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Subject: "How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become irrelevant?" Previous topic | Next topic
-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Sun Nov-06-11 09:53 PM

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"How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become irrelevant?"


  

          

Note...I'm one of those who rarely talks about folks "falling off" because I realize that times change n all...but this is really a talk on how the entire tag and prestige of "Superproducer" has changed.

Felt like from 98 or 99 and up to around 2006, 90% of all songs on the radio were produced by the same 10-15 hot producers at the time. Off the top of the head, these are some that seemed to own radio:

Just Blaze
Lil Jon
Scott Storch
Jazze Pha
Dr. Dre
Mr. Collipark
The Neptunes
Swizz Beatz
Trackmasters
Jermaine Dupri
The Runners
Cool and Dre
Mannie Fresh
Kanye West

Since then, things have changed a whole lot. Lex Luger and a few new cats are def running things, and you still hear from a lot of those producers I listed there...but as a whole, it's nothing close to how it was at that time, where it was more about the producer than anything else. They'd drop their tags on it and everything so that you knew they made it...they basically became celebs on their own. At this point, only a few of us even know what Bangladesh and Boi-1da look like, and casual fans may not even realize who they are. A lot of hit songs in the last few years were produced by the artist's camps vs a major known producer.

Is there anything on the business side that changed about it? Did folks just get tired of hearing everybody from every region on the same songs? Did their prices get too high for album budgets, especially since albums aren't selling nearly as much?

Or...am I completely wrong?

------------------------------

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Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
the bubble burst, basically
Nov 06th 2011
1
Yea and I mean that's why it's two sided
Nov 06th 2011
8
      I wonder if G-Unit/50 Cent played a part...
Nov 07th 2011
14
           nas
Nov 07th 2011
20
           What in the holy fuck are you talking about?
Nov 07th 2011
24
                LOL
Nov 07th 2011
36
           I think The Diplomats as well
Jan 11th 2013
95
you forgot dude who produced love in this club
Nov 06th 2011
2
RE: polow da don
Nov 06th 2011
3
right... "the greatest producer in the history of 2007".
Nov 06th 2011
4
LOL I was def gonna put him on too, just didn't
Nov 06th 2011
7
And Drumma Boy is one of the few still making hitters
Nov 07th 2011
16
remember some of the mid-00's indie rap "superproducers"? lol.
Nov 06th 2011
5
when the beats became hotter than the lyrics...
Nov 06th 2011
6
Beats have always been a bit more important on a mainstream level
Nov 06th 2011
9
      RE: Beats have always been a bit more important on a mainstream level
Nov 06th 2011
11
           lol, the producer gotta eat too
Nov 07th 2011
13
man, I'm pissed whenever there's no prod. by credit
Nov 07th 2011
19
RE: man, I'm pissed whenever there's no prod. by credit
Jan 10th 2013
90
sheeeeit, 9th and Oddisee still puttin out HEAT n/m
Nov 07th 2011
37
man, FOH
Nov 07th 2011
43
indie rap "superproducers"?
Nov 08th 2011
45
everyone you just named is still cracking though
Jan 10th 2013
63
Dr. Luke smiles down on us all from Mount Zion
Nov 06th 2011
10
^^ #truth
Nov 07th 2011
32
"Producers started making songs for $300" (c) Mannie Fresh
Nov 06th 2011
12
In a way though, it shows how overvalued they were
Nov 07th 2011
15
      were they overvalued?
Nov 07th 2011
18
      Good point, and it really depends on the song
Nov 07th 2011
23
      The beats were easily replicated, but the intricacies of production were...
Nov 07th 2011
35
Flylo and electric beat happened.
Nov 07th 2011
17
probably
Nov 07th 2011
21
RE: How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become ir...
Nov 07th 2011
22
I thought someone once said 'love in this club' was the end of
Nov 07th 2011
25
RI think we just retired the word"Superproducer" thank God
Nov 07th 2011
26
To Me It's Three Factors: Major Labels, Studios Closing, & Mixtape Album...
Nov 07th 2011
27
*Three months later* Damn, mixtapes REALLY killed them off
Feb 08th 2012
47
      This Is Why Jake One & Hi-Tek Don't Mess With 50Cent Much
Feb 09th 2012
54
this happened:
Nov 07th 2011
28
Well going off that list....
Nov 07th 2011
29
RE: How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become irrelevant?
Nov 07th 2011
30
Cause the money ran out...
Nov 07th 2011
31
RE: Cause the money ran out...
Nov 07th 2011
38
      microwave society
Jan 10th 2013
65
no more budgets.
Nov 07th 2011
33
^100% Correct^
Nov 07th 2011
34
Good point.
Nov 07th 2011
40
end post.
Jan 10th 2013
68
Where's the super audience? There isn't one.
Nov 07th 2011
39
Maybe just maybe.... they don't feel like it anymore
Nov 07th 2011
42
      I think if you enjoy doing something, you don't stop.
Nov 07th 2011
44
THE SUPERPRODUCER
Nov 07th 2011
41
king of the OONTZ
Nov 08th 2011
46
WHAT THE FUCK ABOUT SOLAR!?!
Feb 08th 2012
48
cause niggas can make beats in they bedrooms now.
Feb 08th 2012
49
^^^ABSOLUTELY THIS^^^^^
Feb 08th 2012
52
people always made beats in their bedrooms/basements lol
Jan 10th 2013
64
the record industry crashed
Feb 08th 2012
50
I think producers gave in to the necessary evil
Feb 08th 2012
51
whoever said any of those turkeys were super producers to begin with?
Feb 08th 2012
53
LMAO as always. BTW I put it in quotes
Feb 09th 2012
55
another sobering maxxx-im for life:
Feb 09th 2012
56
http://i.imgur.com/Y0kqy.gif
Jan 10th 2013
75
RE: How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become irrelevant?
Feb 14th 2012
57
Your Good Thing (Is About To End)
Jan 09th 2013
58
Superproducer Rodney Darkchild Jerkins doesn't know what you're talmbout
Jan 09th 2013
59
Well he was R&B, I was mainly referring to Rap or Rap + R&B ones
Jan 09th 2013
62
I guess this is the kinda stuff I missed by taking time off OKP
Jan 09th 2013
60
LOL @ this being upped. So...Lex Luger had a strong run in 2010,
Jan 09th 2013
61
RE: How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become irrelevant?
Jan 10th 2013
66
there used to be more effort into becoming a producer...
Jan 10th 2013
67
Looking back, I think these are some of the reasons I had stopped
Jan 10th 2013
69
      RE: Looking back, I think these are some of the reasons I had stopped
Jan 10th 2013
70
      So you're upset because it's not more difficult to make music?
Jan 10th 2013
72
           I wasn't gonna type a 5 pt essay on it, but it became too congested
Jan 10th 2013
76
           with work comes value...
Jan 10th 2013
77
                Yep, and the effect was HUGE. As 9th said, even the small time
Jan 10th 2013
80
                     RE: Yep, and the effect was HUGE. As 9th said, even the small time
Jan 10th 2013
82
                     ^^^ Man, I get into the mechanicals, back end pay tip..
Jan 10th 2013
89
Sounds like sour grapes
Jan 10th 2013
71
i didn't get that vibe. i know u ain't the troll type, so...*shrugs*
Jan 10th 2013
78
RE: i didn't get that vibe. i know u ain't the troll type, so...*shrugs...
Jan 10th 2013
86
      Attention from you? I'm good fam
Jan 11th 2013
93
           everything he said is true though...
Jan 11th 2013
104
RE: Sounds like sour grapes
Jan 10th 2013
83
      The new kids will be alright
Jan 11th 2013
92
           RE: The new kids will be alright
Jan 11th 2013
96
                bingo
Jan 11th 2013
98
                We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess
Jan 11th 2013
99
                     RE: We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess
Jan 11th 2013
100
interesting perspective coming from you....
Jan 10th 2013
73
      RE: interesting perspective coming from you....
Jan 10th 2013
74
      I didn't know when 9th started, was it at that 2000-2001 time?
Jan 10th 2013
79
      RE: I didn't know when 9th started, was it at that 2000-2001 time?
Jan 10th 2013
85
           It for sure did dilute the DJ'n game. I just feel that it's helped some ...
Jan 10th 2013
87
           RE: I didn't know when 9th started, was it at that 2000-2001 time?
Jan 11th 2013
91
      RE: interesting perspective coming from you....
Jan 10th 2013
84
      RE: interesting perspective coming from you....
Jan 10th 2013
88
      cmon man
Jan 11th 2013
101
           RE: cmon man
Jan 11th 2013
102
           its absolutely changed man lol
Jan 11th 2013
103
                i disagree
Jan 11th 2013
105
                     RE: i disagree
Jan 11th 2013
106
                          LOL
Jan 11th 2013
107
                               RE: LOL
Jan 11th 2013
108
                                    quite an epidemic.
Jan 11th 2013
109
                                         RE: quite an epidemic.
Jan 11th 2013
110
                                              truly a plague.
Jan 11th 2013
111
      ill tell u one thing 'everyone' isnt rushing out to do tho...play an..
Jan 12th 2013
114
           RE: ill tell u one thing 'everyone' isnt rushing out to do tho...play an...
Jan 13th 2013
116
                RE: programming some equip to sound like a guitar chord
Jan 13th 2013
117
                     RE: programming some equip to sound like a guitar chord
Jan 13th 2013
118
bookmark.
Jan 10th 2013
81
It became too easy to create hit records
Jan 11th 2013
94
See reply #96
Jan 11th 2013
97
RE: It became too easy to create hit records
Jan 13th 2013
119
Things became less eventful.
Jan 11th 2013
112
RE: How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become irrelevant?
Jan 11th 2013
113
RE: How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and b...
Jan 13th 2013
115
Production is the last part of rap music that isn't
Jan 13th 2013
120

Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10016 posts
Sun Nov-06-11 10:21 PM

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1. "the bubble burst, basically"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Nov-06-11 10:22 PM by Madvillain 626

  

          

once you knew you could get a hit from some 17 year old in Atlanta, you didn't need to give Ye or Rell a hundred Gs for a beat.

Now you might work with Ye for a verse and the attention that comes with it, but you don't need to go to the big names to get a hot beat anymore. Hell, everyone and their momma has a beat tape in 2011, since the whole brainfeeder/LET thing has blown up.

Plus...most of them cats fell the fuck off. LOL @ someone wanting a Scott Storch beat in 2011. the fuck.

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Sun Nov-06-11 11:06 PM

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8. "Yea and I mean that's why it's two sided"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

>Plus...most of them cats fell the fuck off. LOL @ someone
>wanting a Scott Storch beat in 2011. the fuck.

On one hand, it's just as you said with bedroom producers being able to make the saaame shit. But then when you listen to Scott Storch n them, you realize that their shits just sound super bland and plain now...Scott did that "Boom" shit for T-Pain and Snoop, and it's just like eh....in 06, I woulda LOVED this, but it sounds super extra average now

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10016 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 12:09 AM

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14. "I wonder if G-Unit/50 Cent played a part..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

they are the first major group as far as i can remember to cop beats from no name cats, in addition to getting stuff from producers that people wouldn't suspect like Hi-Tek

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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loveluv
Charter member
1038 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 02:58 AM

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20. "nas"
In response to Reply # 14


          

been doing started right after his first cd.

  

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AnonymousCoward
Member since Sep 17th 2002
15394 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 11:46 AM

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24. "What in the holy fuck are you talking about?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

http://clydefrazierapproves.com/
http://stylepoints.tumblr.com/

"Like 4 out of 5 things you say on OKP offend me." -FireBrand

  

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Calico
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Mon Nov-07-11 07:41 PM

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36. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

i was thinkin the same shit dude...

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 10:51 AM

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95. "I think The Diplomats as well"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

  

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david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
4467 posts
Sun Nov-06-11 10:41 PM

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2. "you forgot dude who produced love in this club"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

forget his name...
the white girl don or whatever from rich boy throw some d's.
bangladesh, drummaboy & mr toomp too.
add lex luger in about 4 more months.

i made this same post over a year ago.

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9232 posts
Sun Nov-06-11 10:43 PM

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3. "RE: polow da don"
In response to Reply # 2
Sun Nov-06-11 10:44 PM by mikediggz

  

          

gotta throw in timbo with that list too

  

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david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
4467 posts
Sun Nov-06-11 10:45 PM

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4. "right... "the greatest producer in the history of 2007"."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Sun Nov-06-11 11:05 PM

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7. "LOL I was def gonna put him on too, just didn't"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 12:23 AM

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16. "And Drumma Boy is one of the few still making hitters"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
4467 posts
Sun Nov-06-11 10:48 PM

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5. "remember some of the mid-00's indie rap "superproducers"? lol."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Nov-06-11 10:53 PM by david bammer

  

          

remember krysis and 9th wonder?
remember ILLMIND??? lol.
remember oddisee?

i guess "the lesson" is don't try to have a bigger spot on the marquee than the rapper/singer.

and rappers really got it fucked up with that whole (prod. by ___) trend.
so basically you're letting the producer sell the track for you?
lol. great way to build a career.

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
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Sun Nov-06-11 11:04 PM

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6. "when the beats became hotter than the lyrics..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

you had to sell yourself thru your production work. i mean even looking at the next crop of rappers being hyped in the lesson, with the exception of maybe krit and danny brown, none of these cats are lyrical beasts or even have a fresh persona. They got some hot ass beats tho. (The new ASAP Rocky tape is a perfect example)

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Sun Nov-06-11 11:17 PM

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9. "Beats have always been a bit more important on a mainstream level"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

But yeah, feels like a lot of folks we listen to are solely for production...especially cats like Wiz and even Dom to me.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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david bammer
Member since Jun 20th 2010
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Sun Nov-06-11 11:27 PM

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11. "RE: Beats have always been a bit more important on a mainstream level"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>But yeah, feels like a lot of folks we listen to are solely
>for production...especially cats like Wiz and even Dom to me.


it's not about the quality of the beat though.
i mean you listen to a track you're going to hear the beat one way or another. regardless of who produced it.

but putting (prod. by ___) on the file name or on the back of your damn album?

wtf type of backwards business is that for a rapper trying to make a career for himself?

  

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Madvillain 626
Member since Apr 25th 2006
10016 posts
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13. "lol, the producer gotta eat too"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

i think its necessary because the producer needs to get his name out there too, when it comes to rap the producer is basically a co-songwriter, and some listeners want to check out all the work a certain person has done, so someone who digs Clams Casino could discover ASAP that way.

that tactic wouldn't have made much sense in the past when only one producer handled all the cuts and he was usually on the album cover if not a part of the group

-------------------------------
If life is stupendous one cannot also demand that it should be easy. - Robert Musil

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
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Mon Nov-07-11 02:32 AM

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19. "man, I'm pissed whenever there's no prod. by credit"
In response to Reply # 5
Mon Nov-07-11 02:34 AM by Nodima

  

          

but I'm a hoarder and my iTunes is retardedly meticulous

like I know SOME kind of names are producing these Plies mixtapes I'm probably never going to listen to but the idiot won't TELL me

even more frustrating is the stuff with only partial credit, like the latest Starlito tape that only gave credit to Lil Keis and Celsizzle tracks but left some unmarked. WHY?! or when there's a mixtape with a ton of alright beats and then the two best ones on there are a total fucking mystery I REALLY want the answer to so I can either say "hey another great piece of sound from so and so" or "I haven't heard of that guy has he done anything else/should I watch for him"

the worst though is when an actual album comes out and nobody can remember where the beat's from. I remember that happened to like four tracks on OB4CL2.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

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charlie bucket
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Thu Jan-10-13 09:34 PM

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90. "RE: man, I'm pissed whenever there's no prod. by credit"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

>but I'm a hoarder and my iTunes is retardedly meticulous

i know what you mean. im not a hoarder (for the most part i delete songs i dont like. but i rate everything in iTunes, put the producer to the track in the composer field, and use the grouping field for record label or just other "tags" i like like female singer, handclaps, piano loop etc. which leads to some nice smart playlists. But not knowing the producer and having to track that down is a pain. especially if they arent big and arent on wiki or discos

  

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Calico
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Mon Nov-07-11 07:44 PM

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37. "sheeeeit, 9th and Oddisee still puttin out HEAT n/m"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

...

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
29872 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 08:58 PM

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43. "man, FOH "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


>remember oddisee?
>

_______________________________________________
"Ran through enough dope for Castro to build schools in Cuba. Teach ya kids how to read and write. And use the Ruger."

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Tue Nov-08-11 12:12 AM

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45. "indie rap "superproducers"?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

you hatin hard right now

  

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Von Pea
Member since Jul 07th 2002
23521 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 12:32 PM

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63. "everyone you just named is still cracking though"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

im not gonna go back and forth about it either, they just are.


http://www.flavors.me/vonpea

Von Pea & Aeon - "Things Have Changed"
https://soundcloud.com/vonpea/things-have-changed-produced

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
14176 posts
Sun Nov-06-11 11:20 PM

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10. "Dr. Luke smiles down on us all from Mount Zion"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

  

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CaptNish
Member since Mar 09th 2004
14464 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 05:28 PM

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32. "^^ #truth"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

.

_
http://www.yothatsmyjawn.com
http://soundcloud.com/nate-3-0
http://wickedawesomebookcovers.tumblr.com

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28262 posts
Sun Nov-06-11 11:50 PM

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12. ""Producers started making songs for $300" (c) Mannie Fresh"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That has to contribute to it some what.

The young dudes killed the superproducer according to Mannie Fresh.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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15. "In a way though, it shows how overvalued they were"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

I mean seriously....if a producer in his basement can make a beat on $500 or even free equipment that's literally IDENTICAL to what they were charging $100,000 for, it shows how damn overvalued they were. It's no way in hell that a random 21 year old at the local park, hell even at Rucker Park, would be good enough to take Kobe's spot if he said "you can only pay me $40,000 a year!!!"

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
2661 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 02:30 AM

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18. "were they overvalued?"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

the quality of production hasn't declined?
do you think the new records sound the same, better or worse than music made before this trend?

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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23. "Good point, and it really depends on the song"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

All the low budget Jerkin/Dougie "Ratchet" songs, nah production def isn't as solid and it's more about the simple pattern and hard hittin drums.

But these superproducers were milking the FUCK out of their sound, even worse than Babyface and Teddy Riley did in previous decades. Yeah vs Freek-a-Leek is best example, but all those producers mentioned did similar things, even with Diva vs A Milli which was recent.

But eh, I can't really say the overall quality of production declined, because most of the new acts we're into have great production..that's really the main reason we're into a lot of them.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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JFrost1117
Member since Aug 12th 2005
22785 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 07:21 PM

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35. "The beats were easily replicated, but the intricacies of production were..."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Lil Jon's most simple beats, and with some fucking around, Timbo's syncopation could be done in somebody's bedroom, but there's gotta be a small amount of bedroom beatmakers that are gonna put baby noises on a track confidently and on purpose. I think the lack of touch and personality that made the superproducers super is what was missing when things declined.

Lol, message boards and YouTube have/had niggas thinking shit was super easy.

____________
Twitter & IG: @rulerofmyself
SC: rulerofmyself17

Yes! She's on the drugs. (c) BoHagon

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 01:43 AM

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17. "Flylo and electric beat happened."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Niggas started rhyming over those style of beats, and once people realized that all it took was ableton and a couple of monomes......

game went space.

Digital audio workstations are a hell of a drug.

  

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loveluv
Charter member
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Mon Nov-07-11 03:32 AM

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21. "probably"
In response to Reply # 0


          

a combo of everything that has been mentioned.

plus like you said album sales died. if a performer wants to get cake he has to go on the road. i for one would be damned if i am going to go out and work hard miss my family and friends so i can pay a dude who has admitted he can does 5 beats a day, to sit at home.

producers need to do what edm producers do, also what mannie fresh said in the other post. they need to learn to dj. then they can hit the road and make good money djing parties. shit porn stars do it too, shoot the video (what they get a couple of grand for that) go out on tour stripping. even former presidents do it, leave office, start the speaking tours.

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 04:09 AM

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22. "RE: How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become ir..."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Nov-07-11 04:10 AM by murph71

          


Fruity Loops + Internet + young producers doing it for bargain basement prices = the end of the super producer as we know it...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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c71
Member since Jan 15th 2008
11146 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 12:00 PM

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25. "I thought someone once said 'love in this club' was the end of"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the trend of simplistic low-rent beats when I said in a reply to a post about new music that kids messing around with computer programs to create beats would be the new movement.

I guess I was right.

  

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__Spread__
Member since Sep 08th 2009
1268 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 12:21 PM

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26. "RI think we just retired the word"Superproducer" thank God"
In response to Reply # 0


          

If there were a such thing as superproducer it would be someone like Quincy Jones or George Clinton or Smokey Robinson, Burt Bacharach, etc...

how about Super Beat-makers?

~-~-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



http://slickshoes.bandcamp.com
http://thephilosophy.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/spread-1
http://soundcloud.com/spreaducation
http://twitter.com/Spready4DaWorld

  

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Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
13513 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 01:18 PM

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27. "To Me It's Three Factors: Major Labels, Studios Closing, & Mixtape Album..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

From what's been happening a lot lately is that major record labels have been seeing a decline on record sales so now they aren't willing to pay the money they use to pay so-called super producers for music that's not getting the same attention as before.

Studios have been closing up everywhere now that kats can make quality sounding music in there bedrooms and in small home studios, and a lot of the time most rappers are seeking small-time producers who got their own studio and can track their music and the rapper's vocals easily without it sounding amateurish and without paying money to do the same thing at some big name studio that most superproducers use to make rappers go to.

Also with everyone doing mixtape albums and it basically being an album of unreleased or rejected album songs, a lot of superproducers don't want those rappers to get a hold of their music, go thru the time to produce a song for them and it end up on a mixtape album they won't recieve a dime for; and if they do get the money upfront, they still won't see any points, residuals, & royalties from it though, so quite a few of them have been backing away from doing songs with some artists that are putting out tons of mixtape albums.


https://DjJoeyJoe.bandcamp.com/album/Emerald-Dust

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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47. "*Three months later* Damn, mixtapes REALLY killed them off"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

I know a lot of them were mad as hell that their tracks were only being used for mixtapes.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
13513 posts
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54. "This Is Why Jake One & Hi-Tek Don't Mess With 50Cent Much"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

They're are trying to make money they already got a name, there are a few other producers who aren't fucking with Fifty that much anymore cause he has been using them for songs that he don't plan on putting on his album but on his mix-cds & Shade45 airplay only.


https://DjJoeyJoe.bandcamp.com/album/Emerald-Dust

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

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Government Name
Member since Dec 16th 2005
23189 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 01:22 PM

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28. "this happened:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UFIYGkROII


and i dont think it's a bad thing

________
http://twitter.com/aehorton
http://instagram.com/aehorton

  

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phemom
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
4985 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 01:53 PM

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29. "Well going off that list...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Just Blaze: woke up one day and decided...I don't wanna work. Perhaps the new Ross & Drake records will make Just wanna work more, cause I REFUSE to believe artists aren't calling him. Jay Elec is a wild card...but he will prolly be on SlaughterHouse, XV & Mickey Factz' debut & the next Jada album. 2012 should be his year...if he wants it.

Lil Jon: Got fucked in the game, and went another route...I can't blame him. Wish he's work w/Ciara again tho..

Scott Storch: Is an idiot....I bet he still submits to albums tho. He'll be a part of another hit...cause he is diverse and dope. Still an idiot tho lol

Jazze Pha: I got a theory on him, once his album w/Cee-Lo didn't drop and Ciara walked away from him (which kinda happened at the same time)...I think he got depressed. Dude has barely been on much in the last 3 years (he had 1 on Asher Roth's debut) Still talented...maybe he just needs to find another talent to develop.

Dr. Dre: Is bullshittin straight up, if he don't drop nothing after bringing back Snoop,Kurupt & D.O.C. I'll be confused.

Mr. Collipark: was never a super producer...just the hot beatmaker of the moment. When it ended...he did too.

The Neptunes: Being a neptunes stan....their inablity to make hits for anyone anymore is confusing. P isn't making wack shit, but he's not getting singles either. After a slow 09 & 10 (where P tried to use his old sounds in new songs), I think this year proves they are still can do it...and there's some mainstream artists that could use some creative work from them (Nelly, Snoop again, LL?). They can still do it.

Swizz Beatz: Is the only hip-hop superproducer left...he still makes hits with most of the people he's with...except for himself lol. With Jay, Jada, T.I. and Alicia he'll prolly get some more hits next year...the question is can he save Eve & DMX?

Trackmasters: Fell the fuck because they didn't change with the times. I know they gotta be mad for giving up on Red Cafe too...
Jermaine Dupri: Is taking too long with Da Brat...since Mariah is working with him again he'll get another shot. But will he disappear again after making hits like he did after "Emancipation Of Mimi"?

The Runners: aren't really superproducers imo, but they still involved. I think most people can't tell the difference between them & the J.U.S.T.I.C.E. League...I'm sure they'll be making someone a hit next year. After "Cheers" for Rihanna, they should do some more R&B work imo

Cool and Dre: Always seem this close to something great then nothing happens. They gave Game a great track for RED that got ignored...still give Fat Joe good music too. They still submitting for major albums, so it's only a matter of time...but the greatness of "Hate It Or Love It" will prolly overshadow them the rest of their careers.

Mannie Fresh: Hopefully has taught producers a lesson: even if the business is fucked up...KEEP PUSHING MUSIC!!! Most people don't know about how Birdman was taking his money, they just figured he fell off...now he's been gone too long. Good luck trying to save Juvi & Mystikal...he might wanna submit something to T.I. or Big Krit ASAP.

Kanye West: "and I'm rapping on the beats they supposed to buy, guess I'm getting high on my own supply" sums it up. If you aren't an A-list rapper or fam (like Twista) you prolly aren't getting no Ye beats. If I was Ci Hi I would be following Ye wherever he is and grabbing beats. He seems like he's gonna be involved w/King Push's album...add hov's solo & the G.O.O.D. comp...everyone else is prolly getting scraps (good luck Ci Hi lol)

phemom's the name, all-star writer/
searching 4 journalistic fame, mindframe igniter....www.twitter.com/hayabusaage

  

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James Doe
Member since Aug 14th 2011
25 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 02:09 PM

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30. "RE: How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become irrelevant?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Superproducers are still around; it's definitely been minimized by the spread of DAWs and free mixtapes like others have said.

But they're still around... Stargate produced S Club 7 pop in the 2000s, moved on to Ne-Yo, Beyonce, Rihanna, then Wiz Khalifa. Definitely more present in pop than hip-hop, but hip-hop is moving that direction (Kanye and Katy Perry collabs)

_________________________________

The Beat Catalog
http://imjamesdoe.bandcamp.com/album/the-beat-catalog

twitter.com/imJamesDoe
imjamesdoe at gmail .com

  

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SP1200
Charter member
20097 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 03:51 PM

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31. "Cause the money ran out..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

same reason real actors are almost irrelevant and reality tv rules.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
1618 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 07:45 PM

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38. "RE: Cause the money ran out..."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Best answer in the post along with some of them were charging waaaaay too much for a damn beat. As Jeezy said...."The Recession"

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

  

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liveguy
Member since Jan 01st 2004
7982 posts
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65. "microwave society"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

the blessing and/or the curse depending on what side of the table one sits on.

We see through all that boo boo like it's ghost shit... (c) Quelle Chris

| http://liveguy.bandcamp.com |
| www.soundcloud.com/liveguy |
| www.twitter.com/liveguy |
| www.instagram.com/theREALliveguy |
| XBOX ONE GT: theREALliveguy |

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 06:05 PM

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33. "no more budgets."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people are overstating the democratizing element of digital production here. it's not a matter of artists "discovering" that decent beats can be had on the cheap -- they've been up to their ears in tracks from unknowns forever.

the appeal of paying a big name wasn't because they couldn't find good beats elsewhere: it was that a collaboration was both a co-sign and a way to generate buzz. but now, labels simply aren't putting that kind of money into production costs when they know they can't recoup it. for super-producers, it's a vicious circle. dudes won't pay their rates, they don't get placements, and their name dwindles.

  

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DolphinTeef
Member since Oct 25th 2009
7027 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 06:36 PM

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34. "^100% Correct^"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

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FireBrand
Charter member
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Mon Nov-07-11 08:15 PM

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40. "Good point."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
130749 posts
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68. "end post."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

that explains why a lot of "middle of the road" music in other genres has kind of fallen off as well but mainstream hip-hop was struck with a stake through the heart because of this.

  

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FireBrand
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145739 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 08:14 PM

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39. "Where's the super audience? There isn't one. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The niggas selling records today in "urban" genres got the weirdest mix of audience I've seen.

I'm not where the baseline is for that or how one producer could make a mountain of hits.

"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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J Fabuluz
Member since Jan 30th 2004
1004 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 08:55 PM

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42. "Maybe just maybe.... they don't feel like it anymore"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Think about it, what if YOU had tons of hits under your belt and millions in the bank and the generation that you blew up in has passed somewhat, at that point you can pick and choose things that excite you, but if nothing excites you then...

  

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FireBrand
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44. "I think if you enjoy doing something, you don't stop. "
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

So Guinesses point makes more sense.

A few platinum selling producers come to mind that still do it, but are working in niches now--even if one is still working with big-ger stars.

"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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loveluv
Charter member
1038 posts
Mon Nov-07-11 08:41 PM

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41. "THE SUPERPRODUCER "
In response to Reply # 0


          

DAVID GUETTA!

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Tue Nov-08-11 12:13 AM

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46. "king of the OONTZ"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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Loud but Wrong guy
Member since Dec 29th 2009
332 posts
Wed Feb-08-12 07:39 PM

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48. "WHAT THE FUCK ABOUT SOLAR!?!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

WHY AINT NOBODY MENTION HIM!??

THIS IS SOME BULLSHIT!

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
79756 posts
Wed Feb-08-12 08:23 PM

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49. "cause niggas can make beats in they bedrooms now."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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smooth va
Member since May 02nd 2005
6059 posts
Wed Feb-08-12 09:56 PM

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52. "^^^ABSOLUTELY THIS^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

And because of this fact, and the slow dissolution of the music industry in the past decade, cats can make a living being nationally unknown but locally respected and in-demand for their music.

"This is dedicated to whom it may concern."-Donny Hathaway

  

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Von Pea
Member since Jul 07th 2002
23521 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 12:33 PM

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64. "people always made beats in their bedrooms/basements lol"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

the "making beats in the studio" thing is for show.


http://www.flavors.me/vonpea

Von Pea & Aeon - "Things Have Changed"
https://soundcloud.com/vonpea/things-have-changed-produced

  

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mwasi kitoko
Member since Jul 15th 2007
60768 posts
Wed Feb-08-12 09:37 PM

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50. "the record industry crashed"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

www.royallegacy.org
http://therapfest.com/up-next-artists/

  

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Alphabet
Member since Jun 28th 2003
4402 posts
Wed Feb-08-12 09:49 PM

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51. "I think producers gave in to the necessary evil"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

of "free mixtapes/street albums/something for my fans to hold them over/Friday Night Leak Series, whatever you want to call em now"...format

When this first broke hard a couple years ago, as far as big name producers having their tracks wind up on 'some free throwaway shit' they weren't with it, and I know they had to feel some type of way about it.

But now, what are you gonna do?..the free street/downloadable album IS the dominate outlet of hip-hop music now, it's too late to go back now.

I guess the only thing those former Superproducers have now is experience in the game, and they can flip that into being more traditional producers in the Dr. Dre frame of thinking,
but from an artist standpoint, it really makes no sense to pay crazy prices for 'some beat', even if it is bangin..these days you can get that from anywhere.

Also cats are more privy and aware about building a sound, so alot of times they dance with the one they came with i.e. that producer thats been with them from the start when said artist was local building that brand/sound.


AND also, A big factor (probably the biggest)... the majority fans nowadays dont give a fuck WHO made the beat..

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Wed Feb-08-12 10:06 PM

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53. "whoever said any of those turkeys were super producers to begin with?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

you acting like those turkeys mentioned are named

Norman Whitfield

Holland, dozier and Holland

thom Bell

Quincy Jones

La and babyface

Rick James

R.Kelly

Jam and Lewis

Burt Bachrach

George Martin

Brian Wilson

Curtis Mayfield

Gamble and Huff

Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards

Stevie Wonder

Maurice White

Charles Stepney

George Clinton



i'm talking about real Producers not push button riding wave hot shot jive turkeys.

white man who signs there checks used them turkeys and then went Next!!!!!!!!!!

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Thu Feb-09-12 02:29 AM

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55. "LMAO as always. BTW I put it in quotes "
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Errol Walton Barrow
Member since Jul 02nd 2002
6183 posts
Thu Feb-09-12 09:40 AM

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56. "another sobering maxxx-im for life:"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

"white man who signs there checks used them turkeys and then went Next!!!!!!!!!!"

-------
http://adevotedappraisal.tumblr.com - Essays, reviews, short stories and free writes on music, film and life around us.

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
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75. "http://i.imgur.com/Y0kqy.gif"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/Y0kqy.gif

  

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LucidDreamer85
Member since Jun 15th 2009
840 posts
Tue Feb-14-12 09:03 PM

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57. "RE: How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become irrelevant?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Because people at home are making better beats for Free and they are charging $50,000 for a beat that sounds exactly like last months flavor of the week.

  

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howisya
Member since Nov 09th 2002
39905 posts
Wed Jan-09-13 11:39 AM

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58. "Your Good Thing (Is About To End)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

 

  

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CinisterCee
Member since Dec 27th 2005
2232 posts
Wed Jan-09-13 10:41 PM

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59. "Superproducer Rodney Darkchild Jerkins doesn't know what you're talmbout"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Because he switched lanes into the pop/OONTZ production for the artists that still have a budget.

Darkchild wins.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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Wed Jan-09-13 11:11 PM

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62. "Well he was R&B, I was mainly referring to Rap or Rap + R&B ones"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

But yeah. Shit, R&B on radio = Pop/Electro now half the time.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Wed Jan-09-13 11:00 PM

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60. "I guess this is the kinda stuff I missed by taking time off OKP"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

though, we have this kind of discussion at least every other month over at FutureProducers...

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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61. "LOL @ this being upped. So...Lex Luger had a strong run in 2010, "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and now, it's ALL on Mike Will. Drumma Boy was here 5 years ago and still is, although he was never like a #1-#2 in the game type.

Hit Boy is having a good run, and it's good and bad that all of his songs sound completely different, in comparison to Mustard. "Niggas in Paris" "Watch and learn" "Clique" "Backseat freestyle"..most of them have similarities, but sound a lot different. So it's where he doesn't have a signature like most super producers, but getting A+ level placements means he's in there for sure.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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NinthWonder
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
786 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 02:55 PM

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66. "RE: How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become irrelevant?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Note...I'm one of those who rarely talks about folks "falling
>off" because I realize that times change n all...but this is
>really a talk on how the entire tag and prestige of
>"Superproducer" has changed.
>
>Felt like from 98 or 99 and up to around 2006, 90% of all
>songs on the radio were produced by the same 10-15 hot
>producers at the time. Off the top of the head, these are some
>that seemed to own radio:
>
>Just Blaze
>Lil Jon
>Scott Storch
>Jazze Pha
>Dr. Dre
>Mr. Collipark
>The Neptunes
>Swizz Beatz
>Trackmasters
>Jermaine Dupri
>The Runners
>Cool and Dre
>Mannie Fresh
>Kanye West
>
>Since then, things have changed a whole lot. Lex Luger and a
>few new cats are def running things, and you still hear from a
>lot of those producers I listed there...but as a whole, it's
>nothing close to how it was at that time, where it was more
>about the producer than anything else. They'd drop their tags
>on it and everything so that you knew they made it...they
>basically became celebs on their own. At this point, only a
>few of us even know what Bangladesh and Boi-1da look like, and
>casual fans may not even realize who they are. A lot of hit
>songs in the last few years were produced by the artist's
>camps vs a major known producer.
>
>Is there anything on the business side that changed about it?
>Did folks just get tired of hearing everybody from every
>region on the same songs? Did their prices get too high for
>album budgets, especially since albums aren't selling nearly
>as much?
>
>Or...am I completely wrong?

I believe it is WAY tougher trying to establish yourself a producer period, because the market is so saturated....

And....everybody is a producer now.....nobody wants to be just a fan who enjoy the music...

Production is a craft. Once cats decided not to study the craft, it became watered down....

We Must Educate As Well as Entertain

9th Wonder
Grammy Award Winning Producer/DJ
Universal Zulu Nation
Harvard University Fellow
Artist of Residence - North Carolina Central U.
Visiting Professor - Duke University
Artist Of Residence - University of Penn

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 04:11 PM

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67. "there used to be more effort into becoming a producer..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

>I believe it is WAY tougher trying to establish yourself a
>producer period, because the market is so saturated....
>
>And....everybody is a producer now.....nobody wants to be just
>a fan who enjoy the music...
>
>Production is a craft. Once cats decided not to study the
>craft, it became watered down....
>


In parallel to what you're saying; Back in the days, you saved up and bought a piece of gear. Whether it was an MPC 60/60II, S950, ASR10, or whatever, you bought it and you learned it inside and out. The hardware made you work for everything. Every bit of dopeness you managed to extract from it had a lot of time spent behind it, and even more work ahead of it.

Software allowed the barrier for entry to be lowered, but not at first. Initially, there was sequencers like Cubase (formerly Pro Twenty-Four), Logic, and Master Tracks Pro. This stuff wasn't easy to use in even the slightest way, so there was still work to be done to get something good sounding to happen with them (mind you, they had to be used with samplers, drum machines, and other sound sources since they were purely MIDI sequencers). They were expensive too, and piracy was all but non existent.

Eventually, as features were added and computers got more powerful, software rivaled the power of some of the best music workstations money could buy.

It's at this point where the craft of producing was being lost.

Withe the advent of Reason, and Fruity Loops' 4.x updates, the power was placed within reach of anyone with a couple hundred dollars or less to spend and piracy further reduced the financial barrier to nothing. (Note: This is not a slight to 9th or anyone that uses/used FL as I use it almost exclusively myself)

With the advances in software in the last few years, the shit almost makes the beats for you. With little thought, cats are churning out sub-par sounding beats left and right in only minutes and on top of that, they're GIVING the shit away to MC Suchandsuch rappers for next to nothing. There was once a time where it wasn't uncommon for a cat to charge local rappers $250-$500 for a beat, now you can get beats 5 for $10. I can understand if it's a cat you really believe in: Just Blaze reportedly did "Exhibit C" without a dime charged. But there's guys offering to do a whole mixtape or album for the cost of an eigth and a couple 40's.

And that's what's happened: The music has been devalued to blue-light special pricing by guys that have no real time vested in crafting good music. This leaves the cats that have spent time honing their skills and building a rep for good solid production work ass out.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 04:43 PM

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69. "Looking back, I think these are some of the reasons I had stopped"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

producing.

I was only able to get the equipment I had as a kid because my Dad produced/composed, and that was Cubase and a Roland JV-35...so even then, I wasn't able to make GREAT beats bc I couldn't even use samples and had stock drums.

But it did become almost TOO accessible. It went from, "damn, you make beats, like from scratch???" to "ohh you make beats? That's dope, somebody from my High School does them too" to "oh you make beats, you use your iPhone? My little brother and my cousin were making some at my house last night!"

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 05:07 PM

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70. "RE: Looking back, I think these are some of the reasons I had stopped"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

>producing.
>
>I was only able to get the equipment I had as a kid because my
>Dad produced/composed, and that was Cubase and a Roland
>JV-35...so even then, I wasn't able to make GREAT beats bc I
>couldn't even use samples and had stock drums.
>
>But it did become almost TOO accessible. It went from, "damn,
>you make beats, like from scratch???" to "ohh you make beats?
>That's dope, somebody from my High School does them too" to
>"oh you make beats, you use your iPhone? My little brother and
>my cousin were making some at my house last night!"


Yeah, some of my first hip hop beats done on my own equipment were done with an Atari ST running MasterTracks Pro, a suck-ass Yamaha MU10 tone module, and a Novation MM10x. I had done beats on my uncle's stuff (mostly his Roland W30), and in a few small studios where I knew the cats that had 'em, but the MU10 beats were the first I did with my own shit.

No samples at all, so I learned to replay musical passages that I would have otherwise sampled. I put a lot of work into making music early on. I still make a lot of my music in the same way that I did when I finally got better equipment... Just without the equipment. I have a setup in Cubase SX3 that mimics some of the stuff I used back then for Detroit Techno, and I have one that mimics the hardware setup I used to make hip hop shits. In FL Studio, I just sit down and go.

Part of me misses the process I used to go through when making music on hardware to the point where I contemplate buying an ASR-X or MPC2000 (not the XL, just the 2000), some sound modules, and maybe an S950 or something like that just to have that creative flow I used to have.



---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 05:23 PM

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72. "So you're upset because it's not more difficult to make music?"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

I'm confused.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 06:38 PM

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76. "I wasn't gonna type a 5 pt essay on it, but it became too congested"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

and to where it was hard, almost impossible to profit...especially to go along with the mixtapes vs albums thing that came along.

The fact that it was extremely accessible and easy, and cheap, meant that eeeeverybody produced, and even if you had quality product, it was competitive as many have said. Even though a lot of folks loved my product, and even though I made good connects...even they weren't willing to pay what it was worth because they could easily get beats for cheap and free. Some would even be low enough to have producers re-create beats that were sent to them by producers so that they didn't have to pay them for it.

Now, the same exact thing happened with DJ'n because of technology...but I still focused on that and saw more success for a few hundred reasons. So technically, it wasn't "everybody produces, I quit!!!" just that subconsciously, I wasn't enjoying it as much, and dealing with artists and the $$$ was a major reason.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 06:48 PM

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77. "with work comes value..."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

>I'm confused.

With hard work put into something, you will place value in that product. With little to no work put into it, you place little, if any value in it. This is why cats offer up beats for next to nothing if not free: They didn't put much effort in it, so it has little value to them.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 07:10 PM

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80. "Yep, and the effect was HUGE. As 9th said, even the small time"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

little known producers could get $250-$500 off beats. Now, it's producers with songs on radio who can't even sell shit for that much.

I joke around that the girl who made "Teach me how to Dougie" got paid with a $25 Forever 21 gift card....but truth is, that song made millions, and she didn't even see a thousand up front...and only a few thousand on the "back end" which is what EVERY artist promises to producers. "When we get on?" "When this song hits radio?" "When we get our budget from the company?" = "YOU'LL GET PAID!"

And a lot of unestablished producers who are smart businessmen, as I halfway was, won't even get a placement when it's like "Naw...I need THIS up front, THIS percentage promised if it gets royalties" and all that.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 07:51 PM

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82. "RE: Yep, and the effect was HUGE. As 9th said, even the small time"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

>little known producers could get $250-$500 off beats. Now,
>it's producers with songs on radio who can't even sell shit
>for that much.
>
>I joke around that the girl who made "Teach me how to Dougie"
>got paid with a $25 Forever 21 gift card....but truth is, that
>song made millions, and she didn't even see a thousand up
>front...and only a few thousand on the "back end" which is
>what EVERY artist promises to producers. "When we get on?"
>"When this song hits radio?" "When we get our budget from the
>company?" = "YOU'LL GET PAID!"
>
>And a lot of unestablished producers who are smart
>businessmen, as I halfway was, won't even get a placement when
>it's like "Naw...I need THIS up front, THIS percentage
>promised if it gets royalties" and all that.


That's that bullshit. Nothing up front and a promise on the back end. As I said, if it's an artist that you really believe in, I can see throwing them a beat; I've done that myself. But when somebody hits me and I'm like "$xxxx up front, split publishing/mechanicals..." so on and so forth AND I want it in writing with my lawyers approval, they're like "Nah B, can I just get on that?".

Nope.

Which is why I have ONE release under my belt thus far.




... That's some cold shit about Runway Star. Did she really get a Forever21 card for that shit???

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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Alphabet
Member since Jun 28th 2003
4402 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 09:30 PM

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89. "^^^ Man, I get into the mechanicals, back end pay tip.."
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

now a days, niggas be looking at me like Im speaking profane spanish or some shit...

Im a creative individual by nature..a music lover be heart, who's also a business man in the brain. My business side seen the state of the producing game coming about 3 or 4 years ago, when cats starting making 'mixtapes' with ALL original material.

Im glad I was able to get into some music scoring and sound designing to supplement the decline on the freelance producer lane. Mainly for the issues you mentioned.





#PicABeat Audio Photo series. Where the beat is inspired by the photo.
http://soundcloud.com/KingAkai

http://kingakai.com

“I love these bitches, man. I really do.”
- Andre 3000

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 05:19 PM

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71. "Sounds like sour grapes"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58562 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 06:56 PM

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78. "i didn't get that vibe. i know u ain't the troll type, so...*shrugs*"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

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NinthWonder
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
786 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 08:07 PM

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86. "RE: i didn't get that vibe. i know u ain't the troll type, so...*shrugs..."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

>

He knows it wasn't that vibe.....

Attention man...attention....

Hence the reasons why artists sometime stay away from OKP

We Must Educate As Well as Entertain

9th Wonder
Grammy Award Winning Producer/DJ
Universal Zulu Nation
Harvard University Fellow
Artist of Residence - North Carolina Central U.
Visiting Professor - Duke University
Artist Of Residence - University of Penn

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 09:17 AM

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93. "Attention from you? I'm good fam"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

Been posting here long enough not to get gassed up like that. Your shit came off like you're bitter, that's all. If not, great for you.

And as someone said earlier, I'm quite certain I remember other producers clowning you for making beats on your laptop, so it's kind of rich to hear this argument from you, no?

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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liveguy
Member since Jan 01st 2004
7982 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 04:03 PM

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104. "everything he said is true though..."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

regardless if you the self proclaimed "fan" of the music believe it or not.

Nothing bitter about the sentiment when it's the truth.

You say you aint on some "look at me", yet talking down to a dude who lives the industry....not read about it and armchair A&R it...but lives the shit.

I'm sure homie know what he talkin' about.

It is possible to disagree without coming across as a jackwagon.

We see through all that boo boo like it's ghost shit... (c) Quelle Chris

| http://liveguy.bandcamp.com |
| www.soundcloud.com/liveguy |
| www.twitter.com/liveguy |
| www.instagram.com/theREALliveguy |
| XBOX ONE GT: theREALliveguy |

  

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NinthWonder
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
786 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 08:01 PM

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83. "RE: Sounds like sour grapes"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

>
Who...me?

Lol...not hardly...I'm GOOD....I just feel bad for the new kids who really try to make a mark on this game...

We Must Educate As Well as Entertain

9th Wonder
Grammy Award Winning Producer/DJ
Universal Zulu Nation
Harvard University Fellow
Artist of Residence - North Carolina Central U.
Visiting Professor - Duke University
Artist Of Residence - University of Penn

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 09:15 AM

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92. "The new kids will be alright"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

Sure, there are more producers then ever. But at the same time, there is more accessibility to make music than ever, and as someone who doesn't make music and thus has no vested interested, I think that's (mostly) a good thing.

It no longer takes equipment that costs hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to make beats, nor do you need a to spend a fortune on records to sample.

Who knows how many talented people were dissuaded from pursuing beat making 20 years ago because of all the costs involved. Now, they're doing shit in their moms basement on Fruity Loops.

While some may be threatened by this because they "don't appreciate the music" (whatever that even means, and as if anyone really knows if these kids do or not), I think that's a positive.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 01:13 PM

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96. "RE: The new kids will be alright"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

>Sure, there are more producers then ever. But at the same
>time, there is more accessibility to make music than ever, and
>as someone who doesn't make music and thus has no vested
>interested, I think that's (mostly) a good thing.
>
>It no longer takes equipment that costs hundreds, if not
>thousands, of dollars to make beats, nor do you need a to
>spend a fortune on records to sample.
>
>Who knows how many talented people were dissuaded from
>pursuing beat making 20 years ago because of all the costs
>involved. Now, they're doing shit in their moms basement on
>Fruity Loops.
>
>While some may be threatened by this because they "don't
>appreciate the music" (whatever that even means, and as if
>anyone really knows if these kids do or not), I think that's a
>positive.


The cost involved 20 years ago was high, sure, but you appreciated it more. If you weren't really serious about music, serious about making beats, you wouldn't waste your money or your time fucking with it. It was something only those with the dedication to the art got into. It also forced some cats (like myself) to be more creative because of the limits imposed by what you could afford to buy. A lot of dudes got on using older (at that time) gear instead of trying to buy new shit. Instead of saving up for an SP1200, S950, or MPC60/60II, you had cats buying second hand Mirage's, cheap Casio SK-1's, Casio RZ1 or an FZ1 or FZ10 if they could catch one just so they could get their feet wet, and ending up squeezing some amazing shit out of them.

Some of DJ Premier and Large Professor's early joints came out of the Casio SK-1.

I used to have a fairly well rounded recording setup in my apartment years ago made up of whatever I could cop for under $200 at a time. I had drum machines, keyboards, sound modules, a sampler, mixers and a PC that I used as a sequencer. I invested time in learning the ins and outs of each new piece that I added and could extract sounds out of some of that gear that made a number of seasoned vets say "You did this with what???". But that's what happens when you put time into your art.

The problem stems from several places, many of which have been outlined here already, but the one that sticks out to me is "work". The current generation doesn't work for shit, so they don't value anything like those before them. This and the fact that everything is at their fingertips immediately makes for an environment of individuals that don't see the value in hard work, and therefore can't understand why everything SHOULDN'T be easy. You got cats that whip up a bullshit beat, spit garbage rhymes over said bullshit beat, then shoot a video with their camera phone and upload the results to Youtube or Worldstar and they stand a halfway decent chance at attaining star status and a record deal...



... and they just started rapping and producing that afternoon!



A lot of these "producers" can't program a synth for shit, they use presets that came with their plugins (and rate them based on those presets, not by what you can actually do with them). They can't sample for shit, they rely on sample packs and pre-made loops. They don't know how to structure a song, how to give the vocalist room in a composition to spit, which is why a lot of the songs today have the rapper fighting the beat to get attention. They also don't know how to mix and don't have proper monitors opting to use their "Beats By Dre" headphones, wondering why their shit sounds like ass anywhere other than in the cans.

This is a product of this "gimmie now"-type generation. Zero work ethic, and the music they make fully reflects it.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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liveguy
Member since Jan 01st 2004
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Fri Jan-11-13 01:41 PM

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98. "bingo"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

We see through all that boo boo like it's ghost shit... (c) Quelle Chris

| http://liveguy.bandcamp.com |
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| XBOX ONE GT: theREALliveguy |

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 01:51 PM

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99. "We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

No disrespect, but a lot of that reads as some crotchety old man "back in my day..." shit.

Times have changed breh.

And you say these don't kids work, yet when I talk to young producers, they're the ones making beats all day and night, and truth be told, most of the old heads don't seem to be grinding (many have other life obligations though, so I don't blame them) at all anymore.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 02:04 PM

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100. "RE: We'll just have to agree to disagree I guess"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

>No disrespect, but a lot of that reads as some crotchety old
>man "back in my day..." shit.
>
>Times have changed breh.
>
>And you say these don't kids work, yet when I talk to young
>producers, they're the ones making beats all day and night,
>and truth be told, most of the old heads don't seem to be
>grinding (many have other life obligations though, so I don't
>blame them) at all anymore.

Wrong.

They're still using presets, they don't take the time to learn how to make their own sounds, so a lot of their shit sounds the same. They're still using ready-made drum loops and shit like that, so while yeah they may be making beats all the time, the method they're using is cookie-cutter at best.

You're right though: Times have changed... But that doesn't mean that times have changed for the better.

Myself, I take advantage of it by leveraging the technology to do things I used to do with my old setup, but within the space of my PC and laptop. I still make music the same way I used to: programming synths, chopping samples by ear, and whatnot. I just do it from within FL Studio or Cubase instead of with a room full of hardware.

These new cats can't tell you what an oscillator is or modulation routing, but they can tell you that so-and-so used the "Trap Muzik" patch in Beetmaker VST on a track on Jeezy's last mixtape.

"Newer" doesn't always mean "better", and that's a concept that cats like you fail to grasp.
---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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liveguy
Member since Jan 01st 2004
7982 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 05:30 PM

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73. "interesting perspective coming from you...."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

You were the one that got alotta folks on the "I can make beats too" bandwagon with use of Fruity Loops.

You were cold tho, so I could see why you got shine and then paid a lil sumpthin'...

But once people caught wind of what could be done on a low price software program....then everybody got big dreams and wanted to make them bangers using the least amount of money possible...

If it was back like in the 80's where only a few cats in a whole city would have a sampler because they were so damn expensive, things would be way different nowadays.

But you're right.....everyone either DJ's, makes beats, raps or sings...

America's Got Talent and American Idol got EVERYBODY gassed. lol

The personal computer has made everyone's lives much easier, but it also has its drawbacks depending on who you talk to (music $$$$$)...

Exclusivity no longer exists.

We see through all that boo boo like it's ghost shit... (c) Quelle Chris

| http://liveguy.bandcamp.com |
| www.soundcloud.com/liveguy |
| www.twitter.com/liveguy |
| www.instagram.com/theREALliveguy |
| XBOX ONE GT: theREALliveguy |

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 06:07 PM

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74. "RE: interesting perspective coming from you...."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

>You were the one that got alotta folks on the "I can make
>beats too" bandwagon with use of Fruity Loops.
>
>You were cold tho, so I could see why you got shine and then
>paid a lil sumpthin'...
>
>But once people caught wind of what could be done on a low
>price software program....then everybody got big dreams and
>wanted to make them bangers using the least amount of money
>possible...
>
>If it was back like in the 80's where only a few cats in a
>whole city would have a sampler because they were so damn
>expensive, things would be way different nowadays.
>
>But you're right.....everyone either DJ's, makes beats, raps
>or sings...
>
>America's Got Talent and American Idol got EVERYBODY gassed.
>lol
>
>The personal computer has made everyone's lives much easier,
>but it also has its drawbacks depending on who you talk to
>(music $$$$$)...
>
>Exclusivity no longer exists.


Count me as one of those people. I had Fruity Loops since 3.x, but it wasn't until I heard about LB via OKP, and further that I heard about 9th using Fruity Loops and Cool Edit on their tracks that I refocused on FL as a tool. I had it mainly to make Detroit Techno and Ghettotech, and to that end it was OK. I was more focused on using Cubase for music than FL. Hearing "Lovin It" brought me right back to FL like "hmmm... maybe I missed something..." and when I started making hip hop again, it became my go-to tool.

Now I know FL 3.x through 7 backwards and forward just like I used to know my hardware backwards and forwards. I just moved to 9 and more recently 10 and find I have a lot more to learn and relearn (but I still have 7 installed when I just want to be comfortable).

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 07:05 PM

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79. "I didn't know when 9th started, was it at that 2000-2001 time?"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

As a whole, I'm only surprised that the fact that everybody produces hasn't lead to much innovation or different techniques, and a lot of folks just carbon copy what's hot and don't even attempt to evolve it.

With DJ'n at least...I feel that we've become a lot more creative because of what we can do, in comparison to Rap producers. I feel the EDM and House producers have pushed boundaries more through technology.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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NinthWonder
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
786 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 08:06 PM

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85. "RE: I didn't know when 9th started, was it at that 2000-2001 time?"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

>As a whole, I'm only surprised that the fact that everybody
>produces hasn't lead to much innovation or different
>techniques, and a lot of folks just carbon copy what's hot and
>don't even attempt to evolve it.
>
>With DJ'n at least...I feel that we've become a lot more
>creative because of what we can do, in comparison to Rap
>producers. I feel the EDM and House producers have pushed
>boundaries more through technology.
>


Being a DJ also....problem is that SERATO has made ALOT of DJs not study the speed of records....let alone music genres at all.....DJs has become diluted as well.....

Check the "celebrity" DJ craze

We Must Educate As Well as Entertain

9th Wonder
Grammy Award Winning Producer/DJ
Universal Zulu Nation
Harvard University Fellow
Artist of Residence - North Carolina Central U.
Visiting Professor - Duke University
Artist Of Residence - University of Penn

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51977 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 08:15 PM

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87. "It for sure did dilute the DJ'n game. I just feel that it's helped some ..."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

us be creative in what we do. The speed is a trip though, and how a lotta DJ's just fly through everything so damn fast.

The celebrity DJ shit....man. Some of them don't even know what BPM stands for.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 02:13 AM

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91. "RE: I didn't know when 9th started, was it at that 2000-2001 time?"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          


>Being a DJ also....problem is that SERATO has made ALOT of DJs
>not study the speed of records....let alone music genres at
>all.....DJs has become diluted as well.....
>
>Check the "celebrity" DJ craze

Sometimes I feel like the only DJ left that DOESN'T use Serato. I've been spinning for over 20 years, never needed some shit like that. I do see how it can be useful by allowing me to use music I have as an MP3 and not on vinyl (like my own tracks), but the glut of cats out there trying to be a DJ is retarded.

The celebrity DJ craze spans back into the late 90's, when cats like Paul Oakenfold, Judge Jules, Sasha and the like were getting major press and and star status in Europe and eventually here stateside.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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NinthWonder
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
786 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 08:04 PM

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84. "RE: interesting perspective coming from you...."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

>You were the one that got alotta folks on the "I can make
>beats too" bandwagon with use of Fruity Loops.
>
>You were cold tho, so I could see why you got shine and then
>paid a lil sumpthin'...
>
>But once people caught wind of what could be done on a low
>price software program....then everybody got big dreams and
>wanted to make them bangers using the least amount of money
>possible...
>
>If it was back like in the 80's where only a few cats in a
>whole city would have a sampler because they were so damn
>expensive, things would be way different nowadays.
>
>But you're right.....everyone either DJ's, makes beats, raps
>or sings...
>
>America's Got Talent and American Idol got EVERYBODY gassed.
>lol
>
>The personal computer has made everyone's lives much easier,
>but it also has its drawbacks depending on who you talk to
>(music $$$$$)...
>
>Exclusivity no longer exists.

I think what makes a BIG difference...no matter WHAT you use....is the fact that alot of youngins lack music theory, and a LOVE for the music, instead of just trying to find a way to make money....

It also points directly to the shiny suit era. As soon as everyone sat at home and said...."maaaan I can do that"...it was all she wrote...

We Must Educate As Well as Entertain

9th Wonder
Grammy Award Winning Producer/DJ
Universal Zulu Nation
Harvard University Fellow
Artist of Residence - North Carolina Central U.
Visiting Professor - Duke University
Artist Of Residence - University of Penn

  

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liveguy
Member since Jan 01st 2004
7982 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 08:30 PM

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88. "RE: interesting perspective coming from you...."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

>I think what makes a BIG difference...no matter WHAT you
>use....is the fact that alot of youngins lack music theory,
>and a LOVE for the music, instead of just trying to find a way
>to make money....
>
>It also points directly to the shiny suit era. As soon as
>everyone sat at home and said...."maaaan I can do that"...it
>was all she wrote...
>

That too. lol

But to me it stems from the "Napster/MP3" generation and lack of attention spans due to ease of getting the music....

Fools can download a lifetime worth of music for free, so there's no value AT ALL in music to alotta people old or new.

I'm 37 and remember when in HS we would go to the record store FAITHFULLY spending lunch money to get the new dopeness every tuesday.

That stuff I still have means A LOT to me to this day....

Kids coming up now don't have those experiences and therefore don't value the music the way we did coming up.

I agree with what you said, but I also think broken down....it's mainly just a matter of value....or lack thereof.

We PAID for that shit and it had value to us because of it...gave more time to it....baby'd it...all that.

We all are guilty of that new school tho as well.....

Download - listen - archive - move on to the next - repeat

As far as beats.....that plug in sound *almost* as good as Neve....lol

The convenience is great, but there is a cost.

The people that LOVE the music, but want and deserve better are the ones paying the price.

General public don't have love for music like that tho....

Many levels of blame to go around.

We see through all that boo boo like it's ghost shit... (c) Quelle Chris

| http://liveguy.bandcamp.com |
| www.soundcloud.com/liveguy |
| www.twitter.com/liveguy |
| www.instagram.com/theREALliveguy |
| XBOX ONE GT: theREALliveguy |

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 02:13 PM

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101. "cmon man"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

the idea that democratization of technology and participation in art is somehow a BAD THING is absolutely ridiculous. also vehemently disagree with the idea that people's motivations towards making music have substantially changed.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 02:42 PM

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102. "RE: cmon man"
In response to Reply # 101
Fri Jan-11-13 03:18 PM by PoppaGeorge

  

          

>the idea that democratization of technology and participation
>in art is somehow a BAD THING is absolutely ridiculous. also
>vehemently disagree with the idea that people's motivations
>towards making music have substantially changed.


But it has.

Back in the day, there was a little money in it, but not like you would think. Cats that were in it, were in it for the music, to make something significant. "I wanna hear a dope MC spit over some shit I made" meant more than anything.

Today the overwhelming reason anyone downloads that FL Studio torrent is to make money. They see how some cats HAD it, and they want to get some of that money too. You read in magazines on how that -one- beat turn some dudes life around financially (then you never hear from his ass again...) or whatever, and they're trying to get that paper.


---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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Von Pea
Member since Jul 07th 2002
23521 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 02:55 PM

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103. "its absolutely changed man lol"
In response to Reply # 101
Fri Jan-11-13 03:00 PM by Von Pea

  

          

there is such a "because i can" attitude with many people making music now. if the literal garage bands of yesteryear could simply email a pitchfork critic or nmc member over and over until they finally got a song posted right next to the new nirvana/NWA single back then things wouldve been different back then too. it has nothing to do with being bitter or having an above it all attitude, it just is the truth.

the issue is now we dont know who would have "made it" anyway without the easier methods of making music...that doesnt mean 9th or odd future or whoever else wouldnt have made it...we'll never know.

theres absolutely a difference between a person thats always been into music becoming a dj vs some socialite deciding hey fuck it im gonna dj today/im gonna make a song, shoot a video, and email the person i know at fuse because i can.



http://www.flavors.me/vonpea

Von Pea & Aeon - "Things Have Changed"
https://soundcloud.com/vonpea/things-have-changed-produced

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 04:14 PM

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105. "i disagree"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

social media and blogs might have changed methods of communication, but the idea that connections/access haven't always been part of music strikes me as inaccurate. and are we really comfortable with the claim that a significant percentage of people in entertainment haven't always been motivated by dreams of stardom/wealth?

personally, i find arguments about how ______ used to be ideologically pure but is now perverted by _______ are usually rooted in revisionism.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 04:32 PM

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106. "RE: i disagree"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

>social media and blogs might have changed methods of
>communication, but the idea that connections/access haven't
>always been part of music strikes me as inaccurate. and are we
>really comfortable with the claim that a significant
>percentage of people in entertainment haven't always been
>motivated by dreams of stardom/wealth?
>
>personally, i find arguments about how ______ used to be
>ideologically pure but is now perverted by _______ are usually
>rooted in revisionism.


In this case it's rooted in "iliveditsawitknowitism"

When there was little money in it, dudes were still doing it. Rappers wanted to show that they were the illest MC, producers wanted to make the dopest beats, DJ's (who were also often the producer) wanted to be #1 on the 12's. This was in the days when going gold was something that nobody but the absolute dopest acts did and platinum meant you crossed over (i.e. "Walk This Way")

People did it for reasons other than gettin paid, 'cause if that's all that was on anyone's mind there would have been far more rappers out there.

Don't get me wrong, money was part of it, but a small part.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 04:43 PM

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107. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

WE DID FOR THE LOVE MAN
ALL THESE KID JUST CARE ABOUT MONEY

there's been a grand sum of ZERO examples offered of producers who (inexplicably) think that making beats is some get-rich-quick scheme and have profited accordingly. if they exist at all, they're exceedingly rare.

people's motivations for making music are irrelevant. rakim got into rapping for the girls. does that somehow make him less noble than someone who got into music for the pure love of crafting harmonies?


  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 04:54 PM

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108. "RE: LOL"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

>WE DID FOR THE LOVE MAN
>ALL THESE KID JUST CARE ABOUT MONEY
>
>there's been a grand sum of ZERO examples offered of producers
>who (inexplicably) think that making beats is some
>get-rich-quick scheme and have profited accordingly. if they
>exist at all, they're exceedingly rare.
>
>people's motivations for making music are irrelevant. rakim
>got into rapping for the girls. does that somehow make him
>less noble than someone who got into music for the pure love
>of crafting harmonies?
>
>
>

That's because they have yet to profit... And likely never will.


---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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Guinness
Charter member
26270 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 05:24 PM

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109. "quite an epidemic."
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

all these unsuccessful, obscure producers are truly ruining hiphop.

  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 05:48 PM

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110. "RE: quite an epidemic."
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

>all these unsuccessful, obscure producers are truly ruining
>hiphop.

Ask the question on any producers message board. You'll find that the majority of them are in it for the money and nothing more.

I've asked it just a little while ago. One of the answers was:

"The money. I'll leave the "do this for the love of music" for the nerds."

Thread has only 4 replies so far. Of those, all 4 are in it for the money with one saying "Both".

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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Guinness
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26270 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 05:55 PM

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111. "truly a plague."
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9232 posts
Sat Jan-12-13 10:34 PM

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114. "ill tell u one thing 'everyone' isnt rushing out to do tho...play an.."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

instrument...know why? cause u cant cheat or bullshit...u actually gotta put in TIME and WORK and actually learn the instrument...thats why real musicians will always get props in real music circles whether 'using live instruments' is hot at the moment or not

>
>But you're right.....everyone either DJ's, makes beats, raps
>or sings...

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
6794 posts
Sun Jan-13-13 12:12 AM

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116. "RE: ill tell u one thing 'everyone' isnt rushing out to do tho...play an..."
In response to Reply # 114
Sun Jan-13-13 12:13 AM by double 0

          

you do know that there are ..programs that...

-will play any drum groove you can imagine
-create a chord from playing a single note (no music theory necessary)
-take a sample.. convert it to midi then you can choose how you want to alter it
-type in words and have it sung (there is a whole digital pop star in japan)

People aren't rushing to play instruments because that aint the shit thats cool..

kids played guitar to get hoes back in the day..

now you rap.. DJ... make beats for the same outcome

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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mikediggz
Member since Dec 02nd 2003
9232 posts
Sun Jan-13-13 12:45 AM

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117. "RE: programming some equip to sound like a guitar chord"
In response to Reply # 116
Sun Jan-13-13 12:47 AM by mikediggz

  

          

and playg a chord are two dif things fam...you may have missed the point of my post. there are still people who think playing instruments is cool, you just cant go out and learn that shit overnite...so unless u really bout it you wont do it. thats whe way it SHOULD be with DJing and 'making beats' but its not. thats partially because now there are shortcuts. like i said, musicians are respected within REAL music circles, not necessarily amongst fly by night impressionable kids

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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118. "RE: programming some equip to sound like a guitar chord"
In response to Reply # 117


          

In that sense I agree..

But technology trudges forward

anything that was "hard" 50 years ago is obviously easier now..

Photography

Producing

video editing

photo editing

etc...

I think that the people who truly push the boundaries out of sheer will and creativity are still here... you just can't assume they "make hip hop beats"..

Stuff I see in the EDM world and even the pop world is way more intricate and advanced than a 4-8 bar loop + drums

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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normal35762
Member since Oct 20th 2004
12957 posts
Thu Jan-10-13 07:16 PM

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81. "bookmark."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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JAESCOTT777
Member since Feb 18th 2006
28484 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 10:44 AM

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94. "It became too easy to create hit records "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Like 9th said everybody is a producer it's over saturated
Big time

I know music in general is watered down
But hip hop seems to be the most

It's kind of the downfall of not being necessary
To actually play instruments in a way

You can't download a guitar god pack
And sound like john lee hooker or jimi or some shit

You gave to really be dedicated to learn said instrument

In hip hop it's too accessible










  

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PoppaGeorge
Member since Nov 07th 2004
10384 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 01:16 PM

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97. "See reply #96"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

>Like 9th said everybody is a producer it's over saturated
>Big time
>
>I know music in general is watered down
>But hip hop seems to be the most
>
>It's kind of the downfall of not being necessary
>To actually play instruments in a way
>
>You can't download a guitar god pack
>And sound like john lee hooker or jimi or some shit
>
>You gave to really be dedicated to learn said instrument
>
>In hip hop it's too accessible
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I agree here. It's too fuckin easy.

---------------------------

I miss Tha D... But I'll never move back there.


R.I.P. Disco D

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
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119. "RE: It became too easy to create hit records "
In response to Reply # 94


          

it's not easy...

If it was everyone wouldnt be banging on one man/s door for them

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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Agency
Member since Feb 01st 2007
522 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 06:49 PM

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112. "Things became less eventful."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

These superproducers were perceived as such because they were attached to large movements that allowed them to be extremely visible in the mainstream. These producers were getting recognized because they were attached to a large persona that was marketable. Music videos played a crucial part because this is where many people first saw what that person who made the beat looked like. There was more of a community atmosphere because large groups of people were seeing the producers on screen simultaneously for the first time. Youtube interfered with this a whole lot. The superproducer had a very strong symbolic presence in music back then. Their craft even seemed more appreciated. The Neptunes story seems to be one of the strongest examples of what happened. I still remember when they dropped Clones. They were huge back then. I remember them doing a radio interview explaining the meaning behind Clones. They said something along the lines of there being so many people emulating their sound. I was with my mom and she just happened to stop at Target that day. I went immediately to the music section and grabbed a copy of Clones. That was an EVENT.

Now producers being backed by a major label to release an album or getting that exposure to even talk on the radio about their project is unlikely. I guess the music industry realized that the persona was way more marketable than the actual music.

It's kind of funny because The Neptunes sound was the mainstream sound back then. It was all over the radio. The same thing is happening now but in a different way. The mainstream sound right now, which seems to be trap, is being emulated by millions of trap clones. It's easy to get access to make a trap beat for the low.

Being a producer seemed to be more exclusive back then. I would have loved to have a MPC or whatever The Neptunes were using back then but I couldn't afford it. I didn't find out about Fruity Loops until I found out about 9th Wonder.

When you could download software to make beats that sounded like whoever was hot at the moment, it was a WRAP. Soulja Boy blowing up was just fuel to the fire that was already raging. A superproducer is less super when his craft is over-saturated. When some unknown new producer starts getting more recognition than a superproducer and for subpar work and no real portfolio, then it's all bad from there. It also just takes too long for those superproducers listed to release their stuff. In all that time in between, way too much is happening in music that just makes them less relevant.

@pstylst

  

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TRENDone
Charter member
15616 posts
Fri Jan-11-13 09:44 PM

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113. "RE: How did "Superproducers" as a whole fall off and become irrelevant?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>Just Blaze
>Lil Jon
>Scott Storch
>Jazze Pha
>Dr. Dre
>Mr. Collipark
>The Neptunes
>Swizz Beatz
>Trackmasters
>Jermaine Dupri
>The Runners
>Cool and Dre
>Mannie Fresh
>Kanye West
>

i think with a lot of those artists, they found other ventures that made them more money compared to just making music. and they were able to be just as competitive and creative. music isn't their primary concern anymore. for example dre and headphones, diddy and vodka, jay-z apparel.

all the names listed above above are DJs and have used live musicians on their tracks. these new producers tho, i'm not even sure they'd know how to play a vinyl record or even track live instruments on their beats. real live instruments, not just a synth patch playing thru a weighted midi or pad.

____________________________________________________________________

San Diego State's holy trinity of sports:
Kawhi Leonard
Marshall Faulk
Tony Gwynn (RIP)

#Aztec4Life

  

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double 0
Member since Nov 17th 2004
6794 posts
Sun Jan-13-13 12:00 AM

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115. "RE: How did &amp;quot;Superproducers&amp;quot; as a whole fall off and b..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jan-13-13 12:04 AM by double 0

          

With budgets drying up... the labels had to go with a diff route...

so the "writing camp" comes into play

instead of throwing 250k at timbo or Neptunes and "hope" for one song

I can pay 250k and put 50 hungry songwriters and producers in studios.. round robin for a week straight...

make 100+ songs and pick the best 12

which one do you think makes more economical sense...

then there are the dr luke or Tricky/Dream camps that are 5 co producers 10 singersongwriters with track records and a current sound... I'd pay them before i'd pay someone that wants to "dance all in the videos" lol

Luke just got 62 MILLION from sony...

There is also a different kinda producer.. the SUPERproducers were as big as they were because they were 1/2 artist.. Dre, Timbo, Ye, Neptunes, Teddy Riley.. shit even Darkchild talked on records... they had an ability to sell themselves that made them bigger than just "beats"

those Artist/Producers now...are in the EDM world... Guetta, Avicii, Skrillex.. they don't need to deal with "rap" bullshit to be successful and they are BIGGER than rap artists

EDIT: that being said... if timbo comes correct on monday with this Justin Timberlake new shit he's "Back" and Kanye is still a HUGE star super producer

Double 0
DJ/Producer/Artist
Producer in Kidz In The Hall
-------------------------------------------
twitter: @godouble0
IG: @godouble0
www.thinklikearapper.com

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15500 posts
Sun Jan-13-13 12:16 PM

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120. "Production is the last part of rap music that isn't"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

tainted by branding and marketing.

A lot of "rap" fans, media etc do not care about quality it's all about what brand, logo etcetera is connected to it.

Producers started getting real big headed and greedy on their pricing.

And unlike anything else in rap music bias is least likely to display itself in beat making.
In normal terms if the beat bangs the beat bangs. The amount of great producers out there is scary and truth be told it comes down to the engineering.

I had an issue wit a producer who is not well known thinking I wanted to come up off his name, I'll never use a beat by him again.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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