I know people do the "Nas Lost" on here a lot but on a serious note, where do you rank Nas honestly on the All Time MC List? Where? Why? Nas is my favorite MC but I will say to me he is Top 5 (between 3-5) to me but what about you?

Below show that Nas is not as lazy as some people might think. If you add this and his unreleased material (legendary enough off that) its hard for me to imagine a top 10 without him. Thoughts??

Studio albums (wiki)

Illmatic (1994)
It Was Written (1996)
I Am... (1999)
Nastradamus (1999)
Stillmatic (2001)
God's Son (2002)
Street's Disciple (2004)
Hip Hop Is Dead (2006)
Untitled (2008)
Life Is Good (2012)...coming

Collaboration albums

The Firm: The Album (with The Firm) (1997)
Distant Relatives (with Damian Marley) (2010)

Compilation albums

QB's Finest (with Various Artists) (2000)
From Illmatic to Stillmatic: The Remixes (2002)
The Lost Tapes (2002)
Greatest Hits (2007)
The Lost Tapes: Vol. 2 (2012)coming?

#Peace

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

lulz

What are you ranking exactly?

Right now I wanna say #1 just because he's my favorite, and I think him at his best IS the best.

Because on the other hand, although Nas is my #1, I know that Jay-Z is the "greatest" even though he only has 2 good albums too me.

I'm talking about where would he rank as an overall MC in regards to talent, albums, legacy, flow, lyrics etc..etc.. How great is Nas?

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

#1 - Jay Z

Then 2-4 is a really close match up between Big,Pac, and Nas.

Nas is definently the better artist out of the 3, Jay too, but he's Jay- Z. The only thing Pac and Biggie have over Nas is impact/ a legacy. The only thing that keeps me from putting Nas at number 2 is that idk how people, people being the average pop listener, will remember Nas when he eventually dies.

Ah what ever. Nas at #2 because his discog kills Big's and Pac's, the whole ranking really depends on how important Impact, is in determining "Greatness". B/c too me Nas's discography/skill kills, Biggie,Pac, and Jays.

#2 - Nas
#3 - Biggie
#4 - Pac

lol..I hear you fam...I'm not sure what my top 5 are....I argue with myself about 7 MC's in no order... Rakim, KRS, Jigga, Nas, Biggie/Pac/LL .....lol

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

I would really love to put LL, KRS, or Rakim up there; but impact, relevancy hold me back.

I said I'd love to list KRS and Rakim, but they have 0 relevance today.

I wasn't trying to sleight their impact.

And even if they're not directly relevant, rappers that they had a large influence on are still relevant. Not to mention, they had long runs of being relevant, at a time when the life span of rappers was really short.

Hell, LL was relevant for 20 years. How you gonna say somebody can't be the greatest because they came out in 85 instead of 95? I mean, if in 2021, Jay-z is done and nobody checks for his new stuff anymore, does that mean he can no longer be the greatest in your eyes?

That's like saying Michael Jordan is no longer the greatest because he doesn't still play in the NBA and isn't better than Kobe right today.

But, see the difference is people KNOW Michael Jordan. Michael's still around/visible and people know who he is.

Rakim and KRS don't have it like that. LL is the closest to being there since he's still somewhat visible.

You ask anyone who Michael Jordan is 99% of the time they can tell you, do the same for Rakim or KRS you'll get blank stares most of the time.

20 years from now I do think people will still know who Jay Z is or was, same with Pac and Big. They had impact, output, and will continue to be known.

>You ask anyone who Michael Jordan is 99% of the time they can
>tell you, do the same for Rakim or KRS you'll get blank stares
>most of the time.

I mean....WHAT!?!?! You really showing your age right now.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Go find any random person

Who's Kool Herc?
Blank stare

Who's Rakim
Blank stare

Who's LL Cool J
You'd get an which I conceded above.

Who's KRS-One
Blank Stare.

See what I mean^

Hip hop fans know Rakim and KRS. Even young ones. They might not listen to them, but they know. If they don't know, they ain't no hip hop fan in the first place.

And if they don't know and aren't much of a hip hop fan, they have no say on who is the "greatest" in the first place so who gives a damn?

The fuck???

Jordan was able to be Jordan because of Magic and Larry

Magic and Larry could be Magic and Larry because of

Oscar and Jerry

Who were able to be them because of Bill Russell


Who was able to be Russell because of George Mikan


Who was able to be George Mikan because of


The actual pioneers are always relatively obscure.


----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

It's a very sad fact that pioneers don't get the credit, or respect they deserve.

It's even worse with Hip Hop though since it moves so fast, the elders and forefathers of the genre don't get any real recognition.

Like how Kool Herc had to beg for donations.

Wtf.

Puff, Jay, long list of wealthy rappers, couldn't just through him a few stacks.

It's sad. :\

>It's a very sad fact that pioneers don't get the credit, or
>respect they deserve.
>
>It's even worse with Hip Hop though since it moves so fast,
>the elders and forefathers of the genre don't get any real
>recognition.
>
>Like how Kool Herc had to beg for donations.
>
>Wtf.
>
>Puff, Jay, long list of wealthy rappers, couldn't just through
>him a few stacks.
>
>It's sad. :\


Just because the world doesn't know KRS One like they
do Jay says nothing for Jay deserving a higher place
on the all-time greats list

Jay benefited from the sacrifices of guys like
KRS...almost by definition, the Rakims and KRS's
have to be among the all time greats...the succeeded
in an era when the music was completely taboo/unknown






----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

. . .than Rakim.

~Austin

os·ti·na·to
/ˌästəˈnädō/
noun
a continually repeated musical phrase or rhythm

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

Impact my G? Rakim is the blueprint of the modern MC. Every MC will tell you that..lol..I respect your opinion but you might want to google and wiki Rakim for a little research.

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

I know who Rakim is, I heard him *before* hearing Nas.
And once I heard Nas for the first time I thought of Nas as Ra 1.5.

But, what I'm saying is impact & relevancy. Rakim no doubt was very important for the development as Mcing lyrically, and sylistically.

But, today he has no relevance, none whatsoever to the average Hip-Hop listener.

You said overall, so I figured relevance today counted as well.

U mean the the avg YOUNG hip hop listener.

The average young Hip-Hop listener is the average Hip-Hop listener.

when i think of that discography, he's top 5

If were really being honest with ourselves

I can't really come up with a number, but if I were discussing my favorite MCs ever, he wouldn't even occur to me.

Sorry, but you asked.

~Austin

os·ti·na·to
/ˌästəˈnädō/
noun
a continually repeated musical phrase or rhythm

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

these gentlemen are sloppily sucking off a rapper whose very name is synonymous with squandered talent and dismal disappointment.

His 100 or so unreleased songs show his hasnt wasted an ounce of talent. The biggest issue is not putting his best tracks on his LP's. He has more great unreleased songs than any MC in the history or rap including Tupac. It's not even close when it comes to that but to just not like him is cool. No issue with that but he has unreleased classics for days. He is just not a good business cat.

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

>these gentlemen are sloppily sucking off a rapper whose very
>name is synonymous with squandered talent and dismal
>disappointment.

You sound like the dickheads who hate on Randy Moss'
career.

Its one of the 3 best ever for a wide receiver.

End of discussion.

----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Randy Moss's rookie season was one of the best rookie seasons in NFL History.

He followed that up with a sterling second year, third year, fourth year, etc...

Yeah, he fell off for a minute, but he came back and once again played some of the best football ever played at his position.

What exactly is parallel of Randy Moss' career and that of Nas? Randy Moss's entire career was absolutely not defined by his rookie year.

<--- Big Baller World Order

Some uneven albums, but he's still made more great songs than damn near everyone. And when it comes down to it, he raps better than everyone else and there's only a few that you can debate as being better rappers.

Rakim, Kane, KRS, LL, Cube, Pac, Scarface, Biggie, jay, Chuck D, and Redman get consideration as next best IMO.

More quotables over a longer period of time (1993-present) than your favorite Rapper's favorite Rapper. Say what you will about the beats,he's NEVER fallen off lyrically.STILL just as sharp and hungry sounding today as ever (see:"Nasty & the doubletime flow on the Wayne LP) 18 years later! This is where the Jay stans stumble and start coming at you with everything EXCEPT skills cause since the Black album he fell off lyrically with that Half talk-half flow shit he does now. Jay signed Nas,He's on the Forbes list,he took an L with Kelis,bla bla bla.....If Jay didn't think Nas was already looked at as the Best MC why did he throw the Bait out there then? he knew to be considered best who he had to go thru and it backfired on him.

Who sounds best RIGHT TODAY? (c) Coolidge. Not records but SKILLS??? Not half as close as some yall wanna pretend.

https://twitter.com/DJDanSpeak

https://soundcloud.com/dan-speak/the-voyage-mix?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=twitter

n/m

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Rakim
Jay
Nas
Kool Moe Dee
Black Thought

************************************************************

The word poetry used to get brought up a lot in Hip-Hop, often inappropriately,
but nevertheless rarely gets said any more. Nas is one of the true poets in Hip-Hop
history. He's the student of Rakim and he surpassed his mentor. End of story.
I make a best of Nas mix, 18 tracks, no MC is touching it with a 10 foot pole.
And if they are, their names sound like Kool G Rap, not whoever is coming out most
of your mouths.

I'm interested to see if they mirror the 18 tracks I think I might pick.

I haven't come up with that list yet but it wouldn't take long. Or maybe it would, cause it'd be hard to narrow it down.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Glad you asked. . lets put it this way. I was trying to school somebody on Nas
fairly recently and gave them this tracklist -

1. No Ideas Original
2. Nas is Like
3. Take It In Blood
4. Purple
5. N.Y. State of Mind, Pt 2
6. Verbal Intercourse
7. Halftime
8. The Message
9. I Gave You Power
10. Made You Look
11. Theif's Theme
12. Live at the Barbecue
13. N.Y. State of Mind
14. Fast Life (Norfside Remix)
15. The World Is Yours
16. One Mic
17. Affirmative Action
18. It Ain't Hard To Tell

You named every track that immediately came to mind for me when I first read your post...which were:

Nas is Like, Take It in Blood, The Message, The World is Yours, Verbal Intercourse, and NY State of Mind.

The rest of your list is great too. I'll have to give some thought to narrowing my list down to 18 to see how they would compare. I'll report back.

>Glad you asked. . lets put it this way. I was trying to
>school somebody on Nas
>fairly recently and gave them this tracklist -
>
>1. No Ideas Original
>2. Nas is Like
>3. Take It In Blood
>4. Purple
>5. N.Y. State of Mind, Pt 2
>6. Verbal Intercourse
>7. Halftime
>8. The Message
>9. I Gave You Power
>10. Made You Look
>11. Theif's Theme
>12. Live at the Barbecue
>13. N.Y. State of Mind
>14. Fast Life (Norfside Remix)
>15. The World Is Yours
>16. One Mic
>17. Affirmative Action
>18. It Ain't Hard To Tell

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/geek_down__nodimas_hip_hop_index

skipping groups and guys I consider mainly producers

1. Big Boi (MATH BIAS)
2. KRS-One
3. Notorious B.I.G.
4. Masta Ace
5. MF DOOM
6. Mos Def
7. Raekwon (gets a major boost for touching 75% of tracks on 36 Chambers, which no other MC did and what I use to include a group album in a solo score)
8. Q-Tip
9. Freddie Gibbs
10. 2Pac
11. Jay-Z
12. Ghostface Killah
13. Kanye West
14. Nas
15. Lil' Wayne


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

And "hip."

~Austin

os·ti·na·to
/ˌästəˈnädō/
noun
a continually repeated musical phrase or rhythm

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

No disrespect but I cant take a list serious when you have someone like Freddie Gibbs over Nas and he doesnt even have an official LP and Nas has 18 years of work. MF Doom over Nas..lol...dude, now if these are just your favorite rappers...thats one thing..

"Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds."-Albert Einstein

http://twitter.com/#!/TonyHanesPoetry

what calculations cause you to pick a guy with no albums over a guy with 18 years?

Like you said, had he said "favorite" it'd be a different story.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

it's just more fun for me this way. blame There's a God on the Mic.

since you brought up Gibbs, this is the comparison. (artists get a .5 boost for every 5 albums to the final average)

Nas is just as good of a rapper, and in my top 5 most listened to rappers ever. But if I'm talking about the music as a whole, right now I think Gibbs is doing a little better beats, songs, etc. wise. And yea, that's just me. I never mean to say 'math' in an objective sense, just 'bored one day in a record store' sense.

Either way, fake or real math, I don't think a difference of .11 means much to the average joe ie. me. Maybe actual mathematicians and scientists. Oh well.

Lastly, Midwestgangsta...is an album (if you missed the remastered, remixed NO DJ version dropped a week later...you lost). A fantastic one. Edged into my top 50 over the past few years.

Freddie Gibbs

1. Midwestgangstaboxframecadillacmuzik: 8.92
2. The Miseducation of Freddie Gibbs: 8.07
3. Lord Giveth, Lord Taketh Away: 8.03
4. Str8 Killa: 7.59
5. Str8 Killa No Filla: 7.45
6. Live from Gary, Indiana Part 2: 6.17
___________________________________
Average: 8.21/10

46.23 + .5

Nas

1. Illmatic: 9.86
2. The Lost Tapes: 8.95
3. God's Son: 7.89
4. It Was Written: 7.89
5. Stillmatic: 7.37
6. Distant Relatives: 7.25
7. The Nigger Tape: 7.18
8. Untitled: 6.78
9. I Am...: 5.87
10. Street's Disciple: 5.82
11. Hip Hop Is Dead: 5.80
12. Nastradamus: 4.57
___________________________________
Average: 8.10/10

85.23 + 1.00


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

I can appreciate that, fully.

It's all opinion anyway, I just thought it was funny before remembering that you actually did have some kind of ratings system. Good stuff.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

Shakespeare.

If you like Kanye better as an artist overall that's fine, good for you,
but to have him higher on a 'Best MC's List?' Nah son.

I mean honestly, its just plain irresponsible and borderline ignorant.

in the original post. this IS a list of artists.

if I were to rank MCs I have no idea where I'd rank almost anyone other than having Jay, Ghost and Nas in the top 3.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

dude is one of the few baddest lyricist ever, however a few things work against him

too many uneven and gimmicky based projects that just didn't compliment his attempts

his cross over attempts are hit and miss and he inflicted more damage on himself than any rapper could dare.

Nas never had to change and he tried to stay relevent and met with mixed results.

he had a chance IMO at one time to be in the top 7 but dude ain't counted in so long and I can't even tell you the last cut he made that moved me, however taking everything into consideration i'll say in the 11-19 slot which is a great compliment and it still tells me he could have been higher had he went for his best stuff as to trying to be trendy or do some stuff that was beneath him.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

your criticisms. his crossover attempts were failures. and many
of his projects really fell flat. but that being said, when you isolate
his best material, when I forget all of the context and just play
his best stuff, he's one of if not the best.

1. Jay-Z
2. Biggie
3. Rakim
4. Nas
5. Pac

- Artistic credibility

- Has sold a lot of records (stop it, he has)

- Longevity

- Influence




----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

i mean, there are other "conceivable standards."

for example, nas doesn't really have many big hit records over the last decade. "made you look," "one mic," "i can" and "ether" don't stack up against what artists like 50 cent or TI or wayne or jeezy or busta have done from a popularity standpoint over that duration. not saying nas shouldn't be higher than those dudes, just saying it's a metric.

>i mean, there are other "conceivable standards."
>
>for example, nas doesn't really have many big hit records over
>the last decade. "made you look," "one mic," "i can" and
>"ether" don't stack up against what artists like 50 cent or TI
>or wayne or jeezy or busta have done from a popularity
>standpoint over that duration. not saying nas shouldn't be
>higher than those dudes, just saying it's a metric.

I mean, M.I.A. also has a single bigger than any Nas
single. You're just manufacturing the "singles" category
because it allows you to hate.

Because Nas' albums actually sell fairly well by rap
standards, and album sales are the far more important
financial metric if we are going to put finances into
the equation at all


I mean, we can also subtract points because he got divorced
if it allows you to hate properly.





----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

i'm not hating or being argumentative. are you really pretending hit songs--whether on the radio, in the streets or the club--isn't a viable category to discuss? in any popular genre of music, whenever great artists are discussed, they talk about singles charts and massive hits. stop being weird.

so, just to be clear, you're arguing that popular records is not even a "conceivable category" that could be taken into account when judging a musician's legacy?

>i'm not hating or being argumentative. are you really
>pretending hit songs--whether on the radio, in the streets or
>the club--isn't a viable category to discuss? in any popular
>genre of music, whenever great artists are discussed, they
>talk about singles charts and massive hits. stop being weird.


Even if Nas had NO GREAT singles, he'd still be top 5
all-time, because he is strong in just about every other
relevant category.

Your argument is like like saying Wilt Chamberlain isn't
one of the best players ever because he didn't hit
free throws. That's wrong because its wrong.


But to make matters worse for you:

Nas actually *does* have good singles.

Even better--almost NO RAPPER consistently has as good
*street* singles as Nas.

So even if you're bullshit category is right, you're
still wrong.


>so, just to be clear, you're arguing that popular records is
>not even a "conceivable category" that could be taken into
>account when judging a musician's legacy?

No, I am arguing that you being mad is a conceivable
category, though.




----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

first you said hit records wasn't a "conceivable category."
now you say it is.

so we're in agreement.

>first you said hit records wasn't a "conceivable category."
>now you say it is.

That's actually not what I said, but I'd shapeshift
if I was you too.

I said that even if it *was*, you're *still* wrong.

>so we're in agreement.

That you mad? Sure.

----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

never change.

you actually did totally misunderstand what he said.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

his original post said nas is the best in "every conceivable category."

i said hit singles is a "conceivable category."

he said "he is strong in just about every other relevant category."

so we're in agreement that hit singles is a conceivable category. i wasn't even talking about nas really, just criteria.

>you actually did totally misunderstand what he said.

And there is no way to agree with him, because
he's wrong even by his own definition:

If you think singles are a key characteristic
in determining a top 5 MCee, Nas is still top 5.



----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>If you think singles are a key characteristic
>in determining a top 5 MCee, Nas is still top 5.

I mean, he's no M.I.A., but to suggest that
lack of singles disqualifies him from top 5
status is simply false.





----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

just said it's a "conceivable category" for ranking someone.

>just said it's a "conceivable category" for ranking someone.

I said that "albums sales" is far more relevant, since
album sales are the aim, and singles are only relevant
because they push the artist to the public so that the
public buys albums. Albums are the currency in music.
Not debatable and has nothing to do with Nas.

By the album sale standards, Nas has sold between
pretty good and great his whole career.

You manufactured the singles argument because you mad
and thought it might be a way to discredit Nas.


Even using your bullshit singles argument, Nas still
wins, because:

a) He actually does have some solid singles with some
general appeal


b) NO ONE releases successful street singles like Nas.



So you're wrong for like, 14 reasons.




----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

even w/ that, he's not really on my personal list