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Subject: "In retrospect, how much of a pass did we give Kanye as an MC early on?" Previous topic | Next topic
CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 11:12 AM

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"In retrospect, how much of a pass did we give Kanye as an MC early on?"


  

          

This question comes from a conversation I had with a friend of mine about the Big Sean album.

I like the album for the most part, but am pretty lukewarm on Big Sean as an MC. I tend to think he's average at best, yet somehow made an album of mostly good songs.

My friend replied that Big Sean is no worse than Kanye was when he broke in, and yet people sort of turned a blind eye to his lack of mic skills.

I went back and listened to College Dropout and Kanye is downright terrible on a lot of it. He has some nice lines, but his flow, his delivery, his overall presence on the mic is pretty lukewarm.

Yet when that shit dropped, it wasn't a common criticism. I sure as shit didn't feel it.

Was this because he was seen as a producer, so expectations were low? We were so enamored with the shift his album brought to the game that we happily ignored his abilities? Were the beats so nice we would've accepted anything over them?

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Really? I remember people being very conscious of his lack of mic skills...
Sep 28th 2011
1
RE: Really? I remember people being very conscious of his lack of mic sk...
Sep 28th 2011
2
Sure...
Sep 28th 2011
11
well that's the end of that.
Sep 28th 2011
17
i think your friend needs to get the wax out of his ears.
Sep 28th 2011
3
I sort of think he's right
Sep 28th 2011
4
people always critisized kanye as an MC.
Sep 28th 2011
5
Kanye's rapping is his strongest quality.
Sep 30th 2011
37
      I laughed.
Sep 30th 2011
38
           *shrug*.....I laugh at how he needs co-producers all the time.
Sep 30th 2011
41
                Hahaha - touche.
Sep 30th 2011
42
RE: In retrospect, how much of a pass did we give Kanye as an MC early o...
Sep 28th 2011
6
Kanye is appealing in a way that gives him a pass
Sep 28th 2011
7
I like this answer
Sep 28th 2011
10
RE: I like this answer
Sep 28th 2011
15
Yea, this makes complete sense.
Sep 28th 2011
13
College drop-IN
Sep 28th 2011
8
The old heads like me complained about it
Sep 28th 2011
9
It's All In The Music
Sep 28th 2011
12
I didn't give him a pass, Kanye has always been engaging.
Sep 28th 2011
14
RE: In retrospect, how much of a pass did we give Kanye as an MC early o...
Sep 28th 2011
16
didn't then, don't now-fuck it
Sep 28th 2011
18
you guys are bugging
Sep 28th 2011
19
that's why i can't understand why people say it's his best LP
Sep 28th 2011
20
I'm sorry, at this point...
Sep 28th 2011
21
or, at this point anyone cysing his mic skills has garbage taste
Sep 28th 2011
23
RE: or, at this point anyone cysing his mic skills has garbage taste
Sep 30th 2011
35
      the semen on your chin drowns you're ability to be objective
Sep 30th 2011
39
           RE: the semen on your chin drowns you're ability to be objective
Sep 30th 2011
43
           and your initial statement proved why nobody should take yours seriously
Sep 30th 2011
47
           LMAO
Sep 30th 2011
46
I'm a better rapper than Kanye
Sep 28th 2011
24
      RE: I'm a better rapper than Kanye
Sep 30th 2011
34
      Post some of your songs
Sep 30th 2011
40
      leeeeet's hear em n/m
Sep 30th 2011
48
           I'm going to post up the entire album at once
Oct 01st 2011
50
                how convenient
Oct 01st 2011
51
                     good to know you're waiting
Oct 01st 2011
53
It was everything. 1. Production 2. Content, which was waaay diff from
Sep 28th 2011
22
You take an L for admitting to liking Big Sean
Sep 28th 2011
25
RE: You take an L for admitting to liking Big Sean
Sep 28th 2011
29
pass? that was the main criticism ppl had about him early on
Sep 28th 2011
26
Hahaha - I totally support this.
Sep 28th 2011
27
But technical MC skills aren't everything
Sep 28th 2011
28
this isn't about having technical skills. it's about skills.
Sep 28th 2011
30
i was relieved because he started out a wack rapper
Sep 28th 2011
31
his mixtapes were better than CD
Sep 29th 2011
32
he's just above average at his best
Sep 29th 2011
33
no pass at all, just the right songs, right image and attitude timing
Sep 30th 2011
36
ppl didn't want him to rap cuz they wanted him to make beats
Sep 30th 2011
44
It was all timing brother
Sep 30th 2011
45
It's the records, man.
Oct 01st 2011
49
he had some hit or miss songs, but then he also had songs like this
Oct 01st 2011
52
Kanye has personality and it shows in his music, Big Sean imo...
Oct 01st 2011
54

Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20498 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 11:17 AM

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1. "Really? I remember people being very conscious of his lack of mic skills..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Sep-28-11 11:17 AM by Brew

          

at that time, and with good reason.

NOW though? People give him a pass and he ain't much better. He's improved for sure, don't get me wrong. But he's still not even close to a top tier MC yet people talk about him in GOAT conversations and shit. Makes my head hurt.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 11:21 AM

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2. "RE: Really? I remember people being very conscious of his lack of mic sk..."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

>at that time, and with good reason.

Perhaps I turned a blind eye to it, or thought they were haters so dismissed it, but I really didn't see this a whole lot.

>NOW though? People give him a pass and he ain't much better.
>He's improved for sure, don't get me wrong. But he's still not
>even close to a top tier MC yet people talk about him in GOAT
>conversations and shit. Makes my head hurt.

I think Kanye is MUCH better. Like, not even comparable. Top 10 doing it right now good.

As far as the GOAT stuff, MC wise, nah, but his discography is pretty incredible and that counts for something, no?

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Sep-28-11 11:52 AM

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11. "Sure..."
In response to Reply # 2


          

his discography speaks for itself. I was speaking of people who claim he's a GOAT MC specifically, not his overall body of work.

He's nowhere close to anyone on the list of greatest MCs. But hiphop artists and producers? He's pretty high on both those lists.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Sep-28-11 02:31 PM

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17. "well that's the end of that. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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Wed Sep-28-11 11:22 AM

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3. "i think your friend needs to get the wax out of his ears."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>
>My friend replied that Big Sean is no worse than Kanye was
>when he broke in
>

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
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Wed Sep-28-11 11:24 AM

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4. "I sort of think he's right"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

They're at the very least in the same ballpark. Kanye had better and more creative song ideas, but his execution left a lot to be desired early on.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
15139 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 11:29 AM

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5. "people always critisized kanye as an MC."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

most people would admit that he's gotten better,
but a lot of people still think he's pretty terrible.


kanye definitely doesn't get a pass.

even folks that like him
will admit that actually rhyming is his weakest link.

  

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third_i_vision
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Fri Sep-30-11 01:16 PM

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37. "Kanye's rapping is his strongest quality."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>even folks that like him
>will admit that actually rhyming is his weakest link.

I only ride for about 25% of his catalog, but he's one of the best MCs in the game right now.

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Sep-30-11 01:26 PM

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38. "I laughed."
In response to Reply # 37


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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third_i_vision
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41. "*shrug*.....I laugh at how he needs co-producers all the time."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

Different strokes, I suppose.

Bowls
http://twitter.com/Bowls615

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Sep-30-11 05:11 PM

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42. "Hahaha - touche."
In response to Reply # 41


          

I just can't help but laugh a little bit at the thought of his rapping being his strength.

And in his defense on the boards, most producers have co-producers. I think his vision, work ethic, and creativity is what sets him apart as far as production is concerned. So can he do it all himself? No, he needs co-producers. But I think the vision is mostly his, which is impressive to me.

Just my 2 cents. Like you said, different strokes.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 11:29 AM

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6. "RE: In retrospect, how much of a pass did we give Kanye as an MC early o..."
In response to Reply # 0


          


>Was this because he was seen as a producer, so expectations
>were low?


Correct answer^^^^^^

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

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dalecooper
Member since Apr 07th 2006
3164 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 11:30 AM

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7. "Kanye is appealing in a way that gives him a pass"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for sometimes being not actually that great of an MC. That was especially true on "College Dropout" where his technical skill was lower than it is now, but his appeal as a personality and a voice was higher. I don't feel like going into depth on the subject, but that's where he has always stood for me. Perhaps consciously or perhaps not, he has always maximized his questionable skills by making music and operating in a style that doesn't seem to cry out for awesome, technical MCing.

--

  

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Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19850 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 11:44 AM

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10. "I like this answer"
In response to Reply # 7


          

>for sometimes being not actually that great of an MC. That
>was especially true on "College Dropout" where his technical
>skill was lower than it is now, but his appeal as a
>personality and a voice was higher. I don't feel like going
>into depth on the subject, but that's where he has always
>stood for me. Perhaps consciously or perhaps not, he has
>always maximized his questionable skills by making music and
>operating in a style that doesn't seem to cry out for awesome,
>technical MCing.

Whatever he lacked in technical skill and mechanics he MORE than made up for it with personality, humor, and creativity. So much so that I'd rather listen to Kanye rap, then or now, more than almost anybody else you can name, past or present, mainstream or underground, because I am entertained.


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

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Thanes1975
Member since Aug 03rd 2011
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Wed Sep-28-11 02:05 PM

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15. "RE: I like this answer"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Those are the best 2 answers on the post. I agree 100%. Kanye personality and passion made you forget about technical skills. Tupac was kind of like that.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Sep-28-11 11:54 AM

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13. "Yea, this makes complete sense."
In response to Reply # 7
Wed Sep-28-11 11:54 AM by Brew

          

I agree.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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cbk
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8. "College drop-IN"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Sep-28-11 11:36 AM by cbk

          

I always thought kanye had witty and clever lines. And he had a unique perspective and good subject matter. but the execution wasn't there...at first. By the time Graduation came out I though his delivery was perfected. Or his PT editing got better! But now I like how he leaves the mistakes in and moves on. Lots of personality there.

D'ANGELO beat tape PART 2: https://chrisp.bandcamp.com/album/dangelo-beat-tape-2020

IPHONE LP2 “A beatmaker who loved” https://music.apple.com/us/album/a-beatmaker-who-loved/1473644375

  

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k_orr
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Wed Sep-28-11 11:41 AM

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9. "The old heads like me complained about it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Yet when that shit dropped, it wasn't a common criticism. I
>sure as shit didn't feel it.

But old heads are irrelevant.

And young heads didn't grow up with the Lord Finesse, Big L's, Mad Skillz, and other punchline/battle rappers of the time.

one
k orr

  

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makaveli
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Wed Sep-28-11 11:53 AM

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12. "It's All In The Music"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

people forgave his terrible mic skills because his beats were so good. i still don't think kanye is a really good rapper, he's just average to me.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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micMajestic
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Wed Sep-28-11 12:11 PM

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14. "I didn't give him a pass, Kanye has always been engaging."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

His voice and delivery make me want to hear what he has to say.

  

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Mr Tan
Member since Feb 16th 2009
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Wed Sep-28-11 02:18 PM

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16. "RE: In retrospect, how much of a pass did we give Kanye as an MC early o..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

>This question comes from a conversation I had with a friend
>of mine about the Big Sean album.
>
>I like the album for the most part, but am pretty lukewarm on
>Big Sean as an MC. I tend to think he's average at best, yet
>somehow made an album of mostly good songs.
>
>My friend replied that Big Sean is no worse than Kanye was
>when he broke in, and yet people sort of turned a blind eye to
>his lack of mic skills.
>
>I went back and listened to College Dropout and Kanye is
>downright terrible on a lot of it. He has some nice lines, but
>his flow, his delivery, his overall presence on the mic is
>pretty lukewarm.
>
>Yet when that shit dropped, it wasn't a common criticism. I
>sure as shit didn't feel it.
>
>Was this because he was seen as a producer, so expectations
>were low? We were so enamored with the shift his album brought
>to the game that we happily ignored his abilities? Were the
>beats so nice we would've accepted anything over them?

I gave 'ye a pass because he was a very engaging MC.

  

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Garhart Poppwell
Member since Nov 28th 2008
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Wed Sep-28-11 06:50 PM

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18. "didn't then, don't now-fuck it"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

__________________________________________
CHOP-THESE-BITCHES!!!!
------------------------------------
Garhart Ivanhoe Poppwell
Un-OK'd moderator for The Lesson and Make The Music (yes, I do's work up in here, and in your asscrease if you run foul of this

  

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Zarathuckya
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Wed Sep-28-11 07:18 PM

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19. "you guys are bugging"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Rapping is not just about superscientifical testicle majestical big word saying, similies and metaphors. That is not the sign of a good rapper. And when it's overdone it's corny.

A rapper who says "like" a million times in one song is using that as a crutch. He's going line for line instead of song for song, concept for concept. Therin lies the difference

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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Wed Sep-28-11 07:43 PM

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20. "that's why i can't understand why people say it's his best LP"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's my least favorite. i rarely play any cuts off it.

****************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

"Dude just seems like he's been chosen for some reason. Maybe he did a backspin for Oprah or something." micMajestic

http://www.discogs.com/user/buhloone

  

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G_The_SP
Member since Dec 12th 2005
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Wed Sep-28-11 08:34 PM

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21. "I'm sorry, at this point..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

..anyone denying Kanye's mic skills is just being a bitter ass hater. That man got talent flowing out of his ass like a diarrhea. Niggas aren't deaf, they can hear what the fuck he's saying, they just want to be the pessimistic voice of descent. It's one thing to dislike someone's music or to have it not be your cup of Lipton, but don't say the person isn't talented just because it isn't your personal taste. You wouldn't want people denying you of your talents and abilities unfairly, would you? As a society and as a culture, we seriously need to learn to stop being so damn judgmental. Because there's not one nigga posting on here i know that can see Kanye talent-wise. That is all.

~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~
http://soundcloud.com/griff-x
http://atribecalledx.com
http://twitter.com/IamGriffX

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Wed Sep-28-11 09:39 PM

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23. "or, at this point anyone cysing his mic skills has garbage taste"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

>..anyone denying Kanye's mic skills is just being a bitter
>ass hater.

see how that works? people who view his rhyme skills as anything above decent have terrible, terrible taste in rappers. it's a low standard, like an infant mesmerized by pretty lights. people who puff up his average (at best) mic abilities are the kind of people eddie murphy is talking about here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0x_dFMnZVI

>That man got talent flowing out of his ass like a
>diarrhea.

often times, yes- but that's the beats, not the rhymes.

>Niggas aren't deafthey can hear what the fuck he's
>saying,

no, we're not, and what he's saying is usually lame, forced, over-emphasized-for-super-dramatic-effect nonsense.

>they just want to be the pessimistic voice of descent.

which could be said of the legions of knob slobbing stans with terrible taste who think he's anything above decent.

>It's one thing to dislike someone's music or to have it not be
>your cup of Lipton, but don't say the person isn't talented
>just because it isn't your personal taste.

oh, you're inventing an argument to argue against. quaint.

You wouldn't want
>people denying you of your talents and abilities unfairly,
>would you?

i would you want people to give their honest assessment and let the chips fall where they may; remember, one mans trash is another mans treasure and vice versa. like it or not, "talent" is a vague term and art is always in the eye of the beholder.

As a society and as a culture, we seriously need to
>learn to stop being so damn judgmental.

or... some of us could learn to understand that others may not share the same shitty standard. it would be one thing if you could acknowledge his many flaws and faults, but NOPE! you're presenting kanye the mighty, bulletproof genius over here. come on.

>Because there's not
>one nigga posting on here i know that can see Kanye
>talent-wise. That is all.

oh, goody, this age old foolishness. this is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand- people's personal opinion regarding kanye's rapping ability. i guess if you eat a meal prepared by someone who is regarded as a world-class chef that tastes like shit to *your* tastes, you really can't say it tastes like shit since you yourself are not a world class chef. right?

  

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G_The_SP
Member since Dec 12th 2005
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Fri Sep-30-11 12:43 PM

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35. "RE: or, at this point anyone cysing his mic skills has garbage taste"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Your repulsive bias overshadows any rationality.

~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~
http://soundcloud.com/griff-x
http://atribecalledx.com
http://twitter.com/IamGriffX

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Fri Sep-30-11 02:55 PM

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39. "the semen on your chin drowns you're ability to be objective"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

  

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G_The_SP
Member since Dec 12th 2005
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Fri Sep-30-11 05:31 PM

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43. "RE: the semen on your chin drowns you're ability to be objective"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

And that rebuttal proves why i should not take your opinions seriously.

~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~
http://soundcloud.com/griff-x
http://atribecalledx.com
http://twitter.com/IamGriffX

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
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Fri Sep-30-11 10:08 PM

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47. "and your initial statement proved why nobody should take yours seriously"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>And that rebuttal proves why i should not take your opinions
>seriously.

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18010 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 09:25 PM

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46. "LMAO"
In response to Reply # 39


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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Anonymous
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Wed Sep-28-11 09:45 PM

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24. "I'm a better rapper than Kanye"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Because there's not
>one nigga posting on here i know that can see Kanye
>talent-wise. That is all.

he's by far a better producer and I definitely appreciate his creativity whether I like what he comes up with or not.

I won't comment on the "talent" thing because he has the money to make his product sound however he wants (not to mention the guest producers he can dictate) where as people on here are fucking with some ol' home studios.

but MC-wise, I'm definitely better than Ye and I'm sure there are others on here as well that can rap better than he can.

  

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G_The_SP
Member since Dec 12th 2005
2413 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 12:41 PM

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34. "RE: I'm a better rapper than Kanye"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Prove it.

~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~* * *~
http://soundcloud.com/griff-x
http://atribecalledx.com
http://twitter.com/IamGriffX

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 03:05 PM

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40. "Post some of your songs"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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bills
Member since Feb 17th 2007
1178 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 11:47 PM

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48. "leeeeet's hear em n/m"
In response to Reply # 24


          

  

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Anonymous
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22512 posts
Sat Oct-01-11 09:16 AM

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50. "I'm going to post up the entire album at once"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

I've been working on something in conjunction with these Beat Offs but no song is fully mixed yet.

I may focus on one or two joints to post first and then do the rest of the album but people will definitely hear them.

I'm definitely not going to post something I don't think is ready though.

  

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thegodcam
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
41181 posts
Sat Oct-01-11 09:21 AM

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51. "how convenient"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

>I've been working on something in conjunction with these Beat
>Offs but no song is fully mixed yet.
>
>I may focus on one or two joints to post first and then do the
>rest of the album but people will definitely hear them.
>
>I'm definitely not going to post something I don't think is
>ready though.

*******************************************************
i will not let finite disappointment undermine infinite hope
- Cory Booker

Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans always win
- Gary Lineker

  

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Anonymous
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Sat Oct-01-11 10:00 AM

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53. "good to know you're waiting"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

nm

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
51978 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 08:54 PM

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22. "It was everything. 1. Production 2. Content, which was waaay diff from"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

mainstream. 3. Jay affiliation 4. Overall Hype

And even with that...as folks said, he was criticized as a rapper. But most technical and "skilled" rappers weren't "admitting to being self conscious" or trying to make the club chant "Jesus walks" so those type songs put him way ahead of the rappity rappers who were out.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Anonymous
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22512 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 09:46 PM

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25. "You take an L for admitting to liking Big Sean"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and can you please change that weird ass fucking avy you've had for the past 5+ years my man?

even you have to think that shit looks stupid at this point.

  

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CMcMurtry
Member since Nov 28th 2002
17053 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 10:34 PM

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29. "RE: You take an L for admitting to liking Big Sean"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

I think I said I don't like Big Sean as an artist but like a lot of the songs, which I realize is irrational.

>and can you please change that weird ass fucking avy you've
>had for the past 5+ years my man?
>
>even you have to think that shit looks stupid at this point.

Uh, no. Fuck are you, the OKP police?

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 09:56 PM

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26. "pass? that was the main criticism ppl had about him early on"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

imo he's getting more of a pass NOW then he did then
at least back then his songs with wack lyrics were catchy

~~~~~~

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
20498 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 10:13 PM

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27. "Hahaha - I totally support this."
In response to Reply # 26
Wed Sep-28-11 10:14 PM by Brew

          

>at least back then his songs with wack lyrics were catchy

So very true.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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zuma1986
Member since Dec 18th 2006
9085 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 10:23 PM

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28. "But technical MC skills aren't everything"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Kanye created a fully developed character and talked about things that ppl could relate to or enjoy. As well as created music that hinted to a previous era that mainstream hip hop was so far away from. So although he lacked skills he still kept it interesting and enjoyable. I can appreciate rappers with just lots of technical skills but I can't say I'm running to hear them too often.

And yes I know a lot of ppl will say "not having technical MC skills is what's killing hip hop nowadays" and that's not true at all. I'll gladly take Kanye over Canibus or ODB over Big L, b/c talent doesn't mean you can make great music. It's not a skills competition, it's whoever can hold my interest the most and the longest competition. The best rappers in my opinion are the ones that have lots of technical skills and have a fully developed character (Nas, KRS-One, Common). There's no point in having skills if you can't use them effectively.

  

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Cold Truth
Member since Jan 28th 2004
41685 posts
Wed Sep-28-11 10:40 PM

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30. "this isn't about having technical skills. it's about skills. "
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

you don't need to be super lyrical (c) big pun to be a dope mc
for example, biggie wasn't exactly complex on a technical level, he actually spit a very basic form. that basic form spit dope shit in lyrics and delivery.

sure, ye says shit people relate to, but so does kesha. white sorority bitches relate to that nonsense. being able to relate is always a plus but in the end, he's a fuckin cornball. his "swag" is so forced ye should have a rape case on his hands. massively overemphasized vocals, incredibly forced wordplay, and presents the very lowest common denominator of relating to the fans.

going back to biggie, who wasn't technically complex (oh god i hope the biggie stans don't take that as some kind of slight and bitch, so for the record let me say biggie was dope as fuck even if he is over rated, and THAT they can bitch about, but i digress), but his persona had actual depth that wasn't forced and cheap.

in other words, EVERYTHING about kanye as a rapper is an example of trying to damn hard. the best make it look effortless, and he doesn't. every last ounce of effort is apparent. i don't front on his work ethic, in fact that is the one thing i admire. if anything he's the epitome of a guy who refuses to lose and wins against all odds against him. he's still flawed as fuck but that work ethic is one thing that can't be denied. he's the hardest working man in hip hop- but he also has to be, because the raw talent isn't there so much as ample desire in fucking droves. THAT'S where ye's value as an artist shines as bright as any in the pantheon.

  

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dafriquan
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Wed Sep-28-11 10:43 PM

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31. "i was relieved because he started out a wack rapper"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

some of the early songs he tried to do or had guest features on, he was pretty wack.
by the time college dropout rolled around, i was just happy that he was now listenable because i was a fan of his production.

i don't blame jay-z for fronting on him initially. kanye must have sounded like an annoying little brother to him. which is why it is hilarious to see kanye outrap jay-z quite a few times on "watch the throne".

  

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nublax
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Thu Sep-29-11 04:16 AM

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32. "his mixtapes were better than CD"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I remember his mixtapes "Get Well Soon" and "I'm Good" getting him buzz around these parts.

Timing was a big thing too. It was right around the time that the nag champa buildings started to crumble. And Kanye was right there with lines like "first rapper with a Benz and a backpack."

It's unexplainable. He got "over" back then with the same things that keep him a star today. It's just on a larger scale.

____________

"If I ever run into any of you bums on the street corner, just let's pretend we never met before."

  

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Reuben
Member since Mar 13th 2006
1855 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 04:55 AM

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33. "he's just above average at his best"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

as a rapper

_______________________________________
When discourse of Blackness is not connected to efforts to promote collective black self determinism
it becomes simply another recourse appropriated by the colonizer

http://hardboiledbabesanddarkchocolate.tumblr.co

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 12:44 PM

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36. "no pass at all, just the right songs, right image and attitude timing"
In response to Reply # 0


          

because he started out of the gate slow and it took a while for folks to warm up to him as a MC and he is just ok at best, however the way he presented his work and the attitude of saying this or that drew people in.

he ain't then or now going to ever be seen as a Great or Good Rapper per se, but in his defense not to many people are ever going to say they out worked him either.

he is smart enough to know what is going to work and what isn't.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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TRENDone
Charter member
15616 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 05:37 PM

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44. "ppl didn't want him to rap cuz they wanted him to make beats"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he came out at a time when hip-hop producers were just as popular and in the forefront as the rappers/artists they produced for. timbaland, missy, dre, neptunes, lil jon, trackmasters, storch, etc. if kanye got a pass, it's cuz he was a prolific hip-hop producer.

____________________________________________________________________

San Diego State's holy trinity of sports:
Kawhi Leonard
Marshall Faulk
Tony Gwynn (RIP)

#Aztec4Life

  

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lakai336
Member since Aug 17th 2009
1306 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 06:31 PM

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45. "It was all timing brother"
In response to Reply # 0


          

If there were no Kanye there would be no Big Sean, no Kid Cudi, no Drake, no Wale, no anybody who does that every man bullshit on a mainstream level.

It was never about the MCing, for anyone, be it the casual listener who loved him, the older hip-hop head who loved him or the hipster set (i.e pitchfork and co) who have loved him from the day he first arrived. It was always about his subject matter and personality, as far as Kanye the rapper goes. As for Producer, we don't even gotta question it, he has a good ear and made the kind of beats that a lot of hip hop heads and casual listeners alike appreciated.

Don't get it twisted here either, I'm not going to say he was the originator, he's more like the guy that made it all appealing to a large audience. Before Kanye, plenty of rappers occasionally addressed insecurity issues, working and struggling, wanting to make it and were honest and like-able (he wasn't so cocky yet). However none of them ever made a "All Falls Down" or "Through The Wire".

Remember the times brother, 2004. In that era he really stood out as non-gangsta, non-hood rapper. He used that to his advantage. Eminem did it when he came out by running with that psycho/drug/self-hatred shit. Kanye rolled with content anyone could relate to and still rapped well enough and made good enough beats to make it listenable. Most importantly, he was the first to do it on the level that he did, where it wasn't strictly for the heads or strictly for the purists, everybody loved that album then. It was really a game changer.

I mean shit, here we are 7 years later, and we're still feeling his influence. Like it or love it, the hood shit died off, the gangsta shit died off, and rappers who rap from middle class perspectives are getting the most hits. It's to the point where someone like Freddie Gibbs is the odd-ball in 2011 (I like him and think he does the gangsta shit exceptionally well).

That's really what it came down to. I mean we all know damn well that people in the underground did it better and we know that other mainstream rappers made attempts here and there to address the same topics. Thing is, Kanye was the first persona to somehow actively remain relevant on both sides of things, he was an instant superstar and yet he did so with an album talking about shit that related more to the every man then to the superstar.

  

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Ketchums
Member since Jan 30th 2005
3417 posts
Sat Oct-01-11 02:38 AM

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49. "It's the records, man."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's that simple.

He wasn't a technically skilled emcee, but he had everything else down pat: he was able to tell a story (which some of the most "technically skilled" emcees can't do at ALL), he was able to evoke emotion, he capably covered subjects that people were passionate about, his production was on point, he had charisma/humor, and most of all, he just represented a sincerity that people were ready to stand behind.

Every single one of those qualities shows on the songs - especially on the singles. The single selection for College Dropout was PERFECT. He didn't need technical skills, because he had literally every other category covered. There are more talented emcees who make much less memorable songs, and that's why he gets a pass.

----

https://weketchum.contently.com/

  

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Noah Truth
Member since Apr 13th 2010
568 posts
Sat Oct-01-11 09:58 AM

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52. "he had some hit or miss songs, but then he also had songs like this"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Oct-01-11 10:00 AM by Noah Truth

  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6L01WciMhE

and IMO, he spit harder on this than anything else he's done to date (not counting late registration of course).

***

"I am a human being becoming, help me become."

  

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kysersozey
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13602 posts
Sat Oct-01-11 10:03 AM

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54. "Kanye has personality and it shows in his music, Big Sean imo..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

has NO personality at all. And I'm finding this in many artist now,
and not just in hip hop. Big Sean should prolly just ghost write.

*
*
*

  

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