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Subject: "i don't give artists/entertainers points for 'working hard'." Previous topic | Next topic
SoWhat
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Tue Aug-16-11 06:10 PM

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"i don't give artists/entertainers points for 'working hard'."


  

          

and i'm talking about popular music stars here, across all genres.

i assume they all worked hard to get where they are and to maintain their position. so none of them get extra points b/c they (or their advocates) claim they work "oh so hard". what the hell does that even mean? how do they know who's working harder than others? how is that measured?

_should_ i give extra points to artists/entertainers who CLAIM they "work hard", implying they "work harder" than other acts?

fuck you.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
What Can They Get with Your Points?
Aug 16th 2011
1
they'd need enough points to buy up all the high speed cable internet
Aug 16th 2011
2
      So Your Point System is Worthless...
Aug 16th 2011
3
           should i give more points for 'hard work'?
Aug 16th 2011
4
                'Hard Work' is Context Not Content
Aug 16th 2011
6
                I assume that's the theory.
Aug 16th 2011
13
                if you're not buying their product
Aug 16th 2011
8
                     Have YOU spent $ on an act bc they worked hard?
Aug 16th 2011
10
                          what I've spent on or why is irrelevant here
Aug 17th 2011
20
                               how does hearing that an act 'works hard' impact your appreciation?
Aug 17th 2011
23
                                    My appreciation of what?
Aug 17th 2011
26
                                         the music. the act as a whole.
Aug 17th 2011
27
                                              ummm... it depends.
Aug 17th 2011
28
                                                   Co-signage...
Aug 17th 2011
29
Who is considered to be a "hard worker"?
Aug 16th 2011
5
RE: Who is considered to be a "hard worker"?
Aug 16th 2011
7
Ye, Yonce, Gagz, MJ.
Aug 16th 2011
11
      RE: Ye, Yonce, Gagz, MJ.
Aug 16th 2011
14
           music biz is a lot less
Aug 17th 2011
19
           Oh GTFOHWTBS
Aug 17th 2011
21
                RE: Oh GTFOHWTBS
Aug 17th 2011
34
                     Oh STFU
Aug 17th 2011
35
                     RE: Oh STFU
Aug 17th 2011
36
                          Yeah really.
Aug 17th 2011
37
                               RE: Yeah really.
Aug 17th 2011
42
                                    At least you admit this, and that's all I care about.
Aug 18th 2011
44
                                    RE: At least you admit this, and that's all I care about.
Aug 18th 2011
48
                                         ...aaandd also still sucks.
Aug 18th 2011
49
                                              LMAO
Sep 02nd 2011
58
                                    Also... re: 'living his dream'
Aug 18th 2011
45
                                         a lot of ppl think you can only make good music if you love it
Aug 18th 2011
46
                                              I'm just sickened by this whole romantic notion of artistry
Aug 18th 2011
47
                                              RE: I'm just sickened by this whole romantic notion of artistry
Aug 23rd 2011
52
                                              Co-sign.
Aug 18th 2011
50
                     this really is ridiculous.
Aug 23rd 2011
53
is this a spinoff of something else? i missed the convo.
Aug 16th 2011
9
Yes.
Aug 16th 2011
12
I Will Say This, The More They Brag About Working Hard...
Aug 16th 2011
15
it really struck me when Ye said he deserved to win some Grammy
Aug 16th 2011
17
First Of All Never Take Mr.West's Comments Seriously
Aug 17th 2011
18
      dude, i lost about 2 weeks of sleep over that comment.
Aug 17th 2011
24
Amen...
Aug 17th 2011
30
James Brown said he was the hardest working man in showbusiness
Aug 16th 2011
16
Tim Tebow
Aug 17th 2011
22
      his album sucked. n/m.
Aug 17th 2011
25
I don't give them points for ''doing their thing''...
Aug 17th 2011
31
This is especially true for hip hop producers...
Aug 17th 2011
32
amen.
Aug 17th 2011
33
RE: This is especially true for hip hop producers...
Aug 17th 2011
43
Only stupid musicians work hard. Making music is as easy as breathing.
Aug 17th 2011
38
lol
Aug 17th 2011
39
^hates the hardest working man in showbiz
Aug 17th 2011
40
yes. i like a lazy genius more than someone hard working and average.
Aug 17th 2011
41
RE: i don't give artists/entertainers points for 'working hard'.
Aug 19th 2011
51
Agree with this 100%
Aug 23rd 2011
54
i equate this with artists who are prolific
Sep 02nd 2011
55
I actually do give points for working hard...
Sep 02nd 2011
56
agree 100% nm
Sep 02nd 2011
57

Thee Phantom
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Tue Aug-16-11 06:13 PM

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1. "What Can They Get with Your Points?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

How many points does an artist need before you buy their music?

IG: @illharmonic.orchestra
Youtube: www.youtube.com/theephantom

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Aug-16-11 06:14 PM

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2. "they'd need enough points to buy up all the high speed cable internet"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

in the universe to keep me from being able to easily download digital copies of their music.

fuck you.

  

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Thee Phantom
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Tue Aug-16-11 06:15 PM

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3. "So Your Point System is Worthless..."
In response to Reply # 2


          

IG: @illharmonic.orchestra
Youtube: www.youtube.com/theephantom

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Aug-16-11 06:21 PM

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4. "should i give more points for 'hard work'?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

do you think 'hard work' is worth extra credit?

fuck you.

  

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Thee Phantom
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Tue Aug-16-11 06:31 PM

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6. "'Hard Work' is Context Not Content"
In response to Reply # 4


          

The industry of music sells the story of an artist along with their music. If the story does not effect you, there are plenty of people out there who will suck it up.

IG: @illharmonic.orchestra
Youtube: www.youtube.com/theephantom

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Aug-16-11 09:21 PM

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13. "I assume that's the theory."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

It's why publicists et al push the hard worker narrative. Does it work on you? If so, why? If not, why not?

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Tue Aug-16-11 07:24 PM

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8. "if you're not buying their product"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

then neither your "points" nor your "credit" have any value.

So... *shrug*

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SoWhat
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Tue Aug-16-11 09:16 PM

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10. "Have YOU spent $ on an act bc they worked hard?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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20. "what I've spent on or why is irrelevant here"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I'm just saying that if you don't buy from ANY artist--whether they work hard or not--then what is the value of your "points"?

Just download the shit you like and don't download the shit you don't.

*shrug*

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SoWhat
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Wed Aug-17-11 07:58 AM

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23. "how does hearing that an act 'works hard' impact your appreciation?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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26. "My appreciation of what?"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Of their music or their work ethic?

Because it is possible to appreciate one without the other.

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SoWhat
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Wed Aug-17-11 08:14 AM

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27. "the music. the act as a whole."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

i figure the acts and/or their various reps and advocates tell us these stories b/c they think it'll enhance our appreciation of the act somehow.

does it work on you @ all? i've said it doesn't work on me.

fuck you.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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28. "ummm... it depends."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

Like, I've probably got to like the music first to begin with. That is, if we're talking about me potentially supporting them with my dollars.

When I think about it, though, I *do* really appreciate Beyonce's work ethic and respect her as a performer while having no use whatsoever for her music. Ditto The Boss.

So I guess... Yeah.

But it's something I probably need to assess for myself too. I don't need (or like) to be TOLD about how hard they work, but I like when you can actually SEE how hard they work. I respect it.

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Remedial
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29. "Co-signage..."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>I don't need (or like) to be TOLD about how hard they work, but
>I like when you can actually SEE how hard they work. I respect
>it.

Troof.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

  

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simpsycho
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Tue Aug-16-11 06:31 PM

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5. "Who is considered to be a "hard worker"?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Original Juice
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Tue Aug-16-11 07:16 PM

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7. "RE: Who is considered to be a "hard worker"?"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Beyonce
2Pac
Lil Wayne

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Aug-16-11 09:18 PM

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11. "Ye, Yonce, Gagz, MJ."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

4 examples of acts who've claimed (or whose advocates have claimed) they deserve ___ bc they work so hard, implying they work harder than other acts.

fuck you.

  

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StakksAbbot
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Tue Aug-16-11 09:34 PM

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14. "RE: Ye, Yonce, Gagz, MJ."
In response to Reply # 11


          

don't all musicians work on their craft, though?

and their craft is their love, correct?

so in theory, working hard is, hardly working, no?

i work hard at a job i HATE, go to classes that i HATE, and still find time to work on my craft...not saying i work harder than anyone, but when you've reached the status of the listed above, it becomes more of slap to say their life is hard, they work harder, etc...

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musaee
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19. "music biz is a lot less"
In response to Reply # 14


          

glamorous than it looks...

the successful are EXTREMElY had working... you sleeping

www.musa.bandcamp.com

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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21. "Oh GTFOHWTBS"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>don't all musicians work on their craft, though?
>
>and their craft is their love, correct?
>
>so in theory, working hard is, hardly working, no?
>
>i work hard at a job i HATE, go to classes that i HATE, and
>still find time to work on my craft...not saying i work harder
>than anyone, but when you've reached the status of the listed
>above, it becomes more of slap to say their life is hard, they
>work harder, etc...

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StakksAbbot
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Wed Aug-17-11 03:09 PM

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34. "RE: Oh GTFOHWTBS"
In response to Reply # 21


          

no doubt the glamour and the glitz is not all its cracked up to be, and it has a definite darkside, but IT IS WHAT THEY CHOSE TO DO...

sooooo many people work exponentially harder in lower paying/respected jobs, so no, i don't think they work all that hard...they are doing something they love, or at one point did, or recieving something they love out of it (money, fame, expression, etc) so what is work about it...

the time they devote is not in question, i will never debate that the greats put a crazy amount of time in, but to call that work is a slap in the face for those of us who do work...

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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35. "Oh STFU"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

>no doubt the glamour and the glitz is not all its cracked up
>to be, and it has a definite darkside, but IT IS WHAT THEY
>CHOSE TO DO...
>
>sooooo many people work exponentially harder in lower
>paying/respected jobs, so no, i don't think they work all that
>hard...they are doing something they love, or at one point
>did, or recieving something they love out of it (money, fame,
>expression, etc) so what is work about it...
>
>the time they devote is not in question, i will never debate
>that the greats put a crazy amount of time in, but to call
>that work is a slap in the face for those of us who do
>work...

You sound dumb as shit right now.

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StakksAbbot
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36. "RE: Oh STFU"
In response to Reply # 35


          

really...

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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37. "Yeah really."
In response to Reply # 36
Wed Aug-17-11 04:19 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

>no doubt the glamour and the glitz is not all its cracked up
>to be, and it has a definite darkside, but IT IS WHAT THEY
>CHOSE TO DO...

And you didn't choose YOUR shitty job?

You just sound jealous, really.

>sooooo many people work exponentially harder in lower
>paying/respected jobs, so no, i don't think they work all that
>hard...

By that logic, because a pharmacist is paid more and respected more than a janitor, that means what the pharmacist does isn't really work.

>they are doing something they love, or at one point
>did, or recieving something they love out of it (money, fame,
>expression, etc) so what is work about it...

And you're not getting money from YOUR shitty job, jealous ass?

>the time they devote is not in question, i will never debate
>that the greats put a crazy amount of time in, but to call
>that work is a slap in the face for those of us who do
>work...

uh huh.... James Brown being on the road 300+ nights a year... away from his home and family... out on the rough road and sleeping in strange beds every night... screaming his throat raw and dancing his ass off for 3 hours straight whether or not his knees or back hurt... singing "I Feel Good" even if he feels like shit... putting on a show to entertain people and make them happy even if he's depressed on that particular night... doing that shit year after year... worrying about how he has to do that and pay and maintain a whole organization...

...none of that is work, just because he happens not to be earning minimum wage doing it.

FOH you jealous, small-minded peon.

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StakksAbbot
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Wed Aug-17-11 10:42 PM

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42. "RE: Yeah really."
In response to Reply # 37


          

no but he is living his dream...james brown put in a bunch of time to his craft and reaped many a benefit from it, fame and earned money, whether or not he obtained it all is another story...he had/has the adoration of generations of people who know not one thing about him other than that he is a musician, and they love him for it...he didn't do half bad...

i don't know a pharmacist that tries to up their cred by implying they are the "hardest working people in medicine"...it just doesn't work that way, because a pharmacist chose their profession, and they reap the benefits of it...do they get points for the years of school they went, or the hours they put in, from some sure, but most logical people see through that...

and YES i AM JEALOUS...fuck i'd love to rock the stage, be famous, and make money just for that...i'd love to have the time to focus on doing just that and be rewarded for it...no one seems to be honest about this shit...

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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44. "At least you admit this, and that's all I care about."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

>and YES i AM JEALOUS...fuck i'd love to rock the stage, be
>famous, and make money just for that...i'd love to have the
>time to focus on doing just that and be rewarded for it...no
>one seems to be honest about this shit...

I'd add "bitter" to jealous, though.

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StakksAbbot
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Thu Aug-18-11 02:07 PM

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48. "RE: At least you admit this, and that's all I care about."
In response to Reply # 44


          

okay, aaandd my arguement still stands...

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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49. "...aaandd also still sucks."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

>okay, aaandd my arguement still stands...

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Shaun Tha Don
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Fri Sep-02-11 04:44 PM

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58. "LMAO"
In response to Reply # 49


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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45. "Also... re: 'living his dream'"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

How do you know James Brown was "living his dream"? Do you know what his dreams were?

He came up as a young, ex-con at a time when singing and dancing were some of the only options for an uneducated Black man in the South to make some decent money.

He got into it to MAKE A LIVING. Not "live his dreams."

The problem is that our current culture is so obsessed with celebrity that we seem to believe that being famous is an end in of itself, that people knowing your name is a cure for all ills.

It makes me kinda sick.

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GumDrops
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Thu Aug-18-11 09:44 AM

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46. "a lot of ppl think you can only make good music if you love it"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

if youre a kind of music nerd/big music fan (or that if you dont totally love it, you somehow dont deserve to make it/be good at it/do well with it* - i used to think this myself)

which of course isnt really true

a lot of 'legendary' artists werent actually all that romantic about music, never mind the music they made themselves

i think this might actually be the best attitude to have

*like that attitude that 'ppl now having to make music for free/very cheap will weed out the pretenders from the real/those that deserve it' as if only those who love music have made great music)

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Thu Aug-18-11 09:48 AM

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47. "I'm just sickened by this whole romantic notion of artistry"
In response to Reply # 46
Thu Aug-18-11 09:50 AM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

That "expression" is its own reward.

Or artists using their work as "therapy."

Or "living their dreams."

It just makes being an artist sound like a puerile endeavor for socially maladjusted retards.

I don't think any PROFESSIONAL musician thinks in these terms, for the most part.

They might want their fans to *think* that they do. But there's no way you can last in the business with that dilettante mindset/

(I remember folks got mad about my "Black music infected by artsy-fartsiness" tirades, but the I was making was that Black music was at its best when its practitioners treated it first and foremost as a JOB and not all this other fruity bullshit)

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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GumDrops
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52. "RE: I'm just sickened by this whole romantic notion of artistry"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

>That "expression" is its own reward.
>
>Or "living their dreams."
>
you can hear this in a lot of rap. not just in the content - which isnt shy about admitting this is the way for them to make some money or something of themselves which i dont necessarily hav a problem with, except when it seems like this is ALL they have to talk about. the ambition to have ambition and that that is enough in itself. obv hip hop has always been about promoting yourself and talking about yourself if nothing else but the language used now is really 'bald' and has gotten pretty dull.


>I don't think any PROFESSIONAL musician thinks in these terms,
>for the most part.
>
>(I remember folks got mad about my "Black music infected by
>artsy-fartsiness" tirades, but the I was making was that Black
>music was at its best when its practitioners treated it first
>and foremost as a JOB and not all this other fruity bullshit)

the idea of a musician/artist being a professional - even in this corporate music world - or music being just a job isnt really what we want though is it? lol. i thought thats what people got angry about w/r/t jay-z and the 'im not a rapper, im a businessman' guys? professionalism seems to indicate a kind of journeyman/workmanlike approach to music, one without passion or artistic motivation. even when it comes to session men, im not sure thats a good thing! if you mean professional in the sense that they dont think merely spilling their (shallow) hearts out in the dreariest/unfiltered/uninterestingly naked way possible is always the preferable route, that they spare a thought for people who like to hear an artist not just thinking about their shallow selves, then i agree. but maybe its not the problem that theyre spiling their hearts out, its that their hearts are so pitifully solipsistic and banal.

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Thu Aug-18-11 03:53 PM

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50. "Co-sign. "
In response to Reply # 46


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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woe.is.me.
Member since Aug 06th 2007
13957 posts
Tue Aug-23-11 12:39 PM

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53. "this really is ridiculous."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

  

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MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Tue Aug-16-11 08:14 PM

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9. "is this a spinoff of something else? i missed the convo."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Aug-16-11 09:19 PM

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12. "Yes."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

fuck you.

  

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Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
13770 posts
Tue Aug-16-11 10:01 PM

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15. "I Will Say This, The More They Brag About Working Hard..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...the more I don't believe they're actually working hard but just sliding by on saying they were.

There's a difference between making good music & saying that everything you do is good, there is a small number of artists that I will probably give credit to the majority of what they make is dope but we all know no artist has made 100% good to great music.

I'm just tired of every rapper saying they're always hustling, hustle hard, & whatnot, please give it a rest, hustle up some lyrics worth listening to and hustle up a producer who makes beats to fit your vocals, nuff said.


https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Aug-16-11 10:20 PM

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17. "it really struck me when Ye said he deserved to win some Grammy"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

b/c he'd worked so much harder than his fellow nominees. i'd have been offended were i one of them.

fuck you.

  

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Dj Joey Joe
Member since Sep 01st 2007
13770 posts
Wed Aug-17-11 02:15 AM

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18. "First Of All Never Take Mr.West's Comments Seriously"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

Unless he's paying your bills or giving you a salary, anything he says is just what it is...simple comments .


https://tinyurl.com/y4ba6hog

---------
"We in here talking about later career Prince records
& your fool ass is cruising around in a time machine
trying to collect props for a couple of sociopathic degenerates" - s.blak

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Aug-17-11 08:00 AM

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24. "dude, i lost about 2 weeks of sleep over that comment."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

i'm just now getting over what he said about Amber Rose and Wiz Khalifa. my therapist works wonders!

fuck you.

  

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Remedial
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Wed Aug-17-11 12:09 PM

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30. "Amen..."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          


>I'm just tired of every rapper saying they're always hustling,
>hustle hard, & whatnot, please give it a rest, hustle up some
>lyrics worth listening to and hustle up a producer who makes
>beats to fit your vocals, nuff said.

Ace Hood made an entire song about this and I'm sure it didn't help his numbers.

Like you said, how about stop worrying about hustling hard and worry about penning some memorable lyrics, work on your delivery and exercise your ear so it can pick better beats.

If there's one thing I've learned in life, work smart, not hard.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Tue Aug-16-11 10:05 PM

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16. "James Brown said he was the hardest working man in showbusiness"
In response to Reply # 0


          

and after he performed his perm had blown out so yeah Hard work was shown through the scalp.

oh i applaud artists who grind, because there are so many talented people and if you catch anyone not performing up to task it is a slap to your wallet and mind.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79616 posts
Wed Aug-17-11 07:39 AM

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22. "Tim Tebow "
In response to Reply # 16


          

is the definition of a hard worker...

  

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MISTA MONOTONE
Member since Jan 30th 2004
58563 posts
Wed Aug-17-11 08:11 AM

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25. "his album sucked. n/m."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

------------------------------------------
latest mixtape:
https://www.mixcloud.com/mistamonotone/music-to-smack-motherfckers-to/

mistamonotone - taboo
http://mistamonotone.bandcamp.com/album/taboo

@mistamonotone
IG: mistamonotone

  

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Jakob Hellberg
Member since Apr 18th 2005
9766 posts
Wed Aug-17-11 12:24 PM

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31. "I don't give them points for ''doing their thing''..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I don't know how it is elsewhere but in sweden, if you criticize some artist for something, chances are fairly big that some asshole will say "Come on man, that's his thing. He's just doing his thing. Don't hate on dude for doing his thing" etc. I'm allergic to that shit-does it even mean anything?

  

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Remedial
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Wed Aug-17-11 12:27 PM

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32. "This is especially true for hip hop producers..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

One very prescient memory for me was an article I read on Aqua and Joe 3H around the time they were getting pub for working with Jay.

They were going on and on about how their beats are better because they grind harder than the next man. How, when everybody's asleep, they sleep beatmaking and shit...

Needless to say, that EXTREME grind did nothing for their longevity because, as a production crew, they are no where to be found. I know that Joe 3H is on the industry side these days (mainly because his pops was already an industry big wig), but I'm sure Aqua is somewhere just reminiscing about the good ole days.

And that leads me to my point: Stop talking and just let your artistry prove it's worth. It don't matter if you tell me that you grind constantly, barely sleep, don't even find time to masturbate, etc..., if your music sucks. Because, then it was all for naught. It's like a cat getting a steal on the courts and beating out everybody only to lay it up in the opposing team's basket. You worked hard for nothing.

Now, this mentality is ESPECIALLY prevalent on production forums. There's a contingency of cats who believe that, for every new track you make, you should search through 20 albums for a new drum break. Vinyl only. Don't dare you come in there talking about using breakbeat comps. Only their heroes get a pass for doing that, because, they've already put in hard work before to get to their current status and can now take it easy. Even worse are the cats who like to swear up and down about what techniques or equipment another cat uses like they were in the studio with the mofo.

Then, you hear their music and it either sounds like a carbon copy of whomever (usually either Madlib, Pete Rock, Primo, El-P or REALLY underground cats like Jel) they idolize or it's some real left field, under underground shit that only they momma and boys could love.

Although, I will say, they are just as bad as the upstarts who take every shortcut in the book hoping to become a superproducer overnight, coming off sounding like a clone of whomever the latest producer of the moment is. Most recently, Lex Luger.

Then, there's the cats in the electronic music realm who think that using synth presets is the devil. All the while, the cats they're trying to emulate either: A. Pay some cat to make patches for them or B. Buy up all the newest gear and soft synths so they can get to the presets first.

At the end of the day, I think people get misguided from the true goal, which is to make good music. You can burden yourself with all these constraints and petty requirements, making things harder on yourself without actually gaining any improvement on your craft.

Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.

  

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SoWhat
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Wed Aug-17-11 12:49 PM

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33. "amen."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

fuck you.

  

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StakksAbbot
Member since Oct 02nd 2009
504 posts
Wed Aug-17-11 10:46 PM

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43. "RE: This is especially true for hip hop producers..."
In response to Reply # 32


          

yes, basically my point

***************************************

Check Out MY Music!!!

soundcloud.com/stakksabbot

Let Me Know What You Think!!!

***************************************

  

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Yadgyu
Member since May 31st 2006
8856 posts
Wed Aug-17-11 05:50 PM

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38. "Only stupid musicians work hard. Making music is as easy as breathing."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Musicians ain't special.

----
----
----
----
----

GET ON MY LEVEL!

  

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Peabody
Member since Jan 18th 2011
10296 posts
Wed Aug-17-11 05:57 PM

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39. "lol"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

nm

  

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k_orr
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Wed Aug-17-11 05:58 PM

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40. "^hates the hardest working man in showbiz"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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GumDrops
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Wed Aug-17-11 06:10 PM

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41. "yes. i like a lazy genius more than someone hard working and average."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Aug-17-11 06:13 PM by GumDrops

  

          

(well kind of, im not saying ppl should all be like madlib, MJ/prince were obv hardworkers too, but they didnt seem to think talking about how hard they worked was of interest to anyone - i think 'but i worked hard at this!' is used as a defence when accused of turning in poor music).

people seem to think the music business is like other corporate business where just cos they work hard everyone else should applaud them for it. but i dont care how many hours you put in, i just care about what it sounds/looks like.

i think the 'hard work' thing is related to rappers obsessively talking about 'staying on their grind'. but they have it confused. they think this means they should have a new mixtape out every 5 minutes and that we should reward them for being prolific (or merely visible), regardless of what those mixtapes sound like.

actually i think its too late - most people think like this too. 'oh but he has 3403943049 albums done'. i dont get it though. and i really cant keep up either. (maybe im jealous of the kids who seemingly have time to listen to everything).

  

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helena22
Member since Jul 31st 2010
92 posts
Fri Aug-19-11 11:08 PM

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51. "RE: i don't give artists/entertainers points for 'working hard'."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I agree with the T/S.

real talent+hard work+artistic achievement=full respect

For example, I don't get it, when some Beyonce fans say "OK, you don't like her music but you know she works so hard."
As her hubby says, "She's like a machine">.<
Yeah I already know that.

ˇ°If you enter this world knowing you are loved and you leave this world knowing the same,
then everything that happens in between can be dealt with.ˇ±-Michael Jackson

  

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blinded by the lights
Member since Aug 31st 2008
625 posts
Tue Aug-23-11 03:12 PM

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54. "Agree with this 100%"
In response to Reply # 0


          

People don't differentiate between an artist who puts out ten songs a day on the internet and an artist who makes ten songs a day, but only chooses to release one 15 song LP a year. Especially someone like lil wayne. So what that he makes shitty freestyles that probably take him an hour to put together an entire mixtape, and he's doing so while high as shit just messing around. And I like Lil Wayne. But give me quality or give me nothing.

On the other hand, I do give credit to someone or a group like the Roots that (used to) tour so relentlessly.

"Yes I see all the nummmberrs... I still root for the dreeeamerrs... I thank God for the dreeeamerrs..." - Mos

  

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GumDrops
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Fri Sep-02-11 07:00 AM

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55. "i equate this with artists who are prolific"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

just cos you are permanently producing something, just cos you are in perpetual production, doesnt mean you are learning anything, or creating anything good, it just means you are working. musicians talk like they are factory owners. i still dont know why people are impressed merely by someone being prolific. just cos you released a lot of music, doesnt mean you didnt release a lot of average music.

  

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Ketchums
Member since Jan 30th 2005
3417 posts
Fri Sep-02-11 08:09 AM

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56. "I actually do give points for working hard..."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Sep-02-11 08:14 AM by Ketchums

  

          

If I actually have evidence of them working hard. As an example, I'll bring up Oddisee and Black Milk. I think they work hard because of the amount of music they release at any given time - a couple years ago, these dudes were dropping several full albums within a year's time - and the high quality that comes with those. I think hard work can also be determined by the amount of detail found in the music, whether it's nuances in production or detail in lyrics. Big Sean comes across as a hard worker to me too - a couple years ago, not only was this dude dropping his mixtapes tough, but this dude was touring like crazy, and he was dropping guest verses on *everybody's* shit. Just seemed like he was never content. Same with Curren$y, dude drops a prolific amount of material that, IMO, stays at a certain level of quality.

This isn't to say that being prolific or having intricacy ultimately defines working hard, because I already know there are holes in that reasoning if those are rigid rules. Just saying that these are things that can sometimes signify the hard work to me.

Hard work does get points though, because super formulaic music often seems like it wasn't worked hard on. Again, not a catch-all for anything that's formulaic, because some people are formulaic and wack no matter how hard they work, but it's an occasional barometer. But if I can't see the effort at all, I'm less likely to support - because if you don't take your own work seriously, why should I as a consumer?

On the other hand, when I actually do believe that an artist worked hard, I'm likely to identify with that concept of dedication, and I give my support as much as I can - be it through buying the album, ticket sales, spreading the word, etc.

----

https://weketchum.contently.com/

  

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PungeePyPy
Member since Jul 09th 2006
9386 posts
Fri Sep-02-11 11:39 AM

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57. "agree 100% nm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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