criteria: original.
no samples.
not even drums.
no "re-interpretations" of melodies or lyrics from the past.
criteria #2: people actually know the song and it made some sort of an impact nationally.

not trying to define or rank anything...
but what is the best original r&b ballad of the 1990's?

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

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not a ballad and it "interpolates" roger.

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i haven't even heard or thought about the og since like 1997...

you're right.

re-qualified. lol.
my bad.

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but yeah... wasn't thinking straight on that one.

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shout out to the midnight mix.

maybe this one doesn't qualify now that i think about it.

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there is definitely a difference between a slow jam and a ballad.
usually tempo/subject matter.

janet anytime imo falls under slow jam status.
same with a lot of jodeci and something super-popular like nice & slow by usher or nobody by keith sweat.
those are slow jams.

>


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i mean i heard the record 15 million times,
never at a funeral yet tho (lol)
imo it was silly even in 1993 or 1994 too.

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One Way feat Al Hudson
So Afraid It's Over
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmuq2ttuxpw

I didn't realize how funny this song and video is..I guess I was too young back then

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

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personally feelings about this song aside, it has to be included.

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you never heard this song anywhere despite how huge it was in 96...

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strong contention for the top 10 if we were willing to dabble in such pointless ventures.

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1989 lp release, sure...
still a early 90's record imo.

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this would have to be #1 or #2 if we were ranking...

hate this record, but if fly is included it has to be too...

hate this record too.

i'll leave that other overplayed record they were on for somebody else to induct...

didnt see this before i posted it.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

Spinners Love dont love nobody

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwMHymHFJh0

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Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

i didn't know that though.

There's clearly some "inspiration" there, but hell... inspiration is everywhere.

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yeah

yes

hey

yep

:^/

that isn't really a ballad imo.
it's a slow jam.
like r kelly seems like your ready/sex me are slow jams not ballads.
i guess when the subject matter becomes too sexual it deviates into slow jam status.

but i think we an all agree there is a clear difference between a 90's slow joint that people were freaking off to and a ballad.

When posting stuff like the R. Kelly & PA and BBD but I went ahead anyway because the slow jam kinda *was* the ballad for 90s R&B

Unless you want to definitively make the distinction...

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>When posting stuff like the R. Kelly & PA and BBD but I went
>ahead anyway because the slow jam kinda *was* the ballad for
>90s R&B
>
>Unless you want to definitively make the distinction...

i knew it was going to come up.
but i mean it's very apparent to me what qualifies and what doesn't although i made a mistake with that r kelly and public announcement induction.

something like guy - let's chill and early jodeci goes both ways (nh) because they were on the cutting edge of creating the 90's slow jam.
but something like keith sweat - nobody is definitely more sex jam than "ballad" even if it has ballad-ish properties.

like i said, the subject matter and explicit referrals to sex has a lot in defining the difference.

I see no reason why a ballad can't have explicit sexual content... but what I think really differentiates a ballad from a slow jam is the fact that the slow jam has less of an emphasis on melody and lyricism in general.

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ok well look at the songs that are indisputably 90's r&b ballads subject matter...

somethings going on
breaking my heart
come back to me
in my bed
unbreak my heart
don't let go
etc.

none of those are as a direct as something like "sex me", "nice and slow" or "nobody".
despite similarities like the key, scale, lead instruments, arrangement and tempo.
the subject matter of the songs i mentioned often tackles being rejected and relationship issues.
i think that is a clear characteristic difference between 90's slow jam and 90's ballad.
there are exceptions like early jodeci
but they are just barely toeing the line from being categorized as slow jams.

I mean, if you listen to something like "Unbreak My Heart" and compare it to, say, "T-Shirt and Panties" http://youtu.be/cYep2o2SOOU

The main difference is not really the subject matter per se... after all, Marvin, Teddy P and Barry White made steamy songs that were still credible ballads.

The 90s slow jam was really structurally the same as an uptempo hip-hop/R&B jam, just slowed down considerably.

I think this was well illustrated by the early-90s trend of releasing alternate uptempo and slow jam versions of the same song like "Keep It Coming"

http://youtu.be/jmlSxf5iRNs

http://youtu.be/OYVKUZs9W5c

or Another Bad Creation's "Iesha" (can't find the slow version of it on YouTube)

If you speed up "Unbreak My Heart," it doesn't really work the same way.

The slow jam, despite the slow tempo, usually retains a certain driving rhythm and "heaviness," particular in the drums (thus making it a "jam")... You can still kinda groove to it in the way that you can't to something like Mariah Carey's "Vision of Love" or Johnny Gill's "I'm Still Waiting." http://youtu.be/roRaMyqsDEs

I won't discount that the slow jam was very often more sexually explicit than most traditional ballads, but that's not always case, Keith Sweat's "Why Me" being a good example.*

*And it's worth noting that that song also had two versions.

http://youtu.be/S4F17ly1aeY
http://youtu.be/UMb3PFqW0yQ

The ballad just has more of a "dramatic" structure, with verse, chorus, bridge, modulation, etc. while the slow jam was usually more monotonous and less elevated in terms of melody.

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so is why me baby slow version a ballad or a slow jam in your opinion?

I mean, apart from the chorus, there's barely even any singing on it, with LL "slow rapping" the verses and Keith adding whiny melismatic color. It's definitely not a ballad but it IS a jam.

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>I mean, apart from the chorus, there's barely even any
>singing on it, with LL "slow rapping" the verses and Keith
>adding whiny melismatic color. It's definitely not a ballad
>but it IS a jam.

alright then i don't think we disagree on anything then.

Like I said, you do have a point about the subject matter... but it's a lot more than that too.

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>When posting stuff like the R. Kelly & PA and BBD but I went
>ahead anyway because the slow jam kinda *was* the ballad for
>90s R&B
>

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

does that OTHER song of hers "qualify"?

or what about THAT song by whitney from the same year...

are either of those even R&B? i say no.

and the Whitney song as well.

I'd say just for tonight is R&B. It has a flow to it not many pop songs do.

>and the Whitney song as well.

oh come on, don't give me that.
you know which 2 i'm talking about.
1992. you heard them a zillion times...

be comparing it to other songs (Vanessa's and Whitney's) to make a judgement call on it in that clumsy way.

You're doing that because "Just for tonight" is just as R&B as McKnight's "one last cry" or most of the other songs already posted.

So you have to bring up some 1992 songs I'm supposed to lump "Just for tonight" in with.

Sorry, dude. Nice try

uh no.
i was asking if vanessa and whitney's big 1992 ballads qualify because you brought her up and i was thinking about it.

i say neither qualify because they're not r&b.
i didn't say anything about the vanessa song you posted.

Yeah, "Save the best for last" ain't R&B

neither is "i will always love you" imo.
whitney's entire body of work is too "white" to qualify as R&B imo.

80's R&B ballad classic. She has more as well.

she can sing and she has some blacker material but clive always kept her on a pretty tight leash imo.

They did more midtempo stuff

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6YlmFxkoO0

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