Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby The Lesson topic #2592515

Subject: "Why is Roger often given credit for changing the sound of Funk" Previous topic | Next topic
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 10:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
"Why is Roger often given credit for changing the sound of Funk"


  

          

with "More Bounce to the Ounce"

when that record was an adaptation of an earlier (and superior) record by Vaughan Mason and in fact was part of a whole slew of songs that jumped on Mason's "bounce" bandwagon?

I've always wondered about that.

Actually, why is Vaughan Mason so slept-on in general? Maybe because he didn't really put out that much material, he doesn't have a cool name and his "Crew" was kinda faceless in general.

Anyway... Roller-skating music. Fuck yeah.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Vaughn Mason didn't have a talkbox, bro.
Aug 26th 2011
1
you know, that kinda occurred to me right after posting.
Aug 26th 2011
2
HELL YES!!
Aug 26th 2011
3
      yeah, there's the clap
Aug 26th 2011
4
      The clap actually took the place of the usual drum snare, that
Aug 26th 2011
77
which has went horribly arwy
Aug 26th 2011
83
After thinking about this, it must be the talkbox...
Aug 26th 2011
102
RE: Why is Roger often given credit for changing the sound of Funk
Aug 26th 2011
5
At least retroactively...
Aug 26th 2011
6
      It's revisionism then
Aug 26th 2011
7
           yeah, the Kano makes sense but
Aug 26th 2011
8
                People didn't have as much info on the music back then
Aug 26th 2011
10
                     LOL, so did I
Aug 26th 2011
58
I Don't Think He Changed Funk Music Per Se, But,,,,
Aug 26th 2011
9
?
Aug 26th 2011
13
      Me either
Aug 26th 2011
14
           I would agree on both points
Aug 26th 2011
72
As Far As Harvey Mason...
Aug 26th 2011
11
He's talking about the group Vaughan Mason
Aug 26th 2011
12
      Vaughn Mason is a group and not a person? LOLOL.
Aug 26th 2011
20
           Vaughn Mason is a person
Aug 26th 2011
30
                aahhhhh, you right. lol. n/m.
Aug 26th 2011
52
                I Misread it....
Aug 26th 2011
68
Knowing Vaughn personally I can assure you this post is overrated
Aug 26th 2011
15
thanks for posting.
Aug 26th 2011
16
More Bounce to the ounce was a "harder" sound than the mason record
Aug 26th 2011
17
yep...
Aug 26th 2011
56
      Yep whereas Vaughn Mason's record merely captured that time
Aug 26th 2011
57
      I would say that the guys that would go on to make a certain
Aug 26th 2011
71
           Yep like I pointed out - imagine cats trying to rework Vaughn Mason
Aug 26th 2011
76
                right...the line of thinking that hip hop evolved from Funk
Aug 26th 2011
84
                     Completely agree and some cats call that period 'the bridge'
Aug 26th 2011
86
                          there are a handful of songs that would include more bounce...
Aug 26th 2011
88
                               yeah that's real..
Aug 26th 2011
89
i just re-read this and got pissed.
Aug 26th 2011
18
taking nothing at all away from Roger
Aug 26th 2011
21
Personal opinion - nothing in this post is factual tho bro.
Aug 26th 2011
23
actually, there are many things in this post that are factual.
Aug 26th 2011
25
      C'mon man stop being snarky. I don't agree and this just seems
Aug 26th 2011
39
           RE: C'mon man stop being snarky. I don't agree and this just seems
Aug 26th 2011
                haha.. yang. So you are saying More Bounce was a response
Aug 26th 2011
48
it DOES swang more. Roger's shit is HARD.
Aug 26th 2011
51
yep... you are right on here:
Aug 26th 2011
53
Simply put could you imagine a reinterpretation of Vaughn's record
Aug 26th 2011
55
LMFAO!
Aug 26th 2011
82
Yep. Raj wins again and again.
Aug 26th 2011
54
if I had to place the term "organic" on either song
Aug 26th 2011
69
      Amen not even an argument.
Aug 26th 2011
73
      organic as in 'the instruments sound more "real"'
Aug 26th 2011
75
           I agree with Kap on this - the mix was at least.
Aug 26th 2011
79
           you listen to the rhythm guitar line Bootsy is playing under the
Aug 26th 2011
87
                ya know I was unaware that was Mr. Collins... that is crazzzzzyyy
Aug 26th 2011
92
                Bootsy was a killer on the rhythm guitar....stands to reason though
Aug 26th 2011
94
                The Vaughan Mason record has a very similar rhythm guitar part
Aug 26th 2011
95
                     dude...you would honestly call that line Bootsy is playing
Aug 26th 2011
97
Not to mention I don't get the whole 'new sound' abt Vaughn Mason
Aug 26th 2011
22
      It came out in 1979.
Aug 26th 2011
24
           Um it reached number one in 1980/Was actually released in 78'
Aug 26th 2011
26
           Wait a minute "I Want Your Love" Trumps all this!!!!! Yo!
Aug 26th 2011
29
           RE: Wait a minute "I Want Your Love" Trumps all this!!!!! Yo!
Aug 26th 2011
34
           RE: Um it reached number one in 1980/Was actually released in 78'
Aug 26th 2011
31
           RE: Um it reached number one in 1980/Was actually released in 78'
Aug 26th 2011
32
           Chic. Forgive i don't live in the 70's all day man lol
Aug 26th 2011
27
                You changing the terms of the debate.
Aug 26th 2011
28
                No I'm not production is the debate. Roger wins.
Aug 26th 2011
35
                     Jesus Christ you are annoying.
Aug 26th 2011
37
                     doesn't matter cause Roll Bounce doesn't have the prod equivalent
Aug 26th 2011
41
                          RE: doesn't matter cause Roll Bounce doesn't have the prod equivalent
Aug 26th 2011
44
                               Okay then
Aug 26th 2011
46
                                    Just so you know: I'm not replying to you after this.
Aug 26th 2011
49
                                         You won't cause you can't.
Aug 26th 2011
50
                     RE: No I'm not production is the debate. Roger wins.
Aug 26th 2011
38
                RE: Chic. Forgive i don't live in the 70's all day man lol
Aug 26th 2011
33
                     Please show me what Vaughn did that Nile Rodgers hadn't.
Aug 26th 2011
36
                          SYNTH BASS.
Aug 26th 2011
40
                               Nah son. Your argument aint valid at all. Rodger/synth bass
Aug 26th 2011
43
                                    RE: Nah son. Your argument aint valid at all. Rodger/synth bass
Aug 26th 2011
45
                                         I love how when you don't have an argument you do this.
Aug 26th 2011
47
--------------SHUCKS---------------
Aug 26th 2011
19
i'm just here for the inevitable wc and afkap bnf
Aug 26th 2011
42
oh, ad has replaced wc in the playoffs?
Aug 26th 2011
59
      the bamma stay bamming up posts
Aug 26th 2011
60
           I don't know why I imagine you in a house coat and a cigarette
Aug 26th 2011
61
This post made me think of something else: SYNTH BASS
Aug 26th 2011
62
On the Rene & Angela are you talking about
Aug 26th 2011
63
      This.
Aug 26th 2011
64
           Yep double bass. Bass player and synth bass together.
Aug 26th 2011
65
                ????
Aug 26th 2011
66
                     No not in that song - I didn't mention that song earlier - but the
Aug 26th 2011
67
                     like i said... bamming up the post.
Aug 26th 2011
70
                          I never mentioned Rene and Angel bruh and my point stands.
Aug 26th 2011
74
                               LOL
Aug 26th 2011
78
                                    You can't - that's why you are laughing.
Aug 26th 2011
80
                                         I'm laughing at your bamma-ism.
Aug 26th 2011
81
                                              way to skirt around your lies fam and move the goal posts
Aug 26th 2011
85
                                                   It's kinda unreasonable to think Roger wasn't influenced by VM though
Aug 26th 2011
90
                                                        that could be said for any record that hit big tho. that wouldn't be fa...
Aug 26th 2011
91
                                                        That's what I'm saying
Aug 26th 2011
93
                                                             we saying the same thing - I def agree about Prince as well
Aug 26th 2011
99
                                                        I can't help but think More Bounce was indirectly an answer record
Aug 26th 2011
96
                                                             You just made a pretty strong case
Aug 26th 2011
98
                                                             I dunno... roller skating music already had a trend going and in some
Aug 26th 2011
103
                                                             very valid point WC
Aug 26th 2011
100
                                                             I don't even think it was them having disdain for others
Aug 26th 2011
105
                                                                  makes sense that's how real musicians get down..
Aug 26th 2011
106
                                                                  that Brides song I was thinking of with Bootsy on drums
Aug 27th 2011
112
                                                                  competition and also watching the reaction
Aug 27th 2011
110
                                                             RE: I can't help but think More Bounce was indirectly an answer record
Aug 26th 2011
101
                                                             Man if that's true how ill is that????! ha.
Aug 26th 2011
104
RE: Why is Roger often given credit for changing the sound of Funk
Aug 27th 2011
107
oh, really?
Aug 27th 2011
108
      RE: oh, really?
Aug 27th 2011
109
           RE: oh, really?
Aug 31st 2011
153
Roger was a Great Musician, Average songwriter on a whole
Aug 27th 2011
111
his style didn't require him to be Curtis Mayfield with his songwriting
Aug 27th 2011
113
      Steely Dan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zapp
Aug 29th 2011
151
u're so off base with crediting Vaughn, it ain't a good example...
Aug 27th 2011
114
ok...ok..ok + making of more bounce from shock g
Aug 27th 2011
115
wow... that's wild
Aug 27th 2011
116
i noticed that too doc
Aug 27th 2011
117
      It was *kinda* duplicated, though.
Aug 27th 2011
119
v-e-r-y interesting!
Aug 27th 2011
118
here ya go bro
Aug 27th 2011
124
damn
Aug 27th 2011
120
btw that Shock G quote debunks what WC was saying
Aug 28th 2011
139
I just now got what bamma-ass Aquaman was talking about
Aug 27th 2011
121
Yeah.... when I first read this post
Aug 27th 2011
122
Listening to it now
Aug 27th 2011
123
while we are on the subject of more bounce
Aug 27th 2011
126
      as for the clap track and the 'hard' sound... yeah
Aug 27th 2011
129
      RE: while we are on the subject of more bounce
Aug 27th 2011
131
but..
Aug 27th 2011
125
Not really... because except for 'Flashlight'
Aug 27th 2011
134
lol, nice try...
Aug 27th 2011
127
      I *did* specify what I meant.
Aug 27th 2011
132
           actually, no you didn't...
Aug 28th 2011
135
                Please go back and read through the responses.
Aug 28th 2011
136
                     so when facts are presented to dead the speculation...
Aug 28th 2011
137
                          first of all, I supposedly 'took my toys and went home' because
Aug 28th 2011
138
To go with what Doc mentioned...we need to make a Synth Bass
Aug 27th 2011
128
lmfao... off topic
Aug 27th 2011
130
that's what I hoped this post would be before it got bammed up
Aug 27th 2011
133
well Cutie Pie and More Bounce are definitely related in
Aug 28th 2011
140
      I think electro-funk leading into hip-hop (or 'Rapp')
Aug 28th 2011
141
           the west coast certainly had an influence there...but the east coast
Aug 28th 2011
145
                Shannon and Lisa Lisa weren't really coming out of hip-hop
Aug 28th 2011
146
The Bar Kays use of the synth bass was monumental
Aug 28th 2011
143
      She Talks to Me with Her Body was definitely more
Aug 28th 2011
144
nerds
Aug 28th 2011
142
lol
Aug 28th 2011
148
this post reminds me of Aaliyah/Tim/"One in A Million"
Aug 28th 2011
147
claiming Vaughn Mason's shit is in any way better than Roger? FOH!
Aug 28th 2011
149
my preference, my opinion.
Aug 28th 2011
150
RE: Why is Roger often given credit for changing the sound of Funk
Aug 31st 2011
152

MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 10:13 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "Vaughn Mason didn't have a talkbox, bro."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...and you bet not say nothin' bad about Roger Troutman, 'cause that's when i lose it!! (c) me via Kim Wayans

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 10:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
2. "you know, that kinda occurred to me right after posting."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

So that was the big difference then? (I'm not being sarcastic, mind you... in 1980, that talkbox sounded so damn futuristic it was a MASSIVE difference)

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 10:34 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "HELL YES!!"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Roger brought that clap to the forefront too, man. it's not like it hadn't been done before...but his joints were magical.

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 10:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
4. "yeah, there's the clap"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

but Vaughan Mason's clap was pretty much foregrounded too, wasn't it? http://youtu.be/jiJRC03-yPY

Soon, everybody had to be up on that sound... http://youtu.be/c24g4xZhHXQ


Then George came back and amplified everything to almost ridiculous extremes: http://youtu.be/ngu9yhBpHCI

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Silky1
Charter member
9763 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IMClick to send message via ICQ
77. "The clap actually took the place of the usual drum snare, that "
In response to Reply # 3
Fri Aug-26-11 02:50 PM by Silky1

  

          

>Roger brought that clap to the forefront too, man. it's not
>like it hadn't been done before...but his joints were
>magical.

......we'd hear on alot of funk records.

silk.later Reunion radio with Old P. & Silk http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

"i'm talking about *Balls Deep*....In Love (c)Cleveland Jr.

He was cultivating a fine nigga farm (c)Goldmind.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Yank
Charter member
24509 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
83. "which has went horribly arwy"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

-

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 07:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
102. "After thinking about this, it must be the talkbox..."
In response to Reply # 1


          

Of course4, I have no idea whwther this song is considered to have changed the face of funk but it's definitely one of the songs-if not *the* song that ushered in the electro/¤4futuristic-funk era. It's the early 80's: post-Star Wars (and pre-TRON, LOL!), robots are cool, computer games and arcades are happening, Kraftwerk are hip, synth-pop is starting to become all the rage in another musical context; the combination of Talkbox *and* synthesized basslines, drumclaps etc.-it's a smoking combination that just reeks early 80's...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
34401 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 10:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "RE: Why is Roger often given credit for changing the sound of Funk"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He is?

As tone said the talk box got him some buzz but I don't remember anyone back then saying he changed the sound of funk. When we saw Bootsy's name on that album we just saw it as an extension of what P Funk had been doing.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 10:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
6. "At least retroactively..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

I can't speak for at the time, but in the years since, "More Bounce" is very frequently hailed as The Record That Changed Everything, that sounded nothing like anything anybody had heard before.

Of course, as you noted... apart from the obvious Vaughan Mason influence (even in the title of the song), all of this synth-bass "bounce" stuff started with "Flashlight" and probably culminated with Kashif's most popular productions of the early to mid-80s.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
34401 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 10:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "It's revisionism then"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Don't get me wrong... Roger's talkbox was blowin' folks minds but wasn't anyone saying it was a brand new sound for funk. Actually the song I remember really shaking things up was I'm Ready by Kano. It was pretty disco based but that was being heard as some new future funk.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 11:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
8. "yeah, the Kano makes sense but"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I dunno... I hear that record with different ears, the same ears with which I listen to, say, Kraftwerk... I guess because they were Italian. I don't count it in the same continuum.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
34401 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 11:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "People didn't have as much info on the music back then"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

You just knew there was a new jam on the radio that hit... funny because I think we just assumed everyone was from the US. I remember being shocked when I found out Change was a studio group put together by Euros.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132212 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
58. "LOL, so did I"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>I remember being shocked when I found out Change was a
>studio group put together by Euros.

ditto for BB&Q and High Fashion, esp. BB&Q... because that music was so "Black" even compared to Change. It was the same brain trust, but they definitely had 3 different models for that "New York Sound".

there's one song on the first Change album that I felt gave away their real origins... it's the one that ends the B side

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Harlepolis
Member since Jan 09th 2011
1867 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 11:21 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "I Don't Think He Changed Funk Music Per Se, But,,,,"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He brought back the JB tradition with his slick and tight production, as opposed to the sparse production of the P-Funk crew.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 11:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "?"
In response to Reply # 9


          

>He brought back the JB tradition with his slick and tight
>production, as opposed to the sparse production of the P-Funk
>crew.

This is the second time here someone calls P-funk's production "sparse". I don't understand this-to me, it's the absolute opposite of sparse whereas both JB and Roger/Zapp sounds pretty sparse and downstripped to me...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
34401 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 11:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "Me either"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>This is the second time here someone calls P-funk's production
>"sparse". I don't understand this-to me, it's the absolute
>opposite of sparse whereas both JB and Roger/Zapp sounds
>pretty sparse and downstripped to me...

In fact, when I brought up Roger being an extension of what P Funk was already doing I almost added "all be it a more stripped down extension" Roger's shit was very clean and focused... P Funk's shit was borderline chaotic at times.


_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132212 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
72. "I would agree on both points"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>In fact, when I brought up Roger being an extension of what P
>Funk was already doing I almost added "all be it a more
>stripped down extension" Roger's shit was very clean and
>focused... P Funk's shit was borderline chaotic at times.

Yeah, and out of the related acts of P-Funk, I always felt Bootsy's records were more "down to earth"... that Zapp was close to Bootsy (esp. on that first record) makes a lot of sense

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Harlepolis
Member since Jan 09th 2011
1867 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 11:26 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "As Far As Harvey Mason..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think he was more at home with session work more so than being on the forefront. And as much as I like his albums, I don't find distinction in the.

When I hear a Roger record, I know its Roger, not just because of the talkbox, but because of the rhythm guitar, the drums and the moog bass.

When I listened to New Horizon's "Your Thing" for the first time, I knew right off the bat that Roger had some hands in this, lo & behold, he did.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
34401 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 11:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "He's talking about the group Vaughan Mason"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

You know the cats that did Bounce Skate Roll

As far as Roger having a sound... no doubt you knew a Roger record when you heard it. But it wasn't like everyone was jacking that sound. It was pretty much Roger and his side acts that sounded like that.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:14 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "Vaughn Mason is a group and not a person? LOLOL."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

no wonder they/he are a funky footnote instead of **ROGER AND/OR ZAPP**.

they need to fire their PR person if they're a group, lol. this is the first i've heard of this and i've been jamming to that song for years.

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
34401 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "Vaughn Mason is a person"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Vaughn Mason & Crew is the name of the band
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:00 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
52. "aahhhhh, you right. lol. n/m."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>Vaughn Mason & Crew is the name of the band

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Harlepolis
Member since Jan 09th 2011
1867 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:34 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "I Misread it...."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>Vaughn Mason & Crew is the name of the band
>_________________________________
>Reunion Radio Podcasts
>Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance
>
>http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

My mistake.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 11:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "Knowing Vaughn personally I can assure you this post is overrated"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Aug-26-11 11:47 AM by Artful Dodger

          

and I'll leave it there.

The credit - so belongs - to Roger.
Peace.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
16. "thanks for posting."
In response to Reply # 15
Fri Aug-26-11 12:02 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "More Bounce to the ounce was a "harder" sound than the mason record"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

thus the title....it was MORE bounce....MUCH more bouuuuunce...

as was the MO of P-Funk at the time (more bounce to the ounce was co-produced by Bootsy Collins and he also played guitar on it) .... they took what was being done at the time...and then went super bedyond it....often making either references to specific groups, song titles or styles that other groups were using at the time..

so it was MORE BOUNCE....


I wouldn't say that it "changed the sound of funk" ...it wasn't the first record that used the synth as the bass line/drum thing..... there weren't a lot of recrods that really copied it after...

I would say it was a unique song in that it took that style and put an edge to it that didn't exist prior...

I will also say that it was a straight urban street banger...really maybe unlike any song that came before it....People talk about when that song dropped and the stories are the same throughout the country...it was bumped out of the low riders or the slick cats plush rides....it was bumped at the park next to the basketball court....The song did represent something very specific in urban Black america when it dropped....


I'd also say that it's one of 3 Roger/Zapp singles that really stand out as huge smash hits in that same urban way ....More Bounce.....Computer Love.....and Dance Floor (doo wa ditty and grapevine did also, but Dance Floor got even more urban airplay when it first dropped)

More Bounce didn't change funk per se...but it was a hugely impactful record...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132212 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
56. "yep... "
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

>I will also say that it was a straight urban street
>banger...really maybe unlike any song that came before
>it....People talk about when that song dropped and the stories
>are the same throughout the country...it was bumped out of the
>low riders or the slick cats plush rides....it was bumped at
>the park next to the basketball court....The song did
>represent something very specific in urban Black america when
>it dropped....

In a way, that song represented a changing of the guard. I can't really put it into words.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "Yep whereas Vaughn Mason's record merely captured that time"
In response to Reply # 56
Fri Aug-26-11 01:38 PM by Artful Dodger

          

period very well. Disco was peaking out and then would soon suffer it's own self implosion, the 80's were coming - it's a perfect fit for that 79-81 range. I mean there were other records that sounded similar to it. Roger on the other hand.. whew.
Not even a comparison. Again, revisionism at it's finest in this wack ass post.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
71. "I would say that the guys that would go on to make a certain "
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

type of hip hop....whether it would be like a G-Funk west coast thing, or the type of thing that an EPMD was doing.... I would say that More Bounce opened the door to that type of thing...

it was a predocessor I guess you'd say.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
76. "Yep like I pointed out - imagine cats trying to rework Vaughn Mason"
In response to Reply # 71
Fri Aug-26-11 02:50 PM by Artful Dodger

          

in the 80's and 90's.

Then try Roger. Roger was simply ahead of his time and not to mention, a real musician. Vaughn merely a studio head chasing the cusp of the sound at that time. This post is clearly an attempt for attention.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
84. "right...the line of thinking that hip hop evolved from Funk "
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

...I mean if you buy into that school of thought...which I do very much so.... More Bounce...not just the record itself but the enviornment that record came out in urban America at the time...that would be one of the influentinal points in that lineage...of Funk to Hip hop.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
86. "Completely agree and some cats call that period 'the bridge'"
In response to Reply # 84


          

cause it incorporated the funk techniques of the past

real bass and drum lines

with the future

combined with electronic drums and synth lines that doubled on top of the bass line... creating a much more harder bottom and rhtyhm section.

Yep.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "there are a handful of songs that would include more bounce..."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

flashlight....and even add Burn Rubber and Humpin to that ...as well as a few other Zapp and Pfunk tunes...

at that same time you were seeing the rise of what would be called Electro-Funk.... with Records like planet rock...pack jam.....I need a freak..... some of Egyptian Lovers early songs... that was when you saw the elements of hip hop as a genre starting to merge with the funk that was happening....into a variation which again some call electro-funk....

like you say that time folks call the Bridge..... shows that musical lineage that I think a lot of people dissmiss...as I've said on here before people look at hip hop as being born in a vaccum ...something out of nothing, as opposed to as an evolution of the music at the time.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
89. "yeah that's real.. "
In response to Reply # 88


          

it amazes me how anyone could take that novelty record (a good one, but still) like Vaughn Mason and dare compare it to Rogers staple recording. I mean, c'mon man.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:11 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "i just re-read this and got pissed."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>when that record was an adaptation of an earlier (and
>superior) record by Vaughan Mason and in fact was part of a
>whole slew of songs that jumped on Mason's "bounce"
>bandwagon?

and superior? FOH.

>Actually, why is Vaughan Mason so slept-on in general? Maybe
>because he didn't really put out that much material, he
>doesn't have a cool name and his "Crew" was kinda faceless in
>general.

you answered your own question.

>Anyway... Roller-skating music. Fuck yeah.

true.

i'm still mad tho.

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
21. "taking nothing at all away from Roger"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

Bounce, Rock, Skate, Roll just... *swangs* more to me.

And I actually prefer the more "organic" sound it has.








(stay mad)

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "Personal opinion - nothing in this post is factual tho bro."
In response to Reply # 21


          

first off Vaughn mason brought nothing new to the table.

Nothing.

Roger had real talent tho man.

There is nothing fresh sounding in Roll Bounce - although i can't front I love that record too.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
25. "actually, there are many things in this post that are factual."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Unfortunately, none of them are things written by you.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "C'mon man stop being snarky. I don't agree and this just seems"
In response to Reply # 25
Fri Aug-26-11 12:41 PM by Artful Dodger

          

like another "AFKAP's opinions should be law for everyone - accept or you suck" post. haha.. I'm not trying to argue man I'm just trying to see your point.

When you can say Vaughn Mason was half the musician Roger was...
then you have a post. Til then this might as well be a
Ready for the World vs Giorgio post for real.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
"RE: C'mon man stop being snarky. I don't agree and this just seems"


  

          

>like another "AFKAP's opinions should be law for everyone -
>accept or you suck" post. haha.. I'm not trying to argue man
>I'm just trying to see your point.
>
>When you can say Vaughn Mason was half the musician Roger
>was...
>then you have a post. Til then this might as well be a
>Ready for the World vs Giorgio post for real.

Again... All this bullshit is irrelevant.

Vaughan Mason dropped his record before Roger and Roger's record was a reply to Vaughan's.

That's the point of my post and THAT'S FACT.

I don't know nothing about all this other yang you poppin'

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "haha.. yang. So you are saying More Bounce was a response "
In response to Reply # 0


          

to Vaughn. Not just yet another record dead smack in the middle of the roller skating/party/soon to be post disco movement?

See that's new information to me - can I have a link or a source for that? Cause that is dope information.

Considering Rodgers record was lightyears ahead of Vaughn's in production - I think that still answers the question why is he credited for changing the sound of funk in the 80's. Rodger did that with various recordings not just the one 12inch and single.

Vaughn never had a powerful followup. Rodger was consistent.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:59 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "it DOES swang more. Roger's shit is HARD."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

in slightly hip hoppish terms, it's more of a 2 bar loop vs. Vaughn's 4 bar loop. Roger's two bars don't travel too much. Vaughn's...while funky as hell...moves up the scale pretty far, swings you around a bit, then back to the steady low note for the first three beats.

i forgot what my point was...but yeah, it does *swing* more. Roger's shit is more immediate gratification, imo. it's right there in your face...and it's not moving.

and those claps, man. sloppy as fuck, loud as hell. funky as humans can be.

(side note: there is a distinct difference in the clarity/engineering of these records as well. i don't own the original VM record, but i've never heard a version that was crystal clear. the mix is pretty dingy. it DOES slightly detract from the song and places More Bounce on a higher plane.)

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
53. "yep... you are right on here:"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

>(side note: there is a distinct difference in the
>clarity/engineering of these records as well. i don't own the
>original VM record, but i've never heard a version that was
>crystal clear. the mix is pretty dingy. it DOES slightly
>detract from the song and places More Bounce on a higher
>plane.)

You're right on with the other shit you said too (particularly the musical analysis of both records) but yeah... the Vaughan Mason record sounds like it was mixed in a basement while Zapp's sounds like it was mixed on a spaceship.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "Simply put could you imagine a reinterpretation of Vaughn's record"
In response to Reply # 53
Fri Aug-26-11 01:22 PM by Artful Dodger

          

in the late 80's.. or 90's? No cause it wreaked of that particular period - very similar to Chic, even Queens "Bite the Dust" -space around the bass lines. Staccato stabs. everything.

Now try the same for Roger. Raj wins.

Post over.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132212 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
82. "LMFAO!"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

>You're right on with the other shit you said too (particularly
>the musical analysis of both records) but yeah... the Vaughan
>Mason record sounds like it was mixed in a basement while
>Zapp's sounds like it was mixed on a spaceship.

that brought to mind those Twilight records that were reissued in the height of Dam-Funk Madness. The second one, PAINS OF LOVE, sounds not only like it was recorded in a basement but in a basement where the years 1984 and 1985 never happened.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
54. "Yep. Raj wins again and again."
In response to Reply # 51
Fri Aug-26-11 01:02 PM by Artful Dodger

          

But according to Kap in this post - it's not about production.

haha..

then what is it about?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "if I had to place the term "organic" on either song"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

More Bounce would get that title by far..

I equate a level of "rawness" to things that are organic...

and More bouce is more raw than bounce rock skate..

bounce rock skate is too "cute" to be organic in comparison to More Bounce..

plus..the songs that sound similar in style to bounce rock skate..that list of songs would be way longer than the songs at the tiem that sounded like More Bounce..... in that way More Bounce was a much more unique song stylisticlly than bounce rock skate..

both great songs though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
73. "Amen not even an argument."
In response to Reply # 69
Fri Aug-26-11 02:44 PM by Artful Dodger

          

Just like I said - the staccato bass lines were the thing at that point with records like Chic, Queen, and a whole host of others with that same approach. More Bounce? Nothing like it. Closest record i can even try to equate to that and prolly the only two in history that were original (and didn't same the very record in question)?

Atomic Dog
Erotic City.

Both had that same effect as More Bounce, to me.


"plus..the songs that sound similar in style to bounce rock skate..that list of songs would be way longer than the songs at the tiem that sounded like More Bounce..... in that way More Bounce was a much more unique song stylisticlly than bounce rock skate..

both great songs though."

Yep, both dope records.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
75. "organic as in 'the instruments sound more "real"'"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

Vaughan Mason's record is OBVIOUSLY vastly less "produced" than Zapp's... and it is definitely more "raw" if you want to use that word (though I would prefer not to)

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "I agree with Kap on this - the mix was at least. "
In response to Reply # 75


          

I don't think the initial production technique was however.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
87. "you listen to the rhythm guitar line Bootsy is playing under the "
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

beat on More Bounce???

it's simplistic...."raw" ....and real sounding.....it's actually my favorite part of the song..lol.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
92. "ya know I was unaware that was Mr. Collins... that is crazzzzzyyy"
In response to Reply # 87


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 04:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
94. "Bootsy was a killer on the rhythm guitar....stands to reason though"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

being that Catfish was phenominal on it..

Bootsy was a dope ass drummer too..... a lot of the more famous P-Funk tracks Bootsy was on drums on the record..

and I'm trying to remember which Brides of Funkenstein song it is where he's on drums....but he kills it something terrible...you really can peep his style on it....I'll post the name of the song when it comes to me.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 04:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
95. "The Vaughan Mason record has a very similar rhythm guitar part"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

except that it is less glossy and spit-shined... and it sounds more "real" and "raw"

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 04:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
97. "dude...you would honestly call that line Bootsy is playing"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

"spit shinned and glossy"....lol

come on man..... there is nothing glossy about it...


and you are right....not only is there a similar line on the bounce rock song...but the basslines are super similar..

that's why I think More Bounce was an answer record in the vein that Pfunk was doing back then....thus the title MORE Bounce....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "Not to mention I don't get the whole 'new sound' abt Vaughn Mason"
In response to Reply # 18


          

the record came out in 81.

LeChic, in my opinion, had long opened that stable.

This post, not Kap cause I definitely commend him for bringing up the past again, is just not solid. It's revisionist.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
24. "It came out in 1979."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>the record came out in 81.

so, uh... no.

>LeChic, in my opinion, had long opened that stable.

"Le Chic" (I think you mean "Le Freak") is a completely different kind of record. I'm surprised you would even compare the two.

Well... Not really surprised, as non sequitur is your MO, but you get what I mean.

Anyway, while "Le Freak" has the big handclap on the chorus, it doesn't have the thick, repetitive synth-bass, which WAS a very new sound.

>This post, not Kap cause I definitely commend him for bringing
>up the past again, is just not solid. It's revisionist.

uh huh. I see.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "Um it reached number one in 1980/Was actually released in 78'"
In response to Reply # 24
Fri Aug-26-11 12:32 PM by Artful Dodger

          

Vaughan Mason & Crew was an American funk and post disco based group, best known for their single "Bounce, Rock, Skate, Roll", which reached #5 on the US Billboard Black Singles chart in 1980.

Was AC

Either way Le Chic had them.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "Wait a minute "I Want Your Love" Trumps all this!!!!! Yo!"
In response to Reply # 26


          

and if that isn't the precursor... shrugs!?!?! hahaha

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
34. "RE: Wait a minute "I Want Your Love" Trumps all this!!!!! Yo!"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

>and if that isn't the precursor... shrugs!?!?! hahaha

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
31. "RE: Um it reached number one in 1980/Was actually released in 78'"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

>Vaughan Mason & Crew was an American funk and post disco
>based group, best known for their single "Bounce, Rock, Skate,
>Roll", which reached #5 on the US Billboard Black Singles
>chart in 1980.
>
>Was AC
>
>Either way Le Chic had them.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
32. "RE: Um it reached number one in 1980/Was actually released in 78'"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

>Vaughan Mason & Crew was an American funk and post disco
>based group, best known for their single "Bounce, Rock, Skate,
>Roll", which reached #5 on the US Billboard Black Singles
>chart in 1980.
>
>Was AC
>
>Either way Le Chic had them.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "Chic. Forgive i don't live in the 70's all day man lol"
In response to Reply # 24
Fri Aug-26-11 12:31 PM by Artful Dodger

          

Nah the production of Chic and Nile Rodgers had Vaughn by a few years man.

Obviously I'm posting like what difference does this even make.

First Roger's double bass approach alone trumps Vaughn.

I like Vaughn don't get me wrong, but he was a studio head man, not a master musician like Roger. That I do know.

Nah I was serious I'm glad you bring this up - I find it more interesting than "is Jeezy relevant".. even if I get the dates wrong.

I'm not as old as you cats (I think) so I love the discussion.

However. No. lol.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
28. "You changing the terms of the debate."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

I never said that Roger was not a genius or that Vaughan Mason was.

I never brought the issue of genius into it.

The question is about a new funk sound that became popular sometime around 1980 and why one person seems to get credit for it a lot of times when another person had a big hit with it first.

That's all that matters.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
35. "No I'm not production is the debate. Roger wins."
In response to Reply # 28
Fri Aug-26-11 12:35 PM by Artful Dodger

          

Bottom line your original post claimed Vaughn did things that were new to funk - Roger, Nile Rodgers as well had BOTH long since beat him to it.

Roger redefined technique for funk recordings. It's really not an argument.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
37. "Jesus Christ you are annoying."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

>Bottom line your original post claimed Vaughn did things that
>were new to funk - Roger, Nile Rodgers as well had BOTH long
>since beat him to it.
>
>Roger redefined technique for funk recordings. It's really
>not an argument.

How can Roger win when we've established that Vaughan's dropped like a year before Zapp?

And why are you comparing shit like Chic's "I Want Your Love" which is full of lush horns and strings when this post is clearly talking about the stripped-down, post-disco "roller skating music"

Seriously, dude... You are out of your depth here. Instead of talking about shit you don't know about and then editing your post 20 times in 30 minutes, you need to sit your ass down somewhere.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "doesn't matter cause Roll Bounce doesn't have the prod equivalent"
In response to Reply # 37
Fri Aug-26-11 12:43 PM by Artful Dodger

          

of Rodgers feat work. It's a great record but it's not groundbreaking to funk. Rodger on the other hand cracked that dome a few times. I mean what's the point in posting if your not ready for counter posts. The argument isn't 'who released their record first man'.

It really isn't.

Again, please show me what Vaughn Mason did that Nile Rogers hadn't done with Chic.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
44. "RE: doesn't matter cause Roll Bounce doesn't have the prod equivalent"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

>of Rodgers feat work. It's a great record but it's not
>groundbreaking to funk. Rodger on the other hand cracked that
>dome a few times. I mean what's the point in posting if your
>not ready for counter posts. The argument isn't 'who released
>their record first man'.
>
>It really isn't.
>
>Again, please show me what Vaughn Mason did that Nile Rogers
>hadn't done with Chic.

Look at this nigger trying to tell me "the argument isn't who released their record first" IN MY OWN POST where I DEFINED WHAT THE ARGUMENT WAS.

smh

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "Okay then "
In response to Reply # 44


          

since you wanna go there try the Nile Rogers point I positioned.

If it is based on releases - technically Rodger was already around and opening for Pfunk on many dates well before that record went big.. .neither here nor there..

okay fine.. then what did Vaughn Mason accomplish that Nile Rogers had not?

That's all I'm saying. Nigga or not.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
49. "Just so you know: I'm not replying to you after this."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

I'm degrading myself by going back and forth with someone who appears to be posting through a drunken haze.

Sober up and come back later.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
50. "You won't cause you can't. "
In response to Reply # 49
Fri Aug-26-11 12:59 PM by Artful Dodger

          


you didn't answer one question and that's a drunken haze?

again

Okayplayer doesn't pay fam

I'm working and typing

I don't get an award for knowing who's record came out first nor is posting emotional for me.

C'mon with the Days of Our Lives bullshit we are not at the UN fam.

Seriously.

Just a message board - I have nothing against you.

Soooo again, what did Vaughn accomplish that NIle Rogers had not?

Simple.

Also where is your source that More Bounce was an answer to Vaughn Mason - that's great info I would love to know. I'm not even saying that you are wrong cause i didn't know that and that's ill if it's true. Would make me go back to both.

My guess is you won't answer cause you can't. You know I'm right.

Shrugs.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
38. "RE: No I'm not production is the debate. Roger wins."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

>Bottom line your original post claimed Vaughn did things that
>were new to funk - Roger, Nile Rodgers as well had BOTH long
>since beat him to it.
>
>Roger redefined technique for funk recordings. It's really
>not an argument.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
33. "RE: Chic. Forgive i don't live in the 70's all day man lol"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

>Nah the production of Chic and Nile Rodgers had Vaughn by a
>few years man.
>
>Obviously I'm posting like what difference does this even
>make.
>
>First Roger's double bass approach alone trumps Vaughn.
>
>I like Vaughn don't get me wrong, but he was a studio head
>man, not a master musician like Roger. That I do know.
>
>Nah I was serious I'm glad you bring this up - I find it more
>interesting than "is Jeezy relevant".. even if I get the dates
>wrong.
>
>I'm not as old as you cats (I think) so I love the
>discussion.
>
>However. No. lol.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "Please show me what Vaughn did that Nile Rodgers hadn't."
In response to Reply # 33
Fri Aug-26-11 12:38 PM by Artful Dodger

          

Seriously.

I'm working and typing and fucking up.

But I'm interested.

Hell you might be right I'm just not seeing it.

haha.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
40. "SYNTH BASS."
In response to Reply # 36
Fri Aug-26-11 12:44 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

End of story.

Good bye!

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "Nah son. Your argument aint valid at all. Rodger/synth bass"
In response to Reply # 40
Fri Aug-26-11 12:46 PM by Artful Dodger

          

the double bass technique of live and synth bass was one of his staple charms - between him and Marcus Miller using that technique (eventually Prince as well) that alone would become the standard 80's sound.

You have to be kidding. Or maybe you are not, explain.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
45. "RE: Nah son. Your argument aint valid at all. Rodger/synth bass"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>the double bass technique of live and synth bass was one of
>his staple charms - between him and Marcus Miller using that
>technique (eventually Prince as well) that alone would become
>the standard 80's sound.
>
>You have to be kidding. Or maybe you are not, explain.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "I love how when you don't have an argument you do this."
In response to Reply # 45


          

As you were with the world according to AFKAP Bs.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:11 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "--------------SHUCKS---------------"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

buildingblock
Charter member
100000 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 12:43 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
42. "i'm just here for the inevitable wc and afkap bnf"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...a child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind, god is smilin' on you and frownin' too, because only god knows what you gonna do...©melle mel

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
buildingblock
Charter member
100000 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:38 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "oh, ad has replaced wc in the playoffs?"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

...a child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind, god is smilin' on you and frownin' too, because only god knows what you gonna do...©melle mel

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
60. "the bamma stay bamming up posts"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

Funny thing is that he's calling me a revisionist.... and this is a clown who endless revises his posts in the middle of conversations, papering over meaning until nobody can even figure out what the point was in the first place.

I don't know why he's got this hard on for me (yes homo)

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "I don't know why I imagine you in a house coat and a cigarette"
In response to Reply # 60
Fri Aug-26-11 01:45 PM by Artful Dodger

          

but...

maybe it's the bitchy style posting?

I dunno.

Wack ass Vaugh Mason versus Roger... c'mon son try harder. How bad are you seeking attention really.

What's next? All R&B singers are secretly mimicking

Steve "Slinky Time" Jenkins from his 1912 classic
"Girl I Loves Ya"? Nigga please.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132212 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
62. "This post made me think of something else: SYNTH BASS"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Aug-26-11 01:51 PM by Dr Claw

  

          

I point back to Stevie for popularizing it in R&B and funk music, though others (around the same time, notably Todd Rundgren) had incorporated it before the "Flashlight" explosion.

There's a certain bit of "Stevie-ism" that I've talked about with synth-bass playing from the late 1970s (when his own started to change) into the early '80s that is one of my favorite things in music. It's that extra bit of "punch" put on when doing fill ins (I've learned that the portamento effect does it), like you're "mad" at the keys or something (see: "Higher Ground" and parts of "Superstition").

There's another convention that the latest Phonte/9th song reminded me of as well... it's a figure that 9th brought out of that Rose Royce record that wasn't there originally, but was a very common thing to do in the early '80s as R&B really got synth-friendly. (see: Rene & Angela's "I Love You More", the opening bits)

And then there's Lionel Richie-ism. I don't think Lionel himself played those parts, but it's an integral "Commodores" sound with the synth bass that dates back to "Machine Gun" that followed Lionel when he went solo (see: "You Are", "Serves You Right")... Motown seemed to have the monopoly on a certain bass groove that was used in the early '80s. There was actually a Prodigy (of Mobb Deep) record, a track on PRODUCT OF THE '80s, name escapes me that uses that "Lionel Richie" figure, even though I think it was played "fresh" for the record.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 01:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
63. "On the Rene & Angela are you talking about"
In response to Reply # 62
Fri Aug-26-11 01:56 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

the synth figure that plays just behind the piano chords in the intro?

(That piano sound is itself so quintessentially early 80s too)

As for the Lionel Richie-ism... what do you mean? Like, I can hear it in the context of the Commodores, but is it something he carried with him into his solo career (like the beginning of "You Are" maybe)?

EDIT: Or do you mean that thick, shattering synth that actually plays the "bassline" (it's more stabs than a melody) on the Rene & Angela?

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132212 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
64. "This."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

>EDIT: Or do you mean that thick, shattering synth that
>actually plays the "bassline" (it's more stabs than a melody)
>on the Rene & Angela?

and yeah, the marriage of the piano w/the synth bassline is quintessential '80s... that's one of my favorite sounds on EARTH.

re: the "Richie" bass figure... it was the thing that made a lot of Commodores songs what they were (and yes, I do mean that part on "You Are"): "Zoom" is a good example. It was all over that first album, the second not so much, but I can swear you hear it even in more recent work. Chicago had 2 songs on CHICAGO 16 that brought Richie to mind because of the synthbass work: "Sonny Think Twice", and "What Can I Say".

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
65. "Yep double bass. Bass player and synth bass together."
In response to Reply # 64


          

I mentioned this earlier.

Was told production wasn't the issue here. lol.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132212 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
66. "????"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

I need to go back to the Rene @ Angela record, but I don't recall a "double-bass" effect in that song. It was frequently used (in some cases, rather subtly... the bass was more of a percussive/popping effect) in the '80s but I was speaking strictly on the synth bass alone and the figures that were used when played.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
67. "No not in that song - I didn't mention that song earlier - but the "
In response to Reply # 66
Fri Aug-26-11 02:35 PM by Artful Dodger

          

technique - and Rene and Angela did use that technique on a few recordings but I would have to pull em out to say which ones. It was a big production technique in the 80's and what i'd stated was that everyone from Roger to Marcus Miller to eventually Prince incorporated that sound. a huge bold bass sound.

when we discussed Roger being credited for 'changing funk' or being billed as 'the future of the funk' this is just one of the many reasons why. Beyond the tube voice box (big difference than just the voice box) and his style of recording, engineering and mixing.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
70. "like i said... bamming up the post."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

and talking shit he don't know.

I'm sure he'll keep editing until he arrives at something vaguely resembling a point, though

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
74. "I never mentioned Rene and Angel bruh and my point stands."
In response to Reply # 70
Fri Aug-26-11 02:47 PM by Artful Dodger

          

Grab Miles Davis' book he speaks openly about Marcus Miller's production and production at that time regarding the double bass.

Unlike you I'll give a source.

Miles Davis autobiography as told to Quincy Troupe - I invite anyone to read that section.

It's reality fam.

bamming my ass.

If anyone fucked up it's you comparing a novelty record like Skate Bounce to a real classic like More Bounce.

Didn't answer my questions either.

What did Vaughn Mason do that Nile Rogers hadn't done already?

Also provide a link or source to the claim that Roger's "More Bounce" was a direct response record to Vaughn Mason.

Again, not even arguing just wanna know where you got that info from.

Thanks Kaptain Revisionist.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
78. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 02:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "You can't - that's why you are laughing. "
In response to Reply # 78
Fri Aug-26-11 02:58 PM by Artful Dodger

          

Not to mention a desperate attempt to keep this wack ass post alive.

Note - stop listening to your Ipod, then coming on Okp with some bullshit about how lives were changed just cause the coffee got you goin man. C'mon.

What next? Full Force is more of an influence than the Beatles?

sure man. sure.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
81. "I'm laughing at your bamma-ism."
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

Asking me to cite sources for what?

For MY OPINION?

I said I prefer "skate Rock Roll Bounce"... I have to provide SOURCES to justify my own personal preference?

All I said was that Vaughan Mason used that sound a year before Roger. This has been confirmed and you admitted that I was right about it (after editing your post like 4 different times as you furiously Googled the info).

So what are the sources for again?

LOL

It's like you're playing tennis without a net.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
85. "way to skirt around your lies fam and move the goal posts"
In response to Reply # 81
Fri Aug-26-11 03:08 PM by Artful Dodger

          

did you not say More Bounce was in response to Vaughn Mason?
where is your source on that? or did you go back and cover your ass on that comment as well? smh. as always.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                            
OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
34401 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
90. "It's kinda unreasonable to think Roger wasn't influenced by VM though"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

At least a little bit. I mean that song was first and was a big enough hit that Roger had to have heard it. And is wasn't like Zapp's first album had the "Zapp Sound" all over it. More Bounce wasn't really indicative of how the rest of the album sounded... and I remember seeing Roger talk about how More Bounce was the last track they cut for that album. I'm not saying he straight jacked VM but we can't act like More Bounce was created in a vacuum either.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
91. "that could be said for any record that hit big tho. that wouldn't be fa..."
In response to Reply # 90
Fri Aug-26-11 03:21 PM by Artful Dodger

          

I mean you could say that about Another One Bites the Dust
Flashlight, One Nation, chic - mind you I agree with you - but isn't that gonna be the case regardless? Also, that's a guesstimation - for anyone to suggest that Vaughn Mason was the future of funk...
I dunno.

my point, there would have to be something definitive about Vaughn Mason's record, that only that record could suggest, to make that point.

Nah.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
34401 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 03:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
93. "That's what I'm saying"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

>I mean you could say that about Another One Bites the Dust
>Flashlight, One Nation, chic - mind you I agree with you - but
>isn't that gonna be the case regardless?

Nothing really just comes out of thin air.... even the most ground breaking shit has elements of what came before it and whats going on at the time

> Also, that's a
>guesstimation - for anyone to suggest that Vaughn Mason was
>the future of funk...

I'm not saying that at all... In fact I disagreed with the idea Roger was seen that way too. Prince was the only cat from that era that I remember really flipping shit around and making everyone chase his sound.


_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                        
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 06:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
99. "we saying the same thing - I def agree about Prince as well"
In response to Reply # 93


          

it's true.. perhaps the 'roger sound' were speaking of came out of a sect of musicians.. kinda fair to say considering his records were joint efforts, he'd been opening as an extended pfunkster for some time, his musical ability was off the charts and quite honestly he was one of the most gifted musicians of his era. So yeah I'm with you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 04:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
96. "I can't help but think More Bounce was indirectly an answer record"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

being that the bass lines are similar...

the titles are similar...

and being that Pfunk was involved, they had a history of "answering" other records and artists..

it was like...yeah..that was BOUNCE rock skate....but this is MORE BOUNCE..to the ounce..

I dunno..maybe i'm seing connections that aren't there...but that's a lot of connection to just be by chance

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
OldPro
Member since Dec 10th 2002
34401 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 05:42 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
98. "You just made a pretty strong case"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

I never really thought about it like that but seeing it all laid out that way makes me believe it very well could have been the case.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                        
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 07:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
103. "I dunno... roller skating music already had a trend going and in some "
In response to Reply # 98


          

parts of the country wasn't it called bounce music? Cause honestly what Vaughn did was pull out a call and response that was happening on the east coast already at roller rinks everywhere.

Also for some reason - and I could be totally off the mark - I always thought there were parts to more bounce.. .like a 1 and 2 and that's what that was. Not sure and I'm no where near my vinyl collection cause of this damn storm.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 06:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
100. "very valid point WC"
In response to Reply # 96


          

because Clinton and crew are like that is cute fine and dandy but this how it is suppose to be done.

if clinton's camp didn't think much of you then they wouldn't come after you.respect

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                        
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 07:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
105. "I don't even think it was them having disdain for others"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

as much as it was like they were motivated to Go Beyond what others were doing......like in every way....

that element about them really motivated other artists....Rick James spoke on it in the One Nation Documentary.....dude from Earth Wind and Fire said the same in that Funk Documentary....

that pushed other artists..and the genre itself to keep evolving and pushing to make great albums, and rip the roof off of arenas...

that's what's missing in todays music

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                            
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 08:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
106. "makes sense that's how real musicians get down.."
In response to Reply # 105
Fri Aug-26-11 08:10 PM by Artful Dodger

          

gospel cats
jazz cats
rock heads
beatmakers
and so on.

today's musicians do it out of a need to be more famous, for them it came purely from a musical place.

Oh and I'm still really tripping off that footnote about Bootsy. I'ma rock that shit when I get home all night.

Sorta like what if you were just finding out about the P/Stevie Nicks footnote.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                                
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 06:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
112. "that Brides song I was thinking of with Bootsy on drums"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

is Holding you responsible..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA9kh4AoHkk

he had a funky style on the drums...


also...on the topic of pfunksters playing on tracks.... you hip to Bernie Worrell on the intro of this Dramatics song??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWo5AkPw4yw

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                            
mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 02:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
110. "competition and also watching the reaction"
In response to Reply # 105


          

clinton and crew wanted to command the funk and if you think they weren't up on anyone else getting on the turf then think again?

i mean Clinton kept his eyes on James brown, Sly and the Family stone and everybody else and would take folks from any camp to one up.

it brought out the best in others and it was competition.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
murph71
Member since Sep 15th 2005
23113 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 07:01 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
101. "RE: I can't help but think More Bounce was indirectly an answer record"
In response to Reply # 96


          



I can see your vision...

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                                    
Artful Dodger
Member since Nov 20th 2009
8361 posts
Fri Aug-26-11 07:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
104. "Man if that's true how ill is that????! ha."
In response to Reply # 96


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

eclassic
Member since Mar 16th 2007
195 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 12:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
107. "RE: Why is Roger often given credit for changing the sound of Funk"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i actually think Vaughn and Roger arent credited enough.

both put boogie and funk on the fore front.

sure alotta dudes sampled Roger....

(i guess you can consider that credit)

but i havent seen anyone making tributes dedicated to him.

www.radiogalaxy.bandcamp.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 12:41 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
108. "oh, really?"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

>but i havent seen anyone making tributes dedicated to him.
>

perhaps you may be interested in this post...

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=128159&mesg_id=128159&listing_type=search

this is a tribute that i did some years back...
http://www.usershare.net/gs0cpl1hi6wl


hope ya like it.

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
eclassic
Member since Mar 16th 2007
195 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 12:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
109. "RE: oh, really?"
In response to Reply # 108


          

noooo....no..

not on that scale.

im speaking on a much larger scale.

music awards...big concerts and such.

you dont see any well known artist paying homage to them dudes.

only person i see paying much homage to boogie and funk on a wide scale is DAM-FUNK.

thats a nice post.

im gonna DL that mix.

www.radiogalaxy.bandcamp.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
CanUooooFeeLiT
Member since May 11th 2005
2178 posts
Wed Aug-31-11 06:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
153. "RE: oh, really?"
In response to Reply # 109
Wed Aug-31-11 06:21 PM by CanUooooFeeLiT

  

          

Quik is always using that late 70s early 80s era of funk/boogie for inspiration and paid homage to Roger with a couple of songs after he died. Plus he uses the talk box from time to time on his albums.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 02:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
111. "Roger was a Great Musician, Average songwriter on a whole"
In response to Reply # 0


          

good Producer

good arranger

but the Voicebox gimmick hurt him because the cat wasn't much of a singer and he wanted to be Smokey Robinson Jr in the worst way on the Sho Nuff.

i followed his career and huge fan of his playing skills, but listening to him trying to croon was a trip but he hid behind the voicebox to cover his vocal shortcomings.

his songwriting wasn't nothing special, but he had so much groove and rhythm that it covered it up nicely except for folks like myself who value real songwriting.

he is important to Funk, but not the end all be all and he ain't quite top ten in the Funk All time, but he is high on the list.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 06:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
113. "his style didn't require him to be Curtis Mayfield with his songwriting"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

but I still say he's a hall of famer...

He has 3 records in More Bounce....Computer Love....and Dance Floor.... That as far as impact at the time when they came out....there are a lot of groups in the Hall of fame that didn't splash as hard with 1 song... Steely Dan comes to mind....but there are others..

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Mon Aug-29-11 01:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
151. "Steely Dan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zapp"
In response to Reply # 113


          

and it ain't even close and I loved Roger as a Musician, but Donald Fagan and Walter Becker be doing Keith Jarrett, Duke Ellington with other hybrids.

when did Joe Sample ever groove on a Roger and Zapp album and yet was doing session work and the Steely stuff was the sho nuff truth?

"Black cow" alone was sampled and flipped like a Hot cake at dennys all kinds of sideways.

"FM" is a beast of a Jam the Sax version and the Guitar solo version.

if you stick to grooves in your conversation i can say yes, but when you start talking about songwriting and impact you are off the mark.

naw never said that Roger had to be Curtis Mayfield, however the gimmick of the talkbox put him more closer to Frankie Smith than to curtis Mayfield especially when we are talking about songwriting.

Steely Dan has a wide range of hybrid sounds which Roger and Zapp never were seeing, Roger as a Musician can hang with a whole lot of cats, but as a Songwriter, Producer? Marginal at best.

the three cuts you mentioned are classic grooves and jams, but it ain't like they are exactly going to make Stevie Wonder to forget his glasses.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

builtfromwax
Member since May 01st 2007
1879 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 07:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
114. "u're so off base with crediting Vaughn, it ain't a good example..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

...yes it's a cool song, but from Vaughn himself...he bit the bass line from Chic's "Good Times," hired a singer he paid $75 for the session and had himself a multimillion dollar hit.

he's a sound engineer now in the DC/B'more area. i just so happen to be working this video shoot a couple years ago for some song on DC Statehood (we see how that's goin'). he's out there with us on break telling us how the music biz "used" to be. tellin' us stories about Dru Hill (which i can't remember...or really wasn't too interested in). so he eventually gets to talkin' about how life treated him.

he said he just wanted to have a hit record. the biggest record out at the time he said was "Good Times." so he hummed the bass line to the song and said, "there's went like that. i changed mine to sound like this..." a la Robert Van Winkle! there was no Crew, he said he basically got some session musicians, hired a singer and produced the song. he made millions off of it, but lost most of it after two divorces.

so the song u're using as an example has its origins in another song the artist himself said he lifted. basically a disco/dance song. aside from the bass line, nothin' funk-based about it.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

revolution75
Member since May 07th 2003
3372 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 07:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
115. "ok...ok..ok + making of more bounce from shock g"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

First of all, I'm not sure if there's a general consensus amongst historians that he changed the course of funk music.
And if he did, so what?
more bounce is a pivotal song in funk history
between that song and prince's keyboard/one man sex funk, that pushed the genre forward in2 the 80's

Second, Vaughn made a roller skate jam while more bounce was about....bouncing checks...i dont believe it was a response to roll bounce...that wasn't pfunk's style..those dude's had their own lane and wasn't copying from no one..

The person responsible for More Bounce wasn't Roger or Bootsy as the previous folks are saying....the person responsible for More Bounce's eclectic sound was..................George Clinton


Here's Shock G telling the story:

Okay, and while we’re at it, one more juicy little-known gem about the man: He’s responsible for the rhythm arrangement of “More Bounce to the Ounce” by Zapp(!!) Yes, George Clinton, in a little bit of a fluke, a little studio savvy, and a bit of luck, actually gave Roger that sound, that formula that Roger went on to use on his next 3 follow-up singles; “I Can Make You Dance”, “So Ruff, So Tuff”, and “Dance Floor”, That chunky stutter bass against the thick handclap? Zapp & Roger’s signature sound and main money maker? It was a George Clinton creation. (Doh!)

Very true. That sound is the result of George cutting a 2-foot long piece out of the 2-inch multi tape, flipping it around backwards, looping it to itself, and then slowing it down to the current speed of “More Bounce”. Apparently, Roger’s original groove was faster and a lot busier. They said it was in a vein like his “Heard it through the Grapevine” song: fast and choppy with a busy chord progression, and the bass was all over the place, an elaborate melody.

George, who was producing Roger’s first album for his new Uncle Jam label that year (which is another fascinating story: how the crazy older brother Larry Troutman sneak signed the group to Warner Bros. behind George’s back while he and Bootsy left the studio to get food. Yes, the same crazy brother who shot Roger dead 10 years later.)

Anywayz, earlier that day, while Zapp was still set to be the first new act on George’s label, George got concerned that Roger didn’t have anything they could use as a single yet, and that he needed something simpler then what he had heard so far, and that’s when he performed the tape trick.

The new slower piece in reverse created the rhythm and melody that became the infamous “More Bounce” kick-drum and synth-bass “B-B-Bomp CLAP-Bomp-Bomp” arrangement. With a smile George said “That’s all ya need right there. Just build the song around that”, and the rest became that beast of a record. If you listen closely, you can still hear the backwards bass & drums underneath; that was the first thing they started with, and then began overdubbing more tracks on a second 2-inch machine.

They told me that Roger also had about 10-times the lyric content he wound up using and that George convinced him to eliminate most of it and just keep repeating “mooore boooounce” they way he did. I was told this first hand by Boogie the bass player and Gary Shider, who were both also there that day.

And speaking of George’s Zen-like integrity; get this:
-after he had a verbal agreement from Roger and had been grooming him for months to be the first release on the new Uncle Jam label, and also after producing a good portion of his album so far, (including literally creating “More Bounce” for him), after all that, when George returned and learned that a Warner rep had showed up, went in the back room with Larry and Roger, talked him out of signing with George’s label in 5 minutes they said, and signed him directly to Warner–

They said George looked at them with disappointed eyes that said “Really?” looked down at the ground for a second, shook his head no, shrugged and said “Well, so much for that”, and turned around and walked out the studio.

The remaining P-Funk cats walked out after George, and I think they said Bootsy was the only one who stayed behind to help finish producing it, which is why Bootsy’s name appeared in the credit.

But yeah, George gave that classic song it’s essence as well as named the group “Zapp.” He never sued or spoke about it again, he just let it go, but I heard he was sad and heartbroken by it, as he had a friendship building with Roger prior to that incident.

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132212 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 07:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
116. "wow... that's wild"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

come to think of it, that song really stands out from the rest of that album

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
revolution75
Member since May 07th 2003
3372 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 08:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
117. "i noticed that too doc"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

as much as zapp + roger was known for song duplication, more bounce was never duplicated.

george's a bad mofo!!!

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 08:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
119. "It was *kinda* duplicated, though."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

As Shock G noted in the story you posted, the formula was revisited for "So Ruff, So Tuff" and "Dancefloor" though of course there are variations, for example... those songs have bridges and more melody and stuff.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 08:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
118. "v-e-r-y interesting!"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

and it makes sense since "More Bounce" really is a offshoot of "Flashlight" in some ways, and like The Doc said, it's very different from the rest of the album.

You have a link for that Shock G account?

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
revolution75
Member since May 07th 2003
3372 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 09:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
124. "here ya go bro"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

the topic of discussion can be a whole nother post
which i think it was on here a few years ago

http://hiphopandpolitics.wordpress.com/2010/08/21/is-george-clinton-a-pretender-shock-gs-open-letter-defending-p-funk/

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
buildingblock
Charter member
100000 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 08:13 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
120. "damn"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

...a child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind, god is smilin' on you and frownin' too, because only god knows what you gonna do...©melle mel

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 01:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
139. "btw that Shock G quote debunks what WC was saying"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

about "More Bounce" being "more organic" than "Skate, Rock, Roll, Bounce"... All that shit about cutting off pieces of tape and playing backwards is about the furthest you can get from "organic."

But even without knowing that background detail, I don't understand why anyone would say Zapp's record sounds "organic"... It sounds like the product of pure studio craftsmanship to me while Mason's record sounds like a band just playing music, right down to the bad mix.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 08:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
121. "I just now got what bamma-ass Aquaman was talking about"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

with regard to his references to Chic and Queen.

"Skate, Rock, Roll, Bounce" is clearly an attempt to play Chic's "Good Times" with a synth-bass (just as Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust" was an adaptation of "Good Times" also)

Unfortunately, AD is unable to make a coherent point and he kept referring to the wrong Chic songs, talking about "Le Chic" (ie "Le Freak") and "I Want Your Love," neither of which has anything to do with Vaughan Mason's record.

(Also, it's tough to have a conversation with AD because of his incessant editing. By the time you reply to him, he's changed the post to say something completely different. So you edited to respond to his updated post and by the time you hit "Post message" he's changed his post 2 more times.)

Anyway... the point still stands. Even if Vaughan bit the bassline, the fact that he played it on a keyboard is what created the paradigm I was referring to.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132212 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 08:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
122. "Yeah.... when I first read this post"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

I was kinda like, "but wasn't that song an offshoot of Good Times?" which to me is the QUINTESSENTIAL skate song... even says it in the lyrics. "Skate, Roll, Bounce" was notable in that it tried to ... I dunno the word, "humanize" the synth bass. Even when Stevie did it, while it was certainly organic, there was something that was definitely tied to the instrument when it was played.

I think I really need to flesh out this idea... I type this as I have the instrumental of the Prodigy song I mentioned (which is called "In The Smash") on loop.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 09:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
123. "Listening to it now"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

>I type this as
>I have the instrumental of the Prodigy song I mentioned (which
>is called "In The Smash") on loop.

Yeah, I can hear that Lionel Richie sound you're talking about, though I can't quite describe it myself lol

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
revolution75
Member since May 07th 2003
3372 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 09:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
126. "while we are on the subject of more bounce"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

does anyone else think that cutie pie's an offshoot of more bounce???

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132212 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 10:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
129. "as for the clap track and the 'hard' sound... yeah"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

>does anyone else think that cutie pie's an offshoot of more
>bounce???

the melody is not much similar, but the BOOM... CLAP sound, that street sound, hell yeah.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 11:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
131. "RE: while we are on the subject of more bounce"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

>does anyone else think that cutie pie's an offshoot of more
>bounce???

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2592515&mesg_id=2592515&page=#2592533

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
revolution75
Member since May 07th 2003
3372 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 09:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
125. "but.."
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

wasn't that paradigm already created with the synth bass holy trinity?
flashlight/one nation/knee deep???

Eclectic Soul/Sunday, 2-4 PM est/89.3 WCSB.ORG

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 11:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
134. "Not really... because except for 'Flashlight'"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

that big synth-bass was not as foregrounded.

And to my thinking at least, P-Funk's stuff was more like an experiment or revolutionary breakthrough... but not yet a "paradigm" that becomes a standard.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
builtfromwax
Member since May 01st 2007
1879 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 09:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
127. "lol, nice try..."
In response to Reply # 121


          

...a day later and 100-some posts in you specify what you meant.

Vaughn's still a VERY bad example. he can't be credited in the way u're trynna do. he was ridin' someone else's wave.

if anything, sonically and rhythmically "Holy Ghost" by the Bar-Kays would be a better song as an example than Vaughn's. especially when the beat changes.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 11:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
132. "I *did* specify what I meant."
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

Perhaps you just didn't read.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
builtfromwax
Member since May 01st 2007
1879 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 12:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
135. "actually, no you didn't..."
In response to Reply # 132


          

...you "wondered" why Roger garnered more credit than Vaughn Mason. then did a 180 and later said "what i was actually referring to was..." some shit about synth bass." no where do u say that in your OP. even crediting Vaughn with "changing the sound" of funk is misguided cuz, well...he didn't. as i said in my earlier post you giving him credit when i heard the man himself say he ripped off someone else. how much sense does that make? i'm speaking factually. u? speculatin' as usual w/o fact. there were other songs that were better at what you've been "wondering" about regarding the changing sound of funk. but for some reason you fixated on a one-hit wonder who knows he got over. lol!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 12:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
136. "Please go back and read through the responses."
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

>...you "wondered" why Roger garnered more credit than Vaughn
>Mason. then did a 180 and later said "what i was actually
>referring to was..." some shit about synth bass." no where do
>u say that in your OP.

I deliberately left the OP open-ended because many of my posts where I state my agenda outright from the beginning turn to big clusterfucks. Not that I have a problem with that per se, but I didn't have the time or energy for that on Friday.

I was looking to unfurl the argument based on the responses to the post and was doing so with MONOTONE and OP before AD came in and derailed the shit with his special brand of insanity.

even crediting Vaughn with "changing
>the sound" of funk is misguided cuz, well...he didn't. as i
>said in my earlier post you giving him credit when i heard the
>man himself say he ripped off someone else. how much sense
>does that make? i'm speaking factually. u? speculatin' as
>usual w/o fact.

Speculation is not a sin. My post was about musical examination and not so-called "fact." It's a way of making myself and others *think* about music analytically. I'm not trying to write a Vaughan Mason biography.

That said, Mason ripped off Chic's "Good Times" COMPOSITIONALLY and my post had less to do with composition than it was about the SOUND of Funk. The synth-bass, with the clap coupled with a certain minimalism that was not really present in "Flashlight."

Just read the fucking posts before you get in my face with your aggressive gotcha-ism. I have a hard time understanding why you assholes get so up in arms with a nigger just throwing questions out there. You don't agree with me? Fine... Say it. But why does it have to turn to a bloodsport every time it involves AFKAP?

Fuckin' bamma.

there were other songs that were better at
>what you've been "wondering" about regarding the changing
>sound of funk. but for some reason you fixated on a one-hit
>wonder who knows he got over. lol!

What does him being a one-hit wonder have to do with anything? I'm not talking about the scope of his career or calling him a "genius" (as that other bamma AD tried to move the goalpost to talk about). There have been many, many, many, many one-hit wonders that have changed the course of music... So what's your point?

That being said, "Jammin' BIg Guitar" was a moderate hit too.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
builtfromwax
Member since May 01st 2007
1879 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 12:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
137. "so when facts are presented to dead the speculation..."
In response to Reply # 136


          

...u take your toys and go home? nice! as i said earlier, Vaughn's a bad example to hinge your discussion on. i even provided an example with the Bar-Kays as a song that aggressively used a synth bass in a funk record to counter YOUR example. my point: pick another song cuz the one you chose doesn't hold up.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 12:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
138. "first of all, I supposedly 'took my toys and went home' because"
In response to Reply # 137
Sun Aug-28-11 12:52 AM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

I deliberately made a lightweight post to kill time on a Friday afternoon and once the time was sufficiently killed, I literally left the post and went home. But I actually left the toys behind for anybody who wanted to play with them.

There's no grand agenda being pushed here. Just a passing observation, as was made pretty clear in the skeletal nature of the original post.

You'll notice that after a certain point, I dropped out of the post completely and didn't come back till later. I didn't even see your post about the Bar-Kays and I have no idea what you're talking about.

That being said AGAIN, this was not about who used a synth bass in record first or anything like that. Obviously "Flashlight" came before all these and Stevie was using synth bass before that.

It was about a particular early 80s minimalist sound sometimes known as the "bounce" sound. If that was not made abundantly clear to you, maybe that's my failing (I don't know how that could be as I made that clear even in the sketchy OP). But maybe it would have made sense for you to ask for clarification as OP and MONOTONE and Claw did instead of coming to the post with an accusatory attitude.

EDIT: I just realized that I actually replied to the post where you mentioned the Bar-Kays. My bad... I thought you meant it was something you said earlier, before I came back.

Anyway... No. Just no. I don't know how the fuck you call "Holy Ghost" a bounce record. It's not even close.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 09:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
128. "To go with what Doc mentioned...we need to make a Synth Bass"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Aug-27-11 09:57 PM by Warren Coolidge

  

          

post discussing it's evolution and the different styles incorporated with it as it became a popular sound in Black music...

I mean we all know the highlights.... Pfunk and Bernie and them using it on Flashlight..... Stevie Wonder..... you know another angle is 2 guys who went on to use it pretty well during it's hey day had connections to Stevie in Ray Parker Jr.(Raydio) and Michael Henderson particularly with Wide Reciever....

some lesser known artists used it well during that time like Jerry Knight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEQHEuPFGB8

then of course the eletro funk era....the synth bass interplay with the drums, where later you start to see the concept of making "beats" from that sound...

getting into that area of hip hop coming from Funk..... the Rise of Prince .....

lots of interesting elements to this topic...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132212 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 10:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
130. "lmfao... off topic"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

>I mean we all know the highlights.... Pfunk and Bernie and
>them using it on Flashlight..... Stevie Wonder..... you know
>another angle is 2 guys who went on to use it pretty well
>during it's hey day had connections to Stevie in Ray Parker
>Jr.(Raydio) and Michael Henderson particularly with Wide
>Reciever....

I remember OldPro mentioning how "Wide Receiver" reminded him of the Steelers vs. Oilers on Monday Night Football, and on the Youtube link of that song, there's a comment by someone about how the song reminded him of a play where the Oilers got screwed by the refs because of the lyrics.

but yes. Good look on that Jerry Knight song, because that's definitely unique. "Wide Receiver" really was one of those songs that stressed its importance in Funk... that line could have easily been played on an electric bass, but because it wasn't...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sat Aug-27-11 11:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
133. "that's what I hoped this post would be before it got bammed up"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2592515&mesg_id=2592515&page=#2592533

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2592515&mesg_id=2592515&page=#2592540

I was hoping that from there we could move towards talking about how that sound moved from "More Bounce" to "Cutie Pie" to D-Train to Kashif and Evelyn Champagne, etc.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 01:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
140. "well Cutie Pie and More Bounce are definitely related in "
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

the fact that the syth bass line is accented with the drum beat ...they kind of blend together where they make the bass and drum one in the same... That sound along with how they hit in the urban areas ... See now that is where I would say that More Bounce was a game changer for Funk in a sense.... not just the fact that the synth bass was in it...but how it was used in a percussive since to blend with the drums....

that led right into the so called Electro-funk ....which led into hip hop......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuDvx-j8-5Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6zkbjOvXWo

we talked previously about the new jack swing...and hip hop soul.... a lot of that came out of the the electro-funk movement....which again was birthed out of the synth based funk of a Zapp...One way and the like...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 01:14 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
141. "I think electro-funk leading into hip-hop (or 'Rapp')"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

was more of a West Coast thing.

New York really had a very different hip-hop sound even though some east coast groups eventually did put out some synthier records.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 01:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
145. "the west coast certainly had an influence there...but the east coast"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

version of it was there too..... Planet Patrol...... Lisa Lisa Cult Jam.....Debbie Deb....Shannon's let the music play was released out of New York...

it was definitely a bi-coastal thing....

We could say that on both coasts you had a "Hip hop movement" that didn't exclusively utilize Rap.....You had singers singing lead on songs that were leaning towards a more r&b-ish style of the so-called electro funk...

I would say that Evelyn Champagne King begat Shannon's Let the music play.....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 01:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
146. "Shannon and Lisa Lisa weren't really coming out of hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 145
Sun Aug-28-11 02:14 AM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

but rather from the NYC Latin Freestyle scene... though they would also have an impact on hip-hop (Mantronix etc)

Good point on the Planet Patrol, though... All that Arthur Baker stuff, Jonzun Crew... Newcleus and Warp 9 as well.

Still it seems to me that rapp was much more wedded to electro on the West Coast than on the East where it was almost something of an side dish.

EDIT: Of course, how can I forget about Man Parrish, who might have actually kicked off the whole hip-hop/electro trend in the first place. But what I'm saying is that NYC had a hip-hop sound before the electro thing before whereas I get the sense that on the West Coast, the electro thing is what made hip-hop popular there in the first place.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Warren Coolidge
Charter member
41996 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 01:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
143. "The Bar Kays use of the synth bass was monumental"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

as far as the double up with the synth bass and the bass guitar.... it gets no funkier than Holy Ghost... but you also see the interplay with the drums to give you that percussive "beat" (with actual drum playing used more than the drum machine)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSNE3NpKu9M


of course they used it later ....without really having the bass guitar sound...but blending with the drums...this time with more of an emphasis on a drum program....with the synth bass...

on She talks to me with her body
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv-tUMgK7Wc


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 01:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
144. "She Talks to Me with Her Body was definitely more"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

in the "bounce" continuum than "Holy Ghost"

but let me not try to restrict this to the bounce thing... Feel free to talk about the evolution of the synth bass in funk in general (though I think that topic would be better served in a fresh, untainted post)

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

FireBrand
Charter member
145739 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 01:15 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
142. "nerds"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
shockzilla
Charter member
37800 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 07:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
148. "lol"
In response to Reply # 142


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

TRENDone
Charter member
15616 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 04:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
147. "this post reminds me of Aaliyah/Tim/"One in A Million""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

15 years later.

____________________________________________________________________

San Diego State's holy trinity of sports:
Kawhi Leonard
Marshall Faulk
Tony Gwynn (RIP)

#Aztec4Life

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mr_graff
Member since Jan 25th 2006
4147 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 09:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
149. "claiming Vaughn Mason's shit is in any way better than Roger? FOH!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Sun Aug-28-11 11:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
150. "my preference, my opinion."
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

your mileage may vary, though.

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Strangeways
Member since Jul 10th 2007
1988 posts
Wed Aug-31-11 11:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
152. "RE: Why is Roger often given credit for changing the sound of Funk"
In response to Reply # 0


          

its like Mr.Dale Degroate said on Zapp unsung.....Roger didnt invent the talkbox but he was the first to make the talkbox the lead instrument in a song....

and to me....that is genius.....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby The Lesson topic #2592515 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com