. "Ugh."
In response to Reply # 27


          

>then of course theres just opinions that come down to bad
>taste lol

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "Actually you don't know because I had Hard To Earn when it dropped"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Moment of Truth is just simply the better album.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
IrieDave
Member since Feb 02nd 2008
79 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 04:02 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
90. "You mean older right?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

Cause I would have voted Moment of Truth a few years ago for that exact reason, cause I was only 10 when Hard To Earn came out. But now I realize it's better. In fact everything from like '89-'96 is the best.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44490 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
16. ""Hard to Earn" is their best. MOT has "The Mall" on it..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And the aforementioned obnoxious "Rep Grows Bigga" interlude. Love "MOT" in general, but "Hard to Earn" is just better.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
19. "Yea The Mall is really poor..."
In response to Reply # 16


          

I agree there for sure.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19947 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "*obligatory ''The Mall'' isn't the worst thing in the world defense*"
In response to Reply # 16


          

lol

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44490 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
28. "The hook on "The Mall" is worse than scavies and gout"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
33. "I laughed. And agree."
In response to Reply # 28


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19947 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "Ha! The beat, tho"
In response to Reply # 28


          

For a materialistic brag-fest, the verses are solid and I eff with the beat.

I'll admit that MoT wouldn't suffer any if "The Mall" wasn't on the album, but as far as songs that always come up in "worst song on otherwise great albums" discussions, it's a solid track.

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
soulsupreme
Member since Dec 14th 2004
8536 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 05:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
52. "can't disagree with that...lol "
In response to Reply # 28


  

          


______________________________________________________________
http://twitter.com/Gedi

"This is your world. Shape it or someone else will." - Gary Lew

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132061 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
31. "I agree"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

I felt like "Next Time" was probably a better example, even though it's not a bad song... Premier could have dropped that beat with someone other than Guru and it'd still work... not as well, but it would work.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
34. "Yea, Next Time is definitely..."
In response to Reply # 31


          

a beat that could've been used for a lot of people. Love that track regardless tho.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18068 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 08:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
62. "Guru produced that"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

with Primo doing the drums on it

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 08:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
63. "C'mon! Really?"
In response to Reply # 62


          

I'm embarrassed that I didn't know that. I'm gonna need to look for myself (not that I have any reason to not believe you, I just want to read the credits myself for visual proof). That's wild. I always assumed it was Primo, for a million obvious reasons.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18068 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 08:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "easy mistake to make"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

he also did She Knows What She Wants

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
1217 posts
Mon May-28-12 01:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
142. "Are you sure it's not Make Em Pay?"
In response to Reply # 62


          

I think that's the joint that Guru picked the sample and Primo did drums.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18068 posts
Thu Jan-31-13 08:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
151. "he did She Knows and co-produced Make Em Pay/Next Time"
In response to Reply # 142
Thu Jan-31-13 08:35 AM by Garhart Poppwell

  

          

.

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
s t a r s k y
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
2396 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 02:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
42. "G Dep's verse saves it for me."
In response to Reply # 26
Thu Feb-23-12 02:01 PM by s t a r s k y

  

          

________________________________

(屮゚Д゚ )屮

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
unohoo
Charter member
15278 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 10:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
55. "Me too."
In response to Reply # 42


          

I'm surprised it's getting hated on like that.

--------------------

blah blah blah

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts
Sat Feb-25-12 11:04 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
89. "clearly the worst song is "She knows what she wants""
In response to Reply # 26
Sat Feb-25-12 11:05 PM by k_orr

  

          

Yet every time this topic comes up, folks give this bullshit a pass cause they don't like shopping?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9koEWoHu4c

Really, this song ain't worse than the Mall?

There's nothing redeeming about this song.
At least the Mall sounds like Primo.

one
k. orr

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18068 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 09:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
94. "there's a reason SKWSW doesn't sound like Primo"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

and it's a great song in my opinion

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

My_SP1200_Broken_Again
Charter member
56986 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:14 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
25. "nothing on MOT is seeing Mass Appeal/Code of the Streets"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Feb-23-12 12:14 PM by My_SP1200_Broken_Aga

  

          

...or even Speak Ya Clout for that matter ...That said, MOT is an incredible album and along with Petes Soul Survivor, the best album from 1998

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
MILF DOOM
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
3675 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 01:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "RE: nothing on MOT is seeing Mass Appeal/Code of the Streets"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

don't forget DWYCK as well

.................. ___@@@__
......_____//_________\\__________
--o---------ASYLUM POLICE---------------@)
---- `----(@)=========+====(@)---'

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ChuckFoPrez
Charter member
47859 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 12:40 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
35. "My preference is MOT over HTE, but Daily Operation is their best"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And yes I'm old enough to have bought them as they were released.

Even now I'll listen to MOT and DO more than SITA and HTE, but that's just my preference.

https://twitter.com/chuck4prez

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
31794 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 01:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "feels like MOT is more cohesive "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

while Hard To Earn's brightest spots outshine the brightest on Moment of truth

there is a common theme that they do a pretty good job of sticking to on M.O.T, maybe its like that on Hard to Earn, I'll have to go back and re-listen

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
soulsupreme
Member since Dec 14th 2004
8536 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 05:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
51. "agreed re: cohesive... "
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

sonically/thematically Moment Of Truth outshines Hard To Earn IMO.

______________________________________________________________
http://twitter.com/Gedi

"This is your world. Shape it or someone else will." - Gary Lew

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9765 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 05:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. "I guess your'e right about the cohesion..."
In response to Reply # 40


          

Both "Dwyck" and "Now your'e mine" were old songs that don't really fit IMO-they don't even have the same type of sound, you can hear it in the drums. And there's some *blatant* filler whereas MOT is just song after song of solid Gang Starr with some annoying talking thrown in every now and then but still. Doesn't make it better though IMO...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 06:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
54. "This I could agree with I think..."
In response to Reply # 40


          

>feels like MOT is more cohesive while Hard To Earn's brightest spots >outshine the brightest
>on Moment of truth

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6324 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 01:44 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "yeah shit man"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i might have to go re-listen my damn self, despite my vote for MOT

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

las raises
Member since Aug 31st 2002
14974 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 02:32 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "MOT"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-----------------------------------------------------------------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Austin
Charter member
9418 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 02:44 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "RE: Sidepost: which do you think has aged better?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This is a question where I would vote Moment of Truth to the OP, but I think Hard to Earn would be the answer this question.

~Austin

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BlackandProud
Member since Feb 08th 2012
181 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 03:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "While I do think Hard To Earn is a classic album, "
In response to Reply # 0


          

I think Moment of Truth just flowed better from start to finish as an album. My vote goes to Moment of Truth.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Roadblock
Charter member
7865 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 05:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "Hard To Earn & ain't even close"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

@GetoutTheroom
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
******************************************
https://twitter.com/Jayric

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

soulsupreme
Member since Dec 14th 2004
8536 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 05:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
50. "Hard To Earn is really dope but Moment of Truth is my fav Gang Starr LP"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______________________________________________________________
http://twitter.com/Gedi

"This is your world. Shape it or someone else will." - Gary Lew

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

unohoo
Charter member
15278 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 10:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
56. "I didn't know Moment of Truth got so much love."
In response to Reply # 0


          

To me the highs on Hard to Earn are higher than Moment of Truth.
A few of the other posters have already given good reasons why.

But to me, Hard To Earn is the last of a trio of great Gang Starr albums starting with Step In the Arena and ending with Hard To Earn.

--------------------

blah blah blah

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
debo40oz
Member since Apr 16th 2003
4081 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 11:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
120. "Thats how I see it also"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Calico
Charter member
24604 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
57. "i hear what y'all sayin, but MOT is THAT shit to me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...i love HTE too, so it's close, but i start thinking bout "Royalty", "Above the clouds", "Work", "Betrayal", "Rep Grows Bigger", "Robin Hood Theory", "you know my steeze", militia", "ny straight talk", "next time", etc.....i really played the fuck outta that album...

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
13770 posts
Thu Feb-23-12 11:49 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
58. "Both Are Great But "Moment Of Truth" Gets My Vote"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

;)


https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Delajoo
Member since Jul 30th 2010
1331 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 02:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "I'm glad you made this post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I feel like there's lots of groups that you need to have knowledge of fully to really understand the headspace that The Lesson is at.

Dilla is one, obviously the Roots, Tribe, etc...

I've heard tons of Gang Starr tracks, and have strong feelings, memories about them, but only "singles", specific songs. And I've never gotten a chance to dig deep. Since this post I've listened to MOT like 3 times through. Going to go backwards, and then listen to Ownerz.

Thanks for indirectly motivating. I'm in hip hop heaven right now.

-------------------
village.fm/okayplayer | @delajoo
"Whether you're a rock star or a garbage man, if you think about yourself all the time, you won't be very good at what you do." - Frusciante

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BlackandProud
Member since Feb 08th 2012
181 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 02:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "RE: I'm glad you made this post"
In response to Reply # 59


          

Both Hard To Earn and Moment of Truth are classic albums but Moment of Truth just flows better as an album in my opinion. Gang Starr has some incredible albums.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18068 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 07:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "MOT is not only Gang Starr's best album"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's one of the best albums Hip Hop has ever produced
'Ru covered more ground on this record than people realize
a lot of the songs even when it seems like he's just saying some fly shit, he's actually talking to/about himself in an earnest way
it was full of knowledge but not preachy, artful and authoritative but not self-important, and stayed true to the past but looked to the future
and Primo took the new techniques he created, as Nonny said up top, in the previous 5 years and put them in the Gang Starr mold and created a 2o song album with no filler
cmon now, this nigga was taking samps and slowing them down with the chops to speed them up-listen to Royalty then listen to the source record
you HAVE to give it up, duke did really did some amazing shit on that album

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 08:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
65. "Fully agree and"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

I really think this is one of those times where people just refuse to say anything is better than the classic from back in the day.

People really feel good about themselves when they feel like they were up on the old school albums and it's almost as if they think that validates their credibility as a hip-hop fan.

They like to be able to tell the newer hip-hop fans that they need to get up on the older classics. Is like that separates them as a hip-hop listener.

And to be honest, in most cases it works, but MOT is one of those albums that is simply better than the ones before it and again I will use Game Theory as another example.

MOT is Guru's finest moment and I really don't understand thinking the production on the previous albums is better and that is kind of a slap in the face to Primo. Because no matter how classic those older records are, Primo put his foot into MOT and like you said, laced 20 joints with the style he was perfecting and known for. MOT is where is all came together.

You Know My Steez, Robbin Hoodz Theory, Work, Royalty, Above The Clouds, JFK to LAX, The Set-Up, Moment of Truth, BI vs Friendship, Militia, Rep Grows Bigga, What I'm Here For, She Knows, NY Straight Talk, My Advice To You, Make Them Pay, The Mall, Scandolous, Next Time, In Memory Of...

Look at those tracks...where are the weak songs? The Mall may be corny because of the hook, but that beat is dope as hell and Dep's verse is hot. Rep Grows is weaker and the interlude before hand helps in giving it the skip button but the track itself is still a dope album cut and a different style to break up the album. The Set-Up isn't a stand out but that beat is grimy as hell and it's a cool 3 minute joint.

What other complaints can you have about the album?

And I can even see people saying HTE has higher highs because they may be more connected to Mass Appeal or Code of The Streets or DWYCK but as a whole...nah.

And I LOVE HTE. Both albums are in my top whatever.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9765 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 12:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "LOL!!!"
In response to Reply # 65


          

>I really think this is one of those times where people just
>refuse to say anything is better than the classic from back in
>the day.
>
>People really feel good about themselves when they feel like
>they were up on the old school albums and it's almost as if
>they think that validates their credibility as a hip-hop fan.
>
>They like to be able to tell the newer hip-hop fans that they
>need to get up on the older classics. Is like that separates
>them as a hip-hop listener.


First of all, hard to earn came out in 94-that's not old school. I was 19 when that album dropped and 23 when MOT dropped-not a big deal. I could just as well say that the reason you dig MOT more is because you were too young to truly appreciate HTE when it came out whereas MOT hit you at just the right moment-that's the type of nonsense you push.

you always act very insecure in these threads; why not just let people have their opinions without you projecting or assuming there is some agenda or underlying motive (quote:"They like to be able to tell the newer hip-hop fans that they need to get up on the older classics. Is like that separates them as a hip-hop listener.")

It's actually insulting...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 09:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
73. ""
In response to Reply # 69


  

          


>First of all, hard to earn came out in 94-that's not old
>school. I was 19 when that album dropped and 23 when MOT
>dropped-not a big deal. I could just as well say that the
>reason you dig MOT more is because you were too young to truly
>appreciate HTE when it came out whereas MOT hit you at just
>the right moment-that's the type of nonsense you push.
>

You could say this but it would be wrong. I copped HTE when it dropped as well. 94-96 are my favorite years in Hip-Hop and in most cases, I prefer the albums from that time frame than the ones from 98 because 97 really was a shifting year. So you can say there isn't that much time difference but to me there is because of the state of the game.

>you always act very insecure in these threads; why not just
>let people have their opinions without you projecting or
>assuming there is some agenda or underlying motive
>(quote:"They like to be able to tell the newer hip-hop fans
>that they need to get up on the older classics. Is like that
>separates them as a hip-hop listener.")
>

Insecure? What the entire fuck are you talking about? The very word you just typed "opinions" is exactly what I'm talking about. People never can separate their opinion from the actual music. Just like I said, Illadelph is my favorite Roots album, I can still objectively say that Game Theory is their best album. People love skipping over points of peoples reply just because they catch feeling about another. and my reply was more of a response to people who are attempting to "project their opinion" that HTE is without a doubt better than MOT.

>It's actually insulting...

Something is only insulting if you take it that way so I don't really give a fuck my man.

Now reply if you want to talk about the quality of the music instead of your bitch ass feeling.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9765 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 09:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
75. "GREAT RESPONSE (n/m)"
In response to Reply # 73


          

.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 09:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
76. "Didn't think you wanted to discuss the music."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

I thought this was about music?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9765 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 10:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
77. "discussing music?"
In response to Reply # 76


          

That's all I ever do. You on the other hand are more interested in attacking the messenger than the message which put you in the Cold Truth/Philpot/(unfortunately sometime Howisya)-category. I have lost enough braincells dealing with guys of your sort...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 10:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
78. "Funny you say that's all you do when"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

You came on here catching feelings about something I posted and didn't mention with album in the entire body of your reply?

Is that not true?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
Austin
Charter member
9418 posts
Sat Feb-25-12 05:39 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
86. "RE: Dude, you're full of shit. Just drop it."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

~Austin

Please donate.
For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE
For Cris: http://bit.ly/whuzky

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Sat Feb-25-12 06:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
87. "and your response proves youre not full of shit?"
In response to Reply # 86
Sat Feb-25-12 06:56 PM by Anonymous

  

          

Why don't you go ahead and shut the fuck up because no one was even talking to you.

Again, you can join in with this other guy and let me know when you want to discuss the albums.

Or you two can continue to prove my point.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
Austin
Charter member
9418 posts
Sat Feb-25-12 06:56 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "RE: *your"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

~Austin

Please donate.
For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE
For Cris: http://bit.ly/whuzky

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
Austin
Charter member
9418 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 12:40 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
117. "RE: Nice revision, jackass."
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

At least I can admit when I'm wrong.

~Austin

Please donate.
For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE
For Cris: http://bit.ly/whuzky

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 07:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
119. "You'RE late as fuck"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

I revised it before you even replied the first time.

And yes I was wrong.

I posted.

Read the post and hit edit.

So who's the jackass?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
Austin
Charter member
9418 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 12:40 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
121. "RE: K."
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

>I revised it before you even replied the first time.
>

That's why I was able to see it, right?

Keep trying, champ.

~Austin

Please donate.
For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE
For Cris: http://bit.ly/whuzky

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 12:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
122. "Obviously you were calling me on it while I was editing."
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

Either way, if fixing someone's misspelled word because you have nothing of relevancy to add to the topic at hand makes you feel better then...by all means.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                        
Austin
Charter member
9418 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 12:55 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
123. "RE: Just so you know how it feels."
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

The psychoanalysis has begun, so I'll be leaving now.

~Austin

Please donate.
For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE
For Cris: http://bit.ly/whuzky

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                            
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 01:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
124. "So we can discuss the topic now?"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

Because I'm still waiting for either of you to talk about Hard to Earn or Moment of Truth.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                                
Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9765 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 01:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
129. "Post 13, 47, 48, 53 "
In response to Reply # 124


          

All before your psychoanalysis BTW...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                                    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 02:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
132. "You both can shut the fuck up with the psychoanalysis "
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

It is what it is. And you'd be ignorant to think my statements don't hold weight.

And I spoke about the album with other posters as well.

You came at me about nothing in regards to the album.

Either way, I know you're cool peoples on here, quite different from Austin, so I'll continue the convo.

Hard to Earn is just not as polished as MoT in my opinion. And I don't mean polished by the sound because I know some would say that is a negative. I just mean more polished in the sense that the album was more carefully crafted. I feel the scratching is better throughout. I feel the beats on a whole are better throughout. And I definitely feel like Guru was at his peak as far as his lyrics, delivery, and content.

Hard to Earn is a 1994 classic to me and there aren't many albums better than those that came out in that era. But I feel MoT is the exception. I can tell how much work went into that record. I can see why Guru and Primo say it's their best.

I really feel like its on the short list of greatest produced albums of all- time and the fact Guru was at his peak only is a plus.

I feel like Primo was in his zone at that point and Guru felt like he had something to prove because everyone was lacing Primo's beats. He had to step it up for people not to say, "damn I wish Primo gave this beat to Nas"

And they executed perfectly. And I don't like albums to be any longer than 16 tracks...and they went for the gusto with the 20 and made a complete banger.

To me, there is just something special about MoT. Hard to Earn and Daily Operation are classics but MoT was a premeditated opus that hit the mark.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18068 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 09:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
96. "this dude Primo made a song with Ru and Scarface"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

and neither one of them sound out of place
I'd have thought that shit would be pretty close to impossible to pull off, and I doubt anyone else could've done it
also both Primo and pre-Solar 'Ru said MOT was the best record either worked on by leaps and bounds

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4790 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 12:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
66. "No dissing at all but honestly- can you guys listen to Guru the same?"
In response to Reply # 61


          


I hope everyone understands I mean no offense in any way.

but I'm just curious.

The way he let himself get manipulated, etc.

Can you listen to him "dropping knowledge" etc and still feel it the same way?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 12:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
67. "I see what you're saying - but..."
In response to Reply # 66


          

personally I never really thought about it like that, when going back and listening to old GS albums. I just chalk it up to everyone's got moments of weakness and anyone can be duped given the right/perfect circumstances. So I can't let what ultimately did him in change the way I feel about all the things he said and all the important knowledge he dropped on his old works at all.

But again, I do definitely see your point.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19947 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 12:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "A flawed messenger doesn't lessen the message"
In response to Reply # 66


          

Or my enjoyment of the music.
__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132061 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 05:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
70. "as far as I know, 'That' Guru doesn't exist"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

didn't exist on wax, and certainly not in the age of Gang Starr.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4790 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 11:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
81. "fair enough to all 3 of you above"
In response to Reply # 70


          


I was never a Gangstarr fan **like that** so Im not/wasn't as emotionally connected to the situation.

I was curious if any of his diehards felt a certain way about it.

Somehow I knew Brew and Doc would reply to me too...guess that's not rocket science though.


I actually gave MOT a spin the other day...as far the as the topic I'd have to give MOT the nod but will give HTE a spin this weekend. Been a while...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Sat Feb-25-12 11:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
83. "Wait what?"
In response to Reply # 81


          

>Somehow I knew Brew and Doc would reply to me too...guess
>that's not rocket science though.

What's that supposed to mean?

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4790 posts
Sat Feb-25-12 12:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
84. "just that you guys are huge Gangstarr fans but would"
In response to Reply # 83


          


know that I'm not trying to be an a$$hole, or disrespectful....just asking a question

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
23913 posts
Sat Feb-25-12 03:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
85. "Oh word - yea."
In response to Reply # 84
Sat Feb-25-12 03:31 PM by Brew

          

I don't think that question is disrespectful at all. It makes sense. And with people like Guru who get pretty personal in their music, it's a reasonable question to ask.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 07:04 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
71. "so you guys weren't listening to rap when "hard to earn" dropped."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

only explanation for the results here.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 09:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
74. "^^^proof he doesn't read before typing his relentless dumb shit"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

>only explanation for the results here.



  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19947 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 11:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "Wrong again :/ "
In response to Reply # 71


          


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
GumDrops
Charter member
26088 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 08:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
92. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 08:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
93. "so you ignore people saying otherwise to cosign the same bullshit?"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

how fucking stupid are we really going to get on these boards.

I HAD HARD TO EARN IN 1994.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

melanon
Member since Oct 21st 2003
2012 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 09:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
72. "RE: Which Gang Starr album is better? Hard To Earn vs. Moment of Truth"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Hard To Earn for the EXACT reasons Dr Claw specified.


MOT saw the post Rawkus boom trustafarian crowd play johnny come lately IMO. And it's bloated.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

emeyesi
Charter member
10914 posts
Fri Feb-24-12 10:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
79. "One of those albums had K-Ci & JoJo on it. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The other did not.

.imageyenation.dot.com.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
selppataei
Charter member
2012 posts
Mon May-28-12 04:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
144. "lol"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

____________________________________________________________
http://proc.bandcamp.com
http://twitter.com/grandproc

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lil Rabies
Member since Oct 12th 2005
1584 posts
Sat Feb-25-12 12:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
82. "Close"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Primo's outside work has a lot to do with it. I feel MOT is Gang Starr's attempt to overcome the mistake made with Group Home's debut. Everybody knows those beats shouldn't have been given to Group Home, that was the consensus then, still is. Primo's beats are as good as that album, but to make sure the lyrics weren't going to be an issue, they recruited heavily. Props to dude with the layover point, because that's clearly an issue despite their attempts, but on a technical level, they needed just above average lyrics for the downright bangers of tracks on this album. Primo MOT> Primo HTE.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18068 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 09:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
95. "No matter how bizarre and different you think you are"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

your team could never dream of competing with Gang Starr (c) one of the best yet

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 10:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
97. "Moment of Truth >>> No More Mr Nice Guy"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Feb-26-12 10:31 AM by bentagain

  

          

which puts it in 4th place

1 - Hard To Earn
2 - Step In The Arena
3 - Daily Operation
4 - Moment Of Truth

this is one of those only on the Lesson posts right?

I think the context is lost

There wasn't much anticipation for MOT

Guru and Premo had all but gone their separate ways, at least that was the impression

Guru had moved onto his Jazzmatazz series, which suprisingly didn't include Premo

Premo had all but flooded the market with his production 94-98

I got the feeling that both of these guys were getting bigger as individuals

outside of the Group

and the Gangstarr routine felt forced on MOT

The albums I ranked above MOT had far more impact on Hip-Hop

they defined the Gangstarr formula

and it was fresh

by the time MOT got released it sounded like everything else

"...then you was not there" - JUSTICE





---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 10:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
98. "I couldn't disagree more"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

>this is one of those only on the Lesson posts right?
>

No, it really isn't. An only in the Lesson post would be "Doom is the GOAT"


>I think the context is lost
>
>There wasn't much anticipation for MOT
>

Really? I would say the 4 year hiatus coupled with how dope Primo's outside production was would equal the exact opposite. The cards were stacked against them at that point. You had newer fans to hip-hop that knew Primo from outside production first copping their first Gang Starr album, and you had older fans who wondered what a Gang Starr album in 1998 would sound like and I don't think either group was disappointed regardless of where you place MOT in their catalogue. That right there is a testament to how dope the album is.


>Guru and Premo had all but gone their separate ways, at least
>that was the impression
>

That was never my impression at all. I felt like they were just doing outside work but I never thought of them as breaking up.


>Guru had moved onto his Jazzmatazz series, which suprisingly
>didn't include Premo
>

Yea but that Primo remix of Lifesaver was the shit!


>Premo had all but flooded the market with his production
>94-98
>

He did but he was at his peak at that point. EVERYTHING was insane. People were still copping albums if they saw Primo was involved at that time and All City is proof of that. Primo was lacing everyone and when the word of a long-overdue Gang Starr album broke, people were highly anticipating it.


>I got the feeling that both of these guys were getting bigger
>as individuals
>
>outside of the Group
>

I don't see how that factors in at all, one way or the other.


>and the Gangstarr routine felt forced on MOT
>

I really don't think that at all either. MOT IS Gang Starr. I love how people on here will say things like this merely from an outsiders perspective when both Primo and Guru said it was their best album. How do you know that every album before wasn't forced and they finally got it right IN THEIR MINDS with MOT?


>The albums I ranked above MOT had far more impact on Hip-Hop
>

Impact is one of the most overrated ideas of how to rank albums. an album's impact has little to nothing to do with it's quality.


>they defined the Gangstarr formula
>

see the MOT Intro.


>and it was fresh
>

You Know My Steez wasn't fresh?
Royalty wasn't fresh?
Above The Clouds wasn't fresh?
the fact they worked with artists outside the camp and made it work wasn't fresh?

come on man, people are reaching at this point.

>by the time MOT got released it sounded like everything else
>

If I was Primo and Guru I would either laugh that off or tell you to shut the fuck up. Because as an artist, it's disrespectful to say an opus like MOT with Primo lacing the beats and Guru lacing the lyrics sounded just like all of Primo's outside production. Because that is what you're hinting at right?

People don't appreciate the subtle ways that Primo gears his beats for the MC he is working with all while keeping his signature sound.

and Guru sounds nothing like Nas, Jay, Biggie, OC, Jeru, MOP, Group Home, Fat Joe, or whoever else Primo was lacing so it's disrespectful to him to pass of MOT as "sounding like everything else" because that is far from the truth.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 11:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
101. "RE: I couldn't disagree more"
In response to Reply # 98
Sun Feb-26-12 11:20 AM by bentagain

  

          

and you could have left it at that

but since you didn't

I'll explain it like this

I have all of their albums, including the compilations

and I was collecting music when they were released

HTE is THE GANGSTARR album

when I want to hear GANGSTARR, I put HTE on

and MOT would be the 4th album I would consider listening to when I'm in a GANGSTARR mood

HTE resonates track for track

the 2nd half of MOT, specifically after MOT...not so much

"You Know My Steez wasn't fresh?
Royalty wasn't fresh?
Above The Clouds wasn't fresh?
the fact they worked with artists outside the camp and made it work wasn't fresh?"

was cuttin up a Method Man line for the chorus fresh in 98', No it wasn't

was gettin Jodeci to sing your hook fresh in 98', No it wasn't

was gettin a Wu MC to cameo on your track fresh in 98', No it wasn't

the work they were doin outside of Gangstarr was fresh to me and that's why I felt like coming back together to put out MOT felt forced








---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 11:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
102. "RE: I couldn't disagree more"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

>and you could have left it at that
>

I could have but this is a music discussion board so I didn't.

>but since you didn't
>
>I'll explain it like this
>
>I have all of their albums, including the compilations
>
>and I was collecting music when they were released
>

Inbox me your address and I'll send you a cookie.

>HTE is THE GANGSTARR album
>

TO YOU.

>when I want to hear GANGSTARR, I put HTE on
>

Read that sentence again and imagine someone else saying that but switching MOT for HTE. very possible huh?


>and MOT would be the 4th album I would consider listening to
>when I'm in a GANGSTARR mood
>

Like I told my boy Claw, that has a lot to do with preference. We are usually more tied to albums we grew up with which is why people on here are saying things like "you must not have been old enough to remember HTE" which is fine in theory but all that proves is that if you were a certain age when an album dropped then it is most likely closer to you sentimentally. People still aren't breaking down the actually quality of the music and are basing their opinions off of sentimental reasons.


>HTE resonates track for track
>

AGAIN, WITH YOU. I LOVE Hard To Earn but to me, from track to track, the production, the mixing, the scratching, the lyrics are not as good as Moment of Truth.


>the 2nd half of MOT, specifically after MOT...not so much
>

Some of the best joints are on the second half. NY Strait Talk, My Advice to You, Make Them Pay, Scandalous, In Memory Of and since you stopped at the title track, throw in The Militia as well.



>was cuttin up a Method Man line for the chorus fresh in 98',
>No it wasn't
>

It was on that track because is sounded dope and that specific cut wasn't used yet.


>was gettin Jodeci to sing your hook fresh in 98', No it
>wasn't
>

It was for Gang Starr because they never went that route before and it also was for K-Ci and JoJo because they were always featured on more R&B sounding Hip-Hop production where as Royalty was still grimy Gang Starr.


>was gettin a Wu MC to cameo on your track fresh in 98', No it
>wasn't
>

It was for Gang Starr because they went outside of their camp and correct me if I'm wrong, this was Deck's first outside appearance which would then be followed by Tres Leches and Tru Master. People usually wanted Meth for the guest spots and then ODB or Raekwon. This came right after that Triumph verse and fit perfectly and it was nice to see them grab Deck as opposed to a different member.

So you see how these things can be looked at very differently? At the end of the day, the albums' quality shouldn't be based on if you feel something is fresh because of A, B, or C. Upon listening is the album dope as fuck? Or are you really telling me you listened to Above The Clouds and say "this would be dope if Deck wasn't on it? Because that's what you just faulted that track for which is bat shit insane if you ask me.

>the work they were doin outside of Gangstarr was fresh to me
>and that's why I felt like coming back together to put out MOT
>felt forced

*smh*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 12:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
105. "Mass Appeal: the Best of Gang Starr"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 12:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
107. "and?"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

what's your point?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
unohoo
Charter member
15278 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 11:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
115. "Re: Jodeci"
In response to Reply # 102


          

I'll go ahead and say it, but Royalty was not really that great to me. And as played out and juvenile as it sounds now, back then I might have copped to saying Gang Starr sold out using them cats to lace their hook.

Royalty eventually grew on me, but I felt like the song tried to pander to both sides of the fence (commercial/underground) without really hitting the mark.

When I think about the MoT album and the songs that stand out, songs like Work, You Know My Steez, and The Militia come to mind. Royalty just doesn't rank high in my book.

--------------------

blah blah blah

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15257 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 02:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
133. "it's definitely funny to me how the old guard reacted to hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

ESPECIALLY in New York. I mean there were so many rules and regulations I feel like it would have been stressful being a hip-hop listener. Was it this post someone said they bought Hard to Earn and Lethal Injection the same day and ended up taking Lethal Injection back to the store?! Why not keep it, that album is very, very good?


Just as a random example, if I were listening to We Got It 4 Cheap Vol. 2 complaining to myself about rapping over old RZA, Premier, Havoc and Timbaland beats saying "is that what's really hot in 2005?" man I would just quit. It's WAY more important to me how much fun I'm having listening to something than whether it's "hot" or "fresh" or whatever. I couldn't give ANY fucks if Method Man was cut up as a chorus at ANY point in hip-hop history; he's got a lot of dope one liners and a legendary delivery. In fact, maybe every hook should be a Method Man scratch. A lot of rappers could use 'em.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 02:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
134. "it wasn't so much rules and regulations "
In response to Reply # 133
Mon Feb-27-12 02:59 PM by bentagain

  

          

as it was the formula for success becoming defined

in that time period 94-98' there were classic hip-hop albums

and they sold records

there was definitely some similarities in the songs that crossed over

and some of the older heads took notice and started to incorporate that into their sound

I'm not saying those songs weren't hot, I'm a fan

I'm saying it didn't stand out as much from everything else on the market at that time

I mean Deck's verse on MOT might be the hottest verse on the album

and Royalty is a good example

the other post about DWYCK being a club banger

yes, of course it was

but I don't think that was the intention of the record

after the success of DWYCK

it felt like Royalty was made with the intention of playing in the club, i.e. forced








---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 02:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
135. "Deck or Krumb"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          


>I mean Deck's verse on MOT might be the hottest verse on the
>album
>
>
>
>
>
>

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16562 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 10:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
99. "RE: Moment of Truth >>> No More Mr Nice Guy"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

That's pretty much my order too but I'd give daily operation a slight edge over step in the arena for personal reasons.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 11:02 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
100. "my ranking"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

Daily Op
H2E
Ownerz/MOT

I usually don't include the 1st 2 cause they're so sonically different. (imo).

Like nobody talks about Juvenile Hell when folks talk Mobb Deep.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Bombastic
Charter member
88872 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 01:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
108. "I could see putting No More Mr Nice Guy into Juvenille Hell territory"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

although 'Words That I Manifest' was more of an iconic single than anything on Juvenille Hell.

However Step Into The Arena was the foundation they'd end up building off, sonically different from Premier's 'trademark' sound of the mid-to-late 90s but still setting the tone for what was to come.

>Daily Op
>H2E
>Ownerz/MOT
>
>I usually don't include the 1st 2 cause they're so sonically
>different. (imo).
>
>Like nobody talks about Juvenile Hell when folks talk Mobb
>Deep.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Austin
Charter member
9418 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 01:13 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
125. "RE: This is very revisionist:"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

>
>There wasn't much anticipation for MOT
>

I mean, that's just not true.

~Austin

Please donate.
For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE
For Cris: http://bit.ly/whuzky

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus

http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 01:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
126. "The time frame of 94-98' consisted of more than enough material"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

from both guys

all the production work Premo was doing in that time

and all of the work, albums and features that Guru was doing

there was more than enough music on the market with a Gang Starr ingredient in it

that same time frame had some of the best albums Hip-Hop has seen



---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 01:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
127. "Dude"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

No matter what, when a legendary group goes on a hiatus and announces an album after a 4 year break...there is going to be anticipation.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 01:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
128. "a legendary group goes on a hiatus "
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

and that's what I'm saying

they didn't go anywhere

if anything, they were more prevelant

look up the albums in that time period

Premo has production credits on ALOT of them

and Guru was putting out his own albums

Gang Starr fans had more than enough material

the way I remember it, it was more of a surprise

based off the assumption that both cats had become bigger outside of the group



---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 01:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
130. "But they didn't have Gang Starr material"
In response to Reply # 128
Mon Feb-27-12 02:08 PM by Anonymous

  

          

Come on my man.

Puba went on a hiatus from BN and they both put out music but it was still anticipated to see Puba back in the group.

Outkast is on a hiatus and Big Boi released an album and mix tapes and Dre hops on remixes yet it is still anticipated to see another Kast album.

Edit...mix tapes...damn this iPad!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Austin
Charter member
9418 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 02:04 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
131. "RE: But that's all work **outside** the group."
In response to Reply # 128
Mon Feb-27-12 02:08 PM by Austin

  

          

If you were a fan of them, then yes, there was quite a bit of related works to hold you over, but that was their longest ever gap between proper albums.

I mean, are we just counting everything Premier produced as a Gang Starr record now?

~Austin

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Calico
Charter member
24604 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 12:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
103. "so it really all boils down to which album resonated with you more"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i understand the argument for any album being better than the other, just cause honestly, when i dropped you felt everything that was done/said on the album and that hasn't been downgraded today...

i was listening to HTE yesterday as i went for a lil jog and i could see why people would pick it as GS' best...even though i'd still pick MOT.....i don't need to diss your opinion to validate mine.... in retrospect GS has a fantastic body of work....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 12:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
104. "I fully agree"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

Gang Starr has 3 great great albums to me and 2 very good albums and then 1 that is like demo material.

I can understand people listing either Daily Operation, Hard To Earn, or Moment of Truth as their favorite.

but for the sake of discussion I am will to say Moment of Truth is their best quality from start to finish.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
haji rana pinya
Charter member
53604 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 03:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
111. "true... daily op is actually my favorite "
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

possibly followed by step into the arena

then hard to earn


*********************
www.dumhi.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ChuckFoPrez
Charter member
47859 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 04:34 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
114. "a lot of idiots are doing it in this post, but i can't agree more"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

>.i don't need to diss your opinion to
>validate mine.... in retrospect GS has a fantastic body of
>work.

https://twitter.com/chuck4prez

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Just Jeffy
Member since Jan 15th 2012
43 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 12:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
106. "Pick which album you have. I just love me some D.J. Premier. One sexy ma..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I like the thing they did with Jadakiss the best. That was the first one I heard so I played it a lot. I think I'll go and listen to the other things now because of this post. Thanks to you.

Hey hi this is Jeffy again. I hope you love me like I want to make you move in this boot-boot. I'll be great, trust me!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

haji rana pinya
Charter member
53604 posts
Sun Feb-26-12 02:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
109. "Hard To Earn "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*********************
www.dumhi.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15257 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 12:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
116. "hard to earn but just barely; moment of truth got slightly better songs"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Feb-27-12 12:10 AM by Nodima

  

          

even. I just get a slightly more ME vibe off Hard to Earn.

1. Moment of Truth: 8.78
2. Hard to Earn: 8.73
3. Step in the Arena: 8.23
4. Daily Operation: 8.11

All three records are pretty damn equal on the songs alone, I just connected more strongly with one. I think Moment of Truth is a slighty more polished album and that does carry weight with me but, if I had to pick one, I'd recommend Hard to Earn to someone first.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

chillinCHiEF
Charter member
39872 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 01:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
118. "Moment of Truth"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

To be fair, Moment of Truth was my first Gang Starr albums and one of the first albums I copped period. I also got it when it came out, which makes a difference I think.

I was 10 when Hard to Earn came out and didn't hear it in its entirety until 2008.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

spew120
Member since Oct 02nd 2005
4026 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 03:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
136. "Daily Operation has my favorite songs."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132061 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 03:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
137. "now I can definitely feel that"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

even though "Dwyck" was officially stamped onto HARD TO EARN, I consider it part of DAILY OPERATION's collection of songs (the cassette copy I have actually has it included).

Besides that, "Take It Personal", "Soliloquy Of Chaos", "The Illest Brother", "The Place Where We Dwell"... I mean, that record had way too many ill cuts.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Anonymous
Charter member
23141 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 03:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
138. "I really go back and forth with DO and HTE "
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

Both are great records.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16562 posts
Sat May-26-12 10:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
140. "RE: I really go back and forth with DO and HTE "
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

those are my top two Gang Starr albums

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
spew120
Member since Oct 02nd 2005
4026 posts
Mon Feb-27-12 03:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
139. "I'm sayin..."
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

Take it Personal is my favorite Gangstarr track

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

bang97XXX
Charter member
1149 posts
Mon May-28-12 01:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
141. "the intro to HARD TO EARN..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

followed by "alongwaytogo" is some of the coldest hip hop ever recorded...i've been listening to gangstarr for over 20 years, and i can safely say this is my favorite gangstarr track EVER....MOT was a beast, but it had too many tracks...hard to earn all day!!

THE JUSTUS LEAGUE (of Extrodinary Gentlemen)
9th-Cesar-EAF-Boog-Yorel-Tay-Pooh-Chaundon
Leg-Eccentric-Big Dho-Burv-Khrysis-Flash-Median

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

PCProductions
Member since Oct 31st 2009
1217 posts
Mon May-28-12 01:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
143. "Moment of Truth and it ain't even close"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Aged wayyyy better. Hard to Earn sounds dated. Moment of Truth is a clinic on making a rap album. Primo's finest hour.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Zarathuckya
Charter member
2360 posts
Tue May-29-12 04:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
145. "Hard to Earn was one of my first CDs"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue May-29-12 04:14 PM by Zarathuckya

  

          

I got Hard to Earn and The Sun Rises in The East on CD and Illmatic on tape, all on the same day at a music shop's closing down sale, everything was half price. I was late to the sale and most of the hip hop section was already cleared out. Thankfully they'd left a couple good ones for me. And from that point onward I've been a hip hop freak

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Ezzsential
Charter member
11085 posts
Tue May-29-12 04:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
146. "red"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Id rather sojourn into self till I reached the epitome of spiritual splendor
Haters fender bender beat down and ostracize the dreamer
But its more than dreams when the inner light is revealed through the cracks of faade-strum the emotions on guitars~ste

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

howisya
Member since Nov 09th 2002
39976 posts
Wed Jan-30-13 11:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
147. "tight"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Funkymusic
Member since Sep 19th 2008
1559 posts
Thu Jan-31-13 01:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
149. "RE: tight"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

Thats what he said. i mean she said.

signature pose.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Wendell
Charter member
8207 posts
Thu Jan-31-13 12:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
148. "Moment"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Mainly because Betrayal. Face and Guru put it down on that track. Above the Clouds is also a favorite.

Peace

Wendell

Peace

Wendell

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
18068 posts
Thu Jan-31-13 08:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
152. "and you niggas need to stop that 'Deck wrote Guru's verse' shit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in fact Deck said he followed Guru's lead on that song and that his verse was written before he got to the studio

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

rjc27
Charter member
14602 posts
Thu Jan-31-13 10:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
153. "Moment Of Truth is all-time hip-hop top 10 for me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16562 posts
Thu Jan-31-13 11:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
154. "I'll still take Hard To Earn and Daily Operation over Moment of Truth"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

OutKast, Gang Starr, UGK, Mobb Deep and Eightball & MJG

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

handle
Charter member
18715 posts
Thu Jan-31-13 01:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
155. "I don't really like MOT for some reason"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Maybe it's because the "formula" is used on EVERY track.

The beats are good, the rhymes are good, but it's just not the album I go to when I want to lsiten to Gangstarr.

I was playing HTE last night in the car.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

howisya
Member since Nov 09th 2002
39976 posts
Fri Feb-01-13 01:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
156. "argue all day about who's the best emcees"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby The Lesson topic #2666266 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com