Sure, you've got someone like Snoop able to kick it with Rachel Ray and Sesame Street.

Sure, the Beasties can make one phonecall and literally have every member of comedic Hollywood make a cameo in a video.

Sure, Nas's lyrics still get thrown into hip-hop oriented thesis's almost two decades later.

But this isn't about that.

We all know that Wu-Tang set the lane for a lot of trends in hip-hop (pushing slanguage to the extreme, their record model, experimentations in productions, flow and hooks, etc that’s been bullshitted to death). But one thing I think that’s been slept on at least when we talk is the corner they've made for themselves in pop culture, and who they share it with.

Be hip-hop has never, and probably will never, have an enduring act like Wu-Tang in the cultural landscape. Like other mythical groups in the rock landscapes: from your Pixies to your Stoogies, there is a certain niche of 'cult' that surrounds them that is never-ending..they've never lost their cool (or if they did it's been erased by the sands of time). Because of this each new generation re-discovers the band and makes it their own. The modern Hip-hop's audience is too fickle and niche to really focus on anything in the past even for the megastars a few years ago. However, Wu's splash was so big that they pretty much transcended this group: thirty years from now along with the faded Led Zep t-shirts in your Target you are going to see the Wu-tang symbol, and it won't be worn by narrow minded hip-hop kids.

While you can argue that wu-tang had A LOT of things going for it to hit this lottery, imho the reason why there won't be another Wu-Tang is simply because of the fact that hip-hop stopped evolving right around the time they arrived. From that point on it was simply either mining the past or other genres (primarily r&B). Similar to Nirvana the paradigm shifted, and also similar to Nirvana, it's the last time a sharp turn like that is going to happen.

Inspired by the Wugazi post and an article I read on the RZA possibly playing a Kung Fu master in the GI Joe Sequel.

My adidas was a huge influence on everybody. Those cats even got their own signature shoe in the mid 80s when only athletes were getting shoe deals. DMC's fedora, their whole style was felt well outside of the hip hop community.

You're such pests...now, what is it you want? In your depths of your ignorance, what is it you want? Well, whatever it is you want, I can't deliver because I just don't see it. - Orson Welles


Never Tired, Always Sleepy

Id argue though that RUN DMC was more of a mainstream breakthrough then a 'cult' one...it's why I don't factor in Jay-Z. Run DMC simply wasn't as cool as their contempories...there was no sense of danger like you would have with the Beasties, Slick Rick, etc. You still hear artists name check Wu as an influence, after Rakim arrived fans viewed RUN DMC through a different and lesser light id argue.

>My adidas was a huge influence on everybody. Those cats even
>got their own signature shoe in the mid 80s when only athletes
>were getting shoe deals. DMC's fedora, their whole style was
>felt well outside of the hip hop community.

Jam Master Jay is somewhere in heaven laughing his ass off....

GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....

I submit:

1. Will Smith

>I submit:
>
>1. Will Smith

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

earlier you said "Be hip-hop has never, and probably will never, have an enduring act like Wu-Tang in the cultural landscape."

the whole "do *they* know he rapped?" is a different beast entirely

They fell off & nobody cares. But is anyone really checking for new Wu material either?

I'm sure we'll still see kids in PE shirts in the future. (Logo & design play a big part & PE had that.)

Although it does feel like their contributions are slowly being erased from history.

__________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH2VVITHlwU

http://www.allhiphop.com/photos/flicks/images/22055717/323x425.aspx


http://www.allhiphop.com/photos/flicks/images/22056623/425x319.aspx


http://www.allhiphop.com/photos/flicks/images/22056682/425x269.aspx

You slap the nigga(DRAKE) five n he gon moisturize ya palms nahmean!-BIG GHOST NAHMEAN!

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

>

do you RIDE ON YO ENEMIEZ? thank. Pac.

ACT like enwurds was wearing versace like that B.P.

NOPE.


do or die

but they are all ugly designs

and pac doesnt have a good logo

which doesnt help

Prince's logo is ONLY famous because he started going by that symbol. But Wu was a GROUP....so they needed a logo much more!

------------------------------

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Snoop had bonified pop hits. Pac had almost(California Love is the exception, and id argue that had more to do with the House that Dre built and his popularity on MTV as opposed to Pac's).

If you see a kid rocking a Pac t-shirt, he's gonna have to baggie jeans (or tight saggy jeans if he's under 24) to match.

...a child is born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind, god is smilin' on you and frownin' too, because only god knows what you gonna do...©melle mel

  

Pac is probably the most influential person in american pop culture over the last 25-30 yrs outside of MAYBE kurt cobain


do or die

Up until recently he was the biggest selling Hip Hop artist of all time. There are Tupac murals in other countries. Countless bootlegs, documentaries and books are out there on the man and they've been working on a major motion picture to tell his story. He is the Hendrix, Morrison, Marley & Cobain of Hip Hop in that he died young and never got old or wack.

If anything, in europe at least, being a 2Pac fan means that Hip-Hop is your music of choice and that you dress (and sometimes act) the part. This is of course also partly a reason why a lot of more elitist/underground Hip-Hop fans dislike 2Pac: they view him as Hip-Hop for noobs/rookies that aren't as "down" as them.

Anyway, I understand what the original poster is aiming for. I mean, Wu-tang had/have fans amongst people who primarly dug/dig electronica, indie, metal, punk etc. (NOT pop though which is why he's a bit off IMO)-2Pac never achieved that particular cred.

However, PE also had this as has previously been mentioned and De La Soul had it for a VERY short while in '89...

>If anything, in europe at least, being a 2Pac fan means that
>Hip-Hop is your music of choice and that you dress (and
>sometimes act) the part. This is of course also partly a
>reason why a lot of more elitist/underground Hip-Hop fans
>dislike 2Pac: they view him as Hip-Hop for noobs/rookies that
>aren't as "down" as them.

The fact that some elitist/underground Hip Hop fans don't like him only proves the point...you can't transcend your said genre without some kind of backlash from the community that you came from. Miles, Marley, Cobain all had this.
>
>Anyway, I understand what the original poster is aiming for. I
>mean, Wu-tang had/have fans amongst people who primarly
>dug/dig electronica, indie, metal, punk etc. (NOT pop though
>which is why he's a bit off IMO)-2Pac never achieved that
>particular cred.

So you think you sell 75 million records to only Hip Hop fans? When you do those kind of numbers you have fans from all types of genres and from all different backgrounds.
>
>However, PE also had this as has previously been mentioned and
>De La Soul had it for a VERY short while in '89...

PE is barely on anyone's radar anymore. You certainly aren't going to have anyone under 30 bumping a PE album.

>He is the Hendrix, Morrison, Marley & Cobain
>of Hip Hop in that he died young and never got old or wack.

Like, i know my point is vague, but the point is that you've got rock bands doing Wu-Tang covers(unironically), you've got GZA and RZA popping up in weird indie flicks...Tupac's heavy focus on thugism would always be in the way. He can never transend hip-hop because he would never let go of those tropes (and arguably at times became a parody of them).

Ghostface can do a song like 'Shakey Dog' and do a song about swimming with mermaids the same album. Tupac, unfortunately, never got a chance to do the same exact thing.

>>He is the Hendrix, Morrison, Marley & Cobain
>>of Hip Hop in that he died young and never got old or wack.

People love rebels/thugs so that certainly didn't hold Pac back in any way shape or form.
>
>Like, i know my point is vague, but the point is that you've
>got rock bands doing Wu-Tang covers(unironically), you've got
>GZA and RZA popping up in weird indie flicks...Tupac's heavy
>focus on thugism would always be in the way. He can never
>transend hip-hop because he would never let go of those tropes
>(and arguably at times became a parody of them).

Umm Pac starred in major motion pictures opposite people like Mickey Rourke and Janet Jackson. How can you compare GZA & RZA making a cameo in a film that very few people saw and many of the ones who did had no idea who they were? And you do realize that Wu Tang is just as "thuggish" as Tupac ever was. If anyone was a parody it would be ODB on MTV using a food stamp card.
>
>Ghostface can do a song like 'Shakey Dog' and do a song about
>swimming with mermaids the same album. Tupac, unfortunately,
>never got a chance to do the same exact thing.

What does this have to do with transcending Hip Hop? You must be using a different definition of transcend. Ghostface can barely sell 300k records so how could he possibly transcend Hip Hop? You seem to think that because some hipsters think it's cool to like Wu Tang that means that they are bigger than they actually are. It's not "cool" to be a hipster and admit to liking Pac...he's too mainstream. The same way white kids into Reggae will talk about there love for Lee Scratch Perry over Marley. It's cooler to like the artist who is perceived to be more underground.

*********************
www.dumhi.com

i would actually agree with that

more iconic packaging/photos/images/logos is the way to go

but i dont see much of that anymore

PE def did have that tho - eg - ed furlong wearing a PE t shirt in terminator 2

i think they could still get it back if they get some good PR/marketing/merchandising behind them (and chuck d would prob have to talk less on the internet to get some mystique about them again)

wayne will be there, YMCMB and all.

-------------------
village.fm/okayplayer | @delajoo
"Whether you're a rock star or a garbage man, if you think about yourself all the time, you won't be very good at what you do." - Frusciante

>While you can argue that wu-tang had A LOT of things going for it to hit this lottery, imho >the reason why there won't be another Wu-Tang is simply because of the fact that hip-hop >stopped evolving right around the time they arrived. From that point on it was simply either >mining the past or other genres (primarily r&B). Similar to Nirvana the paradigm shifted, and >also similar to Nirvana, it's the last time a sharp turn like that is going to happen.

It's not hip hop has stopped evolving it's just that the author has just gotten older. It's called nostalgia goggles and the author has them on way too tight.

(which got ignored anyway,lol)

But mainstream hip-hop tho...I think we kind of passed it's 'punk' phase. It's not 90's nostalgia, the fact is as dope as a Rawse or a Wayne is it's not hard to find direct comparisons to artists ten years ago as opposed to opening a whole new lane. It's not a knock against the genre, rock hasn't really evolved in thirty years *shrug*

---
www.ikirejones.com
FW16: After Migration.

____________________

be Good.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2n8vg29.png
(by a guy named Wes Whaley http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturepicturegalleries/8779317/Light-paintings-by-Wes-Whaley.html )

nm

-

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

Although I do think that Easy dying+Dre+Ice Cube having such gargantuan solo careers after the fact kind of works against them since it might eclipse their NWA work

OutKast and LL come to mind.
Then Sir-Mix-A-Lot. Or rather, Baby Got Back.
NERD, or just Pharrell, if you want.
Jay-who? I'll even say that this and the previous one are iffy if you want.
Sean Combs though? Didn't he pretty much play himself in a movie a little bit ago? And people thought that caricature was funny.
Nelly had a song, but I won't acknowledge it.

You know what, that's all. Not even Eminem. That's just it. Nothing else.

But wait-- as great as the Wu is, they seem to be one of the more marginal sets. 'Cause you have to be a fuckin' fan to know who U-God and Masta Killa are.

The rest either had too long a career slide (LL/Puffy), one hit wonders (Sir Mix) or while known to us are a bit too much under the radar (Pharrell will have a discography any musician would kill for when he's done, but I don't think he's that popular outside of music circles)

>OutKast and LL come to mind.
>Then Sir-Mix-A-Lot. Or rather, Baby Got Back.
>NERD, or just Pharrell, if you want.
>Jay-who? I'll even say that this and the previous one are iffy
>if you want.
>Sean Combs though? Didn't he pretty much play himself in a
>movie a little bit ago? And people thought that caricature was
>funny.
>Nelly had a song, but I won't acknowledge it.
>
>You know what, that's all. Not even Eminem. That's just it.
>Nothing else.
>
>But wait-- as great as the Wu is, they seem to be one of the
>more marginal sets. 'Cause you have to be a fuckin' fan to
>know who U-God and Masta Killa are.

www.royallegacy.org
http://therapfest.com/up-next-artists/

nm

*casts back to GD spell*

________
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ionno, wrong with your titling.

Haha.

~~~

---
Love,
Nopayne

I'm not sure if I buy that.

The Beasties perhaps?

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

Go Smack yourself and then apologize to your hand for looking stupid - Case_One

http://i54.tinypic.com/nxros2.jpg

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

People always mentioning OutKast (or Andre) in these GOAT type of discussions and it just isn't true.

but they are one of the most popular and important ones ever.

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

i mean the marriage of: great MC'ing (on just about any and everything and still having it sound cool), novel hip-hop sounds and fusions, their ability to constantly switch their sound and still stay ahead of the curve (by decades, apparently), the amount of wildly popular, left-of-center/daring singles, the musicality and structure of their albums.. i mean, they made some shit that has and will continue to last for years and years.. play that for future generations and they're gonna dig it, i'm sure of it (even my folks dig a few kast songs).. in this era, how often is it that any artist enjoys huge critical and commercial success.. and at the end of the day, regardless of why a lot of ppl dug them, the *MC'ing* was always superior.. i think for a lot of ppl not into hip hop, they bridged a lot of gaps.. even though they were mistaken if they didn't see it before, i don't think *anyone* could get away w/ saying hip hop wasn't "music" after listening to an outkast album.. that's some serious progress.. i think jay-z, eminem and outkast are really what forced hip hop into every facet of pop culture (there are definitely others, but those are the big 3, imo).. and i think outkast is the most exceptional out of those acts

i'm interested to hear your criticisms of outkast.. not that i'm saying you're wrong, i just don't hear that opinion very often..

We are talking about a mark on popular culture.

I just don't think they are that "popular". They had "Ms. Jackson" and "Hey Ya" which no one really bumps anymore.

OutKast is not on the level of a Wu-Tang or 2pac or other act mentioned.

If you ask me, they already fell off. See: 2006's Idlewild

No one is following in Big Boi's footsteps. No legacy.

contribution to hip hop/pop/pop culture and were an almost unrivaled creative entity when they were making music... ppl will always remember outkast and their music will stand the test of time... i don't see why they aren't historically relevant just because they aren't popular right now (isn't that kind fo counterintuitive?)... GOAT or "adding to pop culture" discussions aren't about who's hottest right now.. and i mean, i'm assuming a lot in saying this, but i can imagine that if a proper outkast album came out tomorrow, they'd resume their position..

(for the record, i never considered idelwild to be a *proper* kast album.. being tied stylistically to a period piece doesn't really let them do everything they might have done if they were given free rein to just make an album)

The Beatles make new fans every day. So does Wu Tang. So does Pac.

in pop culture/mainstream... and how many other times have we seen that? Lauryn? anything else?

Go Smack yourself and then apologize to your hand for looking stupid - Case_One

http://i54.tinypic.com/nxros2.jpg

Tupac yes

OutKast no, what are you smoking?

>OutKast no, what are you smoking?

Go Smack yourself and then apologize to your hand for looking stupid - Case_One

http://i54.tinypic.com/nxros2.jpg

nm

stupid logic.

this is about relevance to pop culture, not NY

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

Did you print it yourself because I've never seen one.

OutKast in the top WHATEVER list is some private mind garden shit

lol, peace king.

http://i54.tinypic.com/2j51hj4.jpg

it airs on broadcast TV and basic cable channels. during sporting events, even. prime-fucking-time for beer commercials.

i ain't never seen none of Wu-Tang do that. and if they did, i bet it was a malt liquor commercial. and may have aired on local TV channels. or during syndicated programs on other channels. definitely not during sporting events. or else i'd have seent it by now.

fuck you.

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

but when the thread is about pop culture, you'd better have seen that shirt being worn by some complete stranger at least once, and not as an old souvenir they are still wearing since the Stankonia tour.

that is the point...

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

I hear you.

n/m

_____________________________________________________________
Everyone here hates pop music, but loves Michael Jackson... Okay Player...

nm

~-~-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



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