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Subject: "Wait, why would anybody buy another record ever again..." Previous topic | Next topic
Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Sep-13-11 01:20 PM

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"Wait, why would anybody buy another record ever again..."


  

          

when they are mostly on subscription services like spotify. I never had a subscription service before but I bought spotify because of all of the hype. the only feature that has really impressed me with spotify is the feature that has been available on subscription services before spotify. Specifically, Watch the Throne and The Carter IV were available on Spotify within a couple of weeks of their release. It makes me regretful that I bought Watch the Throne when it came out.

How can album sales still be a metric for measuring an albums popularity when then songs are freely streamable on subscription services within a couple of weeks?

Fuck a billboard, with the help of the interwebs couldn't we come with a number for all the times that a song was played on youtube, subscription service, scrobbled on last.fm, ec/?

Help me understand the music industry in 2011.

**********
the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Life support
Sep 13th 2011
1
It doesn't make sense though!!!!
Sep 13th 2011
3
i thought this was actually abt vinyl
Sep 13th 2011
2
I went to Scratch DJ Academy
Sep 13th 2011
4
Same here. n/m
Sep 13th 2011
38
Well personally because I don't ''trust'' this streaming idea
Sep 13th 2011
5
Yep.
Sep 13th 2011
6
Streaming is the green choice.
Sep 13th 2011
11
      lol you're probably right and I got nothing for you
Sep 13th 2011
31
I never liked that people thought they could "own" music
Sep 13th 2011
7
No... If I paid for it, it is MY copy.
Sep 13th 2011
8
Not legally...
Sep 13th 2011
9
      'Entitled'? ...Fall back, son.
Sep 13th 2011
10
      I gotta say, dude managed to find a new angle to dispute in this post
Sep 13th 2011
17
           Ya know? I mean what the fuck?
Sep 13th 2011
20
                hahah.. yeah dude is way off on this one.
Sep 13th 2011
23
                     i think the poster is getting to a more abstract point,
Sep 14th 2011
45
                          The composition belongs to them. Not every copy of the record
Sep 14th 2011
46
                          The composition, the arrangement, the performance, AND the recording
Sep 14th 2011
88
                          Thank you.
Sep 14th 2011
83
                               LOL You literal like a motherfucker.
Sep 14th 2011
87
                                    You just don't think about it the same way that I do.
Sep 14th 2011
89
                                         NEWSFLASH! That little trashcan icon on your desktop?
Sep 14th 2011
90
                                              You're the one confusing the difference between
Sep 14th 2011
91
                                                   No, you're the one who thinks a folder labelled 'My Music'
Sep 14th 2011
93
                                                        oh, yeah, right, that was a thing I said
Sep 14th 2011
94
      Wrong.
Sep 14th 2011
98
           hey
Sep 14th 2011
99
           LMAO.
Sep 14th 2011
100
                same as it ever is, man. nm
Sep 14th 2011
101
           I didn't say it never happens
Sep 14th 2011
104
                you're STILL wrong.
Sep 15th 2011
107
                     Wow, you're trying REAAAALLLY hard
Sep 15th 2011
109
                          Seems like you two are arguing about two different things
Sep 15th 2011
110
                               But who is saying this?
Sep 15th 2011
112
                                    You are correct.
Sep 15th 2011
114
                                    man.
Sep 15th 2011
118
where my killah tape at?
Sep 13th 2011
42
because i aint got wifi/3g like that
Sep 13th 2011
12
^
Sep 13th 2011
14
remember when those who had DSL/Cable in the days of 56k
Sep 13th 2011
15
Yea buying physical copies will be obsolete in a decade.
Sep 13th 2011
13
oh really?
Sep 13th 2011
16
you can delve into specifics and nitpick all you want
Sep 13th 2011
22
      Yeah... Let's not talk about 'specifics.' That might be too realistic.
Sep 13th 2011
26
           Im not gunna lie...and say that sales weren't a signifigant portion
Sep 13th 2011
28
                I expressed the point I objected to.
Sep 13th 2011
30
                     There's always the lucrative t-shirt route
Sep 13th 2011
32
                     oh yes... can't forget about that!
Sep 13th 2011
34
                     they know not what they speak
Sep 13th 2011
33
                     RE: I expressed the point I objected to.
Sep 14th 2011
92
                     I just rented out O2 Arena tomorrow night...you in?
Sep 15th 2011
119
Go home and cook rice n/m
Sep 13th 2011
39
RE: Yea buying physical copies will be obsolete in a decade.
Sep 14th 2011
97
I don't know what else to spend money on, LOL...
Sep 13th 2011
18
LOL only a European could say something like this:
Sep 13th 2011
27
      lol...i love that attitude
Sep 14th 2011
84
           I... admire it.
Sep 14th 2011
86
because vinyl is fucking AWESOME!!!!!
Sep 13th 2011
19
until lossless streaming is the norm, i won't be switching anytime soon.
Sep 13th 2011
21
Pretty sure I can't get Spotify in my car
Sep 13th 2011
24
Smartphone > 3/4g > Spotify app + subscription > AUX input
Sep 13th 2011
29
      RE: Yeah, because that's easier than. . .
Sep 13th 2011
36
           C'mon
Sep 13th 2011
37
                RE: If you don't take care of your shit, that's not the CD's fault.
Sep 13th 2011
40
                You have the same kind of problems with anything
Sep 13th 2011
44
So you want the music - you just don't want to pay for it?
Sep 13th 2011
25
digital downloads NEVER sound as good as vinyl or even cd's
Sep 13th 2011
35
some people's music taste and consumer habits don't change
Sep 13th 2011
41
plus, the price of records going up to make up for that loss.
Sep 13th 2011
43
we're supposed to buy records b/c we feel guilty about not buying them.
Sep 14th 2011
47
Or maybe some people just like buying/owning records.
Sep 14th 2011
48
yeah, they want us to.
Sep 14th 2011
49
      enh.
Sep 14th 2011
50
           I like vinyl, CD's mp3's, streams, etc...
Sep 14th 2011
53
           Napster happened like 10 years ago.
Sep 14th 2011
54
           I didn't say labels = them.
Sep 14th 2011
57
                Acts mostly seem to be giving it away for free these days
Sep 14th 2011
59
                     okay, guy.
Sep 14th 2011
64
                          nah, it's just this:
Sep 14th 2011
65
                               yeah, my initial reply was obviously facetious.
Sep 14th 2011
67
                                    my initial response was also facetious.
Sep 14th 2011
68
                                         and here we are.
Sep 14th 2011
69
i snorted here:
Sep 14th 2011
51
Bullshit
Sep 14th 2011
55
      its not a perfect analogy
Sep 14th 2011
56
           Your cow, your duty to safeguard it.
Sep 14th 2011
58
           the fence in this case cant be put up again
Sep 14th 2011
60
                i value convenience.
Sep 14th 2011
63
           RE: its not a perfect analogy
Sep 14th 2011
62
                of course we want everything for free all the time.
Sep 14th 2011
66
                     True
Sep 14th 2011
75
                          and i agree about ppl affording their mp3 collections.
Sep 14th 2011
76
lmao
Sep 14th 2011
61
I could go on with a
Sep 14th 2011
52
RE: Wait, why would anybody buy another record ever again...
Sep 14th 2011
70
Rhapsody>>>>Spotify...
Sep 14th 2011
71
In my head I am building the perfect music App
Sep 14th 2011
72
i dig this.
Sep 14th 2011
73
That sounds good..
Sep 14th 2011
74
my friends music taste sucks. that might make me angry
Sep 14th 2011
77
I forgot Pandora Style music radio
Sep 14th 2011
78
i wouldn't put that in my dream app.
Sep 14th 2011
79
Pandora's done the best job of passively allowing me to discover new mus...
Sep 14th 2011
80
      Pandora is smarter than i expected with its selection...
Sep 14th 2011
96
What if they give their users their own radio shows
Sep 14th 2011
103
last.fm dropped the ball so hard
Sep 14th 2011
81
i thought you can upload to spotify?
Sep 14th 2011
82
      Not exactly.
Sep 14th 2011
85
i still buy vinyl...
Sep 14th 2011
95
eventually we will ask this about films and books too
Sep 14th 2011
102
I don't know, I'm mixed on that.
Sep 14th 2011
105
      E-readers (the black and white type) aren't hard on the eyes
Sep 15th 2011
108
      well im not talking about theatres
Sep 15th 2011
111
           why you think 3D is suddenly so popular (again)?
Sep 15th 2011
113
                yeah i know, 3d is like the last gasp to get bums on seats
Sep 15th 2011
115
                     not even Avatar?
Sep 15th 2011
116
                          yeah thats technically the best
Sep 15th 2011
117
All I Got To Say Is.....
Sep 15th 2011
106

imcvspl
Member since Mar 07th 2005
42137 posts
Tue Sep-13-11 01:23 PM

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1. "Life support"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Help me understand the music industry in 2011.


________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
http://concretesoundsystem.com
Mo'Nium - http://monium.tumblr.com/

RIP Nick Ashford - http://bit.ly/rfgMKh

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Sep-13-11 01:41 PM

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3. "It doesn't make sense though!!!!"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Look at the height of the old school music industry. In 1999, the music industry revenue was $14.6 billion/ in 2011, netflix made $791.5 million in one quarter. annualized that and its 3.156 billion dollars. That's the revenue of ONE company streaming music on a subscription basis. Feels like with company's competing to stream muisc, and people purchasing music, you can reach that number again.

IDK.

**********
the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

  

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Binlahab
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182569 posts
Tue Sep-13-11 01:36 PM

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2. "i thought this was actually abt vinyl"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

went to a house party where dude had a HUGE record collection...going thru his stacks & finding shit to play, the whole rigamarole of putting the record on, setting the needle etc was real cool

everyone was also sky high so that prolly contributed too


do or die

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Tue Sep-13-11 01:45 PM

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4. "I went to Scratch DJ Academy"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

and the old school DJs were describing all that went into djaying a party: Figuring out the crowd and what music they would want to hear, gathering those records, transporting those records to the party, hoping they had room for all the crates at the spot (I remember getting into parties for free because I carried crates) and taking all that ish home. Then mp3s and Sorato came along and every dj could show up at the party with every track they want on their laptop.

Just as easily could have been that question as well.

**********
the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

  

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johnbook
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65027 posts
Tue Sep-13-11 08:02 PM

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38. "Same here. n/m"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          




THE HOME OF BOOK-NESS:
http://www.thisisbooksmusic.com/
http://twitter.com/thisisjohnbook
http://www.facebook.com/book1


http://i32.tinypic.com/kbewp4.gif

  

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Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19850 posts
Tue Sep-13-11 02:06 PM

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5. "Well personally because I don't ''trust'' this streaming idea"
In response to Reply # 0


          

lol I know.

I've become old and stubborn at 29 but this whole idea that you "stream" whatever you want I just don't buy. I'm not feeling it. Not as a complete, wholesale replacement for me having the cd or vinyl.

Streaming is below mp3's for me.

It's cool as an app on your mobile or as a substitute when traveling. I love streaming with Netflix, but I still buy dvd's and blurays. In fact, if there's something I discover on Netflix, eventually I buy it for myself. To own. Not to stream from some f'n cloud where if the company goes belly-up or doesn't pay for a particular license, WHOOPS!, no more 'certain-movie-or-album' for you.

You've heard it all before, but I need a tangible, actual product. Yes, the music is what's matters most which is why I make exceptions if an artist I like goes strictly digital. But I prefer something I can call mine, not merely "access" to it.

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Sep-13-11 02:10 PM

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6. "Yep."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>You've heard it all before, but I need a tangible, actual
>product. Yes, the music is what's matters most which is why I
>make exceptions if an artist I like goes strictly digital. But
>I prefer something I can call mine, not merely "access" to it.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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DolphinTeef
Member since Oct 25th 2009
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Tue Sep-13-11 02:58 PM

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11. "Streaming is the green choice."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

http://zhiphopcleveland.com/files/2011/09/don-cheadle-captain-planet.png

  

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Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
19850 posts
Tue Sep-13-11 03:55 PM

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31. "lol you're probably right and I got nothing for you"
In response to Reply # 11


          

Hopefully my other save the planet actions and choices balance out my evil cd's, records, video games, and dvd's.
__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

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jamesL
Member since Nov 20th 2005
1377 posts
Tue Sep-13-11 02:21 PM

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7. "I never liked that people thought they could "own" music"
In response to Reply # 0


          

in the first place.

Like, the folder on your computer that says "My Music?" It's not your music! Someone else made it for you, and you merely have the privilege of listening to it. Maybe this change in the way we consume music will get rid of this 20th century delusion once and for all. It could even potentially change the way we look at copyright, while at the same time cutting down on "piracy." Actually, I'm sure this is already happening.

The only question is, can musicians make money this way?

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Sep-13-11 02:27 PM

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8. "No... If I paid for it, it is MY copy."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

There ain't no "privilege" involved. I shelled out hard-earned money for that copy and it is mine.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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jamesL
Member since Nov 20th 2005
1377 posts
Tue Sep-13-11 02:38 PM

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9. "Not legally..."
In response to Reply # 8


          

You can't play it in public or on the radio, make new copies, even for personal use, or even use any piece of it for any new work at all, regardless of whether it's commercially available or not. You have merely purchased the rights to listen to that music in private as many times as you'd like, until "your" copy wears out.

You know, it used to be you couldn't hear music unless someone played it for you...

I swear, modern humans think they're entitled to anything they want.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Sep-13-11 02:56 PM

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10. "'Entitled'? ...Fall back, son."
In response to Reply # 9
Tue Sep-13-11 02:58 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

That copy belongs to me. LEGALLY. I bought it.

The fact that there are limitations with regard to how I use the copy does not change the fact that as a material product, I bought it. It is MINE.

(By the way, I CAN play it in public and on the radio, and I do. I just can't make further copies of it.)

I'm not saying that I own the compositions or the mechanicals. But I own THAT copy that I paid for.

I didn't purchase "the rights to listen to it." I purchased a physical commodity which shall remain in my possession permanently.

If I don't call it "my copy," praytell: how should I describe it?

Look, dude: I have a pretty large record collection, including several rare records from private labels that no longer exist and whose masters have been lost. When labels want to reissue some of this music, they come to me master off MY copy of the record, which I bought. I've even had some instances where the label itself doesn't have the master or any copies of the record and so they come to me.

And you know what? They gotta pay me for the use of my record. Because while the MUSIC on the record may belong to them, the PHYSICAL OBJECT on which the music is stored is MINE. And there is no legal basis for them to come to me and say "Give us the record, because it's ours, we made it" etc

They made it and they sold it to me. I paid money for it that I could have used to feed my family.

Now it is MINE.

BY LAW!!!

This is simple commerce, commie.


_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Bombastic
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Tue Sep-13-11 03:15 PM

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17. "I gotta say, dude managed to find a new angle to dispute in this post"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

however it also happens to be a remarkably asinine one.

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a803?trk=hp-identity-name

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Sep-13-11 03:23 PM

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20. "Ya know? I mean what the fuck?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

How is this cat gonna tell me I don't own some shit I paid good money for, and that it is a "privilege" for me even to listen to it?

Which socialist commune do these people come from?

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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Tue Sep-13-11 03:34 PM

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23. "hahah.. yeah dude is way off on this one."
In response to Reply # 20


          

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
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Wed Sep-14-11 12:13 AM

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45. "i think the poster is getting to a more abstract point, "
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

being which, music belongs to the artists that wrote or crafted the song. now we could argue the practicality of the point of everyone having different music, but that's what i think the poster was getting at.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Wed Sep-14-11 07:15 AM

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46. "The composition belongs to them. Not every copy of the record"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

which is a commercial product that is manufactured and sold for profit.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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jamesL
Member since Nov 20th 2005
1377 posts
Wed Sep-14-11 01:53 PM

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88. "The composition, the arrangement, the performance, AND the recording"
In response to Reply # 46
Wed Sep-14-11 02:05 PM by jamesL

          

all belongs to whatever publishing and record company owns it.

You do NOT own the recording. No matter how many times you have played that record on the radio or in the club, no matter how many record companies have approached you for that record. You just don't. No matter how strongly you believe you do. That is what the law says.

Ain't nothing communist about that.

No, they cannot take your copy away from you, as long as that copy is a legal recording legally acquired. But if the court decision in a lawsuit case suddenly decides that a certain sample was not licensed properly, they can recall that record from the stores. It would be ridiculous for them to ask people who already bought it to send their copies back, but I wouldn't be surprised if a court also were to rule that it was legal for them to snatch your 1st print copy of Ready to Die from your hands and snap it in two when they saw you playing it in the club. I don't think there has ever been such a case, but it's a fun hypothetical situation to consider.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4823028.stm

  

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jamesL
Member since Nov 20th 2005
1377 posts
Wed Sep-14-11 12:47 PM

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83. "Thank you."
In response to Reply # 45


          

The only thing you own is a slab of vinyl. Owning the physical product gives you the illusion that you own the music as well. Regardless of how it my seem to you, you do not own the "music."

(With regards to playing it in public or on the radio, legally one has to license the mechanical rights, which are different from the master rights.)

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Wed Sep-14-11 01:41 PM

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87. "LOL You literal like a motherfucker."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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jamesL
Member since Nov 20th 2005
1377 posts
Wed Sep-14-11 01:57 PM

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89. "You just don't think about it the same way that I do."
In response to Reply # 87


          

To state the obvious.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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90. "NEWSFLASH! That little trashcan icon on your desktop?"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

NOT A REAL TRASHCAN


Shocking, I know... Team coverage at 11!

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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jamesL
Member since Nov 20th 2005
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Wed Sep-14-11 02:20 PM

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91. "You're the one confusing the difference between"
In response to Reply # 90


          

the reality and the representation. I'm trying to show you they are not the same, and different rules apply.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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93. "No, you're the one who thinks a folder labelled 'My Music'"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

means that the owner of the folder thinks they literally own the MUSIC as opposed to a facsimile of it.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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jamesL
Member since Nov 20th 2005
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Wed Sep-14-11 02:34 PM

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94. "oh, yeah, right, that was a thing I said"
In response to Reply # 93


          

well I guess ya got me, then!

  

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disco dj
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98. "Wrong. "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>You can't play it in public or on the radio,

You have merely purchased the rights to listen to
>that music in private as many times as you'd like, until
>"your" copy wears out.

WRONG.


How do you explain Club mixes or Extended DJ mixes ( which were released by the labels)? Not too many DJ's play records at home.

How do you explain the Billboard Club Play chart? Is there an exemption that allows radio to play records ( which they DIDN'T buy)?


Once you buy a record/CD/File/whatthefuckever it's YOURS. Period. You can do with it whatever you want.





______________



http://www.windimoto.com


http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

http://wallpapershi.net/wallpapers/2012/01/boba-fett-star-wars-star-wars-boba-fett-movie-anime-1080x1920.jpg

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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99. "hey"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGFwGwV1lZc

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disco dj
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100. "LMAO."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

What's good in the Hood?

Just passin troo before I hit the gym.


______________



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http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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101. "same as it ever is, man. nm"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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jamesL
Member since Nov 20th 2005
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104. "I didn't say it never happens"
In response to Reply # 98


          

I just said you have to get a license. Simply buying the record does not give you permission to play it in public or broadcast it over the radio. That's why there are representatives who go around to restaurants, bars, and clubs to try and get them to pay for a license. Usually they get told to fuck off and the place gets away with it, but that's the law.

Don't try and argue with me dude, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

  

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disco dj
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107. "you're STILL wrong."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

>I just said you have to get a license.


umm. no. The liscence thing is for BUSINESSES. and even THEN it's not strictly enforced. If it's enforced at all. There was talk of it a few years back, but how do you explain the fact that 99.9999999999% of nightclubs have DJ's and or bands. I'm a working DJ and I've NEVER had to present a liscence inANY venue I've played.


Simply buying the
>record does not give you permission to play it in public or
>broadcast it over the radio.

You're just wrong, face up to it.

That's why there are
>representatives who go around to restaurants, bars, and clubs
>to try and get them to pay for a license.

I just addressed that.

Usually they get
>told to fuck off and the place gets away with it, but that's
>the law.

and if it was the *law*, don't you think those same bars and restaurants would do it? Why risk losing your business over a license? You think they tell the liquor board or the health department to "fuck off"? No. Why? because those are enforcable laws that would result in major penalties. If not, then a loss of some type of license, i.e the right to see food or booze. At best, it's probably something ASCAP BMI and the others *want* people to do.

>


>Don't try and argue with me dude, you clearly don't know what
>you're talking about.

Actually, that would be YOU. And again, if the buyer of the record doesn't Own it or have the right to play it in public, why do labels put out Club and DJ mixes, Genius? ( let alone the gazillion DJ promos they ship out )Explain that.

Noe to your point, I can't duplicate the shit ( like THAT ever stopped anybody) or use it in the background of a show, etc. without paying for it. But if I bought it as a listener, I can pretty much do whatever the fuck I want to do with it.


______________



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http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

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jamesL
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109. "Wow, you're trying REAAAALLLY hard"
In response to Reply # 107
Thu Sep-15-11 09:12 AM by jamesL

          

Doesn't change anything, but nice try!

Here's how public performance music licensing REALLY works:

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/music-licensing3.htm

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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110. "Seems like you two are arguing about two different things"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

DJ man is saying that once he buys a record, he can do whatever he wants with that record. That's mostly right. He can sell it, smash it, give it away, etc. He owns that physical LP and has all the rights appertaining to the ownership of physical property.

Though I would have framed it differently, James on the other hand is essentially saying that ownership of the physical record does not give you ownership rights in the underlying copyright of the music that is embodied in the record. With regards to that copyright, you have a somewhat limited implied right to use the copyright for private use and other fair use rights. So just because you have own a record that doesn't give you the right to take the music and put it in a movie you are making. Most people get that. What most people aren't aware of is that you are technically also suppose to pay for public performances of the music in commercial establishments. A DJ wouldn't typically have the license but venues and radio stations usually pay for blanket performance licenses from ASCAP and BMI. Of course public performance is a hard right to track and enforce but during these hard times for the music industry, ASCAP and BMI have become more aggressive in sending people into the field to find venues in breach of their public performance right. The venues they are cracking down are becoming smaller and smaller to include your neighborhood bar with a jukebox.

**********
the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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112. "But who is saying this?"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

>Though I would have framed it differently, James on the other
>hand is essentially saying that ownership of the physical
>record does not give you ownership rights in the underlying
>copyright of the music that is embodied in the record.

Both disco and I have granted this several times over but jamesL seems to be fixated on some metaphysical idea of how we are being given the "privilege" to listen to music we paid for and that it's such a fucking tragedy to store mp3s in a file that says "My Music" when the music isn't really yours.

smh

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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jamesL
Member since Nov 20th 2005
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114. "You are correct."
In response to Reply # 112


          

That is my argument. We seem to have different perspectives when it comes to the relationship between consumption of music and ownership of music. To me, the only music you "own" is the music you create. If you cannot make music on your own, you should be grateful to be living in America in the 21st century and to have such access to all kinds of music. That, to me, is a privilege. And I believe you should respect the artists who create music for you by supporting them financially and respecting their rights.

But both of you also seem to counter the fact that public performance is the exclusive right of the copyright owner. So that's where I was trying to educate you, but you decided to argue without actually understanding the law. I thought it was a pretty good example of how you can NOT do "pretty much whatever you want" with your copy of the record, and that you do not own that musical recording in any sense, but I guess you still don't see it that way. And that's fine.

Just don't tell me I'm wrong when the information is freely available, and if you just did your research, like I have done, you would find that I know what the fuck I'm talking about.

  

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disco dj
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118. "man."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          


>Both disco and I have granted this several times over but
>jamesL seems to be fixated on some metaphysical idea of how we
>are being given the "privilege" to listen to music we paid for
>and that it's such a fucking tragedy to store mp3s in a file
>that says "My Music" when the music isn't really yours.
>
>smh


*SMH* indeed.


______________



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http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
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42. "where my killah tape at?"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

n/m

-------------------------
The other dude after me didnt help my case. It was just likecrazy nigga factory going on.
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. I was young, and searching, trying to find myself, he says. Never did.-- Andre B

  

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hardware
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12. "because i aint got wifi/3g like that"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and them services only have like 40% of what i wanna hear

  

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Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
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14. "^"
In response to Reply # 12


          

>and them services only have like 40% of what i wanna hear


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

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DolphinTeef
Member since Oct 25th 2009
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Tue Sep-13-11 03:09 PM

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15. "remember when those who had DSL/Cable in the days of 56k"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

were GODS amongst men?


yea...

  

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DolphinTeef
Member since Oct 25th 2009
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13. "Yea buying physical copies will be obsolete in a decade."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

yea...no one cares about the old heads waving their canes begging for CD/LPs or the ever retarded resurgence of cassette.

Artists will make money off touring...like they always have.

Smart artists will get their head above water then go indie...cept alot of artists are ignorant so look for a redefining of a 'Label'

Basically everything will be fine...the industry is purging the dead weight. All that is left is for internet radio to usurp terrestrial.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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16. "oh really?"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>Artists will make money off touring...like they always have.

You're sure this is a factual statement?

Or are you just regurgitating the current party line?




(pssst: I suspect the latter!)

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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DolphinTeef
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22. "you can delve into specifics and nitpick all you want"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

but the fact is you can't expect to stop the infinite copying of digital files. Youngins D/L...they dont give a fuck. Streaming curtails this but not enough to stop the bleeding. For the record, I do feel spotify's royalty rates should be increased as it is currently unfair.

What can't be converted into a digital experience?...live shows. Money maker.


I would love to see IPv6 get poppin allowing for more accurate recording of individual internet plays. Hopefully, driving bigger payouts from adverts/subscriptions. The future is so bright folks bitch and moan all day...boring.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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26. "Yeah... Let's not talk about 'specifics.' That might be too realistic."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>What can't be converted into a digital experience?...live
>shows. Money maker.

True enough. But at the same time, the people who trot out this line refuse to acknowledge the reality that it costs money to stage a series of live shows and the amount of money made from them when weighed against the expenses is really not that large at all. A lot of bands actually tour at a loss at the end of the day.

But y'know... that's WAY too specific to talk about here. Let's just keep our conversation limited to pie in the sky and such aerial confectionary matters.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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DolphinTeef
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Tue Sep-13-11 03:47 PM

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28. "Im not gunna lie...and say that sales weren't a signifigant portion"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

of an artist's income. But I'd rather not get into all the "This is how it used to be" talk. Publishing, Merch, Touring, sync, etc. ALL respective parts of the cash cow i know..but its boring convo ONLY because things are changing. I'd rather debate the new revenue lanes that can potentially open up given the music biz' increasingly symbiotic relationship with tech.

Any objections to my other points?

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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30. "I expressed the point I objected to."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I'm not that interested in discussing the rest of your points.

I'm just so tired of hearing this "Artists should go make their money on the road" cure-all remedy being parroted by people who clearly have little understanding of the industry, or who don't know that many acts depended on their record labels to subsidize those big tours that everybody likes to reminisce about.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Ishwip
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Tue Sep-13-11 04:00 PM

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32. "There's always the lucrative t-shirt route"
In response to Reply # 30


          


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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34. "oh yes... can't forget about that!"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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howardlloyd
Member since Jan 18th 2007
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33. "they know not what they speak"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

its just a justification for stealing

i think imma write a paper on how pussy the new generation is...
cuz thats what they are everytime they pay for a meal they dont like at a restaurant...or pay for a train/plane ride thats late

cuz thats there justification..."why should i pay for what i might not like"

its total BS.

cats THINK it will be like this forever...but it surely will not

and what about RECORDING artists...some artists have NO intention or want of hitting the road

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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Wed Sep-14-11 02:20 PM

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92. "RE: I expressed the point I objected to."
In response to Reply # 30


          

>I'm not that interested in discussing the rest of your
>points.
>
>I'm just so tired of hearing this "Artists should go make
>their money on the road" cure-all remedy being parroted by
>people who clearly have little understanding of the industry,
>or who don't know that many acts depended on their record
>labels to subsidize those big tours that everybody likes to
>reminisce about.

^^^^^
The truth will pass through fire but it will not burn


Bonus point for "aerial confections".

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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disco dj
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119. "I just rented out O2 Arena tomorrow night...you in?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>I'm not that interested in discussing the rest of your
>points.
>
>I'm just so tired of hearing this "Artists should go make
>their money on the road" cure-all remedy being parroted by
>people who clearly have little understanding of the industry,
>or who don't know that many acts depended on their record
>labels to subsidize those big tours that everybody likes to
>reminisce about.


Since whenever I need some loot, I can just "go out on the road"...

______________



http://www.windimoto.com


http://ten2one.wordpress.com/ <-FEB

http://wallpapershi.net/wallpapers/2012/01/boba-fett-star-wars-star-wars-boba-fett-movie-anime-1080x1920.jpg

  

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johnbook
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39. "Go home and cook rice n/m"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          


THE HOME OF BOOK-NESS:
http://www.thisisbooksmusic.com/
http://twitter.com/thisisjohnbook
http://www.facebook.com/book1


http://i32.tinypic.com/kbewp4.gif

  

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BrainChild
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Wed Sep-14-11 03:41 PM

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97. "RE: Yea buying physical copies will be obsolete in a decade."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>Artists will make money off touring...like they always have.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1392686/Lady-Gaga-admits-went-bankrupt-spending-millions-tour-costumes.html

--me--
www.djbrainchild.com
www.gordongartrellradio.com
www.twitter.com/djbrainchild

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
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Tue Sep-13-11 03:15 PM

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18. "I don't know what else to spend money on, LOL..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Well, I have a kid now so that's one thing but still...

Actually, when the whole file-sharing, and a bit later, blog-thing took off, I became enarmored with it and even stopped working full-time since I didn't need much money anymore and I also needed more free time to listen to all the music available.

However-and this might sound corny as fuck but I don't care-I became unhappy with this; searching for records in used stores and reading about music to check out etc. was something I had been doing since I was seven and I jst felt incomplete; it was like a big part of my life that had just disappeared and downloading and shit just couldn't fill that void not to mention that the sheer enjoyment I got out of finding a dope record in physical form beat the downloading aspect by far so I stopped and went back to my old ways.

And yes, it's the music that matters and it doesn't matter if it's digital or you own it or blah-blah but I don't care; I come from a different era...

That being said, I love Spotify and use it at work all the time because I can obviously not bring my record-collection there and my MP3 player only holds 2 Gb so it's great if I'm in the mood at work to hear a certain record,,,

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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27. "LOL only a European could say something like this:"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>Actually, when the whole file-sharing, and a bit later,
>blog-thing took off, I became enarmored with it and even
>stopped working full-time since I didn't need much money
>anymore

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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dafriquan
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84. "lol...i love that attitude"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

>> even
>>stopped working full-time since I didn't need much money
>>anymore

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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86. "I... admire it."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

I wish I could live like that, but neither my American nor my Igbo side will ever allow it to happen!

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Joe Corn Mo
Member since Aug 29th 2010
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Tue Sep-13-11 03:22 PM

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19. "because vinyl is fucking AWESOME!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that's why.

  

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FortifiedLive
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21. "until lossless streaming is the norm, i won't be switching anytime soon."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

what a waste it'd be to use my cans+amp on lossy shit. i prefer physical copies and vinyl anyway.

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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simpsycho
Member since May 29th 2007
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24. "Pretty sure I can't get Spotify in my car"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And that's where I do a lot of my listening.

  

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DolphinTeef
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29. "Smartphone > 3/4g > Spotify app + subscription > AUX input"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

it's more than possible and relatively affordable.

  

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Austin
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36. "RE: Yeah, because that's easier than. . ."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

1) Open Cd

2) Insert disc in player

~Austin

os·ti·na·to
/ˌästəˈnädō/
noun
a continually repeated musical phrase or rhythm

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

  

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DolphinTeef
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37. "C'mon"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

*Slides in favorite CD...unreadable in car but works on a PC CDROM?!?*
*Car immediately fills up with random unlabeled CDRs*
*Loan friend your favorite CD...6 mos later you forgot who*
*Hits pothole...*
*Carry entire music collection in a Case Logic booklet...stolen by random car thief*

i could go on but u get the point...Minor initial inconvenience in favor of instant access to infinite songs.

  

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Austin
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40. "RE: If you don't take care of your shit, that's not the CD's fault."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

~Austin

os·ti·na·to
/ˌästəˈnädō/
noun
a continually repeated musical phrase or rhythm

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

  

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simpsycho
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44. "You have the same kind of problems with anything"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

*Dropped smartphone, out several hundred dollars to replace it
*Drive out of the 3G coverage zone, lose reception
*Carrier eliminates your unlimited plan, you rack up a giant bill
*Smartphone stolen by random ass car thief

  

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Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
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25. "So you want the music - you just don't want to pay for it?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Help me understand what your saying if you don't mind.

  

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justin_scott
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35. "digital downloads NEVER sound as good as vinyl or even cd's"
In response to Reply # 0


          

180 gram vinyl will always sound better than any digital mp3.

************************************************************

  

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TRENDone
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41. "some people's music taste and consumer habits don't change"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but their life changes. not everyone that buys music is a audiophile, music critic, or technologically savvy.

____________________________________________________________________

San Diego State's holy trinity of sports:
Kawhi Leonard
Marshall Faulk
Tony Gwynn (RIP)

#Aztec4Life

  

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audiophile
Member since Aug 19th 2005
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Tue Sep-13-11 10:53 PM

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43. "plus, the price of records going up to make up for that loss."
In response to Reply # 0


          

sad all around

i miss hearing that snap/crackle sound from the source...

  

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SoWhat
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47. "we're supposed to buy records b/c we feel guilty about not buying them."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Sep-14-11 07:41 AM by SoWhat

  

          

and b/c regardless of the fact that we can get the music for free or for cheap via some streaming service, we're supposed to love the music as art so much that we want to give the artist money so they can produce more music.

that's the model today.

i just read a blog entry from a porn producer who's borrowed the tiny violin the music industry plays for itself and is now playing the world's smallest violin for himself and the porn industry in an attempt to make us all feel the same guilt about porn that we are supposed to feel about records. he wants us to buy porn b/c we love it so much that we want to support the artists w/our money despite the fact that it's freely/cheaply available all over the Internet.

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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48. "Or maybe some people just like buying/owning records."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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SoWhat
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49. "yeah, they want us to."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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50. "enh."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

Most of the labels I know that deal in vinyl seem almost uninterested in expanding their audience beyond the people who already do like owning vinyl.

I haven't seen any wide appeal begging people to buy the stuff. It just so happens that there are people who DO like buying it and the market exists to service that segment of the population.

Now, if you wanna say that they are interested in stopping people from acquiring their products illegally... Yeah, that's a different thing altogether. You can buy the shit or not buy it, but if they can try to stop you from stealing it (yes, that IS what it is) then why would they not?

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Wed Sep-14-11 08:41 AM

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53. "I like vinyl, CD's mp3's, streams, etc..."
In response to Reply # 50
Wed Sep-14-11 08:41 AM by legsdiamond

          

I have them all and the convenience of mp3's trumps all.

That being said... record labels should have worked with Napster instead of fighting it. They wasted a good 20 years fighting a losing battle.



  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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54. "Napster happened like 10 years ago."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

>That being said... record labels should have worked with
>Napster instead of fighting it. They wasted a good 20 years
>fighting a losing battle.

Not nitpicking, just saying.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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SoWhat
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57. "I didn't say labels = them."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

They = the industry. Including wrecka stow owners & acts.

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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59. "Acts mostly seem to be giving it away for free these days"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Wrecka stores obviously have more of a vested interest in people buying records, but again I don't think they are really appealing to the mainstream buyer who would have otherwise downloaded mp3s.

How many actual "mainstream" record stores still exist? Not counting the likes of Best Buy who were already selling CDs as loss leaders for years?

In *my* experience at least, most record stores appeal again to the vinyl freaks who are more than likely buying older records, not new stuff. So the notion that stores are operating on the model of "buy records or there will be no more music produced."

They are definitely begging people to support their local record stores, but in that case they are not losing their clientele to illegal downloading.... They're losing it to eBay, GEMM, CDandLP.com, DustyGroove USA, etc.

In other words: you are talking a bunch of horseshit.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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SoWhat
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64. "okay, guy."
In response to Reply # 59
Wed Sep-14-11 10:07 AM by SoWhat

  

          

you don't get what i'm saying. probably b/c i wasn't really saying much of anything to begin with. you're determined to make this into something.

have fun w/that. lol

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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65. "nah, it's just this:"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

>i wasn't really
>saying much of anything to begin with.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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SoWhat
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67. "yeah, my initial reply was obviously facetious."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

so, again. good luck w/your argument, fella.

lol

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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68. "my initial response was also facetious."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

You could have left it there, but you wanted to keep going.

So I go'd along with you.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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SoWhat
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69. "and here we are."
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

fuck you.

  

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GumDrops
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Wed Sep-14-11 08:29 AM

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51. "i snorted here:"
In response to Reply # 47
Wed Sep-14-11 08:40 AM by GumDrops

  

          

>i just read a blog entry from a porn producer who's borrowed
>the tiny violin the music industry plays for itself and is now
>playing the world's smallest violin for himself and the porn
>industry in an attempt to make us all feel the same guilt
>about porn that we are supposed to feel about records. he
>wants us to buy porn b/c we love it so much

i worry about anyone with that kind of attachment to porn

but i disagree that ppl shouldnt feel guilty for downloading music for free. theres no difference between that and stealing apples from an orchard or a cow from a farm. dont act like its your right.

idk about the idea that 'guilt' is the model today though. the emerging model now is how can we get people to pay - whether mp3s, streaming, subscription services, whatever - for something they have no incentive to pay for? guilt isnt effective enough to make people pay for anything. no one buys records or cds out of guilt, they buy it cos they like it. which is what is eroding the music biz - people buying something cos they like it rather than cos they have to (as they did when there was no other way of 'accessing' the 'content'), its a very niche business that only a minority of ppl will be sympathetic to.

  

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s t a r s k y
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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Wed Sep-14-11 08:54 AM

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55. "Bullshit"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          


>but i disagree that ppl shouldnt feel guilty for downloading
>music for free. theres no difference between that and stealing
>apples from an orchard or a cow from a farm. dont act like its
>your right.

There is a big difference.
If I steal your cow you don't have it anymore. You can't sell it, you can't get milk from it, you can't get meat from it.

If I download your album i've just made a copy. You still have the music. The only thing that is lost is a -potential- sale.

I'm not saying downloading music isn't wrong. But copyright infringement is not theft.
________________________________

(屮゚Д゚ )屮

  

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GumDrops
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56. "its not a perfect analogy"
In response to Reply # 55
Wed Sep-14-11 09:14 AM by GumDrops

  

          

>There is a big difference.
>If I steal your cow you don't have it anymore. You can't sell
>it, you can't get milk from it, you can't get meat from it.

but if i had a cow, and every morning before i could get the cows milked, 10-20 ppl came in and milked the animal dry before i had a chance to get near her, any profits i could make would be lost for the day. if it happened every single day, id be even more fucked. which is more or less what happens with music.

>If I download your album i've just made a copy. You still have
>the music. The only thing that is lost is a -potential- sale.

no it is a sale lost. before, unless someone copied an album for you, or you borrowed it from a library, you couldnt hear it. now you can hear a more or less perfect copy and dont have to buy it. even if you didnt like it, before you would prob have had to buy it (yeah you could listen to it on a listening station at tower or hmv but that takes time - most people would just hand over the cash). now you dont. so it essentially is a lost sale.

>I'm not saying downloading music isn't wrong. But copyright
>infringement is not theft.

sure. its just old fashioned music bootlegging really (where it WAS a lost sale, as people would be shelling out cash for a tape or cd) updated for the free culture of the web, but without any costs involved. before people wanted shit for cheap (and bootleggers would have to charge for the cost of the copies they made), now they want it for free.

  

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SoWhat
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58. "Your cow, your duty to safeguard it. "
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

Which is why God created fences. Music biz needs better fences.

fuck you.

  

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GumDrops
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60. "the fence in this case cant be put up again"
In response to Reply # 58
Wed Sep-14-11 09:22 AM by GumDrops

  

          

its impossible

you can only try and persuade people that somehow they should stop trampling over that fence and consider paying a little to get to the cow without having to endure the trouble and hassle of the steal

which is what the biz is trying to do now with things like spotify

it seems to be working i think

convenience is what people seem to want the most and i think for most people even the idea of youtubing songs through searches or googling for torrents is hassle they can cut if they just have something like a streaming service

ultimately the thing which needs to be restored is the transaction and cash for music exchange, how thats done i think no one really cares about, as long as part of the old model - where artists get paid, labels sell music - is back in place securely

im not sure this is healthy exactly for how we treat and regard music but at this point worrying about the psychology of music buying-listening is prob a minor concern

  

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SoWhat
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63. "i value convenience."
In response to Reply # 60
Wed Sep-14-11 10:05 AM by SoWhat

  

          

but i haven't checked for Spotify. i haven't heard anything about it that interests me.

i'll stop downloading/youtubing only when i can't do it anymore.

i've said before...the reason i pay for bread at the supermarket is b/c i don't know a place where i can get that same bread (or a close enough version) for free. if i did, i wouldn't pay for it at the supermarket.

if i couldn't get music for free i would pay for it. like i used to. religiously.

fuck you.

  

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s t a r s k y
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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Wed Sep-14-11 09:46 AM

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62. "RE: its not a perfect analogy"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

>>There is a big difference.
>>If I steal your cow you don't have it anymore. You can't
>sell
>>it, you can't get milk from it, you can't get meat from it.
>
>but if i had a cow, and every morning before i could get the
>cows milked, 10-20 ppl came in and milked the animal dry
>before i had a chance to get near her, any profits i could
>make would be lost for the day. if it happened every single
>day, id be even more fucked. which is more or less what
>happens with music.

But the cow can't be milked dry, that's the point. People could milk it all day and it would still give more. The fact that you spend years studying bio-engineering and developed the breeding program that produced this cow and now everybody can get free milk while all you get is the thanks from the villagers. Well, that is a problem.




>>If I download your album i've just made a copy. You still
>have
>>the music. The only thing that is lost is a -potential-
>sale.
>
>no it is a sale lost. before, unless someone copied an album
>for you, or you borrowed it from a library, you couldnt hear
>it. now you can hear a more or less perfect copy and dont have
>to buy it. even if you didnt like it, before you would prob
>have had to buy it (yeah you could listen to it on a listening
>station at tower or hmv but that takes time - most people
>would just hand over the cash). now you dont. so it
>essentially is a lost sale.

But it isn't. I don't have a lot of money, but I try to pay for as much music as my budget allows. The rest of the music I consume I download.
So let's say I have 10 albums, 2 of which I bought and 8 I illegally downloaded.
If I didn't had the option to download those 8 albums then I just wouldn't have heard them. There would be no lost sales because I didn't have the money to buy them in the first place.

I'm not saying this is true for everybody, but i'm willing to bet that a large percentage of this website couldn't afford the mp3 collection they have if they had to pay the official price.


>>I'm not saying downloading music isn't wrong. But copyright
>>infringement is not theft.
>
>sure. its just old fashioned music bootlegging really (where
>it WAS a lost sale, as people would be shelling out cash for a
>tape or cd), but without any costs involved. before people
>wanted shit for cheap (and bootleggers would have to charge
>for the cost of the copies they made), now they want it for
>free.

I think we want everything for free all the time, as long as we can get away with it.

http://3.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kpcvvy3eqK1qz4a62o1_500.jpg

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SoWhat
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66. "of course we want everything for free all the time."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

it's why stores have security systems. hell, it's why the security industry exists, generally. to keep us from getting everything for free all the time. b/c that's the 'natural' order of things.

fuck you.

  

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s t a r s k y
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75. "True"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          


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SoWhat
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76. "and i agree about ppl affording their mp3 collections."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

i'm sure there are plenty folks who've paid for all of their mp3s. but there are a number who haven't and couldn't afford to do so.

fuck you.

  

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k_orr
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61. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

> he
>wants us to buy porn b/c we love it so much that we want to
>support the artists w/our money despite the fact that it's
>freely/cheaply available all over the Internet.

If there's anything hackers like, it's porn. No matter what scheme they come up with to force people to pay for it, somebody will hack it. The underlying motivation is way too deep.

one
k. orr

  

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lakai336
Member since Aug 17th 2009
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52. "I could go on with a"
In response to Reply # 0


          

rant about why anyone not buying music is truly destroying music and shouldn't be called a music fan (I mean the people who don't buy ANYTHING, regardless of how much they like it).

Instead I'll just say that subscription services, for me, are a pretty good deal. I presently have Rhapsody. I pay less than $15 a month and I can dowload any album I want. Their collection is pretty satisfactory, I can't find maybe 1 out of every 70 albums I search for, if that. I don't care that I don't own the mp3s and can't burn them because they allow you transfer them to specific mp3 players (The Sandisk Sansa line, some others). So I basically just keep about 20 albums on my Sansa on at a time and then switch em up when I get bored of 'em. Well worth my money cause this way I can take my music wherever.

I still buy albums too. I basically use Rhapsody to listen to albums (they are fairly high quality digital files) and then I go and order whatever I really like as a physical CD so I can rip it to FLAC and store it on my computer.

I hear Zune subscription services are just as good if not better.

So basically I have the same amount of access as the free music crowd for a very small price (less than 4 dollars a week) and all of the artists still receive some form of compensation just for me playing their songs or adding them to my library. If they're making good shit, they will receive full compensation as I will go to their websites and order their albums.

  

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s t a r s k y
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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Wed Sep-14-11 10:13 AM

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70. "RE: Wait, why would anybody buy another record ever again..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>when they are mostly on subscription services like spotify.
>I never had a subscription service before but I bought spotify
>because of all of the hype. the only feature that has really
>impressed me with spotify is the feature that has been
>available on subscription services before spotify.
>Specifically, Watch the Throne and The Carter IV were
>available on Spotify within a couple of weeks of their
>release. It makes me regretful that I bought Watch the Throne
>when it came out.

That doesn't impress me at all. If spotify wants to compete with torrents, they have to have albums on the day of release.




>How can album sales still be a metric for measuring an albums
>popularity when then songs are freely streamable on
>subscription services within a couple of weeks?
>
>Fuck a billboard, with the help of the interwebs couldn't we
>come with a number for all the times that a song was played on
>youtube, subscription service, scrobbled on last.fm, ec/?

That wouldn't work.
Those numbers might give a more complete picture of popularity now, but once they actually start to matter in a way billboard does now, they will be fudged in no time.




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soulfunk
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71. "Rhapsody>>>>Spotify..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The selection is MUCH better, and you get cd's the day they come out.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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72. "In my head I am building the perfect music App"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Fair gripe regarding Subscription Services not having all the songs you want. But a Subscription Service that included a cloud service for your own tracks can fix that.

In my head I am building the perfect Music App and it would be composed of services that are already available now, but all in one place. Including:

1. A subscription service. The great thing I have discovered about subscription services is that it has me listening to albums I would never have bothered to purchase or even steal.
2. Cloud Service - Spotify doesn't have every song, so I want a cloud service Like Google Music so I can upload the tracks that are covered by the subscription service.
3. Last.FM Statistics - I want lots of data on what people are listening to. WHich songs are trending up.
4. Facebook Integration - I want to know what my friends are listening to (but judging from spotify's facebook integration, my friends are listening to crap).
5. Facts about the track/band/album etc.- I want allmusic, wikipedia info to pop up when I select a track. Also would like to know which of my friends are listening to the same track. Maybe an online space to discuss the track/album etc.

What else am I missing here. Maybe I should have started a seperate post re: dream music App.



**********
the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

  

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SoWhat
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73. "i dig this."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

i'd like to be able to listen to (if not download...lol) tracks from my friends' libraries.

fuck you.

  

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s t a r s k y
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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74. "That sounds good.."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

Maybe it could use a turntable.fm/listening room type aspect.
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Binlahab
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77. "my friends music taste sucks. that might make me angry"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

ie

Rah is listening to 'What these bitches want' - DMX f. Sisqo WHY didn't these 2 make a album together?!!

ill unfriend your ass for that


do or die

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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78. "I forgot Pandora Style music radio"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          


**********
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SoWhat
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79. "i wouldn't put that in my dream app."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

i haven't liked using Pandora any of the 3 or 4 times i've tried it. i like having more control over music selection. Pandora tries too hard to select music for me.

fuck you.

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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80. "Pandora's done the best job of passively allowing me to discover new mus..."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

The Killer AP will definitely need some sort of radio feature.

**********
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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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96. "Pandora is smarter than i expected with its selection..."
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

----Live Mixshow Thursday Nights 9PM/EST----

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----Mixtape Archives-----
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https://mixcloud.com/djchiefone

  

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s t a r s k y
Member since Oct 22nd 2004
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103. "What if they give their users their own radio shows"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

Like podcast that are only for subscribers. That way people can do shows with music without having to worry about copyright issues.
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hardware
Member since May 22nd 2007
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81. "last.fm dropped the ball so hard"
In response to Reply # 72


          

they coulda had a streaming app with a radio based off the shit you listen to offline

  

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DolphinTeef
Member since Oct 25th 2009
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82. "i thought you can upload to spotify?"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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85. "Not exactly."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

http://www.spotify.com/us/help/faq/local-files/does-spotify-upload-my-local-files-to-its-servers/

**********
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My_SP1200_Broken_Again
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95. "i still buy vinyl..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...but its used and artists will see no money from this ...i wouldnt expect kids who didnt grow up on wax or any physical medium for that matter to have the same need to BUY and OWN music

----Live Mixshow Thursday Nights 9PM/EST----

https://twitch.tv/djchiefone
https://instagram.com/dj_chief_one


----Mixtape Archives-----
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GumDrops
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102. "eventually we will ask this about films and books too"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i wonder if the movie and publishing industries will adapt better. i sense they are, as ebooks are doing pretty well so far (well they would with amazon monopolising the game). so maybe it will just be music that is permanently fucked.

  

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lakai336
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105. "I don't know, I'm mixed on that."
In response to Reply # 102


          

Movies isn't that big of an issue. Movie Theaters are much more popular than concerts, so that would be their version of that kind of revenue (i.e. the movies is popping off every day basically, concerts vary).

As for Ebooks, I'm really surprised they're growing. I mean I've never read on a Kindle or an Ipad or whatever, but if it's anything like reading on the computer (same kinds of screens?)....then that fucking sucks. I strongly prefer printed materials over digital. If I read more than 15-30 minutes on the computer I feel all fucked up.

Music seems to be the most convenient thing to get freeloaded like that. Small files, easy portability/accessibility and easily digested.

  

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Ishwip
Member since Jun 10th 2005
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Thu Sep-15-11 08:13 AM

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108. "E-readers (the black and white type) aren't hard on the eyes"
In response to Reply # 105


          

>Movies isn't that big of an issue. Movie Theaters are much
>more popular than concerts, so that would be their version of
>that kind of revenue (i.e. the movies is popping off every day
>basically, concerts vary).
>
>As for Ebooks, I'm really surprised they're growing. I mean
>I've never read on a Kindle or an Ipad or whatever, but if
>it's anything like reading on the computer (same kinds of
>screens?)....then that fucking sucks. I strongly prefer
>printed materials over digital. If I read more than 15-30
>minutes on the computer I feel all fucked up.

They use electronic ink that mimics how text looks on paper. It's not backlit like your computer monitor, iPad, mobile phone, etc. so no strain on your eyes. Now, color e-readers, mobiles, and tablets ARE backlit and I have no idea how someone can read page after page on those lol.

Either way, I also prefer regular old books, but I have an e-reader and it's cool for traveling.


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

  

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GumDrops
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111. "well im not talking about theatres"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

>Movies isn't that big of an issue. Movie Theaters are much
>more popular than concerts, so that would be their version of
>that kind of revenue (i.e. the movies is popping off every day
>basically, concerts vary).

although im sure im always reading about attendance figures no being quite what they used to be and dvd sales are definitely down compared to the boom years (though maybe that normal - cant expect them to stay the same, maybe we make the same mistake with music sales)

blu ray is basically the last man standing with movie physical formats, now that hd-dvd is on the way out

so that will eventually just leave netflix and so on when it comes to home viewing

soon it will just be pay to play streaming direct to your smart TV

and im sure most people can/do the same with torrents already

just find it in divx and there you go

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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113. "why you think 3D is suddenly so popular (again)?"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

Apart from providing an experience that presumably cannot be replicated via home viewing/illegal downloading (though that is changing), they get to charge higher prices for the experience to make up for dwindling revenues.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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GumDrops
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115. "yeah i know, 3d is like the last gasp to get bums on seats"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

and they get to charge a bit more for it too

though you can get 3d glasses for tvs now too!

so im wondering how thats going to go

personally i think 3d is completely useless

i cant think of any great examples of it being used

apart from piranha 3d!

  

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SoWhat
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116. "not even Avatar?"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

LOL

i kid.

i think Cameron used 3D effectively in the movie (no stupid throwing/pointing things at the camera just for the 3D), but i was still so bored by it i fell asleep after an hour.

fuck you.

  

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GumDrops
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117. "yeah thats technically the best"
In response to Reply # 116
Thu Sep-15-11 04:12 PM by GumDrops

  

          

but in terms of servicing the movie, i mean, does it do anything? it just seems pointless mostly (plus it makes everything dimmer, which i find annoying)

i think its a technology that has to be used in a gimmicky (and this can be fun) rather than trying to make it seem like some great new leap in filmmaking

ie it made sense in piranha 3d cos it was like the fish were coming at my head and about to eat my face lol

  

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Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
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Thu Sep-15-11 03:54 AM

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106. "All I Got To Say Is....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...whatever mane, smh.


https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

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