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Subject: "songs that are disarmingly vulnerable & emotionally honest..." Previous topic | Next topic
david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
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Sat Feb-18-12 01:22 PM

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"songs that are disarmingly vulnerable & emotionally honest..."


  

          

i made a thread a few months ago about the best original r&b ballads of the 90's.
i inducted men at large's so alone and i have been re-visited the last few days.
this song is really really special to me.
it's not the most tender or emotional song as far as the notes and keys that are played and sung.
it easily could have content-wise gone in a "baby i love you" or a "please take me back baby" direction over the one it took,
but they opted to make a song vaguely about losing friendship.
not explicitly or necessarily about death - just having a friend that's no longer around.
and it's just so vulnerable it's disarming.
r&b in the 90's generally was so female/love/freakin-off oriented that i think we forgot that there are other directions that songwriting can go when being matched to music that still have emotional weight.
and in this song's particular case, very heavy emotional weight.
it reminds me in some ways of drs "gangsta lean" meets gc camerons "its so hard..." albeit it's not as good a song as the latter, but emotionally it plucks similar strings if you're willing to commit to it.
this song is just so disarmingly vulnerable that it makes me cry maybe because it reminds me so much of the early 90's i dunno but i'm not even thinking about anyone i know that's died or i'm not friends with in particular - just the sentiment.
and imo, that is the ultimate purpose of songwriting/music.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
it's funny how you mention
Feb 18th 2012
1
RE: it's funny how you mention
Feb 18th 2012
2
      I haven't heard this is in ... probably the 20 years since it was releas...
Feb 18th 2012
3
           RE: I haven't heard this is in ... probably the 20 years since it was re...
Feb 18th 2012
4
jagged edge - let's get married is another song that fits the bill imo
Feb 18th 2012
5
RE: jagged edge - let's get married is another song that fits the bill i...
Feb 18th 2012
22
bullshit.
Feb 18th 2012
28
      lol....anyone who got married cuz of Jagged Edge...
Feb 19th 2012
31
Keystone - If it Aint Love....
Feb 18th 2012
6
bon iver's blindsided hit me like that.
Feb 18th 2012
7
you know thinking about it, this is basically how gospel music works...
Feb 18th 2012
8
big up to my older sister.. lol
Feb 18th 2012
11
yeah, that's why I look side-eye at negro neo-atheists
Feb 18th 2012
15
I agree.
Feb 18th 2012
27
Whitney nailed it w/'I Love the Lord'.
Feb 18th 2012
23
      Yolanda killed it.
Feb 18th 2012
26
I'm sure I'll get clowned, but...
Feb 18th 2012
9
I'll buy WAS
Feb 18th 2012
10
      you're right...
Feb 18th 2012
14
also, I feel this way a lot about Cameo's ballads
Feb 18th 2012
12
Murs - The Pain
Feb 18th 2012
13
Brother Ali's Picket Fence, Rain Water, and Walking Away
Feb 18th 2012
16
Picket Fence was the first thing I thought of
Feb 18th 2012
17
John Lennon's 'Jealous Guy' fits the bill imo
Feb 18th 2012
18
RE: John Lennon's entire first album does, in fact.
Feb 18th 2012
24
this song is 100% real, honest, and emotionally captures a moment
Feb 18th 2012
19
max b - baby i wonder
Feb 18th 2012
20
'Angel', Aretha Franklin.
Feb 18th 2012
21
Green Eyes
Feb 18th 2012
25
Street spirit-Radiohead
Feb 19th 2012
29
All apologies - Nirvana
Feb 19th 2012
30
R.kelly "Religous Love" and Trade in My Life.
Feb 19th 2012
32
Wildflower - Ghostface
Feb 19th 2012
33
Me'Shell - Fool of Me
Feb 20th 2012
34
What I came to post.
Feb 20th 2012
43
MJ - Stranger in Moscow
Feb 20th 2012
35
Sly and the Family Stone - Runnin Away
Feb 20th 2012
36
Fiona Apple - Fast as You Can
Feb 20th 2012
37
Saul Williams - Black Stacey
Feb 20th 2012
38
Red House Painters - Medicine Bottle
Feb 20th 2012
39
Katy Song for me, good god
Feb 20th 2012
41
Whitney "Saving all my love" for sure
Feb 20th 2012
40
That song I think really 'made' her
Feb 20th 2012
42

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Sat Feb-18-12 01:32 PM

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1. "it's funny how you mention"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Feb-18-12 01:33 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

DRS. How they dressed up a rather melancholy song about the death of loved ones in '90s flannel gangsta rap-isms, that it almost seems parody...seems still bizarre today.

The song underneath is undeniably weighty. I ran that and the Juelz Santana song that sampled it a few times the other night... I don't think I've heard a song like "Gangsta Lean" ever since.

  

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david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
4467 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 01:33 PM

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2. "RE: it's funny how you mention"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

>DRS and how they dressed up a rather melancholy song about
>the death of loved ones in '90s flannel gangsta rap-isms, that
>it almost seems parody... but the song underneath is
>undeniably weighty. I ran that and the Juelz Santana song that
>sampled it a few times the other night... I don't think I've
>heard a song like "Gangsta Lean" ever seat

so alone is like the same song as "gangsta lean" without any of that.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
131738 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 01:36 PM

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3. "I haven't heard this is in ... probably the 20 years since it was releas..."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

and you're right about this. man.

  

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david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
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Sat Feb-18-12 01:43 PM

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4. "RE: I haven't heard this is in ... probably the 20 years since it was re..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>and you're right about this. man.

like just having the balls to say in a song, "i miss you, i'm so alone right now" to a friend is just devastatingly honest to me.
it's disarming.
i think in the 90's r&b got so caught up in the front of baby this baby that and slow jams that doing something in such a vulnerable direction got lost.
and considering music is entirely emotion/energy oriented - it cheats the listener of other musical experiences that relate to other emotions and energies we all experience at some point.

  

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david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
4467 posts
Sat Feb-18-12 01:48 PM

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5. "jagged edge - let's get married is another song that fits the bill imo"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

was it a huge hit? - yes.
but was it about a subject matter that is so scarcely touched on in contemporary r&b it is almost bordering on taboo? yes.
like even if the weight this song holds isn't very heavy to YOU.
even if it isn't very emotionally honest it overwhelms YOU.
i think the fact they had the balls to make a song like this in the late 90's/early 00's was a vulnerable move and refreshing.

  

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jimaveli
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Sat Feb-18-12 08:49 PM

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22. "RE: jagged edge - let's get married is another song that fits the bill i..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>was it a huge hit? - yes.
>but was it about a subject matter that is so scarcely touched
>on in contemporary r&b it is almost bordering on taboo? yes.
>like even if the weight this song holds isn't very heavy to
>YOU.
>even if it isn't very emotionally honest it overwhelms YOU.
>i think the fact they had the balls to make a song like this
>in the late 90's/early 00's was a vulnerable move and
>refreshing.

I'm DQ'd on this, because me and my mama had jokes on the 'we ain't getting no younger' part. It was like 'I'm taking this showcase, Bob. It don't have a new car, but I ain't getting no younger!'.

Otherwise, yeah...JE did their thing with the verses in general.

Jimaveli

  

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Calico
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Sat Feb-18-12 11:18 PM

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28. "bullshit."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

...ain't nothin vulnerable bout that song....it's a wack song that got alotta people to get married b4 they were ready listen to them lyrics....

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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Dstl1
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Sun Feb-19-12 12:59 AM

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31. "lol....anyone who got married cuz of Jagged Edge..."
In response to Reply # 28


          

has more serious problems in their life.

Okay player...so you can type whatever you wanna type, but I still write better than anybody you like - Torae

  

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Dstl1
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Sat Feb-18-12 02:04 PM

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6. "Keystone - If it Aint Love...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

this used to be my joint, man...I swear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxm-PUxHQ8Y

Okay player...so you can type whatever you wanna type, but I still write better than anybody you like - Torae

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Sat Feb-18-12 02:05 PM

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7. "bon iver's blindsided hit me like that."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Feb-18-12 02:05 PM by Nodima

  

          

man's crouched outside an old flame's window, trying to see if she's sleeping with somebody else. he's suspected it for some time but has blinded himself to it, and he wishes she'd have just let him know rather than hide it from him. his suspicions are confirmed and he still feels blindsided and overcome with emotion, turning and sprinting toward a nearby beach wondering why she isn't chasing after him to make him feel better. staring at the moon, he concludes that he will never have children because he'll never figure out how to love another woman like he loves her, and is overwhelmed with the reality their lives together are over.


but it sounds so pretty, though.



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

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david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
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Sat Feb-18-12 02:13 PM

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8. "you know thinking about it, this is basically how gospel music works..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Feb-18-12 02:23 PM by david bammer

  

          

just the vulnerability and emotional honesty.
not necessarily, god or religion.
although that is what usually gets credit.
but the emotional sentiment is so powerful it overwhelms and disarms you.
songs about putting yourself in a position where you are not the most important thing in this world.
surviving hardships through the power and grace of something greater than you.
paying tribute to something greater than yourself through love & happiness & positivity.
that is basically what every marvin sapp or donald lawrence or any other contemporary gospel acts song is about.

  

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david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
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Sat Feb-18-12 02:27 PM

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11. "big up to my older sister.. lol"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-UAP_LMpqc

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Sat Feb-18-12 02:33 PM

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15. "yeah, that's why I look side-eye at negro neo-atheists"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

who diss gospel music.

Like, I can dig that you don't feel Christian religious dogma in general... but if you can't put that aside and recognize that black gospel exudes a raw emotional and spiritual power that transcends belief in any particular faith... Well, that's just throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I think.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Sat Feb-18-12 10:55 PM

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27. "I agree. "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

  

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SoWhat
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Sat Feb-18-12 08:52 PM

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23. "Whitney nailed it w/'I Love the Lord'."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

her version overwhelmed me b/c before this i'd only heard slow, mournful, dirge-like takes on the song rendered by the congregation at my family's Baptist church in rural Alabama. i barely knew the lyrics b/c they always draaaaag out all the words until they're nearly moaning and chanting. it's nice in it's own way. but i didn't know what a triumph lay in this song until i heard this version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcjP4LgW0Rw

and then Yolanda Adams bowled me over singing it last night in tribute to Whitney. it was too much. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WbZIjG_3sE

i'm not a Christian anymore, but i still love Gospel. i tend to favor the 'traditional' stuff like this. the songs i heard in churches and on road trips w/my family when i was a kid. it's what i miss most about church. i still want to find a Black church w/a large, tight choir and band that i can attend. and leave right before the sermons.

fuck you.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
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Sat Feb-18-12 10:54 PM

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26. "Yolanda killed it. "
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>her version overwhelmed me b/c before this i'd only heard
>slow, mournful, dirge-like takes on the song rendered by the
>congregation at my family's Baptist church in rural Alabama.
>i barely knew the lyrics b/c they always draaaaag out all the
>words until they're nearly moaning and chanting. it's nice in
>it's own way. but i didn't know what a triumph lay in this
>song until i heard this version.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcjP4LgW0Rw
>
>and then Yolanda Adams bowled me over singing it last night in
>tribute to Whitney. it was too much. lol
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WbZIjG_3sE
>
>i'm not a Christian anymore, but i still love Gospel. i tend
>to favor the 'traditional' stuff like this. the songs i heard
>in churches and on road trips w/my family when i was a kid.
>it's what i miss most about church. i still want to find a
>Black church w/a large, tight choir and band that i can
>attend. and leave right before the sermons.

  

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Dstl1
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9. "I'm sure I'll get clowned, but..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Coldplay - "Warning Sign"....shit, also "The Scientist". Chris Martin is a helluva songwriter, IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEDkZ02pmWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqWLpTKBFcU&ob=av2e

Okay player...so you can type whatever you wanna type, but I still write better than anybody you like - Torae

  

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Nodima
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Sat Feb-18-12 02:26 PM

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10. "I'll buy WAS"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

X&Y had a joint or two but it's been all downhill from there words-wise

at least it feels like it has.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

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Dstl1
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14. "you're right..."
In response to Reply # 10


          

I'll go with that completely. Viva la Vida was wack as shit, save for like 3 songs.

Okay player...so you can type whatever you wanna type, but I still write better than anybody you like - Torae

  

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Dr Claw
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Sat Feb-18-12 02:30 PM

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12. "also, I feel this way a lot about Cameo's ballads"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

esp. in the years when Tony Lockett was still in the band.

it was weird, for a funk band, to be so wacky on one hand, to be so street on another, but lay it bare for the down-tempo numbers. that's what forever gave them real cred to me. they would sing on subjects you would not normally hear in a very personal way...

  

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Playa_Politician
Member since Jul 29th 2006
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Sat Feb-18-12 02:30 PM

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13. "Murs - The Pain"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9k0RIaJrdS8

--sig--
n/a

  

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Hitokiri
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Sat Feb-18-12 03:47 PM

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16. "Brother Ali's Picket Fence, Rain Water, and Walking Away"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Feb-18-12 03:58 PM by Hitokiri

  

          

It's amazing how Ali tells his life through his songs... in some ways these songs are sequels. You can see his growth as a person... the evolution of his personal relationships and... life.


Picket Fence
http://youtu.be/xUuiDXI5OYI

Rain Water
http://youtu.be/cgJQJesMs9s

Walking Away
http://youtu.be/kT0uHleQ7-w

Edit:
I guess I should throw this song, Faheem, in there too. Listen in order, if you're unfamiliar

Faheem
http://youtu.be/OXIOS5dq0pM

--
"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

"There is only one god and his name is death. And there is only one thing we say to death: not today."

  

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amplifya7
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Sat Feb-18-12 04:47 PM

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17. "Picket Fence was the first thing I thought of "
In response to Reply # 16


          

when reading the thread title

Bandcamp/IG/FB/Twitter: @hecticzeniths

  

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denny
Member since Apr 11th 2008
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Sat Feb-18-12 05:00 PM

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18. "John Lennon's 'Jealous Guy' fits the bill imo"
In response to Reply # 0


          

n/m

  

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Austin
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Sat Feb-18-12 09:28 PM

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24. "RE: John Lennon's entire first album does, in fact."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

~Austin

Please donate.
For Anthony: http://bit.ly/xIIjaE
For Cris: http://bit.ly/whuzky

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com

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http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus

  

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judono
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Sat Feb-18-12 05:56 PM

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19. "this song is 100% real, honest, and emotionally captures a moment"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Http://snd.sc/xUSFKf

Recorded off the top of the dome too. Lo fi as a muthafukka too

* * * * =========
* * * * =========
* * * * =========
==============
==============

  

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blakegriffin32
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Sat Feb-18-12 08:40 PM

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20. "max b - baby i wonder"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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SoWhat
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Sat Feb-18-12 08:42 PM

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21. "'Angel', Aretha Franklin."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewKyeKdxGCY

fuck you.

  

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DolphinTeef
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Sat Feb-18-12 10:49 PM

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25. "Green Eyes"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Lil Rabies
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Sun Feb-19-12 12:54 AM

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29. "Street spirit-Radiohead"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A draining effort.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

  

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Lil Rabies
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30. "All apologies - Nirvana"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Whew, a lot on his chest there, methinks.

Taking shots in the dark/that's a bad call
Going straight for your head/ gotta saw it off

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Sun Feb-19-12 01:00 AM

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32. "R.kelly "Religous Love" and Trade in My Life."
In response to Reply # 0


          

fit the bill IMO. two very deep personal reflective songs.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Zarathuckya
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33. "Wildflower - Ghostface "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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shygurl
Member since Oct 08th 2002
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Mon Feb-20-12 12:19 AM

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34. "Me'Shell - Fool of Me"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I honestly can't even listen to it anymore cause it makes me feel too uncomfortable, it's too raw for me.

__________________________________________

I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.

— F. Scott Fitzgerald

  

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BSharp
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9243 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 08:14 AM

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43. "What I came to post."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10018 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 12:37 AM

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35. "MJ - Stranger in Moscow"
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If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10018 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 12:38 AM

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36. "Sly and the Family Stone - Runnin Away"
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This song is basically Sly realizing what he's doing to himself in a moment of clarity. Knowing that your going down the wrong road and feeling powerless to change your coarse is a very real and overwhelming feeling.

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If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10018 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 12:39 AM

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37. "Fiona Apple - Fast as You Can"
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If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10018 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 12:39 AM

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38. "Saul Williams - Black Stacey"
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If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10018 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 12:39 AM

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39. "Red House Painters - Medicine Bottle"
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If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
14866 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 12:45 AM

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41. "Katy Song for me, good god"
In response to Reply # 39
Mon Feb-20-12 12:46 AM by Nodima

  

          

Another Song for a Blue Guitar, too.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51981 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 12:42 AM

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40. "Whitney "Saving all my love" for sure"
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And seeing her smile when she sang it makes it hit even harder if you really get caught up in the character of it.

It's basically saying "I'm settling for being the side chick...and I'm cool with it. And I know it's ONLY gonna equate to one night. But instead of just fucking with no strings attached...I'm gonna put it ALL out there. Fuck any other guys out there who actually wanna take me serious, I'm saving ALLLL my luh.....for YOU!!!"

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50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
131738 posts
Mon Feb-20-12 07:58 AM

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42. "That song I think really 'made' her"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>It's basically saying "I'm settling for being the side
>chick...and I'm cool with it. And I know it's ONLY gonna
>equate to one night. But instead of just fucking with no
>strings attached...I'm gonna put it ALL out there. Fuck any
>other guys out there who actually wanna take me serious, I'm
>saving ALLLL my luh.....for YOU!!!"

I think it was Bomb who mentioned how wild it was that she brought a song about being the side chick (and lest you gloss over the lyrics, the video basically made the point crystal clear -- and was it intentional that the man of the video bore a slight resemblance to Jermaine Jackson?) and made it a pop hit and one of her signature songs.

  

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