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Subject: "If you don't like Gangsta rap, you don't like hip hop?" Previous topic | Next topic
Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
5966 posts
Fri Dec-09-11 11:53 PM

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"If you don't like Gangsta rap, you don't like hip hop?"


  

          

I'm really sick of hearing that and you know as well as i that statement is complete bullshit. This post was inspired by a thread that was written a couple days ago http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2634932&mesg_id=2634932&listing_type=search

I think the person who wrote the post was arguing that nothing truly positive ever came out of gangsta rap. Though I dissagree with that line of thinking, other posters kept insinuating that he didn't really like rap, which is what I basically had a problem with. People were acting as if gangster rap is/was the bread & butter of hip hop, even though hip hop was here a whole decade and a half before it was even thought of.

It's true that for the most part Gangsta rap was hip hop's "cash cow" in the early 90's, but niggas just gave it WAY too much credit.

1)If gangster rap didn't exist, hip hop would still be here, though maybe on a lesser scale.
2)There are too many other sub-genres in hip hop for a statement like that to be made.



╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Also: if you like Morrissey, you're homosexual.
Dec 10th 2011
1
Sure
Dec 10th 2011
2
      RE: Sorry.
Dec 10th 2011
3
           It's cool, I see were you were going with it
Dec 10th 2011
4
I think what they were getting at is that
Dec 10th 2011
5
lol @ "the best"
Dec 11th 2011
11
      I MEAN HUGE LOL
Dec 11th 2011
14
      It hasn't been?
Dec 11th 2011
33
           lol thats all you can think of? LOL
Dec 11th 2011
37
                Oh no of course not
Dec 11th 2011
40
                     I am aware that there is some uneveness
Dec 12th 2011
48
The OP in that thread has said he doesn't like hip hop
Dec 10th 2011
6
he didnt say that
Dec 10th 2011
7
He just said it wasn't his favorite genre
Dec 11th 2011
8
Well, now that we know Hip Hop heads agree with him, now what?
Dec 11th 2011
9
when did I say that?
Dec 11th 2011
12
That notion is bullshit. Plain and simple.
Dec 11th 2011
10
How can you not like Nas, Wu Tang, and Mobb Deep?
Dec 11th 2011
13
thats the thing
Dec 11th 2011
15
      I always like this revisionist history
Dec 11th 2011
18
      !?!!
Dec 11th 2011
21
           I see you trying to compartamentalize the argument
Dec 11th 2011
26
           good grief you seem to not know how to read
Dec 11th 2011
31
                You can't really be this dense
Dec 11th 2011
35
                     ohh my head
Dec 11th 2011
36
           lol @ Mobb Deep not being 'gangster rap'
Dec 11th 2011
38
                nah, i love that shit fam
Dec 11th 2011
43
                     all good & Streetz Iz A Mutha is indeed great
Dec 11th 2011
45
      If the Mobb wasn't nihilist, idk what is
Dec 11th 2011
19
      very true
Dec 11th 2011
22
      Do you even know what I mean by gangsta?
Dec 11th 2011
20
           i think you meant to reply to K_Orr
Dec 11th 2011
23
           Yeah I meant that for K_Orr
Dec 11th 2011
25
           so you don't like the nihilism and lack of silver lining of Mobb Deep
Dec 11th 2011
27
                basically.
Dec 11th 2011
34
                RE: so you don't like the nihilism and lack of silver lining of Mobb Dee...
Dec 11th 2011
39
                     Wow
Dec 11th 2011
44
                     I listen to quite a bit of stuff
Dec 12th 2011
50
                     Respect.
Dec 11th 2011
46
                          lulz at bad taste being "respectable."
Dec 12th 2011
52
                               Thats subjective
Dec 12th 2011
53
                                    no.
Dec 12th 2011
54
                                         Foh
Dec 12th 2011
55
If you don't like indie acid jazz step...
Dec 11th 2011
16
I hate those distinctions. One can argue that there's
Dec 11th 2011
17
Yeah, but who are we kidding?
Dec 11th 2011
24
People are being silly in this thread...
Dec 11th 2011
28
my man
Dec 11th 2011
32
I swear some ppl think Street/hood automatically = Gangsta
Dec 12th 2011
49
RE: People are being silly in this thread...
Dec 11th 2011
41
If you don't like gangsta rap, you don't like Funk
Dec 11th 2011
29
That's a stupid thing to say too though...
Dec 11th 2011
30
Thats also not true at ALL
Dec 11th 2011
42
Can you explain? Because that just sounds straight dumb.
Dec 11th 2011
47
seriously?
Dec 12th 2011
51

Austin
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Sat Dec-10-11 12:07 AM

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1. "RE: Also: if you like Morrissey, you're homosexual."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

**filed under: "Things people say when they can't handle a well-articulated opinion"**

**hates "gangsta" rap**

**loves Public Enemy**

~Austin

os·ti·na·to
/ˌästəˈnädō/
noun
a continually repeated musical phrase or rhythm

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
5966 posts
Sat Dec-10-11 12:14 AM

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2. "Sure"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

But with that said, I've never been much of a P.E. fan either.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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Austin
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Sat Dec-10-11 12:27 AM

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3. "RE: Sorry."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Was just trying to think of the most "HIP HOP" thing.

I guess PE epitomizes it all for me because that's what came first to me.

Feel free to replace that with whatever you feel is the best representative hip hop person/group and its meaning will be conveyed a little better for you.

~Austin

os·ti·na·to
/ˌästəˈnädō/
noun
a continually repeated musical phrase or rhythm

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
5966 posts
Sat Dec-10-11 12:45 AM

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4. "It's cool, I see were you were going with it"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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cjr2221
Member since Sep 04th 2011
1790 posts
Sat Dec-10-11 09:39 AM

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5. "I think what they were getting at is that"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

most of the best Hip-Hop has been "gangsta", or at least not positive like the OP said he disliked "gangsta" rap for not being.



  

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Ashley Ayers
Member since Dec 12th 2009
12331 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 04:52 AM

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11. "lol @ "the best""
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 11:52 AM

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14. "I MEAN HUGE LOL"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

.

  

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cjr2221
Member since Sep 04th 2011
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Sun Dec-11-11 06:30 PM

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33. "It hasn't been?"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

Most of the best Hip-Hop has been about drugs/street-life/ghetto etc.

I didn't mean gangsta rap as purely west coast, most of the 90's boom bap stuff is in there to.

The only stuff outside of the realm, of note, is like the Soulquarians and Native Tongues.

Arrested Development.

How many classic "positive" Hip-Hop albums have there been?

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
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Sun Dec-11-11 09:09 PM

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37. "lol thats all you can think of? LOL"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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cjr2221
Member since Sep 04th 2011
1790 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 09:20 PM

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40. "Oh no of course not"
In response to Reply # 37
Sun Dec-11-11 09:21 PM by cjr2221

  

          

but I thought just mentioning a few would make you realize that the majority of Hip-Hop, especially the classics have been primarily "gangsta".

Illmatic, The Chronic, 36 Chambers, etc. none of those are shit I'd play in front of my mother.

If you can't concede that Hip-Hop severely lacks, "positive"/non-"gangsta", classics in its canon, then that's on you.

*edit*
Don't catch feelings.

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
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Mon Dec-12-11 12:23 AM

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48. "I am aware that there is some uneveness"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

but to act like you can't be a hip hop fan without being a fan of the artists you mention is just silly.

you mean to tell me that there is

no Binary Star
No Antipop
No Masta Ace
No Maspyke
No Quannum
No strange fruit
no Wordsworth
no Heiro
no encore
no Dilated
No Common
No Pharcyde
no Living Legends
no J5
No Insight
No Moe Pope
No Roots Manuva
No stones Throw
No One Be Lo
No Kool Keith
No Talib
No Supastion
No Bahamadia
No Diverse
No Co-Flow
No Zion I....in your collection?

Dude, I can go on for days, so don't tempt me. These are just a fraction of artists that have made some of my PERSONAL classics....OH I SEE...You're going by what others consider classics, not your own personal opinion. I think you should try finding your own favorites before you just start spouting out artists that other people may have listened to, however may not be "into".

Side Note: I'm not catching feelings and I apologize if I come off that way. Just wanted to prove a point.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Sat Dec-10-11 10:02 PM

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6. "The OP in that thread has said he doesn't like hip hop"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

So therefore, his opinion holds no weight on anything rap music related

I don't like country music, so I'm sure as shit not gonna try and comment on a subgenre of it,

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sat Dec-10-11 10:12 PM

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7. "he didnt say that"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

he said it's not his first choice of music. he goes to soul and rock first

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
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Sun Dec-11-11 12:45 AM

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8. "He just said it wasn't his favorite genre"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

I'm pretty sure that doesn't stop him from knowing his shit.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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Ashley Ayers
Member since Dec 12th 2009
12331 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 04:47 AM

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9. "Well, now that we know Hip Hop heads agree with him, now what?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Can't use that excuse as an evasion tool anymore.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 05:54 AM

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12. "when did I say that?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          



http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2634932&mesg_id=2634932&listing_type=search#2634983


>So therefore, his opinion holds no weight on anything rap
>music related
>
>I don't like country music, so I'm sure as shit not gonna try
>and comment on a subgenre of it,

  

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Ashley Ayers
Member since Dec 12th 2009
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Sun Dec-11-11 04:50 AM

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10. "That notion is bullshit. Plain and simple."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Especially when cats say "the best" music was gangsta rap. And who
decides what's "best" in the world of subjectivity? Foh.

  

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k_orr
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13. "How can you not like Nas, Wu Tang, and Mobb Deep?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Do we need to suss out what NWA brought to the table and how that got incorporated throughout the whole of the music - and how the best hip hop for the most part is about gangsta topics with a very decidely not 4 elements/fun/braggadocio rap outlook?

If you're the type of dude who only fucks with Tribe type raps and never Freeway, i look askance at you lames.

one
k. orr

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Sun Dec-11-11 11:58 AM

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15. "thats the thing"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

you and other heads CONFLATE the shit out of the term Gangsta rap. I do not think of Nas, Wu and Mobb as gangsta rap. they were street rappers. did they talk about using/selling drugs, getting in fights, shooting guns, calling women bitches and hoes? yes. But when i think of gangsta rap i think of a sound with that content tied to gang life, particularly in LA. also there is a strong remorseless nihilism in most gangster rap that is absolutely reprehensible, even if enjoyable.

ultimately all like all other "sub-genres" of rap Gangsta rap had its great, good and bad. but all this Gangsta rap is the best form of rap music, it was actually progressive, there was nothing wrong with it bullshit just needs to stop.

  

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k_orr
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18. "I always like this revisionist history"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Where people pretend that the east coast was on some roughneck shit prior to NWA.

>you and other heads CONFLATE the shit out of the term Gangsta
>rap. I do not think of Nas, Wu and Mobb as gangsta rap. they
>were street rappers. did they talk about using/selling drugs,
>getting in fights, shooting guns, calling women bitches and
>hoes? yes.

Prior to NWA, most of East Coast rap was on that heavy d tip. having fun, rapping just to rap, little bit of Farrakhan now and then, and dancing.

You had a few nibbles with KRS, Kool G. Rap, and Just Ice and Schooly D, but majority of rapping ass niggas wasn't on that shit until after NWA.

Were it not for g-rap, we'd still be on some "now that we found love" bs.

Maybe you're young and don't remember what hip hop was like prior to Cube n'nem, but I do. It was cool then, but post NWA, shit was infinitely better.

It's a bitter pill to take, but without the hoods, thugs, and G's coming through cats like Mos Def and De La would have never have been able to thrive.

one
k. orr

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Sun Dec-11-11 02:36 PM

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21. "!?!!"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

all that writing and you didn't even address what i wrote. there is A SOUND (Dre, Quick, DJ Pooh, Battlecat, even Muggs) that comes with gangsta rap, along with that content and image. I don't know of many people who group Nas, Mobb, Wu, Big, ect with gangsta rap. when i think of g-rap i think of NWA, Ice T, Cube, Above the Law, early Snoop, Dogg Pound, Quick, MC Eight, Bone, ect. there is / was similarities in the way East and West coast emcees talked about there respective hoods/projects, but there was also huge differences and calling everything that had thug, gangsta, drugs and guns references is a disservice to how diverse rap music really is.

as to the second point you made, you named a bunch of rappers who all made music around the same time: Ice T, Schooly D, BDP, Rakim, NWA, PE 86-91. Dre himself speaks to how much Bomb Squad and PE influenced him. So please explain who rap was infinitely better, solely because of NWA, when they all created at the same moment in time. The popular narrative is NWA changed shit, which they did, BUT when the post-golden era emcees are asked who are their primary influences, who always comes up? NWA? lol, how about Rakim and KRS One. revisionist, okay buddy.

  

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k_orr
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26. "I see you trying to compartamentalize the argument"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

>all that writing and you didn't even address what i wrote.
>there is A SOUND (Dre, Quick, DJ Pooh, Battlecat, even Muggs)
>that comes with gangsta rap, along with that content and
>image.

West coast funk is over.

West Coast G-Rap changed content the globe over, especially on the east coast.

West coast imagery change imagery the globe over. Cats that wasn't on the G-tip had to change up, see Big Daddy Kane.

>I don't know of many people who group Nas, Mobb, Wu,
>Big, ect with gangsta rap. when i think of g-rap i think of
>NWA, Ice T, Cube, Above the Law, early Snoop, Dogg Pound,
>Quick, MC Eight, Bone, ect. there is / was similarities in the
>way East and West coast emcees talked about there respective
>hoods/projects, but there was also huge differences and
>calling everything that had thug, gangsta, drugs and guns
>references is a disservice to how diverse rap music really
>is.

It's a false history that you're dealing with. Prior to NWA, those east coast dudes weren't on that shit, and would not have been on that shit.

You're not getting CREAM without Gangsta, Gangsta.

You're not getting any rap outside of NYC and LA w/o NWA.

Ain't nobody in ATL, Houston, New Orleans, Chicago, Memphis, et cetera getting signed without NWA and their brand of g-rap influencing the entire culture.

You can make little stylistic distinctions between EPMD using More Bounce and Battle Cat doing it, but when you take a view of the culture and understand the history of the culture - you can't not LOVE GANGSTA RAP.
>
>as to the second point you made, you named a bunch of rappers
>who all made music around the same time: Ice T, Schooly D,
>BDP, Rakim, NWA, PE 86-91. Dre himself speaks to how much Bomb
>Squad and PE influenced him. So please explain who rap was
>infinitely better, solely because of NWA, when they all
>created at the same moment in time.

Ice T is from LA, so I don't even know what you're trying to say here. And he's as gangsta as you get.

Too $hort was an influence and he's from the Bay, and he came ont to the national scene about the same time as NWA. As did 2 live. Neither were G's, but they also changed the course of hip hop culture. I digress.

If you look @ the albums and listen to the songs, BDP and Rakim had the imagery of hustlers, but weren't really on that gangsta shit. Same with Run DMC. Run DMC was looking like hoods as compared to the flamboyance and showmanship of Flash and Bam.

And to talka about BDP, after NWA, Krs-1 went in the opposite direction. But with gangstas out and about, he was able to both chronicle what happens when you follow that lifestyle as well as critique.

He went from my 9mm goes Bang to Love's Gonna Getcha.

None of that happens without NWA.

SOLEY BECAUSE OF NWA.

In terms of PE and the Bomb Squad, they had their moment in terms of content and production, but the culture shifted away from their militance and the production was essentially outlawed because of litigation.

Throught production, NWA/Dre brought back live instrumentation. They brought P-Funk back to prominence after chilling for a good 20 years.

The popular narrative is
>NWA changed shit, which they did, BUT when the post-golden era
>emcees are asked who are their primary influences, who always
>comes up? NWA? lol, how about Rakim and KRS One. revisionist,
>okay buddy.

Right, who's still saying that in 2011?

ASAP Rocky?
Maino?

foh.

one
k. orr

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 04:40 PM

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31. "good grief you seem to not know how to read"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

YOU JUST MADE MY POINT. you were talking about NWA's ohh so important influence. i named all the rappers who made music in their time period (86-91) who were just as influential. all of said rappers from that era speak of how they were vibing off what each other was doing but trying to create their own lane. you went and explained EXACTLY why it does not make sense to say NWA / Gangsta rap was the source of HIp Hop becoming "better". Too Short, Ice T, solo Cube, PE, KRS, Ra were all just as influential. how did that not make sense to you!?!!

all the post-golden era rappers, you know the period from roughly 92-98, before the enormous (and silly) mainstream vs. underground divide happens, found a balance. Snoop, DPG, Gang Starr, Wu, Nas, Pac, Biggie, Tupac most all of them talked the street/gangsta shit, the social critique, the celebration of the rap life and politics. very few were strictly on the NWA or PE side.

WE AGREE that how can one like hip hop and not like gangsta rap, but like the other styles of rap that survived and came about before and after, Gangsta rap has had its forgettable, stupid and real shitty parts.

and making distinctions is not compartmentalizing. if you feel comfortable saying the rappers we been name dropping are from the same rap history tree, i will just disagree with you. Wu made CREAM in direct response to the G-Funk that they felt had taken over what they felt was "real hip hop". so how you link them to NWA outside of SOME content similarities is beyond me.

and lol at you jumping to internet / music industry bubble bust rappers Maino and Asap Rocky in reference to post-golden era. these dudes are more likely to say Wu, UGK and Pac are influences than NWA, Ra, Short or PE. but you live in a rap world / hip hop culture were every thing exists in one nice linear bubble it seems

  

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k_orr
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Sun Dec-11-11 06:46 PM

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35. "You can't really be this dense"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

88-94 NWA/Dre/Snoop/Dogg Pound/CMW/Eazy E hip hop is over.
Nobody is trying to sound exactly like those guys.

I'll give you that no one is remaking "something to dance 2" in 2011.

That's certainly not what Abstract is talking about in the lead post.

He's talking about the general themes of gangsterism, misogyny, drug dealing, and street topics. You can read this thread and all the other ones he's written on this topic.

That being said, plenty of hip hop artists took West Coast G-Rap flows, lyrical content, imagery, and production techniques. (Weezy wouldn't be who he is w/o snoop, fuck whatchu heard)

Now if you're convinced that a dude rapping about making niggas back flip cause he hitting them with bullets is somehow different than bucking niggas down with 30 aught buckshot is really DIFFERENT...

I don't know what to tell you. That's just ludicrous and ludacris.

That's such a surface distinction, that if you're willing to make it, you're just trying to argue for arguments sake.

>YOU JUST MADE MY POINT. you were talking about NWA's ohh so
>important influence. i named all the rappers who made music in
>their time period (86-91) who were just as influential.

No you named people, and just like niggas before, you ain't explain their influence.

Nobody raps like KRS still. Shit's been over and dead. hell krs don't rap like krs.

The folks who rap like PE, are like 3 underground dudes.
People can't produce like the bomb squad anymore

But you don't hear Busta Rhymes claiming 5% when he rapping with Chris Brown. Rakim's content is kinda out the door. (his conversational style and tone though, a departure from the ll cool j/run dmc style changed hip hop and people still rap in the default Rakim style even today)

People still making records like 2 Live though.
And pimp shit is the foundation of a lot of dudes careers all over.

But what i'm saying is that if you were listening back then, most rappers were not on the rah rah, i'm hard, shoot a nigga up, fuck a bitch when I can, move some weight, until NWA dropped.

When they dropped, niggas in detroit, flint, sheboygan, memphis, new orleans, oklahoma city, phoenix, was like, "oh word, I can rap about that shit, gimme a mic". Suddenly you got a Charlotte's Most Wanted dropping a record from the mean streets of North Cackalackey.

When the chronic came out, cats was like, "oh I don't need to be looking through these dusty ass breaks, I can get uncle leon to use a bass for my song"... Production changes all over the country.

all of
>said rappers from that era speak of how they were vibing off
>what each other was doing but trying to create their own lane.

Fuck outta here with that vibing community shit.

Niggas bit. They bit HARD. Like MOP would even exist with NWA.

They changed up their steez to get paid. And if they didn't do it of their own accord, the record company forced them, or they signed new niggas to do just that.

That's what hip hop is and does. Despite you kumbuyah/4 element cats saying otherwise.

>you went and explained EXACTLY why it does not make sense to
>say NWA / Gangsta rap was the source of HIp Hop becoming
>"better". Too Short, Ice T, solo Cube, PE, KRS, Ra were all
>just as influential. how did that not make sense to you!?!!

No, they weren't.

It's like saying Joeski Love or Newcleus was as influential as Run DMC.

Much love to Joeski, but the answer is no.

Eminem is even bigger than Mc Hammer, but so far, not very influential. Same with the Beastie Boys.

There are plenty of hit songs and great artists that don't influence other artists to change up their steez.

Tribe - influential.
Chi Ali - not so much

Queen Latifah - influential.
Monie Love - not in the least.

Freestyle Fellowship - influential
Twista - nope.

>all the post-golden era rappers, you know the period from
>roughly 92-98, before the enormous (and silly) mainstream vs.
>underground divide happens,

You lumping in a lot of years and not taking into account all the other factors. Clear Channel. Death of major figures. Changes in sampling laws.

>found a balance. Snoop, DPG, Gang
>Starr, Wu, Nas, Pac, Biggie, Tupac most all of them talked the
>street/gangsta shit, the social critique, the celebration of
>the rap life and politics.

Please. By 94 that political shit was dead. Hell it was dead when Caine threw the conscious shit out his ride in Menace II Society.

And 94-96 - Wu, Nas, and Gangstarr were popular maybe in NYC. But Biggie and Pac were popular all over the country. Why? They were on that west coast sound and content.

And did Biggie get big?
Juicy and the One More Chance rmx.

The same way that Masta Ace jumped on the West Coast bandwagon by rmxing Jeep Ass Niguh.

We also hearing from Da Brat and JD in this era. All riding the g-funk wave.

We hearing from Bone, and eventually 3-6, making noise off the Eazy E affilation.

97-98 - Pac and Biggie out the picture, niggas like the Lox, DMX, and Puffy take over, and the R&Bization of hip hop starts.

03 drops, and suddenly a dude from Queens done ripped off a southern flow and style.

I could go on and on, but it sounds like you're reading from a text book and wasn't buying records, going to clubs and concerts at the time. Or you just don't have a critical ear. I dunno.

very few were strictly on the NWA
>or PE side.
>
>WE AGREE that how can one like hip hop and not like gangsta
>rap, but like the other styles of rap that survived and came
>about before and after, Gangsta rap has had its forgettable,
>stupid and real shitty parts.

Gangsta Rap, much like Rakim and Run DMC before them, infiltrated the very DNA of hip hop.

Other cats start little trends, like Snoop got everybody to start smoking weed on wax and Primo got the entire underground to chop, but few artists ever alter the very fabric of the genre.

Prior to SOC, hip hop was really a bragging rights/word flipping genre. And most of it wasn't about the words, but the beats and how hype they were. Peep the bpm's from those days.

Post SOC....shit changes. Beats slowed down, folks enunciating, people stopped dancing and doing dances, niggas got hard....

>and making distinctions is not compartmentalizing. if you feel
>comfortable saying the rappers we been name dropping are from
>the same rap history tree, i will just disagree with you. Wu
>made CREAM in direct response to the G-Funk that they felt had
>taken over what they felt was "real hip hop". so how you link
>them to NWA outside of SOME content similarities is beyond
>me.

Cash Rules Everything Around Me is a reaction the west coast/g-rap sound?

haha. The whole song is about loving material items and Raekwon's failure as a drug dealer.

If anything, NWA was anti-drug dealer, that's only if you listen to lyrics though.

>and lol at you jumping to internet / music industry bubble
>bust rappers Maino and Asap Rocky in reference to post-golden
>era. these dudes are more likely to say Wu, UGK and Pac are
>influences than NWA, Ra, Short or PE. smh.

You the one bringing up who current mc's are gonna say who influenced them.

>but you live in a rap
>world / hip hop culture were every thing exists in one nice
>linear bubble it seems

Naw, I gather data, analyze, and present a cogent argument.

That's the difference between me and everyone else in this thread.
I make a point and back it up. I can bring evidence to the table, not just vague feelings, incoherent and contradictory thoughts, and personal opinions.

one
k. orr

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 07:47 PM

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36. "ohh my head"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

the thing is you aint dumb, but you're so hell bent on proving your point, you don't even see where we're saying the same shit, or where you ARE NOT EVEN directly addressing what I'm talking about. maybe it's cause you're responding to Abstract and me, but wither way here i go

>He's talking about the general themes of gangsterism,
>misogyny, drug dealing, and street topics. You can read this
>thread and all the other ones he's written on this topic.
>
>That being said, plenty of hip hop artists took West Coast
>G-Rap flows, lyrical content, imagery, and production
>techniques. (Weezy wouldn't be who he is w/o snoop, fuck
>whatchu heard)
>
>Now if you're convinced that a dude rapping about making
>niggas back flip cause he hitting them with bullets is somehow
>different than bucking niggas down with 30 aught buckshot is
>really DIFFERENT...

didn't i say that you lout. that heads def took from them and Weezy is def one person who borrowed from NWA, but is he not also borrowing from Ra? wouldn't he say that himself?

>No you named people, and just like niggas before, you ain't
>explain their influence.
>
>Nobody raps like KRS still. Shit's been over and dead. hell
>krs don't rap like krs.

no shit cause people / artist change. please tell me if i've miss read your statements in the past, but haven't you said Mos was like the modern KRS at the turn of the 21st, he just never "capitalized on his talent". and i mean if you think KRS socio-political rap didn't influence everyone from Mos to Talib to Dead Prez to Immortal Technique to Co Flow, i mean why the fuck are we talking

>The folks who rap like PE, are like 3 underground dudes.
>People can't produce like the bomb squad anymore

didn't heads blend politics into their narratives? so in K_Orr's rap universe, no one speaks about social struggle or politics anymore? no one?

>But you don't hear Busta Rhymes claiming 5% when he rapping
>with Chris Brown.

uhhuh, and...


>But what i'm saying is that if you were listening back then,
>most rappers were not on the rah rah, i'm hard, shoot a nigga
>up, fuck a bitch when I can, move some weight, until NWA
>dropped.

gotcha, but that's not all that survived, unless we're talking about purely on the mainstream level.

>When they dropped, niggas in detroit, flint, sheboygan,
>memphis, new orleans, oklahoma city, phoenix, was like, "oh
>word, I can rap about that shit, gimme a mic". Suddenly you
>got a Charlotte's Most Wanted dropping a record from the mean
>streets of North Cackalackey.

and this was a good thing?


>Fuck outta here with that vibing community shit.
>
>Niggas bit. They bit HARD. Like MOP would even exist with
>NWA.

so Ice T, Chuck, Dre, Ra, Cube these dudes is lying when they are being interviewed about how they saw what the next man was doing and it inspired them to make their shit better, okay. who is talking about MOP?

>They changed up their steez to get paid. And if they didn't
>do it of their own accord, the record company forced them, or
>they signed new niggas to do just that.

so now we're talking about what the industry did with the image sound of gangsta rap and not what the artist themselves created, gotcha.

>That's what hip hop is and does. Despite you kumbuyah/4
>element cats saying otherwise.

yup, cause graf heads through out LA who i've built with were imagining all their stories about drug use, drug sells, fights, jail time, dead friends ect. cause their art doesn't reflect the gangsta shit as well as the positive shit. but in your world only the negative shit is the real shit it seems, and cats who came form those same neighborhoods who break danced or wrote graf were just frontin' and yelling lies throughout all their misguided purists stances that emerged in the late 90s and early aughts?

>>you went and explained EXACTLY why it does not make sense to
>>say NWA / Gangsta rap was the source of HIp Hop becoming
>>"better". Too Short, Ice T, solo Cube, PE, KRS, Ra were all
>>just as influential. how did that not make sense to you!?!!
>
>
>No, they weren't.
>
>It's like saying Joeski Love or Newcleus was as influential as
>Run DMC.
>
>Much love to Joeski, but the answer is no.
>
>Eminem is even bigger than Mc Hammer, but so far, not very
>influential. Same with the Beastie Boys.

it's interesting cause i agree with you on Em, which is strange being that he's been the most popular rapper of the past decade, maybe sans Jigga, but really not that influential. BUT REALLY look at who i named and looked at who you named to make you point. you just said Short, Ice T, Cube and PE were not influential. wow.

>>all the post-golden era rappers, you know the period from
>>roughly 92-98, before the enormous (and silly) mainstream
>vs.
>>underground divide happens,
>
>You lumping in a lot of years and not taking into account all
>the other factors. Clear Channel. Death of major figures.
>Changes in sampling laws.

i want to take them into account. and i wish as the lesson we'd be more invested it actually creating loose time period / eras when we see/seen rap change. im with you because that stuff is very important. but i think we're getting side-tracked here. you're making the point that solely G-rap made hip hop better, which is simply not true AND you seem to be saying it is the most important aspect of rap. and even if it is, ALL OF THAT WAS A GOOD THING?

>Please. By 94 that political shit was dead. Hell it was dead
>when Caine threw the conscious shit out his ride in Menace II
>Society.

this made me laugh, good symbolism/pop cult reference.

>And 94-96 - Wu, Nas, and Gangstarr were popular maybe in NYC.
>But Biggie and Pac were popular all over the country. Why?
>They were on that west coast sound and content.

Wu was only popular in NYC. WHAT! and i'm being revisionist.

>And did Biggie get big?
>Juicy and the One More Chance rmx.
>
>The same way that Masta Ace jumped on the West Coast bandwagon
>by rmxing Jeep Ass Niguh.

is this gangsta rap though?

>We also hearing from Da Brat and JD in this era. All riding
>the g-funk wave.

again is it gangsta rap though? influence is different than the music. what is and isn't gangsta rap? does it even matter?

>We hearing from Bone, and eventually 3-6, making noise off the
>Eazy E affilation.
>
>97-98 - Pac and Biggie out the picture, niggas like the Lox,
>DMX, and Puffy take over, and the R&Bization of hip hop
>starts.
>
>03 drops, and suddenly a dude from Queens done ripped off a
>southern flow and style.
>
>I could go on and on, but it sounds like you're reading from a
>text book and wasn't buying records, going to clubs and
>concerts at the time. Or you just don't have a critical ear.
>I dunno.

lol. but yet when i made that 1996 post about the year of transition you was like "i think you're right". cause hip hop changes on the mainstream and underground, but what are you saying here? seriously. wasn't that R&Bization just as much a product of the fun-n-bullshit rap of the early 80s as the long grasp of gangsta rap you just mentioned. why are you hell bent on making gangsta rap the most important part of rap history. doesn't that actually devalue how diverse an art form it can be


>Gangsta Rap, much like Rakim and Run DMC before them,
>infiltrated the very DNA of hip hop.
>
>Other cats start little trends, like Snoop got everybody to
>start smoking weed on wax and Primo got the entire underground
>to chop, but few artists ever alter the very fabric of the
>genre.
>
>Prior to SOC, hip hop was really a bragging rights/word
>flipping genre. And most of it wasn't about the words, but
>the beats and how hype they were. Peep the bpm's from those
>days.
>
>Post SOC....shit changes. Beats slowed down, folks
>enunciating, people stopped dancing and doing dances, niggas
>got hard....

so when dancing and dances came back with a vengeance in the aughts, was it the late70s/early80s NYC parks hip hop DNA that made that happen?

>>and making distinctions is not compartmentalizing. if you
>feel
>>comfortable saying the rappers we been name dropping are
>from
>>the same rap history tree, i will just disagree with you. Wu
>>made CREAM in direct response to the G-Funk that they felt
>had
>>taken over what they felt was "real hip hop". so how you
>link
>>them to NWA outside of SOME content similarities is beyond
>>me.
>
>Cash Rules Everything Around Me is a reaction the west
>coast/g-rap sound?
>
>haha. The whole song is about loving material items and
>Raekwon's failure as a drug dealer.
>
>If anything, NWA was anti-drug dealer, that's only if you
>listen to lyrics though.

so yet again, like i said above, gangsta rap influenced a whole lot of rap, but it was as much a sound as it was content, and influence doesn't just roll in one direction? which mean Wu can create a sound that was in response to the popular while speaking on the perils of street life and the material success that they found through rapping, but i guess in K_Orr's world Wu was doing the NWA.


>Naw, I gather data, analyze, and present a cogent argument.

you do, that's why i enjoy your voice in the lesson, but it doesn't mean you're correct, or im going to agree with ALL your points.

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
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Sun Dec-11-11 09:14 PM

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38. "lol @ Mobb Deep not being 'gangster rap' "
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

just say you don't like the west-coast brand of gangsta shit & be done with it.

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 10:07 PM

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43. "nah, i love that shit fam"
In response to Reply # 38
Sun Dec-11-11 10:09 PM by astralblak

  

          

first two NWA records, first 4 Cube solos, Chronic, Doggystyle, Dogg Food, Cypress Hill's first 3 records, sit Eazy's first solo. tracks from Mc Eight, Spice 1 ect ect. man i even talk about how Kurupt's These Streetz iz a Mutha is sleep on...

i don't know, maybe in my mind, being from the west, i just associate gangster rap with the loose affiliations / talk of Blood and Crips and the khakis, chucks and low-lows image. i always looked at the east coast heads as on some street shit, but not gangster...

BUT after this long ass (and pointless) conversation with K_Orr, i thought of my CD collection and remembered so much of the east coast street shit was tied to the mythos of Italian mafia/gangster shit, so how is it not gangster rap?

i'll take an L

  

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Bombastic
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Sun Dec-11-11 10:53 PM

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45. "all good & Streetz Iz A Mutha is indeed great"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>first two NWA records, first 4 Cube solos, Chronic,
>Doggystyle, Dogg Food, Cypress Hill's first 3 records, sit
>Eazy's first solo. tracks from Mc Eight, Spice 1 ect ect. man
>i even talk about how Kurupt's These Streetz iz a Mutha is
>sleep on...
>
>i don't know, maybe in my mind, being from the west, i just
>associate gangster rap with the loose affiliations / talk of
>Blood and Crips and the khakis, chucks and low-lows image. i
>always looked at the east coast heads as on some street shit,
>but not gangster...
>
>BUT after this long ass (and pointless) conversation with
>K_Orr, i thought of my CD collection and remembered so much of
>the east coast street shit was tied to the mythos of Italian
>mafia/gangster shit, so how is it not gangster rap?
>
>i'll take an L

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
29126 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 12:51 PM

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19. "If the Mobb wasn't nihilist, idk what is "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 02:38 PM

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22. "very true"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

but i still don't view them as gangster rappers.

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
5966 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 02:27 PM

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20. "Do you even know what I mean by gangsta?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Growing up, I couldn't get into most gangsta rap, not because of the street topics, but when gangsterism is the central theme to your music. I don't care for that and never have.

examples:

I love Group Home, street? Yes. Gangsta? Not exactly. They offered alot of optimism and positive outlook in their lyrics which is not very gangsta.

I never liked Bone Thugs much. Talented yeah. would I support it? no. At a certain point their lyrics started to grate my nerves as did much of the so called gangsta shit out there.

I don't listen to just Tribe, though Tip is a top 10 emcee for me. I just prefer the emcee to exhibit more than thugism and ghetto strife?
so if I'm lame to you, I'll be that.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
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Sun Dec-11-11 02:41 PM

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23. "i think you meant to reply to K_Orr"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

cause you and I are talking the same shit

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
5966 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 02:43 PM

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25. "Yeah I meant that for K_Orr"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

My apologies fam.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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k_orr
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Sun Dec-11-11 03:12 PM

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27. "so you don't like the nihilism and lack of silver lining of Mobb Deep"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

There's nothing at all positive about NY State of Mind.
Not much good shit in Suicidal Thoughts.
Pretty much all of Only Built for Cuban Linx is depressing from an objective pov.
And damn shame you can't listen to UGK.

>I love Group Home, street? Yes. Gangsta? Not exactly. They
>offered alot of optimism and positive outlook in their lyrics
>which is not very gangsta.

I imagine you're a big Tupac fan then?
If not, your argument is full of shit.

>I never liked Bone Thugs much. Talented yeah. would I support
>it? no. At a certain point their lyrics started to grate my
>nerves as did much of the so called gangsta shit out there.
>
>I don't listen to just Tribe, though Tip is a top 10 emcee for
>me. I just prefer the emcee to exhibit more than thugism and
>ghetto strife?

There's nothing wrong with a preference.

But if you go by your stated logic, you're excluding what most people agree is the very best that hip hop has to offer. That's cool, maybe you don't cut for a lot of classic shit. Lotta hip hop "heads" don't.

But if you really were to spell your shit out, and then look at the albums you own and listen to, you'd realize how fucked in the game you are.

one
k. orr

  

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cjr2221
Member since Sep 04th 2011
1790 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 06:32 PM

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34. "basically."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
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Sun Dec-11-11 09:19 PM

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39. "RE: so you don't like the nihilism and lack of silver lining of Mobb Dee..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

Well I don't own a single mobb deep album....nor do i care to. Same for Pac or most other largely "Nihilistic" artist, just not my cup of tea. I'm not denying anyone's talent and I know enough about their music to not be totally ignorant towards most of those hip hop artists, but I'm not gonna be fake and act like I care to buy their albums(or even Download them)and listen to them in my ipod.

..but in your eyes, my opinion doesn't carry any weight, cuz I don't know what I'm talking about. Right?

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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cjr2221
Member since Sep 04th 2011
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Sun Dec-11-11 10:23 PM

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44. "Wow"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

You should really check out Infamous/Hell on Earth, if you haven't heard them.

If you've heard them and didn't dig it. *shrug*

What do you listen to though as far as Hip-Hop, if you don't like "gangsta" stuff.

Outside of the obvious stuff like ATCQ/De la Soul/Common etc.

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
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Mon Dec-12-11 12:56 AM

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50. "I listen to quite a bit of stuff"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

To much to sit here and name. However, I do go into it a little bit in one of the above posts.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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Ashley Ayers
Member since Dec 12th 2009
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Sun Dec-11-11 11:09 PM

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46. "Respect."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

  

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Guinness
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Mon Dec-12-11 07:53 AM

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52. "lulz at bad taste being "respectable.""
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
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Mon Dec-12-11 11:51 AM

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53. "Thats subjective"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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Guinness
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Mon Dec-12-11 11:59 AM

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54. "no."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
5966 posts
Mon Dec-12-11 12:23 PM

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55. "Foh"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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BSharp
Charter member
9210 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 12:18 PM

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16. "If you don't like indie acid jazz step..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...you don't like neo-prog emo grunge & bass.

  

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L.E.S.
Member since Oct 18th 2006
5070 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 12:30 PM

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17. "I hate those distinctions. One can argue that there's"
In response to Reply # 0


          

no such thing as "Gangsta Rap"

It's all Hip-Hop.

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
5966 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 02:41 PM

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24. "Yeah, but who are we kidding?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

Things are different and people like different things.

In that case, all foods are the same as long as it keeps you from starving. How dare anyone try choose not to eat a certain food. Its all food.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9762 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 03:26 PM

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28. "People are being silly in this thread..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

...by trying to pigeonhole gangsta-rap as some west-coast specific sound when in reality most New York stuff people dig is (almost) just as negative and nihilistic. I don't like west-coast G-rap too much either. At the same time, one of my favourite mcs ever is prime-era Redman. What did he do in his lyrics? He smoked weed, he fucked people up, he called women bitches etc. He did it in a skillful and funny way but still, it's negative. Trying to make a distinction between him and Eazy-E, Snoop etc. based on content alone just doesn't work; anyone with a functional brain can see this...

Needless to say, the same applies to Wu-tang, Mobb Deep, Jay-Z, Nas, Biggie, Big L, MOP, BCC, Beatnuts, the Clipse and a shitload of other holy cows.

Saying that I don't like Gangsta rap based on its content while at the same time digging the shit out of these groups is hypocritical to say the least.

Meanwhile, if you would remove all that type of ''negative'' stuff from my Hip-Hop collection, there would honestly not be enough quality stuff left for me to be able to say that I'm a *genre* fan; a couple of Native Tongues, Public Enemy, freestyle fellowship/project blowed and old school records and some random other shit is what would remain more or less...

  

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astralblak
Member since Apr 05th 2007
20029 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 04:46 PM

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32. "my man"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

why is it silly to make distinctions. they clearly aren't all making the same type of rap music. Redman is a gangsta rapper now? who disagrees that he rapped some negative shit? but smoking weed, calling women bithces and fucking fools up is gangsta? young men at the local sorority house at your college campus do that shit. i mean Kendrick Lamar talks about gang life and calls women bitches, is he a gangster rapper?

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
5966 posts
Mon Dec-12-11 12:30 AM

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49. "I swear some ppl think Street/hood automatically = Gangsta"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

by default.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
5966 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 09:26 PM

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41. "RE: People are being silly in this thread..."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>...by trying to pigeonhole gangsta-rap as some west-coast
>specific sound when in reality most New York stuff people dig
>is (almost) just as negative and nihilistic. I don't like
>west-coast G-rap too much either. At the same time, one of my
>favourite mcs ever is prime-era Redman. What did he do in his
>lyrics? He smoked weed, he fucked people up, he called women
>bitches etc. He did it in a skillful and funny way but still,
>it's negative. Trying to make a distinction between him and
>Eazy-E, Snoop etc. based on content alone just doesn't work;
>anyone with a functional brain can see this...

I agree. I wasn't being Coast specific.


> a couple of Native Tongues, Public Enemy,
>freestyle fellowship/project blowed and old school records and
>some random other shit is what would remain more or less...

I feel sorry for you, if this is all you would have left. Just sad.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
29126 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 03:42 PM

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29. " If you don't like gangsta rap, you don't like Funk "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9762 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 04:14 PM

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30. "That's a stupid thing to say too though..."
In response to Reply # 29
Sun Dec-11-11 04:14 PM by Jakob Hellberg

          

By saying that, you are pretty much limiting funk to late P-funk and Zapp/roger type of stuff. There was a shitload of non-gangsta artists who sampled Jmes Brown, Sly, the Meters etc. and that's funk too, right?

I remember when OldPro said that he felt the Neptunes were funkier than Marley Marl and it's like the latter based his career on straight vintage funk loops and yet he wasn't funkier than some dudes who knocked out beats on their keyboards. Basically, I often feel the west-coast contingnet have a very purist definition of funk that doesn't extend much beyond the early 80's-late 70's (think Flashlight, Atomic Dog, More bounce etc.) electro-type funk

  

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Abstract_TheEclectic_Nubian
Member since Sep 07th 2002
5966 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 09:47 PM

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42. "Thats also not true at ALL"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

I love 80's funk music, but west coast g-funk? Nah.

╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮





www.last.fm/user/Tha_Abstract

  

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Ashley Ayers
Member since Dec 12th 2009
12331 posts
Sun Dec-11-11 11:10 PM

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47. "Can you explain? Because that just sounds straight dumb."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Mon Dec-12-11 03:38 AM

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51. "seriously?"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

you are going to have to elaborate.
b/c that doesn't make sense.

  

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